yoko123
yoko123
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- yoko123
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@Seraphor said:
Example 1 will be rectified by the DS changes coming on Tuesday. Jumping on a gen will deactivate DS so you'll be safe to grab people off them.
Example 2 is merely the limitations of the perk. Would you suggest DS should be up indefinitely? Killer lost a lot of gen pressure chasing you for the full 60 duration of DS. You've done a good job in giving him the run around for that long.
Good points honestly. The new changes will mean that, even if you get hit by a 59 second DS, at least that survivor did nothing during that time. And you're right about DS needing an eventual limitation.
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@KingFrost said:
*Survivor gets unhooked*
*killer immediately hooks a survivor he was carrying to a nearby hook*
*Killer now goes after the guy who just got unhooked moments before he hooked another survivor*
Guess that's not tunneling...
Is it really tunneling if the Killer starts chasing you after they went out of their way to leave your hook, find another survivor, down them, and hook them?
I understand you are pointing out the situation in which, a split second after the unhook, another survivor got hooked and the Killer comes straight for you. From the survivor's perspective it might feel like tunneling, but from the Killer's perspective, they purposefully went out of their way to find a new survivor.
If Decisive deactivated on hooks, sure it would be more situational, but given perks like Deliverance, Second-Wind, Autodidact, exist (Which can either be very strong or completely useless) I don't think it would be a bad change necessarily. It would just mean DS only activates if you're getting hooked twice in a row, which to many people is what they define as tunneling.
I personally don't consider it tunneling if the Killer hooks me after having chased and downed other survivors.
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
You're right. It's a second chance perk, and always was. It still is; a killer grasp escape is a second chance, but won't dissuade a killer from tunneling you. A true anti-tunnel perk would not proc just once and then go on vacation. It never was a full-fledged anti-tunnel perk, it's just a watered-down second chance that just so happens to require you to be tunneled. Believe me, If I'm going to tunnel a guy, one measly 5 second stun is a fart in the hurricane.
I think that, better than making a new anti-tunnel perk, it should be part of the base kit. Dissuading from scummy play styles shouldn't be a necessity, but a given.
On one hand, I agree that tunneling is unhealthy for the game in general, and something should be done to prevent it. On the other hand, I fear that taking away the Killer's ability to focus down a survivor to gain the pressure needed to stop the final generators from popping would be detrimental as well.
Perhaps they could instead of a punishment, add some benefit to hooking a different survivor each time. After hooking one survivor, hooking a new survivor grants you double bloodpoints and speeds up their entity hook progress by 10 seconds. Something like that maybe. Just a little incentive.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237381/decisive-strike-isnt-quite-an-anti-tunnel-perk
Conceptually it is meant to be anti-tunnel perk. The examples you gave are examples of it not being used as such. The new changes to it will solidify it as being an anti-tunnel perk which is what it should be. It should not be granting you immunity to do hook trades without any consequences or sit on a gen for 60 seconds and hop into a locker the moment the killer shows up.
The first example I gave demonstrates how the perk can be successfully used without being tunneled, and the second example demonstrates how the perk fails when being strictly tunneled.
I understand that, conceptually, it's meant to be anti-tunnel, but just because you got picked up 60 seconds after getting off the hook doesn't necessarily mean you're getting tunneled. And just because 61 seconds passed before you got picked up doesn't necessarily mean you're NOT getting tunneled.
I do like the new changes! I think they're healthy overall. I am concerned however if someone gets unhooked, decides to get healed, then begins healing a teammate (likely their savior) before the killer shows up and goes tunneling now without consequence because the perk expired. This would not be difficult with Nurse's Calling on Ghostface, for example.
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@TotemsCleanser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1930536#Comment_1930536
This makes zero sense. The new animations didn't change the speed at which you run, nor the size of the survivors, nor anything like that. So how would it be an "illusion" if you're clearly getting hit from way further than you should be? People have been hit by killers from the other side of pallets and through walls. With no ping involved. Even some killers have said that they got hits they had no business getting. Something is up, no question about it.
If anything, the new animations should make the hits look better. Although I don't really like the new running animation, the fact that survivors no longer lean so far forward means that their character is closer to the actual hitbox. Yet for some reason, the hits look worse than usual. I definitely think this is some kind of server issue. I don't know what exactly but there's definitely a disconnect between what the killer sees and what a survivor sees now.
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@MedicSpirit7 said:
its Freddy are we shocked
Lol I know Freddy has a bit of a name for getting weird hits due to his small size and weapon yet regular lunge range, but I swear I've had this happen with Clown, Trapper, Wraith, all the 'normal' Killers.
If I had to guess, I think something changed about the way the server handles the positions of Killers and Survivors. Judging by the fact that Killers are lunging earlier than normal, it must look like on their screen that the Survivor is closer than the Survivor thinks they are.
I just wonder what happened because, before this patch, the hits seemed fine from both sides. I hardly ever felt cheated as a Survivor, and was practically never cheated as Killer.
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Hi,
This happened on the PTB and it's now happening on live. I want to know if it's just me or what.
Killers are now lunging WAY earlier than they should be and still getting hits.
I have 1656 hours on this game and I play both survivor and killer. I know what distance a lunge is.
But as of the new update, from the survivor perspective, Killers are lunging way earlier than they could possibly get a hit and consistently downing me. The Killer used and connection don't seem to matter.
Here's a picture a few frames after Freddy started his lunge.
And here's where the hit registered. (Notice the blood)
Is anyone else experiencing this? I insist that this almost never happened before this update but now consistently occurs.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1910924#Comment_1910924
No reason to hide? Red ranks back in the day was probably 80% nurse 15% Billy. That’s it. There was no looping involved because every session was Nurse, Nurse, Omegablink Nurse, 4-5 blink Nurse, and then an Instasaw Billy.
I will admit that Nurse is an exception to stealth. Because of her high-threat chase ability and terrible movement speed, it's natural to exploit her unique weaknesses. For pretty much every other killer (and some of these points even apply to Nurse) though,
The problem with hiding is that it just doesn't work unless the Killer doesn't know what they're doing.
Even with no perks, the Killer can:
- Look for scratch marks in the distance
- Look for crows
- Listen for generators
- Just look around
You might crouch around the map, not leaving any scratch marks, sure, even though this is a big waste of time in most cases. You might also run calm spirit or crouch past crows, but now we're using a precious perk slot. Even then, doing generators is unavoidable, and if a generator gets worked on, and the Killer doesn't see scratch marks running away from it, they're gonna take a look around. And there's quite honestly a good chance you'll get found and the Killer will get a free hit.
Alternatively, you can sit on a generator until the Killer shows up, then sprint to the nearest safe loop. Now you have generator progress, an extra health state, and your team can now completely focus on objectives too because the Killer won't be looking for them.
Not to mention perks:
- Whispers will make sure the Killer never wastes time looking for someone that isn't around
- BBQ is map-wide aura reading.
- Discordance
- Tinkerer
- Survellience
- Thrilling Tremors
That's not all the tracking perks in the game even, but the truth is that stealth attempts are usually a waste in one way or another. Even when successful, there's no real payoff, and when the Killer finds you using common sense, you lose the benefit of being chased while healthy.
Anecdotes aren't usually worth much, but I feel the need to repeat that as Survivor, whenever I lose, it's because I get hooked and see 2-3 auras of crouching Survivors. In what situation do 3 people in 3 different parts of the map need to all be hiding? It's easy to inefficient with stealth. As Killer too, whenever I catch Survivors trying to hide, I know I'm going to an easy game off the start because they won't be doing generators.
But maybe your experiences are different and maybe you've concluded that by avoiding the Killer entirely you're able to get more generators done and escape more often without sacrificing your teammates. If that's the case, maybe I'm wrong.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1910905#Comment_1910905
You don’t need second chance perks if you don’t get into chases in the first place. Stealth has always been optimal in DBD.
Stealth has never been optimal in DBD. Way back with infinite loops, vacuum pallets, and OP toolboxes, you had no reason to hide, and in the current META of gen regression, you're doomed to be killed eventually if you aren't constantly distracting the Killer and pressuring generators.
The only time you benefit from stealth is.
- You are sure the Killer is not doing ANYTHING else but looking for you
- You successfully remain undetected (Otherwise, you give the Killer a free hit)
- Even in this ideal scenario, you're not doing generators which means the Killer might as well be chasing you
The moment the Killer stops looking for you, sure, you can now do generators and you haven't been hooked, yay! But now a teammate who WAS doing generators is going to get interrupted, chased, and killed. You can't hide forever, especially with Whispers, BBQ, Thrilling Tremors, crows, and quite honestly, a little guesswork.
Stealth is bad, to be blunt. Teammates hiding at the edge of the map instead of doing generators while I get chased for 2 minutes is the number one reason I lose Survivor games.
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
Frankly I think all meta perks should be nerfed.
DS, Unbreakable, DH, Ruin, Pop, BBQ, etc.
All of them need to be gutted to be as amazing as Camarederie, Monstrous Shrine, No One Left Behind, This is not Happening, etc.
Then we'd have a really fun game.
I think there is a solid middle ground area between "You can't hook me for 60 seconds" and "While on the verge of DYING, I'm slightly better at hitting skill checks!"
I personally enjoy the level of strength within perks like Quick and Quiet. It's on a short cooldown, but is a really helpful perk for chases or just getting around the map quicker without making noise. I also think perks like Any Means Necessary are interesting, although definitely not good enough to compete with the current META.
Overall, I just think there shouldn't be such a gap in strength to perks. I hope the Devs tone down the META perks and show some love to the lesser used ones.
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The most unforgivable act of laziness in my opinion is the continued existence of Iridescent Head.
When they made Deathslinger, they made sure his insta-down addon was near useless. Why doesn't that philosophy apply to Huntress? Literally any nerf would be welcome to the Iridescent Head. Most Huntresses I encounter refuse to use it themselves because it feels like cheating. And almost all Huntresses I find using it play as toxic as possible.
It's simply an unhealthy addon. I think a lot of people would be happier if they simply removed it. I wish the devs worked faster on this stuff.
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@JinSime said:
They are buffing both survivor and killer perks that are less used. They're just taking their time to adjust things. About Red Herring, I think you need strategy to use it. It's not simply go into a locker, but it can be good to earn some time from the killer by patrolling an empty area for you to do your objective somewhere. You just have to have a build for it, just as other perks. I'm not sure it would need a buff.
About Bond, I always use if the survivor I'm playing has it. I may not pick myself up from the ground, nor be able to farm a teammate being camped, but I can have information that may avoid slugging with a killer using Infectious, as example. I will know where not to run in chases, or where to go in need of help or to achieve the objectives faster, or when to leave an area if the chases person is coming. I gladly use it in exchange for any of these perks, because it allows me to adapt my game super fast and coordinate myself to maximum efficiency.
I get your point about meta, but they're working on the other perks so that you can get different gameplays, especially fun ones.
I do appreciate their recent work on buffing perks, such as the upcoming Fixated buff. I applaud the devs for working on it and hope we see more changes soon.
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Speaking heavily from experience as a rank 1 Survivor, as well as using some basic thought experiments, Self-Care isn't just useful, it's an amazing perk which opens up a lot of opportunities. It's not the best perk in the game, but it's darn good.
People who say Self-Care is useless haven't considered the following:
- Self-Care isn't actually slower than normal healing in terms of time efficiency. (Think about it, two people healing for 16 seconds is a total of 32 seconds, which is the same as the 32 second one person heal)
- Most of the time, it's hard to find teammates. Yes, even with Bond, you'll sometimes have to look around for people to heal. This wastes time.
- Even if you know where teammates are, you have to move to them to heal. This wastes time if they're not directly next to a generator. (Even worse if you need to leave your generator to go get healed)
- Even if you know where your teammates are, and moving to them doesn't waste time, you now have two survivors in the same place. If the Killer shows up, neither of these survivors can do generators OR healing and the Killer gets huge mag pressure.
- Oh, and did you consider what to do if you have no teammates? I have made lots of clutch plays by Self-Caring to go get a hook save on the last other remaining survivor.
Self-Care is extremely versatile, and it's a great perk that I nearly always regret taking off whenever I do.
Anyone who says otherwise either misunderstands math, the game, or they're lying to themselves about its usefulness.
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@Maffin said:
@yoko123 You're just saying mine doesn't help, why don't you suggest something that works better? Okay you said ruin. My first thought was instead of the different speed skill-checks do ruin but I am trying to make something new up. I don't want to reuse stuff that killers can just use as perks. I know 3 levels still are just that, and I don't like it. But you tell me a better way then please. You never tested these. I tried testing it with what we already have. It was pretty damn hard and I messed a lot of skillchecks even with just half the effects. I have 800 hours and I usually hit great on ruin so that is not the issue. But you know what just for proof of concept I'll develop an application that shows off my idea. Ill get back here once it's finished.
I apologize if my message came across as hostile. I did not mean it that way.
Honestly, balancing generator speeds are extremely hard because you have lots of types of players to account for.
If you have a team that's dedicated to getting generators done efficiently, especially against a weak Killer with or without Ruin, there's almost nothing you can do to stop all the generators from being completed.
If you have a team that wants to loot chests, sabotage hooks, cleanse dull totems, or, worst of all, play immersed and hide from the Killer- generators are going to get done extremely slowly. Furthermore, if you're against a powerful Killer AND Ruin is active, all Survivors can die before a single generator gets done.
So it's hard to balance, because:
- If we makes generators harder, the gameplay experience gets worse for players who aren't focusing objectives hard.
- If we leave generators how they are, the gameplay experience gets worse for Killers playing against an objective focused team.
I have had 20+ minute games as Killer where no gens get done, playing as Clown with no Ruin.
I have also had games where all 4 Survivors escape in a few minutes with Ruin up the entire game.
But to answer your question, what do I think should be done about genrushing?
I personally have a few ideas.
Idea 1 is that we just increase generator times by 20 or 30 seconds.
This just makes gens slower, simply
Idea 2 is that kicking a generator causes instant regression, similar to Pop Goes The Weasel, like 3-5%
This makes breaking generators more worth it and gives the Killer better defensive options
Idea 3 is that whenever a generator is completed, all other generators cannot progress past 75% for 30-60 seconds.
This would still allow Survivors to make progress on generators, but would force them to hide or be chased for a short time in between each generator
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I don't think making skillchecks harder to do changes anything, especially with these tiny effects which only occasionally come into play for a short amount of time.
The main problem with generator speeds is that they're just too fast without Ruin.
80 seconds is a generator, okay? Now imagine this.
You spawn in as Killer.
You look for a Survivor. (Say this takes 20 seconds)
You start chasing them. You catch them in a bad area and get an early hit. (10 seconds)
They use their speedboost to run to better building and use a few pallets. (30 seconds)
You down them just as they're vaulting a pallet- You break the pallet, pick up the Survivor and go to the nearest hook. (10 seconds)
Your BBQ and Chili activates, revealing 3 Survivors each on a different generator. 70 seconds have already elapsed, so you have 10 seconds to stop 3 gens from popping. Even if you chase one, the other 2 gens are getting done. Good luck.
Basically- as long as the first Survivor found does okay (Not even good, just okay) in their chase, and you don't have Ruin, you're screwed out of 2-3 generators on your first hook.
Now let's imagine a different situation, where a Survivor totally potato's at the start of your match and you down and hook them in a mere 30 seconds.
A generator is going to pop 14 seconds from now. 2 people on a gen can have it done in 44 seconds without Ruin. Good luck.
Okay, so my primary point is that generators are just too fast if Survivors actually do them. Keep in mind, I haven't even mentioned great skillchecks. This can all be done simply with good skillchecks.
Your afflictions wouldn't really change anything, as people don't need to hit great skillchecks as long as there isn't Ruin
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Speaking from experience, it seems like Dead Hard has some sort of short delay before activating. I don't know if this is intentional or not- but I have gotten downed after getting Exhausted multiple times, usually when I'm going for a last second Dead Hard.
This makes me think that Dead Hard Exhausts you the moment you press the button, but has a short delay before actually starting the animation in which you're invincible.
That being said, I have, on one but only one occasion, activated Dead Hard and been hit during the animation.
So there has to be SOME issue with it.
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Lucky Break is one of those perks. A perk good enough for someone to think, "Hey, this could help me, let's put it on!" but not good enough for someone to replace other perks with it.
With that said, I agree the timer should be removed.
Like you said, Breakout is pretty much fine the way it is. It's situational, but I have saved and been saved by random teammates using this perk. QoL would be nice.
Any Means Necessary is kind of a joke right now. A Killer should be immediately destroying any safe pallets which get dropped (Ex. Shack Pallet) and will be mindgaming around unsafe pallets, which they'll likely break after downing you if the chase hasn't gone too far away from it.
So, in a best case scenario, Any Means Necessary lets you pick up a pallet so worthless the Killer entirely ignored it once every few minutes.
I'm not really sure what to do with Any Means Necessary, but it really needs a change.
Overall, I agree with your post. Yui's perks need changed
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Speaking from experience- Hex: Ruin is already a very powerful and valuable perk.
It definitely makes my Survivor games harder and 100% makes my Killer games easier.
Yes, sometimes you get unlucky and get a bad totem spawn, but that's the inherent risk of running such a powerful perk. Don't forget you can also get very lucky spawns.
If Hex: Ruin were to no longer be bound to a totem, it would require a considerable nerf to its raw power.
I'm sure a compromise could be reached, such as adding a timer or adjusting how Hex: Ruin functions, but as of right now, I think the perk is in a good place other than the fact that, for a lot of people, it often feels necessary in order to defend generators.
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I believe what you're describing is a trick Survivors use to activate their Sprint Burst when they need it.
To do this, you have to let your Exhaustion recover almost all the way, leaving just a split second of Exhaustion left, then start running.
You won't recover Exhaustion while you're running, so when you need to activate Sprint Burst, you just walk for 1 or 2 seconds, recovering your Exhaustion, then begin running again, activating Sprint Burst.
I understand your confusion, but the perk isn't broken, it does exactly what it's supposed to do.
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@MADPEPPERONI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/922241#Comment_922241
i posted this higher above a charges system like 4- 5 hooks mori anybody
Oh, so like the Killer needs to get 4 hooks before his Mori activates, then he can Mori anybody who has been hooked at least once?
I think it's a decent idea. It wouldn't change anything for Killers who hook all Survivors before starting to Mori, but it would stop the Killer from getting easy early-game momentum with fast kills.
I do think this would be a pretty good compromise for reducing the power of Ebony Moris while also maintaining the terror that they're known for. Definitely a noteworthy idea!
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@beatddb said:
I just read the tldr but:
The point of keys and moris is to shorten things up a little, by adding an 8 second interaction everything stays basically the same, just that survivors can't open the hatch in the face of the killer. This sounds right for me.
But in moris, the survivors are already on their death hook so it doesnt makes much difference. It just saves less than 10 seconds when they carry someone to the hook (sometimes not even that, because the mori animation can take longer than it takes going to a hook).
I'm not saying moris shouldnt be nerfed, but imo this would be a big big nerf.
You're right that Moris really wouldn't do much if Survivors were on their death hook anyways, and you're correct that Moris can often take longer than actually just picking up and hooking a Survivor.
One thing I mentioned in my post is that Moris would still help in certain situations, those being stopping Survivors from using DS or bodyblocking the hook, but even these are somewhat uncommon and pretty situational.
My primary idea is that burning an offering shouldn't grant a huge competitive advantage.
For example: Imagine if Survivors could bring an offering which allowed them to get hooked one additional time. Trying to get 4 hooks on every single Survivor to kill them as Killer would be extremely painful and often times Survivor's would escape before their 4th hook.
This isn't a perfect analogy, but to an extent, that's what Moris are to Survivors. A Survivor burns an offering and becomes considerably harder to kill. The Killer burns an offering and suddenly it becomes a extremely hard to avoid dying.
That's why I think the idea of Moris should be changed to just grant players a cool kill animation instead of giving the Killer an edge at winning.
Maybe there is a way to balance Moris so that they're not completely unfair but still accomplish their goal of increasing the Killer's power, but I haven't thought of one yet.