"80% pLaYeRs uSe rUiN, sO wE wIlL nErF iT". So what about Dead Hard?
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I think you'll find it's not that controversial of an opinion these days that reworked ruin is stronger than old ruin
BBQ and Ruin are used more... Want them nerfed too?
Dead hard is easily the best perk in the game and deserves some attention from the devs. That said when have they ever been quick to changing something as meta defining as this? I’m sure it will happen one day, but for now it’s just another problem to live with.
the whole "this thing is popular so we're nerfing it" thing is so goddamn stupid, it's almost like there's a reason so many people use specific perks
They will nerf every single killer perk sooner or later.
they've stated multiple times (as have 100's of forum members) that this is only ONE of the reasons it changed, why are killers so ignorant of that fact?
This. The addon changes on the PTB show that usage is not a good metric for balancing.
As @SeanzuDuck duck said - there were other factors. It was basically ignored by veteran survivors, destroyed new players, required no interaction, etc
...Is that why Ruin was reworked? I was under the impression that Ruin was reworked because it was a nasty design that completely screwed over newer players to an unfair degree.
Not to say DH doesn't need looking at, but I see a lot of people claiming that Ruin was reworked solely because it was used a lot, and little evidence of it.
(Also it wasn't nerfed, it was completely reworked.)
It was primarily changed because it was automatic win for killer against newer players who couldn’t hit great skill checks
Plz dont use that for fact those were pre mmr and pre boon im sure thr most use perk have change to corrupt and deadlock for killer
My point was that it shouldn't be used to justify changes. Sorry if that was unclear! It's pretty late here...
It's almost like that wasn't the reason it got changed and ignores the fact it was actually buffed to be more effective against experienced survivors without destroying newer players. I guess by this logic we should buff the perk /s
Classic forum moment.
That was ONE of the reasons.
Thanks! I'm always worried that what I'm trying to convey can be misinterpreted... Always good to get positive feedback <3
Ruin wasn't interactive.
Dead Hard is.
Should DH be changed so it doesn't feel so in-your-face about taking away something from you? Probably. But people are more about nerfing the perk rather than changing its presentation.
new ruin better than old ruin, it was not a nerf
What about it?
If I could force a dead hard nerf by outright deleting all three of those perks I'd do it.
I only use bbq for bp and generally forget it has aura reading. The other two I never use because they're hexes.
So yeah. Do it up. I am on board. Delete those three and make it so dead hard requires tokens gained by repairing the equivalent of a gen. Takes 2 tokens. Still need to be injured. Causes exhaustion for 120 seconds and has a individual cooldown of 300/250/200 seconds.
Turntable has turned table. "You are move."
Its just its one of the many excuse the dev said when they nerf ruin
I'd 100% refuse to give up BBQ! Even without the BP the aura reading is so handy! I agree with the hexes though!
As for the survivor perks, the only one I use out of the 3 is BT and if I had to give up the other 2 to keep that one I'd be 100% fine with that
Sure pal.. sure..
because the other reasons are not valid and make no sense
I love titles with ThEsE LeTtErS 😂
JuSt ApPlY pReSsUrE
Ruin sure, but anyone who wants to nerf BBQ will have to personally fight me
"I don't understand the other reasons, so I'm going to ignore them and pretend they aren't even there and complain about one thing and base all my nerf arguments on it"
Also, this is almost a year out of date and DH usage has definitely gone up since validation went live
Because, like it or not, survivors and killers are not balanced in the same way, or along the same standards. You'll...learn to live with it.
Yes. Dead Hard needs a nerf. The devs know it, the players know it. But if it was going to be nerfed, it would have been nerfed already.
Uh...take a look at the years during which that data was gathered. Those stats are meaningless aside from 'hey, that's interesting'.
And post buff Dead Hard is much stronger than old Dead Hard :).
Following that logic, SC and BT would have to be nerfed first.
If we looking at usage: BBQ tops them all, way more than 80%, but hasn't been nerfed.
Nah, new ruin is weaker than old ruin.
The fact that survivors wouldn't even notice that ruin is active unless they leave the gen, proves that.
@OP the reason ruin was nerfed hard, was because it was a frustrating experience for new players. Now getting fake hits from DH also doesn't really sound like an enjoyable experience for new players. But I somehow have the feeling that a looooong time will pass until something gets done about this.
I was there. And I also remember it being changed because....
MUH NOOBS CAN'T DO SKEEL CHECKS!
You know....balancing the game around new players....always seems to work out for the best... /sarcasmbecausepeoplewontrealize.
Old ruin was better in terms of reliability (Barring it being a hex). It would always slow down survivors as long as it was up
New ruin depends on aggressive killers, so killers like trapper, hag, and Demogorgon suffered while ones like nurse, legion, and Shape benefited.
You don't want BBQ to be nerfed.
*Completely disregard DS and OoO nerfs*
they went on a long explanation as to how it's hard to balance anything in the game due to there being so many matches with something like ruin active, affecting the speed of games in almost every match.
People post videos of Otz kicking ass and they complain that they "aren't otz" so it isn't accurate, so killers don't really want it balanced around high ranks either, they want it balanced around their anecdotal experience so complaining about high or low skilled balancing is so pointless.
BBQ is not run because it is an OP perk.
BBQ is run for the paycheck.
Remove the bloodpoint effect, and most people would stop running it. I know I would.
i already did in the past a thread on that cursed perk and the reasons why it should be completely changed, if you want to take a look, here's the link https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/260885/dead-hard-must-be-reworked
Omg congrats it's Willow literally saying that using what little stats we have is meaningless because we don't know the full picture!
if only DH was limited to one person a trial
Dead Hard is not even bad. Hit validation on it is kind of the straw that broke the camels back, in my oh so very humble opinion.
Lets nerf all of those popular perks, sure.
Nerf Self care and Borrowed time too, i would be totally ok with it
Do bones
I wish that was the case but the DH complaints had skyrocketed in the months before that. Once DS was nerfed they moved straight onto it. I understood to DS hate but DH has been so inconsistent and a part of the game for so long that complaining about it always seemed so odd to me...
I do see a slight change, like having tonmend after use, coming to it at some stage. But I can't see the perk as a whole changing too much
I wish killers would accept that, survivors are allowed nice things too. Almost all survivor perks are worthless. The only perks that matter are the ones that grant a second chance (borrowed time, decisive strike, unbreakable, dead hard, iron will). All the rest of them are memes. Who in their right mind would take Hope for any reason other than goofing around?
The survivor meta is defined by what you would absolutely never take more than what actually changes the game. I've watched countless hours of good killer main streamers, in chase, they are ALWAYS assume dead hard on every survivor. So they wait out there swing for 2 extra seconds, reveal the dead hard (or not) and then get the down anyway. Occassionally, the timing is right and the dead hard gets the distance to make the next loop.
Is this the perk that has the killer community crying foul, a perk that sometimes buys the survivors a few extra seconds of chase? Are surviviors never meant to escape a chase?
I had an eye opening experience the other day, and I accidentally ran a match with no perks...and it was totally fine. The perks grant benefits that are so small they barely effect a chase, let alone the outcome of a match. Now I am not top MMR, I fully admit that. But if I can BARELY tell the difference of equipping a perk and not...maybe all the nonmeta perks are just a little too weak. strike that, they are pathetically weak.
Because its the only reason of the four they gave that fits into the "[Thing] is overused too, nerf it" narrative, the other 3 dont apply to Dead Hard in any form so they are better left in the darkness.
And post buff Dead Hard is much stronger than old Dead Hard :).
Isn't that getting fixed this patch?
Because outside of false positive ramifications, Dead Hard did not get buffed. Literally everything it can do after validation, it could do before it.
It just no longer gets cancelled out by killer lag.
How about we stop telling this urban legend about ruin being changed due to overuse?
dead hard is used more than ruin and bbq because there are 4 survivors every match lol
So self care 100% needs a nerf. Hopefully it can encourage the no heal meta even more... The buff killers truly need!