ShamelessPigMain
ShamelessPigMain
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061004#Comment_2061004
Spirit isn't the best example. Yes, people called her weak, during the PTB and when she came out. But mostly because she had a massive cooldown on her power back then. Many said, if buffed, than Spirit would have the potential to be a high tier killer. And that happened.
Some stuff you can just judge by general game experience. And even if people might not have 100% figuered out Trickster, they can still can make a good judge based on the informations given and his potential. DbD isn't so much complex, that it takes long to understand the potential of perks or killers.
Well I disagree on DBD not being complex. There are just too many factors to draw conclusions via induction, not only in the game itself, but also in the individuals and how they play. I agree, he definitely looks pretty "meh," but we've all been wrong about DBD before, and we may be wrong again. Predictions will remain predictions, until the fog clears and we can get an idea of how mediocre Trickster is.
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@Critical_Fish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061020#Comment_2061020
Why wouldn't you let them heal you first if you were the one hooked???
Also, did you uh... miss the Unbreakable thing? Its a pretty cool perk you should try it. And even if you don't want to, the Killer slugging you and just standing on your heels for 60 seconds IS throwing the game. If they don't do that, you can get picked up no problem. Also, counter statement, Borrowed Time :)
DS is an amazing anti-tunneling perk, what the actual ######### are you saying. 5 seconds is equal to 20 for the Killer, as it's a 4 v 1 game. If you want me to I can do the math for you. Since I assume you don't just stand still infront of the Killer for the entire 5 second stun, it takes about 20 seconds for the Killer to catch up to you if they don't have a long range / mobility option. If they are long range, it will take longer to catch up if you broke LOS, and if they have mobility, it might be a 5-10 second time AFTER the 5 second stun. Even after 10 seconds you should be at a loop to continue wasting the Killer's time.
Also, how the ######### do you tunnel off hook before you get hooked. How the ######### do you get tunneled if the Killer left you alone for 60 seconds after you were unhooked. If you were being chased for the whole duration, the Killer just wasted 3 minutes worth of time and 3 generators should've popped, if not 4 (if your teammates know how to hold m1 on a stationary object).
DS was so obviously meant to be an anti-tunneling perk, how are so many people so ignorant to claim otherwise? Also, it wasn't ever a second chance perk. It was a straight up "you cannot" perk, for a full minute, until these changes.
The rare times I do play survivor, I run either inner strength or second wind. Fight me.
As for unbreakable, that's sacrificing two perk slots for the dilemma where only one of them can actually be used, in the off chance that you get tunneled off of the hook.
And DS is an amazing perk in general, but it's not meant to be an anti-tunnel perk. If you happen to be tunneled, then the 5 second second chance (meaning grasp escape) is great. Good luck dealing with when you inevitably get tunneled even more to the ground after a 5 second stun. And we can do the math for that: Survivors move at a rate of 4 m/s, a 5 second stun means 20 meters, made by default (not including the little stagger you get after stabbing somebody), and a killer runs at 4.6 m/s, 20 meters behind. 20 seconds later, the killer will have made 92 meters, survivor will have made 85 meters.
Pedantry aside, you shouldn't be holding w with a DS, you should be finding a good loop. Even then, loops can only last so long before you get downed and facecamped, and if Solo queue has taught me anything, it's that nobody knows how to deal with a face camp.
Also, how the ######### do you misread "tunneled before you get hooked" as "tunneled off hook before you get hooked?" You can still very well get tunneled without getting hooked; Bubba finds you, Bubba doesn't like you, Bubba chases you for 5 minutes and then finally hooks you. It's quite ingenious.
Have you seen old DS? Back in the old day, it was one free grasp escape at any given time. Only since the last change (meaning 60 seconds after behind hooked) did they even stipulate that you had to be tunneled. Even the devs confirmed it on one of their obscure streams: DS is a second chance, not an anti-tunnel. They're trying to mix and mash it into an anti-tunnel perk that still gives you a second chance (IE, killer grasp escape), but they aren't doing a very good job at it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061069#Comment_2061069
She had a shorter lunge like nurse though.
I thought she still does. I don't remember when they tied lunge range to movement speed but I doubt it was the shattered bloodline update. Either way, she isn't a regular looper; as long as you can get a somewhat precise idea of where the survivor is, you're all set.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061004#Comment_2061004
Please stop bringing up the Spirit thing. It's already been shown that Spirit was buffed more than once after her PTB, both on live release and during her midchapter patch.
We meet again.
The mind game of standing still was one part of her power, that barely even worked in the first place. She still had the ability to become completely invisible while still having decent tracking ability on the survivor, which is what most people complain about.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061004#Comment_2061004
Spirit actually WAS weak when she came out, they had to buff her to make her good, but they did it too much.
That buff was only the removal of the phasing sound emission within the terror radius, the mind game of which only worked like twice anyways. She didn't even have a vaulting animation for one period, so it's a mixed bag.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061035#Comment_2061035
Tapping a generator to stop regression IS contributing to your objective. You are not allowed to be invincible and contribute to your objective anymore. Deal with it.
I said "in all but the most pedantic sense." Contributing less than a percentage point to a generator is not meant to move the game along; it's meant to stop regression (which is a massive joke in its own right but that's a talk for later).
Again, there's no immunity. It's not infinite mettle of man. It's you get smacked, slugged, and eventually (hopefully) healed, and for that entire duration you've been slugged, you have not been doing anything. Deal with it.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061004#Comment_2061004
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061022#Comment_2061022
His very rare and above addons are ALL hot garbage but the explosive knives. That says something.
And spirit's addons atleast has value. even her common addons does something
Trickster? Psh. 100% needs Addons to win a match,
Well that judgment still is early on. That's the OP's entire perk; give it time to play out, then we'll see.
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Well I doubt it needs a "buff," it just needs massive structural changes. Starting with reverting its recent changes and balancing all of those niche situations where it just becomes useless.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060806#Comment_2060806
Maybe, don't do that then. There's no fair world where you should be invincible and still able to do your objective.
Tapping a generator is not "doing your objective," in all but the most pedantic sense. You aren't invincible either; you can still be downed. Idiots who wave DS in my face get smacked and then left to bleed out. Remember that a survivor who's on the ground is a survivor who isn't doing gens.
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@Critical_Fish said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059540#Comment_2059540
Heres your answer.
Don't do that with the gen. Run Unbreakable or get picked up by a teammate (if the Killer stops you from being picked up for 60 seconds THEY'RE throwing the game). If the Killer is on the other side of the map you're not getting tunneled.
Now DS serves its proper purpose, and you complain that it servers its proper purpose.
That fails to address the whole issue of slugging isn't the killer throwing, and doing generators is not an indication of tunneling status. If my savior is injured, I'm sure as hell going to heal them, not wait around for 10 seconds to see if the killer is coming back to hook to tunnel me.
DS' proper purpose is not to be an anti-tunnel perk. It does a god awful job at that, especially with the recent changes. One measly 5 second stun after getting hooked is not going to prevent you from being tunneled, and it doesn't even address tunneling before you get hooked, or after 60 seconds from your last hooking has lapsed. They're trying to force it into being an anti-tunnel perk while keeping vestiges of its old self, but it either needs a complete overhaul to become an anti-tunnel perk, or remain a second chance. If you're going to renovate something, renovate the whole thing.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/238225/everyone-shut-up-about-trickster-being-bad
No.
He is actually a bad killer,
He has More cons than Pros,
Main event shouldn't run out just as soon as you get it,
That's like saying Oni has a limited time to use his power to use his power.
Or Nurse forcing to walk cause she missed the chance to blink,
His point is that it's been less than a day since the killer joined the actual game and it's too early to adequately judge. Otz thought that Spirit would be weak when she came out, and now look at her. She gets more hate than Taylor Swift (which isn't saying much but I just wanted to get that joke off of my chest).
Shake it off, shake it off, I-, I-, I-,
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060782#Comment_2060782
Misread the first bit, thought you said what the hell does gen tapping have to do with it.
A chase usually doesn't extend until the first hit. That extra distance to position is what makes good loopers better than mediocre loopers. If your just of hook you don't have that. So yes, the chases are abnormally short.
If the killer switches targets, great. You heal up and get things done because he's not on your back. I don't get how stealth is this difficult unless your a meg in neon clothing.
If you can tap a gen, then your giving up distance in a chase. You should not be able to force the killer to either lose all the regression he's getting on a gen with 1s of an animation to his 4s, and still say that's not significant. Also, if we implemented a timer (5s on a gen) then people would just go on and off gens, meaning that it would never deactivate and we'd be in the issue we had before. I don't think you can give a reasonable suggestion that will stop that. So this is the better of the options.
Even here, you say "tunneling is going after one survivor over the others" so you can't pretend to ignore you by going after someone else and then go for the person as by your own definition your not being tunneled then.
I don't think you read my post fully. In it I detailed how a freeze to ds timer but lessen the time it takes to die from being slugged by 1 min or something to balance it when being slugged. This would make tunneling with Ds and then slugging that much more punishing. I think that would be ok.
I disagree (as I have to state this again) with the healing yourself column of it, I believe a survivor should be able to heal themselves with it still being up. You seem, with your arguments, to be one of the reasons this perk had to be changed. You cannot sit on a gen with protection. That's stupid. End of. Being able to progress your objective whilst the killer can't theirs is ridiculous. So whilst healing is wrong, gens and totems (getting rid of a devour hope fully stacked with Ds) are both massive for you. So doing them whilst having protection are not ok. " All the killer has to do is get a survivor to an objective" well don't do an objective if he's near, you have control over what you do during the match. He's not forcing you to do a gen whilst he's scouring you like a hawk you can sit by a gen and wait, and if he come up to you start the loop.
All throughout your posts your making it seem as if your entitled to a free shield whilst doing a gen, which would make Ds an anti-momentum perk. As it's ruining the killers momentum (not being able to pick you up and hook you and keep the pressure on) which is what your advocating for. This is on the same level as ruin undying pre nerf. Both anti-momentum perks. Both weren't good for the game. Both nerfed.
If you want old ruin undying back that's fine, but you can't have one without the other bud. Survivors can't have anti momentum perks and then scream for the killers version to be nerfed. That's not how that works.
If you happen to be hooked by a good loop, have dead hard/sprintburst, or the killer isn't camping you, you still have time to identify and make it to good loops. Especially if the killer isn't that great. Even then, it's a catch-22. If you loop for 60 seconds, good for you. If you don't, you get slugged. And on the point of the killer not camping, it's not that hard to pretend going for another survivor, or just getting a hit on another survivor. If you can get a hit on the meghead to make it seem like you're chasing them, all the better.
Generator regression is not meant to be constantly effective, that's a moot point. The idea is that if you're in a loop with a gen, like T/Ls, jungle/pallet gyms, miscellaneous map-specific structures, etc. you can and probably should tap it. Yes, the regression system is pretty useless most of the time and should be looked at (base kit, at least), but that's a moot point.
The key word in pretending to go after other survivors is pretending. Tunneling isn't just when the facecamping Bubba chainsaws after you when you get saved, it's just when the killer prioritizes your downing and removal from the game over others. If that means getting DS out of the way, then that will be in the arsenal. It doesn't even let you get a heal off, either. It's like when your methods seem counterproductive but further your goals in some Machiavellian way.
I don't think anybody wants a reduced slug timer. I don't get any emblem points if a survivor bleeds out, or blood points. And freezing the timer won't do much either; that's just bringing back old DS, and none of us want that.
Don't worry, I got your part about healing, which is why I'm not addressing that. Talking about having to "state this again," I'm not referring to complete immunity from DS by working on a gen. In everything other than a locker, you can slug to counter DS. Same thing applies here. Plus, sitting on a gen does not necessarily mean you are not, and moreover, will not be tunneled. If you get comfy, you can't hear the terror radius, so you begin to work on a gen, only to find out the killer was making their way back to you to tunnel the ever loving feces out of you, you're screwed. Drop the straw man, I don't think that DS should be complete immunity, and never have I suggested such a prospect. All I'm saying is that working on objectives and healing people is not an indicator of if you're being tunneled or not.
I cannot make this more clear. Slug. It's not that hard. I eat like one DS every day because I can press M1 and walk away. A survivor who is on the ground is a survivor who is not doing gens, and simultaneously a survivor in need of healing, while a survivor who is healing is a survivor not doing gens. Plus, anti-momentum perks aren't even a niche. Killers have some hinderance and slowdown perks, but there really is no killer nerfing perks on the survivor side. DS, throughout all of its iterations, has manifested as a second-chance. Surely, the killer loses some traction, but that takes a backseat to the fact that the survivor is free to roam again.
There are so many straw men in your comment I thought I was in goddamn Oklahoma. Never once have I mentioned ruin/undying, never once have I mentioned giving survivors a complete shield. It's basic reading comprehension to understand what I'm trying to say. I really can't tell if you're struggling that hard to understand my points or if you're manipulating my positions out of spite. Let it be clear that what I am saying is that this nerf sucks. Not only does it fail to identify whether or not you are truly being tunneled, it doesn't even mention the timer running out on slugs/chases, or even lockers for that matter. It could have been such an easy fix, too. Have it deactivate after 10 or 20 seconds of doing a generator, and 5 seconds of healing, not applicable while in chase. You can still do all of these actions while in a chase at the press of a button; that doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Have the timer slow down to a snail's pace while in chase or on the ground. Have the timer expire much more quickly while in a locker. Have it proc multiple times with a reduced stun duration to adequately address the issue of tunneling; one measly 5 second stun isn't going to stop people from tunneling. Hell, if I get DS'd by a locker or a forced grab, I tunnel even more, then face camp, hit on hook, the whole bag. And above all, remember that it isn't supposed to even be an anti-tunnel perk. It's just a ludicrously strong second chance perk.
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@landromat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060851#Comment_2060851
man, he's not even Legion
Thank god.
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@TreSen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060827#Comment_2060827
Does he tho?
I'm pretty sure he's just a guy that throws silver star stickers at survivors for doing such good jobs repairing their generators
Well that's pretty much killing, just as how plague is a teenage madonna who got the stomach flu and vomits on people because she didn't like her church, and how Huntress is a baby-minded Russian lady who throws a tantrum like the kid at the mall who didn't get the candy they wanted when you give her a concussion with a pallet.
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I like him. He's obviously not a nurse but he's fun, and that's what matters to me. Plus, I usually get 2 kills without any dirty tricks (pun not intended).
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Well, new DS does address being tunneled off of a hook. As long as you bring unbreakable & soul guard with it to prevent slugging. That's pretty much all it does, though.
Just kidding. DS never addressed tunneling. A 5 second stun is not going to make the killer say "Understandable, have a nice day."
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He's pretty incomparable to huntress, range aside. He's like rapid fire deathslinger except you don't need particularly good aim; his projectiles are much smaller and faster (pretty much hitscans), don't require good aim, and you can miss 30 of them and still get a down. It's more nuance than just "all projectile killers are the same."
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Well he is a person who kills, so I'm very confused as to what you're talking about.
Plus, we had like three weeks of PTB with him. If you bought him only to say "I don't like that" after three weeks of decision making, it's really kind of your own fault.
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@SammiieK1991 said:
So we have the shape, Freddy, bubba, pyramid... but what an earth and who an earth is this guy? Where's he from? I don't see any horror relations to him.
We have a bunch of teens with knives and some fat idiot with a chainsaw who sounds like a pig. It's a slasher game, not horror. Did you even read his backstory?
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@Gaffy said:
If you needed ds to play then you shouldn't of had it in the first place :)
Right, because tunneling isn't viable at all in this game.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059578#Comment_2059578
If you have time to tap a regressing gen. Then you're not being tunneled.
People tap gens while in chases. Especially if the gen is at a loop (T&L's, jungle gyms, pallet gyms, etc. etc. etc.). It's not that hard to imagine.
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@GoobyNugget said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059695#Comment_2059695
The only reason he accepted was because you were holding him at gun-point, or more fittingly, knife-point.
Only because he had my heart in his hands.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059551#Comment_2059551
im on 40 ms i always leave lobbies with ping above 60 never get those so it doesnt really matter
Hit validation on the killers' end, I mean.
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@csandman1977 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059595#Comment_2059595
The counter to DS remains the same. Slugging. It has and most likely always will be the counter.
The rework did make the perk weaker yes. However it makes it way more fair.
I kind of agree about the anti-tunnel perk. And really, if a killer wants you out of a game, there isn't a perk available that will save you. If a killer is hell bent on tunneling you, neither this version of DS nor any other version of DS is going to stop him.
Now as far as old DS, the killer had zero choice but to slug or eat the stun or allow 60 seconds of gen progression.
Now the killer can choose to slug or eat the stun. It is up to the survivor to decide whether or not to commit to a gen in the killer's face or avoid it.
This change is an indirect nerf to gen speeds without actually making them longer. It forces the survivors off the gens to heal or look for another generator.
Going to ignore the gen tapping. That is a whole seperate topic.
I agree with all of what you said; but I don't think think that speaks to the merit of the actual perk itself. DS is now more dysfunctional than ever; slugging, long chases, and lockers are still in place, but now you have to juggle the possibility of giving up your only protection against tunneling at the cost of moving forward the game, based off of incomplete information. It puts you in the tough spot of choosing to preserve your DS in the off chance that you get tunneled, or actually doing a generator like a functioning member of society, all when you don't know what the killer will do, where they are, and who they'll go for.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059595#Comment_2059595
You said what if I want to stop a gen regressing mid chase. How is that not gen tapping.
I agree on the healing point, the healing yourself (not others) clause should be removed.
Saying it was not abusable is BS, everyone accepts that survivors jumping on a gen and then hiding in a locker with Ds up was stupid and abusable. Your no longer being tunneled if your on a gen.
Did you not read what I said? I talked about how to counter the slugging thing.
It should never be an anti-tunnel perk? Then you want an anti-momentum perk? Like old ruin undying? Because that was an anti momentum perk too.
Wearing out while in a chase is a silly point, if a killer is tunneling that's gonna last about 20s tops unless they sucked at defending you as tunneling usually involves patrolling too.
The killer can't just pretend to ignore you, and if you get healed up by someone else and then jump on a gen your free game. If the killer "pretends to ignore you" then lose him with scratch marks and stealth. It's not difficult. Also if they are doing this then your team should be pumping out gens, in which case you've won the game for them. Be happy the killer has lost.
If your on a gen your not being tunneled, especially if your full health. You have chosen to progress the game, so you deserve to have some risk reward to sitting on a gen injured. And if your not injured loop them. You can waste (if your a good survivor) 60s in a chase of two hits maybe longer. Again you've basically won the game for you team unless they sucks and therefore do not deserve to win. It's a 4v1 game, and if your team isn't gonna do stuff then you deserve to lose (as it's balanced around all survivors being semi-competent).
I'm saying it's gen tapping, I'm not sure where the confusion is.
The point of DS is to be a second chance. Jumping in a locker to force a grab is fully the intention of the perk; you're supposed to have nifty tricks to force pickups to prevent slugging.
Did you not read what I said? Unbreakable is one activation and two perks to a situational slugging is not good efficiency. You're sacrificing one perk slot in the off chance that the other doesn't work.
And as I've said before, it's a second chance perk. If you are unfortunate enough to remember old DS, it's always been a second chance in all of its iterations. Plus, even if it was an anti-tunnel perk, it would be a pretty god-awful one at that. Tunneling is more nuanced than touch a gen=no longer being tunneled. And survivors who can loop well are going to have chases a lot longer than 20 seconds, especially if the killer is so bad that they need to tunnel.
You are heavily misunderstanding what is meant by "pretending to ignore you." The killer chases after another guy, and then is free to return once you touch a gen, start healing, or literally do anything that moves the game along. It forces you into an awkward position of do I actually go do something, or do I literally just sit around and wait to be tunneled to get any use out of this. Most cases, it's the first option.
And I'm not so sure what's so hard to understand about this; tapping a gen is not significant of you not being tunneled. Neither is it the case if the killer is on the other side of the map, you think you're in the clear, you go do an objective, only to have the killer come back and tunnel the ever loving crap out of you, even when other survivors are buzzing in to try to body block. The scenario you describe is only if you get tunneled off of the hook, which is such a rare occasion that it might as well be base kit. It's more subtle than just one scenario.
And as for "wasting 60 seconds in chase," what do you think tunneling is? Tunneling is specifically going after one survivor over all other survivors. If a killer is going to hard tunnel, which I have in the past many times, they are not going to be fazed by the prospect of a measly 5 second stun or slugging for 60 seconds, after the time deducted during the actual chase.
Just because it's a 4v1 doesn't mean you're in the ideal situation. There may as well be multiple survivors on hooks or slugged, and the game is not supposed to be balanced around perfect efficiency. Why do you think people complain about SWF so much?
And after all of that, the issue still remains that DS is not an anti-tunnel perk, and even by that approximation it's a terrible, terrible anti-tunnel perk. So now, it's just stuck in employment limbo trying to find a niche. Not only will a 5 second stun not put off a hard-tunneler off of the hook, but it only activates when you are tunneled straight off of the hook. If you do anything else, whether healing, tapping a gen, or just doing an objective because you think the killer is preoccupied, you've lost your protection immediately and the killer is free to tunnel the hell out of you. Talk about abuse, when now all the killer has to do is get the survivor to an objective and they have free reign to tunnel without worrying about DS. Doesn't sound very anti-tunnel to me.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059569#Comment_2059569
I have, i'm just continually amazed that we can reach this level of shittery over a video game.
I used to be gobsmacked by the amount of *insert expletive* and *insert another expletive* and *insert more expletives* in this game, but the human mind adapts to it frighteningly well. Talk about evil within.
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The only reason I play killer is so that I can have romantic moments with Davids and Bills, I don't know what you're complaining about. Bill took me out for a date at the saloon and then played some piano for me, it was very enjoyable.
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Well that seems a bit, ehhh.
I think that the speed should be drastically reduced based on the killer's distance from the hooked survivor, up to 32 meters. Having that disappear while in chase, though, can be not so great. Oftentimes, while unhooking a survivor or getting near said survivor, chase will be initiated, meaning that if anybody tries to unhook the guy, then the camping penalty is gone.
Which segways into a bigger issues. Camping is a way to guarantee a kill. Slowing down, or even stopping hook progress will allow for all generators to be completed, but it won't rescue said survivor, who will inevitably depip for reasons beyond their own control. For starters, the camped survivor should probably receive a safety pip automatically, along with a little blood point bonus. The point of camping is usually to elicit a reaction, which won't be there if they have a little gift at the end. The killer should have their blood points depleted very quickly while camping, and if they camp a survivor to death, have their blood point gain capped at 0. Moreover, if constant proximity to the hook (including patrols) are detected for large periods of time, the sacrifice emblem should automatically be non-existent and the killer's pip should be limited to a safety pip at most.
In terms of in-game solutions, your idea definitely works (save the in-chase requirement), but there should also be a mechanic to save the survivor. I doubt it should be a perk, since you shouldn't have to waste a perk to deal with a very specific situation that happens to also be in the killer's base kit. If it were a perk, though, I would have it so that for every 20 seconds the killer stays within 24/28/32 meters of a hooked survivor, gain a token, up to a maximum of 2 tokens. For each token, the next occasion that would put you into the dying state is ignored.
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They're in the game. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.
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More than healing, all of the above actions described in the nerf do not necessarily signify that you are not being tunneled, save for totems. Gen tapping, trying to use an instaheal, or even just thinking that you're in the clear, only to be viciously pursued by the killer again, are all situations that the nerf assumed meant you are not being tunneled.
Plus, it failed to address the actual issues with DS, being primarily slugging, it expiring in a long chase, and lockers. Overall this nerf was a poorly-thought out populist ploy to satiate the "DS Bad" mob.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059606#Comment_2059606
Um slugging didnt work if survivors did gens in your face then jump into a locker. Or run unbreakable. Or sprint burst away. "Never abusable" it was one of the best perks for 4 years along side unbreakable. Survivors could hook trade with it say they get unhooked run to a nearby hooked survivor unhook them and now that survivor has borrowed time. You down the unhooker slug them and they just get up later.
Lockers are one case (hint hint, they failed to address that in the nerf). Every other situation, even a gen, you would lunge at them. It's not that hard.
Unbreakable can solve slugging yes (just once), but sprint burst isn't even related to slugging. You can't sprintburst away a slug.
Just because it's a good perk doesn't mean it's automatically abusable. DS was a ludicrously good second chance perk, yes, and that was the full intention. It literally said in the description, "You get a second chance and a 5 second stun lol under conditions x y and z." It's not that difficult to understand.
And, hooking multiple survivors and starting a chain of unhooking can be frustrating yes, but it's not game breaking. The only situation that would happen is if you're in close proximity to said hooks (perhaps, basement camping), and even then, you can still be tunneled after saving a survivor from the hook. You can unhook in chase, big surprise.
Moreover, the topic at hand was that this nerf was awful, not how strong DS was before. Let's try to stick to that.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059578#Comment_2059578
I mean tapping is by definition working isnt it? It adds progress doesn't it? Even then again stopping regression is proving to the perk "yeah this guys fine deactivate"
Don't be pedantic. The point of tapping isn't to add the menial .5% to the generator, it's to stop it from regressing. You aren't working on a gen in the killer's face (which was never an issue, just slug for god's sake). And that's the issue. The nerf completely fails to address the actual issues with DS, not inconsiderable among which were slugging, long chases, and lockers to an extent, but instead offers meaningless and useless nerfs with no direction to appease the mob of "DS bad."
Just because you start healing doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you tap a gen doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you're being slugged doesn't mean you haven't been tunneled. Just because you can loop well doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you unhook another survivor in basement doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. Just because you found a totem doesn't mean you aren't being tunneled. And beyond all, just because this perk tries to mutilate DS into the bloody approximation of an anti-tunnel perk doesn't mean DS should be an anti-tunnel perk. It's a second chance, for god's sake.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059540#Comment_2059540
Sorry, but I think the majority know that if you touch a gen then your not being tunneled, and gen tapping is stupid anyhow with current base regression how it is so an indirect nerf to that is always welcome.
The slugged part I agree with,maybe make the timer freeze if your slugged, but your slugged timmer (before dying on ground) goes two times as fast.
This would mean they have to wait out two mins or come back for you repeatedly (same time as a hook, without the hook states).
It's not abusable anymore, putting a timer on how long it takes for you to be on a gen would mean that people would go back to gen tapping again every 4s if it was 5s intervals to keep D's.
And if you made it so the timer stopped it's now a reason to 4 man slug to death.
It's situational to stop it being abused, and still has the capability to be forced (lockers) or to stop real tunneling.
The discussion whether or not tapping a gen is stupid or not is a moot point. Not only gen-tapping though, if you feel you are in the clear and start healing, but the killer comes back, you're screwed again. It requires that you literally do nothing.
It was never abusable. DS is a second-chance perk, that just happens to require you to be tunneled or otherwise. It's not, it will never be (with its current setup), and it should never be an anti-tunnel perk. Not only can you completely play around it by slugging, but if you're in chase the timer still goes down. It still is completely vulnerable to slugging, wearing out while in chase, and now has the added middle finger of you can't do anything and have to wait for the killer to come and slug you. It's not just bad, it's absolutely worthless. The killer can just ignore you (or pretend to), and you have to make the choice between 1) doing absolutely nothing for 60 seconds just to get slugged or 2) working on a gen, losing the entire perk, and opening yourself up to being tunneled down again.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059540#Comment_2059540
"What if you want to stop a gen from regressing after your unhooked" Your not supposed to....its supposed to get you to safety so you can say heal up come back and jump on the gen. Its an anti tunnel perk not a "let me do my ######### for 60 seconds and ######### you killer for trying to stop me"
I mean tapping a gen to stop it from regressing, not work on it. I said stop regression, not plot down and work on it.
Even then, DS isn't total immunity unless you're in a locker, which this nerf failed to address in the first place. Slugging is still a very fun experience, which has not been addressed at all this entire nerf. Instead, they remove any agency of the survivor and demand that they literally do nothing and just wait to be slugged.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
I swear to god, every self-congratulatory spite post I read on this forum ages me by one more year. Immortal superbeing that I am, I can feel my #########' bones starting to melt from being here too long.
Let me tell you something.
When you say to yourself "Oh, I can do this miserable unfun thing to the other side, because they deserve it and I can feel good about myself on top of it", you're infinitely worse than whatever dickhead survivor tbagged you at the exit gates, or the facecamping bubba smacking you on the hook at 5 gens. Infinitely worse.
I will gladly take a hundred of them over one of you.
There's nothing sadder or less fortunate for me to have to look at for more than a fraction of a second than someone who's managed to elevate their resentment of the other side, "them" to such a level that they've decided--
Not only are they all bad, not only are they all out to get me, I can take moral, righteous pleasure in doing bad things to them. I'm doing a good thing! I'm indulging in my base, petty spite and it's not even my fault, i'm the good guy!
There is nothing worse.
Good day.
Hi, welcome to the planet Earth, where there is an abundance of self-righteous idiots under the guise of Dunning-Kruger. Enjoy your stay.
Seriously though, have you never came across these types of idiots before? Look at the foreign minister of any small Slavic country and that'll be in every single speech of theirs.
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@FlameGNG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059505#Comment_2059505
ooh yea it is you get hit like 2 meters from windows if its really bad, you get hit when you arew behind the killer they shold really prioritize the desync. There will always be desync but there are some stuff you can do to imrpove it
Well that's stuff to be fixed by hit validation, unless it's your connection with the really bad ping. Hit validation just isn't strict enough, because there are a lot of players who don't have strong connections and a complete strict server-based idea of clients' positions would make it absolutely infuriating.
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Well the nerfs were kind of brute-strengethed into there. What if you want to stop a generator from regressing after you're unhooked? What if you get slugged for 60 seconds? What if the killer is on the other side of the map so you stop to heal, because what are you supposed to do, just sit there and wait to be slugged?
Sure, it sounds good on paper and appeased the rag-tag band of nerf DS ideologues, but it just lacks nuance and subtlety. It not only has cut down on DS' second chance capacity, but also its anti-tunnel capacity. It's just too situational, and for no good reason, to even be considered using.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059471#Comment_2059471
Yet people will keep trying over and over, and complaining about it in the process, to use it in that way, when they know for a fact that it is unreliable at best even when there's no lag or desync.
The point is that de-sync is an issue that extends beyond being exhausted on the floor.
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You can't just "fix de-sync," it's much more of a multifactorial and complex operation than that.
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@Superyoshiegg said:
Stop trying to use it to avoid a swing.
Not only does it rarely work, but it's not the proper usage anyway.
Use the boost to make it to pallets and windows that you would otherwise not. The Killer has no opportunity to bait you out, and can't counter it in any way.
Dead Hard does not need a buff of any sort, outside of fixing desync (which is not a problem for Dead Hard specifically).
To be fair, just because that's not the intent doesn't mean it's not part of the kit.
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@JimboMason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2056878#Comment_2056878
poor homie, someone help my man
rawr x3 nuzzles
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Don’t worry, I’m probably just stupid.
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@Wylesong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2056655#Comment_2056655
I am very confused about your response. You start off kind of rude and mean but then with a nice point afterwards. Aside from the normal DUH JUST LEAVE THEN response the rest of your post is good. I agree with most of it. I also think people are missing the posters point. He does not I think overall hate the game but probably hates what the rest of us solo players do. When we get fellow teammates who either do nothing or just seem to refuse to play and in the end THEY should be the ones to leave. I would rather have someone wanting to learn and try on my solo survivor team then the forever NOOB player who forgets perks exist and thinks dry humping the corner is the way to win. lol
Well I don’t see what’s so confusing about me stating simple fact after simple fact. If he doesn’t like the game, leave. I can get where he’s coming from but the game is a subjective experience and he can pick up the controller for any other game he wants.
And yes, solo queue is the tenth ring of hell but apparently I have enough good karma to occasionally get good teammates.
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@bgbomb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2056918#Comment_2056918
What?
No
once you hit the Great check you will use all your tokens in one time.
So you don't need to hit 24 great skill check
Did they change it in the PTB? Last I played I got one token per skillcheck and one token per skillcheck and one token per skillcheck etc .etc.
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Prove Thyself will come in handy more often.
The point of fast track was to help survivors push through games that aren't going so well. If they're getting a lot of hooks, and nobody's working on generators, the game grinds to a halt. Fast track hopes to break that stalemate by letting survivors work on generators. It's a nice little safety buoy to help you stay afloat when the ship crashes.
That being said, it doesn't do a very good job at it. Sure, a potential of 54% shaved off of a generator (44-ish seconds) sounds great, but in order to get there, your friends are all dead. I really think that it should be 4 tokens per hook, or give tokens when you are hooked as well.
In the normal game, with 2 dead survivors and the 2 other survivors have been hooked once or twice (we'll assume 1.5), that means (2x3x3)+(1.5x2x3)=24 tokens, 48% saved per fast track, saving you 38 seconds on a gen, if they've all been hooked before the last generator pops, and if the killer doesn't regress the generator. If you could save that 38 seconds in a quick burst, it would be great, but unfortunately it's spread between how often you get great skillchecks. That's assuming they make it so that getting hooked yourself grants tokens too.
If it was 4 tokens per hook, you would get 36 tokens, many of which you aren't going to spend, but granting you a potential 72% or 56 seconds on a gen. Wowee, that's amazing, until you realize that all of your teammates are dead.
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It's a pretty decent perk that helps you salvage the endgame, your weakest time. It takes all pressure off of worrying about survivors escaping, letting you commit to chases more. Of course, if you want a good endgame perk, try NOED, but this is the road less scummy.
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@JimboMason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2056635#Comment_2056635
understandable, btw, are you down bad or down bad bad
I'm severely dehydrated
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It's called prediction. Eventually, you'll get the sense of where survivors are leading you. Either deny the head on completely or fake it out. If they anticipate that you'll fake it, you can actually just grab them out fo the locker, since the area where you can trigger a grab is pretty generous.
It's also self-regulating, in that a survivor in lockers is a survivor not doing gens.
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Then leave. Nobody's forcing you to play.
The unfortunate thing about DBD is that fun is directly correlated with skill. I suck at survivor, which is why I get to red ranks and then go play killer, which I am much, much better at. There are many good survivor mains, much better than you and I, who can escape with red ranks. It's just the issue of too broad skill sets; there is a very large range of skill at rank 1. The sweaty tryhards who can win against 4 man SWF's no matter what, and the baby pigs who ambush into walls.
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I take personal offense to the fact that you put Bill and David in the lowest tiers. They are literally the #1 cause of dehydration on earth cause they make me so goddamn thirsty.
That's the bad joke way of saying I would let Bill spit on me