MrPeanutbutter
MrPeanutbutter
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@Snow_Lep said:
Gooooooood comparison with Hockey.
Both teams can put 10 goals on the board and get it into a shootout, but the ONE goal difference at the end means all 10 scored by the losing team were pointless.
Great comparison. Maybe pick a sport that can't go into an OT shootout to determine a win after an INSANELY well played match by both sides.
It was a terrible analogy to defend a terrible system. I was actually pretty satisfied overall with the Q&A (definitely better than past ones), but this was the low point of the stream for sure
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@dugman said:
I'm a killer only player and I'm totally ok with the idea of Borrowed Time being base kit, provided that if they make that change they also compensate to keep the overall balance from shifting too much, say by slowing gens down a bit. I get the idea of why they're apparently considering Borrowed Time as a base ability, it's to make it less likely that survivors get hooked two or three times in a row which obviously isn't all that fun for the survivor on the receiving end. But if they did that change totally on its own it would probably be kind of a disaster balance wise, so it really would need to be paired with a change that makes up for it for the kill rates.
I agree with this. I’m fine with disincentivizing tunneling if we can also remove a big reason why killers tunnel, which is the imbalanced state of the game. Give killers some buffs to compensate and I’m also fine with built-in anti-tunnel
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/306010/possibility-of-bt-basekit
I think that you are reading more into what they said than is intended.
It was incredibly obvious that the unspoken message was “we are looking at making BT basekit”. Doesn’t mean it will happen, but don’t be surprised if it does because they are at least discussing and maybe starting to work on testing it
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Heal speed is 75% now.
What do you think? Is this enough or CoH is still op?
It’s still unlimited healing for the entire team that doesn’t require a perk slot for 3 of 4 survivors. With no nerf to blessing time and no ability for killer to permanently disable it, it’s still very OP as it’s an additional objective for killers that didn’t exist until recently. It still renders most M1 killers useless
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I thought it was very good - definitely exceeded my expectations. CoH nerf was very welcome, but not sure it’s going to make a huge difference. It’s still unlimited free healing for the whole team and doesn’t require a perk slot for 3 of 4 survivors - still quite OP.
The one thing that bothered me was the allusion to possible “basekit” BT. If that comes with no major buffs on the killer side to compensate then that’s going to destroy the game as killers will quit in droves.
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I’m actually very pleasantly surprised by this Q&A. Addressing many of the main issues that are brought up on the forums! Thanks, BHVR!
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If you’re expecting common complaints on the forums to be addressed in the Q&A, I think you’re in for a major disappointment…
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@QwQw said:
Sadly, the majority of killers are.
Yeah, exactly. Nearly all the killer are non-viable against decent survivors
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@OpenX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759357#Comment_2759357
That's probably just because there are so many survivors in the Q that the matchmaking is just giving them a killer to move the lobbies along. I can confidently say I am "high MMR" because I get into lobbies with the major streamers of this game (who are generally recognized as "good" players) and I have played DBD for the past 4 years straight and still probably win over 75% of my games even with MMR.
I will get the ultra sweat lobbies where every player has 1k+ hours minimum, and then immediately go and play a match where I would almost assume it's the survivors first game!
I legit only play killer now because the survivor Q times are too damn long. Otherwise I would mostly dump the role because it's legit not fun anymore. I have played plenty to know that against a group of 4 good meta survivors, you literally cannot win on a ton of maps with a ton of killers. It's not a possibility unless the survivors are throwing.
And the saving grace of DBD to me was that you ~didn't~ get 4 meta survivors every damn game so you could play something that's not top tier. I can't just spam stuff like meta Nurse and meta Blight because I get so bored. But the alterative is playing characters who are almost guaranteed to lose.
Yea, good point here. SBMM is only going to work well if you have a large pool of killers across a range of MMR scores. With the dwindling number of killer players, SBMM is throwing lower-skilled killers into matches with higher skilled survivors to keep high MMR survivors from having hour-long wait times. I think this is probably one of the biggest reasons why killers have been so frustrated with the game since SBMM was launched
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@Junylar said:
(Just in case, before I begin: I myself play both roles almost equally, and I'm not a "main" of any side. I usually play as whoever has the fastest queue time at the moment.)
We all have seen our fair share of these "us vs them" threads, we see them every day, but many of you might have already noticed that such threads made by killer mains are greatly prevailing. Every day you can see them complaining about toxic survivors, demanding to nerf survivors, etc, while the opposite kind of threads created by survivor mains don't appear every day, sometimes not even every week. Comments defending the killer side and attacking the survivor side gain more popularity and agreement than the opposite.
You can create, as an experiment, two threads with identical form but opposite content, one saying something about poor weak killers and toxic teabagging survivors, the other about poor weak survivors and toxic camping killers, and you will see a great difference in responses: the first thread will get an overwhelmingly greater support. It seems like killer mains constitute the majority of the community, at least judging by the forums, even if we include that humble minority of players who actually play both roles.
Why is that so? If the killer role is so hard and frustrating, why is it the most popular and represented then?
People are usually going to come to the forums to complain about something rather than come here to say “hey everyone, just want to say I had a lot of fun playing the game today!!”
People who play the killer side have a lot of legitimate reasons to complain and they come here to vent their frustrations (not that it does much good to lead to actual changes). Survivor is easier than it’s been in a long time and there are few people (with a few notable exceptions) who complain about the survivor side.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2759046#Comment_2759046
From anecdotal evidence (which means nothing, I know), there are fewer killers in my region (North America something-or-other, I don't know which one exactly). During the daytime, it used to be that my survivor queues were instant and killer queues were long, but at night killer queues were instant and survivor queues were long. For the past couple months, that hasn't been the case, anymore. Killer queues are pretty fast during the day, too, now. Not instant instant, but less than 60 seconds. That's a huge, huge change from what it used to be.
I've been on the forum almost as long as you have, I know who Sluzzy is. I think I've responded to them fewer than 5 times in these 3+ years, and of those they haven't responded once, so 🤷♀️ Mostly I didn't want to see other people taking up that cry of "killers are too strong" in this thread, because you're right, it has no place in this discussion. But I apologize if I was taking things off track.
Again, I don't see devs giving us these statistics. They've only given us statistics a few times, and despite the devs saying, "Don't read too much into these, they're just numbers," everyone did exactly that and put their own biases on those numbers. The numbers might show something, but even if things line up to a certain timeline it doesn't tell us why. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
I mean, the devs might show us. You can certainly ask, I'm not saying you can't. If I'm being overly negative I apologize. I have been given little to no reason to be positive in my attitude towards this game during my time playing.
Same for me. During the day, survivor queues used to be instant and killer would take up to 5 minutes. Now it’s opposite. HUGE shift in the past couple of months. Killers are definitely dropping out or at least playing a lot less.
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Yes, killers are definitely dropping out. I’m getting instant killer queues even during the day now (never happened until recently) and my survivor queues keeping getting longer and longer. Fewer and fewer people want to play killer with the awful state of the game on the killer side
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@OpenX said:
I have retired almost all my killers, I have retired any sort of fun builds for the meta, and I camp/tunnel habitually even when I don't really need to.
It's the game they want me to play, so Ill play it. Otherwise they can give me other viable options to win, because i'm not playing a game i'm designed to lose.
Whenever they actually get around to nerfing everything good that is left, and making sure I never get anything more than a 2k. That is when I am done with the game entirely.
This is pretty similar to how I feel about SBMM as well. SBMM plus the litany of recent changes that have made the game more challenging for killers force me to play a very limited list of killers, play as sweaty as possible and camp/tunnel if I want to have a chance to secure kills.
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I don’t see many DC’s these days. I think the DC penalty is doing its job for the most part
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@Anara said:
Against hold w meta perks pre drop pallet swf genrushing BNP ?
Even camping isnt enough. I tried everything. Against this kind of teams I can get 1K and thats it.
SBMM is not fun.
Whenever I face matchups like this, I just walk around the map and avoid any interaction with the survivors. Open the gate once last gens is done. Going AFK is against the rules, but there’s no rule that says you have to try hard. I’m not interested in being humiliated for the entertainment of pro players who play the game 12 hours a day
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@GannTM said:
I use Lithe more than any exhaustion perk and I really love it. I usually get a ton of value out of it almost every game. I don’t even think it’s too strong or too weak, I just think it’s a perfect example of a fair and balanced exhaustion perk.
I know why Lithe isn’t used much, it’s because Dead Hard is so much better and so much easier to use. I just wish Dead Hard can get nerfed so other under used perks like Lithe can get exposed in the survivor meta. Also, many will agree Dead Hard is objectively unfair in its current state.
Agree with you @TheGannMan. I always run lithe and it’s gotten me out of so many chases. I love it and prefer it over dead hard or sprint burst
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Well, seeing as you can only advance your MMR by escaping because according to the system “escaping is the sole measure of your skill level”, unfortunately I think you’re stuck until the MMR system gets changed. The only way to escape MMR hell is for the devs to admit that it’s a terrible system and either overhaul it to something that is based on more than just escapes or just revert back to the old rank system.
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@FrostySeal said:
Ever since MMR has come out it has just destroyed any joy I find in DBD. Constantly, in every single one of my matches, I am always getting paired up against extremely sweaty players and I don't mind going up against sweaty players but when it's EVERY single match, it gets so exhausting. It doesn't help that in high MMR everyone is always running the same extremely overpowered meta build and frustrating play styles such as COH, DH, UB, or a bunch of slowdown perks with strong add-ons and tunneling/camping. As a survivor, all of my matches feel so frustrating because of me having to constantly go up against killers that I really don't enjoy using strategies that I also really hate while for killer I'm constantly forced to play Killers that are extremely good at camping (Trickster) or Killers that are extremely powerful (Blight, Artist, or IMO Pinhead.)
Seriously, how am I supposed to have fun with DBD? Even with a SWF or even if I win a Killer match I still don't enjoy DBD. If anyone still finds this game fun, please tell me how you're still able to find this game fun with everything that I mentioned.
I feel the same way and I think a lot of other players do too. That’s why the player count has been dropping. The blood rush and changes to grade rewards are band-aid solutions to try to slow the decline, but there needs to be some bigger changes to stop players (especially killers) from leaving the game. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed (just look at common forum topics), but admitting that SBMM was a big mistake and reverting back to the old rank system would be a good start.
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I’m glad for extra BP, but as the OP noted there are still a ton of issues in the game that that have been complained about for a long, long time but still aren’t being addressed, especially on the killer side. The blood rush might help stabilize the player count temporarily, but I don’t think it’s going to stop the continued decline.
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@FriendlyBubba said:
I like his chainsaw.
I don't like his long tantrum and most of his addons aren't that good.
And, please, stop vaulting windows, you toxic survivors!!!😝
I like that he can effectively counter the current CoH meta. I dislike that he’s one of the only killers who can effectively counter the current CoH meta.
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@Crowman said:
Killers just need something. Between MMR really showcasing how strong survivors are at a higher level, CoH completely destroying playstyles while boons in generally have no real counterplay on the killer side, and a lot of recent unnecessary killer nerfs. Killer is really at an all time low in terms of fun.
Unfornately it doesn't seem like BHVR is going to do anything about the legit complaints killers have and their only tactic to improving the playerbase is license content (hence The Ringu Chapter revealed last year) which only provide a temporary influx.
I feel the same way. Killer is a lot less enjoyable since I started playing the game a few years ago. I don’t think it’s at an “all-time low” as I think it was worse when the game first came out and there were lots of real infinite loops, instant generator repair with BNP, etc. But it’s still definitely at a low point in recent history.
The fact that BHVR made this change makes me believe they are worried about the overall decline in players, not just killer players. Killer queue during the day is faster than it’s been in a while and survivor queues at night have been increasing for me, so I think there has probably been a disproportionate departure of killer players as well. Not surprising given all the issues you noted. Apparently it hasn’t gotten bad enough yet for the devs to address with QoL improvements for the killer side.
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Yeah - hopefully the auto ban idea has been launched into space. It was a bad idea that would have open to abuse and needs to be forgotten.
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Will give credit to BHVR, finally something to help with the grind. Thanks!
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It was primarily changed because it was automatic win for killer against newer players who couldn’t hit great skill checks
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She’s annoying AF to play against
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They used to do double BP events and the grind is way worse than it has ever been so this isn’t super exciting, but better than nothing I suppose!
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@kate_best_girl said:
So I've been thinking of how you'd nerf COH without turning it into a useless self care and I can't think of any. I feel like the perk would need a rework. Do you guys have literally any ideas?
- max out the heal rate to no more than self-care if you’re healing yourself or normal heal rates if teammates are healing you.
- doesn’t go through floors in multi-level maps
- limit number of uses with tokens and/or increase amount of time to bless totem
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Play a top-tier killer. Kind of sad that’s the way it is, but the way BHVR has balanced the game now there are only a few killers who are viable against good survivors.
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@tippy2k2 said:
A free medkit for everyone on the team using only one perk that covers 1/4 the map (or 1/2 the map if it's a 2 story place like The Game) that directly counters multiple killers (Legion and Oni specifically) and directly counters the ability for the killer to spread pressure (wonder why tunneling has become so damn prevalent) and the only counter a killer has to it is to try to stumble upon it at some point so they can kick it and make it brea...oh, make it disappear for a mild inconvenience to the survivors as they just go back to it or find a different totem to bless again.
Yeah, it's a mystery why killers think it's OP. Guess we'll never know...
Free *reusable unlimited times* medkit
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The worst part was how BHVR wrote a bunch of stuff about how balanced he was with good counterplay options for survivors but they nerfed him anyway. Part of the long history of unnecessary killer nerfs. The only thing that made him OP was instasaw, but rather than just change those add-ons they nuked everything and made all his add-ons pretty much useless
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Bubba + tunnel/camp
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@km66 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/303774/its-dead-hard-on-every-survivor-every-match
Every killer uses hex ruin. They should nerf it just because I don’t like it.
I never use ruin
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Honestly, there is 0 point in caring about SBMM. Because it is not skill-based. You can lose SBMM-Rating despite being the better player.
Two examples:
Killer-->You play Billy, get 8 Hooks, every Survivor escapes. Another Killer plays Bubba, camps the first person they find and get a second Kill with NOED, 2 Hooks total.
Who played better? Obviously the Billy-player. Who gets more SBMM-Rating? The Bubba.
Survivor-->Today I ran around a Plague for 5 Gens on Coal Tower. I got tunneled after every Unhook and was the only person who died. Does that mean that I was the worst Survivor on my team? no, not at all. But SBMM thinks that I am worse than my teammates, since I died and they escaped.
And you are not a bad Survivor if a Baby Meg used every Pallet on the Map in her first Chase and you dont have anything to work with. Because even the best Survivors cannot play well without Ressources.
This just shows how flawed the system is. And with a system this flawed, can you even say that you are paired correctly or incorrectly? Whenever I play, I often think that I am paired incorrectly, because either the Killer is a lot weaker than me or the other Survivors - or both. But maybe I am even paired with the correct rating, because it does not matter how well I did over the matches, as long as I die at the Endgame (completely irrelevant how I died), I will lose MMR.
Meanwhile, as Killer I can get 4 Baby Survivors, followed by a strong group which lets me end with 2 Hooks. And I doubt that one 4K game shoots me up into an SBMM-Rating which results in a match of me only getting 2 Hooks.
Exactly this. Knowing your MMR score doesn’t tell you much because it’s literally just based on kills and escapes. It would make a lot more sense to add other elements of your performance to the score such as time being chased by the killer, escaping chases, healing, unhooking. etc.
Something like…the old rank system…wait a minute…🤦♂️
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@slunder said:
The title says it all.
I play both sides and in my experience the game is more survivor sided than it has been in a while. My killer matches have gotten harder and my survivor matches have gotten easier. This shift lined up with the introduction of boom totems and SBMM, so it’s pretty clear what changes have made the game more survivor sided.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735761#Comment_2735761
I'll try to keep this shorter than my last post, but to touch upon a few of the points you've brought up:
1: On the subject of The Nurse, using pick rates as a determining factor is very shaky territory. First, you've gotta consider the fact that part of the reason she's picked less often is due in part to the bugs with her power. Even if someone likes The Nurse and is doing moderately well with her, it's totally within the realm of possibility that the bugs were too frustrating for them to continue playing. Secondly, pick rate is not a universal thing. While it stands it reason that she may not be picked at lower skill levels (owing to her higher learning curve), she becomes far more popular at higher skill levels. I won't speak for everyone, but I'm assuming at least some people would like to see more Killers pop up regularly in the higher skill levels.
But beyond this, The Nurse's bug fixes is also a prime example of something that has come up a lot over the years. Often times we're asked to focus on things like game health rather than content / balance, and The Nurse and her various bugs was often tied directly to that as a poster child of sorts. Fixing these issues did require a complete redo of her coding, but it's a prime example of us doing exactly that: Putting content / balance to the side to focus on fixing things. I totally understand if you're not pumped for this next Mid-Chapter, but it's a pretty shocking reaction to something that was asked of us very often (focusing on fixes/game health over content).
2: To think point of Circle of Healing, I just want to say that this is absolutely not something we're ignoring. We make a point out of letting things settle before making rash decisions these days. Between PTBs & live these days, the changes we make are almost always fairly minor. We've been burned in the past by making rash decisions when the initial feedback was rough. Nowadays, we try to let everything have some time to settle before we start thinking about how it should change. This gives us a better idea of where it actually sits rather than making a knee jerk reaction and hoping it works out. Circle of Healing is an even trickier scenario since it came bundled with an entirely new mechanic (boons), so it's very important that we see how things work before diving head first into changes.
That said, though, I can't reveal if/what will happen to Circle of Healing right here, just please keep in mind that there's always a cycle that looks like this:
- Something releases
- Wait for it to settle
- Determine if changes are needed
- Create changes
3: On the subject of Freddy, I feel like this something that often gets misconstrued as well. In reality, kill rates only play a small role. You compared him to The Nurse, and I'm really glad you did because she's the perfect example of why that's not the case. The Nurse overall has a fairly low kill rate (well below the rest of Killers), but that doesn't mean she's weak. She's tough to play, and in the right hands, she can be hands down the best. But that also isn't necessarily a problem because there's a ton of skill that goes into playing her extraordinarily well, and there's also a lot of skill that goes into playing against her well.
In the case of Freddy, on the other hand, you had a Killer that was very strong without needing much thought or skill. Dropping a couple traps at a loop would yield very strong results with very little risk or strategy. His slight tweaks aimed to make the strategy of spamming traps constantly while in a chase less viable.
On the point of lack of skill, I won't delve too far into this, but that is a very loaded point to make. Many developers play the game daily (typically not with BHVR tags in their name, they don't want to be recognized). I myself used to stream this game three times per week, and I was playing at the higher ranks just fine. Sure, not every game developer's going to be ready to jump on an eSports team, but expecting everyone working on a game to be able to play it at a competitive level is a frankly unrealistic standard, even if some of them are pretty good.
I appreciate you addressing Circle of Healing here. A lot of people (including myself) were really frustrated that it wasn’t addressed at all in recently developer updates. All the people who had been providing feedback about it felt ignored. I wish there would have been at least some mention of it in the dev updates - even something similar to what you just posted here like “we hear you, we just aren’t ready to make changes yet.” I think that would have gone a long ways in preventing some of the anger that’s popped up on the forums in the past couple of days.
Anyway, thanks for providing some comments about it.
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I think the chain hunt/ box mechanic is fine against SWF when they have communication and it helps to slow down the game a bit. It’s completely broken against solo queue.
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I would stick with survivor too, but the queue times are going to be painful (even more so than they already are). I was playing at lunchtime today and the killer queues were instant while survivor queues took a few minutes. That never happens for me - it has always been the other way around during early daytime until today. This is a strong piece of anecdotal evidence that killer numbers are already down after the recent patch announcements.
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If BHVR aren’t concerned that some of their game’s most dedicated supporters are telling them that they feel their feedback is completely ignored, then there is no hope for this company.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733322#Comment_2733322
Oh, you're one of those you play only one side?
Oh, you’re one of those who makes assumptions with zero information?
I play both sides about 50/50
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@gammatsunami said:
I dont think they actually play their game
It’s 100% clear that they don’t, at least not enough to know what the experience of their customers is like.
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Don’t worry - the devs are buffing solo queue because they listen to survivor feedback. Would be nice if they did the same for killer players
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Reading discussions over the past couple of days and seems like a lot of other killer players are rightfully feeling ######### on because of the devs completely ignoring the broken CoH perk in this update. It’s clear now that killer feedback won’t be listened to, so if you play killer and want things to change, the only way that’s going to happen is to stop playing killer. Make survivor queues go through the roof until enough survivors complain that the devs will maybe think about quality of life improvements for the killer side. I play both sides about equally so I have seen how frustrating CoH is for the killer side and how much easier it has make my matches on the survivor side. The only people who think CoH is “fine” are 1) killers who live and breathe the game and are good enough to stomp most teams no matter what; and 2) people who have never played killer, at least above non-noob survivors
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It’s just mind-boggling. I have no idea where the devs are getting their feedback from. The only issue that they are addressing that I’ve seen regularly brought up on forums is the maybe potential buff of solo queue. Everything else is stuff that seems to be coming out of nowhere, and major issues like CoH being completely ignored. I’ve tried to maintain positive feelings about the game, but this continued pattern of ignoring feedback, particularly from people who play killer, confirms for me that they don’t play their own game much and they certainly don’t prioritize making the game enjoyable or even tolerable for killer players. I play both sides about equally and CoH has made it massively easier on the survivor side, like night and day difference from before it was introduced. My experience is not unique. The only conclusion I can draw is that the devs are ignoring this obviously broken perk because they don’t want to turn off the bulk of their revenue base, which is SWF players. For them to not even mention it in this update tells us everything we need to know. If you play killer, you are merely a facilitator for SWF enjoyment.
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@Veinslay said:
Why would he be upset about the patch? I thought he could win with no perks/addons and AFKing no problem ez pz
Because he also cares about the experience of other players and not just his own?
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At this point, nobody should be surprised. BHVR now has a pretty consistent track record of making changes that seemingly nobody has been asking for and ignoring major issues that are frequently raised by streamers and people on the forums. Is there some secret group of people that don’t stream or comment on the forums that BHVR exclusively relies on for feedback? That’s the only explanation.
I don’t think this is going to change until people stop playing the game. Until then, they’re just going to do whatever TF they want.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
- Dead hard "fix" (aka huge buff)
- Boon perks
- Unbreakeble boon perk
- Add-on nerfs + Power Strugle buff
Every. Major. Patch. They. Get. Nerfed. No new skins. No new improvements for the killer player itself. No care at all it feels.
Just sad.
I was trying to think of the killer I have seen the least in the last few months and hands down it’s been Twins. It’s literally been months since I’ve been matched against a Twins killer
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I agree that this is incredibly disappointing. Apparently there are other changes in the PTB that haven’t been included in the two dev updates, but given the fact that CoH wasn’t mentioned in either update shows to me that the devs don’t give a ######### about the killer experience. Maybe they’ll prove me wrong by the time the PTB is done, but I’m not hopeful. I play both killer and survivor, and if things stay as-is I will basically never play at night because I won’t play killer during peak hours (nothing but unbalanced matches against SWF squads) and survivor queues are going to be even more unbearably long than they already are.
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@TheOptimiser said:
Dissapointed with part 2 Dev update. No CoH NERF, nerfs to already weak killers, nothing buffed in a significant matter. Killers go down more and more by every patch that comes around.
DISSAPOINTING!
I was hopeful that there would be something to address CoH at a bare minimum, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. BHVR has proven to me once and for all that they don’t give a ######### about the killer experience and it’s all about keeping SWF teams happy
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I play both sides and I’m looking forward to the survivor changes. I hope there will be some changes to help killers (CoH nerf, map changes, etc) announced tomorrow, but my bet is the nerfs will be minimal. I really hope I’m wrong. If killers don’t get some concessions as well, survivor queues are going to be far more painfully long than they already are (at least at night).
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@BlighTown said:
True or not?
It would be better, but still wouldn’t fix some of the remaining issues such as SWF on comms and terrible map layouts with strong tiles next to each other