ShamelessPigMain
ShamelessPigMain
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Well, it depends on what you mean by "beat."
If they aren't the best loopers and you keep up the pressure on them, their superb coordination won't help when they're all trying to pick up the slugs, so nobody is doing gens. In order to keep up that pressure, the killer has license to slug and tunnel, but camping won't get you far in this case. Tunneling one survivor to get them out of the game is an immediate pressure reliever for you, and slugging survivors means that they have to get off of gens right left and center.
That being said, it's impossible to know if you're playing against a SWF, and you might have just ruined 4 normal Solo queue survivors' days.
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He's really fun to play, and absolutely trods on noobish survivors, but he's 1) hard to play 2) not too hard to counter 3) not that great, tbh.
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He's probably talking about 3-gen doctor, which can be absolutely infuriating to play against. I doubt there's a way to solve this without driving his base kit into the ground, but we'll see.
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Absolutely; it turns unsafe hooks for you and the rescued survivor into possible escapes, as long as you can both loop decently. It won't stop face camping, usually that's a guaranteed one for one, but it'll help in other situations too.
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It's probably a bit hyperbolic to say it's "killing" the game, but it's certainly ruining a lot of fun (and very frustrating at that). It should probably incur tougher in-game and bloodpoint/emblem penalties. Bloodpoints should probably be cut down all the way to zero after camping one guy to death and emblems should probably be limited to a safety pip.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
I know right, we've been complaining about this since day 1 - that's why it's in TOTAL DECLINE.
Just check out these graphs over the lifetime of the game!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MHODZZOHDX5K/image.png
This game is totally dying
BTW... I'm joking in case you haven't figured out. But you folks need to stop this "it's killing the game" argument because if camping and tunneling was going to kill this game, it would of done so by now.
It peaks as new content comes out or they have a free weekend, then it drops down to it's average of between 20k to 40k depending on what region is playing.
I'll leave everybody else to explain all the reasons why you need to GET GUD
BTW, so you can't accuse me of doctoring the picture, here's the source.https://steamcharts.com/app/381210#All
Well that doesn't necessarily speak to the turnover rate of this game. Plus, it's not like there's other alternatives to DBD (other than Dead by Roblox but ...)
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Well, most new players don't know to never cleanse against a plague. Even then, the really good ones will always be spread out to heavily limit your snowball potential.
The thing is that plague isn't played that often either. She's sometimes just plain unfun to play, because it's really hard to efficiently manage her corrupt purges and sickness. There's often a lot of inefficiencies in her basekit that make it feel like things have "gone to waste."
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No.
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You shouldn't have to bring a rainbow map and a perk like small game to prevent a total endgame sweep, or even scout out for 5 totems, which can be a total waste of time. Its very existence is a terrible part of the game. There is so little input required (and if you have enough pressure up, totems aren't going to be a part of the equation), for such aa high reward.
Other hexes can be cleansed before they even work by finding one special totem. I would love to run huntress' lullaby, but I can't. NOED should get the same treatment; designate one dull totem to be activated, and if it is cleansed by endgame, it won't proc. That, in addition to a general nerf. It's supposed to help you salvage a game that didn't go so well, not win you the game.
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You don't have to hit bodyblocking survivors, and it's a valid strategy for spreading out the pain. Plus, most bodyblockers expect to take a hit and be ignored, so you can target them then.
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Hi, this is the FBI here to take you away for putting ghostface below doctor.
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They usually are in your FoV, it's just a single pixel of them is protruding from the side. The flashlight beam, on account of its width, will inevitably cause things like this but it's really no worse than getting blinded from right in front of you.
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@FromBlightsPOV said:
It's healthy for DBD to have competitors
I wouldn't exactly call this game a "competitor."
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thank you Kanye very cool
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I get a lot of indoor maps, so I don't like the new addons; they make it hit the ceiling accidentally. I wish it would increase the actual range instead of just the height.
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When unhooking, there's currently a bug that makes it so that they go behind the rescuer. It'll probably be fixed soon.
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He seems pretty fun, and that's what lazy, filthy casuals like me like. Trick blades on Midwich is going to be fun.
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@yoko123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052375#Comment_2052375
On one hand, I agree that tunneling is unhealthy for the game in general, and something should be done to prevent it. On the other hand, I fear that taking away the Killer's ability to focus down a survivor to gain the pressure needed to stop the final generators from popping would be detrimental as well.
Perhaps they could instead of a punishment, add some benefit to hooking a different survivor each time. After hooking one survivor, hooking a new survivor grants you double bloodpoints and speeds up their entity hook progress by 10 seconds. Something like that maybe. Just a little incentive.
Well yes, the way to play killer is to preferably get a survivor out of the game early. That being said, there is a difference between being economical and hard tunneling. If the latter is to be addressed in a perk, I would probably have it so that if you are chased for 50 seconds more than the survivor who has been chased the second most amount of time (EG, you are clearly being targeted), and you have been chased for at least 60 seconds (not relative), then the next time you are hooked, you will not go down a hook state and your hook progress is severely slowed down (EG, If you're on death hook and this perk is active, you won't die, you just pick up where you left off last time).
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You're right. It's a second chance perk, and always was. It still is; a killer grasp escape is a second chance, but won't dissuade a killer from tunneling you. A true anti-tunnel perk would not proc just once and then go on vacation. It never was a full-fledged anti-tunnel perk, it's just a watered-down second chance that just so happens to require you to be tunneled. Believe me, If I'm going to tunnel a guy, one measly 5 second stun is a fart in the hurricane.
I think that, better than making a new anti-tunnel perk, it should be part of the base kit. Dissuading from scummy play styles shouldn't be a necessity, but a given.
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I think the main opposition is that the devs want to make sure the game isn't too reliant on perks. They want to ensure it's still possible to play without perks, to make sure the game isn't too punishing for beginners or those without access to DLC's. They're meant to be fun little buffs and boons, not the path to success. Adding another perk slot would only exacerbate this issue.
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It used to be the case, but now we have dedicated servers.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2050655#Comment_2050655
I believe it is much higher. Freddy and Leatherface alone is close to 80%!
Well Freddy is 75% and Leatherface is 72%, probably because they're some of the easiest killers to play. Leatherface is just good at stomping on noobs, but Freddy certainly needs a nerf.
The average kill rate for killers though, is around 60%. I would prefer that it be 50%, but 60% isn't bad. It's also worth noting that the spread of data is still pretty concerning. There is an 18% range between the deadliest killer (Freddy at 75%) and the least deadly killer (Nurse at 57%). Although I'd expect to see the lower end of the spectrum fall below 50%, it would be a lot better if all killers had a very similar kill rate.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2050747#Comment_2050747
Not all the time actually, many plague players actually make this mistake. If you are at a loop and have already infected a survivor, it might be best to just smack them because it would be quicker. You should only try to fully infect survivors if they are in a dead zone or you are body blocking them.
I usually run the purple cup and green cup add-ons (the ones that increases vile purge effectiveness and charge speed), so in most cases, if I vomit on them, they're already broken.
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@JackFrostMan said:
I don't give hatch to players. Either the survivor finds it (good job) or I find it and close it. So eh.
But what about the baby Dweets?
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If they really beg and grovel, sure. Some things are worth ranking down for.
And by some things, I mean a Bill crouch walking at you and staring you in the eyes.
Never give a hatch to a Nea, though. It's like letting a vampire into your home. They'll T-bag, say gg ez, and then go do a DUI.
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Well, I usually just prefer to puke on them instead of having to go through the entire process. It's really a waste to hit them before they're broken, anyhow.
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A lobby with a Bill, David, Steve, and Felix tried to perform unspeakable NSWF actions on daddy Myers. It was as heart-warming as it was sacrilegious.
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Funniest ######### I've ever seen, have 5 Emmys and a few Grammys.
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In theory, probably, in practice, no. It's the same situation as tinkerer.
Once you get the notification, you have the information (when you ascertain that it's a thrill of the hunt, not a failed skillcheck), but you'll probably already be in a chase. You can only do one at a time, either give up a hex or give up a down. If you consistently choose the hex, you won't win. Even if you have devour hope, you can't get stacks if you're always protecting your totem against cleansing. Not only does the transit take time, at which they can take hits and body block if they're really intent on cleansing it, but it just isn't worth it. Thrill of the hunt gives you information, but no tools to act on that information.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2050627#Comment_2050627
Solidarity having a 100% conversion rate would be a bit overkill and pretty much double your healing speed in a lot of cases
Figured since we already have stake out it would be very easy to program this into distortion as well but chases could work too
Can’t imagine how long the description of autodidact would be but that’s a great change to help fix its rng problem
I feel like poised will be maybe used with my buff but yours is overkill since scratch marks are so integral to the game as a whole
Poised and solidarity are probably going to be a bit brute strength, now that I think of it, but I think they'd still be too situational to work. When they do work, hooray, when they don't, oh well.
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Doctor is the king of this. Madness directly interferes with the progress of generators, and the only way to solve it is to leave the terror radius. It's a catch 22.
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Well the average kill rate is at a healthy 60-ish percent so I'm not sure where the problem is.
Also just get good lol ggez
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Well I think the thing about stake out is that it's an answer in search of a problem. Generator speeds are very much temperamental. When the game is going well in your favor, generator speeds can seem very gratuitous. When the game isn't going well in your favor, generator speeds slow down to a snail's pace. That's why I prefer perks like fast track. They take the situations that you aren't doing so well and help you make up for them (I really think it should give you tokens when you are hooked, and probably give 5 tokens when a survivor is sacrificed or murdered). Stake out requires you to go out of your way to get stacks, and even then it's such a minute boost that it isn't worth it.
If I could have my say, I would have it so that while in the killer's terror radius, you gain an increase to objective speeds and a much bigger increase to altruistic/unhooking actions. That would help survivors with 3-gen situations, or any other situation where the killer is concentrating a lot of pressure in one area (like slugging situations or getting off clutch heals). It would mitigate high-risk situations by giving you an even higher reward. Even then, it would be situational and probably not meta.
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A solidarity buff is something we've always wanted, but I don't really get the point of the grunts of pain volume reduction. Why not a plain 100%, or at least 95%, conversion rate?
As for distortion, I think we have enough terror radius token perks. Perhaps we could try basing it off of seconds in chase, instead of the terror radius.
The autodidact change sounds great, but I think the skillcheck odds bonus might be a bit overkill. The altruistic healing skillcheck chance is 15%, and so a 35% chance for a skillcheck every second still fails to address the issue of sometimes RNGesus will smile upon you, other times it'll refuse to pay up. What about, in addition to perhaps a 5% increase to base chance (to 20%), every skillcheck chance that doesn't pull up up a skillcheck increases the probability of getting a skillcheck by 10%, which is completely dropped to the default percentage after. hitting a skillcheck? That would mean that a skillcheck is absolutely guaranteed in 8 seconds, halfway through the heal, meaning that you can complete the heal. If a guaranteed 8 second heal seems a bit overpowered, maybe reduce the skillcheck probability increase or decrease the amount of skillcheck progression bonus per token.
The fundamental issue with poised is the same issue with dark sense. It activates a maximum of 5 times per match, and isn't even that much of a boon. I would probably shoot up the time of no scratch marks up to 30, 40, or even 50 seconds. Even then, there's still the issue of difficult activation.
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You can get 2k's easily by camping. Sure, it's great to reduce the amount of tryhard sweat lords in the queues, but I don't think the solution should be to encourage camping.
Rather than emphasizing kills as the mode of determining "wins," it should be more inclusive of things like chases, gen gatekeeping and hooks. These reflect skill, while kills are more like suggestions of skill which can be distorted or misrepresentative.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2047793#Comment_2047793
If a killer can be beaten by holding W, predropping pallets and slamming gens, then the game is artificially removing their map pressure by allowing the cheesiest and most basic/mindless of tactics to work against them. Which is what happens to Plague.
And I wouldn't talk about kill rates, they are also artificially inflated purely by solo que and bad players going against people they shouldn't.
Well it's important you point out that's a hypothetical. The easiest solution to holding W is zoning, which requires some experience but eventually becomes integral to the killer base kit. Same thing goes with pre-dropping pallets; the more game knowledge you have (meaning the more survivor you play), the more pallets you can mind game. There are a lot of pallets I keep up just for that purpose; if they try to loop there, it's either unsafe or I've already got it figured out. If you just chase directly behind a default meg with sprint burst who's dropping every pallet in existence, you can predict where they're going and intercept them. Or, you could take this as a blessing and destroy said pallets. I'd take that over getting looped by a bunch of toxic Neas any day.
As for kill rates, the same goes the other way around. There are just as many killer-sided matchups as there are survivor-sided matchups. And don't even get me started on well-coordinated SWFs going against rank 5's.
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It's very much nuanced; there's no given single principal. Instead, it's a list of suggestions that you can hope to follow. These include:
- Hope to god you have iron will.
- Play unpredictably, try to run at sporadic intervals to deceive the killer, don't give off environmental cues, (grass rustling).
- Try walking away to make distance.
- Sometimes, if you know they're phasing, you can run back on your scratch marks (or walk back).
- If you can predict where they are, you can window vault or pallet vault, as they can't vault through while phasing.
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I play the game, because I'm not petty and spiteful. The only reason a genrush occurs is because the killer fails to apply pressure. Getting consistent downs and ending (or leaving) chases efficiently is how you apply this pressure; you don't need to be patrolling gens constantly, you just need to be doing something with your time. This is why killers like doctor cater to newer players; with the constant tracking, they always have somewhere to go.
By the way, blaming survivors for genrushing is like if survivors blamed killers for hookrushing. The point of the game is literally to do generators.
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"It's not used the way it was intended to be and has zero counterplay on the killer side. A perk, that's intended for the survivor to dodge a killer hit, is now used instead for distance, to reach a window or pallet."
It was never meant for dodging a killer; it was always meant to make distance and reach a pallet. All exhaustion perks are. The only reason that it has I-frames is because the hitboxes are so unfortunately large and lag behind the survivor so much that you would get hit from downtown without them. The point of all exhaustion perks, even head on to an extent, is to extend or find loops by making distance.
"Where's the counter-play on the killer side? You can wait it out if they're using it to dodge a hit, but for distance? There's nothing you can do. They'll take another loop around a structure, you'll be making all the correct manoeuvres, they hit E and make the window/pallet and now the chase can continue for another 30 seconds+ because of it."
If they're using it for dodging hits, like you claim, the counterplay is to wait it out. You don't even need to know if they have DH, take it as a given and wait for them to panic. If it's used to make distance, the counterplay is to position and loop correctly. Don't let them line up to a window so that they can DH perfectly and then manage to get a fast vault; if you're at a short wall jungle gym, for instance, run them such that the window vault will be perpendicular, forcing them to DH early and get a medium vault, which may even end up being a hit for you. If they don't, they'll overshoot the window and be unable to vault. Even if you can't zone them and they manage to get an efficient use of DH off, it's just a few extensions of the loop.
"There's zero counterplay when its used for distance, that's what annoys me. There's nothing I can do and the fact that every survivor can equip this and waste more of the killers time in a chase is oppressive."
Not all perks are meant to have direct counterplay. Perks like Pop Goes the Weasel (Unless you're running repressed alliance but why would you run repressed alliance), bamboozle, corrupt intervention, infectious fright, rancor, monitor & abuse, and even tinkerer have no direct counter. They're meant to be buffs; they aren't supposed to always be circumvented. Yes, it can feel annoying and even cheap when you are denied a hit by DH, but it's nothing good and efficient looping can't solve. It is more situational than people give credit for, and takes more nuance than just pressing "e." For every skillful dead hard, there are 20 default megs dead harding into a wall.
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@TunnelVision said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2042631#Comment_2042631
It's been addressed hundreds of times. The devs stated on so many occasions that this is a tactic. You may not like the tactic; but it's a tactic nonetheless.
I meant addressed as in solved. It's scummy and the devs clearly don't want it (hence the proximity to hook penalty), but a reduction to emblems is only so much of an incentive. The unfortunate reality is that it's still an easy way to get 2 kills while still ruining the experience for the other side.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045207#Comment_2045207
Except the game artificially disables the killers ability to pressure survivors outside of the 3 killers whose power can be consistently used for both chase and mobility.
Well no, the average kill rate for killers is still high.
You don't necessary need mobility. You just need efficiency; always have something to be doing. If you're chasing survivors and downing them very quickly, you're doing well, because downed survivors, hooked survivors, and survivors trying to rescue and heal those survivors are survivors who aren't doing gens. Plague with corrupt purge has completely below average mobility, and she's still a very strong killer. More than mobility, chase and tracking ability (the latter of which can be developed by game sense) are the most important.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045307#Comment_2045307
I think Breakout is fine as is. How would you buff it?
I would buff Saboteur to only enter cooldown if you actually sabotage a hook with it (to prevent accidental shenanigans such as healing at the hook), as well as show the aura of hooks as long as a survivor is in the dying state (not just while someone is being picked up).
I think a breakout buff has to be a bit nuanced. Buffing the percentage would possibly make some hook locations impossible, and allowing it to stack would be useless in solo queue, OP in SWF. I think that, if under the effects of breakout, the amount of wiggle progress added when dropped by the killer should have an additional 15/20/25%, meaning that if the killer drops you you gain an extra 50% wiggle progress instead of the default 25%. That might have disgusting combos with sabotages, though. The only other idea was that taking a protection hit for a carried survivor adds 15/20/25% to their wiggle progress.
As for saboteur, I'd say your idea is spot on. I'd probably reduce the cooldown slightly too, if nothing other than for quality of life.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045254#Comment_2045254
Yep. I can't count the number of time I've rolled my eyes at teammates taking hits for carried survivors for no reason - whether for me or other survivors. It almost always results in the entire match being thrown.
Back to OP's post though: no. Hooking is an essential part of a killer's task. It should be a very rare occasion to wiggle off - especially without the help of other survivors. There are some maps right now where there is only one viable hook in a given area, giving the killer no option but to slug or let survivors do as they please in that zone. Very broken.
Well the point of wiggling off is really just to prevent 24/7 basements. Without altruistic interactions, a hook should always be guaranteed. Most maps I get, there's an abundance of hooks, and so I've never really had to deal with the areas with broke hooks.
That being said, when an altruistic killer grasp save does work, it's very fun. That's why I think breakout and saboteur should probably get buffs.
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043304#Comment_2043304
To add onto this - Using Break Out and the Syringe/Agent will most likely guarantee an escape even on your own. Or atleast you'll be very close.
(as in, you helping someone else)
Not really, you'd be better off with a very fast toolbox, but you'll probably go down for it. Even then, it's not worth going down, as a healthy survivor, to help a downed survivor get to the injured state. It's a net loss of a health state and a waste of time.
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Well, first consider that hitboxes are a little bit generous in the killer's favor. Especially behind the survivor, the hitbox is ridiculously large, and the killer's swing cone is equally large.
Hit validation on DBD is not strict. It will only invalidate hits that are absolutely ridiculous. In cases with more subtlety, it rarely steps in. I'm not sure exactly what parameters it considers a the moment, but it definitely should be much, much stricter, being based off of an exact calculation of the clients' locations that it has at the moment.
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They're problems but it's not the time to be preaching about doomsday. Yes, I don't think it's getting through to people how much camping and especially tunneling work, but eventually it'll become too big to ignore.
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These aren't really problems, even the heal tech isn't necessarily even an exploit. You're really just describing either survivors being toxic or perks in action. Seems very much like "we live in a society" to me.
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Well this is completely correct. If the killer fails to apply pressure, then there is literally no reason for survivors not to do objectives. If they can apply enough pressure (AKA slugging nurse), then objectives completely grind to a standstill while the team tries to recover. It's a much more dynamic and nuanced situation than people give credit to.
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Rarely will DS activate on a hook right outside of an exit gate; I've had that happen once. There's no need for such vitriol over such a singularity.
Moreover, 15-20 seconds is ridiculous. A killer can tunnel you off of hook, and a chase with BT will likely last 15-20 seconds anyways. If not, they can just wait and count. The old DS is fine; it's a second chance in case a survivor happens to be tunneled, intentional or not. If you do come across a survivor with DS, you can 1) chase and slug them; a slugged survivor is a survivor who isn't doing objectives, and a survivor healing that slugged survivor is a survivor who isn't doing objectives 2) find someone else. There are plenty fo fish in the sea.
The core of DS is not to prevent being tunneled off of the hook; it simply requires that you are tunneled off of hook, with the latest updates. The core of DS is to provide a second chance, if you happen to be tunneled off of hook. DS has always been a second chance, and with every forced mutilation to force it into the gruesome approximation of an anti-tunnel perk, it grows weaker and weaker.
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It's just 30 seconds of breaking, and even then, there are so many hooks that you can often just turn around and find a new hook. Rarely does it ever work without incredible coordination and at least two survivors with a toolbox/god forbid saboteur, bless their hearts.
Whenever a sabotage really does screw me over, I just slug the guy and tunnel down the saboteur. Even if the guy I got first does get healed, they still took a lot of time to go find and heal the slug.