Lochnload_exe
Lochnload_exe
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@Vyne456 said:
If you were thinking of changing the game and then what would it be to change it and make it better again?
You can comment like what chapters, bugs, and other things like nerfs or buffs and even reworks you want to be. I won't judge of what your gonna say and I wanna see how you would change the whole situation with the game.
I'd add a couple of the last basekit additions to both sides that have been needed forever, and then promote a more "get good" mindset in this game. I think people come into this game thinking it is a horror or stealth game and then get mad when they find out it is not that. The game has been out for almost 6 years. People have had time to build the meta and know what is strong. It is a pvp game and it seriously annoys me when people just dont treat it as such and base their complaints around that lol.
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@53nation said:
I was thinking of bringing No Way Out/Bloodwarden/NOED and mostly ignoring gens. Will this be fun? I don't know what the point of this game is anymore.
I usually have fun because I decided to get better at the game and I've played this game long enough to see how bad it actually can be. This is a PVP game, you aren't gonna win every match and the opposite side isn't gonna let you just win lol. The game has also been out for a long time, people aren't always going to be potatoes. The meta is defined, people know what is the strongest thing to use on each side is, and there aren't many people not using the best stuff. If you as a killer (or survivor) use bad or meme builds or play badly, don't act all woe is me about it. If you aren't gonna try to win, then dont act surprised when the enemy team trying their hardest to win - win.
This just applies to almost every pvp game. If you aren't having fun, take a break. It is ok, no one is forcing you to play a game you aren't having fun in. Please stop acting like you are tortured and forced to play the game against your will lol.
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@Phasmamain said:
I want a killer who focuses on Information and slowing the game down like old Freddy
This as well, freddy being added is what got me into the game so long ago, and I loved his kit. I have been dying for another aura reading info and slowdown killer to be added. Pinhead was close-ish but still lacks that info and control.
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@freak_115 said:
When is the game finally going to remove SWF?
1. it only encourages more ppl to play survivor and harras the killer
2. there isn't supposed to be communications in a game wich is a 1 (killer) v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 (survivors individually), If survivors don't go for unhooks, they lose, so that way they're forced to teamplay but not OP teamplay with coms and stuff...
SWF should have never been a thing ESPECIALLY NOT if the game developpers keep deciding to nerf killer and buff survivor, Killers really need a change or we will have to tunnel & facecamp forever in order to get 1. pip-up while a survivor needs to do jack ######### and still gets 1 even 2 pip-ups. It's disgusting SWF needs to be removed for the health of the game
dog if you are literally wasting so much time as killer that survivors can do whatever they want and still beat you, you need to get good.
Literally skill issue
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@Mandy said:
The killswitch is there for something that's absolutely game breaking and can crash the game or be severely exploited where the game cannot end for example. Neither of those apply here, survivors can be slugged etc.
Whilst I appreciate RPD can be frustrating right now, it is something that has been brought up to the team.
The game could still end even with totems that couldn't be cleansed. The game could still progress. It was not insanely game breaking
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@fulltonon said:
Increase gen speed to 120seconds, make all gens only possible to do with at most 2 players, remove camping and tunneling entirely.
So make the game exponentially tilted in killer favor, and how would you possiby get rid of camping and tunneling?
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@Xendritch said:
This thread is making me realize the community has no idea to fix the the things they complain about on a daily basis and should not be anywhere near a balance team lol.
I am reading through the ideas as I see this, and indeed lmao I do not have the energy to even respond to some of these.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783497#Comment_2783497
Like I’ve already addressed, donating to a charity with zero direct legal power or say over legislation is not even remotely comparable to donating AND voting for politicians who DO have that legal power AND actively use it to push for anti-LGBT legislation. Trevor Project can’t put forth an anti-discrimination law. Anti-LGBT politicians can and do push for legislation that will strip human rights.
I never understand why this is a hard concept for people to grasp.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
These are a tad old so take them with a grain of salt
SoloQ Changes
-Added a Ping System that allows communication during a Trial. The Ping System allows Survivors to tell their teammates they are working on a Generator, searching for (Insert Secondary Objective here), cleansing a Totem, being chased or going for a save.
-Repairing a Generator and pinging it will show the Generator's Aura with no range limit for as long as you remain on it (this will work the same with cleansing/blessing Totems).
-Pinging while in chase will show your Aura to your team for 15 seconds (same with going for saves or searching for Secondary Objectives).
These changes I feel would reduce the massive imbalance between SWF and SoloQ. Now, if Survivors would to get such a buff, Killers should get a few changes aswell.
Killer Changes
With this new efficiency within the Survivors, Killers should get some inbuilt slowdown.
Option 1
-Hex: Ruin will now be base kit with a slight nerf reducing the regression from 200% to 150% (Ruin would get a change to it's effect but I don't know what it should change to).
Option 2
-Corrupt Intervention would become base kit with a nerf to its duration taking it down from 120 seconds to 95 seconds (like Ruin above, Corrupt would get a rework).
Option 3
-Survivors would get new Secondary Objectives. Each Map/Realm will have their own reskins of said Secondary Objective.
-Every Generators/(Insert reskin here) will give Survivors 2 Gate Parts (1 per Survivor if there are 2, and if there are 3 or more, the Gate Parts will be randomly given to 2 of them) and will go into the Survivor Inventory(Gate Parts will go in an in-Trial inventory and won't take up Item slots, nor will the be able to be brought into the next Trial). If a Survivor dies, the Hook they died on will be shown in a white Aura, indicating that there are Gate Parts to be collected. If the Aura is missing, then the Gate Parts have already been collected or the Survivor never had any to begin with.
-After all Generators/(Insert reskin here) are finished, Survivors will have to come together to craft Gate Switches using the Gate Parts they have collected. 1 Gate Switch would require 5 Gate Parts to be crafted.
Re-Skins
-Autohaven Wreckers Maps will now have Car Engines instead of Generators. To fuel these Car Engines, Survivors will have to explore the map to find Gas Cans. Using a Gas Can will allow Survivors to work on 50% of a Car Engine, making it so it requires 2 Gas Cans to finish a Car Engine.
-MacMillan Maps will retain the basic Generators, requiring Gears to be found with the exception of Suffocation Pit.
-Suffocation Pit's Generators will now become Holes that require Shovels to be dug up.
-Coldwind Farm Maps will have Pig Pens as their Generators and will require Pig Food as their Gears. Generators inside Main Buildings/Shack will have TV's as their Generators and will require TV Remotes as their Gears. Bringing Pig Food to a TV will turn it into a TV Remote and vice versa.
Camping and tunneling could get a nerf but I have no idea how to nerf them.
Giving the survivors an entirely new non optional secondary objective means essentially every killer that is slightly good would need a nerf of some kind. Pig having passive slowdown? Insanely punishing and oppressive. Not even MENTIONING pinhead. All killers that are either good, or just bring good stuff essentially have an even easier time than they already do because they got passive slowdown for free. Option 2 would be the best choice really.
In terms of the killer base kit perks, corrupt would sound fine (doesn't really need reworked either, just make the passive time 90 seconds and the perk increases that time to 120) but ruin as a whole with just a slight reduction in speed would mean LOADS of perks need to be reworked. I think a better concept would to just make kicking a gen give the gen ruin level regression (200%). Ruin now doesn't need reworked either since it still gives the benefit of not needing to kick.
For the SoloQ changes as well, that would ALSO require loads of perks to be reworked. The new icon symbols they are working on look fine enough personally.
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@Nathan13 said:
Do bones
Finally a good idea!
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783368#Comment_2783368
The issue is more that sudden bright flashes and strobing are really rough on photosensitive players. Especially in a game this dark.
That is a separate problem from calling something survivor sided lmao
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@playhard said:
Damn this add on explaining more that BHVR really only supporting survivor , crackers is a way insulting killer gameplay. of course when play killer you will get easily bullied when pick up the death survivor..
Im suprised blinding things still bother people this bad lmao they are easily the most counterable items in the game
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I'd love a fallout killer, like a deathclaw or mirelurk king, some new monster
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2776739#Comment_2776739
The others aren’t on demand because they’d be disgustingly overpowered if they were lmao.
imagine taking a hit endgame and instantly clicking on your Adrenaline to heal instantly
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2775656#Comment_2775656
Are you SURE bout that?
What do you mean? I'm saying I can always find mistakes I make, whether I lose or win I always make mistakes
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@GannTM said:
Furin
A warm summer breeze chimes the little bell hanging from the balcony ceiling.
- Causes all Survivors to hear the Phase-Walk Sound cue.
I tried this out one game and it can actually be a solid combo. It's pretty much gen pressure you can get across the map by just phasing and if the survivors aren't ballsy enough, they'll let go of the gen and it will block the gen while DMS is active. It's pretty fun when it works and I'd recommend it next time you play Spirit. I would suggest you put on Discordance or BBQ and Chili so you can have a better idea of where survivors are which could lead to potential gen grabs if the survivors are very ballsy.
If you do try it out, let me know how it went. Hope your games as Spirit go well!
I tried it, and boy is it strong lol. Even against good survivors, it almost consistently causes them to stutter on a gen and activate Dead Mans
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@ChiSoxFan11 said:
hu·bris
/ˈ(h)yo͞obrəs/
noun
- excessive pride or self-confidence.
So I went up against a fellow Twitch streamer in a match last night -- I was playing Demo and running my standard build for him these days (Corrupt, Pain Resonance, and STBFL -- with the new Dead Man's Switch added in over BBQ to see how it worked on him), We ended up on Gas Heaven, not a great map for killer but certainly not the worst.
The match ended up a slaughter -- I two-hooked everyone before killing the Twitch person first (he was simply the unlucky one I found at that point). The team got one gen done (right at the end of the match), and I gave a Nea who begged for her life the hatch. I was literally ending chases immediately (the Twitch guy couldn't go more than 15-20 seconds in chase without going down).
I'm a Rank 1 killer -- but I know Rank doesn't mean everything, and I know that doesn't mean I'm actually THAT good, and I'm well aware of it, I know I need a LOT of work on a lot of my killers, on my gameplay in general, and I have no illusions about my skill -- or lack of it -- at times. When I lose, I try not to blame the usual suspects -- SWF, busted maps, RNG, busted perks, etc. -- even if they do play a part. I try to tell myself I need to get better, and I look for areas where I need to improve. Overall, I thought I played a really solid match, but the survivors weren't the best I'd normally go against (SBMM prioritizing queue times would be my guess for the lobby I got).
Normally, I'll drop in to say GG to the Twitch streamer if they're live, drop them a follow (and hope for one in return), and wish them good luck. When I went to their stream, they seemed a bit -- salty -- for lack of a better term, so in this case, I did none of the above. Instead, I decided I'd watch their VOD later on, after I was done with my own gameplay.
The Twitch guy was a Rank 1 survivor (again, for whatever that's actually worth). When I watched his VOD, over the course of the match, he did all of the following:
-- Went down almost instantly in chase, each time essentially running in a straight line and not looking behind him.
-- Had no idea what the perk Dead Man's Switch even was, or that it had been buffed recently.
-- Had no idea (from what he said when he tried to bodyblock a hook) that I was running STBFL, a VERY common perk on Demo (and that I had a lot of stacks) or possibly how that perk worked either (indicating, possibly, that he's someone who never plays killer).
-- Wasted time cleansing portals and setting up a COH boon in the same place multiple times, alerting me to where he was -- and then made the comment "Are you streamsniping?' (or something to that affect)
-- Claimed that the new Wiggle mechanic puts survivors at a disadvantage, and that the wiggle time is slower (even when hitting the skillchecks).
-- Blamed his teammates numerous times (he was playing as a solo) for how the match was going, even though he was going down as quickly (or quicker) as they were. He blamed his teammates for leading me back to him at one point where he was self-caring with a Boon, even though they had no way of knowing where he was since they weren't on comms and no one was running Bond or a similar perk (and it didn't matter, since I never left a chase to go after him when I found people grouped up).
-- Blamed his teammates skill level (or his perception of it) on MMR being messed up since he "hadn't played in a few days", which, for all of the problems with SBMM, also illustrated to me that he doesn't understand how the system is even supposed to work, if it were functioning correctly. (And considering how poorly he seemingly played, the argument could have been made that he DID have teammates that were at his skill level).
-- Claimed as killer, that I was essentially terrible (despite my having everyone pretty much dead at 5 gens). He exited the match and didn't spectate it to the end. I assume he would have been furious that I gave the Nea the hatch. I wasn't sure, but I think the Nea had followed him on his stream, said hello in his chat, and wished him "good luck" beforehand, only for him to rail on her for her poor gameplay throughout the match (when she played no worse than he did).
All in all, I was glad I hadn't given the guy a follow --and it was a little funny listening to him get increasingly agitated as the match went south for his team, but it made me wonder: Did he really actually believe half of what he was saying? Did he really think HE was that good, that I was that terrible, or that his teammates or perks he didn't even understand or know were the reason he was getting trounced? His lack of basic game knowledge for a "Rank 1" player -- not knowing perks, or the new Wiggle mechanics, or how SBMM is "supposed" to work (or how it actually is functioning) -- all suggest that, much like I need to improve my gameplay, there's a lot of room to improve on their end. But will they actually figure that out, or will they only blame everything and anything else for whenever they lose (when I started viewing the match they went against me, they were railing on their teammates in their previous match they'd lost in for running "newb" perks, which I found ironic based on everything above).
TL:DR -- It's really easy, if you suffer from hubris, to blame other things for when a match goes poorly for you, whether it's as survivor or killer. It's a lot harder, though, to realize that it might actually be you that's the reason why things went the way they did -- and if you can't recognize those times, then you're probably never going to get better.
This is such a big problem in DBD. I try to always stay conscious of my mistakes and know where to improve next time. There is always room to improve and there is almost never a time I lose and can't point out mistakes of my own.
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@BenSanderson55 said:
You can disable maps and perks when they're broken, what about killers?
This isn't me saying pinhead is op or strong. He's broken.
1) Being attacked by chains when doing the box isn't fixed. "So then do it before chainhunt timer completes" brings me to point #2
2) Soloq can't coordinate to do the box efficiently.
3) I can't force console players to remap their buttons (vault, remove chains) or perhaps they don't even know.
I'm finally saying something because I've been getting a lot more pinheads lately. I assume his new voicelines, but I surmise mainly most killers know of the points I mentioned above and use him for those reasons, especially during the event. Because why use a bad killer (which i've heard numerous times since he was nerfed) otherwise.
And finally just my opinion, he isn't fun to play against, I prefer a nurse or blight to pinhead. Wonder why he gets so many DCs and deadhooks if he's so bad? lol
None of these are reasons to disable the killer and his chains attacking while solving IS fixed. It runs on sets of 3, and in between there is a pause. Before, even if you started solving in the pause, the next wave would spawn. Now they do not.
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@GannTM said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UZ91NI8M3VPS/screenshot-28150-29.png
Anyone that plays Spirit earns my respect.
I've been playing spirit way more, and now that I feel less guilty playing her I am having a blast.
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@Fuzzels said:
It's more than just RPD to be fair. There's a few videos going around of various spots becoming unhookable location due to the perk.
Personally I don't care all that much and will just play around it, but I absolutely do agree with it needing to be addressed. If BHVR doesn't want to Killswitch any maps for now they could just kill the perk, adjust the 25% to something like 10 and call it good for now. Changing the perks percentage would be an infinitely easier change until the maps issue can be addressed
I also think if boil over does need changed, just make the drop distance way more consistent. It does seem ridiculous that you could go down a slight inclination and instantly lose 25%, make it a set distance that needs to activate it.
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@Erd69 said:
Why do people complain about going against a pinhead or a nemesis? But d
It comes from a fact of Nurse being a high level killer and taking skill. She is OP, but to reach that level of op is extremely hard and it leads to most nurses just being very good at most, meaning chases are extremely interactive for both sides. It isn't just hold w drop pallet, you have to show your skill. As a pinhead main (and nemesis enjoyer to a degree) it makes quite sense why they aren't enjoyed. Gameplay is fairly boring and uninteractive, and each chase devolves to the same thing. Predrop pallet, run away. They aren't OP, but in chase their entire power is being heavily oppressive. It is why MOST new killers are complained about, they are just very similar in power and gameplay and it gets stale. Nemesis and Pinhead are both sweet, I've been a fan of both series for a while and I'm super happy they got in, but Nemesis could've been so much cooler (but I do think pinhead is great).
This is also the second post I've seen you compare Doctor to Nurse lmaoo why? In terms of power, he is like low B tier or even high C tier lmaoo what is this? Not to mention the fact that doctor IS hated, like actively as one of the more hated killers.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773201#Comment_2773201
Whataboutism.
Also...for example?
Most good teams usually try to play around NOED, or most hex perks or perks like pop or tinkerer are perks that you actively have to be aware or cautious of and have to play around. It isn't whataboutism, it is stating facts. The problem of Boil Over is the fact that some maps are #########, it isn't even a problem of boil over. Some maps were already abusable before hand, now it is the same but they have another perk. Not saying this new Boil Over is fair or well designed, but people are definitely getting worked up over something that wasn't even the fault of the perk, it is something that has been busted for a while.
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@Erd69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773231#Comment_2773231
If you are legion and bring the most broken shid, the survivor will win. If you bring most broken shid on nurse, blight or maybe doc then you'll most likely have a chance lmao.
That is quite literally what I said. You aren't proving your point, you just proved mine. The game isn't survivor sided, it is sided to the side that is better skilled and brings better stuff. In the end, it is a pvp game and you are facing other people that also want to win. If you aren't willing to improve or try harder to win, don't know why you think the game is survivor sided because they were better and wanted to win more. When you play a bad killer against a team all using their best stuff, that doesn't mean killer is weak and that the game is survivor sided, it means the killer you are playing isn't the best or you are just bad.
You can post gameplay anytime if you are convinced you are the best player and never make mistakes. Maybe even post evidence of your actual hours, definitely seems like you have a bad grasp if you think Doc is to the same level as nurse or blight.
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Well yeah lmao your complaints are quite literally either map problems or skill issue, and that is just the objective fact. If you are having such an unfun time with the game, then take a break. This applies to literally anything in life. Killer is still super fun to me, and I've been playing for close to 5 years too now. Killer is still fun for a lot of people. The fact of the matter is, the game has been around for almost 6 years and people tend to get better and better as time goes on. You can't easily 4k as killer as you used to, you have to earn them more. This goes for survivor as well. In terms of strong or broken stuff in the game, survivor has way more balanced and fair things they ever did. Killer also has stronger things they can be using.
The reason most content creators say the game isnt survivor sided is because it is a fact. The game favors the side that brings the stronger kit. If you are playing killer and decide to run legion with a super goofy build, then the team with all 4 meta perks will most likely win. If you as killer play a good or decent killer with a strong build as well, then you will also do well. It comes down to skill and experience. Objectively the game is fairly balanced, but that has nothing to do fun. Fun is something to person experiences and is different for all, and if you are mad or having fun that in a PVP game the other side can win, than take a break. If you don't want to take a break, that is fine, clearly you are extremely mad at the response and help people are providing, but don't keep shouting insults and petty complaints because you lost some matches
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@El_Gingero said:
The new Boil Over is fun for survivors and I’m going to use a lot, but as a killer I’m sort of miffed because I already have to play around DH, DS, BT, and Unbreakable, minimum, even if the survivors aren’t running any of them.
Now Boil Over is added to that list. That’s 5 perks that change how I play the game even when nobody has them equipped!
Will killer ever get tools like this?
Also I’ve noticed that although I’m a killer, I’m only excited to try out new survivor goodies with recent patches. Anyone else in the same boat?
why do people act like killers also don't have perks like this? Also you won't have to play around boil over even if they don't have it, because it tells you they have it instantly.
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@Erd69 said:
Have y'all seen otzdarvas video proving that the game isn't actually survivor sided or "as" survivor sided? It's bullshit. Scott jund, otz and other content creators claim that you don't go against a swf every game, which I do. I can bring the most broken build but my perks will get taken away or I'll be destroyed by dead hard to a God pallet. How's the game not survivor sided? I had a game, and not just A game but many games like this. This match was basically me downing them fast at the beginning of the match. They were still at 5 gens and it looked like it was unwinnable for them. I would down them fast but it didn't matter because they would never die so I call that the infinite hook effect. There was nothing I could do because they had boil over and would sabo. Even though they were getting clapped, they still did all 5 gens, isn't that crazy? I mean do y'all blame me for DCing? Nothing I could do. It's very common for this to happen. Fast generators even though I should be winning? Every single game was just sweaty and frustrating. Dead hard every time I would mind game them at a jungle gym. I don't understand how Scott or otz have survivor sided opinions when killers are literally quitting the game and not having fun. They make fun of the devs for not knowing much about the game (atleast Scott because otz doesn't) but they also just claim that matches are still winnable and that you should look at your mistakes? A game I have been playing for 4 years now? Jeez.
Local bad player writes an essay that they are bad, blames the game and not their own skill. This and more at 6.
If survivors are attempting unhookable builds (using abusable stuff like RPD), then they most certainly are not doing gens and just slugging solves it. There is almost ALWAYS something you can do. Just because you have a lot of time doesn't mean you are a master at the game and can never make mistakes. Mistakes are always common place, and if your mindset is to blame the game for being survivor sided, than I'm sorry to hear it, hope you get better.
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@Gigante said:
Simple and straightforward question.
After the arrival of SBMM, no match is more fun. The gens fly, all the survivors use meta perks and think they're in the DBD world cup. We are no longer able to use fun builds because it is extremely frustrating and they heal in a matter of seconds thanks to the boom.
I'm rank 1 Survivor and Bronze Killer and I can't enjoy absolutely any Killer match because every match is the same, only tryhard survivors destroying generators and abusing every loop they can.
I've been playing since 2018 and until the day before SBMM the matches were fun, lasted a long time and there were good and average survivors in the matches.
- Fun is subjective
- Survivors have always used meta perks, nothing changed.
- Ranks don't matter, not how it works.
- The game is only different because you face better survivors, if you lose enough you should face babies which is apparently your current skill level, then you can start having fun. If you aren't a baby, this is a pvp game that is competitive and has been around for almost 6 years. Every game eventually develops what the best way to win is, SBMM won't suddenly make survivors stop using the obvious best perks, just like how it won't stop killers from using the best perks. If you want to win, use your best tools. If you are mad you can't 4k against babies using bad or fun perks anymore, dont know what to tell you lol maybe take a break
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
First things first, i have to say that the little nerf to COH is a step in the right direction.
But tbf i think this nerf will have little impact because it's only a change of max 2.xx when healing alone.
Sorry not that good at math 😂
Why not do an actual change to it that might be a bit more balanced and maybe something more people would like.
How about that there can only be 1 boon of the same kind can be active at the time?
So for example all 4 survivors can bring COH but only 1 can be active at the time.
You can decide to bless a totem but if someone else has already done it the perk icon will stay dark, so when a killer snuff the boon the next will be active.
Another change to it would be take away the sound the boon is making and make it sound like a hex totem, also making the AOE a little smaller.
Yes i agree that would make it harder for the killer but there's 1 more change i would do.
Whenever a killer snuff a boon.......... It will break.
So no more infinite blessings because booms will be a sort of hex totems for survivors.
So a little summary.
• 1 boon of the same kind active at the time
• making the sound of a boon like a hex totem.
• making the AOE a little smaller.
• making the totem break when the killer snuff it.
Let me hear your thoughts if you like or don't like it and why.
Let me know what the problems could be with this change.
The change is in the right direction but done in such an awful way. The problem with CoH isn't anything to do with boons, the amount of boons up, the AoE, none of that. The problem is the insane speed at which you can heal. It is incredibly easy to get close to 6 second heals almost every heal while using CoH. They need to either have a healing cap it can't go past, stop it from stacking with medkits, or just rework it entirely. Having infinite healing IS busted, but if it stuck to something like 16 or 24 second heals every time no exceptions, it would be so so much better.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2770117#Comment_2770117
Removing the Myers House infinite really helped.
I'm cautiously optimistic about Haddonfield getting a design rework, but I'll be :| if it just turns out to be a "everything's the same but there's 10 breakable walls now, have fun" situation.
fully agreed, so sick of the "rework means add breakable walls". Just make the map a functional and fun experience lmao
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Idk if it will even make a difference lol on maps where hooks are abusable, you didn't need boil over to make them abusable. On maps where hooks arent abusable, it isn't like boil over is gonna really change that anyways. It feels like a scary change until you realize it is either not changing abusable hooks that never needed boil over to be awful, and wont affect anything else.
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@dugman said:
Oh, here it is! 🎻 😢
The Haddonfield map and the Strode Realty Key offering have been disabled.
I guess I’ll just have to manage without survivors sending me to Haddonfield for a while. 🤷♂️
unpopular opinion, but haddonfield isn't even that bad anymore. Badham or like, cowshed, feel infinitely worse to play on. Hell, even the gideon meat plant feels worse lol
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768375#Comment_2768375
Mm.
I think there's also another factor at play - due to the MMR cap and Otz being an 8000 hour monster, he can more frequently get streaky perks like Ruin, Devour and the like to shine.
I enjoy perks that minimize my downtime (Surge, Pain Resonance, Agitation) or give additional pressure to survivors (Plaything).
Personally when tiering perks or considering things for the game, you shouldn't often consider a lower player playing with it. It would be like saying Nurse is bad because Jimbob with 10 hours is bad with her. Being good at the game and being able to take use things to their full potential is where things should be rated and balanced.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2768359#Comment_2768359
Bingo.
Otz is going for potentially insane but streaky perks.
I'd probably value more consistent perks higher.
Yeah, I don't think he is wrong, even taking into consideration those are still probably the best, but personally I enjoy more consistent but slightly weaker perks. I just don't like the RNG of sometimes having matches that I slam in, and some matches where I lose all my perks.
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@Travis_Bateman said:
When he says that Noed is a S tier (5 stars) perk ? Is it really that good ?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/6D0YP4TLYVX0/screenshot-20211221-004559-youtube.jpg
It seems like he is rating them off of the potential they hold. NOED can be useless, but it can also win you the game easily. Same with Ruin, Ruin can give insane value, but could also not. I can see that pattern looking down through the list as well, the lower the perk's higher potential, the worse they are ranked.
I can agree with NOED being a top perk, a perk that can be really hard to get rid of when the killer is actually good, and gives insane value in the situation where the survivors still finish gens is a good perk. The only time NOED can really faulter is when the killer is really bad, and survivors are really good. If any of the situations are more even (both sides bad or both sides really good) than NOED has huge potential.
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@PlaysByShady said:
The recent controversy over Patrick's comments embarrasses me; it just highlights the mob-mentality of the DBD community and I absolutely empathise over why the devs refuse to comment on matters... because too many people screech in response about things they don't understand. And right now it's MMR, like everyone has suddenly become experts in how it works and are therefore qualified to comment on it.
Sadly, this is not the case, and let me explain why.
Warning: this will be slightly complicated, because that's just the nature of how these things are. But I'll do my best to simplify.
Short background: I've been a software dev for 20+ years, been involved in some mmr systems in the past (did some collab with the original MS Trueskill researchers back in the day), and generally deal with s/w that support large amounts of concurrent users.
So... let's start at the basics.
The system is known by multiple names, the two common ones being SBMM and MMR. I'm going to use 'MMR' because the term 'Skill' in SBMM is a loaded term that can be misinterpreted. It doesn't mean skill in the way you would mean in natural use.
The purpose of the MMR is to provide Match-Making... hence the MM in the name. More importantly, it's to provide MM between parties who are considered "equal", so that matches will be "balanced". You'll notice those terms are in quotes, because they don't necessarily mean what you think they mean. They need to be defined.
Before we do that, let's also point out some assumptions the system makes:
1) Both sides are attempting to achieve their overall objectives, i.e. killers are trying to kill, and survivors are trying to survive.
2) There is 1 killer and 4 survivors (to begin with)
3) A desirable match (i.e. what the MM should aim to produce) is one where all players have equal chance of achieving their (diametrically opposed) objectives... either the killer kills, or the survivors survive (on a 1v1 basis, i.e. per survivor... the killer either kills the survivor, or the survivor survives).
Now... you can argue with those assumptions if you like, but that'd be a separate discussion altogether
So, how is does the MMR system match people together?
IT REDUCES YOU TO A NUMBER!
That's literally it. To the MMR system, you are just a number! All your skilled plays, jukes, strategies, etc are distilled down to a single number which represents your "skill" or "level"!
That's the first thing to understand and get over. The system knows-not, and cares-not, about how you played, the incredible saves you pulled off, how you sacrificed yourself to save your team, how you did or didn't tunnel/camp, etc. It just cares about what your "level" is so that it can find suitable players to match you with for the next game. Anything else is just noise.
For those that want to argue whether it should be this way, I would invite you to please design a system... heck, even an Excel spreadsheet with basic formulas, that'd take all the data you want to count and be able to not only interpret it, but also provide some objective mechanism to determine how it should affect your level or how it affects who you're matched with (in an absolute mathematical sense, not some vague description of wants!)
What is the number you'd give to a person who had a 5-gen chase and chased, such that no-one else would get that number from escaping via other means? It can't be done! When you reduce things down to a number, it loses all of this nuance!
Software isn't magic! Computers are not people. They don't understand nuance, or intention. Everything that happens to affect any calculations has to be written/coded to accommodate that!
There's a lot more to be said on this, but for the sake of brevity and sanity, I'll leave it there for now.
So, now you're just a number. Here's another important point to understand. YOUR NUMBER DOESN'T MATTER!
Think about it. If your number was 10, 100, or 1000, what difference does it make? You might be tempted to answer "well, 100 is obviously more than 10", but lets say your peers where in the range of 9-11, or 90-110, etc, it still puts you in the same spot, i.e. smack-bang in the middle.
So I'll say it again... YOUR NUMBER DOESN'T MATTER!
What does matter is where your number stands in relation to everyone else's.
If yours is 10, but the player-base only ranges from 5-15, then you're firmly in the middle. But if the player-base averages around 100, then your number (or level) is severely below average. Your number doesn't matter... where your number fits in relation to everyone else is what matters!
The MMR system produces matches by trying to fill a lobby with players who have similar numbers, i.e. they're within a specified range of each other. That range could be determined by a number of factors, and we also know it increases the longer you're in the queue (so you'll match with more players whose level are further away from yours).
Now, here's what too many people fail to understand. In order to do any match-making... any system has to have some way to rank or equate players so that it can determine what is a good match vs a bad match. How else are you going to compare players with each other without some common comparable criteria between the two? Think about it! You need some objectively measurable indicator that you can ascribe to both survivor and killer in order to compare them with each other to match-make! Otherwise you're literally comparing apples and oranges.
So now you're in a match, and the match plays out. You either survive or die, or as a killer you get kills or not. At the end of the match, THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS HOW MUCH YOUR LEVEL MOVES! Remember, the MMR system doesn't care about your amazing plays, because there's no objective number it can ascribe to it. It just needs to know whether your level should be adjusted, and if so, by how much.
Remember, you and your plays are just being reduced down to a number!
Here's where there's a lot of room for confusion, misinterpretation, and a range of opinions. There are many ways to skin a cat... and there are many ways to determine what that adjustment should be.
Maybe it should take hooks into account, or how many chases won/lost? All great ideas. And I'm sure BHVR have tried these out - we've had a number of MMR tests in the past year or so. I strongly suspect that, at the end of the day, the results they produced weren't as good as what would have been desired.
Or, more likely, they discovered something else... but before I mention it, let me point out another mechanism of the system... THEY'RE DESIGNED TO WORK OVER A RANGE OF MATCHES!
There is literally NO ranking system anywhere in the world that will accurately place any player after a match or two. That's impossible. There's simply not enough data points to determine where you fit in the ranking overall, unless you play enough matches to provide as much.
And the second point... YOUR LEVEL FLUCTUATES!
No-one is the same "skill" all the time. You're either a newb, and your skill increases. Or you've been away for a while and have adapted to the new mechanics etc, and your skill decreases. See, by the time you've played enough matches for the system to know where you rank in comparison to others, bear in mind that their rankings have changed too! Perfection is a moving target, and a good working system is one that can accurate match-make based on the data it has at that time.
You will never have any system that accurately places players exactly where their rank is for all time... the system just tries to get as close to an ideal as possible given the current data!
At the end of the day, if the system produces a match with an even 50/50 result, then it's done it's job. The 4 survivors had 50/50 change of surviving or dying... 50% survived, 50% died, that's an even match! Hence BHVR mentioned back in the day that they consider 2-kills+2-escapes an even match.
Note: as a gamer, I recognise how stupid this seems, because we know that once two survivors go down, the other two have a harder job to survive... unless the deaths are occurring in end game which probably means the killer had a stressful game. I get it. It seems completely counter-intuitive. But the maths checks out... 4 survivors, each with 50/50 chance to win/lose will mean that 2 "win" and 2 "lose". It's mathematically balanced so should be a "good" game, as far as one can predict.
So, back to mechanics of how to reduce the game to an adjustment for your level... it appears BHVR have noticed that a persons average kill/escape ratio appears to correlate with other more complicated mechanics... so rather than fiddle around with the complicated mechanics, they can just take the shortcut and go with the clearer/easier kill/escape mechanic.
And herein is the misunderstood point... Patrick said that it's an indicator of skill, and when you consider that the MMR self-calibrates over a series of matches, it appears to prove an accurate one.
So let's clarify some things bearing this in mind:
A face-camping Bubba is more skillful: No, that's not what he said, nor is what he's suggesting. Firstly, ignore the term "skill", because it's confusing... the devs and players are using the same term to mean two different things. What he's saying is that if the killer is consistently getting kills - howsoever they're getting them - then they should go against "better" survivors who'll be able to resist their strategies and provide a more even match. They're not saying "wow, great plays"... they're saying "fine, we'll match you against better players, now let's see how you do!" The "skill" is in Bubba being able to catch the survivor in the first instance (and then however the rest of how the match plays out... maybe he loses 5-gens 'cos of the camp, maybe altruism gets the team killed). Either way, the Bubba will be adjusted to go against teams better suited (in theory).
Losing a 5-gen chase is low skill: Again, no! If you lost a 5-gen chase and died (which could be for a number of reasons, maybe your team just left you to be one-hooked, etc) then one of two things happened: (i) it was a completely fluke chase against a bad killer which you won't be able to repeat, and you're fine as you are... or (ii) you are that skilled that you can do it again, and over a series of matches your level will increase because you will do it again!
Again, straw-manning the point and expecting the system to produce an accurate result on a match-by-match basis is stupid. It's not going to do that. It's not designed to do that. It cannot do that, because the data fluctuates anyway!
Perfect example is Patrick's hockey example... he mentioned that for hockey players you could rank them by how many shots they take on goal... but if they're winning games (i.e. scoring more than others), then you can already presume they're taking more shots because how else are they getting the goals? You don't need to do the complicated calculations when there's a much simpler indicator that correlates closely enough. For any sport, if you look at their league tables, you can infer the teams (consistently) at the top have the best players... because how else did they get there? You don't need to know the ins and outs of each player, etc.
But of course, the DBD community are just like "waaah... hockey is not dbd, waah!" completely missing the point of what he's saying!
There is also the factor of diminishing returns to consider... the more "fine-tuned" the system is, the more effort it takes to maintain that system, and the less useful (i.e. different) data is produced. Whilst it is technically possible to build the system around hooks, or chases, etc... it requires so much more investment in time/development, the results aren't worth it because they don't produce anything that is fundamentally different from just looking at kills/escapes. So why adopt the harder method?
So... back to the adjustment at the end of the game. Adjusting your level by kills/escapes is very simple, and a reasonable indicator of where you need to be. If you're killing everyone, you need to be moved up to match against players you struggle to kill. If you're escaping every match, you need to move up to face killers that can better catch you and do something about it. And vice-versa.
Stop thinking about the MMR system as an ego-boost, the way some strimmers say they are "max-mmr"... there's no such thing. If the system matches you with players that'll give you a "balanced" match (as per how it was mathematically defined), then the system works as intended.
One other minor interesting point to note: Patrick mentioned the adjustment to a survivor's rank is also based on the order in which they died, because they recognise that a 4v1 death is different to a 3v1 death, etc, so you "lose" less if you died later (in order) rather than earlier.
The system, as a whole, is supposed to self-calibrate. It requires you to play a number of matches, and so long as you play consistently (for the most part), it'll do it's job in matching you with players that'll give you a 50/50 chance of achieving your objective. But bear in mind other player's levels are moving too, so it'll never be perfect. And there are always ways to "cheat" the system by artificially lowering your rank over a series of games (how is the system supposed to know though?)
Again, I've glossed over a lot, and simplified things a lot, to make it easier to understand... not to make it easier for people to provide strawman rebuttals. As a community, I wish we'd try to understand things properly before passing judgement/comment... and not just wildly complaining for the sake of complaining because we don't know what we're talking about.
Thank you for writing this and it does make much more sense put in this way. I can see it differently now and I can understand why it was done this way, thank you lots.
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@Peanits said:
To confirm what others are saying, there is no hard-set rule for base movement speeds, it's decided on a per-Killer basis. Sometimes it's part of the Killer's core design (e.g. This Killer should be fast and agile), and other times we ask questions like, "Does this Killer need to be slower to offset their power?" and "What kind of effects would that movement speed have on their power?"
But like, why do some killers have lower movement speed when their power is extremely similar or even just worse than others that are faster?
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@dugman said:
On a tangent I’d love to see one killer who has 120% base movement speed with some other minor ability. Clown is almost like that with the yellow gas, but not quite.
The way they are doing it now, it just seems like they are doing it based off what feels right for that killer, I would love if they got more creative and made some new killers have more unique speeds like nurse.
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@Laluzi said:
Historically, short-ranged killers (or anti-loops) are 115s, long-ranged killers are 110. Artist is an oddity in this regard and I don't really understand her placement - it feels like either she should be a 110 or Trickster should be a 115 (as they can both tag at long range but can't damage at that range unless survivors misplay badly.)
Spirit's a 110 for the same reason Hag is - she has a power that lets her traverse very quickly, and she's meant to rely on that in chase more than just running around. I think Nurse used to be a 110 a long time ago on the same design philosophy, but that was nerfed because she was (understandably) way too strong.
Yeah this is about my same viewpoint as well, it just still feels odd with how they released Artist, but other killers that are worst at ranged are still 110.
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@KateDunson said:
Since sbmm came out did u change approach to the game? Do you like it more? Or don't play at all?
My personal experience is that i don't take the game seriously anymore, it effects my mental sanity especially when it comes to sweaty games over and over again. I was used to play a lot before it came out, around 90h in the last 2 weeks according to steam, now i have 10h the last 2 weeks which is a huge difference and says a lot of it.
How's your experience with it? Share your thoughts.
Another thing I see is that they are slowly losing players and hopefully something will be done about it.
@KateDunson said:
Since sbmm came out did u change approach to the game? Do you like it more? Or don't play at all?
My personal experience is that i don't take the game seriously anymore, it effects my mental sanity especially when it comes to sweaty games over and over again. I was used to play a lot before it came out, around 90h in the last 2 weeks according to steam, now i have 10h the last 2 weeks which is a huge difference and says a lot of it.
How's your experience with it? Share your thoughts.
Another thing I see is that they are slowly losing players and hopefully something will be done about it.
Personally, no. I now know it is THERE but it doesn't effect how I play, the MMR barely works from the looks of it anyways. If I want to win or get 4k, I try to play hard and win. If I want to play casually and just go for points and hooks, I do. Honestly, if they never told us that it was added, I wouldn't have noticed a difference.
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@Gwinty said:
I always say this but never posted it as a suggestion and thus here it is:
In order to balance Boons make their radii different.
Boon totems are a fun mechanic for me. I enjoy them as a survivor and I like the concept as a Killer. Most times people complain about "Boons" they only complain about one (Cycle of Healing) and are indifferent to the other two.
A point most people overlook is that the power of a Boon massively depends on its radius. This can make or break those perks and is a very smooth way to buff or nerf certain Boons into proportion. For this let me make a quick example: "Boon: Shadowstep".
If "Boon: Shadowstep" had only 16 meters of radius it would serve little to no purpose. Killers could see the survivors in the radius and follow them with ease while also taking notice of the Boon very quick to snuff it. With 40 meters "Boon: Shadowstep" would be grossly overpowered as it would cover a huge area of the map and leave the Killer little to no indicator to find the Boon.
This is why I suggest the following values for out existing Boons:
- Boon: Cycle of Healing: Reduce the radius to 16 meters.
- Boon: Shadowstep: Keep the radius it is fine.
- Boon: Exponential: Buff the radius to 30 meters, it is too weak.
Future Boons should consider this too with their power. Let me give two examples:
- Boon: Know your friends: Lets you see the aura of all other survivors in the radius. Radius: 32 meters.
- Boon: Know your enemy: Lets you see the aura of the Killer within 20 meters.
As you see, one would be grossly overpowered if it had the radius of the other. However this could also serve as a screw for the developers to tune their perks. When one underperformes the radius could be buffed before the effect gets any change at all, when one overperformes the radius can be nerfed.
This isn't that bad of an idea, but it does feel like it is overcomplicating the whole boon situation. Personally, the reason the other boons seem bad and CoH is OP is because CoH is grossly overtuned. Healing has always been busted, now even more so. Nerf CoH or just healing in general, and then leave the other boons as is. They are all definitely strong, but CoH is WAY to strong compared to the strength of the others.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2758589#Comment_2758589
That's a lot of patting yourself on the back to claim that the most consistently inconsistent Killer is strong.
He's got way too much RNG basekit to be that high. How the chains spawn, how the box spawns (yes, it's somewhat predictable, but it's still got a wide range), exactly when the chain hunt chains fire (and where people are if they fail to dodge), and the infinite pile of "relies on bad play from Survivors to have most of his power for long".
Plus being the only Killer who gets a huge buff from the opponents playing on console as they start slow-vaulting things. <_>
It isn't patting myself on the back, it is the fact that a lot of his kit is seen as RNG when in reality it follows a pretty set logic of rules. The best way to play pinhead is infinite chain hunt, where you keep interrupting the box or finding it fast. You can get insane early game value if you play him right. I will admit, the support chains that spawn from chains being broken are inconsistent, but only in the fact they are so slow in spawning and firing. Also, this is coming from a console player, being worse against pinhead is literally the players fault. It takes one second to just, rebind buttons and instantly he doesn't bully console anymore.
He is actually a super fair and strong killer in my eyes, his strength isn't as good when the pinhead player is bad, but when the player is good he is much better. When the killer misplays, survivors can punish it, but if survivors make a mistake, he can punish it hard. It is pretty interactive gameplay.
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@cutiekiller said:
Personally I have to sweat like crazy to hopefully get 1 single kill and I really think he's closest to worst killer in my book (3.4K hours so you don't think I am a newbie)
Why do you consider pinhead a good killer?
Edit: the reason I ask is because few days ago i've seen a post regarding pinhead asking what tier do you think he is and many said A or B.
As a solid pinhead main and player since he came out, he is easily High B, low to mid A tier even as basekit. He is a very complex and hard to master killer. You have to combine deep game knowledge, and deep knowledge of the killer themself to play them to top level. This is a big reason most dont like pinhead, he is a hard killer and when you aren't taking effect of the whole kit, he can be punished hard. This is a big problem for a lot of the community imo, if something takes more skill, it draws less players. It is why the spirit nerfs made so many people mad, you can't stand still and win anymore? Game bad.
Master Pinhead means you are a 115 killer with a good antiloop tool, but built in, passive map pressure and slowdown. If Pinhead ignores trying to get the box, you are only using half your kit and he lacks. If you only use the box, he is a m1 killer with some slowdown. His kit in combination goes so good together and makes both halves much stronger when you master them both. Learning box spawns and spawn logic, learning how to aim the chain for longshot interrupts, learning how to do proper chain placements on loops and tiles, etc. He is a high level killer that takes a lot of practice and time, I still learn new stuff for pinhead and I've been playing and improving my guide on him since his release.
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@BrotherLove said:
This is me they are talking about
Literally put all demo mains under bad light, and they were one of the last good players
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@Dionysus42 said:
This won't be the case until they go up every match by a constant amount. As it is a poor player can keep not getting pips or losing them and never go up. For some reason the devs keep saying this (see recent Mandy posts). It is objectively not true.
It is though
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I love you so much Sluzzy
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@woundcowboy said:
We hear over and over again how imbalanced DBD is. Most people would agree that the game is indeed imbalanced and in need of adjustments. As we have seen with some of the recent "experiments", it is possible for killer to do well at high MMR. The problem is, and what killers are not saying, is that the tactics required to do well at high MMR are not fun. Against good survivors, the killer essentially has no choice but to tunnel and camp to make the game winnable. Camping the hook requires no gameplay from killer, and limits the options survivors have to save; the hooked survivor is obviously miserable as well.
Data: The devs and community continually cite statistics to prove how balanced the game is. The obvious major flaw with this approach is that data cannot tell you everything. A tactic/sweat squad can be beatable, while at the same time not being fun to fight. This isn't surprising, since many aspects of society are increasingly relying on statistics (the NFL, fighting game balance, analytics, etc...). In my opinion, everyone on here, needs to be arguing about high level play is unfun, not that it is imbalanced. Hopefully this will inspire the devs to change things up.
That is basically what the experiments came too. Otz said even at the end of the video about his experiment, and in his twitter, that the complaints shouldn't be about the game being unbalanced, it should be that the game is unfun at high levels.
Even then, that is super subjective and could be said about any high-level game. I think most gameplay at high levels of any game start to get boring. I think the difference in dbd comes down to the fact that MMR punishes you for not getting kills, but technically the ingame grades and rewards do not.
If you want to go for kills that makes perfect sense, seeing as that is how MMR works but also that is literally the objective of killer. If you just go for hooks though, that is honestly the way the game seems like it should be focused, since going for hooks means you get way more BP, and everyone has more fun most of the time.
I think the game needs to just base matches on lasting a little longer. The matches have went from maybe lasting like 15 or 20 minutes to possibly lasting like 8 minutes and less.
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@Dionysus42 said:
Remove Boons and Dead Hard General Discussion
In the considered opinion of various people such as Charlemagne and Ivan the Terrible, boons and Dead Hard should be removed from the hit videogame Dead By Daylight effective immediately. Please discuss.
I am once again saying that you don't have a problem with boons, you have a problem with CoH and healing in general. I totally understand Dead Hard, but why do people say boons are a problem, when only CoH is busted? They are fine additions to the game and meta, but healing is super busted and has been for a long time.
If you had a problem with undying for example, like old undying, you wouldn't say "nerf all hexes because undying is too strong". That would be stupid now would it? You nerf the problem perk. Stop asking for boon nerfs and ask for CoH nerfs.
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@whampyri said:
Is it just me or if a survivor group is halfway competent do they just have no fear of the killer. Best abilities are hexes which they dont hide well so are gone almost before first gen pops. There is literally no reason for the survivors to feel rushed or that they may not win.
That is usually how pvp games work, dbd stops being a horror game after like 5 matches. If you aren't gonna play like a threat, why are enemies gonna act like you are? If you actually get good at the game and can pose that threat, then survivors will see you like that
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@JimboMason said:
This is not to be pretentious, sarcastic, or rude, I just want to get a general idea of the common mindsets, opinions, and ideas of the people on the forums.
I just pray that all the posts I see are people joking, they can't be serious right?
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@NOEDENJOYER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2735766#Comment_2735766
No matter what narrative you try to take, Circle of Healing is busted and is a win for the survivors.
16 seconds to place, 16 seconds to heal, and let's say another 10 seconds to find a totem to bless. 42 seconds to get a single heal from COH.
42 seconds divided by 4 (as there are four survivors, and your time as an individual survivor is only 1/4 important as the killers) is 10.5 seconds.
You spent 10.5 seconds to give yourself, and your entire team infinite med-kits and the ability to destroy any ability for the killer to snowball. How is that fair? Unless a survivor is dumb and goes down next to the boon, it will always take the killer more time to destroy the boon, than it is for the survivors to place it and even use it.
This perk destroys any semblance of killer pressure. Leave it up? Everyone's fully healthy and you're forced to tunnel people as hit and run tactics do not work. Snuff it out? Enjoy giving the survivors an easy victory as even 10-20 seconds of no generator pressure is enough to spiral a game out of control (because once again, 20 seconds x 4 survivors = 80 seconds).
There is no defending this perk.
Again i was never defending CoH, i still think healing has been busted for a long time and needs touched, doesn't mean that all boons are broken though.