ModernFable
ModernFable
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@humanbeing1704 said:
inb4 the next like 5 patches are basically reverting the perk changes of 6.1.0
Certainly hope not.
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@Advorsus said:
As a killer main I hate that this was brought back.
We pretty much went from a meta of Corrupt, PR, DMS, and BBQ, to a completely open meta. And now back to a meta of Corrupt, PR, DMS, and either bbq or floods of rage, maybe lethal.
It's just dumb that we went completely backwards after a single patch
I was enjoying the variety.
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@Mavericks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107565#Comment_3107565
You're right. The fact is that a good killer will now benefit even more from the resonance of pain+DMS. Because the timer is only 30 seconds. It often happens when you quickly down another survivor and you need to wait reset 45 seconds cooldown, now you don't have to wait 10-20 sec and you can immediately hook up survivor
Pretty nonsensical.
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In addition to this, because Pain Resonance and Dead Man's Switch interact with each other again, it now provides the same level of information as before. Given that DMS highlights the affected generator in white, PR now functions exactly as it did before when combo'd with DMS.
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Instead of attempting to address concerns introduced/worsened in 6.1.0, they reverted on the intended changes 6.1.0 i.e. increasing perk variety by nerfing perks or perk interactions.
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They could have handled the Thanatophobia nerf differently, but it was a point of frustration and so change was warranted.
Bringing back the Pain Resonance and Dead Man's Switch combo? Pretty bizarre.
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Botany Knowledge could have simply been changed to function like Solidarity, where it does not activate if a Med-Kit is being used, which would've addressed the main point of abuse being Med-Kits.
And the Pharmacy change could have just been an added bonus to its old effect.
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The funny thing is, since Pain Resonance knocks people off gens again, its combo with Merciless Storm is arguably stronger.
Where before, you'd have to go through the skill check gauntlet to avoid the gen being blocked. Now if this rare interaction happens, the gen will just be blocked outright. No chance to avoid it.
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@GreyBigfoot said:
There's no downside to more bloodpoints, I think this is an okay idea. Especially because it discourages the killer from tunneling.
As well as better promoting behavior that actually contribute to success i.e. raised values for safe unhooks and escaping chase.
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The game has been in need of some sort of categorization for killers (and potentially perks) for a while now.
So yes, something to this effect would be appreciated.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
I guess I would love these changes to get killer queues back to instant...
Once the matchmaking BP bonus returns, queues will balance themselves out more.
Plus, in addition to the intended effects of these changes, if survivor becomes more appealing to play, then more people will play survivor. And if more people play survivor, then the matchmaking can put together matches more fair matches in a quick manner.
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@Nazzzak said:
Basekit kindred would be good, and your first point could be something to look at if they ever decide to rework Kinship. The latter point isn't necessary imo, they can just rework DS to 4 seconds in that case.
I can't see them changing game mechanics to address the issues, but I can see them adding or reworking survivor perks to deal with it. Much like they added a new perk for killers that enabled them to destroy boons. That way survivors have an *option* to counter these strats, and killers take a risk in relying on them.
Addressing issues through perks i.e. Kindred, Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Buckle Up, Corrupt Intervention, etc. etc. has been Behavior's plan of action for years, and it has not been successful. There needs to be new base mechanics to solve base game issues.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091111#Comment_3091111
Also, the developers made chases way shorter because of all the chasing buffs Killers got. So even though chasing is the most fun part of the game, the developers pretty much got rid of most of the chase mechanics that survivors had. Killers attack faster, bloodlust happens faster, killer break pallets faster, Dead Hard was pretty much removed.
Sure the top tier players can still loop killers but mid tier players just go down instantly, you just removed the ability for mid-tier players to perform chases that last any amount of time.
Again, I don't personally find chases to be the fun-est part of the game. I was speaking for the sake of argument.
And I agree with most of the changes made to killer for this patch, even with the present consequences.
I do however, think that Behavior should have taken more dramatic steps to handle camping and tunneling alongside these changes. So that even with a multitude of killer buffs, the game remains fun for all most of the time.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
I found myself agreeing with the comments of this video.
I like watching/listening to Scott's commentaries on the game. I find myself agreeing with him on most areas of game balance, and often share his concerns about what is updated and when, but he doesn't play the game for the same reason I do.
I play survivor to escape. I like the mental gymnastics required to assess the most optimal task I can be doing, with the limited information I've been provided. Holding M1 on a generator might be boring, but the entire time my mind is analyzing the situation and thinking 2-3 steps ahead about where I need to be.
When a killer tunnels me, I'm stripped of my ability to strategically help my team escape. All I can do at that point is flex my hours on the killer, and hope I have enough resources to make them regret chasing me in the first place. Personally, I don't think there is a very high skill ceiling in looping the killer, so I get less satisfaction out of taking the killer on a 5-gen chases than I do strategically choosing what to work on and where/when.
This sums up much of my thoughts as well. Being chased is a fun "part" of the game, but whether it's the fun-est part of the game is up for debate and even so there's a limit to it.
The planning and moment to moment decision making makes up a chunk of that fun too.
And besides, even if we were to say that it is the fun-est part of the game, too much of something is not good.
Just because I love eating burgers, does not mean I "only" want to eat burgers. And that's all tunneling is from the survivor perspective, with the added awful bonus that you don't get to play the game for very long.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090981#Comment_3090981
Maybe, but perhaps not. It depends on how new the player is or their goals. If you want a prestige 100 character, obviously the bonus is important. But if you have been playing for a year, you probably do not need bloodpoints for your main role anymore. So unless you want to change roles and start from scratch, the BP bonus is whatever.
It will be an incentive. But if there were truly a systematic problem, it would not solve anything. Just like the Overwatch incentives solve nothing.
It is a single factor contributing to queue times.
I am fully aware there are many more, as stated in the previous comment.
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@CookieBaws said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091006#Comment_3091006
They actually were not before 6.1.0.
Devs just did pointed the way by buffing the most annoying ones.
Perhaps we've stumbled upon two different versions of Dead by Daylight then. Since, in my own experience, which is substantiated by the pick rates of perks revealed by Behavior, the most common perks I ran into were things such as:
Hex: Ruin, Pop Goes the Weasel, Corrupt Intervention, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Jolt, Dead Lock, etc. etc..
As well as perks that aren't explicitly slow down like Hex: Undying and Tinkerer.
It was incredibly common for Blights, for instance, to use a build consisting of Hex: Ruin, Hex: Undying, and Pop Goes the Weasel for when Ruin has been completely eliminated from the game. In fact, one can argue that the only reason three slow down perks was so common, is because of the Blood Point bonus from Barbecue and Chili. Otherwise, four would have been more common.
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Three or more slowdown/regression perks has always been the meta.
That being said, not opposed to further balance to avoid stacking of slowdown/regression.
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There are about a dozen reason one could list, but the disappearance of the Queue Blood Point bonus is a large reason I am playing solo survivor less and mostly playing when my friends are online. Once it comes back, I imagine queue times will improve by a fair bit, considering how much people are inclined to do things for Blood Points.
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I see where Scott is coming from however, when I'm playing as survivor I much prefer stealth game-play. The chase is something to escape, and the escape is the point of fun for myself. Similar to how in an intense game of whatever, the game itself is stressful, but the victory is the release.
Besides, I also don't enjoy being the only one in my group interacting with the killer. And maybe Scott doesn't play with friends often, but at least for myself the enjoyment of the group takes precedent over my sole joy. Otherwise, I would just opt to play solo queue, equip a few perks like Distortion, Sole Survivor, Left Behind, etc. and just cruise through escapes.
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@HUAPA456 said:
I think the base kit camaraderie is a good idea!! I'd be sketchy with the 4 second DS base kit that is better than normal DS though lol. And perhaps one day we can get a base kit mini kindred from camping killers.
The numbers are more than open to tweaks. The four second stun is merely a middle ground suggestion, but it's not at all crucial to the intended outcome of these changes.
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@kaoraku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088575#Comment_3088575
Mhm... Okay so if a videogame have to be fun then tell me, how much fun to get for example 0 kills? How much fun to play against a full bully team? Did you considered to make some mechanics against scenario when a survivor camps all the pallets, tbag and blinds you at every pallet? Those ones deserved a mechanic to defend them right.
It makes me remember when survivors come in with 4 flashlights, and when the killer bring lightborn they reeee that he ruined their fun. I guess they wouldn't reee against themself if they bully the hell out of the killer with the flashlights.
It has been repeated in several comments of this discussion, but these changes would not be implemented alone. They would be accompanied by multiple upward adjustments for killer, and most likely tweaks to the suggested mechanics themselves. Both sides should be fun to play.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089414#Comment_3089414
You cannot address things by just penalizing one side. They should incentivize/reward not camping not punish it. No solution should involve a mechanic that survivors can simply abuse ie hook timer freezes based on distance etc.
It can be addressed through penalties and/or rewards, it's simply a matter of preference.
If something is an effective solution with niche cases of abuse, then it can be implemented and adjusted in the PTB.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3089050#Comment_3089050
- so you accept that certain aspects of the game are inevitable? Good start!
- "Unfun" strategies do not need to be addressed just being you find them unfun. If I said "swfs should be removed from the game because they are unfun to go against", would you accept that argument? I think what you mean to say is "I don't like getting eliminated from the game early and as such, I want the game to protect me from getting eliminated early".
- This is a skill issue. There is nothing stopping survivors from cooperating or playing efficiently. You don't need autopilot mechanics to accomplish this.
- Survivor being "unfun" is subjective. and from my first person experience 9/10 times that a survivor says they aren't having fun is because they can't bully the killer lmao. In an asymmetrical game, it is inevitable that at any given point, one side may be having fun at the expense of the other side. But to suggest penalizing strategies we don't like, makes no sense. Teammate getting face camped? Slam gens and body block if you can. But no, let's not come up with counter strategies. Let's create mechanics that will 100% be abused. Makes total sense lol.
If it was just the opinion of a single individual or even just a vocal minority of the community, then perhaps camping and tunneling could be dismissed. However, Behavior themselves have as recently as this patch, attempted to address camping and tunneling. So making suggestions on how to better do that is perfectly logical.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088579#Comment_3088579
What if the killer is a basement / territorial killer : Hag / Trapper having a basement build. You are forcing them to leave their house unprotected.
these killers are already hated by the community for these exact strats and they don't even need it to be viable it just a dick move to get easy kills
both hag and basement have managed to skip balancing to this day.
basement is a boring archaic mechanic that only had a purpose when hooks didn't respawn yet it remained untouched ever since and now only results to encourage camping even more, you should not be rewarded for basement camping/trapping
as for hag she also a relic of old dbd when the devs didn't have "disable killer power in hook proximity" in mind and is considered a boring killer by both sides for her campy uninteractive playstyle
these points do not give a reason on why op's suggestions wouldn't work
trapper and hag do not need basement.
Additionally, individual killers can be buffed if they are especially hurt by the implementation of these changes.
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@SOULWARRIOR71K said:
Here's a few solutions that you can take advantage of right now:
- Don't get downed
- Bring perks to counter
- Have teammates body block for you
- Stop using bad teammates as an excuse to overbuff your role (you don't need to be in a swf to play efficiently - the truth is most survivors are carried by swfs and are average/bad on their own)
- See steps 1-4 then proceed to step 6
- Play killer and be the change you want to see ie don't camp or tunnel
Attempting to address the seemingly facetious commentary:
- Is not a argument for anything, getting downed is a nigh inevitable part of DBD
- The point is to have mechanics that address unfun strategies built into the game regardless of how you play, what you play with, or who you play with
- DBD is largely a game where the likelihood of teammates assisting one another is slim, because individually escaping is not dependent on the group at large escaping
- Very difficult to avoid first person here but: I play killer more than I play survivor. That does not mean the survivor side should not fun. Both sides should be fun most of the time.
- See responses 1-4, then proceed to response 6
- See response 4.
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@SekiSeki said:
There is a reason so few people use those perks, I would assume those who do are going for achievements.
So adding ways to push for more teamplay is individual preference but taking them away is solving the issue? I don't think I can get anywhere with this conversation. GL
The argument can extend to any perk that does not specifcally push a survivor towards team-play i.e. Adrenaline, Inner Healing, etc.. Simply using a perk and engaging in stealth-play, which is not team oriented, can count.
The previous response should be clarified though.
Both are preferences, but the Behavior has expressed desire to introduce mechanics such as action icons (ex: Kate is doing a generator, Dwight is hiding in a locker, etc.), that may reduce team-play, yet that is not stopping them from pursuing such changes. As such, just because something may reduce the potential of team-play, does not mean it should not be implemented, that is the opinion of Behavior themselves: an opinion with greater authority then any forum member, given the fact that they are the ones with the ability to change the game.
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@Chaoxide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088710#Comment_3088710
Even 4s is too much, giving them one of the most powerful perks in the game can be easily abused and manipulated. Its giving survivors 5 perks
That may very well be the case. And if it turns out to be so, then it shall be reduced in the the PTB of said changes.
It is worth noting however, that this mechanic would be a much shorter duration, at twenty seconds compared to sixty.
And as stated in various other comments, these changes intend to address camping, tunneling, and the gap between SS and SWF. Killers shall be upwardly adjusted in the same or following patch/PTB due to these changes, but that is a separate issue.
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@SekiSeki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088594#Comment_3088594
I think a part of the fun that revolves around dbd are the moments where you can make plays that change the outcome of the game. For survivor, making plays as a team is that much more fun. A lot of games I see survivors splitting up to do gens, they complete the objective but do nothing as a team. Those are always the most boring games, for killer and survivor. Encouraging more teamplay is the best way to handle any core mechanic problem. That is why it should not be a passive process as it will remove another instance where a team can come together and make a play.
There shall be an attempt to break this down in pieces.
If one finds team-play more interesting than solo, that that is there preference. However, it should not be overstated, especially considering there are numerous perks and builds that expressly promote solo play i.e. Sole Survivor, Left Behind, Self-Preservation, and arguably any perk that does not expressly funnel one towards teammates. As such, prioritizing the encouragement of team-play for fun or as a guiding for balance is an individual preference, and should not be a barrier to the aforementioned changes.
Moreover, simply introducing passive mechanics preventing unfun strategies will not outright eliminate potential opportunities for team-play. Rather it will close the gap between SS where team-play is at its weakest and SWF where team-play is at its strongest. And if one is against that, so be it, another preference. However, it should be noted that closing the gap between SS and SWF has been a reoccurring suggestions for multiple years, as well as something that Behavior themselves have stated they plan to address via icons and other mechanics.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088719#Comment_3088719
So you want to shake up the base mecanics, destroy builds, nerfs territorial killers because a tiny of minority of killers facecamp when it’s not even effective ?
It’s never going to happen.
The desire is to introduce mechanics that ensure fun is a more likely scenario by lessening the effectiveness of unfun strategies.
If that comes at the cost specific builds, then so be it.
Also, a few things to note. The actual amount of killers participating in these strategies, as well as the effectiveness of said strategies, is something that is only assuredly known by Behavior. It is not something a forum member can declare based off their own anecdotal evidence.
Nor can said individual decide whether or not changes can or cannot occur. The community can merely suggest and discuss.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088676#Comment_3088676
Which killer can guarantee kills with facecamp besides Booba ?
Whether a kill is guaranteed or not is irrelevant to the matter of if it is fun to be face-camped.
Of which, the general census of the Dead by Daylight community is thus: being face-camped is not fun.
And more over, the matter of these strategies being unfun is the entire grounds for these suggestions.
Playing DBD as killer or survivor should be fun. If the game becomes unbalanced, favoring one side or the other, that is a separate issue that can be addressed in the same or following patch/PTB. However, changes should be made to ensure fun is the most likely scenario for all.
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@Chaoxide said:
I understand that tunneling and camping are concerns, however with the way the game is currently these changes can be abused to the extreme by every single survivor in the game who has some level of decent gameplay comprehension.
The 5s stun is even more powerful then DS in its current form and gets rid of the need of the perk in the first place allowing easy access to other perks with no consequence such as prove thyself, botany knowledge, unbreakable, quick and quiet, iron will, lucky break or any other borderline meta perks essentially giving survivors a 5th perk slot. The survivors don't need this at all and can run several perks to counter tunneling if they desire or feel like its too powerful like off the record which Is 80s of invincibility.
The Hook timer being paused is more understandable for its a less common if not rare perk comradary being used, but instead of out right pausing the timer it should just make it so it takes half the hook time
The proposed stun is four seconds, a middle ground between the previous balance point of Decisive Strike and the current.
Addressing the other concerns though, other comments shall be deferred to:
@ModernFable said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088534#Comment_3088534
There appears to be a noticeable difference of beliefs then.
Given that camping and tunneling are vocal points of frustration in the community, given that Dead by Daylight is a video game for the purpose of fun, should it not be a given that the game be inherently designed to combat unfun scenarios?
@ModernFable said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088537#Comment_3088537
Thank you for providing an additional response, now to address it.
One can argue that there are many situations where camping or tunneling is the most effective play. However, whether or not these strategies are effective or not, they can be noticeably frustrating for players on the receiving end. As such, considering this is a video game with a primary purpose of fun, if it is possible to lessen the effectiveness said strategies, then it should be done.
It should noted once more that these changes are intended to address camping, tunneling, and the gap between SS and SWF. These changes will indeed increase the strength of survivors by a significant margin, and as a consequence killers would receive upward adjustments either in the same patch or the following.
The buffs to survivor will not be ignored, and further balance on the power dynamic shall be applied in the same or following patch/PTB.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088621#Comment_3088621
« Perhaps the paused progression can be disabled if the hook itself is within range of a generator? »
This is easy to abuse on the killer side this time, a lot of hooks are near generators. Most facecamper already use agitation.
Facecamping is only an issue on Booba, that’s it. Don’t create unnecessary restrictions for everyone because of a single killer.
Again, the specifics can be hashed out on a PTB. And once more, whether it can be abused (by survivor or killer) in niche scenarios should not be the wall stopping the introduction of this mechanics.
Face-camping is not strictly a Cannibal issue, he is a notorious face-camper, however it is not exclusive to him. Also, face-camping has noticeably gained strength in the 6.1.0 patch with the base attack cool down reduction as well as the newfound popularity of Save the Best for Last.
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@VoidOfMe said:
what if the blood points for the killer regresses until reaching a total of zero if he camps a survivor for x minutes?
i'm not talking about only one of these:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MLT49T6W1K1W/asdasdsadadasdad.jpg
I'm talking about bringing all of them to zero.
You wanna win the game like that? fine, but you leave with zero bp.
i bet you we would never see a camping bubba ever again
This can certainly be a point of consideration.
However, considering how harsh it is, perhaps it should be implemented afterwards. Once, the strategies themselves become inherently less appealing and killer is upwardly adjusted, ensuring both sides are still having fun.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088543#Comment_3088543
You are creating new safe zones for survivors. What if the killer is planning to get a 3 gens and hook 2 survivors in the middle of it ?
With your patch, he has to leave the area instead of protecting gens and hooks he worked for, giving the remaining survivors free unhooks where they don’t even have to take a hit for.
What if the killer is a basement / territorial killer : Hag / Trapper having a basement build. You are forcing them to leave their house unprotected. Not everyone is playing facecamp Booba you know.
Those scenarios can potentially be addressed through additional caveats or adjusted ranges.
Perhaps the paused progression can be disabled if the hook itself is within range of a generator? The exact details can be addressed during a PTB where these situations can be actually observed. However, one can argue that the potential good these changes will provide outweigh the potential cases for abuse. Especially considering that survivors will be buffed by these changes no matter what, and thus killer will receive upward adjustments as well.
On the last point though, if those builds are nerfed indirectly by these changes, then they can be buffed after these changes have been made. They should not halt the implementation of mechanics intending to produce more fun games, simply because they would become weaker for a while.
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@SekiSeki said:
I like the requirement of needing to be in chase. That's definitely something that could involve a solution.
I don't think combating the tunnel/camp should be a passive process of the survivors, I think it should be an active one, one which a team who plays right, can fight it. I've juggled the idea of DS base kit and through discussion, have kind of moved passed that idea. I don't think that is the solution either.
Take a look at my attempt at solving this issue. Pay close attention to Perseverance and the new item mechanic.
There appears to be a noticeable difference of beliefs then.
Given that camping and tunneling are vocal points of frustration in the community, given that Dead by Daylight is a video game for the purpose of fun, should it not be a given that the game be inherently designed to combat unfun scenarios?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088514#Comment_3088514
Even without survivors in the area to pause the timer. There are legitimate times where camping is the smart option. See 3 gen situations as example. It takes away player agency if you flat out say "no. You HAVE to leave and you CANT do that"
DS is too good to be basekit. They just need to adjust it back to 5 seconds.
Thank you for providing an additional response, now to address it.
One can argue that there are many situations where camping or tunneling is the most effective play. However, whether or not these strategies are effective or not, they can be noticeably frustrating for players on the receiving end. As such, considering this is a video game with a primary purpose of fun, if it is possible to lessen the effectiveness said strategies, then it should be done.
It should noted once more that these changes are intended to address camping, tunneling, and the gap between SS and SWF. These changes will indeed increase the strength of survivors by a significant margin, and as a consequence killers would receive upward adjustments either in the same patch or the following.
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@Murgleïs said:
« The first action will be pausing the entity progression of a hooked survivor if a killer is within sixteen meters of the hook »
Very easy to abuse (even with your restrictions). Doesn’t make the game more fun for both sides.
« Additionally, if a survivor is on hook, all survivors auras become revealed to all survivors. »
Free info you don’t deserve, removing the horror aspect of the game. Use kindred.
« Tunneling can be dealt with by applying a short (perhaps twenty second) grace period where after being unhooked »
If you need that use OTR.
« being picked up by the killer will result in a four second stun (disabled if: the exit gates are powered or performing a Conspicuous Action). »
Use DS.
Thank you for taking to time to provide feedback. That being said, consider the following.
Citing a situation where the paused progression can be abused would be appreciated. Also, the intention, as stated, is to address camping specifically. Adjustments to killer can be handled in the same patch or a following patch. These changes are intended to lessen frustrations and ease future balancing (in the case of the SS v SWF gap).
On the second point, one can argue that DBD is not and has not ever successfully existed as a horror game. As such, using that as a reason for why a mechanic should not implemented seems rather opinionated.
On the third point and fourth point, the introduction of these mechanics is to lessen frustrations of DBD, regardless of how one chooses to play, what they may play with, or who they may play with.
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@BrokenSouI said:
Yea no. It doesn't work on so many levels. Thank you for the effort though.
Care to elaborate in any capacity?
The post was kept brief for the stated reasons, however, responding to concerns in the comments is should be fine.
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@HexPleaseLetMeSpeak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/332902/early-to-mid-game-camping-is-worse
"20% haste but gets disabled if you use your power" so screw ghostface ig? So is he supposed to hook and then just not use night shroud, walk for 10 seconds and then use it? I don't think the power should matter.
Perhaps it could have an exception for non lethal powers.
However the restriction is intended to prevent something like light speed Bubba chainsaws.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Pausing the Hook timer will never work because of how abuseable it is
”Never” is a bit absurd to say.
There simply needs to be a variety of restrictions or caveats to the effect. Such as other Survivors in range trying to unhook in front of the Killer with no consequence. In that situation the effect should probably be disabled, as mentioned in the post.
There may need to be a decent amount of conditions that would disable the pause which may take a few attempts.
However, considering the potential to virtually remove face camping from existence, it should be looked into.
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@Chadku said:
That wouldn't fix camping since killer will wait outside of 24m or camp the hook if the entity progress continues due to a survivor hiding somewhere in the range.
Some maps are also designed in such a crappy fashion that camping is better than chasing down a survivor.
This wouldn’t fix camping in its entirety, no.
However, these changes would effectively remove face camping from existence. And open opportunity for additional changes.
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Because removing perk tiers and the mediocre blood point offerings would have been too easy.
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@Chaoxide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2293784#Comment_2293784
You think thats a nerf?....my guy you lose red stain instantly....
I think it’s pretty decent if not great.
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@Freedo This seems like a pretty reasonable, fair, yet effective buff, nicely done.
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@Kyxlect said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/257137/changing-perks-to-improve-player-experience
Mainly just looking at Beast of Prey at the moment. So you basically want to nerf a perk that's never used in the first place? 10 Seconds of Undetectable status as soon as you enter a chase is nothing. In it's current state, it may have some effectiveness versus more skilled Survivor's since they're constantly looking for the red stain but it's also very useless because Bloodlust is not very useful and you lose it after you miss an attack, get pallet stunned, break a pallet or if you can't lock onto a Survivor fast enough.
I kind of thought of another idea for reworking this perk. So instead of gaining the Undetectable status, how about significant buffs as soon as you obtain Bloodlust? +X% Window Vaulting Speed and a unique one, if you're hit with a Pallet while Bloodlust is Active you immediately slam it back up against the wall. (removing the stun as well or significantly reducing the stun duration? The aim here is to shorten chases and retain Bloodlust)
"Your lust for a kill is so intense that your connection with The Entity is momentarily lost, making you totally unpredictable."
This would also help M1 Killers end chases quicker.
- Nerf? Beast of Prey currently only gives you Undetectable as long as Bloodlust is active. Bloodlust requires a continuous 15 second chase without hitting the Survivor, breaking a pallet, or using their power at all. None of which accounts for the inconsistency of chases and how easily they can suddenly end. My version would consistently grant Undetectable at the start of chases with uses for mind games or even just leaving the Survivor immediately to sneak up on someone else.
- Whether this change would be a buff or nerf is not the point. These perk changes are intended to deter ill advised or unfun play styles. i.e Insidious camping, tunneling the obsession with Remember Me,Dead Man's Switch, etc. etc.. If this version turns out weaker, then the duration and cool-down can easily be adjusted to buff it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2271451#Comment_2271451
You didn't need to add the DR, it is painfully obvious you didn't read if that is your takeaway.
Not too keen on the WGLF idea, spreading things out a lot would probably actually make it somewhat harder to stack multiple stacks. I think it's fine to declare any of the options repeatable, as there's really no harm in letting WGLF hit 4 stacks more consistently. I'd personally feel more for distributing some of the conditions to other perks, like giving Small Game or Detective's Hunch a BP bonus upon cleansing totems, or a gen-related perk give a BP bonus per X% of gen progress.
Also, I think it'd be better to make it 'cleanse a totem' than 'cleanse a hex totem'. The latter will be dependent on the killer and will be in VERY short supply, which causes survivors to compete for it.
The idea is to reward Survivors doing a multitude of things that assist everyone’s escape.
Cleansing dull totems doesn’t help the team in any way, shape, or form, unless the killer has NOED.
And I understand that it would make the stacks more difficult to achieve and that Hexes are not always an option. It’s why I gave more than 4 conditions for tokens.
That being said, more conditions for tokens could be added, so long as they follow the design philosophy of helping the team escape.
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@Chaoxide said:
I agree that perks should be changed to encourage less "toxic" behavior, like were gonna live forever shouldnt just reward you not only with the easiest emblem to farm, but the most bp potential for survivors. However i dont think things like Undetectable on start of a chase would ever be fun in my eyes. For i dont like guessing games, its why i dont like Spirit. And i can see Insid being extremely un fun to fight,bubba just stops moving for 2s now he chainsaws a non swf instantly or maybe even yourself who was in the chase but didnt want to risk leaving the zone, i just dont think it would be healthy. It would or could be fun a couple times but not healthy if the killer just wants to kill someone they would with these perks. Deadmans just creates late game snowball, i like the idea of it but many good killers would just snowball with one slug.
Well given the nature of these perks, number adjustments could have large enough impacts on them to balance them.
The idea is to avoid ill or unfun behavior.
WGLF pushes rushed unhooks or unhelpful body blocks.
Insidious pushes camping and Beast of Prey encourages using Blood Lust.
Whether they’re under or overtuned can be fixed in a round of the PTB.
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@DbD_Enjoyer said:
TL; DR: Nerf Killers and Buff Survivors! NOW !!!
- This isn't a post about fixing the imbalances in the game, I have a dozen other posts about that, check 'em out.
- I don't know how you could think my versions of Beast of Prey, Dead Man's Switch, Insidious, and No Way Out are worse than their current iterations.
- If you do feel that way, could you explain?
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Fixing spawns would go a long way to improving the pacing and consistency of the game.