ModernFable
ModernFable
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Dead by Daylight is far more of a survival game than horror, but yeah I was considering it.
I've played RE5, some of RE4, and watched all of RE7. This one looks interesting, but I’d probably wait for a sale if anything. No need to rush out and get it. -
I’m aware, that also means that you can just turn your camera slightly away.AetherBytes said:@ModernFable said:
AetherBytes said:Actually, that entity sign sounds good. If the killer is looking at the survivor, or the survivor is in terror radius, the symbol acts as a warning.
Thanks, although I’d much rather it be a button press. For the simple fact that Terror Radius and line of sight can be avoided easily.
Line of sight means at all visible.
I assure you, there would be ways to work around it. Just like chasing people with Legion’s Frenzy while staring at the blood trail.
A button press wouldn’t have this problem. -
Thanks, although I’d much rather it be a button press. For the simple fact that Terror Radius and line of sight can be avoided easily.AetherBytes said:Actually, that entity sign sounds good. If the killer is looking at the survivor, or the survivor is in terror radius, the symbol acts as a warning.
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The game is not tense and never has been.twistedmonkey said:
It sounds like you are too new to realise that each time they add something like the suggestions it removes tension in a game, why wonder if you need to hide when you hear a heartbeat when you know where they are? Why go for a save when you know where they are? All this does is allow all the survivors not only swf stay on gens for shorter matches.ModernFable said:“No the game has already been dumbed down enough due to SWF, so many notifications and aura reading perks for both sides.”
- You
They don’t clutter the HUD, and as you said most people should know by the time they’re out of Rank 15, so why does it matter?
They’re mostly quality of life than anything else.
And if you weren’t referring to aura reading perks when talking about dumbing down the game, why did you even mention them?
Moreover on the topic of:
“there’s no way to close the gap between SWF and solo”
- You
Yes there is, most of the suggestions in this post strictly benefit Solo Survivors and thus shortens gap between them. Quite significantly, I might add.
And whether or not you think SWF is broken or not, it’s been here for quite some time and is likely here to stay. They’ve said they don’t have the tech at the moment to specifically nerf SWF lobbies because they don’t track whether a lobby is Solo or SWF.
So the logical alternative is to instead bring Solos up to SWF’s power.
This is not the way to fix the problem making it even more of an m1 simulator, it just means we know everything instead of having to be aware, sounds really fun doesn't it?
The thing is you don't seem to think about how each one off these buffs also inherently buff swf, the one thing say has that they will never be able to give is on the fly updates, the killer us going to shack, I used that pallet, no pallets left around the harvester, open the gate I have dead hard etc, to think some notifications and aura perks will bring solo anywhere near the same level is laughable.
Of course SWF is here to stay who said otherwise? they actually do track swf v solo hence the stats they released on percentages on who plays what, having the tech and hand and it not being available are two different things, the tech us out there they just need to get it in place.
The logical point to fix anything broken is to fix what is not every single thing around it, would you change 6 circuit boards, replace a whole cistern to fix a faulty pipe? Or would you look to fix which is broken?
Dead by Daylight is not a horror game. It’s a cooperative survival game where you do gens and run around pallets.
Trying to keep the “immersion” in an online survival game like this is kind of a fruitless effort. Especially when Survivors in neon skirts and cowboy hats are teabagging supernatural Killers in santa and school girl outfits. And just because having more info on hand sounds less fun to you, doesn’t mean it does to others.
I've stated multiple times that unless there’s voice coms, then SWF will still be greater than Solos. This is true, but there’s still a lot that can be down to reduce the gap. Even if they don’t have on the fly updates, these changes will reduce the ginormous difference.
They track SWF for stats, however they do not have the code in place to make nerfs specifically for SWF lobbies.
Moreover you’re specifically identifying SWF as a problem. Considering it’s not going anywhere and it would require creating new assets to change it directly, it seems more logical to simply buff Solos. The assets are already here and the changes could be applied much faster. -
“No the game has already been dumbed down enough due to SWF, so many notifications and aura reading perks for both sides.”twistedmonkey said:
What the hell are you on about? Did I say remove any perks or are you just jumping to conclusions as you don't know the meaning of the word NOTIFICATIONSModernFable said:Oh yeah, I’m sure removing half the mechanics and perks in the game will be super easy, balanced, and not controversial at all. Then everyone will be able to be as good as you!
Listen, even if they followed through with your outlandish idea, that still wouldn’t address the gap between SWF and Solo.
Which is the whole point of this discussion.
There is no way to close the gap between SWF and solo, imo they need to stop trying to fix everything that works turning the game into a walk fest knowing each and everything that's happening for those who play as intended and concentrate on doing something which us broken namely SWF.
- You
They don’t clutter the HUD, and as you said most people should know by the time they’re out of Rank 15, so why does it matter?
They’re mostly quality of life than anything else.
And if you weren’t referring to aura reading perks when talking about dumbing down the game, why did you even mention them?
Moreover on the topic of:
“there’s no way to close the gap between SWF and solo”
- You
Yes there is, most of the suggestions in this post strictly benefit Solo Survivors and thus shortens gap between them. Quite significantly, I might add.
And whether or not you think SWF is broken or not, it’s been here for quite some time and is likely here to stay. They’ve said they don’t have the tech at the moment to specifically nerf SWF lobbies because they don’t track whether a lobby is Solo or SWF.
So the logical alternative is to instead bring Solos up to SWF’s power. -
Oh yeah, I’m sure removing half the mechanics and perks in the game will be super easy, balanced, and not controversial at all. Then everyone will be able to be as good as you!twistedmonkey said:No the game has already been dumbed down enough due to SWF, so many notifications and aura reading perks for both sides.
Why play a game, learn and get better when the devs will simply show us where to go and what's happening in every scenario.
All these notifications should be removed once you reach rank 15 imo and you get out the learning zone.
Listen, even if they followed through with your outlandish idea, that still wouldn’t address the gap between SWF and Solo.
Which is the whole point of this discussion.
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Obviously they need a detailed plan, however they’re not going to copy some random person’s step by step plan on the forums or reddit.Rebel_Raven said:
Like I said, vague plans.Bongbingbing said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Here is a huge hurdle as to why we cannot just close the gap between SWF and solo...How do we balance the killers afterwards?
No one knows. At best I see people come up with vague ideas.It's just dumb to think that killers will hang around when even solos could be potentially as strong as a 4 man swf right from rank 20.
There's plenty of ways you could buff killers. They could change some mechanics in game like kicking gens regresses a percentage before regressing regularly or speed up hook progressing, even buffing movement speed for all killers, or rework all their individual powers a bit.
I'm sure Rank 20 killers are already going against SWF their the majority of the playerbase. If Devs wants to keep new killers interested in the game something has to change, the more you rank up the less fun killer is to play and the more stressful it becomes.
They need a realistic plan ready to put into place because the gap between killer and survivors is going to widen immensely, and killers will be hard pressed to want to hang around.
They want feedback and suggestions, but past that they don’t really care.
Behavior is going to do what they want to do. So the best thing we can do as community members is provide ample feedback and suggest a variety of solutions to current game problems.
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Pretty much.Bongbingbing said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Here is a huge hurdle as to why we cannot just close the gap between SWF and solo...How do we balance the killers afterwards?
No one knows. At best I see people come up with vague ideas.It's just dumb to think that killers will hang around when even solos could be potentially as strong as a 4 man swf right from rank 20.
There's plenty of ways you could buff killers. They could change some mechanics in game like kicking gens regresses a percentage before regressing regularly or speed up hook progressing, even buffing movement speed for all killers, or rework all their individual powers a bit.
I'm sure Rank 20 killers are already going against SWF their the majority of the playerbase. If Devs wants to keep new killers interested in the game something has to change, the more you rank up the less fun killer is to play and the more stressful it becomes.
There’s a very wide array of possible buffs or nerfs once the gap is small.
Although I’d hesitate on speeding up hook progression as that would encourage camping. -
It’s not like Behavior hasn’t put any thought into SWF nerfs. It’s just that most of the time, those nerfs hurt unintentionally hurt Solos.Rebel_Raven said:Here is a huge hurdle as to why we cannot just close the gap between SWF and solo...
How do we balance the killers afterwards?
No one knows. At best I see people come up with vague ideas.
It's just dumb to think that killers will hang around when even solos could be potentially as strong as a 4 man swf right from rank 20.
So once the gap is relatively small, then Behavior will have free reign to make changes as they see fit.
Also I don’t think rank 20 SWF or buffed Solos are really a problem. It’s better that people are playing together and having fun when they first get the game anyway. However if they want to or have to play alone when starting out, then they should have fun too.
Dead by Daylight still has room to grow it’s playerbase, and making learning the game easier will always help. -
I don’t think so either.ad19970 said:@thesuicidefox said:
NO
Solo survivor is just fine. We don't need to give them anything. If you have 4 top tier solo survivors it can be way harder than most SWF groups.
What they should do is limit perk usage of SWF groups such that there is only ever 1 instance of a perk allowed. This puts the focus of SWF on team builds, which is what they should be doing anyway. Letting them all run DS/Adren/DH/SC is what makes SWF so overwhelming. It'd break up the meta a bit.
And before someone says something stupid because they don't actually read the post, this only applies to SWF groups. If you come into a game solo, even if the other 3 players are in a group, you have no limits. You can do whatever you want.
I just don't think many people will be happy if they are forced to use less perks because they are playing with friends. Might really hurt the game.
I'm very much avoiding doing anything that “takes away” from the game. Rather I’m looking to improve Solos and add some quality of life to others.
I’m very curious what some developer thoughts on this are, or even some moderators.
@MandyTalk
@Peanits
@Patricia
@not_Queen -
That’s also possible, however the changes I suggested have many attractive draws.Master said:@ModernFable said:
Master said:The only proper solution to the solo/SWF gap is implementing ingame voice comms.
I stated at the very beginning of my discussion that these changes would never truly close the gap because of the power of voice communication.
However, Behavior has made it clear that they don’t want to implement it, while also stating they still want to reduce the gap.
I made these changes with their design goals in mind, as well as ease of coding.
BHVR has said a lot and then changed their midn again.
There will never be a clown in the game (just one example)
They use in game assets, they’re easier to code because of this, and there’s even more that I haven’t mentioned yet:
This will make it easier for new players to pick up the game.
Many people bought this together with their friends and just want to have a fun casual experience. These changes with both assist in learning the game and playing in Solos. As well as provide some quality of life to the game in general.
Another note to this, is that voice coms would be useless to those who are without microphones, are mute, or just don’t want to talk. The changes I’ve suggested would be of great use to those individuals. -
I didn’t want to cause any confusion with aura perks, because when someone is in dying state they’ll appear yellow with Bond and Empathy.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:I'd say make their aura yellow at 95%, and make the obsession icon the same, while removing the 2 smaller fingers from the non-obsession.
Also that could be an option for the “entity icon”, I was specifically only using current game assets to make patching these changes much easier and faster. -
I stated at the very beginning of my discussion that these changes would never truly close the gap because of the power of voice communication.Master said:The only proper solution to the solo/SWF gap is implementing ingame voice comms.
However, Behavior has made it clear that they don’t want to implement it, while also stating they still want to reduce the gap.
I made these changes with their design goals in mind, as well as ease of coding. -
Well I haven’t been on these forums as long as others, but I think I can.DwightsLifeMatters said:I made the suggestion about the entity legs in the HUD a while ago. U can't imagine how mad people went.
And hopefully with the short sentences and pictures provided, people will be able to understand it better. -
Whether or not that’s the case on paper, it doesn’t matter much.thesuicidefox said:@ad19970 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
NO
Solo survivor is just fine. We don't need to give them anything. If you have 4 top tier solo survivors it can be way harder than most SWF groups.
What they should do is limit perk usage of SWF groups such that there is only ever 1 instance of a perk allowed. This puts the focus of SWF on team builds, which is what they should be doing anyway. Letting them all run DS/Adren/DH/SC is what makes SWF so overwhelming. It'd break up the meta a bit.
And before someone says something stupid because they don't actually read the post, this only applies to SWF groups. If you come into a game solo, even if the other 3 players are in a group, you have no limits. You can do whatever you want.
I just don't think many people will be happy if they are forced to use less perks because they are playing with friends. Might really hurt the game.
Your choices are buff solo or nerf SWF. And since solo is in the perfect spot right now, it makes the most sense to nerf SWF.
There’s a lot more ways that Behavior can buff Solo than nerf SWF.
That is without disabling all 3rd party software and implementing nerfs that specifically affect SWF queues. Which would both be controversial and far more technically challenging since they would need to create the assets for the second part.
I suggested these changes because the assets are already here, so they’re easy to implement. And it’s more intuitive and interesting than just slapping on a debuff to SWF while cutting off they’re coms. -
SWF doesn’t split up the player base, they’re still all in the same queue.PureHostility said:@raw_bean said:
@PureHostility said:
No, you are looking at it at the wrong angle.
You should make game much harder for SWF rather than make solo as stupid as SWF currently is.How? Short of magically disabling their microphones there's nothing you can really do about the core problem.
"But it splits the playerbase" so does the current mode.
Playing with and against SWF is a frakking nightmare or a chore as a solo survivor or as a killer.
Don't want this?
Mark SWF players in lobby so players can act accordingly (prepare their loadouts, or dodge as they already are by checking their friend steam profiles).
What you’re suggesting would split up the player base, and increase the rate of dodging.
Dead by Daylight’s player base is fair, but not massive. It’s small enough that people at higher and bottom ranks consistently have very long queue timers. And compared to other small player bases, the queues here are even more fragile because it needs to be a 4 - 1 split.
People want to play with their friends. People want to talk to their friends. Anything that makes the game less fun should be addressed quickly and always avoided when given the opportunity.
Make Solo way more on par with SWF. Then buff Killers and/or nerf Survivors in the same patch. These changes are far easier to implement than any handicap to SWF would be. -
This is pretty much the problem that’s always been around.raw_bean said:@PureHostility said:
No, you are looking at it at the wrong angle.
You should make game much harder for SWF rather than make solo as stupid as SWF currently is.How? Short of magically disabling their microphones there's nothing you can really do about the core problem.
People will find always find way to communicate and stopping them from doing so will stop a fair few people from even playing Dead by Daylight.
Moreover, just adding nerfs where it only affects SWF queues would both be less intuitive and more challenging compared to what I’ve suggested here.
Bring Solos to SWF level, then nerf Survivors and/or buff Killers. -
The only thing that post shows is that a small vocal minority on these forums wants a more immersed experience.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:There is a problem with increasing communication and that is that;
The majority likes the immersed experienced more.
That aside, I really like the Chase HUD and the 95% indicator.
I'd say make their aura yellow at 95%, and make the obsession icon the same, while removing the 2 smaller fingers from the non-obsession.
And given how few replies that post had, a very very small vocal minority. -
Handicapping SWF is far more difficult than simply giving Solo more information.PureHostility said:No, you are looking at it at the wrong angle.
You should make game much harder for SWF rather than make solo as stupid as SWF currently is. -
Of course.Tsulan said:I assume that after these important survivor buffs, killers get heavily buffed.
I always find it rather weird on these forums.
Most people assume I’m trying to post the whole patch notes. No, there would be Killer buffs and/or Survivor nerfs I assure you, that was the whole point. -
Naturally.DocOctober said:Such changes would need to be made alongside appropriate Killer buffs.
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If you’re Solo and it does, then good.weirdkid5 said:Please no don't make this game any easier for me.
The whole point is to reduce the communication gap between SWF and Solo.
That way, balancing Survivor or Killer gameplay will be much easier. -
Not bannable.
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Not unless they made a stealth change.
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If Dead by Daylight was making very even matches and only struggled in queue times, I would understand the outrage.Attackfrog said:The point is: this game has no rank system. The system it calls "rank" is merely a third (and unnecessary) system to portray a player's time investment.
It is designed to protect new players, but due to the ease of abuse, it does the opposite: allows more hardcore players to bully them for more bloodpoints.
But it doesn’t, often matches are quite unbalanced and worsened by SWF (high ranks queuing with low ranks). Not to mention how exploitable the whole system is.
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Unlikely because of your console choice, but maybe one day.FayeZahara said:
Oh my gosh yes i hope they impliment cross play at least. I would quite enjoy cross progression cause my ps4 versus my pc progression is more. Plus i want my ps4 outfits on all devices.ModernFable said:Smite.
Season 6 is approaching with Cross Play and Cross Progression, so I’m getting excited.
If only Dead by Daylight could get in on that. -
Smite.
Season 6 is approaching with Cross Play and Cross Progression, so I’m getting excited.
If only Dead by Daylight could get in on that.
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The game’s DLC practices.
Most DLC would be locked behind only cash, but Dead by Daylight let’s me buy all non licensed characters with earnable currency.
Some other games have stuff like this, but DBD’s characters don’t cost an absurd amount so it’s actually achievable. -
It’s to visualize the “Co-op Deficiency.”
When you work on a Gen you do it at 100% speed.
When two people work on a Gen they do it at 180% speed, or 90% each.
Since you’re not repairing at 100% speed individually, they show a red bar.
You still repair much faster together, but that’s the explanation. -
Optimization Pass Coming Soon™!
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Ah okay, I getcha.Master said:@ModernFable said:
Master said:@ModernFable said:
DexyIV said:
Abolishing it how? So a past rank 1 survivor has the chance to go against a new player and soil their initial experience with the game? The current iteration of the system may suck, but at least it prevents new players from getting smashed initially for the most part There are several comments discussing this.
New players would be the exception and be isolated from most players.
We had a thread today from a rank 20 killer that was complaining that nobody joined his lobby for an hour.
So?
All that shows is that the current system is ineffective at helping new players.
How does that show that removing ranks, and then creating a system for new players would be bad?
I was just trying to point out how the system that is supposed to protect the beginners hurts them actually
Lots of resistance on this and I wasn’t sure what exactly you meant. -
Probably messed up the text when they were testing those Self Care changes.
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It’s a nerf to using Monitor & Abuse, while a buff to things like Distressing and Unnerving Presence.
It’s not all bad, plus Pig received the crouch buff. -
So?Master said:@ModernFable said:
DexyIV said:Abolishing it how? So a past rank 1 survivor has the chance to go against a new player and soil their initial experience with the game? The current iteration of the system may suck, but at least it prevents new players from getting smashed initially for the most part
There are several comments discussing this.
New players would be the exception and be isolated from most players.
We had a thread today from a rank 20 killer that was complaining that nobody joined his lobby for an hour.
All that shows is that the current system is ineffective at helping new players.
How does that show that removing ranks, and then creating a system for new players would be bad? -
They might have messed up and didn’t actually change it, but changed the text.JammyJewels said:Well, how ‘bout this. Unless they removed the feature to see others’ healing speeds increase then Leader does not work. I had a Nea healing me and it felt incredibly slow and was a grey bar. I know what a 25% percent in healing looks like, given I used to use Botany pre-buff, but the speed it took was the standard time. By the way there was nothing to slow it down, so no Thanatophobia or Coulrophobia or whatever. -
There are several comments discussing this.DexyIV said:Abolishing it how? So a past rank 1 survivor has the chance to go against a new player and soil their initial experience with the game? The current iteration of the system may suck, but at least it prevents new players from getting smashed initially for the most part
New players would be the exception and be isolated from most players. -
Prove Thyself works on Gens and Leader doesn’t.BlackReaper said:@Delfador said:
@BlackReaper said:
@ModernFable said:
Are you trying to use it on a Gen? Because that doesn’t work anymore.its still work on gens, just they dont get the 25% speed, keeping the 9%
are you sure? it isn't supposed to work on generators.
i watch the stream of the devs and they talk about it, and it should work on gens, the description dont expecify that dont work on gens
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Definitely sounds bugged.BlackReaper said:@ModernFable said:
Are you trying to use it on a Gen? Because that doesn’t work anymore.its still work on gens, just they dont get the 25% speed, keeping the 9%
Post a discussion in Bug Reports. -
Are you trying to use it on a Gen? Because that doesn’t work anymore.
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As previously said it’s not clear yet, so it could be.thesuicidefox said:Are we sure that it's actually changed and not just a text bug in the description? That's a thing you know. Someone should test it to see if it's actually faster.
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Blood Points.ForeheadSurviors said:
So whats the point of using itAlwaysInAGoodShape said:I think the reason is:
When you work alone you work at a 100% speed.
When you work together you work at a 90% speed.
With Prove Thyself you get +10% over that 90%
Thus you work at 99% the speed, meaning less than 100, as indicated in red.(multiplication factors in the code: X * 0.9 * 1.1 = 0.99X)
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Yup.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:I think the reason is:
When you work alone you work at a 100% speed.
When you work together you work at a 90% speed.
With Prove Thyself you get +10% over that 90%
Thus you work at 99% the speed, meaning less than 100, as indicated in red.(multiplication factors in the code: X * 0.9 * 1.1 = 0.99X)
They made a change where co-op actions appear as red to indicate the efficiency debuff while working with another person(s). -
Probably and agreed.twistedmonkey said:As said could be a typo but it has been done before with an apology saying it missed the patch notes.
Not a huge buff but it's significant enough to an already useful perk it should be stated if its real. -
Not mad because of 5%.Poweas said:Of course your mad because of 5%. Grow a pair and calm down dude. It's not the end of the world.
I’m bothered by the fact they potentially buffed one of the best perks in the game, as opposed to buffing one of the dozens of borderline useless perks still in the game. -
That’s true.megdonalds said:Could also be just a typo and the internal value is still 20%. Had that already with other perks.
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It’s all about time, time is very valuable.ad19970 said:@ModernFable said:
ad19970 said:Lol why wouldn't they put that in the patch notes. To afraid of the reactions? On the other hand that buff is totally fine, barely noticeable.
It makes the First Aid Kit (Yellow) heal up to two times now, so that’s important.
And then it only gets more impactful with the better Med Kits.
Sure but I mean that doesn't seem to big if you consider that you are still able to heal yourself after the healing kit is gone.
I’m mostly bothered that they stealth buffed one of the best perks in the game.
If it was something like Wake Up or Left Behind, I would have been pleasantly surprised, but instead we got this. -
It makes the First Aid Kit (Yellow) heal up to two times now, so that’s important.ad19970 said:Lol why wouldn't they put that in the patch notes. To afraid of the reactions? On the other hand that buff is totally fine, barely noticeable.
And then it only gets more impactful with the better Med Kits. -
As far as I can tell, it sounds like you were fighting two Killers.
So do you feel bad when you throw down a pallet against a Killer? -
Pair is also word that means 2.TAG said:
I generally take "couple of" to mean "few". For "two," I'd lean more towards using "a pair".ModernFable said:
Perhaps I’m mistaken in assuming that most people view “couple” as 2.Peanits said:
To quote it directly, "We will share more details about the upcoming Moonrise event in the next couple of weeks."ModernFable said:@not_Queen post said we’d receive info within the next 2 weeks.
Today is the last day of the “2 week period”, so we’ll either hear about it today or it’s probably gonna be delayed.
So not strictly two. But seeing as how the event itself is starting at the end of the month, and that it would be silly to reveal details after the event starts, you can expect news on it soon.
Either way, I’m more interested in whether we’ll get 2.5.0 today rather than some event. I don’t believe we’ve heard anything in regards to dates on that.
However I’ve never heard “in a pair of weeks” before.
I’ve heard in a “a couple of weeks”, “a few weeks”, and “several weeks.” -
Perhaps I’m mistaken in assuming that most people view “couple” as 2.Peanits said:
To quote it directly, "We will share more details about the upcoming Moonrise event in the next couple of weeks."ModernFable said:@not_Queen post said we’d receive info within the next 2 weeks.
Today is the last day of the “2 week period”, so we’ll either hear about it today or it’s probably gonna be delayed.
So not strictly two. But seeing as how the event itself is starting at the end of the month, and that it would be silly to reveal details after the event starts, you can expect news on it soon.
Either way, I’m more interested in whether we’ll get 2.5.0 today rather than some event. I don’t believe we’ve heard anything in regards to dates on that.