Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343122#Comment_2343122
Dead hard is supposed to be for distance though so idk why people are mad at it.
Like i said, it has no downside and no counterplay compared to every other exhaustion perk. Tell me, as a killer what should i do to stop someone for dead harding for distance? It's a similar complaint from killer players as survivor players complaints about spirit having no counterplay. You don't really have any good options when someone uses it that way.
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@Venzhas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343128#Comment_2343128
Second degree is only a temperature to you right ?
Please divert your negativity and toxicity to another thread and stay on topic. I'd be happy to engage in a discussion with you on dead hard. But whataboutisms are not helpful.
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@Wavy said:
Nah. Its fine just bait it out.
If that was why the perk was broken, it wouldn't be broken. The problem is not dead harding to dodge a hit. The problem is dead harding for distance, which has no counterplay.
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@KingFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343083#Comment_2343083
Bingo. Lots of people running =/= overperforming.
I agree, the reason people run BBQ is the bloodpoints, thrilling is a far better version of the perk that does more things.
In reality though, dead hard IS overperforming, my post above explains exhaustion perks and their differences.
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@Lord_Tony said:
it's clearly "overperforming" when literally all 4 survivors run it almost every single game.
A large majority use it.
It's just so much better than the rest of the exhaustion perks because it has no downside in comparison to the others. Dead harding to dodge a hit is fine but the "dead hard for distance" can extend a chase far more than any other exhaustion perk and has no counter. For example, right now we have:
- Sprint Burst
- Sprint burst can only be activated at the start of a chase, meaning the killer can break off of the chase and just go after someone else, or try to cut the survivor off somehow. In order to make it usuable in a chase, it must be 99'd, however then you can't do ANYTHING, because if you stop to heal, do a gen etc. you now ready it. Additionally you have to walk everywhere if you want to hold onto it, making you slower outside of the chase
- Lithe
- This one requires you to vault something, which means you aren't necessarily being efficient in a loop. If you want to hold onto lithe in a chase, you have to drop a pallet, which is a limited resource and carries it's own risks. Additionally, once you know the survivor has lithe, you can play around it and know now that they WANT to go through the vault, so you can loop a different way, or cut them off early since you know what their plan is.
- Smash Hit
- Unless the pallet is some really unsafe pallet, getting stunned is already a chase ender. This perk just makes getting pallet stunned to be even more of a chase ender. additionally it requires you to actually drop a pallet and get a stun. Both of which can be played around, as a killer, i can respect the pallet, and back off. Then when they see i do that, and just keep running i can react to that and no longer respect the pallet, creating our own little mindgame around it. Trying to go for a pallet stun can also be risky for a lot of different reasons depending on the killer
- Balanced Landing
- Balanced only works on a few parts of most maps, outside of that it is very map dependent. This means it won't always be readily available to you, and you are stuck to staying around a certain area if you want to use this perk, otherwise you might not get a chance to use it. Also, similar to Lithe, the killer can play around it, it becomes pretty obvious when you are going for that hill, which otherwise would be useless and actually bad for you.
- Head on
- Head on can't really be used in a chase unless paired with other perks. Additionally it gives you less distance than most other exhaustion perks. It's main extra function is that you can stun the killer that is carrying a survivor.
- Adrenaline
- I'd say the main function of this perk isn't really exhaustion related and is mostly done for the heal and the quick getaway. It also can only activate once per game and also only at the endgame, so it can't really be used to extend a chase.
- Dead Hard
- Then we come to dead hard. In theory the downside of dead hard is that it requires you to be injured. But in practice, this isn't actually a downside. Unlike the other main exhaustion perks, in which you give up some level of efficiency in one area to gain efficiency in another, dead hard has nothing but gains. If you are being chased, you are likely going to be injured at some point, meaning it has no downside. Additionally, you can activate it whenever you want, this is the only perk (outside of head on) that you can perfectly control when it activates. All of the others have some sort of condition that you need to play around or achieve in order to activate. Dead hard is just "press e". Dead hard for dodging a hit is actually fine, and has counterplay, just bait the dead hard, and then swing. Dead hard for distance though, has no counter, they just round a corner, press e, and suddenly they are at a pallet or window they otherwise would not have been able to make it to. There is literally no counterplay around that.
Ideally, to fix dead hard, i would do 1 of 2 things:
- Make it so you can't control exactly when it activates
- Make it so it actually has a downside.
If we want to make it have a downside, i would make it such that using it gives you a debuff that makes it take twice as long for you to be healed for like 60-90 seconds or something. This way it has an actual downside, as a killer, if i see someone dead hard, i now can drop chase with them and be confident that they are either going to be out of the game for a little while trying to heal somewhere, or that the next time i see them i can be sure that they will already be injured.
Another thing that could be done is changing what it does and how it activates. Since it is about being injured, what i would do is make it increase your movement speed when you get hit. This would be similar to what it is like when you get hit and use sprint burst at the same time, you get a super speed boost for a few seconds. If dead hard worked like this, then it has a downside, in that you CAN'T use it while injured. This means that if i drop chase now, again, i can be confident that you are going to spend some time off of the gens to heal, or on the flipside, if i run into you again injured, i can be sure that you DON'T have dead hard now.
- Sprint Burst
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@gendoss said:
I'm just really salty that you can earn free kills because of 1 perk that has no reasonable counterplay.
Rant over.
Imagine thinking a perk that literally has counterplay has no counterplay. Just do bones.
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@Itslat3ncy said:
I believe most killers who complain about gen speeds are the ones who either face camp or proxy camp you instead of actually trying to pressure gens early on in the match. Of course gens arent gonna pop when you dont even try to pressure them.
Thats why they think it's ok to use the excuse I only camped becuz of the gens. Not saying everyone does this, but I feel most do.
Just my opinion though.
It has nothing to do with camping, it is a simple math problem that does not work in the killer's favor.
If a survivor does absolutely nothing, and just holds w, doesn't drop pallets, doesn't vault windows, literally uses nothing but shift + w. It will take the killer 48 seconds to down that survivor. Now factor in the time it takes to find that survivor to even start the chase, and the time it takes to pick them up, find a hook, walk to it, then hook them. If the other 3 survivors are on gens (as they should be) you just lost 3 gens. Rinse and repeat a second or 3rd time, and you just lost the game. Now factor in that pallets, windows, vaulting, LoS blockers, perks like iron will etc. all exist. Suddenly that 48 seconds can easily become much higher. This is why the current meta for survivors is just to forget looping and to hold shift + w and camp pallets and drop them immediately without actually looping.
The gen speed to chase ratio is off because the game is designed in such a way to assume that survivors don't slam generators as fast as possible. The whole point of this game is for survivors to be afraid of the big scary killer. To be afraid to do gens, to hide, and sneak away. To do totems, to do chests in hopes of finding an item that might save them against that big scary killer. The problem is, the minute you stop "roleplaying" that, the game completely breaks down. Because the reality is the killer is not big and scary, and survivors shouldn't be scared. they shouldn't waste time doing totems or opening chests or hell, even healing most of the time. Those things take too much time, when you could just be slamming a gen.
This is why camping, tunneling and slugging are so common. You just flat out don't have the time to hook, so you slug. You need to slow the game down because it goes too fast so you tunnel a survivor out asap. You need the survivors off the gens so you camp, and hope they become overly altruistic.
Probably the best strategy for killers to counter this is to run:
Corrupt + Lethal Pursuer + Sloppy + Thana.
Try to land a couple of good hits on survivors with LP, chase your second or 3rd one and then camp them. With Thana they get slowed down on gens, with sloppy, they have to heal before they go for the save. With corrupt, if they just slam gens, you now have a 3 gen.
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@Lx_malice said:
Hey I'm not trying to call you out or devalue your post by any means, but I thought you were someone who advocated for Nurse nerfs as a Nurse player because you really did think she was too strong. I could be wrong and have you mistaken for someone else, but if not I'm curious on why the change of heart?
Again not trying to call you out or anything I'm literally a Nurse main myself. Just curious.
You didn't read me post very clearly did you? I'm calling out the hypocrisy on this board. Whenever someone talks about how survivors at the highest level, as proven by tournament play and depip squads, are far more powerful than killers are, the response is always "We shouldn't balance the game around high level, those are really rare". So, i'm stating that by that logic, if we balance the game for average players, then we need to look at the stats, and based on that nurse is the worst killer in the game and needs buffs.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Nurse is the worst killer in the game?!
Per the last released statistics, yes.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2336169#Comment_2336169
I think they're referring to the doubt meme:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/opbs2yrb-II/hqdefault.jpg
As for the topic that's another reason not to play solo. Killers enjoy treating solos like trash despite the fact most solos are giving them easy games that even a 5 year old could win.
And what am i supposed to do? The devs don't tell me ahead of time in the lobby that this is going to be a chill match, or that all 4 are solos and not a SWF sweat squad. Because of that, i have to assume everyone is a SWF sweat squad, or i get teabagged, clicky clicky and called racial slurs after the game. To be honest that last one happens regardless, but the point still stands.
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@Archon said:
Kill the key carrier early? Sorted.
And if you tunnel you lose 5 gens? Also killing the key carrier doesn't magically make the key disappear. In fact it makes the hatch spawn sooner.
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You can't have it both ways.
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@ITSCJ46 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317705#Comment_2317705
because it's not as simple as clicking your fingers and knowing where all of them are, it has legit taken teams 10 minutes to find all the totems nevermind cleansing them
Your rank is showing then. Survivors also get 16 perks among them, is it that hard to give up one of your 4 second chance perks to take 1 perk to get rid of totems or bring a map?
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@ThiccBudhha said:
But I have borrowed time, so, to your face I shall unhook.
Sure, then you double hit the guy that has BT, or better yet, wait out the 12 seconds. Then i'm tunneling again. My favorite is when the guy with BT body blocks. Like, if you want me to hit you again, i'll hit you. But i'm gonna keep hitting you.
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@nursewannabe said:
I wonder how many people that voted "high level gameplay" consider themselves "high level players" too
Because my bias makes me lean towards believing that it's mostly average killer players that got destroyed in a couple of matches by better-than-them average survivor players and expect nerfs to hand carry them even more
You'd be wrong.
What i actually expect the data to show, is that about 20% of the players want the game balanced around high level. Can you guess why that would be?
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@indieeden7 said:
Trust me, that 6% isn't exactly doing much. I love Spine Chill but the action speed bonus isn't as good as you're making it out to be.
Vault speed build would like to have a word with you.
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@ccactus623 said:
How broken would that make the game ? The current problem with the game is there is must pick perks especially for killer. It might get average perks used a bit more one thing this game needs is a new meta
Ah yes
BBQ + Undying + Ruin + Lethal Pursuer + Tinkerer + Pop
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@Seanzu said:
I'm more curious as to why everyones calling it an SSD Card.
Console players can't into PC parts.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334662#Comment_2334662
And I suppose to provide my side on what counts as "winning"
Killers: Kill at least one Survivor. The more you kill, and the more chases you win, the better you feel.
Survivors: At least have one Survivor escape that you assisted with. The more that escape, or the more it feels you assisted in the escape, the better you feel.
However, Killers are able to make partial progress with a single Kill. Survivors on the other hand must complete all Generators, or have all but one die in order to experience their "win" condition.
This seems problematic.
If that is what is winning for a killer, then they need to fix the pip system. Right now if you only kill 3 you probably get brutal, and if you kill 2 or less you see that big "ENTITY DISPLEASED". I understand that it isn't something they necessarily want to go by or anything, but it certainly doesn't make you feel any better when you see that.
But, ultimately, the first step is for the devs to officially explain what a "win" is for both sides. In the case of survivors, they also need to explain if they "win" together, or if one one can win and the other 3 lose, for example.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334655#Comment_2334655
If the survivors using teamwork and killers would be equal, then survivor would by necessity be the harder role, because the killer doesn't have to rely on the good judgement and coordination of randos to perform well. The Survivors do.
If nothing else, you can't get a Dwight crouching in the corner the entire game as your teammate when you play Killer.
Thus we get to the crux of the problem. By necessity in game design, to be balanced, the 4 players by themselves must individually be weaker than the 1, other wise the game isn't fair. But in order for that to happen, they need to have solid teamwork and work together to make things happen. The thing i don't understand is, this formula works perfectly fine for MOBAs. MOBAs require significant teamwork in order to execute things effectively. A single player can't win the game for your team, however, a single player CAN lose the game for your whole team.
Those games work fine and are some of the most played games in the world.
At the end of the day though, this game NEEDS to be made fair. Research has shown that even in monkeys and rats, if the games they play aren't fair, they just stop playing the game with the other monkeys and rats.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334655#Comment_2334655
If the survivors using teamwork and killers would be equal, then survivor would by necessity be the harder role, because the killer doesn't have to rely on the good judgement and coordination of randos to perform well. The Survivors do.
If nothing else, you can't get a Dwight crouching in the corner the entire game as your teammate when you play Killer.
Not necessarily. In our example, if a killer makes a mistake, it is 4x more punishing than if an individual survivor makes a mistake.
In our comparison to MMOs. Let's use FF14 as an example. Generally if you stand in a mechanic or get hit by something you can avoid, you take damage, but you also get a debuff that makes you take 10% more damage. The first time it might not be so bad, your healer heals you up (which makes them spend mana a diminishing resource as the fight goes on). But, if you make a second mistake, now you take 10% more damage, and it hurts a lot more and you get another stack so you take 20% more damage. Healer now has to spend even MORE mana, and more than the first time to heal you. The 3rd time, now you take so much damage from the debuff that you just immediately die, now the healer has to spend 25% of their mana bar ressing you, then more healing you. Now you are starting to really get the pressure on. Another mistake might cost you, the healer might run out of mana and then the tank dies. They might not be able to res the DPS the next time they make a mistake, meaning that you have less DPS, and the boss has an 8 minute enrage timer where it just 1 shots your whole party after 8 minutes. So you need that DPS to happen at a certain rate.
On the flip side. If you use that mechanic/ability which has a long cooldown and all of the party members avoid it, it now is on cooldown for a while and you can only auto attack for 30 seconds. This gives the party time to get some damage in on you safely without worrying too much about mechanics. In fact during this time even healers will often DPS.
Now factor in that as a raid boss you usually have 5+ different abilities and mechanics. As a human controlled one, you can change the order you use them, you can change how you use them, which part of the arena you target, which player you send stuff out to etc. This is where the teamwork should come in play for the party in our case, they have to work together to overcome these elements which, unlike an MMO raid boss, are not always the same every time because they are controlled by a human opponent. This further gets messed with due to the introduction of perks which even if you are the same killer you might run a different build.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334642#Comment_2334642
So Survivors should need more effort to "beat" the Killer. You intend to make it far easier to play Killer. Good.
This presents a problem, Killer is now a much easier role and more solo's want to play Killer instead of Survivor.
How do you balance this?
That's not what i said though, survivors should require teamwork. In your situation, if killers don't want to play the game because it isn't fair, you have 4 people sitting in queue doing nothing. You can't have it both ways.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334600#Comment_2334600
Recall that this game is also a 1v4 asymmetrical game. Typically each side is not interacting with the entirety of the other at all times given a match.
Think of it this way. I feel that asymmetrical games of 1v{any amount} are like an MMO raid boss fight.
The 1 guy, is the raid boss, and the other people need to work together to bring the raid boss down. In essence, this is what these types of games are. The individual guys by themselves, are not able to take on the raid boss. You can't solo a raid boss, it'll just kill you, you need a healer. But you can't just DPS them down, you die to fast, you need a tank too. But also the boss has adds, so you need some sort of crowd control element to keep the adds under control, busy, or killed. Plus the boss has many different mechanics you need avoid. If a person on your team goes down, you probably are going to lose the fight, unless you are lucky and one of the DPS went down and the healer can rez them, but often times that comes at a cost to the healer, like a large amount of mana, so now you have to be extra careful.
This is DBD. The problem with this is, in the case of the raid boss, you are playing against an AI controlled opponent. There is no human on the other side. So, you come up with a strategy as a team to fight that raid boss, you execute it, and as long as you do, you win 100% of the time. DBD has the same problem. If you get an organized team of survivors in play, they execute their strategy, and they win 100% of the time. This is without any sort of input from the killer. The problem of course, is that the killer, unlike the raid boss, is NOT an AI controlled opponent. There is a human on the other side of that.
Now what if the raid boss could at some point just say "i'm not going to attack your tank, i'm going to go after your healer". THAT should be how DBD works. The raid boss can be like "i see what you are doing there taunting me tank, i see that healer is keeping you alive, i'm going to go after them instead" Now you need some way to deal with that, maybe the guy who CCs can slow down the boss, and the healer can kite him around, maybe the raid boss sees that, and sends his adds after the guy slowing him down. Its countering the counter of my counter of your counter and so on. A back and forth, tug of war that allows both sets of players to exert their will and plan and strategies and execute those strategies.
As it stands now, dbd has the same strategy for every killer. Hold Shift + w, camp and immediately drop pallets. The handful of killers you can't do that to "Nurse/Spirit/Blight" are the ones survivors complain about that need a nerf. Why do you think that is? The current state of DBD is such that the raid boss is too weak, its like you are fighting the raid boss from the last expansion when the max level was 60 and now you are level 70. You don't need to execute a good strategy anymore, because you outlevel the boss and it's mechanics, you can just execute the same boring "tank and spank" strategy and ignore everything they do.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334587#Comment_2334587
Should Killer or Survivor should require the most effort at high-level play?
They should both require effort. Specifically survivors should be more about teamwork.
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@latinfla4 said:
...then you can nerf camping and tunneling since a second objective for survivors seems off the table🤑
Basekit noed would actually help solve many problems. For a variety of reasons.
Survivors would stop complaining about it because "JUST DO BONES" would be something you would want to do every single game. They can stop complaining about assuming killers have noed, because EVERY killer has NOED. As part of that, it makes the game slow down a bit, because survivors will have to either cleanse the totems or deal with it. It creates a secondary objective with a good risk/reward ratio. Survivors can take the risk, and slam the gens, but then they deal with noed. Or, they can spend time cleansing totems to avoid it, but then of course they aren't on gens and the game is slowed down naturally a bit. Additionally, since noed is in ever game, survivors are more incentivized to carry a totem tracking perk, or a map. At least one on their team, so they can cleanse the totems.
I have long thought that they should use dull totems as a way to slow the game down, by making them do some other effect like slow gen speeds or something.
As for making CI base kit, that i disagree with. With my time of running Lethal Pursuer since it came out, it is clear the biggest problem there is spawns. I can have some games, where all 4 survivors spawn next to each other slightly on the side of the map, and other ones where all 4 survivors spawn on the opposite side of the map completely spread out from each other, 3 on different gens and 1 spawned on my hex. It is ridiculous to watch 3 survivors start repairing 3 different gens before LP is even up while the 4th cleanses your hex.
Spawns should setup such that every survivor always spawns on the opposite end of the map from the killer, on top of a generator that can only be repaired by 1 person. Hex perks, and totems for that matter, should never spawn next to a generator or out in the open.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334581#Comment_2334581
Is DBD competitive or casual?
Competitive. Because MMR is coming, and is not optional. If you want casual that is what KYF is for, or alternatively they could make separate queues, a ranked and unranked. They could even make unranked have different things like other games. For example in CS:GO you get free armor and other things in unranked play.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334544#Comment_2334544
And what is "balance" in DBD?
2k/2e average at the highest level of play in games that last for on average 8-10 minutes.
Or, if the devs want, they can define a different win condition. But ideally it should start by them saying:
- This is how a survivor "wins" a game
- This is how a killer "wins" a game.
Then from there we can balance the game around the idea that survivors should "win" 50% of the time. they could also define a draw
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334284#Comment_2334284
The games you mention are not asymmetrical in the manner that DBD is. The "meat and potatoes" of each game you mentioned is symmetrical. R6S/CS:GO each rely on FPS mechanics and mainly relies on your ability to point and shoot. And while Natural selection has asymmetrical team loadouts, each team is performing the same objective of killing the opposing teams bases.
My point is that using them as an example that balancing against high level play is the way to go isn't really relevant to DBD.
So the question becomes what the definition of "balanced" should be for a game like DBD.
Again, Asymmetrical games can be balanced though. It isn't an excuse.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334268#Comment_2334268
So while the game has tremendous horizontal gameplay variation across the teams, the overall gameplay loop shared by each team is relatively the same with a different presentation.
In DBD, Survivors and Killers goals are completely different. The Survivors are not trying to kill the Killers, they're trying to escape, and the Killers are not trying to complete generators, they're trying to Kill all Survivors before they escape. They may share assets of each others gameplay loop, but each side is designed to approach it differently.
The closest FPS comparison that I can really think of is Left 4 Dead's versus mode, where the Survivors need to try and complete the level, and Infected need to stop the Survivors.
Either way, i fail to see your point. Asymmetrical games can be balanced.Either way, i fail to see your point. Asymmetrical games can be balanced.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334157#Comment_2334157
Do both teams share the same goal? Is it to wipe out the other team?
Kind of?
The marines are supposed to kill the alien's heart, which is basically their "base" but they can have multiple hearts/expansions throughout the map.
The aliens need to basically kill all of the marines + the commander and their spawners (which are placed by the commander like an RTS building they can build multiple of).
Either way, i fail to see your point. Asymmetrical games can be balanced.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2331794#Comment_2331794
Problem, the core gameplay loop of all the games you just mentioned boil down to: FPS Kill the opposition. That statement is true regardless of what side you are on.
Depending on if you play Survivor/Killer your core gameplay loop is notably different in DBD. Even if you consider the Chase to be the core gameplay loop in DBD, each side is required to approach it differently.
The core gameplay loop of Natural Selection is "FPS Kill"?
In that game, one team is a group of marines that use guns, another is a group of aliens that are generally melee/hit and run style things that can fly or climp on walls or teleport. On top of that, the marines have a commander that is playing an RTS instead.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2333348#Comment_2333348
You know, i´m a red rank solo survivor. Most of the time i have decent matches. Its only when people disconnect or suicide, because they don´t like the killer/map or whatever. That ruins the game for me.
But those happend like once or twice in ten matches before the RE chapter released. Now its way more. Is that because killers are OP? Sure not!
People are just salty and try to blame their own shortcomings on other players.
It's like that because DC penalties are off right now.
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@Troman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2332976#Comment_2332976
No, sorry, I'm a pro survivor and I'm busy holding W and making killers rage-quit right now. No time for math.
No time for math? No problem.
If a survivor does nothing but holds w, drops no pallets, vaults no windows, uses no perks, just shift + w in a straight line. It will take the killer 48 seconds to down them. Factoring in the time it takes to find that survivor at the start, pick the survivor up, walk to a hook, hook them, you probably took around 70-80 seconds. Here is where i'm going to make you do some work. What else takes 80 seconds in this game?
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2332640#Comment_2332640
If a survivor stops playing, the survivors lose. If the killer stops playing, the killer loses. Same thing.
Also, killers are going AFK after grabbing the crown in most matches. It's exactly the same as last year, which honestly makes no sense seeing as these crowns have literally no value.
The difference though, is if the killer stops moving, he only loses for himself. If the survivor stops moving, they lose the game for 3 other people too.
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@Kaitsja said:
The game should be balanced around average skilled players. Balance for the very top, and you get problems like in Overwatch where everything is about playing the game a very specific way and fun isn't a factor.
I personally prefer games to be fun than to be purely competitive. Nurse is fine, since there is plenty of room for counterplay because you are getting constant information off her.
Spirit, on the other hand, needs counterplay and shouldn't be left untouched. Especially Stridor Spirit.
So, tru3talent has posted many videos talking about how to counter the spirit and showing how well he can play against one, and often escapes against one. The answer the community gives, is that the spirit he went against was "bad". So i ask you. If it should be balanced around average skilled players, why do we need to nerf spirit, when she really is only good in the hands of killers who are good? You can't maintain both statements, they a logically in conflict with one another.
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@Troman said:
This thread is so hilarious, please don't let it die.
Did you now that survivors hold W with their middle finger? Some even with their palm reversed. We need to talk about it in a YT video.
Did you see my post about the math?
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@BigKuhfahl said:
How come this game all of a sudden have more Toxicity and Try Hard players than ever within the time of this game is out and it just seems even worse because of the 5th Anniversary like I don't expect farming but holy hell it's just been a cake waster it's like killers also don't want blood points like my last few games before coming to the community I've had a Trapper, Oni, Wraith and a Deathsliger down everyone and let us bleed out no hooking like what is the deal with that the game isn't competitive
Stop being a scrub, and educate yourself:
https://www.sirlin.net/ptwAn excerpt from the book:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definition of playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.
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@Zokenay said:
So was facing a Freedy in Ormond.
He chased first guy for quite a bit to get one 1 done, he finds me, and gives a short chase which he leaves, big mistake since i found his Devour right after, (didnt knew at the time but he had "Make your Choice" so he left me to go after the rescuer), starts chasing that guy long enough for 2 gens to pop at the same time and soon a third one from my part, which would have left only 1 gen to go.
The guy simply quits, i do feel a bit sad about him, we did destroyed him quite badly.
Weird flex, but ok.
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@Bran said:
you had me until you started you said "this is how the trial should go".
but seriously. it doesnt matter what level your or the survivors are because the loops and pallets will waste your time no matter what. so even if your like the best...it doesnt matter in the slightest.
I think that's the point of this post, the chase to gen time ratio is heavily skewed toward survivor. Especially when shift + w and camp pallet meta is so strong right now.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2332632#Comment_2332632
That's literally no different from killers grabbing a crown and going AFK.
That's not entirely true, but also, i very much doubt that killers do that.
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@DetailedDetriment said:
Survivors should just receive the same treatment as killer. Collect the crown and be done; no escape catch.
@TatsuiChiyo said:
I'd be fine with just getting thw crown in game unlocks it, basically what Killer's have to do but for Survivors as well.
If they did this, then survivors would just grab the crown and kill themselves.
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@Sluzzy said:
The majority is wanting the game balanced for average players which is a positive sign. But it is FAR from that. Average survivors are hardly ever seeing a win.
Sluzzy...
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@themirrortwin said:
Personally, I hate high level survivors. They abuse the game. They've been trained to! It is so frustrating.
But, fundamentally, if we balance at the high ranks, then tons of survivors (the majority of survivors are bad and can't even do the basic loops) will die. The game will be fair for skilled survivors, but for the average survivor player who is not good (70-80%), they will suffer.
I wish there was a fix for this, but it isn't clear.
Can you explain how it is that it will hurt the "average player" in any way? Here is what i'm saying.
Lets say for example, you have a loop that is extremely strong in the hands of a high level player and they can waste minutes of a killers time. Now let's say another survivor who isn't so good, goes down in 20 seconds at this loop. If you nerf the loop to make it so the high level player can't waste minutes of a killers time at this loop anymore, it will be fine. The survivor who goes down in 20 seconds is still going to go down in 20 seconds. It won't negatively affect them.
Here as a bit from a video that explains this in detail, granted it is for TF2, the premise is the same.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=203s -
@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2332470#Comment_2332470
DS was nerfed... ######### are you talking about?
Yeah, but you still assume it, unless you saw them work a gen or heal someone or somthing.
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@ChurchofPig said:
Get ready for NOED + No Way Out + Blood Warden + Remember Me, yikes.
I'm all for No Way Out being buffed but I think buffing the timer so you can have a gate blocked for a minute max AND making it so it doesn't activate till someone touches a door is a little extreme.
Except, look at your build there. Every single one of the perks does nothing until the last generator is completed. That means for the entire rest of the game, you are playing with 0 perks. That sounds pretty fair to me. If the killer is running this build and not a bunch of gen defense, you should have plenty of time to "just do bones" as it were.
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@Evilhorst said:
Is anyone else really concerned about this?
I usually am more of the side of not nerfing killer related things. Noed always has been one of the things i think should be reworked. I disagree with the "just do bones" argument as it simply consumes too much time on higher level play. It might be a different story with counterforce in the game, we will see. I still am really worried about this though. It seems really really powerful.
Why can't survivors just do bones? Killers have to assume survivors have DS and not tunnel them, or assume they have BT and not hit them off the hook. Why can't survivors assume totems and do them? The game is balanced around survivors not slamming the gens as hard as they do.
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@Evilhorst said:
Is anyone else really concerned about this?
I usually am more of the side of not nerfing killer related things. Noed always has been one of the things i think should be reworked. I disagree with the "just do bones" argument as it simply consumes too much time on higher level play. It might be a different story with counterforce in the game, we will see. I still am really worried about this though. It seems really really powerful.
So, what you're saying is, we might have a viable build for killers that focuses on the endgame instead of stacking 3 gen defense perks?
I think it's a step in the right direction. And i plan on trying out
NWO + NOED + RM + BBQ (for bloodpoints lel)
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@DrewpyCheekz said:
survivors don't need a nerf at all. not saying killers do, but the kill rate across the entire game with every killer at all ranks is still like 75%. throw the part of the community that put up with killer's lack of consideration a bone.
That's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about the top players, the ones who play tournaments. It's pretty clear which side is the dominate one when you look at those.
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@xEa said:
Its been ages since i created one and i thought why not redo it just for fun.
What would you change?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OYHFV0Z97A9T/my-image-2821-29.png
Ah, i found my old one;
I'd probably slot Nemesis into low "Bad" High "Terrible"