Peanits
Peanits
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- Peanits
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Very nicely done. You did a great job showing the balance changes in a nice and simple way. It's a nice little summary of all the major points.
I approve.
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The first one sounds a little too random for my liking. It seems like most of the time you'd be occupied with someone else already and probably miss the aura of the survivor who's exposed. Beyond that, I can also see it being infuriating for the game to randomly switch it to you mid-chase just before you take a hit. Maybe if there was something directing it towards a certain person, making it a little more reliable and controllable. That way it won't feel like luck is making your perk work/not work, but rather your actions or the actions of the survivors.
The second one is fantastic. I can see that being really interesting and making rescues take longer.
The third, I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, it rewards you for leaving the hook. On the other hand, it punishes you for leaving the hook if you've already hit someone. To a lesser extent, I also feel like this is a little too close to Make Your Choice, which already exposes the rescuing survivor, and it much more consistent.
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There is no officially announced date yet, however, it's supposed to be a summer blood hunt, and summer technically ends on September 21st.
So y'know, take that how you will, the window of time is pretty small.
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Going to go ahead and lock this now. Like someone or not, I still can't allow a thread that only serves to call someone out and shame them.
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The ruling on that is that blocking only a survivor with a trap- while scummy as hell- it's at least strategy (even if it's a bad strategy that's going to cost you a ton of time while generators pop off left and right), but if you're blocking someone without a trap, that's a no-no.
TL:DR, just trap guy, scummy, but it's not bannable. Someone without a trap, no, don't do that.
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@Soren said:
Thanks a lot for your answers!@Peanits said:
Hasn't stopped me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯The rule is basically that you gotta' be a good example. You're free to post as you want, but you also need to make sure that you're constructive and civil about it, because you have to lead by example.
Oh, that reminds me. A thing "I" (any mod) could do - that I saw in a zetetic forum, where the mods were also part of the controversial threads - is to differenciate regular answers from "mod" answers with a "mod" tag (between brackets, like a bold/italic tag) so that at one point people know what they can discuss without worry (because it's the player who talks) and what is a neutral mod answer with the purpose to calm down any derailed thread!
I think it's a good tip for anyone that wants to apply to be a mod but is afraid to how they should behave. But I guess, if they weren't banned yet, they already have a proper behaviour?
That's a neat idea. We have something a little different currently, where our warnings and such go through a private system (at most, showing a "This person was warned for this." message on their post). But I could definitely see that sort of thing being useful while trying to get a thread back on topic. You should stick that in forum feedback.
We'd definitely check for any bans first. That's almost an instant no. Although if it's been a long time since someone was banned and they have improved their behavior since, we could forgive 'em.
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I'd be okay with it if it was a point based system, where you have a maximum amount of "perk points" to spend and more powerful perks cost more points, while weaker perks would cost less (and allow you to equip more of them).
Though I feel like adding a fifth slot as is would remove a lot of build diversity and allow people to too easily become a jack of all trades.
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@pauloandrade22 said:
@Peanits said:
@Soren said:
@Peanits said:
(I would not recommend doing it just for a shirt. If you're doing it for some cosmetic, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.)Completely forgot about that one. Edgy blue Nea is still best Nea ;p
On a serious note. Someone asked if the forums will be harsher because of some mods behaviour. My question is the opposite: does being a mod prevent you to participate in controversial threads? It might sound silly, but I have the feel I don't see mods that often on steam for example, I know they are active behind the scene, but it's like they censor themselves on purpose to not give a bad impression of their team...
Hasn't stopped me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
The rule is basically that you gotta' be a good example. You're free to post as you want, but you also need to make sure that you're constructive and civil about it, because you have to lead by example.
Will you guys make a thread or somesuch for when you need new volutary mods? Because i really enjoy DBD and i would like to help a bit (i can't be very active tho because im using an very old PC tho).
When it's time, it will be officially announced.
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@Soren said:
@Peanits said:
(I would not recommend doing it just for a shirt. If you're doing it for some cosmetic, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.)Completely forgot about that one. Edgy blue Nea is still best Nea ;p
On a serious note. Someone asked if the forums will be harsher because of some mods behaviour. My question is the opposite: does being a mod prevent you to participate in controversial threads? It might sound silly, but I have the feel I don't see mods that often on steam for example, I know they are active behind the scene, but it's like they censor themselves on purpose to not give a bad impression of their team...
Hasn't stopped me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
The rule is basically that you gotta' be a good example. You're free to post as you want, but you also need to make sure that you're constructive and civil about it, because you have to lead by example.
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@not_Queen
Just going to leave this here.
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I wouldn't mind it. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use it because it's basically a "worst case scenario" perk, and worse yet, one that encourages you to do the one thing you wouldn't want to do in that situation: A generator. It's a perk that allows you to do generators faster and show the killer exactly where you are.
It might spice up the end game a little bit more, giving the survivor a reason to not just go for the hatch. It wouldn't fix hatch standoffs on its own, but it would allow the survivor to at least speed up that stalemate where they know they can't get the hatch and the killer absolutely refuses to leave the hatch because that would be a free escape.
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Comment approval is based on a spam filter.
Basically there's a hidden filter that flags posts that it thinks are spam (either duplicate posts, excessively long posts, posts containing certain keywords, etc.). If it thinks your post is spam, it will take it and put it into a spam queue. At some point a moderator will come back and verify your post- or reject it if it is spam.
So the short version: It's just the spam filter falsely flagging your post. As long as you aren't spamming, it'll show up as soon as a mod can check the queue.
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@ChraizE said:
@Peanits said:
@ChraizE said:
@Jesya said:
getting over it is the reason why people think this community is so toxic. people allow this type of behavior to continue.Exactly, the fact that nobody gets banned for such horrendous behaviour speaks volumes of where the devs are at with this. One of the most toxic communities in all of gaming history hands down.
People do get banned for it. I personally dealt with the report the OP is talking about. OP can confirm if you don't believe me, this chat log will sound familiar (names removed for anonymity):
Person 1: [bad words]
Person 2: gg
Person 2: dunked
Person 1: just wanted the bbq hook
Person 1: [BAD WORD]100% serious, we see chat logs, report them in game, it will be dealt with.
Are you telling me you guys are ACTUALLY starting to ban people in the harassment category? Heck I might even come back if that's the case. About time somebody started holding people accountable for their behaviour.
BHVR just hired a whole team of ACMs (associate community managers) just to handle reports. It's very real.
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@ChraizE said:
@Jesya said:
getting over it is the reason why people think this community is so toxic. people allow this type of behavior to continue.Exactly, the fact that nobody gets banned for such horrendous behaviour speaks volumes of where the devs are at with this. One of the most toxic communities in all of gaming history hands down.
People do get banned for it. I personally dealt with the report the OP is talking about. OP can confirm if you don't believe me, this chat log will sound familiar (names removed for anonymity):
Person 1: [bad words]
Person 2: gg
Person 2: dunked
Person 1: just wanted the bbq hook
Person 1: #########100% serious, we see chat logs, report them in game, it will be dealt with.
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Just report them in game. Chat logs are saved. No need to screenshot it.
If someone is actually threatening you, you should contact support (https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us) immediately. Report them in game as well. This will make it easier to find the match you're talking about.
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@switch said:
Deja is pretty decent to avoid the famous 3 gen strat.
A few of those could use some buffs.I find it's pretty easy to do without the perk, though. Find a few close together, go for the middle one first, or alternatively, once one generator goes off, try to get one on the opposite side of the map.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
And the mod finds some flimsy excuse to put me in jail because someone challenges him and they refuse to address my points."If you disagree with a mod we'll silence you!"
MFW
No, because you decided to insult people with autism in a separate thread, which came up as I was going through reports. If I banned/jailed everyone who disagreed with one of my posts, half this forum would probably be banned by now. I play devil's advocate in loads of threads.
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Boy that's a lot of insults. Warnings/restrictions issued, locking this now.
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The Special Edition is the only version I've seen on consoles.
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It's not the bot that approves it. The bot flags posts it thinks are spam, and then a person has to come along and review each one.
We've been having spam attacks lately, and we're tweaking settings in an effort to catch spam and not catch legitimate posts. It's an ongoing thing, but it's tricky to find a spot where the spam doesn't get through while all the legitimate posts do, so sometimes it may flag a post as spam when it's not.
Sorry, wish I could get to them faster, but I've been busy lately and usually only have time to check the queue once per day.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
If you carelessly pick someone up at a pallet without searching the area first, yes, you probably will be stunned. There is always a degree of risk in picking someone up in a pallet, SWF or not.
I'm not ignoring your point by any means, I'm offering counter points to your argument. To say that I've never seen that strategy in my 2+ years playing and watching this game is anecdotal, but I don't seem to be alone here judging by the reactions. If someone is running in circles letting you hit them, that's not really a problem.
1: Your counter points have consisted of "I have never seen this. And it's fine as-is." Nothing more than that.
Let me ask you this: do you think Blood Lodge is fine? Do you think the placement of pallets and how the map is designed is fair? How about the building in Crotus Penn Asylum? Or how about this spot?
If you think this is all fine then I have some news for ya; Killers HATE these spots/Blood Lodge because they're badly designed. It's very clear that some people on the dev team or affiliated with the dev team live in a bubble. Perhaps you should watch how other Killers play the game instead of staying in rank 19 or strictly playing KYF or SWF?
2: who tf cares if some rando hits Vote Up on your post? Do you think that somehow validates ######### opinions? If the mods of the forum left the Vote Down options on the forum then I'd think you'd see your posts being equally down voted. You rigged the forum to silence down voting of ######### opinions.
You're assuming I've never played as a high rank killer, which is just straight up untrue. Right now you're putting words in my mouth and making assumptions with no basis. If you went back and read my earlier posts, you'd see that I was not denying any potential balance issues, I only said that this video in the OP was not a great example of it because the killers were not very good.
I'm a reasonable guy. If you have a video of someone running the "sprint around a pallet and get hit" strategy, I'm willing to check it out. But in my hundreds of hours of playing and thousands of hours of sifting through matches for reports, I have never seen someone do that.
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@Sandt21 said:
Peanits said:I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out.
Another thing to consider: I don't think survivors should be able to search Jigsaw Boxes until their trap activates via a generator being completed. (The trap should also activate automatically if all generators have already been completed.) Here's my reasoning: The reverse bear trap is part of jigsaw's "game". To win the "game", survivors have to remove the trap. However, in continuity with the saw films, the game starts when the reverse bear trap's timer begins. So, why do survivors get the chance to end the "game" before the"game" even begins?
I think this would make for a good add-on, honestly. Maybe a very-rare.
Though lore-wise, Amanada actually (SPOILERS TO OLD MOVIES AHEAD)
failed here test and broke the rules. She killed people when she should not have, they were supposed to be set free if they completed their test.
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@azazer said:
Peanits said:@Orion said:
@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.
This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
I do not. The pig is not a kill power killer, he's a stealth and delay killer. I think it does what it's supposed to very well most of the time- pulling people off of generators and forcing them to take off their trap (or die), or stay in the game longer than they'd like. She's also got another ability on top of that, allowing her to go completely silent and get an extended lunge.
I think making the RBT a killing tool would be making the pig into something she's not, and changing the way she plays at its core. More importantly, I can see it being miserable to play against if getting unlucky with the boxes basically meant an instant death with nothing you can do about it, while the pig wanders around the map chasing other people.
I really feel like the best solution in this case is to help it do what it's supposed to do: Stall. Get people off of generators and keep them there. The issue here is RNG. Someone can get it off with only one box, and that's something I feel should be changed. Ensuring a minimum amount of time to take off the trap guarantees that she has a certain degree of power, rather than leaving it completely up to luck.
Wouldn't the proposed RNG fix give even more power to the survivor? They can see the layout of the boxes. so by checking a box guaranteed to be a dud, the smart choice being the one farthest from the others, they game the system into assuring the key is in a more tightly packed area saving them travel time. This is a huge advantage if you're timer isn't already running.
For my two cents I think the blindness status effect should apply to jigsaw boxes as well. They're plenty of audio cues for the boxes when you are near and they are easy to spot. Being spoon fed their location is why they are so easy. We could leave the rest and still come up with enough RBT deaths to satisfy killers while map awareness and some dumb luck will see the rest through
Possibly? The thing is, it's all nebulous. It's impossible to look at it and just say, "This is the box you should search first." There's far too many factors that could contribute to it. e.g. How many generators are near the other boxes, where is the killer currently, how is the killer playing? If the killer knows you searched that one all the way across the map for example, they could easily guard the remaining three close by ones while protecting nearby generators as well and make it very difficult for you to remove your trap.
I would imagine it goes back to the overall strategy of the game. To each their own. You may want to do that, but others may go for one of the clustered ones first much like generators, to prevent it from being too easy to guard. Others might just go from the closest one to the next, just to get that dud out of the way ASAP and give themselves as much time as possible to find the key.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
Three safe pallets isn't the issue in that instance. 15 seconds running around each and they'd be down. The survivor here gained extra time by making the killer miss attacks and using that fatigue to gain distance. Had the killer taken a stun and respected the pallets less, they would have burned through them significantly faster.
Again (again), don't mean to discredit the point, but this isn't a great example of that because one player is clearly better than the other here.
Wrong. Let's pretend the Killer player wasn't using Billy. Here's the thing, Survivors are not obligated to throw down a pallet unless specifically it's Billy or a Leatherface that just got Bloodlust. Sometimes they'll just take the hit to keep the pallet up, especially when that pallet is next to other safe pallets or windows or if it's a god pallet like the shack pallet or the pig statue one in Coldwind.
15 seconds running around a safe pallet is charitable. It all depends on the spot and if you're using Billy/Nurse or maybe Huntress. If not, they can just run to another pallet and -again- not be obligated to throw down the pallet.
INB4 "Oh, if they take a hit to keep a god pallet then that's fine! That means that they're playing risky and just need one more hit to go down!" What risk is involved if there's tons of pallets nearby like in Blood Lodge? Or if they have Sprint Burst and can easily get to another spot? Or if they have DS and they're guaranteed to get away practically?
INB4 "Oh, if they have DS just break the chase!" What if they're not the Obsession and still have DS and I have no idea if they have it or not?
INB4 "Well, if they don't have DS you can still break the chase instead of getting looped!" Which means that I lose out on ranking up because the rank system really only rewards you if you chase someone and down them (not even getting into it screwing over chainsaw Killers). Not to mention that not chasing them just allows them to easily run off and heal and keep baiting the Killer to chase them.
Had a match just like that in Pallet Lodge. Two Survivors left. One gen remaining. TONS of pallets still up in the center of the map. I kept patrolling the gens and would go after one guy at a gen but I just could net get a chainsaw if it weren't one thing it's another like Sprint Burst or just not getting into that position where you can chainsaw him. If I M1 him, guess what? He runs off to the cancerous pallet land and baits me to chase him which allows the other guy to get a gen completed.The match took at least 30 minutes to finish because they just keep running back to the pallet land.
In the meantime as you're dealing with all this BS gens are getting done fast. And even IF and WHEN you catch them you still have to wait 2 precious minutes for them to die on a hook.
Y'see, you lost me here, because they are absolutely obligated to throw down the pallet if they don't want to get hit. They either throw it down and use that pallet to avoid a hit, or they don't throw it down and get hit. I haven't ever seen the "run around a pallet, don't throw it down, get hit and run to a different pallet" strategy come into play very much- and probably for good reason. The only thing making a pallet loop a pallet loop is the pallet. If you don't pallet in the pallet loop, you're just running around an object, and this is a non-issue.
As the killer, you are the obligation. If you're afraid of getting stunned and respect the pallet and they capitalize on that to get an extra loop, that's because they outplayed you. (I don't mean to say that running around the pallet is skillful, but the mindgame of throwing it down or faking you out is, and that's a skill both sides have to master.) They saw the opportunity to keep running and they took it. If you power through and force them to drop it, that pallet is out of play.
Thanks for the LOL's though.
I explained as succintly as possible why they are sometimes not obligated to throw down a pallet. I will quote myself:
"Survivors are not obligated to throw down a pallet unless specifically it's Billy or a Leatherface that just got Bloodlust. Sometimes they'll just take the hit to keep the pallet up, especially when that pallet is next to other safe pallets or windows or if it's a god pallet like the shack pallet or the pig statue one in Coldwind.
15 seconds running around a safe pallet is charitable. It all depends on the spot and if you're using Billy/Nurse or maybe Huntress. If not, they can just run to another pallet and -again- not be obligated to throw down the pallet.
INB4 "Oh, if they take a hit to keep a god pallet then that's fine! That means that they're playing risky and just need one more hit to go down!" What risk is involved if there's tons of pallets nearby like in Blood Lodge? Or if they have Sprint Burst and can easily get to another spot? Or if they have DS and they're guaranteed to get away practically?"
It's very simple to break down but I'll try a 2nd time though I doubt you will still understand:
A GOOD Survivor is not obligated to throw down a good pallet depending on:
1: the proximity the pallet is to other pallets. Blood Lodge or Wrecker's Yard is a good example of this. Especially the shack in Wrecker's Yard being right next to at least 2-3 safe pallet loops.
2: what perks they have and what kind of Killer they're facing and if they're SWF. Even if they don't have DS sometimes they'll take the hit if they're friends are waiting nearby so then if the Killer downs them at a pallet the friend will come on by and save them with a pallet or a flashlight.
3: it takes 2 minutes to kill someone on a first hook and the whole point of looping is to buy the other Survivors time. If they loop the Killer for 2 minutes that's at least 2 gens done. And experienced Survivors know where all the gens spawn anyway.
If you still cannot understand then that's on you. Because I've seen it happen multiple times. Granted, almost always happens at rank 1 so rank 20 players that know the devs don't see this at all.
The LOL responses are as close as I can get to down vote because you very sensitive people have taken away any kind of ability to down vote terrible posts, like yours.
Proximity to other pallets is a non-factor in this. I have yet to see anyone, even at rank one, run around a pallet, not throw it down, get hit, and then run to another pallet nearby. The entire purpose of the pallet is to avoid the hit. If they are running around a pallet without throwing it down and you hit them, I sincerely fail to see the issue here as you are doing exactly what you set out to do- except they aren't even putting up a fight.
Flashlight saves are incredibly hard to pull off against a competent killer these days. The pickup animation is significantly shorter giving less time to get into position, the blind angles are tighter- again, giving less time to get into position, and (for a long time now) you have full control over which direction you face as you pick up a survivor, and there are no instant blinds. You can very easily face a wall and hard counter flashlights (even if you can't, you can chase them off a little and then head back, facing the opposite way so the survivor would have to sprint all the way around you to get the blind). The only time anyone should ever get a flashlight save is if they're already in position, you're in the open with nothing to face, and the person with the flashlight is undetected (you don't know they're there).
Sir, you have very selective reading. I clearly said:
"2: what perks they have and what kind of Killer they're facing and if they're SWF. Even if they don't have DS sometimes they'll take the hit if they're friends are waiting nearby so then if the Killer downs them at a pallet the friend will come on by and save them with a pallet or a flashlight."
It's a very common strategy, especially among SWF groups to purposely get downed at a pallet so their friends can throw it down to save them. Not to mention body blocking. But that's fine too I guess, right?
Edit: I'm also amused that you completely ignore my point and a very common complaint about the game is that there's too many pallets that spawn too closely together.
If you carelessly pick someone up at a pallet without searching the area first, yes, you probably will be stunned. There is always a degree of risk in picking someone up in a pallet, SWF or not.
I'm not ignoring your point by any means, I'm offering counter points to your argument. To say that I've never seen that strategy in my 2+ years playing and watching this game is anecdotal, but I don't seem to be alone here judging by the reactions. If someone is running in circles letting you hit them, that's not really a problem.
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@Master said:
@Peanits said:
@Master said:
@Peanits said:
Last I checked, it is no longer whitelisted. That doesn't mean that it's banned, but it's now use at your own risk. When it was whitelisted, you were safe to use it, but now it's fallen back into shady territory. I use italics to put emphasis on stuff.So basically we won't actively hunt you down and ban you for using MLGA. But if EAC starts to detect it and bans you for it, we won't be able to help you.
@Lowbei said:
Jonathanskilz said:Is using a 3rd party app that affects the way the game is played, against the rules?
Only if they can detect it.
Ha, if.
By the TOS, not being on a whitelist means that usage of such a 3rd party programm is bannable.
As a mod you should know that (or did they change the TOS and I am wrong now?)This is not true. The whitelist is a "Go ahead, use it all you want, you're safe." The blacklist is the "Don't use this, you will be banned." MLGA currently sits somewhere in the middle, where it's not officially endorsed nor blacklisted. It means that it's not something we actively ban for (because we don't have a reason to), but it's no longer a "safe" program to use.
RE: Other people saying that you can find IPs via windows: You can, yes, not going to go into details. The key here is that this is obscured from the average person and the only time you'd see it is if you're going out of your way to specifically find it. The difference being, here's a whitelisted program which had them from and center. That's not something any developer would want, as it opens up possibilities for malicious behavior. The program itself is fine, it's just not something you would want to suggest your players check out.
The TOS state that the use of ANY third party program yielding an ingame advantage is a bannable offense UNLESS it is whitelisted.
A so called "blacklist" doesnt even exist to my knowledge. At least thats how it was written down when I last checked the TOS.
But even if they changed the TOS, I even wrote an email regarding an overlay program I wanted to use and asked whether its use is bannable.The devs were unable to answer me and redirected me to the EAC support that didnt even bother answering at all, but thats another story.
Fact is that the use of any third party program which is not whitelisted is your own risk and you can get banned for it if EAC detects it, or I am mistaken?
But since you are a mod, I have a request.
I was never able to get an official list of allowed programs from BHVR, only some vague comments under some threads.Where is this so called whitelist, or even a blacklist if such a thing exists.
To keep it simple, EAC handles the detection part. When something is whitelisted, they know not to detect it. When it's blacklisted, it'll ban you when it detects it. If it's neither, it's somewhere in between. This is where the "use at your own risk" part comes in. We no longer guarantee that it won't flag you.
The whitelist isn't so much a physical list, it's just a 'blessing' type deal. If you're ever wondering if something is whitelisted, feel free to ask.
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@Orion said:
@Peanits said:
The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that.This is also a big problem. What you're saying, in essence, is that her power is not intended to cause any real harm to Survivors. You don't see the problem with that?
I do not. The pig is not a kill power killer, he's a stealth and delay killer. I think it does what it's supposed to very well most of the time- pulling people off of generators and forcing them to take off their trap (or die), or stay in the game longer than they'd like. She's also got another ability on top of that, allowing her to go completely silent and get an extended lunge.
I think making the RBT a killing tool would be making the pig into something she's not, and changing the way she plays at its core. More importantly, I can see it being miserable to play against if getting unlucky with the boxes basically meant an instant death with nothing you can do about it, while the pig wanders around the map chasing other people.
I really feel like the best solution in this case is to help it do what it's supposed to do: Stall. Get people off of generators and keep them there. The issue here is RNG. Someone can get it off with only one box, and that's something I feel should be changed. Ensuring a minimum amount of time to take off the trap guarantees that she has a certain degree of power, rather than leaving it completely up to luck.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
Three safe pallets isn't the issue in that instance. 15 seconds running around each and they'd be down. The survivor here gained extra time by making the killer miss attacks and using that fatigue to gain distance. Had the killer taken a stun and respected the pallets less, they would have burned through them significantly faster.
Again (again), don't mean to discredit the point, but this isn't a great example of that because one player is clearly better than the other here.
Wrong. Let's pretend the Killer player wasn't using Billy. Here's the thing, Survivors are not obligated to throw down a pallet unless specifically it's Billy or a Leatherface that just got Bloodlust. Sometimes they'll just take the hit to keep the pallet up, especially when that pallet is next to other safe pallets or windows or if it's a god pallet like the shack pallet or the pig statue one in Coldwind.
15 seconds running around a safe pallet is charitable. It all depends on the spot and if you're using Billy/Nurse or maybe Huntress. If not, they can just run to another pallet and -again- not be obligated to throw down the pallet.
INB4 "Oh, if they take a hit to keep a god pallet then that's fine! That means that they're playing risky and just need one more hit to go down!" What risk is involved if there's tons of pallets nearby like in Blood Lodge? Or if they have Sprint Burst and can easily get to another spot? Or if they have DS and they're guaranteed to get away practically?
INB4 "Oh, if they have DS just break the chase!" What if they're not the Obsession and still have DS and I have no idea if they have it or not?
INB4 "Well, if they don't have DS you can still break the chase instead of getting looped!" Which means that I lose out on ranking up because the rank system really only rewards you if you chase someone and down them (not even getting into it screwing over chainsaw Killers). Not to mention that not chasing them just allows them to easily run off and heal and keep baiting the Killer to chase them.
Had a match just like that in Pallet Lodge. Two Survivors left. One gen remaining. TONS of pallets still up in the center of the map. I kept patrolling the gens and would go after one guy at a gen but I just could net get a chainsaw if it weren't one thing it's another like Sprint Burst or just not getting into that position where you can chainsaw him. If I M1 him, guess what? He runs off to the cancerous pallet land and baits me to chase him which allows the other guy to get a gen completed.The match took at least 30 minutes to finish because they just keep running back to the pallet land.
In the meantime as you're dealing with all this BS gens are getting done fast. And even IF and WHEN you catch them you still have to wait 2 precious minutes for them to die on a hook.
Y'see, you lost me here, because they are absolutely obligated to throw down the pallet if they don't want to get hit. They either throw it down and use that pallet to avoid a hit, or they don't throw it down and get hit. I haven't ever seen the "run around a pallet, don't throw it down, get hit and run to a different pallet" strategy come into play very much- and probably for good reason. The only thing making a pallet loop a pallet loop is the pallet. If you don't pallet in the pallet loop, you're just running around an object, and this is a non-issue.
As the killer, you are the obligation. If you're afraid of getting stunned and respect the pallet and they capitalize on that to get an extra loop, that's because they outplayed you. (I don't mean to say that running around the pallet is skillful, but the mindgame of throwing it down or faking you out is, and that's a skill both sides have to master.) They saw the opportunity to keep running and they took it. If you power through and force them to drop it, that pallet is out of play.
Thanks for the LOL's though.
I explained as succintly as possible why they are sometimes not obligated to throw down a pallet. I will quote myself:
"Survivors are not obligated to throw down a pallet unless specifically it's Billy or a Leatherface that just got Bloodlust. Sometimes they'll just take the hit to keep the pallet up, especially when that pallet is next to other safe pallets or windows or if it's a god pallet like the shack pallet or the pig statue one in Coldwind.
15 seconds running around a safe pallet is charitable. It all depends on the spot and if you're using Billy/Nurse or maybe Huntress. If not, they can just run to another pallet and -again- not be obligated to throw down the pallet.
INB4 "Oh, if they take a hit to keep a god pallet then that's fine! That means that they're playing risky and just need one more hit to go down!" What risk is involved if there's tons of pallets nearby like in Blood Lodge? Or if they have Sprint Burst and can easily get to another spot? Or if they have DS and they're guaranteed to get away practically?"
It's very simple to break down but I'll try a 2nd time though I doubt you will still understand:
A GOOD Survivor is not obligated to throw down a good pallet depending on:
1: the proximity the pallet is to other pallets. Blood Lodge or Wrecker's Yard is a good example of this. Especially the shack in Wrecker's Yard being right next to at least 2-3 safe pallet loops.
2: what perks they have and what kind of Killer they're facing and if they're SWF. Even if they don't have DS sometimes they'll take the hit if they're friends are waiting nearby so then if the Killer downs them at a pallet the friend will come on by and save them with a pallet or a flashlight.
3: it takes 2 minutes to kill someone on a first hook and the whole point of looping is to buy the other Survivors time. If they loop the Killer for 2 minutes that's at least 2 gens done. And experienced Survivors know where all the gens spawn anyway.
If you still cannot understand then that's on you. Because I've seen it happen multiple times. Granted, almost always happens at rank 1 so rank 20 players that know the devs don't see this at all.
The LOL responses are as close as I can get to down vote because you very sensitive people have taken away any kind of ability to down vote terrible posts, like yours.
Proximity to other pallets is a non-factor in this. I have yet to see anyone, even at rank one, run around a pallet, not throw it down, get hit, and then run to another pallet nearby. The entire purpose of the pallet is to avoid the hit. If they are running around a pallet without throwing it down and you hit them, I sincerely fail to see the issue here as you are doing exactly what you set out to do- except they aren't even putting up a fight.
Flashlight saves are incredibly hard to pull off against a competent killer these days. The pickup animation is significantly shorter giving less time to get into position, the blind angles are tighter- again, giving less time to get into position, and (for a long time now) you have full control over which direction you face as you pick up a survivor, and there are no instant blinds. You can very easily face a wall and hard counter flashlights (even if you can't, you can chase them off a little and then head back, facing the opposite way so the survivor would have to sprint all the way around you to get the blind). The only time anyone should ever get a flashlight save is if they're already in position, you're in the open with nothing to face, and the person with the flashlight is undetected (you don't know they're there).
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@Master said:
@Peanits said:
@Master said:
@Peanits said:
@Grimzy said:
Orrr..maybe you can get better at being a killer and catch them before they pallet loop your butt?
Now I'm going to stay as objective as possible here, but how do you suppose the average killer (not hillbilly or something with instant downs) catch somebody before they can get to a pallet? Even if you get a surprise attack on someone, with the speed boost they get from being hit, they'll have enough time to get to a pallet and they'll require a second hit to down them.
If you could just decide to kill someone before they can even get to a pallet, that sounds like a miserable time and I wouldn't be interested in playing that side.
Back on topic though, I believe that's the intent, sorta'. Not pallet looping specifically, because pallet looping already hard counters bloodlust (breaking one pallet resets it). But eventually get rid of the longer loops where it may be necessary and then get rid of bloodlust.
I'd like it, frankly. It's not the most solid mechanic in its current state. If you ever actually need BL3 to catch someone, we're talking about 45 seconds of wasting your time running around just for one hit. More often than not when I see it come into play, it's because someone's outsmarting the killer and running tiles the right way (and the killer isn't forcing them to switch directions and run it the slower way), or using LOS blockers to mindgame and switch directions. When it goes off in those situations, it just feels like a participation award, like the game is giving them a free hit because they couldn't catch them otherwise.
Personally I'd love to see something that actually punishes running around pallets over and over, rather than something that punishes you for not using pallets.
Now I am curious.
Do you have any insight knowledge that they will actually rework the maps?
Because the devs actions lately show no intent doing so.At the moment it looks more like looping will become even easier with improved pallet droping while BL is nerfed heavily at the same time. They didnt even mention anything about reworking maps in the Q&A, did they just forgot about it and its an actual part of the patch?
And I still believe that a competent survivor can easily loop you for more than 45 sec (assuming you play a loopable killer)
I mean, it's always been an ongoing thing. There were some changes to multiple loops in the 2.0.0 update where they tweaked loop sizes to make them less effective and added LOS blockers to allow for some mindgames to close the gap.
They promised mindgame pallets by breaking LOS, but those promises never have been fulfilled.
Most pallet loops are super safe and the survivor sees the killer at any time via his 3rd person view. And then there is the stuff with the red killer stain shining through walls.... wellI know for a fact I've seen some of them go in. Off the top of my head, there's the Autohaven tile with tires stacked on top of the car. It creates a LOS blocker that you can use to mindgame. Combine that was a moonwalk and you can close a lot of distance really fast.
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@Master said:
@Peanits said:
@Grimzy said:
Orrr..maybe you can get better at being a killer and catch them before they pallet loop your butt?
Now I'm going to stay as objective as possible here, but how do you suppose the average killer (not hillbilly or something with instant downs) catch somebody before they can get to a pallet? Even if you get a surprise attack on someone, with the speed boost they get from being hit, they'll have enough time to get to a pallet and they'll require a second hit to down them.
If you could just decide to kill someone before they can even get to a pallet, that sounds like a miserable time and I wouldn't be interested in playing that side.
Back on topic though, I believe that's the intent, sorta'. Not pallet looping specifically, because pallet looping already hard counters bloodlust (breaking one pallet resets it). But eventually get rid of the longer loops where it may be necessary and then get rid of bloodlust.
I'd like it, frankly. It's not the most solid mechanic in its current state. If you ever actually need BL3 to catch someone, we're talking about 45 seconds of wasting your time running around just for one hit. More often than not when I see it come into play, it's because someone's outsmarting the killer and running tiles the right way (and the killer isn't forcing them to switch directions and run it the slower way), or using LOS blockers to mindgame and switch directions. When it goes off in those situations, it just feels like a participation award, like the game is giving them a free hit because they couldn't catch them otherwise.
Personally I'd love to see something that actually punishes running around pallets over and over, rather than something that punishes you for not using pallets.
Now I am curious.
Do you have any insight knowledge that they will actually rework the maps?
Because the devs actions lately show no intent doing so.At the moment it looks more like looping will become even easier with improved pallet droping while BL is nerfed heavily at the same time. They didnt even mention anything about reworking maps in the Q&A, did they just forgot about it and its an actual part of the patch?
And I still believe that a competent survivor can easily loop you for more than 45 sec (assuming you play a loopable killer)
I mean, it's always been an ongoing thing. There were some changes to multiple loops in the 2.0.0 update where they tweaked loop sizes to make them less effective and added LOS blockers to allow for some mindgames to close the gap.
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I'm flattered, but I'm a part timer (ACM), not really an in-house guy. There's quite a few playing though. I know a lot of them have personal accounts that they use in their spare time, and some play on consoles. They're definitely out there. You may not find them world-wide though since they're all going to be dumped into the Eastern-Canada-Area matchmaking.
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@Master said:
@Peanits said:
Last I checked, it is no longer whitelisted. That doesn't mean that it's banned, but it's now use at your own risk. When it was whitelisted, you were safe to use it, but now it's fallen back into shady territory. I use italics to put emphasis on stuff.So basically we won't actively hunt you down and ban you for using MLGA. But if EAC starts to detect it and bans you for it, we won't be able to help you.
@Lowbei said:
Jonathanskilz said:Is using a 3rd party app that affects the way the game is played, against the rules?
Only if they can detect it.
Ha, if.
By the TOS, not being on a whitelist means that usage of such a 3rd party programm is bannable.
As a mod you should know that (or did they change the TOS and I am wrong now?)This is not true. The whitelist is a "Go ahead, use it all you want, you're safe." The blacklist is the "Don't use this, you will be banned." MLGA currently sits somewhere in the middle, where it's not officially endorsed nor blacklisted. It means that it's not something we actively ban for (because we don't have a reason to), but it's no longer a "safe" program to use.
RE: Other people saying that you can find IPs via windows: You can, yes, not going to go into details. The key here is that this is obscured from the average person and the only time you'd see it is if you're going out of your way to specifically find it. The difference being, here's a whitelisted program which had them from and center. That's not something any developer would want, as it opens up possibilities for malicious behavior. The program itself is fine, it's just not something you would want to suggest your players check out.
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@Tsulan said:
Not doing it for a shirt. Until now I didn't even know there's a special mod cosmetic.Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you were, just a general message to everyone. I probably should have made it a little more clear so it didn't sound like I was calling you out. My bad.
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I'm just going to be that guy and throw it out there, but I don't see where the problem is here. The RBT is not a killing tool. The intent behind the RBT is to stall and distract, and it does a pretty decent job of that. If you can pull someone off of generators for 107 seconds (by your math), that's huge. That's not even considering the end game potential, where they can't leave through the gates as long as they're trapped. Two trapped survivors at the end game forces them to stick around and search boxes, since they can't both just take the hatch.
The bigger problems in my eyes:
1. Being able to take it off after searching just one box. It would be a lot more consistent if the first one was guaranteed to not contain the key. I've seen people get off a hook, search a box right next to the hook, and immediately remove their trap.
2. Being able to leave via the hatch. It should be blocked, like the exit gates. This forces someone to stick around if they're trapped, not just hope everyone else leaves so they can sneak out. -
Well, can't say I didn't try. But this is still devolving into personal insults rather than a proper discussion, so I'm going to go ahead and lock this up now.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
If any SWF White Knights come to this thread and start mocking killers for having no friends and making claims that Survivors just want to play with their friends, I'm equiping Bond, making friends with the Killer, and leading them to the other Survivors.Isn't playing with friends great?
And you can enjoy a spicy softban for your efforts.
Seriously, wouldn't recommend you do it, you would be banned for it.
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@Tsulan said:
WhateverIGuess said:Y'all are doing this just for the Nea shirt huh? lmao jk.
There's a shirt?
Damn, totally missed out on that. Got a screenshot?
(I would not recommend doing it just for a shirt. If you're doing it for some cosmetic, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.) -
Keep in mind: 85% vs 105% is only a 20% movement speed difference. Compare that to a base 4.6m/s movement speed killer, which is 115% vs. 100% (15% difference).
You'd be three times slower in chases, and only sometimes you'd be slightly faster (33%). At that point you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to play the clown.
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@Lowbei said:
Peanits said:@Lowbei said:
Peanits said:
Last I checked, it is no longer whitelisted. That doesn't mean that it's banned, but it's now use at your own risk. When it was whitelisted, you were safe to use it, but now it's fallen back into shady territory. I use italics to put emphasis on stuff. So basically we won't actively hunt you down and ban you for using MLGA. But if EAC starts to detect it and bans you for it, we won't be able to help you. @Lowbei said: Jonathanskilz said:
Is using a 3rd party app that affects the way the game is played, against the rules?
Only if they can detect it. Ha, if.
if they could detect a 3rd party app that affects gameplay, it makes no sense that it wouldnt be blacklisted like all other hacks aka 3rd party apps that affect gameplay. so the logical explanation is that they know they cant detect it, and thus ignore it.
It's detectable. The issue isn't detection. The whole reason why it was originally whitelisted was because it added features that people wanted, and it wasn't too intrusive. At some point more features were added that got into shady territory (stuff developers wouldn't want to actively support), so it was removed from the whitelist. It's still not cheating, it's just not something that would get a seal of approval.
ok so from your post i got the following statements:
bhvr can detect mlga.
it was whitelisted because it added the ping checker in the lobby, despite bhvr currently working on a ping checker of their own. a baffling decision.
mlga then added something considered “shady”, but instead of blacklisting this 3rd party “shady” app that affects gameplay, we simply moved it into the grey area.
“its still not cheating” despite the fact that any other “shady” 3rd party app that affects gameplay is considered cheating, and EAC is set up to catch them.
Its pretty obvious that EAC cannot detect MLGA, and its current grey area is due to there being nothing they can do about it.
It was not cheat related. At one point (not sure if this is still the case) you were able to see the IPs of the people you were playing with. For obvious reasons, this is not something you would want to endorse.
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I feel like he's in a pretty good spot, personally. I've gone up against some nasty clowns who know how to zone out an area and force you somewhere less ideal. I think the biggest challenge to mastering him is map knowledge and being able to think on the fly. If someone's got that nailed down and they're able to identify the best places for survivors to go and they're able to gas 'em up, I really feel like they're just a good killer at that point, and they'd probably be wrecking ya' with anything else.
I wouldn't say this is the fault of the clown being overpowered though, I would say they're just a really good player. If they're able to pull off 300 IQ strats on the fly, we also have to learn how to counter that and outsmart them. The vast majority I've seen though are fairly predictable and easy to avoid. They'll toss gas in wide open areas with multiple pallets around, then run out and have to reload mid-chase.
The time they lose from throwing a bottle is pretty significant, so if you can move unpredictably, you can usually go a less ideal route and avoid the gas.
RE: That speed:
It's important to remember that movement speed in this game isn't relative to zero, it's relative to the survivor's movement speed. In other words, it's not 115% vs. 0%, it's 115% vs. 100%. Lowering his movement speed that much essentially means your chases are going to take three times longer. This also means that even if you do hit survivors with your gas, you're looking a 105% vs. 85%. In other words, you'd be moving 20% faster while they're hindered, as compared to 15% faster like any other 4.6m/s killer. AKA you'll be moving significantly slower most of the time to move slightly faster some of the time. -
@Lowbei said:
Peanits said:Last I checked, it is no longer whitelisted. That doesn't mean that it's banned, but it's now use at your own risk. When it was whitelisted, you were safe to use it, but now it's fallen back into shady territory. I use italics to put emphasis on stuff.
So basically we won't actively hunt you down and ban you for using MLGA. But if EAC starts to detect it and bans you for it, we won't be able to help you.
@Lowbei said:
Jonathanskilz said:
Is using a 3rd party app that affects the way the game is played, against the rules?
Only if they can detect it.
Ha, if.
if they could detect a 3rd party app that affects gameplay, it makes no sense that it wouldnt be blacklisted like all other hacks aka 3rd party apps that affect gameplay. so the logical explanation is that they know they cant detect it, and thus ignore it.
It's detectable. The issue isn't detection. The whole reason why it was originally whitelisted was because it added features that people wanted, and it wasn't too intrusive. At some point more features were added that got into shady territory (stuff developers wouldn't want to actively support), so it was removed from the whitelist. It's still not cheating, it's just not something that would get a seal of approval.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
Three safe pallets isn't the issue in that instance. 15 seconds running around each and they'd be down. The survivor here gained extra time by making the killer miss attacks and using that fatigue to gain distance. Had the killer taken a stun and respected the pallets less, they would have burned through them significantly faster.
Again (again), don't mean to discredit the point, but this isn't a great example of that because one player is clearly better than the other here.
Wrong. Let's pretend the Killer player wasn't using Billy. Here's the thing, Survivors are not obligated to throw down a pallet unless specifically it's Billy or a Leatherface that just got Bloodlust. Sometimes they'll just take the hit to keep the pallet up, especially when that pallet is next to other safe pallets or windows or if it's a god pallet like the shack pallet or the pig statue one in Coldwind.
15 seconds running around a safe pallet is charitable. It all depends on the spot and if you're using Billy/Nurse or maybe Huntress. If not, they can just run to another pallet and -again- not be obligated to throw down the pallet.
INB4 "Oh, if they take a hit to keep a god pallet then that's fine! That means that they're playing risky and just need one more hit to go down!" What risk is involved if there's tons of pallets nearby like in Blood Lodge? Or if they have Sprint Burst and can easily get to another spot? Or if they have DS and they're guaranteed to get away practically?
INB4 "Oh, if they have DS just break the chase!" What if they're not the Obsession and still have DS and I have no idea if they have it or not?
INB4 "Well, if they don't have DS you can still break the chase instead of getting looped!" Which means that I lose out on ranking up because the rank system really only rewards you if you chase someone and down them (not even getting into it screwing over chainsaw Killers). Not to mention that not chasing them just allows them to easily run off and heal and keep baiting the Killer to chase them.
Had a match just like that in Pallet Lodge. Two Survivors left. One gen remaining. TONS of pallets still up in the center of the map. I kept patrolling the gens and would go after one guy at a gen but I just could net get a chainsaw if it weren't one thing it's another like Sprint Burst or just not getting into that position where you can chainsaw him. If I M1 him, guess what? He runs off to the cancerous pallet land and baits me to chase him which allows the other guy to get a gen completed.The match took at least 30 minutes to finish because they just keep running back to the pallet land.
In the meantime as you're dealing with all this BS gens are getting done fast. And even IF and WHEN you catch them you still have to wait 2 precious minutes for them to die on a hook.
Y'see, you lost me here, because they are absolutely obligated to throw down the pallet if they don't want to get hit. They either throw it down and use that pallet to avoid a hit, or they don't throw it down and get hit. I haven't ever seen the "run around a pallet, don't throw it down, get hit and run to a different pallet" strategy come into play very much- and probably for good reason. The only thing making a pallet loop a pallet loop is the pallet. If you don't pallet in the pallet loop, you're just running around an object, and this is a non-issue.
As the killer, you are the obligation. If you're afraid of getting stunned and respect the pallet and they capitalize on that to get an extra loop, that's because they outplayed you. (I don't mean to say that running around the pallet is skillful, but the mindgame of throwing it down or faking you out is, and that's a skill both sides have to master.) They saw the opportunity to keep running and they took it. If you power through and force them to drop it, that pallet is out of play.
Thanks for the LOL's though.
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@Grimzy said:
Orrr..maybe you can get better at being a killer and catch them before they pallet loop your butt?
Now I'm going to stay as objective as possible here, but how do you suppose the average killer (not hillbilly or something with instant downs) catch somebody before they can get to a pallet? Even if you get a surprise attack on someone, with the speed boost they get from being hit, they'll have enough time to get to a pallet and they'll require a second hit to down them.
If you could just decide to kill someone before they can even get to a pallet, that sounds like a miserable time and I wouldn't be interested in playing that side.
Back on topic though, I believe that's the intent, sorta'. Not pallet looping specifically, because pallet looping already hard counters bloodlust (breaking one pallet resets it). But eventually get rid of the longer loops where it may be necessary and then get rid of bloodlust.
I'd like it, frankly. It's not the most solid mechanic in its current state. If you ever actually need BL3 to catch someone, we're talking about 45 seconds of wasting your time running around just for one hit. More often than not when I see it come into play, it's because someone's outsmarting the killer and running tiles the right way (and the killer isn't forcing them to switch directions and run it the slower way), or using LOS blockers to mindgame and switch directions. When it goes off in those situations, it just feels like a participation award, like the game is giving them a free hit because they couldn't catch them otherwise.
Personally I'd love to see something that actually punishes running around pallets over and over, rather than something that punishes you for not using pallets.
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Last I checked, it is no longer whitelisted. That doesn't mean that it's banned, but it's now use at your own risk. When it was whitelisted, you were safe to use it, but now it's fallen back into shady territory. I use italics to put emphasis on stuff.
So basically we won't actively hunt you down and ban you for using MLGA. But if EAC starts to detect it and bans you for it, we won't be able to help you.
@Lowbei said:
Jonathanskilz said:Is using a 3rd party app that affects the way the game is played, against the rules?
Only if they can detect it.
Ha, if.
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@powerbats said:
@Peanits said:
On it.Thanks and @ChesterTheMolester while it's weekly now it's far worse on the beginning of the weekend. Since they know that's the end of the workweek and when most of the mods are gone.
Ha, work week. If that's what they think, they're wrong. Mods are here 7 days a week.
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@Hillbilly420 said:
@Peanits said:
I don't know if we're watching the same video, but I just watched two (presumably low rank, definitely low rank for the second) killers fall for the simplest tricks in the book over and over and miss swings left and right. You wouldn't get away with most of that against a good killer. What I'm seeing in this video more than anything is a survivor with a lot of experience go up against some killers that don't have a lot of experience.That's not to shoot down the point or anything, but there are far better examples of it. This is just a better player beating a worse player. Though credit to the trapper who had the good sense not to spend all game chasing the guy trying to get chased.
I don't know if you were watching the same video. I got through the first match and it REALLY didn't help that Billy player that not one, not two, but THREE safe pallets all spawned right next to each other as he hooked the Claudette allowing for some very easy looping to make him waste his time.
He made mistakes, sure but you can't act like that was fair. The video maker didn't show the Billy's perks or add-ons so for all we know, that Billy had very basic level 1 perks. So how did an inexperienced Killer player get matched to Survivors that are running the absolute best perks and know how to loop? Maybe that's an issue with your god damn rank system!? Maybe that's an issue with SWF?!
In the 2nd match the video maker brags "We got Blood Lodge which has the most pallets of any map!" HMMMMMMMM, maybe, now just maybe, here me out, my ideas might be crazy and far out, but MAAAYYYYYBEEEE the pallets spawn way too close to each other and there's too many of them? MAAYYYYYYBBEEEE that should be fixed?
Actually towards the end of the video, you can see the endscreen where they're the same ranks. It could have been shortly after a rank reset, which would mix a bunch of players from varying skill levels together. This happens less now with the new reset system, where higher ranked players don't get reset as far back.
Again, I don't mean to say everything's perfectly balanced, but what I saw in that video was a lot of mistakes that the survivor capitalized on. You should not miss anywhere near that many swings. If someone fakes you out at a pallet and you back up, or if a survivor fakes you out at a window and you miss your lunge, or they run towards you before doing a 180 and running away and you swing, they won that mindgame. That is not a problem of map design, that is one person outsmarting the other.
Three safe pallets isn't the issue in that instance. 15 seconds running around each and they'd be down. The survivor here gained extra time by making the killer miss attacks and using that fatigue to gain distance. Had the killer taken a stun and respected the pallets less, they would have burned through them significantly faster.
Again (again), don't mean to discredit the point, but this isn't a great example of that because one player is clearly better than the other here.
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I don't know if we're watching the same video, but I just watched two (presumably low rank, definitely low rank for the second) killers fall for the simplest tricks in the book over and over and miss swings left and right. You wouldn't get away with most of that against a good killer. What I'm seeing in this video more than anything is a survivor with a lot of experience go up against some killers that don't have a lot of experience.
That's not to shoot down the point or anything, but there are far better examples of it. This is just a better player beating a worse player. Though credit to the trapper who had the good sense not to spend all game chasing the guy trying to get chased.
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On it.
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If it's a safe pallet, you probably aren't catching them even with bloodlust. There's quite a few that are too safe for that to work.Master said:@Peanits said:
Bloodlust doesn't counter looping though. Every time you break a pallet, it gets reset. The only way it would counter looping is if you intentionally do not break a safe pallet and instead decide to run back and forth for 30/45 seconds. But in that case, you are objectively making the wrong decision and I don't think they game should hold your hand and reward you for playing poorly.Even if we aren't talking about pallet loops specifically, any decent survivor that knows how to run tiles correctly and use windows to their advantage probably knows that all they have to do is throw down one safe pallet, vault back and forth, and then boom, BL is gone.
You start bloodlusting around a pallet spot, thats literally the point of bloodlust. This way you can catch a competent survivor faster than runing after him till he exploited every window loop in the map.
Please explain it to me, how is it a bad decision to waste 30 sec or sth stacking up bloodlust 3 instead of chasing the survivor through the whole map if you know that he is competent enough to keep you occupied even longer?
Sure, if looping wasnt such an insane time waster, then it would be a stupid idea to stack bloodlust at a single pallet, but thats not how the game works currently
You could spend 15 seconds running around a pallet and then break it. That takes it out of play for good. Or you can spend 45 seconds building up bloodlust for each pallet while the survivor vaults back and forth and self heals, leaving a ton of pallets still active by the late game. Your call.
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Bloodlust doesn't counter looping though. Every time you break a pallet, it gets reset. The only way it would counter looping is if you intentionally do not break a safe pallet and instead decide to run back and forth for 30/45 seconds. But in that case, you are objectively making the wrong decision and I don't think the game should hold your hand and reward you for playing poorly.
Even if we aren't talking about pallet loops specifically, any decent survivor that knows how to run tiles correctly and use windows to their advantage probably knows that all they have to do is throw down one safe pallet, vault back and forth, and then boom, BL is gone.
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Two reasons:
1. They counter each other out. So if someone uses a slightly increases one and you use a slightly decreases one, they cancel each other out and the fog doesn't become thicker/thinner.
2. You can sometimes use thickening offerings to your advantage. A pig, for example, may want to use this to help sneak up on survivors. Or a trapper to help hide their traps.It's definitely not a "must have" in all situations, but there are times when it can be beneficial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOgT9Ifw6Io