ModernFable
ModernFable
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@not_Queen post said we’d receive info within the next 2 weeks.
Today is the last day of the “2 week period”, so we’ll either hear about it today or it’s probably gonna be delayed.
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@IamFran said:
For me the luck offerings are more useless than BP bonus offerings
If at least the luck affect the quality of the items you find in the chests... When I was new in the game I thought that luck offerings affect it and used them frequently, when I found out that those offerings don't affect the chests I facepalmed hard.
Offerings that don't guarantee a self unhook even being purple and considering is way better to wait if a team mate unhook you make that offerings so useless.While I agree that Luck should affect more and the Offerings aren't too useful at the moment: they still have a purpose. They maybe not be very at that purpose, and I personally wouldn't mind them being removed as well, but they still have one.
Blood Point Offerings, save for Blood Party Streamers and Cakes/Puddings, only serve as artificial filler for the Blood Web and should be removed no matter what.
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@Chaoxide
I think the main thing I have to say here is that these numbers are not set in stone. These are just examples numbers for the direction I feel balance should take. To reward proper team play and cooperation.
40% Faster Kick Speed: This could probably be toned down, while having another Killer buff. That being said, I still feel speeding up Killer actions is one of the better routes to take. Since Killers like Nurse who can ignore pallets is less impacted, while others receive a very tangible buff.
(Something like 25% with a different buff should be alright)
Benevolence: It’s the idea of putting more focus on the objective. However it could be changed to:
Unhook: 500 BP
Safe Unhook: 750 BP
Heal: 750 BP
(To keep it enticing, but reward proper play)
Lightbringer: I could agree with a 500 BP bonus, just so long as it’s somewhat significant.
Blood Web: I don’t particularly agree, but the most important changes are the removal of filler Offerings anyway.
Kindred: It could just be the Kindred effect but limit the range. Something like: when within 36 meters of a hooked Survivor, other Survivors within that range are revealed. Additionally, Killers within 8 meters of the hook are revealed.
(This way, it keeps those perks from falling out of favor. While still closing the gap between Solo and SWF information)
I hope that addresses most of your concerns regarding my proposed changes, but if not let me know. This is a discussion for the purpose of a better Dead by Daylight, so I appreciate the feedback.
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@not_Queen made a post on January 8th that we’d be getting more information on the Lunar event “in the next couple of weeks.”Detective_Jonathan said:It should come out tomorrow right? I am not sure, can someone confirm for me please?
So we should receive some sort of info of some update within a day or two. Unless it’s been delayed. -
So why not remove them?Beverly said:I feel some things about it need to be changed, but I can't necessarily say what... It's not as clear cut as I'd like to believe. I could also say the exact same things for items.
A few things may need adjustments after the fact, but it would solve multiple problems simultaneously. -
That’s the hope.
But they haven’t said anything new. -
If we were to remove BP Offerings, and then leave most other things then:Boss said:@ModernFable said:
Boss said:@ModernFable said:
Boss said:
@ModernFable said: Boss said:
I like to increase fog as Wraith, i can truly get some surprises, even though i b-line it.
The fog is an interesting mechanic, but it can be adjusted separately. I prefer to give the fog Offerings actual meaning for me to use. I understand that, but why do you want Offerings in the first place?
Why do you like them?
I like gaining more control over the match.
Okay that’s a preference, but what do you think about the Blood Point Offerings?
Because they’re just additional filler for an already incredibly grindy game.
Since they don't do the "direct influence" that i mentioned before, i think less of them, but i still like them.
They suffer from being old though.
I mean, BPS the same rarity as Ardent & Fragrant series? Please.In general, only one thing about Offerings bothers me: Their abundance in the Bloodweb.
While i do like Offerings overall, i, like many other people, much prefer Add-ons.
And Bloodwebs, mine at least, have loads of Offerings.
Since you can only use 1 Offering & 2 Add-ons, i'd prefer for the Bloodweb to lean more towards having 66% Add-ons & 33% Offerings.
I’d prefer having something like 50% Add-Ons, 25% Items, and then 25% Offerings.
(And the 2 Perks would always be there, of course) -
If it was then the Hemorrhage effect would probably have to be removed from Sloppy Butcher.Boss said:@Chaoxide said:
@Boss said:
@ModernFable said:
Boss said:@ModernFable said:
Boss said:
I like to increase fog as Wraith, i can truly get some surprises, even though i b-line it.
The fog is an interesting mechanic, but it can be adjusted separately.
I prefer to give the fog Offerings actual meaning for me to use.
I understand that, but why do you want Offerings in the first place?
Why do you like them?
I like gaining more control over the match.
Like with that Sloppy blood fountain wraith exclusive perk am i right?
I think it would actually be a decent buff to the very weak Hemorrhage.
But just without the frame rate drops and crashes.
Because having the Mangled and a huge Hemorrhage debuff on one perk that’s easy to apply, would be a tad too strong. -
Okay that’s a preference, but what do you think about the Blood Point Offerings?Boss said:@ModernFable said:
Boss said:@ModernFable said:
Boss said:
I like to increase fog as Wraith, i can truly get some surprises, even though i b-line it.
The fog is an interesting mechanic, but it can be adjusted separately.
I prefer to give the fog Offerings actual meaning for me to use.
I understand that, but why do you want Offerings in the first place?
Why do you like them?
I like gaining more control over the match.
Because they’re just additional filler for an already incredibly grindy game. -
Monstrous ShrineBoss said:@Bravo0413 said:
Oh so spies will have use?Now Monstrous Shrine.
And unlike SFTS, MS hasn't been touched ever.
Territorial Imperative
Unrelenting
Left Behind
This Is Not Happening
No One Left Behind
Etc...
The list of perks goes on and on. -
I have stated several times in this discussion that the only exception would be for new players.Carpemortum said:So would you rather literal new players be able to get queued up against actual pros like tru3 or marth? No? Then it's not an issue. At you said it gives no rewards, so it does its job at queuing people up into a somewhat better match based on some amount of skill or effort as opposed to absolutely no logic other than: heres 5 people. Play. -
Discordance is pretty, especially on him.
However his other two perks are very underwhelming.
Legion is alright, but I’d recommend watching some videos to see what you think. -
It has a good sized player base, but it’s not massive.Master said:
DbD has a massive playerbase toopowerbats said:@Master said:
@powerbats said:
Ok what are your suggestions to replace it then, you want to remove something but don't have anything to replace it.Just copy a ranking system from a proper competitive game. They are all really similar
That's jut as bad really since most of those you'd want to copy have massive player bases and realistically there's other things that need to be fixed as well.
Massive would be term for something like Fortnite or Minecraft. Huge or very large would be something like Halo, CoD, or some other AAA title.
Dead by Daylight has a good sized player base. Maybe large for its genre, but it’s not massive.
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It’s back.
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I fixed your reply in my reply so it’s more clear.Cardgrey said:
I've got a idea.....
So like say remove rank and go on devotion 0 1 2+.
So like 0s play together pulling 1s if needed. 1s play together and pull 2+ in if needed. And everyone else is in a pool together and pulls 1s if needed.
It would 1 stop bullying as u can't xp down. 2 it would force people to play with people who are there skill level. 3 unless everyone's gonna nurse it up... It should allow deversity . Also make swf pull the killer from the pool of the highest rank to address that. I know it's not perfect but I just wanna give my 2 cents.
Also integrating Devotion into matchmaking is interesting. However there still remains the problem of worsening queue times, and Devotion would still only be an indicator of time played rather than skill.
Why don’t you like the idea of free matchmaking which prioritizes connection? -
It’s a simple one, but I love Trapper’s Machete.
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Oops.Cardgrey said:O.o
I glanced at your comment, but since you didn’t format it properly it looked like you just posted the previous person’s comment again. -
For most maps this isn’t a problem at all, because the crows are often in pretty obscure spots.
There are some exceptions like Lerry’s where there’s often a crow next to a Gen or two.
But even so, just because a perk is stronger on one map than others, doesn’t mean it needs adjustments.
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The primary thing keeping players out of red and purple ranks is the extremely frequent rank resets. Most of the players there are those who play daily and for hours at a time, not necessarily the most skilled of the bunch.Dustin said:@Mochan said:
Newsflash: rank measures your ability to consistently perform objectives. If you can't consistently perform objecives, you de-pip. And de-rank eventually.It absolutely measures your skill. Only the best players who can consistently achieve objectives get to Rank 1.
Stop whining and pretending that Rank does't measure anything, just to keep your fragile ego that you are an actual skilled player, intact. If you are Rank 1 you're good at this game. If you are Rank 15, not so good.
And for the record, I am Rank 15. I accept this and realize I have a long way to go.
From my point of view rank doesn't mean anything after a certain amount of time because DBD is a very simple game and there isn't many mechanics for you to learn.
(edit - To clarify on easily > I rarely have games where I depip until around rank 1 or 2 but I'd say it's every 5 or so games because I mess around a lot. The only thing that keeps me out of rank 1 is rank reset.)
Granted I don't see the rank system needing a rework because newer players need something to give them a good first time experience but for high level play I don't see rank mattering at all. If you'd even consider this game having high level play aside from a small pool of players.
And I don’t see a huge problem with removing the ranked system. Dead by Daylight isn’t League of Legends, or some tactical shooter. It’s relatively simple and easy to learn.
Also other games have implemented matchmaking for new players without a ranking system. And they turn out fine.
Moreover Dead by Daylight already has systems in place for new players, so at most those would be improved. -
Why do you want to replace it with anything?Bravo0413 said:The ranking system does need to be reworked or anything other then this... but could we discuss how we could replace it what we the community would like to see?
I can understand concern for new players, however that can be handled separately.
Personally I’d rather just have matchmaking purely prioritize connection.
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The difference between ranks is rather negligible.powerbats said:@ModernFable said:
Considering much effort would be required for a proper asymmetric ranking system. As well as the benefits for simply removing the current one entirely.
I feel the best and most efficient course of action would be to** just remove it**. Let the matchmaking be as fast as possible and create games with the best connection possible.
The only matchmaking that should be isolated is for new players.
That right there is why it's wrong because all the killers complaining about swf would suddenly be matched against rank 1 survivors quite often.
Then you'd have rank 1 killers destroying lower skilled players more than they do now.
Save for rank 20s that just got the game and those who are stuck rank 15, who all could be paired together.
Past that, the biggest difference would perks.
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The only reason everyone isn’t in red ranks is because rank reset happens every month.Mochan said:@ModernFable said:
Mochan said:@ModernFable said:
The system is more an assessment of time played than skillful play. The system increases queue times significantly, and in some cases indefinitely. And in its attempt to find a “balanced” match, it diminishes the connection quality in the process.
It absolutely measures your skill. Only the best players who can consistently achieve objectives get to Rank 1.
It only measures skill in a very basic understanding of the game.
To Safety PiP as Survivor you need 2 Bronze and 2 Silver.
You need to:
- Get 1 Gen to 30% for Bronze Lightbringer
- Live for 10 minutes for Silver Unbroken
- Get 1 Heal for Silver Benevolence
- And get chased for 13 seconds for Bronze Evader
And this is assuming you want to play nicely. If you want to: 3 unhooks and 1 heal will give you Iridescent Benevolence. At that point you only need 2 more Bronzes to Safety, or 2 Silvers and 1 Bronze to PiP.
Ranking up is so easy in Dead by Daylight that it’s pointless, and making it harder would damage the queue times even more.
Improving the quality matchmaking is of much greater importance than trying to keep a very frivolous ranking system like this:
That only measures skill in a range of “just bought the game” to “I’ve played this game for more than 5 hours.” And only truly serves to worsen matchmaking while giving a placebo of more balanced matches.
If ranking up were so easy everyone would be Rank 1, but they're not. Majority of Survivor are Rank 9 or below.
You are making it sound so easy but it's not. What you are saying is 100% fantasy and not reality. Yeah
The primary measurement of Dead by Daylight’s ranking system is time played with a very minor skill element.
If DBD had year long or several months long resets, akin to other ranking based games, then everyone would be in red ranks. -
Considering much effort would be required for a proper asymmetric ranking system. As well as the benefits for simply removing the current one entirely.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:@powerbats said:
Ok what are your suggestions to replace it then, you want to remove something but don't have anything to replace it.I've already worked that one out, for those wanting to go into the "Real Ranking system suitable for an asymmetrical game" direction;
Rank absolutely doesn't measure skill. Dead By Daylight doesn't even have a ranking system. Nobody has a rank. Nobody is placed in a rank domain. Everyone can be rank 1 at the same time and both the killer and survivor can win in the exact same match. (They aren't even opponents)
Dead by daylights "ranking system" is a seasonal grinding system with a non-competitive axis.
If you make the rank reset a yearly reset then the vast majority will be rank 1.@ModernFable is completely right and every symptom proves it.
I feel the best and most efficient course of action would be to just remove it. Let the matchmaking be as fast as possible and create games with the best connection possible.
The only matchmaking that should be isolated is for new players. -
These are not bannable offenses:
Unfun? Perhaps.
Bannable? No. -
It only measures skill in a very basic understanding of the game.Mochan said:@ModernFable said:
The system is more an assessment of time played than skillful play. The system increases queue times significantly, and in some cases indefinitely. And in its attempt to find a “balanced” match, it diminishes the connection quality in the process.
It absolutely measures your skill. Only the best players who can consistently achieve objectives get to Rank 1.
To Safety PiP as Survivor you need 2 Bronze and 2 Silver.
You need to:
- Get 1 Gen to 30% for Bronze Lightbringer
- Live for 10 minutes for Silver Unbroken
- Get 1 Heal for Silver Benevolence
- And get chased for 13 seconds for Bronze Evader
And this is assuming you want to play nicely. If you want to: 3 unhooks and 1 heal will give you Iridescent Benevolence. At that point you only need 2 more Bronzes to Safety, or 2 Silvers and 1 Bronze to PiP.
Ranking up is so easy in Dead by Daylight that it’s pointless, and making it harder would damage the queue times even more.
Improving the quality matchmaking is of much greater importance than trying to keep a very frivolous ranking system like this:
That only measures skill in a range of “just bought the game” to “I’ve played this game for more than 5 hours.” And only truly serves to worsen matchmaking while giving a placebo of more balanced matches. -
Not sure if you were asking me, but I’m not suggesting to replace it with anything.powerbats said:Ok what are your suggestions to replace it then, you want to remove something but don't have anything to replace it.
Quite the opposite, I feel Dead by Daylight would benefit greatly from having only connection based match making.
The only exception should be for new players. -
Soon™Freudentrauma said:Their philosophy how "Snap out of it" shouldn't been a healing action just changed recently. I think they mentioned they want to get rid of the BK affecting it as well. At least mentioning planning to do so. Sometime. Later....
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150 Blood Points
2% Progression -
The Hatch change is just one of many possible solutions to Dead by Dyalight’s end game.KissyKissy said:I kind of like the hatch change, though I may feel differently once I see it in action. Kick speed for pallets and gen's is 40% faster? Am I missing something here? Seems crazy, so I may be misinterpreting.
And yes, the Killer change is a strong, yet simple change. As I explained in my post, it is to compensate for the numerous survivor buffs I suggested. -
Thanks, any specific feedback you’d like to share?Poweas said:Thats actually a really good idea to balance the game. I'd love it.
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In games, I feel the leading with the carrot is more effective than the stick.brokedownpalace said:A lot of these are common sense and easy changes to implement that would encourage and reward playstyles that are more fun for everyone in a game. Still want to camp or tunnel? Go ahead, but you'll be missing out on a substantial amount of BP. Still ignoring objectives so you can max out benevolence and make risky unhooks? Sure, but you'll be rewarded far less.
I dig it.
I also try to avoid proposing complicated fixes when I can and go for much subtler changes to numbers. -
Thanks, and what you brought up has to do with problems with the emblem system. I was going to go over that as well, however I refrained for the sake of making the post much smaller and more digestible.EntityDispleased said:This is the first suggestions post that is actually very reasonable and not ridiculous. I'd just love to have the survivor reward system favor boldness over any other activity. It's ridiculous how one person can run the killer around for 5 whole gens, get camped at the end then de-pip because they maxed out boldness points while all other emblems are at 0. It's not the survivor's fault the killer won't leave them alone.
Otherwise, yeah. The current emblem system unreasonably favors Benevolence, specifically unhooks over anything else. Lightbringer, Unbroken, and Evader very poorly reward the player at the moment.
That being said, given how pointless the ranking system is as a measurement of skill and how relatively small a game Dead by Daylight is. I’d argue DBD would benefit from abolishing the ranking system entirely and have matchmaking be solely connection based. The exception being for new players, like it currently is.
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That’s the idea.Fenrir said:
With brutal strength it be fast af boiKissyKissy said:I kind of like the hatch change, though I may feel differently once I see it in action. Kick speed for pallets and gen's is 40% faster? Am I missing something here? Seems crazy, so I may be misinterpreting.
With these changes, the information available to Survivors increases dramatically and the gap between SWF and Solos shortens.
In turn, the Killer needs to become stronger to ensure things don’t get out of hand. -
If Dead by Daylight was free I’d consider it, just to see how well it would run.
However, I doubt most people with consoles even have a good enough PC to run DBD at any decent settings. Due to how poorly optimized it is. -
Maybe one day Behavior will actually make changes that encourage good objective and team play, rather than selfish farming.
However, until that day I don’t blame anyone for doing things like this, regardless of how unfun it is. -
I guess next week.
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I would prefer a lot more “tests” be put on the PTB, because as of right now it’s mostly for ironing out bugs.
There haven’t been any major attempts to close the gap between SWF and Solo, nor has there been any tests for it.
They talked about having Kindred for all Survivors, but they have yet to let us test it. -
On Xbox at least, Crossplay matchmaking is required to provide an “Opt Out” option.Sel said:Lol come on.. PC vs Console on this game? Are you for real!?
Moreover, there could also be options for Crossplay which exclude PC. -
Kind of sad, but maybe they’ll make a more interesting change.MojoTheFabulous said:It's pretty dumb that they scrapped the Legion change because it was a nice way to make using your power against an injured Survivor somewhat more useful.
I’m not holding my breath though. -
I’d be fine with something like this, since it has a use in the entire chase.Milo said:When entering the chase you lose your red stain until the chase is over.
This perk has a cooldown of 20 seconds. (not sure if needed)
Gain x/x/x % more bp in the Hunter Category.
(potential) You get your bloodlust 1/2/3 seconds faster
Mind you Behavior has said they don’t want to introduce perks that affect Blood Lust, because they themselves have said Blood Lust is an unfinished mechanic. -
You can always just make the report and let Behavior decide, because that’s what they’re going to be doing anyway.Michiko said:
No borrowed time involved but yeah I think it's a really iffy situation.ToxicFengM1n said:@Michiko said:
If you're on a hook and a teammate continues to unhook you right in front of the Killer, would that be a legit piece of evidence to report them for griefing/farming? I feel like maybe it wouldn't be considered for a report because I can't really prove they were legitimately farming me.This can be farming if they continue it when the killer is literally on the other side of you, but if borrowed is in play it won't be, but it is really dependent
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I’d want Beast of Prey to be retooled into helping the overall chase.
Rather than just when you’re essentially losing the chase. -
The Left 4 Dead franchise has 2 record selling games made by the ever famous Valve, with huge promotion and a dedicated modding community.SadonicShadow said:@EntityDispleased said:
MCote said he wants this game to stay up for at least 5 more years. So if it's 4 DLCs each year that means at least 20 more killers and survivors each? I'll be pretty heartbroken whenever the final day for this game comes though.So long as the game is maintained properly i see DBD having the potential to stay alive for a very long time. If DBD can maintain steady playerbase numbers like l4d2 can then it will continue to be supported. L4d2 manages to get a mix of 15k - 25k steady and i feel DBD is fully capable of that aswell. I expect to still be playing DBD 10 years from now in the same way i play l4d still.
Dead by Daylight’s success is tiny in comparison. -
Some sort of date like Late January or February would be nice.
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Not necessarily.tt_ivi_99 said:It's an obsession perk, and devs will never change that, therefore tunneling and/or camping is needed for this perk to work, even if It sounds bad to do so.
They could go down the “Save The Best For Last” route and do the complete opposite. -
It’s very odd that it wasn’t.Eninya said:The power gauge change can be pretty useful. I was surprised that this wasn't a baseline function.
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I don’t see a reason not to. It’s just a matter of losing points despite surviving the longest. Similar to how you don’t get your Struggle points too.Milo said:
Okay you got me there. But then we would have to give the option to everyone. Yknow that 4% can give you 1500ModernFable said:
There’s 1500 Blood Points even if you go down immediately.Milo said:No. Point.
Killers (that aren't 20s) would then just stay in front of the hook and wait for you to use it.
Either way the Killer only has to sit in front of you to make sure you don’t escape, so there shouldn’t be any problem there. -
It could be tweaked in numbers.HellDescent said:Your objective is to hook survivors. You will be applying a massive debuff to survivors with minimum effort from your side. Dying light is not that common and it's usually part of a tombstone/mori build. Moris don't appear in bloodweb that often while tombstone gives survivors a chance to do enough progress on the gens. Dying light seems to be fine as it is right now.
Like 4% per hook and then another 4% once you’ve hooked everyone once.
1st: 4%
2nd: 8%
3rd: 12%
4th: 20%
The idea is to shift it from a tunneling perk, to something like BBQ where you’re rewarded for switching up targets often. -
I wouldn’t mind reworking the perk to function similar to Barbeque and Chili. It would encourage a more interactive play style.
The effect would be more consistent and present in all games, rather than mostly just games with a Mori. -
They’re trying to use the PTB more for actually testing changes, rather than just spotting bugs before release.BlackendSea said:Why did they decide to test SC? I thought it seemed fine as is.
Also they mentioned that they may start making multiple Self Healing Perks. So they wanted to see the community’s reaction to this one.