Rebel_Raven
Rebel_Raven
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Yeah, I wish killers could get the stick out of their butts.
The survivors could unclench some, too. -
Glad there's some beacons of light posting.
Something about this event puts me in the giving mood.
I make the offerings of Pustula Petals in hopes everyone walks out with some progress on the event if they want it, be they killer or survivor.I started a trial as a survivor, and saw one other survivor bail just before the trial started. Like super last second on the countdown.
2 DCed after I guess filling their vials.
So it's just me and Billy, and practically nothing is done, aside from filling my vial. Something like that.
I'm like... "hell with it." Run out there, get near an untapped hook, run into the Billy. I let'em hook me.
Really happy that once the vial is corked, it doesn't drain.I generally hope that the killer doesn't waste hooking me on a normal hook, and can work that stick out of their butts.
If I'm harvesting, chill out. Might even be inclined to give a hook for the time.Hope survivors can deal with harvesters, because they aughta run into them. Stop and smell the flowers!
As it stands, depending on the pace the survivors set, I just wanna use the special hooks. After that, I'll chase, and what not, but I'm not going to be mad if you escape.
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I get it sporadically. Thought it was something on my end. Guess not. It's eating into my vial filling time, and my last nerve!
I was hoping to relax, play, earn at least the huntress, and Claudette outfits, or at least make progress, but nope. -
Yeah, I've gotten a few flashlights in the blood web. Souvenirs! Huzzah!
I need to luck out and get some Halloween toolboxes, though. -
@ShuyaKhan said:
Rebel_Raven said:@ShuyaKhan said:
Rebel_Raven said:
I absolutely will not swf with them to take down a killer. The game is NOT balanced for communications outside of perks, and emotes. It breaks the game. End of. New killers running into that time and time again might get discouraged as badly as a new survivor vs a pro killer. But I'll push about only as hard as I have to. I'm new myself, and not super great. I'm pretty casual, too. Not 4k crazed at all, though I may slug to try and deny a hatch play if I even remember to. I don't relish curb stomping people as a killer or survivor.
I feel like I want a fair shake in either role, and I don't mind extending that courtesy to others.
That may be your end of it but you can definitely have a different experience by having a group of pripple talking. That’s why it’s called “survive with friends”. This game is also tutored for killers to win more often than not. The killer getting two kills, even a kill, can end up receiving Brutal Killer remarks just for playing the game actively. You need to play the game to get better. That’s the truth.
The game is in no way balanced for SWF. At all. You cannot convince me otherwise. SWF in itself isn't the issue, though.
It's "innocent" comments like "Oh, crap! It's the huntress at the barn!" that sour it.
The other SWF now know who the killer is without having seen the killer, and can adapt. They now know where the killer is, and can avoid the area.
Now imagine constant updates like that?
Then there's the high efficiency SWFs. 3 people with toolboxes, or maybe a map in there (probably Claudettes), and a Meg with a flashlight, or maybe a med kit in bright colors.
Meg player : "Ok, pop gens, I'll distract the killer." Wanders out into the open. Sees killer. Teabags. Might even flashlight. Chase starts. "I have Trapper at the barn, and I'm lopping him." Pallet drops on the killer. Flashlights while the killer breaks the pallet blinding them. Teabags at the flailing killer. More chase.
Meanwhile the Claudettes all swarm gens, avoiding the barn, and knock them out in seconds.
Meg Player: "Trapper lost me. Headed for the shack. Lit hex, north west corner."
other 3 players are long gone from the generators near there, and start working elsewhere by the time the trapper gets there. They also know where a Totem perk is.
Meg player updates the other 3 the entire time of where the killer is if not looping the killer as the decoy.
The gens are done in about 3 minutes. The gates are open at 4 minutes. They escape.
SWFs gives immense power to the players, and most people are too irresponsible with those powers, or will willingly abuse them. I've been on the receiving end of similar to that way too often. If it wasn't for the fact that I learned why it happened, and why it was so different from non SWFs, I might have just left the game entirely.
I’m not sure how to respond to having the general function of the game explained to me but I’ll respond with this:
I hear with how rough that is, but it sounds to me that they are playing the game? I’m not going to say there aren’t any bs moments but Killers need to learn how to use their time if one survivor is going to take up all your time.
One sided notions like these usually lead to someone saying “they need to take out SWF” which is really Would not fix any issue. More dedicated players will simply team up before the game starts up if that was the case or just play with similar traits you described.
I have a video with a Quentin who I couldn’t hit at all cuz he 360d me nonstop and oh boy the flashlights. They were probably swf, or they might not have been. But it was rough and the same script happened that you spelled out for me and I got a 3k. Different experiences imo. Thanks for the input.
And there's the problem! Voice chat, or text chat is not a "general function of the game." Especially not in the middle of a trial, and especially voice chat. Communication that easy isn't part of the game at all mid trial.
That's some pretty noxious tactics in playing the game.
It robs the killer of a lot of power by, as someone else said, giving the survivors a ton of free, extra perks.Against a new killer? The killer is pretty screwed. As often as I see SWFs? I'd be surprised if they stayed killers long.
I don't feel like you're adequately introduced to the hell an SWF can be to vs. I'd like it if you did more research, either on youtube, or playing against them more.
You can actually get all 5 generators done in about 3 minutes, and have the doors open in 4 minutes with coordination. I've seen the video on youtube.SWF was originally a private mode, not a main game mode, and the main game mode wasn't built around it, and it still isn't.
Necessity required it being added (survivors complaining), and pandora's box opened with it.Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying to get rid of SWF!
As much as I hate the abuse of it, I'm an old gamer, and I know anyone with a lick of sense can just have their pals push ready at the same time, and hope to end up in the same lobby without SWF.
SWF without chat on top of it might be closer to fair, or if the players can control themselves and not have recon on the killer the entire trial.
Do I trust any SWFs that enter my lobby, though? Not a chance.Like I said, I'm a relatively new killer. I'm not super competitive. If I didn't understand the impact SWFs could have, I'd probably have given up by now.
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@ShuyaKhan said:
Rebel_Raven said:I absolutely will not swf with them to take down a killer. The game is NOT balanced for communications outside of perks, and emotes. It breaks the game. End of.
New killers running into that time and time again might get discouraged as badly as a new survivor vs a pro killer.
But I'll push about only as hard as I have to. I'm new myself, and not super great. I'm pretty casual, too. Not 4k crazed at all, though I may slug to try and deny a hatch play if I even remember to.
I don't relish curb stomping people as a killer or survivor.
I feel like I want a fair shake in either role, and I don't mind extending that courtesy to others.That may be your end of it but you can definitely have a different experience by having a group of pripple talking. That’s why it’s called “survive with friends”. This game is also tutored for killers to win more often than not. The killer getting two kills, even a kill, can end up receiving Brutal Killer remarks just for playing the game actively. You need to play the game to get better. That’s the truth.
The game is in no way balanced for SWF. At all. You cannot convince me otherwise. SWF in itself isn't the issue, though.
It's "innocent" comments like "Oh, crap! It's the huntress at the barn!" that sour it.
The other SWF now know who the killer is without having seen the killer, and can adapt. They now know where the killer is, and can avoid the area.Now imagine constant updates like that?
Then there's the high efficiency SWFs. 3 people with toolboxes, or maybe a map in there (probably Claudettes), and a Meg with a flashlight, or maybe a med kit in bright colors.
Meg player : "Ok, pop gens, I'll distract the killer." Wanders out into the open. Sees killer. Teabags. Might even flashlight. Chase starts. "I have Trapper at the barn, and I'm lopping him." Pallet drops on the killer. Flashlights while the killer breaks the pallet blinding them. Teabags at the flailing killer. More chase.Meanwhile the Claudettes all swarm gens, avoiding the barn, and knock them out in seconds.
Meg Player: "Trapper lost me. Headed for the shack. Lit hex, north west corner."
other 3 players are long gone from the generators near there, and start working elsewhere by the time the trapper gets there. They also know where a Totem perk is.
Meg player updates the other 3 the entire time of where the killer is if not looping the killer as the decoy.The gens are done in about 3 minutes. The gates are open at 4 minutes. They escape.
SWFs gives immense power to the players, and most people are too irresponsible with those powers, or will willingly abuse them. I've been on the receiving end of similar to that way too often. If it wasn't for the fact that I learned why it happened, and why it was so different from non SWFs, I might have just left the game entirely.
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It -is- annoying. I'm torn on wanting it to not work on hooked survivors, and being ok with it as is.
I wasn't sure for a while if it did work on hooked survivors so I patrolled quite a lot.
Of course most survivors don't realize they have time before the second phase instead of having to go immediately, or even in groups, so patrolling usually pays off anyhow.
No, I don't have bbq and chili. Supplying a game plan that requires a perk doesn't help much like that. -
I absolutely will not swf with them to take down a killer. The game is NOT balanced for communications outside of perks, and emotes. It breaks the game. End of.
New killers running into that time and time again might get discouraged as badly as a new survivor vs a pro killer.
But I'll push about only as hard as I have to. I'm new myself, and not super great. I'm pretty casual, too. Not 4k crazed at all, though I may slug to try and deny a hatch play if I even remember to.
I don't relish curb stomping people as a killer or survivor.
I feel like I want a fair shake in either role, and I don't mind extending that courtesy to others. -
Is it the riddle box?
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Wow this sounds like a cry for free unhookings.
If you want to avoid getting camped, try not to be a really good decoy/nuisance, or find a way to overcome their desire to secure a kill.
I mean of you're out there sabotaging hooks, flash lighting them, looping them tons, body blocking, etc. They will want to see you out of the way.
Also if you're close to having 5 gens done, or have them done, or the gates open, why would they leave? You can't pressure them with generators, and the survivors are low on objectives. Altruism, or escape is about all that's left.
It especially doesn't help if the killer hasn't had much luck in game. If they don't feel like they can catch you in time, they will make you escape or come to them.
Penalties to ranking up won't help. Here's a crazy idea. Reward them for leaving the hook. And I don't mean perks. Any idea that says "well, just use (insert perk name)" won't work because not everyone has the perk, or has the perk on the killer they want.
You still have people who will do it just because, or they got rewarded enough by altruistic hook swarmers, but you will reduce camping.
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That was just a PTB thing. It didn't make it into the main game because it was deemed unfair.alivebydeadight said:@Peanits said:
Short answer, because if you just close the hatch, the game turns into the hide and seek world championship. The killer NASCARs around the map checking generators, the survivor hides and waits for an opportunity that never comes. If they touch a generator, the killer is going to hear it and know they're close.It's a stalemate and it's fun for nobody. I'd rather just take my win and let them have the hatch and move on with my day, rather than searching every inch of the map for the last guy.
I thought that if killer closed hatch the devs made it to where all gens get completed and exits become powered and must be activated and all end game perks activate
Sort of wondering if it should have been a thing regardless. -
Probably agitation, too.purebalance said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Between the survivors fighting over the limited spawns, and the killer after them, I'm sure it'll be fun.Killers all running Iron Grasp because they keep dropping people trying to get the hooks.
Survivors might be looking at boil over in a new light now. -
Between the survivors fighting over the limited spawns, and the killer after them, I'm sure it'll be fun.
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Catchem, or they out played you. You might have just got the 3 weaker links.
It's not free. 2 gens have to be done, they have to dodge you (how easy do you make that?), and they have to find it before you do.
#########, if you're so great just kill all of them before they do 2 gens.
Do some recon, find the hatch before it's an issue.
Slug the last 2. Why play to the rules of survivors? It's easier to counter than a totem hex.
Why are some killers, largely the ones that complain about the hatch, so damn sure of themselves that they will catch the last person that they ignore the hatch play potential, and keep letting it be an option to begin with?
Do you even have an idea where the last one is before you hook the third?
Hatch is fine, bluntly. Most survivors don't even know what it is. I catch a lot of them ignoring it for assorted reasons.
I've gotten caught many times trying to find it, and escaped many times.
As a killer I've gotten overzealous and let the hatch become an option, and some escape.
Just because you catch 3 doesn't make you entitled to the 4th.
I'm more tired of the people complaining about the hatch, really. -
That's what she said!Orion said:@DeadByFlashlight said:
priorities
Smaller things are easier to load. Just saying.
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It's not crazy at all to me.
It's pure pvp, and some people only play one side, or mostly one side.
When they have trouble they consider their sides point of view, and not the others.
It annoys the other side.
It makes people draw lines and split into 2 major tribes.
There's moderates, sure, but mostly people on one side or the other.
Happens in almost everything. -
Listen for moans, look for blood (bloodhound might help. Effing wraiths and their uber tracking), and look for the button prompt, I guess.
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Then it sounds like you'll risk getting hit through the pallet, which I'm ok with.Ramxenoc445 said:
Yeah you're right. But if you don't break it I'm just gonna use it till you break it or bait me with itRebel_Raven said:Starting to get the impression that pallets are for getting distance, and running away as opposed to looping the killer. Vault, maybe get hit, use the opportunity to run away.
Not circle chase for ages. There's long obstacles, and maybe thick trees for that, yeah?
Risk and reward. -
Starting to get the impression that pallets are for getting distance, and running away as opposed to looping the killer. Vault, maybe get hit, use the opportunity to run away.
Not circle chase for ages. There's long obstacles, and maybe thick trees for that, yeah?
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Because doing gens is way more important than kiting a killer.
Don't get me wrong, a good decoy is important, but a good decoy alone won't get 4 people through the gate. It requires gens being done.
Gens are the objective.
It's criminal if the gen workers don't get a shitton of points. -
Like just sitting there, waiting, or does this count the killer backing out at the lobby?
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Slug the last 2, and kill the hatch play. Simple.
It's not free. The team needs at least 2 gens done, and some survivors will not do them.
The survivor has to know where the hatch is, and get to it before the killer does, or outwit the killer if the killer is there.
Then the killer can just stand on it, and wait for the survivor to do something dumb, or use the environment to their advantage.
The killer has to be overzealous enough to even let the hatch open without being prepared for it
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Hey, I think we got some good ones anyhow. No worries.
Stakeout, and Dying light especially got my attention since I haven't bought Myers, or Tapp.
I feel like windows of opportunity is solid, and so is enduring.
Most will level Billy, but some want to level other killers first. -
If they're looking to make a trial devoid of fun for the killer, it could be considered toxic, yeah?alivebydeadight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Any of Neo dodging swfs, and/or common swf loadouts like flashlight teams, squadettes, 3+ toolboxes, etc?toxic teams you mean
It would be like someone running NOED with the ebony mori, maybe with a 5 blink nurse, or so forth.
People equipped to push for a game about 5 minutes long, or less?
If a killer can run a toxic loadout, survivors sure can, too.
Swfs popping in, almost guaranteed to be on voice/text comms, relaying Intel that only their perks should tell them, and more, and coordinating effortlessly with each other is practically game breaking.
And that's just what the killer can initially see.
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Have you seen most of the anti-Bioweapons people fight?
Chris punches multi ton boulders, and moves them. He'd probably shoryuken a nurse, or something. And you're welcome for that mental image.
Leon is a master at gun fu, and unarmed combat.
Most of the crew is used to fighting charging people with chainsaws, so Billy, and Leatherface would probably get a rude surprise after they miss, and get decked by people used to it.
The Entity usually picks people who aren't masters of combat, IMO, Bill aside, probably.
Especially unarmed combat experts who's physical feats would turn a lot of the more grounded killers (Billy, Huntress, Trapper, LF, hag, etc.) into a pretzel.Anyone remember the Resident Evil Outbreak series? The survivors from there seem way more grounded.
Pretty much no match vs a Bioweapon, and maybe not another armed person.
Way less popular, I'd guess, though.Bioweapons galore, though. The killer is supposed to be scary, and physically overpowering.
Imagine being a licker, and having some vertical game? Leaping out of trees, or off houses, or off jungle gyms? Using the tongue and claws as a weapon? -
Kinda torn now.
I love trying to be stealthy because I don't have uber reflexes so I can't juke like a crackhead, or home in on pallets like some crazed beaver, never mind use them as efficiently as others.
I don't like sprint burst because I can't couple it with urban evasion just yet, and I don't like burning it every time I want to move at a reasonable rate.
Doing gens, and not being seen is my bread, and butter.
My Evasion is #########-tier, IMO. Especially with Lithe being nailed to the wall with less to no windows in jungle gyms.I can't say I gen rush, yet I run Deja Vu plenty (It usually shows gens across the map anyhow) but most of my time is spent trying to position myself so I can do gens in peace.
I prioritize gens, yet I generally am slow/cautious enough that I wouldn't call it a rush. A lot of times killers apply map pressure, or someone tries to kite them into me that it's hard to chain gens.I can rescue, but odds are high there's 2, or 3 other people better suited for it at any given time, and I HATE it when all 3 people just stop, and panic when I'm hooked, not doing gens regardless of how far away they are.
Kinda funny when killers seem to be like "THERE YOU ARE!!!" and really try to kill my ass all of a sudden when they see me.
That said, I'd love to earn more BP for playing like I'm actually trying to avoid the killer, and working behind the scenes to help ensure people get out alive...
but seeing what people have to say, I'm reminded that extra BP might reward gen rushers that push for sub 5 minute games, and get out, too. Those people are the banes of my existence as killer.
People sitting in the corner doing nothing may get rewarded, too. Lame.But I do agree that racking up bold, evader, and whatever points you get as a decoy might just blow my playstyle out of the water. Kinda sucks.
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You're supposed to fear the killers while having a decent chance to escape.
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A team of 4 killers vs zombies galore!
You sure yall don't want to rev up LFs chainsaw for that, and watch bits fly?
I wouldn't mind a zombie mode, but I'm not pushing for one either. -
Here is to hoping otherwise.Eight said:Yeah, I don't think the window-lickers on PS4 are going to go for this. As nice as it sounds.
If we can all walk away with some progress, I'll be thrilled.
Turn a normally pvp game into some weird, twisted coop game. Lol -
I wouldn't mind having to go to lockers to get more traps like the huntress getting more hatchets, or the jigsaw boxes.
I don't see it happening, though. There's a powerful addon that limits her to 1 trap. Or that dev stream I hadn;t watched either.
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@Nickenzie said:
Rebel_Raven said:
Nickenzie said:
Rebel_Raven said:
Nickenzie said:
Rebel_Raven said:
Nickenzie said:
Rebel_Raven said:
Nickenzie said:
Rebel_Raven said:I'm not sure how this is fair for the survivor. You'll have to explain how since not all survivor players are good at everything.
The black chest is borderline useless to them as the killer can patrol it for 30 seconds, then just beeline it to the survivor and chase them down.
The survivor still has zero chance to recon the hatch location, and has to get the key from a killer that will know their location every step of the way.
How many survivors have you met that can run from a killer for a solid 3 minutes, plus the time it takes to get to a gate that only the killer will know the location of most of the time? Then add the aura reading making it even harder.
Just slug the last 2 people if you're that bent out of shape about hatches, or find the hatch and strategically position yourself, and the 2nd to last alive.
Or stand on the hatch, and get ready to hurt them.You can search the chest at anytime in the trial, not just the end of the trial when the hatch has already spawned in. So, when there are 4 survivors remaining, search the chest when the killer is occupied and you have yourself a secured escape whenever things fall apart.
The killer not only knows the location of the chest, but when people are searching it.
Short of sitting there and waiting for a killer to grab someone, there's not much that can occupy the killer. Maybe if the killer is chasing someone.
The killer may not have to be far from the chest to guard it.
Hag, and maybe the nurse could just teleport back to it. Heck, hag is basically designed to guard stuff like that.Trapper can basically deny the area, too.
Agitation and/or iron grip to help make sure people get hooked near the chest.
If the killer is gonna hard patrol the Black Box, then there will be no pressure on generators. Yes, some killers can defend both the generators and the Black Box but survivors can use this against them. Imagine a Hag going after a injured survivor and is about to down the injured survivor, however someone triggers her trap set near the Black Box. Now the killer is in a bad situation, she can either give up the chase and lose potential momentum or down the injured survivor while someone has the hatch key. Maybe the survivor triggered her trap to bait her than ran and hid in a locker? Now she doesn't know where the survivor that triggered her trap is at and she lost all momentum from the injured survivor. Survivors have a lot of control over the Black Box, they can bait a search and waste the killers time or search it while the killer has someone in their grasp. Even worse, what happens if the killer guards the Black Box when it never came down to the last survivor? That meant that the killer wasted all that time guarding something just to guard it meaning the killer wasted a ton of time. Overall, it just depends on the killer's and survivor's skill to be honest.
Let me re-ask a question.
How many survivors have you come across that can dodge you for 3 minutes solid?
Then you add in the ability to see their auras so they literally cannot hide, joke as effectively, etc.The chest wasn't my only issue with this. I still don't see it as particularly equal for survivors.
Not many because a survivor shouldn't be able to 1v1 a killer who is supposed to be 4 times as strong as the survivors. However, even with the odds being against you, at least you have a chance at escaping. I'll add on, if you would've search the Black Box which is really easy to do in my opinion, then you wouldn't be in that situation in the first place. You can even search hooks of sacrificed survivors to see if they had the key if you don't like to risk yourself!
So, what you're saying is that if no one, or the last person gets the key someone else had, they're basically screwed.
If someone doesn't get the key they have to memorize all the sacrifice locations, provided the key even drops there, get the key, and survive vs a killer that can effortlessly track them for 3 minutes, plus getting to the gate.
Also some troll survivor might just drop it somewhere.
No, that's not really a chance. May as well have an I win card.
That end game is thoroughly one sided.
Plus the killer can tunnel the one with the key, use Ferguson's and basically destroy that end game. Even if it was a hook death, it's an insane stipulation.
They can tunnel the hell out of the last person period.So, yeah, it's not really giving someone a chance.
The only chance, I'd say they have, is if they get the key just as they become the last alive, and getting out of the hatch in about 30 seconds if they're lucky and blood warden or other aura reading perks aren't on.
I think that you are misunderstanding me @Rebel_Raven because I think that you are making this look more difficult than it is.
If you find the chest, wait for someone to occupy the killer then search it for the hatch key. Now you can either do generators, be altruistic, or do nothing but you probably won't pip. When you see the hatch aura after 30 seconds, run to it and open the hatch. Killer having a standoff? Exit gates will open in 3 minutes. The survivor has a lot of control in my opinion.
PS: I appreciate the civil conversation that we are having, even though we disagree with each other.
Imo, I don't believe you can offer a balance idea unless you think of all the ways it can go wrong. Well, I mean you can, but I'd hope that a pessimist would pick it apart, and reassemble it before it goes into action.
This one is a doozey, imo.
I'm making it sound harder because it can get that hard, or worse.Your scenario is the survivor that gets the key stays alive the whole time and gets that chance to use the hatch.
Pretty sure no killer will let that happen if they can do anything about it.You aren't accounting for multiple scenarios that will just annihilate any chance a survivor has under that system. Largely when the 2nd, 3rd, and maybe 4th person has to own the key.
If you find the chest, you alert the killer getting the key.
The killer finds you, tunnels you, kills you because no survivor should be able to 1vs1 a killer, and people really hate hatch plays, so they want you dead.Key drops at the hook if everyone else is lucky.
They have to remember what hook that is, if they're lucky for it to drop there.
The killer has a huge opportunity because a survivor probably won't wait until the very end to find it meaning it could get lost very early in the game. That is a long time to remember that one spot.Then the end game. The killer manages 3 deaths, maybe 10 minutes later. 2 gens are left. They killed the guy with the key. Maybe a few key owners.
The hatch isn't open. The killer can use their full arsenal to find the last one. Aura reading, traps, etc.
The survivor has to remember the hook at best, at worst where the guy with the key got hit first. They don't know who has the key, so that's 3 possible hooks. If the killer has the park that makes people drop stuff, that's 3 hits that could have happened anywhere on the map.
Say the survivor manages to find the key.
They have 30 seconds to get their bearings provided the killer isn't on them, and get to the hatch, and that's against a full perk killer.If the killer is camping the key, they spot the survivor, and chases them down in a heart beat. No chance. There's no realistic play a survivor can make in 30 seconds to get the killer off the key, get the key, and get out. Any longer and the killer has full aura reading.
30 seconds of fruitless searching could easily doom a survivor. Zero chance, realistically.
That's just off the top of my head.
I do try to be civil, thanks. I appreciate the civil discussion with you, too.
What would you do to balance it out?
That's a tall order, TBH. The more I think about it, the more I really do not believe it can be done. I will say that up front so I don't make you read the wall of text.
There's reasons, there's reasons. I'm not just dismissing the idea without those.
For every thing that can go terribly wrong, I have to consider how to minimize it without neutering the idea entirely.
Stuff -can- still go wrong, but it has to be a challenge, not a death sentence for the survivor AND/OR killer.
The hatch really does need to be viable as an exit, but not so viable as it ticks off the killers, which the current system does, apparently, even though there's current tactics to kybosh, or fight hatch plays.That means, to me, looking at it from the eyes of a killer, and a survivor, and asking myself, "Do I want to play in that system? As a killer? As a Survivor? At my skill level? What about people who don't have my style, or the skill I do, or have more skill?"
"Am I the meth addict running around, pro juking the killer? Am I the Pokemon guide taking killers on a tour of Pallet Town? Am I average at juking? Am I no good with pallets? Am I more suited for stealth play and garbage at running? I need to put myself in their shoes as best I can."
I mean we can't screw over certain play styles that are kinda normal. We can't screw over people of high, mid, or low skill, stealth enthusiasts, juke pros, pallet pros and boy howdy this idea...Well, the aura reading after 30 seconds utterly screws the stealth centric player. If they don't have sprint burst, lithe, or perfect balance (which can be basically useless in most of every map as there's no drops. Lithe is going to suffer, too, soon. Lithe is useless in a lot of areas as it is.) then it's game over. No way around it. They simply cannot run fast enough, can they?
Heck, it even screws over some of the most wily of crack addict runners with the 3 minute timer.
I hesitate to even consider tracking boosts. I know wraiths kick my ass, and oddly, doctors who are lvl 1 running overcharge in finding me easily.
So there's that huge problem. Balancing the tracking bonus to not bone stealth players, or people who aren't good at running, or scrapping it entirely.
It's not hard to tunnel a survivor most times because I do not believe the majority are super jukers.
Maybe the aura reading doesn't work on people who are crouched?
It buys the killer time. It gives basically everyone a chance, but my gosh, it's slow if you don't have urban evasion.
Then there's Blood Warden, and assorted perks, and addons that make this severely impractical. A slow moving target being tracked without error, and maybe even unaware of it. I know Wraith, and Pig can aura read survivors with their secondary movement and the right addon, rare as they are.There's only one black key, and one chest. Trolls can drop it, so make it a permanent addition until hooked and sacrificed.
The perk that makes people drop the key does not work on it because it's thoroughly unfair. A survivor would have to run bond, or some such to see where someone got hit first, and dropped the key.
Maybe have it light up like the glass bead marker for maps when dropped? Only survivors can see it. It would fix a lot of problems, IMO.You can actually find keys that can open hatches in chests currently, IIRC, so the black chest is just a guaranteed hatch opening key.
Crap. What happens when a survivor brings in their own key? Or loots one from a normal chest? Do we nix the current key system entirely?
If we don't nix the current keys, we have to figure out how they'll work with the black system, or are there 2 separate systems. So in the end there will be 2 hatches?
But if there's the original system is still in play, it means the black chest does nothing for the hated hatch play.If we do get rid of the current key system, how do we comp the people who may be losing their keys? People might stockpile hatch opening keys.Then there's the massive amount of work redoing the entire key system.
I can't in good conscience screw over key holders, and make the devs rework the entire key, and chest system.I don't believe it can be done. It's not practical, and we have to make it fun for both ends.
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Deep sigh You have a hell of an up hill battle.
Coordination is a game breaker because the game was never meant for survivors to be coordinated. If they report your location well enough, there really isn't anything you can do, except get lucky.I have tactics, but even then, it's a MASSIVE headache. I'll blab them because it's unlikely an SWF will use them on me because I'll dodge them without batting an eyelash. I recommend you do, too.
Provided they're a group trying to play normally, the first person you see is likely to be their decoy.
Basically run screaming from them, and try and kill everyone else as much as possible, first.
The decoy wants you following them, and will keep you at it as long as possible. That as long as possible could cost you 3 generators, easily.
If the survivor seems a little too good at chasing, or, you know, stops mid chase to make sure you see them, or tries to heal themselves in front of you and you're a nurse (I had a nurse challenge, and was lvl 1. Saw a meg self heal right in front of me, and I was running thanatophobia, not nurses' calling. My nurse would have facepalmed if she could have), just leave them alone. There's lower hanging fruit.As cruel as it is, if it's an swf of 3, go for the 4th. The SWF is less inclined to give a damn about them, and if they die, it can really slow down the match. It sucks for the 4th of an ed edd and eddie, but there you go. One less person, maybe 2 with the rescuer, trying to do gens. If you're lucky, they're altruistic as all get out, and they all stop doing gens. You might down more of them.
If it's just 2, break up the 2. Kill one. The other 2, hopefully, aren't in on it.
If it's 4, just try not to get the decoy if they're really good at being a decoy.If you down one of the SWF it could cause some chaos among them, and they may fall apart.
Beware obvious tactics. I.E.
"Hey, you have my buddy hooked! I'm going to 'sneak' up in in the most obvious way! You better chase me!" That's one of those obvious decoys.
"But I'm teabagging you! Better chase after me!! Far far from the hook!" Even more obvious decoy.
"Hey, ignore the pallet right by me! I'm teabagging you out in the open!"
Odds are the instant you chase them a few seconds, the hooked survivor is unhooked by someone who isn't the group's decoy. Patrol, find the other one(s) after you fool the obvious decoy into a chase.
If you're up to it, sure, give them the unhook, and keep hunting. Depends on the situation, and you.Try to zone them so they paint themselves into a corner.
I.E. the last generators they need are really close together. Patrol those MERCILESSLY. Do not chase anyone more than maybe 10 meters from the patrol route. Anyone down? Unless there's a hook near by, slug them. If there is a hook near by, maybe patrol that, too.
"Hey, killer! Here I am! Oh no, you hit me! Better finish the job! I'm just going to lead you far away from the other generators! Don't mind the people sneaking in to repair them! Kill me!"
Frustrate them immensely. They'll slip up, or quit, or get the gen done anyhow, but you'll have probably gotten some points in the process. I don't know how to stop the gradual progress they'll likely make without using perks.Pay attention to the noises they make. Loud explosions? Look that way. Is there a generator there? No? There's someone there, but odds are they will be long gone, and there may not be anything of value to be lost there.
Maybe they're fast vaulting? Maybe they're cleansing a totem and you have no hex perks? It's useless noise. Ignore it.Odds are the person hiding near the valuable objective will say to the decoy "hey, the killer is headed your way!" The decoy is long gone by the time you get there, and they rest are doing the gens they lured you away from.
If there is a generator there, then look at the locations of the rest, pick the easiest patrol route, and defend those generators. Heck, maybe don't even try and go there. They may have the gen done really quickly, and your patrol route gets disrupted.I'm not sure how to really stop the gradual increase in gen repairs they can peck short of some perks.
I guess TL;DR, ignore people that are easy to start chasing, and keep your eyes on the prize. Zone them to make them do gens until they leave the last 3 close together. Patrol those mercilessly, and don't hook anyone far from them.
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Imo, I don't believe you can offer a balance idea unless you think of all the ways it can go wrong. Well, I mean you can, but I'd hope that a pessimist would pick it apart, and reassemble it before it goes into action.Nickenzie said:
I think that you are misunderstanding me @Rebel_Raven because I think that you are making this look more difficult than it is.Rebel_Raven said:
So, what you're saying is that if no one, or the last person gets the key someone else had, they're basically screwed.Nickenzie said:
Not many because a survivor shouldn't be able to 1v1 a killer who is supposed to be 4 times as strong as the survivors. However, even with the odds being against you, at least you have a chance at escaping. I'll add on, if you would've search the Black Box which is really easy to do in my opinion, then you wouldn't be in that situation in the first place. You can even search hooks of sacrificed survivors to see if they had the key if you don't like to risk yourself!Rebel_Raven said:
Let me re-ask a question.Nickenzie said:
If the killer is gonna hard patrol the Black Box, then there will be no pressure on generators. Yes, some killers can defend both the generators and the Black Box but survivors can use this against them. Imagine a Hag going after a injured survivor and is about to down the injured survivor, however someone triggers her trap set near the Black Box. Now the killer is in a bad situation, she can either give up the chase and lose potential momentum or down the injured survivor while someone has the hatch key. Maybe the survivor triggered her trap to bait her than ran and hid in a locker? Now she doesn't know where the survivor that triggered her trap is at and she lost all momentum from the injured survivor. Survivors have a lot of control over the Black Box, they can bait a search and waste the killers time or search it while the killer has someone in their grasp. Even worse, what happens if the killer guards the Black Box when it never came down to the last survivor? That meant that the killer wasted all that time guarding something just to guard it meaning the killer wasted a ton of time. Overall, it just depends on the killer's and survivor's skill to be honest.Rebel_Raven said:
The killer not only knows the location of the chest, but when people are searching it.Nickenzie said:
You can search the chest at anytime in the trial, not just the end of the trial when the hatch has already spawned in. So, when there are 4 survivors remaining, search the chest when the killer is occupied and you have yourself a secured escape whenever things fall apart.Rebel_Raven said:I'm not sure how this is fair for the survivor. You'll have to explain how since not all survivor players are good at everything.
The black chest is borderline useless to them as the killer can patrol it for 30 seconds, then just beeline it to the survivor and chase them down.
The survivor still has zero chance to recon the hatch location, and has to get the key from a killer that will know their location every step of the way.
How many survivors have you met that can run from a killer for a solid 3 minutes, plus the time it takes to get to a gate that only the killer will know the location of most of the time? Then add the aura reading making it even harder.
Just slug the last 2 people if you're that bent out of shape about hatches, or find the hatch and strategically position yourself, and the 2nd to last alive.
Or stand on the hatch, and get ready to hurt them.
Short of sitting there and waiting for a killer to grab someone, there's not much that can occupy the killer. Maybe if the killer is chasing someone.
The killer may not have to be far from the chest to guard it.
Hag, and maybe the nurse could just teleport back to it. Heck, hag is basically designed to guard stuff like that.
Trapper can basically deny the area, too.
Agitation and/or iron grip to help make sure people get hooked near the chest.
How many survivors have you come across that can dodge you for 3 minutes solid?
Then you add in the ability to see their auras so they literally cannot hide, joke as effectively, etc.
The chest wasn't my only issue with this. I still don't see it as particularly equal for survivors.
If someone doesn't get the key they have to memorize all the sacrifice locations, provided the key even drops there, get the key, and survive vs a killer that can effortlessly track them for 3 minutes, plus getting to the gate.
Also some troll survivor might just drop it somewhere.
No, that's not really a chance. May as well have an I win card.
That end game is thoroughly one sided.
Plus the killer can tunnel the one with the key, use Ferguson's and basically destroy that end game. Even if it was a hook death, it's an insane stipulation.
They can tunnel the hell out of the last person period.
So, yeah, it's not really giving someone a chance.
The only chance, I'd say they have, is if they get the key just as they become the last alive, and getting out of the hatch in about 30 seconds if they're lucky and blood warden or other aura reading perks aren't on.
If you find the chest, wait for someone to occupy the killer then search it for the hatch key. Now you can either do generators, be altruistic, or do nothing but you probably won't pip. When you see the hatch aura after 30 seconds, run to it and open the hatch. Killer having a standoff? Exit gates will open in 3 minutes. The survivor has a lot of control in my opinion.
PS: I appreciate the civil conversation that we are having, even though we disagree with each other.
This one is a doozey, imo.
I'm making it sound harder because it can get that hard, or worse.
Your scenario is the survivor that gets the key stays alive the whole time and gets that chance to use the hatch.
Pretty sure no killer will let that happen if they can do anything about it.
You aren't accounting for multiple scenarios that will just annihilate any chance a survivor has under that system. Largely when the 2nd, 3rd, and maybe 4th person has to own the key.
If you find the chest, you alert the killer getting the key.
The killer finds you, tunnels you, kills you because no survivor should be able to 1vs1 a killer, and people really hate hatch plays, so they want you dead.
Key drops at the hook if everyone else is lucky.
They have to remember what hook that is, if they're lucky for it to drop there.
The killer has a huge opportunity because a survivor probably won't wait until the very end to find it meaning it could get lost very early in the game. That is a long time to remember that one spot.
Then the end game. The killer manages 3 deaths, maybe 10 minutes later. 2 gens are left. They killed the guy with the key. Maybe a few key owners.
The hatch isn't open. The killer can use their full arsenal to find the last one. Aura reading, traps, etc.
The survivor has to remember the hook at best, at worst where the guy with the key got hit first. They don't know who has the key, so that's 3 possible hooks. If the killer has the park that makes people drop stuff, that's 3 hits that could have happened anywhere on the map.
Say the survivor manages to find the key.
They have 30 seconds to get their bearings provided the killer isn't on them, and get to the hatch, and that's against a full perk killer.
If the killer is camping the key, they spot the survivor, and chases them down in a heart beat. No chance. There's no realistic play a survivor can make in 30 seconds to get the killer off the key, get the key, and get out. Any longer and the killer has full aura reading.
30 seconds of fruitless searching could easily doom a survivor. Zero chance, realistically.
That's just off the top of my head.
I do try to be civil, thanks. I appreciate the civil discussion with you, too.
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So, what you're saying is that if no one, or the last person gets the key someone else had, they're basically screwed.Nickenzie said:
Not many because a survivor shouldn't be able to 1v1 a killer who is supposed to be 4 times as strong as the survivors. However, even with the odds being against you, at least you have a chance at escaping. I'll add on, if you would've search the Black Box which is really easy to do in my opinion, then you wouldn't be in that situation in the first place. You can even search hooks of sacrificed survivors to see if they had the key if you don't like to risk yourself!Rebel_Raven said:
Let me re-ask a question.Nickenzie said:
If the killer is gonna hard patrol the Black Box, then there will be no pressure on generators. Yes, some killers can defend both the generators and the Black Box but survivors can use this against them. Imagine a Hag going after a injured survivor and is about to down the injured survivor, however someone triggers her trap set near the Black Box. Now the killer is in a bad situation, she can either give up the chase and lose potential momentum or down the injured survivor while someone has the hatch key. Maybe the survivor triggered her trap to bait her than ran and hid in a locker? Now she doesn't know where the survivor that triggered her trap is at and she lost all momentum from the injured survivor. Survivors have a lot of control over the Black Box, they can bait a search and waste the killers time or search it while the killer has someone in their grasp. Even worse, what happens if the killer guards the Black Box when it never came down to the last survivor? That meant that the killer wasted all that time guarding something just to guard it meaning the killer wasted a ton of time. Overall, it just depends on the killer's and survivor's skill to be honest.Rebel_Raven said:
The killer not only knows the location of the chest, but when people are searching it.Nickenzie said:
You can search the chest at anytime in the trial, not just the end of the trial when the hatch has already spawned in. So, when there are 4 survivors remaining, search the chest when the killer is occupied and you have yourself a secured escape whenever things fall apart.Rebel_Raven said:I'm not sure how this is fair for the survivor. You'll have to explain how since not all survivor players are good at everything.
The black chest is borderline useless to them as the killer can patrol it for 30 seconds, then just beeline it to the survivor and chase them down.
The survivor still has zero chance to recon the hatch location, and has to get the key from a killer that will know their location every step of the way.
How many survivors have you met that can run from a killer for a solid 3 minutes, plus the time it takes to get to a gate that only the killer will know the location of most of the time? Then add the aura reading making it even harder.
Just slug the last 2 people if you're that bent out of shape about hatches, or find the hatch and strategically position yourself, and the 2nd to last alive.
Or stand on the hatch, and get ready to hurt them.
Short of sitting there and waiting for a killer to grab someone, there's not much that can occupy the killer. Maybe if the killer is chasing someone.
The killer may not have to be far from the chest to guard it.
Hag, and maybe the nurse could just teleport back to it. Heck, hag is basically designed to guard stuff like that.
Trapper can basically deny the area, too.
Agitation and/or iron grip to help make sure people get hooked near the chest.
How many survivors have you come across that can dodge you for 3 minutes solid?
Then you add in the ability to see their auras so they literally cannot hide, joke as effectively, etc.
The chest wasn't my only issue with this. I still don't see it as particularly equal for survivors.
If someone doesn't get the key they have to memorize all the sacrifice locations, provided the key even drops there, get the key, and survive vs a killer that can effortlessly track them for 3 minutes, plus getting to the gate.
Also some troll survivor might just drop it somewhere.
No, that's not really a chance. May as well have an I win card.
That end game is thoroughly one sided.
Plus the killer can tunnel the one with the key, use Ferguson's and basically destroy that end game. Even if it was a hook death, it's an insane stipulation.
They can tunnel the hell out of the last person period.
So, yeah, it's not really giving someone a chance.
The only chance, I'd say they have, is if they get the key just as they become the last alive, and getting out of the hatch in about 30 seconds if they're lucky and blood warden or other aura reading perks aren't on.
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I can see you point, but we all don't do this sort of thing.
I have plenty of fun trying to sneak about, and do gens.
I'm not one of those mile a second juke masters that can instinctively take killers on tours of pallet town that seem to be the bored types. -
Let me re-ask a question.Nickenzie said:
If the killer is gonna hard patrol the Black Box, then there will be no pressure on generators. Yes, some killers can defend both the generators and the Black Box but survivors can use this against them. Imagine a Hag going after a injured survivor and is about to down the injured survivor, however someone triggers her trap set near the Black Box. Now the killer is in a bad situation, she can either give up the chase and lose potential momentum or down the injured survivor while someone has the hatch key. Maybe the survivor triggered her trap to bait her than ran and hid in a locker? Now she doesn't know where the survivor that triggered her trap is at and she lost all momentum from the injured survivor. Survivors have a lot of control over the Black Box, they can bait a search and waste the killers time or search it while the killer has someone in their grasp. Even worse, what happens if the killer guards the Black Box when it never came down to the last survivor? That meant that the killer wasted all that time guarding something just to guard it meaning the killer wasted a ton of time. Overall, it just depends on the killer's and survivor's skill to be honest.Rebel_Raven said:
The killer not only knows the location of the chest, but when people are searching it.Nickenzie said:
You can search the chest at anytime in the trial, not just the end of the trial when the hatch has already spawned in. So, when there are 4 survivors remaining, search the chest when the killer is occupied and you have yourself a secured escape whenever things fall apart.Rebel_Raven said:I'm not sure how this is fair for the survivor. You'll have to explain how since not all survivor players are good at everything.
The black chest is borderline useless to them as the killer can patrol it for 30 seconds, then just beeline it to the survivor and chase them down.
The survivor still has zero chance to recon the hatch location, and has to get the key from a killer that will know their location every step of the way.
How many survivors have you met that can run from a killer for a solid 3 minutes, plus the time it takes to get to a gate that only the killer will know the location of most of the time? Then add the aura reading making it even harder.
Just slug the last 2 people if you're that bent out of shape about hatches, or find the hatch and strategically position yourself, and the 2nd to last alive.
Or stand on the hatch, and get ready to hurt them.
Short of sitting there and waiting for a killer to grab someone, there's not much that can occupy the killer. Maybe if the killer is chasing someone.
The killer may not have to be far from the chest to guard it.
Hag, and maybe the nurse could just teleport back to it. Heck, hag is basically designed to guard stuff like that.
Trapper can basically deny the area, too.
Agitation and/or iron grip to help make sure people get hooked near the chest.
How many survivors have you come across that can dodge you for 3 minutes solid?
Then you add in the ability to see their auras so they literally cannot hide, joke as effectively, etc.
The chest wasn't my only issue with this. I still don't see it as particularly equal for survivors. -
Because there is still magic in VSing non swf groups. Some in dodging swfs.DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:
@Rebel_Raven said: DeadByFlashlight said:
@Rebel_Raven said: DeadByFlashlight said:
@Rebel_Raven said: Because voice comms is game breaking. It's several free perks all in one.
The last thing the killer community needs is even randoms being able to break the game. They haven't, and likely can't balance against swfs as it is. Digging the hole deeper won't help.
The dev's have stated that this is an "antisocial" game. You're not supposed to talk in the first place. They need to digg the hole deeper in order to balance properly. You cant have two game modes, SWF and solo with insane difference balance-wise, but without any compensation on the killers side. Devs opened pandoras box already, its too late now and the game simply evolves around SWF with voice comms now If random survivors get voice comms, I'm retiring as a killer until they balance against it, and considering how that's working out with swfs, I'm basically going to be retired as a killer testing the waters with rituals at most. If they add in game chat, why would people who use external chat use it?
If the game punishes people for using internal chat, they will bypass it with external. I've played against people that use voice comms. It's way too unrewarding to play against them. Sure, but the point is that they can ONLY balance around voice comms properly if everyone has access to them. External and internal comms would work together like in any other game, take overwatch for example. WHen I play overwatch I am in teamspeak together with my friends and if we want to share calls with the whole team you press the push to talk button. I see no reason why this would not work in DBD. Let's say, for instance the killer gets a notification like a failed skill check every time someone uses ingame voice chat (entity help us, it would be like the 4th of july, and that'snot considering obvious distractions.) why would people who can use external chat have internal chat on? External chat bypasses giving that warning. Or if killers can hear survivors clearly, some kid screaming that you're camping them if you aren't out of visual range, and maybe even if you are? Do you want a doctor chasing you as some high pitched kid whines that you're looping them? I'll grant you that balancing around provided in game chat might help, but they can only balance around that.
And until they balance around that, which will take a long time, there may well be a sharp decrease in long term killers.
If you mute the annoying ones, then any benefit the killer gets from voice comms balancing is probably gone since they will all probably be annoying.
Muting takes time. Killers do not have time to waste in a game that might not last 5 minutes. No ingame voice comms need to be the same as ts/discord. The killer shouldnt hear survivors obviously They had better shore up the immense power gap between survivors and killers in a hurry after implementing that. And hopefully have a quick mute for survivors so some annoying git isn't in my ear the whole game.
Since killers won't have any idea who's talking and who isn't, have any ideas on how to balance around it?
What do you mean with "killers won't have any idea who's talking and who isn't"
How is that relevant?
And we already have that immense power gap between SWF and killers, thats why SWF is such a big problem
It will make me more prone to retire from killer.
that immense power gap will probably be -every match- and not just swfs I can dodge and people sending chat requests.
A good many killers are either tired of voice chat as it is, or will be very quickly once the survivors abuse it enough.If I knew who was chatting or not, I could maybe play killer closer to the original intent of the game.
Keeping it to SWF helps contain the problem for now, though I got chat requests from strangers as a survivor, and I'm almost certain it's becoming more common.
Not keeping it to swf may help speed up balance, or it could backfire immensely as the devs can't compensate for telepathic survivors. Considering the track record with swfs so far, it will likely be the latter.
If the devs dont compensate killersm when survivors can use voice comms, then thats ok.
If they finally admit on that I am ready to retire too.I just cant stand the current situation anymore
Just tried to have a fun match at rank 13 with my newly purchased clown. Got bullied by 3 man DS team. Now I am afk playing oxygen not included while I derank back to 15. I cant stand DBD anymore, its such a mess and I honestly cant believe how there are still beginner players wanting to play killer
Too bad we can't ensure all 5 players keep getting an even shake. -
I prefer Mori on either side. Way more stylish.
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It will make me more prone to retire from killer.DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:
@Rebel_Raven said: DeadByFlashlight said:
@Rebel_Raven said: Because voice comms is game breaking. It's several free perks all in one.
The last thing the killer community needs is even randoms being able to break the game. They haven't, and likely can't balance against swfs as it is. Digging the hole deeper won't help.
The dev's have stated that this is an "antisocial" game. You're not supposed to talk in the first place. They need to digg the hole deeper in order to balance properly. You cant have two game modes, SWF and solo with insane difference balance-wise, but without any compensation on the killers side. Devs opened pandoras box already, its too late now and the game simply evolves around SWF with voice comms now If random survivors get voice comms, I'm retiring as a killer until they balance against it, and considering how that's working out with swfs, I'm basically going to be retired as a killer testing the waters with rituals at most. If they add in game chat, why would people who use external chat use it?
If the game punishes people for using internal chat, they will bypass it with external. I've played against people that use voice comms. It's way too unrewarding to play against them. Sure, but the point is that they can ONLY balance around voice comms properly if everyone has access to them. External and internal comms would work together like in any other game, take overwatch for example. WHen I play overwatch I am in teamspeak together with my friends and if we want to share calls with the whole team you press the push to talk button. I see no reason why this would not work in DBD. Let's say, for instance the killer gets a notification like a failed skill check every time someone uses ingame voice chat (entity help us, it would be like the 4th of july, and that'snot considering obvious distractions.) why would people who can use external chat have internal chat on? External chat bypasses giving that warning. Or if killers can hear survivors clearly, some kid screaming that you're camping them if you aren't out of visual range, and maybe even if you are? Do you want a doctor chasing you as some high pitched kid whines that you're looping them? I'll grant you that balancing around provided in game chat might help, but they can only balance around that.
And until they balance around that, which will take a long time, there may well be a sharp decrease in long term killers.
If you mute the annoying ones, then any benefit the killer gets from voice comms balancing is probably gone since they will all probably be annoying.
Muting takes time. Killers do not have time to waste in a game that might not last 5 minutes.
No ingame voice comms need to be the same as ts/discord.
The killer shouldnt hear survivors obviously
They had better shore up the immense power gap between survivors and killers in a hurry after implementing that.
And hopefully have a quick mute for survivors so some annoying git isn't in my ear the whole game.
Since killers won't have any idea who's talking and who isn't, have any ideas on how to balance around it?
What do you mean with "killers won't have any idea who's talking and who isn't"
How is that relevant?And we already have that immense power gap between SWF and killers, thats why SWF is such a big problem
that immense power gap will probably be -every match- and not just swfs I can dodge and people sending chat requests.
A good many killers are either tired of voice chat as it is, or will be very quickly once the survivors abuse it enough.
If I knew who was chatting or not, I could maybe play killer closer to the original intent of the game.
Keeping it to SWF helps contain the problem for now, though I got chat requests from strangers as a survivor, and I'm almost certain it's becoming more common.
Not keeping it to swf may help speed up balance, or it could backfire immensely as the devs can't compensate for telepathic survivors. Considering the track record with swfs so far, it will likely be the latter.
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That's just an excuse to get a better look at her figure!... carry on.Ravean said:The huntress would probably look pretty good in a scuba suit. She would have a harpoon instead of the Axe and Masks of a Shark and an Octopus.
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Tactical turtleneck!Mr_Myers said:Um, her alternate outfits still fit her theme of the forest, making her the ocean is the opposite. Imagine giving trapper a turtleneck...
https://youtu.be/8FYJfEHOuY0
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The killer not only knows the location of the chest, but when people are searching it.Nickenzie said:
You can search the chest at anytime in the trial, not just the end of the trial when the hatch has already spawned in. So, when there are 4 survivors remaining, search the chest when the killer is occupied and you have yourself a secured escape whenever things fall apart.Rebel_Raven said:I'm not sure how this is fair for the survivor. You'll have to explain how since not all survivor players are good at everything.
The black chest is borderline useless to them as the killer can patrol it for 30 seconds, then just beeline it to the survivor and chase them down.
The survivor still has zero chance to recon the hatch location, and has to get the key from a killer that will know their location every step of the way.
How many survivors have you met that can run from a killer for a solid 3 minutes, plus the time it takes to get to a gate that only the killer will know the location of most of the time? Then add the aura reading making it even harder.
Just slug the last 2 people if you're that bent out of shape about hatches, or find the hatch and strategically position yourself, and the 2nd to last alive.
Or stand on the hatch, and get ready to hurt them.
Short of sitting there and waiting for a killer to grab someone, there's not much that can occupy the killer. Maybe if the killer is chasing someone.
The killer may not have to be far from the chest to guard it.
Hag, and maybe the nurse could just teleport back to it. Heck, hag is basically designed to guard stuff like that.
Trapper can basically deny the area, too.
Agitation and/or iron grip to help make sure people get hooked near the chest.
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They had better shore up the immense power gap between survivors and killers in a hurry after implementing that.DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:
@Rebel_Raven said: Because voice comms is game breaking. It's several free perks all in one.
The last thing the killer community needs is even randoms being able to break the game. They haven't, and likely can't balance against swfs as it is. Digging the hole deeper won't help.
The dev's have stated that this is an "antisocial" game. You're not supposed to talk in the first place. They need to digg the hole deeper in order to balance properly. You cant have two game modes, SWF and solo with insane difference balance-wise, but without any compensation on the killers side. Devs opened pandoras box already, its too late now and the game simply evolves around SWF with voice comms now If random survivors get voice comms, I'm retiring as a killer until they balance against it, and considering how that's working out with swfs, I'm basically going to be retired as a killer testing the waters with rituals at most. If they add in game chat, why would people who use external chat use it?
If the game punishes people for using internal chat, they will bypass it with external.
I've played against people that use voice comms. It's way too unrewarding to play against them.
Sure, but the point is that they can ONLY balance around voice comms properly if everyone has access to them.
External and internal comms would work together like in any other game, take overwatch for example.
WHen I play overwatch I am in teamspeak together with my friends and if we want to share calls with the whole team you press the push to talk button. I see no reason why this would not work in DBD.
Let's say, for instance the killer gets a notification like a failed skill check every time someone uses ingame voice chat (entity help us, it would be like the 4th of july, and that'snot considering obvious distractions.) why would people who can use external chat have internal chat on? External chat bypasses giving that warning.
Or if killers can hear survivors clearly, some kid screaming that you're camping them if you aren't out of visual range, and maybe even if you are?
Do you want a doctor chasing you as some high pitched kid whines that you're looping them?
I'll grant you that balancing around provided in game chat might help, but they can only balance around that.
And until they balance around that, which will take a long time, there may well be a sharp decrease in long term killers.If you mute the annoying ones, then any benefit the killer gets from voice comms balancing is probably gone since they will all probably be annoying.
Muting takes time. Killers do not have time to waste in a game that might not last 5 minutes.No ingame voice comms need to be the same as ts/discord.
The killer shouldnt hear survivors obviously
And hopefully have a quick mute for survivors so some annoying git isn't in my ear the whole game.
Since killers won't have any idea who's talking and who isn't, have any ideas on how to balance around it? -
Oh come on, it surely won't destroy the ability for an swf to get games!
Look at the comments of people complaining about swfs! You're bound to see someone claiming swfs are easy, and so forth!
Some people love having that much deck stacked against them, and will gladly play against swfs!
They'll play swf groups, and we'll all be happy! -
I'm not sure how this is fair for the survivor. You'll have to explain how since not all survivor players are good at everything.
The black chest is borderline useless to them as the killer can patrol it for 30 seconds, then just beeline it to the survivor and chase them down.
The survivor still has zero chance to recon the hatch location, and has to get the key from a killer that will know their location every step of the way.
How many survivors have you met that can run from a killer for a solid 3 minutes, plus the time it takes to get to a gate that only the killer will know the location of most of the time? Then add the aura reading making it even harder.
Just slug the last 2 people if you're that bent out of shape about hatches, or find the hatch and strategically position yourself, and the 2nd to last alive.
Or stand on the hatch, and get ready to hurt them.
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Ok, you win.
Usually jaded, but you get good vibes. -
Any of Neo dodging swfs, and/or common swf loadouts like flashlight teams, squadettes, 3+ toolboxes, etc?
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I wouldn't mind this at all.
Survivors at the gate lingering, doing assorted stuff. I arrive. Wave. They leave. We all move on.
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Let's say, for instance the killer gets a notification like a failed skill check every time someone uses ingame voice chat (entity help us, it would be like the 4th of july, and that'snot considering obvious distractions.) why would people who can use external chat have internal chat on? External chat bypasses giving that warning.DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Because voice comms is game breaking. It's several free perks all in one.
The last thing the killer community needs is even randoms being able to break the game. They haven't, and likely can't balance against swfs as it is. Digging the hole deeper won't help.
The dev's have stated that this is an "antisocial" game. You're not supposed to talk in the first place.
They need to digg the hole deeper in order to balance properly.
You cant have two game modes, SWF and solo with insane difference balance-wise, but without any compensation on the killers side.
Devs opened pandoras box already, its too late now and the game simply evolves around SWF with voice comms now
If random survivors get voice comms, I'm retiring as a killer until they balance against it, and considering how that's working out with swfs, I'm basically going to be retired as a killer testing the waters with rituals at most.
If they add in game chat, why would people who use external chat use it?
If the game punishes people for using internal chat, they will bypass it with external.I've played against people that use voice comms. It's way too unrewarding to play against them.
Sure, but the point is that they can ONLY balance around voice comms properly if everyone has access to them.
External and internal comms would work together like in any other game, take overwatch for example.
WHen I play overwatch I am in teamspeak together with my friends and if we want to share calls with the whole team you press the push to talk button. I see no reason why this would not work in DBD.
Or if killers can hear survivors clearly, some kid screaming that you're camping them if you aren't out of visual range, and maybe even if you are?
Do you want a doctor chasing you as some high pitched kid whines that you're looping them?
I'll grant you that balancing around provided in game chat might help, but they can only balance around that.
And until they balance around that, which will take a long time, there may well be a sharp decrease in long term killers.
If you mute the annoying ones, then any benefit the killer gets from voice comms balancing is probably gone since they will all probably be annoying.
Muting takes time. Killers do not have time to waste in a game that might not last 5 minutes. -
If random survivors get voice comms, I'm retiring as a killer until they balance against it, and considering how that's working out with swfs, I'm basically going to be retired as a killer testing the waters with rituals at most.DeadByFlashlight said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Because voice comms is game breaking. It's several free perks all in one.The last thing the killer community needs is even randoms being able to break the game.
They haven't, and likely can't balance against swfs as it is. Digging the hole deeper won't help.
The dev's have stated that this is an "antisocial" game. You're not supposed to talk in the first place.
They need to digg the hole deeper in order to balance properly.
You cant have two game modes, SWF and solo with insane difference balance-wise, but without any compensation on the killers side.Devs opened pandoras box already, its too late now and the game simply evolves around SWF with voice comms now
If they add in game chat, why would people who use external chat use it?
If the game punishes people for using internal chat, they will bypass it with external.
I've played against people that use voice comms. It's way too unrewarding to play against them.