PigMainBigBrain
PigMainBigBrain
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@TeambossFloze said:
@PigMainBigBrain said:
thats the complete ass opposite of BBQ that reveals auras of survivors within like 16m of the hook. Stuff like that.....
I also think there are a lot of anti camping perks in game. I think revealing close by survivors would not stop camping, in fact I think it would make it worse.
I mean they have perks like borrowed time, but people who camp near hooks for the quick grab RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE KILLERS FACE WITHIN 3 SECONDS OF HOOKING THEM don't carry those perks. They aren't trying to actually save the other survivor, and most of the time it ends up working against the person being saved because the person saving will just duck and hide, while the killer is tracking scratch marks. ######### I'd even go for putting that control on the person being saved and having some survivor perk where after being unhooked you leave no scratch marks and no blood stains for 15 seconds or something. Hell, even give the killer some kind of control. Reveal the aura of the person unhooking someone for 3 seconds that person leaves scratch marks even while crouching for 20 seconds, on the other hand that same killer perk removes blood stains and scratch marks from the person being saved for 30 seconds. #########....it'd be a nice rework to make your choice even.....
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@Giddawid said:
@Sinner I disagree that the only place that skill is in the chase. There can be strategy outside of that which requires forward thinking, although that is not necessarily rewarded in the current ranking system either, so I can see what you're saying. For example, throwing a pebble and having the killer leave to check that area should give you boldness, in my opinion. It's tactical. Things like that currently aren't reflected in the ranking system, so tell me how they could be. That's what I need from you guys
First of all, I'd like to say, thanks for engaging with the community.
Second....the only people I've personally seen DC from my games come from rage quits. Sometimes but rarely network issues. So there needs to be a distinction between the two.
3rd. If you want killers to stop DCing you guys need to stop letting rank 1's and rank 3's and rank 5's team up with a rank 16 smurf and harass a rank 16 killer....Let people in those low ranks learn the game, especially killers since the entire structure of the game is dedicated to their performance. If they can't learn how to perform you just end up with less killers, and more DC's because some rank 1 decided to jump into an SWF and harass a new killer with flashlights, jumping on terrain that can't be reached, and other BS that just pushes a killer to go do something else or in the worst case scenario DC. And for the survivors, punish bad playstyles more. Farming people off the hook, leading the killer into someone and pointing at them, purposefully body blocking someone into getting hit, hook trolling by spamming the unhook button.
Things that should be rewarded....taking a hit for someone you're trying to heal, or taking a hit to save someone in general. Stealth should be rewarded, being in a chase while gens are getting done should be rewarded. People legitimately without exploits loop a killer for 4 gens and don't get rewarded which makes no sense at all. And encourage more anti camping, reward the killer for getting hits on people while someone is already hooked a distance away. Encourage anti hook farming from survivors by making some kinda perk thats the complete ass opposite of BBQ that reveals auras of survivors within like 16m of the hook. Stuff like that.....
Matter of fact, imagine a perk like this.
After hooking a survivor auras of survivors within 16m of the hook are revealed to you, hitting a survivor outside of 30m of a hook gives bonus BP.
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@TAG said:
Alright, so my loadout should be as follows:-Franklin's Demise
-Sloppy Butcher
-Hex: Ruin
-Hex: No One Escapes Death
-Blood Warden
-Surveillance
-Pop Goes The Weasel
-Overcharge
-Knock-out
-Cypress MoriSound okay. :P
Pretty sure any of those will put the fear of god in survivors along with multiple jigsaw boxes. Surveillance+pop goes the weasel+overcharge is enough to stop the game. By themselves though not so much. Blood Warden stacks well with NoED on the off chance they actually make it to end game but if you run those two you might as well run bitter murmur for the aura tracking at the end to get that guaranteed first knock down.
Knock out provides another objective on top of the jigsaw boxes, hooks, and the lanterns, throw in a hex false objective build if you want to add another objective and kill people at the same time ala haunted grounds+noED. The pig increases the games clock, so during this entire event I will be doing just that while also running builds that punish you for completing objectives on top of the lantern objectives. Pain will come....pain will come....
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@mistar_z said:
I mean other than everyone just outright disconnecting the second they see the deep wound status.Run resilience, stay injured....gen rush. Or take it a step further and run Dead Hard+Resillience+NoMither+insert whatever you want. Then proceed to gen rush, loop, and completely destroy legion.
I'm not joking, his base kit design allows intelligent players to get faster gen rushing progress than any killer thats ever come out.
Also side note, triggering a sprint burst or any kind of sprint skill after his initial hit will put you so damn far across the map from him plus the stun itll give you time to break the chase and mend.
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I posted this in another thread a good while ago, but the premise lies behind the general idea that ruleset no. 2 should be part of her base kit. The idea behind ruleset is a great idea, sure, why show the auras of every single jigsaw box if all people are gonna do is stall out gen progress until the trap is off, or say you're unfortunate and they stumble across the first box they get the thing off first try before the trap even activates because a gen never got done. Wasting a pink slot for this is unnecessary. Now I can see some arguments to say (well what happens if you put a trap on someone and its the end of the game and the exit gates are opened with ruleset 2 being base kit they can't see any of the boxes because theres no way for the traps to activate.....so why not make jigsaw box auras reveal themselves at the end of the game by default if the idea is to give the survivors that advantage for balance? Her problem isn't end game though, her problem is increasing the risks for survivors during the actual struggle of mid game? I dunno devs can make their choice on that one, but some ideas. Also within this thread I really liked the face mask change that makes people drunk while they have a jigsaw box on and see purple and ######### like the clown bottles. Imagine running around with that on and trying to focus on gens or jigsaw boxes. It'd probably instill immediate panic on survivors not ready for it. Better status effect than blind imo. Its better to blind the person thats not in trouble to prevent them from helping their team mates instead of blind the person who was just knocked down and castrated and currently running for his life ala perfect skills like knockout.
New pink add on is obsession based.
Death is a Surprise Party: Start the trial with 3 bear traps. The obsession of the trial starts the trial with a shotgun collar, this shotgun collar is linked to 1 of the survivors randomly. The obsession may not have a bear trap placed on them, and may not remove the trap via jigsaw box until it is activated. The obsession has Aura reading of the survivor they are linked to and can see that survivors icon in blue. The obsession gains 50% more altruism while helping that survivor. The obsession also receives 50% more healing speed when healing that survivor. Should that survivor die the Shotgun collar activates. Upon finding the correct jigsaw box the collar is removed. On the other hand failing a jigsaw box results in the shotgun collar exploding. Attempting to leave through the exit gates results in the shotgun collar exploding. Should the survivor linked to the obsession survive via exit gates or hatch the collar is deactivated.
(I thought about making the shotgun collar explode immediately upon the linked survivor dying, but considering the human condition, that may lead to trolling Also since the boxes are preset, it allows some counter play for SWF groups who can memorize or attempt to memorize which jigsaw box they were at upon removal.)
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@Morfedel said:
The title pretty much says it all. How do you combat toxic SWF groups?First step, Franklins, no more toxic flashlights. Second Step, force altruism and punish it by playing a character that can quickly injure survivors and extend the duration of altruism via heal reductions etc.
3rd Step, add in as many extra objectives as you can even if it means slugging, force them to communicate with skills like knockout.
4th step, always account for the odd man out thats not dead, IE skills like thano which slow down the guy you didn't count on and slow his gen progress, even just a little bit.
5th step, if you know they're gonna be a hassle, carry an early game mori and shut one of their team mates out early. What else are you gonna use them for? Really......
6th step, pick a killer who can handle more than one survivor at a time. Pig Traps, Doctor aura, Legion bleed outs, Trapper map coverage, Hag. Learn to multitask, never get tunnel vision.
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@Eninya said:
Both gen-watching perks are useless.Surveillance should allow you to get an aura read when the generator is worked on and allow you to better defend against cross-map generators when down to 3. THEN it would actually be useful. Currently, it offers no benefit whatsoever, especially in the context of the Pig. It should've been what Tinkerer is now.
Good luck on Adept Pig.
I ended up getting adept, but it was basically like going into the game with 2 perks only. I was sweaty as #########!
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@Rebel_Raven said:
To be fair Legion's gen perk is kinda useless, too. Had survivors go 2 on a gen to bait me, then they split just as I arrived, then the other 2 started working on a gen across the map.
In other words survivors that are coordinated can abuse the perk.At least the legions perk gave you factual information. There were in fact 2 people on that gen at one point. But with surveillance I end up mind gaming myself, nobody was even at the gen after the white aura went away..... #########....
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Just sounds like a better legion....as if the legion didn't already have enough problems being outclassed....
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@Jake_Parks_prince said:
Devour hope is a lovely perk if the totem doesn't get found and destroyed wihin your first 3 hooks. The fact is it takes too long to become useful and with hex's not being so hidden I think it needs a slight buffIts not the problem of the hex totem itself, its a problem of hexes in general. They promised us some kind of hex rework a few months ago and its getting ridiculous. Hexes other than Haunted ground, I personally have them off limits because they stick out like a sore thumb, their placement on the map is predictable, and they take no effort to remove, and most killers don't have ways of instantly defending a totem.
The problem is, you could in theory make some really elaborate builds with hexes, assuming survivors have 3 brain cells and can't find the totem. But at the moment if you wanna run hexes, you gotta run a russian roulette style set up with thrill of the hunt protection or risk going through the match with 3 perks the whole game. And we still have issues with thrill of the hunt bugging out and NOT TELLING ME THAT SOMEONE IS ON MY HEX BECAUSE IM TOO FAR AWAY!
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seems like a purple add on imo
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She has a lot of perk versatility. Use that to your advantage because she's good with pretty much any build out there. So much so, that you may find yourself running out of ideas. But I will say....stay away from hexes. It may seem like a good idea on paper, but until they make hexes not suck, keep them out of your main repertoire.
Thano
Sloppy
NoED
Franklins
Knock out
Nurses
Bitter Murmer
Monitor and Abuse
Haunted Ground
Make your choiceIf you pick any perk that has a terror radius mod to it like caulrophobia which give the survivor icons, that pretty much give away the fact that you're approaching, use these while playing less than stealthy. Or you're just gonna force people to run away, which is sometimes good but most of the time bad.
Theres a cool interaction with her stealth and monitor and abuse. People don't realize it but when you crouch your terror radius doesn't immediately go away. Monitor on the other hand forces it to drop to 0 pretty much immediately. Its a really good mind game perk.
Her best maps are Lery's memorial, and the meatplant.
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@HatCreature said:
@TAG said:
PigMainBigBrain said:
-snip-Let's simplify that JUUUUST a little.
Shotgun Collar
Ultra Rare Add-On
A special trap for a special game.-You become obsessed with one Survivor.
-You begin the trial with 1 Shotgun Collar.
-The Aura of a Survivor wearing a Shotgun Collar is revealed to the Obsession.
-A Survivor's Altruistic Speed is increased by 50% when helping the Obsession.
-Shotgun Collar triggers when a Survivor searches an incorrect Jigsaw Box or when the Obsession is Sacrificed or Killed.The Shotgun collar! It was only in number 3 so I forgot all about it, damn that would be such a great adddition to her. It would be just like the movies too because not all games were about saving yourself, your fate was not always your own, sometimes your life was in someone else's hands. This is beautiful, it can be tweaked a little of course but the idea is fresh and fun hey @not_Queen I hope you're an appropriate person to tag in this,any thoughts on this? Are the Devs giving Pig any thought after they finish Freddy?
The idea comes directly from the movie, the obsession is the one who is supposed to have the shotgun collar on and they start the match with it. The idea comes from looking at the relationship between Lynn and how she must keep Jigsaw and Jeff alive at all costs in order to survive herself. This job is given to the Obsession to get 1 survivor to survive at all costs. With a twist that the survivor knows that the shotgun collar exists, in the same way that Lynn has to rely on Jeff to survive the challenge. And should Jeff die or fail, she dies as well. Ideally though I did leave out a specific caveat that deactivates the shotgun collar should the person they've been saving the entire time leave through the exit gates or hatch. Allowing the obsession to leave as promised. (whether or not amanda the pig allows this final escape is another thing entirely, but at least you will be free of the shotgun collar.)
In the movie Jeff doesn't know that Lynn has some device strapped around her face, but Lynn becomes fully aware over time that Jeff is in fact taking the real challenge. Now in Dead by daylight the obsession isn't going to sit around a surgery room and stand there holding M1. But he obsession can monitor the link in the same way Lynn could know what Jeff was doing. But in contrast, the person they are tied to via the shotgun collar should be kept alive at all costs because their own life depends on it. In the end, it is still a game that can be won, but information is not given to the pig as to who the person who needs to be saved is. Pressure is built up upon the obsession to be heroic. And given that the obsession has tools like decisive strike, and other methods, if given the motivation they may be the hero after all. In the end the game is fair, they have the chance to get out if they lead their team to victory, or suffer an explosively surprising death should the link to their existence die. And with bonuses like 50% altruism points and 50% more heal speed, those mods can be boosted even more to allow the obsession to play the role of do or die hero.
@TAG said:
Hey, give @PigMainBigBrain the credit for that one. I just compressed the idea into a format more consistent with the templating of DBD (even if DBD's templating isn't always consistent :P ).
Your simplification of the game though isn't fair. The obsession being the target gives the pig an unfair advantage, since you could simply just focus the obsession, knowing full well that as soon as they die the unlucky soul with the shotgun collar will die shortly after. By giving the shotgun collar to the obsession automatically, it forces the pig to make a choice between 3 other survivors that she has no way of knowing are being challenged to survive.
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@Rebel_Raven said:
PigMainBigBrain said:@JanTheMan said:
Take a needle bath... Oh wait.
I wouldn't mind it. Throw a survivor in a needle bath, other survivors have to drag them out risking injuring themselves in the process. If they ever modify pig in any way I want more varieties in tools. I mean sure the beartrap is the signature, but given the scenarios everyone encounters in the SAW movies...theres room for so much more.....variety... I mean hell, what if I could have an add on that applied deep wounds when you failed a jigsaw box.......Or what if I had an add on that made survivors drunk as if they'd been hit with a clown bottle when they have a bear trap on.
Theres just so much possibility.....
She needs the shotgun shell collar worked in some how, IMO.
Easy.
New pink add on is obsession based.
Death is a Surprise Party: Start the trial with 3 bear traps. The obsession of the trial starts the trial with a shotgun collar, this shotgun collar is linked to 1 of the survivors randomly. The obsession may not have a bear trap placed on them, and may not remove the trap via jigsaw box until it is activated. The obsession has Aura reading of the survivor they are linked to and can see that survivors icon in blue. The obsession gains 50% more altruism while helping that survivor. The obsession also receives 50% more healing speed when healing that survivor. Should that survivor die the Shotgun collar activates. Upon finding the correct jigsaw box the collar is removed. On the other hand failing a jigsaw box results in the shotgun collar exploding. Attempting to leave through the exit gates results in the shotgun collar exploding. Should the survivor linked to the obsession survive via exit gates or hatch the collar is deactivated.
(I thought about making the shotgun collar explode immediately upon the linked survivor dying, but considering the human condition, that may lead to trolling Also since the boxes are preset, it allows some counter play for SWF groups who can memorize or attempt to memorize which jigsaw box they were at upon removal.)
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@Brawler said:
It's been almost a year since the release of the Pig and most of her mechanics are still broken.Amanda's Secret doesn't work as it's supposed to, addons that increase Skill Check chances still increase them only by 1/2/3% (which was even mentioned on one of the streams), Jigsaw Boxes sound is now map wide, the animation on the boxes is.. Broken? You don't put your hands in a box always and it's possible to escape having a Reverse Bear Trap on the head through the exit gate when you managed to wiggle. I should also say about Deviousness points for the Pig - it's hell difficult to get Deviousness maxed even with 4k.
So, can we expect any changes coming to her in close future?
I'm fully tilted in every single one of my games because of how jigsaw box sounds are omnipresent.... I can't play with these stupid global noises...
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@JanTheMan said:
Take a needle bath... Oh wait.I wouldn't mind it. Throw a survivor in a needle bath, other survivors have to drag them out risking injuring themselves in the process. If they ever modify pig in any way I want more varieties in tools. I mean sure the beartrap is the signature, but given the scenarios everyone encounters in the SAW movies...theres room for so much more.....variety... I mean hell, what if I could have an add on that applied deep wounds when you failed a jigsaw box.......Or what if I had an add on that made survivors drunk as if they'd been hit with a clown bottle when they have a bear trap on.
Theres just so much possibility.....
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@Goldengeartwo said:
I find that I run out of needed add-ons much quicker with The Pig than other Killers. And I think that this is because she has far less useful add-ons compared to her counterparts.The add-ons giving status effects to Survivors are decent, but we have others that are relatively worthless. Workshop Grease and Razor Wires increase Skill Check odds when interacting with Jigsaw boxes, and Interlocking Razor greatly increases the punishments for failing a check, but the skill checks are so easy that these aren't even the slightest useful.
Other add-ons really feel like they should be base kit. Namely, Combat Straps and Rule Set No.2. Amanda's Secret would be useful if it showed the auras of Survivors currently interacting with a Jigsaw Box rather than for a brief moment after the trap is removed.
Her Ulta-Rare's feel rather lacking compared to other Killers. Rule Set No.2 is alright but should be base kit. Amanda's letter has some serious drawbacks, the ability to see Survivors that are already really close to you doesn't really feel worth making your traps, one half of your power, worthless.
It just feels like The Pig could really use a good look into her add-ons. Removing some, improving others, adding some new ones. I think there are more useful add-ons you can give her, and more interesting Ulta-Rares. Add-ons giving traps the hindered status effect to Survivors, increasing the duration of Ambush. Like an add-on that gives The Pig a single unremoveable trap but extends the timer to 5 minutes. Or maybe longer. Or one that makes Ambush completely silent.
Agree with everything in this post.
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@Peasant said:
What are your thoughts folks?
I personally enjoy torturing survivors and letting at least 1 live, while killing the other 3. Thats just my style. I don't enjoy seeing a 4k by my own hands if I'm on pig. But when I'm playing other killers I just kinda go no mercy mode. Most the other killers don't entertain me the same way pig does.
Sometimes though, I can go into a game, and try to get people to survive, but mid match something just kicks in and you oops and kill too many. Or you try something dramatic, like where I down 4 survivors with masks on, and instead of picking one up and forcing them to do 1 gen and start all the traps, I oopsed and just hooked everyone....Its really hard to not kill people in this game, especially with the annoying sounds the survivors make. Or when they scream after a hook and I slash them, they think I'm BMing them but in reality I'm just trying to shut them up from all that screaming so I can hear other survivors nearby.
But if you wanna show mercy, make sure its to only 1. Survivors feel hopeful if they survive along with someone else, but if you kill all but one, the ones who lives becomes more humble. And maybe in a future game you see them, and its 1 less toxic bastard around. But make sure you get the right person....don't give a chance to live to the jake who's been camping hooks and pulling his team mates off without even trying to risk himself to guard them, no heals, no nothing just farming hook BP. Kill this ######### first! Or if you catch a survivor purposefully sandbag his team mates. Or if you catch a guy using emotes to gain sympathy, murder his ass.....
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@Jago said:
Ok so I got a lot of hours as a killer on this game, and seriously I don't understand why this perk is still in the game.It's not fun for anyone, it just gives an illusion of winning for the killer (to compensate the fact that you did nothing for the entire match) that gonna take back the game just because of this perk.
I'm playing solo survivors sometimes, and recently, each time, killer is camping / close patrolling and using Noed.
Ok, to each his own.
But, when looking closely to it... Is BHVR creating the feeling of insecurity for their killer base players ? Don't get me wrong I'm not talking about the 10% good killers that know what they're doing. But the mass. Thats what they mean by "the entity is fed by strong emotions" ? The subtle creation of inferiority complex and frustration for the people getting unconsciously addicted to this ? (generating toxicity).
And this results for the opposite side taking DS / tbagging. Because why not fight toxicity with toxicity right ? And the train goes on... Killers gonna cry, camp, "blablabla survivors rules"... getting answered "lel ez noob" etc etc...
I'm kind of getting tired of this game, I feel more and more this has been designed for 8-12 years old disguised into adult content using the "horror" atmosphere.
Am I alone thinking this game need a really deep change to be enjoyable ? Or do I just have to play civilization ?
I run NoED during my pig objective matches. When I feel like being an ass and playing my own game of jigsaw. I add 6 jigsaw boxes, 1 no ED which means a cleansing of all 5 dull totems, plus 5 gens to get through and an exit gate
with a grand total of 16 objectives to go through, with one of said objective being a life and death completion. If they don't complete "the game" I get to finish them off with noED. I usually take my time during these games, less eager to hook people, I take my time. Eventually though you get to the point where noED becomes overkill so some killer mains don't run it cause they just don't need it. They instead enjoy the sweat of try harding. Its a good perk, only survivors and pretentious killers complain about it and it only takes a few seconds to remove, but its a tool like any other perk, you can use it to build tension toward the end of the game. If you want this game to be a horror filled experience you need to take the steps needed to do so. If you don't then the game just becomes a moba......and mobas suck....Sometimes....this game isn't about you all the time. Sometimes, you have to be creative, and take something thats strong, and use it in a different way to build your match as entertainment for the survivor. If you want them to win you can let that happen, if you want them to lose miserably you can let that happen as well....but in the end....nobody remembers a game where you wiped the enemy. And assuming you play this game for entertainment, why would you wanna ruin your experience by having every game be a forgettable stomp fest? The games people remember most are the ones where they barely make it out alive.
You're in control as the killer but only up to a certain point, if you think a single perk is going to change this you haven't been killing long enough. Toxicity in this game comes from two places, survivors who watch Ochido, and killers who just can't accept they went into the game with a bad plan or bad plays....not perks, not add ons...
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Gotta be a bug where it messed up the directional sound of the laughs.
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@Nikkiwhat said:
Developers stated any movement speed increase would make Legion overpowered..... sighs heavilyIt would make him overpowered. Imagine pig with an instant lunge that could vault pallets and stayed at a constant 115 movespeed. Thats what you'd get.
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@aarongai said:
Legion is garbage, no matter how you think the "optimal" way to play them is.Tunnel one Survivor, and it takes you literal minutes to down them since you move at 110% move speed and can't use your power (because frenzy hits don't down anybody).
Spread out the damage, and everyone's injured, but nobody gets downed. In fact they just ignore being injured since Legion gets first hits easily, but virtually never gets last hits.
As a side note, not that I like to admit....
The legions biggest counter is resilience. You can literally guarantee you escape the initial chase and run him into another survivors gen, he then chases them, you mend then go rush gens with resilience and a toolbox......most Legions are not running thanatophobia to counter this because they cave into the perception of the numbers, which means.....free gen speed stacking....
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@Thadius said:
Just played legion and I can say for sure that the power is not used to down a survivor. Think of it like the pigs trap, it is used to slow survivors generator speed by making them worry about things like healing.Since survivors are most likely to be separated due to discordance, unable to hide in lockers due to iron maiden, and unable to save each other before one is hooked due to mad grit, then the only move for them is to heal (by themselves mind you) and waist time. If you want to down then simply chase a survivor closing distance with your power until that moment when your power runs out but they are next to you.
And may I just say the blood point mountain I am on after a game is just fabulous, you max deviousness, brutality, and hunting pretty much simultaneously. Just use an escape cake and you won't need to buy a copy of a teachable from the shop pretty much ever.
This of course is my opinion, and he may not be "top tier" but he is not worse that Freddy (cause he can hit survivors at will without his power).
You should also note that freddy is also one of the highest BP farmers in the game.
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@Theluckyboi said:
-Better movility than hillbilly
No......not only no but absolutely not. Hillbillys mobility lets him cross maps, which means he has immense map pressure and can easily start new chases quickly about as quickly as nurse and spirit. You can't do that with hillbilly.
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@Dwight_Confusion said:
I think we're all jumping the gun a bit.I mean he's very different, and average at best, but lets not act like he's the very worst killer ever and trash?
I mean... think about it.
I'm still very much undecided myself. I think he falls in that mid range. Or low mid. Around Pig/Leatherface... somewhere in that.
Again... 4 hours past release... it's tough to say.
What I would do is this...
give him 4.5 ms movement speed. (112%?)
Give his frenzy a slight longer duration by like 3 seconds. I think this really helps it. The design is great... just the core things might be weaker or off a bit.
I love the title, the music... the looks... the map... the perks, the names... the ideas.
The timing of his power isn't an issue at all. The cooldown, duration, speed, none of that matters cause without those add ons the power is still damn good, so good you don't even need most of those time add ons. He's not like the spirits initial release where you NEED NEEDED her power timer add ons or you'd get rekt. Thats not his issue, his issue is that even if you do use your power.....what then? There's no real risk for the survivor unless you tunnel them, you can't break away and chase other targets while the others are bleeding out they will just mend while you're chasing someone else, and as you're chasing that other person you can't even down them because the timer doesn't move while you're chasing them.......So you can't use your power to end the chase without being stunned repeatedly, and at best you can start the chase with it and then chase them with 110% speed and get looped for days.
Hag is set to this same speed, but at least she can teleport. Bunny mom is also the same speed, but at least her hatchets can down you. This group of legion though.....all bark and no bite...
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@blue4zion said:
The spirit and huntress are slower because of their power and the effectiveness to get hits and DOWN survivors.
Legion's power hardly downs survivors, but does grant one easy hit. But lacks the ability to down efficiently. Honestly should boost to 115%.I think it'd be better if they kept his speed the same and allowed him to use his power more effectively to down people. Like if they push him to 115 whats the point of even having the bleed out timer? I mean theres barely a point to it as is so his power may effectively end up useless if they bump his speed up.
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Id definately take that Amandas secret add on that would be nice instead of the current version of amandas letter. That is to say, if the current version of Amandas letter was a default part of her kit then your idea for the bonuses of Amandas Secret should replace the current pink add on. I don't think its a good idea to replace amanda's secret though, its still a good add on just maybe needs to be reworked so that it shows the aura of someone trying to remove the bear trap.
I wouldn't touch ruleset number 2 either as its made so that you jump scare people not the doll....
kinda odd suggestions in this post...
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@Dehitay said:
All thoughout the ptb, I've heard nothing but how Legion is the worst killer next to Freddy. But I played Legion for the first time today and I seriously have never finished chases faster. The first hit is easier than normal to get cause of Frenzy, and then you just break chase and follow blood trail with bloodhound without initiating, and then they go down faster than it would take to get a 2nd hit with a normal killer.There's 2 possibilities. Either no high rank player has discovered this strategy that was completely obvious to me. Or there's a counter to it that I have not run into yet. But all the discord servers I ask on seem unable to tell me what the counter is. I find it difficult to believe that I thought of something that top players couldn't figure out on their own. So what's the counter to Bloodhound Legion that I haven't run into yet?
The time it takes you to do that and track with bloodhound any other killer could have just tapped the person again.... I mean essentially you're really wasting your own time which means....survivors can just do gens as you wait for the bleed out? And don't think I'm some noob I've tried this strat before, its meh....considering how slow he moves in the first place.
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@Zarathos said:
I would recomend allowing ticking of multiple categories as many players will preference ticking what their good at as opposed to what their weak with.I thought about doing that at first but the poll is aimed at finding out who your main is, and if you do well vs SWF vs if you don't. If I had allowed multiples which I was about to do, it would skew the results. Since its aimed at finding out which killers are doing well vs swf vs the ones that do poorly. If you don't play a character most of the time aka main it the natural experience vs SWF groups may differ vs the person who has 10,000 freddy games. But that isn't to say that persons input is invalid, I made this forum post and a reddit post where you can leave your commentary and experiences with killers etc.
Hopefully I can spread this around a bit and get a bit more individual input.
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@The_Crusader said:
Definitely deserves a LOLremoved button rip....
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@Braduk said:
Since the Legion is coming out tomorrow I wanted to highlight the biggest problem that his design creates that the misplaced buffs have still left: perk diversity. What I mean is there's barely any perks that work on Legion so creating a good build for him is extremely difficult. His power does not work with the vast majority of decent perks in the game and outside of his power he is a M1 killer with 110% movement speed so good luck with that.For example, no Exposed perks are worth taking on Legion, because his power does not do anything with the Exposed effect. I understand that being able to down in one hit at ~125% movement speed would be broken, but it would have been nice if it at least did something, like made your swings take out more of the bar or something. But because of this, this knocks out the following perks from being usable:
No One Escapes Death
Devour Hope
Rancor
Make Your Choice
Iron Maiden (HIS OWN TEACHABLE)
Hex: Haunted GroundThe other major area of perks that he cannot use are healing-based perks. This is because Mending, despite the definition of mending when talking about a person is literally healing, is not considered a healing action, and they went as far as to remove other actions from the healing action pool when they should have done the opposite. You can argue that healing perks work because they still need to heal after, but the problem is, there is NO REASON to heal against Legion, because his power can't down you without 3-4 hits, and otuside of his power he's a 110% movement speed M1 killer so you can just loop him. That is why you see a lot of people in the PTB countering him with No Mither. This knocks out another rather large section of perks:
Nurse's Calling
Coulrophobia
Sloppy Butcher (unless you really want Bloodhound tracking but you can honestly use Bloodhound by itself)But beyond that there are just some various perks that do not work on him or are redundant for other reasons:
Stridor -- Devs said he's supposed to be deaf in Frenzy, if they stick to that this won't do anything
Save The Best for Last -- Does not impact Frenzy's attack cooldowns
Enduring -- Does not impact Frenzy's stun and you'll often be vaulting over pallets
Brutal Strength -- No point because pallet vaulting
Spirit Fury – As said with BS you won't be breaking pallets
Predator -- Can't see scratch marks in Frenzy
Tinkerer – Detrimental to Frenzy's location reveal
Unrelenting – Already has virtually no cooldown on missed Frenzy attacks
Insidious – No reason to camp with him
Bamboozle – Does not block pallets after vaulting
Franklin's Demise – Does not work on Frenzy
Play With Your Food – Already gets a speed boost with Frenzy and it takes too long to make a difference for it to be worth his normal state
Thrill of the Hunt – How are you going to protect multiple totems at 110% speed and your power has a long stun?And then there are simply bad perks you should never run anyways and also don't help help Legion:
Spies from the Shadows
Monstrous Shrine
Thanatophobia (though if buffed it would work wonderful on Legion but 15% max is not worth it)
Territorial Imperative
Surveillance
Shadowborn (while not bad, Monitor and Abuse is a straight upgrade)
Fire Up
Beast of Prey
Overwhelming PresenceSo what are we left with? Out of the 54 killer perks in the game Legion can make potential use out of...22. Less than half. And that is speaking generously. That is far less than any other killer in the game. A lot of them in this pool are extremely situational like Lightborn and Mad Grit. The only perk he can make more use of than most other killers is The Third Seal because of how fast you can get that first hit off, but that's ONLY if they are grouped up, and even then, it's a hex perk and Ruin is also mandatory, so good luck with that.
The only universally good perks he can make use of are Ruin, Agitation, and BBQ & Chili, nothing unique to him and just stuff every killer can use, because Legion's design does not allow build variety or perk diversity. If Mending was a healing action or if exposed perks did something with Frenzy or if Frenzy was compatible with more effects, it would be better, but as it stands now, Legion is poorly designed and works with barely any good perks.
(TLDR Basically a similar point made in a video by Bricky if you don't feel like reading:
https://youtu.be/QbjyMjw6gHA )I said this before during his ptb phase, this killer has probably the worst synergy with perks out of any killer in this game...which is...wow....
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I'm insta buying these perks.
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@MrMyers said:
@PigMainBigBrain said:
@MrMyers said:
Leave?You know what, the first time I bought this game, my first matches instantly threw me into the most cancerous toxic little [BAD WORD] I've ever seen that even trumped league of legends cancerous community. Everything from flashlights, to speed hacks, to cursing out their own team mates went down in those games....and that was from this year.....
I woulda left this game back then and got a refund.....but they had a decent report system so I dunno, maybe all those shits got banned....
People leaving, and telling people to leave, doesn't help my pigs queue times....nor does it paint this community with any sort of attraction for people to get into the game.I meant leave the lobby. Wait a minute for the swf to pass and create a new lobby. How hard is it?
my fault misread that. Which I can agree on that, but ultimately people wouldn't have to leave those kind of lobbies if more killers had the tools necessary to spread wide map pressure and get people off of gens. As a matter of fact, I just got an idea for a post related to this.
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@ClickNinja said:
Hey,This is my first post to these forums, but judging from how people act on other DBD forums (reddit, etc.) - I'm sure I'll be flamed to death for even suggesting something different - but I hope the Devs see this and at least consider it.
Let me start by saying that I'm a SURVIVOR main, I almost never play killer. I've had the game for over a year and haven't played killer nearly at all in that time. Just recently I started to get more into the idea of player killer for a game or two a night.
I've noticed that when playing survivor I have to wait SO LONG to get into a match - and then it's with a killer who's internet speed is in red and will have me bouncing all over the maps. So, quit and try again, it can take the better part of a half an hour just to get into a game.
Yet when I play killer I don't have to wait a minute before 4 SWF teabaggers instantly load in.
The point being: That lots of people are playing survivor and few playing killer - Probably due to not wanting to be out balanced and communicated by 4 SWF A-holes.
I'M READY FOR THE FLAMES HERE...
Because you suck, get better at killer, etc. - probably all coming from SWF survivor mains!
Here's the thing:
I'm a survivor main that doesn't ever play SWF, I get stuck with idiot teammates all the time, and don't have communication advantages - plus I can't coordinate with other people on what perks we'll use and items we'll use, etc. I respect the killer and don't teabag, etc. - I'm not 12 years old. And...
TO THE DEVS:
I'm a CASUAL player, from what I understand your core demographic. I like playing survivor better, yet I would play a game or two of killer a night being that I've had the game for long enough, but I tend not to because of the overall attitude and survivor advantages.
Could you please add a feature to block SWF for killers?!
I know that that may take away from what your bread and butter is - tons of tea bagging SWG groups who might not get as many matches to play, but...
There are plenty of killers who don't care and would play SWF anyway (especially at higher ranks).
Please do this for people like me who love the game, love your new ideas - but who may stop playing because of horrendously long wait times for survivor (only to play with idiots) and SWF groups overrunning and annoying killers.
I upvoted this post....but only because I think theres a bigger underlying problem revolving around certain killers lacking the versatility or pressure to deal with SWF groups, aka (the non threatening killers) the ones who are clearly broken or gimpy in some way that just can't stand up to managing more than 1 person at a time or who have a broken mechanic that can be ignored as part of their base kit. AKA freddy, and soon to be Legion. I've never had problems with SWF as pig, or spirit, and im pretty sure if I got my hands on doc he'd be in the same boat. But for killers who aren't them, and don't have the ability to manipulate survivors into killing themselves (which is honestly the best way to deal with SWF groups) they might leave the match with 2 kills tops. Or if the SWF group is just goofing around they get a 4k. Most SWF groups are goofing around or don't even go into a set of 4 people. Most of the time you're dealing with a two man team, or a 3 man team.
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@MrMyers said:
Leave?You know what, the first time I bought this game, my first matches instantly threw me into the most cancerous toxic little ######### I've ever seen that even trumped league of legends cancerous community. Everything from flashlights, to speed hacks, to cursing out their own team mates went down in those games....and that was from this year.....
I woulda left this game back then and got a refund.....but they had a decent report system so I dunno, maybe all those shits got banned....
People leaving, and telling people to leave, doesn't help my pigs queue times....nor does it paint this community with any sort of attraction for people to get into the game. -
@akbays35 said:
Whenever the Generators are powered or 3 survivors have been killed a dull totem on the map becomes active. The Hatch remains locked until the totem is broken and 30/45/60 second increase to open the escape gates.
EDIT: The last survivor gets 60/55/50 increased action speed for repairing, healing, and cleansing while the totem is active.
EDIT: The Killer's aura reading abilities are negated on activation.What is with this insane idea of giving a "PERK" 20 different drawbacks hidden behind 1 good idea for a perk.....have you and BHVR not learned that people don't use those perks?
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@powerbats said:
I'm NA pc and I've been matched with and against players from Japan, China, South Korea and in between and usually the ping is good. Although sometimes I think the killer or 1 of the survivors is playing from the bottom of the Mariana's Trench.In your case it's probably just the local infrastructure between you and the other people that's the most likely issue. You and the people connecting might have great local connections but the routing between you could suck.
If thats the case, he might have better luck with programs like ping zapper if things like that are even allowed.
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@Drazen said:
I live in pakistan and literally all survivors join are from thailand or japan having 300 or more ping there are like 100 out of 1 survivors who get less than 100 in my lobby and I cant seem to find a fix for itpakistan? oh geeze......uhhhh.....welp, unless this game has a huge following in the middle east I dunno what to tell ya you might be actually lacking players from your own region to go up against, and thus run into odd queues vs people in North America or Japan or something. Which im sure due to pure physics alone is going to always push you above 100.
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@Drazen said:
no no it was all ok till last 2 weeks I was getting survivors with less than 150-200 pings now they connect from other parts of worlds and all have 400 pings thats why it just becomes lobby simulator and whenever I send them a ticket they always have same reply that sorry for inconvenience we will forward your issue then gg nothing happens they literally have shittiest supportDoes the game check your global region on steam to see if you're in NA? If so maybe one of your steam settings jigged it up.
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@Goldengeartwo said:
PigMainBigBrain said:@Goldengeartwo said:
Yes, even worse than Freddy.
The Pig was a Killer I used the most back when I was newer to the game. Stopped using her at around Rank 7 in favour of trying out different Killers. For a long while in Rank 1, I started using Doctor, Hag, Myers, Freddy. All Killers that I enjoy, and believe all can be relatively strong. Then, after finally acquiring all the Killer perks I wanted, I decided to go back to my roots and play Pig again. Good grief is she AWFUL. Going back to The Pig after playing other, better Killers was hard. One half of her power is an RNG-based minor inconvenience. The other is good for nothing more than a potential grab off a gen at the start of the match where your vision is abscured and your movement is slow, zero terror radius doesn't compensate for the weak awareness and map pressure and the RBT to slow the game down depend entirely on chance (mostly with them getting taken off in 1 box). And oh boy, is that Ambush bad. 9 times out of 10 it is better to just stand up and attack...a unreliable mindgame around palettes against a weak survivor is the only use for it. It also doesnt help that i personally find Pig boring to play. Because one half of her ability doesn't require much input on your end and the other half is so niche, you're walking around as a basic Killer with no power. This means you get looped HARD. Of course I use Enduring, Bamboozle and Spirit Fury to counteract this, but it doesn't make it any less boring and frustrating.
So yeah. My two cents on The Pig. I honestly enjoy playing Freddy more than her, and believe that he is actually better, even if not by a large margin. I'll be happy to play other, better and more fun Killers who can handle skilled SWF groups much better. Really hope there are buffs planned for her, cause if you ask me? Pig is THE WORST Killer in Dead By Daylight.
You waste 3 perk slots to make up for bad pallet looping and chasing ability instead of using those slots to slow down the game, get insta downs, cause blinds, slow gens, or even track for surprise plays. And you wonder why she feels bad.... you're playing her like the trapper, and she isn't the trapper....
Try facing skilled SWF and you'll see why being built for loops is useful, especially on Killers with weak powers or powers that don't help in the chase.
<---------PIG MAIN
BIG BRAIN!!!
You don't need to be built for loops to kill SWF groups, I've done it on plenty of occasions and I build 0 perks for loops. The only thing you need to do as pig is to learn how to mind game pallets. And all you need is 1 add on...combat straps.. The most basic add on and cheapest and you likely have dozens of them. If you're building NOTHING BUT pallet perks but lack the ability to loop pallets and get quick downs without those perks, you're....you're just stunting your growth. You start every match with 4 ruins, and vs certain SWF groups 1 helmet is enough for them to stop gens entirely giving you free reign to degress gens get insta downs, get several hooks, slug, and do all kindsa ######### in between that time. Time being the ultimate factor when you're playing the pig. I can stunt my games into lasting 28 minutes.... I haven't had time to calculate the longest match I've been able to drag out, but that was the latest one from an SWF group that ended in a 4k. And I run goofy perks like knock out, sloppy butcher, thanatophobia, bitter murmer, noED, caulrophobia, nurses calling, overcharge, distressing, haunted ground, literally I run every perk except!!! Perks that revolved around pallets.
You just have to think outside of the box and put survivors hands INSIDE of the box my friend.
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@Goldengeartwo said:
Yes, even worse than Freddy.The Pig was a Killer I used the most back when I was newer to the game. Stopped using her at around Rank 7 in favour of trying out different Killers. For a long while in Rank 1, I started using Doctor, Hag, Myers, Freddy. All Killers that I enjoy, and believe all can be relatively strong. Then, after finally acquiring all the Killer perks I wanted, I decided to go back to my roots and play Pig again.
Good grief is she AWFUL.
Going back to The Pig after playing other, better Killers was hard. One half of her power is an RNG-based minor inconvenience. The other is good for nothing more than a potential grab off a gen at the start of the match where your vision is abscured and your movement is slow, zero terror radius doesn't compensate for the weak awareness and map pressure and the RBT to slow the game down depend entirely on chance (mostly with them getting taken off in 1 box). And oh boy, is that Ambush bad. 9 times out of 10 it is better to just stand up and attack...a unreliable mindgame around palettes against a weak survivor is the only use for it.
It also doesnt help that i personally find Pig boring to play. Because one half of her ability doesn't require much input on your end and the other half is so niche, you're walking around as a basic Killer with no power. This means you get looped HARD. Of course I use Enduring, Bamboozle and Spirit Fury to counteract this, but it doesn't make it any less boring and frustrating.
So yeah. My two cents on The Pig. I honestly enjoy playing Freddy more than her, and believe that he is actually better, even if not by a large margin. I'll be happy to play other, better and more fun Killers who can handle skilled SWF groups much better. Really hope there are buffs planned for her, cause if you ask me? Pig is THE WORST Killer in Dead By Daylight.
You waste 3 perk slots to make up for bad pallet looping and chasing ability instead of using those slots to slow down the game, get insta downs, cause blinds, slow gens, or even track for surprise plays. And you wonder why she feels bad.... you're playing her like the trapper, and she isn't the trapper....
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@Countfunkular said:
Okay everybody it's been awhile but let's still be honest a shape-shifting killer would get destroyed and survive with friends and wouldn't be very efficient and solo playEverything gets destroyed by SWF except Nurse, Billy and Spirit who have the most optimal chase end times in the game. But I think we alaso overestimate SWF even at rank 1... some of these survivors at rank 1 even in an SWF team full of rank 1s are not all there sometimes. Like we really give waaaay too much credit to survivors and not enough credit to killers. Some killers obviously can't hang ala (pours one out for the boy Freddy) But some killers who are even considered trash tier like Leatherface can still demolish SWF groups.....
So why are we always painting SWF as some monster that can't be destroyed? When in essence SWF gives the survivors a permanent 2 perk advantage through a permanent bond, and a permanent kindred. Both of which are perks that as a killer have never slowed me down in the slightest.....
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@Poweas said:
Slug for pressure.^ This, knock out slugging and blindness pushes altruism, Altruism= more survivors to smash in the face.
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I stopped at 100% move speed.....HAAAAAAAAAAAAIL NO!
Then I stopped and kept reading. 125% movespeed while crouched......
As attractive as that sounds, she can't see very well while crouched.... I don't want that vision to be my main mobility function, its cancer.
I do like the idea of being able to jump over pallets, but I can see this leading to long pallet standoffs and people not dropping them during a loop....which can be bad....
I like the idea of the roar sound only triggering when you hit a survivor....THATS SCARY, AND THATS WHAT THIS GAME NEEDS!
Killing people who have a beartrap because their team mates did a second gen is a no....
Survivors play against each other too much for this to be fair.
Increasing survivor movement speed while they wear a trap?!?! NOOOOOOOOO 110%? hell no!
Only pig can see timers.... I can agree with that, it would actually give some use to those resources they spent having the helmet beep and lights go off indicating you're almost out of time. Theres no reason for survivors to see this precise timer.Out of all the stuff you mentioned you failed to mention that a simple buff like making rulset no.2 a default part of her kit would be more viable.
She doesn't need changes to her lunge.
Sound queues sure, good idea.
Movement speed while crouching 100%? Sure good idea.
Jigsaw boxes cannot be seen until activated? Good idea.
Failing a Jigsaw box injures the survivor but never downs them? Good idea.Things that could make her borderline op, (Adjusting trap timers)
More jigsaw boxes? Sure. More add ons and status effects for traps? Absolutely. I personally would love a trap that gave the person with the trap on full blind and knockout status. They couldn't have their aura read, and they couldn't read anyone elses auras. Call it the Anesthetic Blindfold.
Or an add on that made your helmets slow the move speed of the person wearing them, making it that much harder to reach the next jigsaw box.
Or an add on that made your helmets scream within range of other survivors, say 10 meters if you have the helmet on, it makes you paranoid and scream revealing the aura of you and the survivor near you for 3 seconds. Call it Cathinone Injections add on.
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@No_Cluie_Louis said:
I completely disagree on pig. She belongs is B+Taters gonna tate
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Also side note of consideration, the chucky dolls are about 3 feet high last I checked? Which is about as high off the ground if not slightly higher than the pig during crouch, and hag. That'd be a safe height to put him at if they put him in the game. I also like someone elses post where the ghost of Charles comes out to lift up survivors to put them on hooks.
I'm still trying to grasp the clone thing, the latest Chucky movie I watched was Cult of Chucky, so I have no idea how this clone thing factors into his powers?
Another side note, why not take his powers a bit further and invite Tiffany to help as part of his power set?
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@FayeZahara said:
We all know chucky isn't viable cause of his size. He wouldn't feel good cause of regular framework of killers. The fact chucky creator liked my idea on twitter. I think i got a solution that might just work.Charles Lee Ray to save his life put his soul into a good guy doll. He also learned later he can transfer all of his being into other good guy dolls also. While browsing internet an ad popped up for a custom built fetish doll. Chucky decided to put his soul in a bigger chucky doll model. Now he is ready to go on a rampage with his army of chuckys. That is when the entity pulled him into his realm with his chucky clones.
His power would to remote control these small chuckys to grab and hold a survivor down with stabs. Then if he gets there before they escape small chucky. He will grab survivors and transfer chucky doll soul into the survivor. Now the survivor can earn bloodpoints by trying to stab and kill survivors like a killer.
Wait....I was all on board and knew what was going on until "Survivor can earn bloodpoints by trying to stab and kill survivors" Wuthow?
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@Zarathos said:
So i wanted to put the question forward why is it that i have to endure 15 minute queue times just to play killer. It's ridiculous at the point of 5 minutes i should be getting players regardless of rank. Everywhere i have look for solutions i get the same answer depip or derank. Do you realize how messed up that in order to play the game i have to waste survivor offerings and time. Just so i can get a game without waiting 15 minutes. Some solutions I have are as follows- After 8 mins or 10 mins killer is given priority over others and can get players from 10 ranks back from your current rank.
- Give a bp bonus to a side that is lacking. The bonus increases dependent on the scale of the queue times.
- Give us information on what queue are like for both roles.
- Reward players for achieving a high rank. This could be iridescent shards at the end of a season. The amount increases dependent on the rank you achieved.
I encourage Behavior to try these solutions out as even streamers are brazenly admitting to deranking just to get games and for the inevitable survivors are to weak let me state that as survivor my escape count is very high with many games making it to exit gates minus nurse games which are sometimes winnable (all dependent on nurses skill.)
Honestly, as a person in America, I don't usually have to deal with outrageously long queue times unless its an event. But depending on where you're from I can totally sympathize. I mean on top of having to wait for people to join, and hope nobody is at 300 ping (I just back out of lobby as killer at this point cause I can't kick people out for having garbage internet) I could see why. Maybe having a wider pool of ranks to pull from if you've been sitting with an open lobby for ages is a good idea. And obviously have a way to grant bonus BP or something to the lower ranked survivors as a sort of compensation, wouldn't be a terrible idea or some form of compensation. I will say though, before they address killer queue times and try to put something like this in, they should balance queues where survivors are trying to boost their friends. Where you end up with a rank 1 survivor and 3 rank 20s vs a rank 20 hag with 2 perks at level 1..... That kind of game I've seen too much of, and its not fair for the survivors because they aren't getting the experience they need to improve themselves, and its not fair for the killer because they aren't progressively learning by going against someone who's just outrageous flashlighting and power looping new killers.
I think if you're a survivor at rank 1 trying to boost your friends, you need to get slapped into a game with a rank 1 killer.
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@thekiller490490 said:
Before you shout NOED is already killers DS, NOED doesn't punish good survivors. DS punishes good killers.I have no want for this perk to actually exist.
Decisive Destruction
Once per match, you can destroy a completed generator. Upon destruction, the generator will be regressed by 50/75/100%. (Tiers increase regression)
I have no want for this perk to exist. What are your ideas on 100% OP perks
I'd use it, my pig loves giving people extra obstacles. Lets face it survivors are bored with just 5 gens. So you give them 5 gens, 4 beartraps, 6 jigsaw boxes and blow up a gen randomly in game forcing them to do another.
ANYTHING WOULD BE BETTER THAN RUIN AND TRASH HEXES!
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@SteveyHooves said:
Im tired of tunneling being frowned upon Because it's to easy/cheap.... well I want to win and but no can't tunnel or else you get hated by every player.False. The idea of tunneling is a result of poor survivor plays. And survivors who camp the hook for the save. Theres no way the person on the hook can kick the person trying to save them in the head to butt them off. So the person saved, (unless they're being saved by someone who prepared to save them) gets boned. And by prepared to save them I mean they actually carry skills like we'll make it and borrowed time.
I've done some time on survivor even though its not my main skillset, and I have to say, if you play survivor and have plans to "save" anyone and don't bring borrowed time or we'll make it in the heat of a match.....don't save anyone. Just go do gens or whatever goofy gimmick your build planned around but don't save people cause you're literally setting your own team mates up to die.
After a hook save, a killer returns to the area to see whos still around..... if the selfish jerk who saved didn't do a real save aka (borrowed time or we'll make it) and the person saving just hides somewhere making 0 noise and going immersed, while the person they saved is screaming in agony because they're still injured, the killer is going to follow that noise. So you, as the person making the save, you need to do your job or just not bother.
This has been a public service announcement for borrowed time and we'll make it...... Treat your team mates like something besides points, be a pal, and do safe and meaningful saves.....