Kebek
Kebek
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@SmokePotion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/368986#Comment_368986
When you moonwalk you are breaking sight of the survivor. It's not hard for them to loop back around you. and pick up the chase again.
It's not a good tactic against decent players.
No it isn't easy to do since it's impossible. Chases currently work from killers LOS and he's the one controlling it meaning you have no chance if he knows what he's doing.
If you really belive that it's possible then show me. Add me on steam and we can test how easy it is to do. If you'll loop me for at least 1-2 minutes I'll believe you that's it's possible. I'm not really a Legion player but don't believe that any decent Legion player can be looped for longer those 1-2 minutes.
If it's as easy to do as you claim then it shouldn't be a problem right ?
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@SmokePotion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/368915#Comment_368915
Again, bloodhound has existed for.....ever. Also, i just want to point out the math here, as well as the counter play.
Deepwounds has a 30 second counter on it that starts to tick after the killer no longer has line of sight of his target for 3 seconds. This is a 33 second chase at it's base. And it's pretty much impossible to break a chase immediately, even if you turn around and moonwalk immediately. 33 seconds is 1/4th of a generator or almost half if 2 are working it.
Killer then needs to go to his kill and pick it up, this chase is now closer to a minute.
All of this is ignoring the fact that decent survivors arent scared of legion, and force him to pick up chases he's trying to break, by making him see them. My longest chase playing DBD was trying to do this cheese tactic against a rank 4 survivor. They literally ran me for 5 gens, with deepwounds on the whole time. It is not hard, in the least bit, for the survivor to use this mechanic against Legion. And it is a bad tactic.
And before you try to say i must be bad, and don't know how to counter loops. I'll remind you that I'm a very Vocal Hag main that plays rank 1 naked. I specialize in 110 ms killers. I find them the most fun, but I am also a decently known Clown player at rank 1 too. I'm no stranger to countering loops.
This is just painful to read. How could have any survivor looped you as Legion for 5 gens if you were using moonwalking. That's literally impossible unless you stare at them and don't use your power which would mean you don't know how to moonwalk properly.
Also you stating that it's easy to do means that you are capable of looping decent Legions that moonwalk that long ? If so I'd love to see some proof of such amazing skill in action.
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Noed is stable topic of complaining for survivors since release. Legion complains however I can agree with them on (the rational ones at least). There are things about him in dire need of changes no matter his current viability.
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Difference is that playing against nurse is fun and you can actually juke even really good nurses if you know what you're doing. No matter how godlike nurse someone is even they have to do guess blinks sometimes when they don't have LOS so you have a chance to mindgame then with those.
With Legion you'll just get double stabbed (super easy to do) and then he can moonwalk you for 30s and you're just down no matter what you do (especially if they use bloodhound). You can't stay in chase vs him and you can't break it since both ends up in you going down.
Ofc I'm not saying that he's strong but he is the pure definiton of anti-fun killer to verse. He just needs rework that will make him skillful to use and remove some of his BS mechanics.
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I would feel sick that someone decided to nerf most balanced killer in DBD. Billy has best balance between beiing dangerous but not strong enough to be considered OP since to everything he does there is counterplay available.
Any nerfs/buffs to him are unreasonable since he's in perfect spot balance wise and doesn't need any changes whatsoever,
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/367042#Comment_367042
I forgot to address the moon-walking, that's something that is unavoidable which I agree should be changed as its a cheap and unfair tactic.
And yes, any semi decent Legion can be effective against a survivor team. Which is why I agree he needs things changed about him, but I don't agree that people should just out right say to delete him or change the power all together as they're already cemented into the game.
And yes, healing is a counter to Legion actually. It's true that it will waste time to do so but it can also throw off Legions momentum since he thrives off of the entire team being hurt. It wastes more of his time to hit the same survivor again with Deep Wound, so it will put more strain on Legions strategy. And if he actively wants to down a specific survivor it will divert his attention from the other 3 survivors doing gens while being fully healed.
I agree skill isn't a main factor with Legion, but I disagree that he has no counter and that he can't be effectively mind gamed in some scenarios.
I agree that people who ask about removing/disabling are unreasonably silly but rework if done right is only real solution to Legion's problem.
Ofc there are players who are possible to mindgame and lose since they'll make a lot of mistakes while playing him but that still doesn't change the fact that there isn't any actuall chase counter to Legion. He just has far too upper hand in 1v1 chases unlike any other killer in game without any skill to playing him. With other chase strong killers you never know when you'll make mistake causing you to go down. For example with nurse and spirit you can still do some good mindgames and guesses but with Legion there is just nothing. You can't stay in chase against him since he'll stab you to death and you can't lose him since you'll still go down becuase of DW effect if he's only decent at tracking or has BL.
I wish devs at least gave botany knowledge buff to make it so you don't bleed if you have it equipped. That would give us real counter to moonwalking bloodhound Legions without crippling ourselfs against every other killer by using No mither.
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It's always funny to me when I get called camper by 3 surviors swarming around my one hooked one and when they all die because of that they complain I didn't play "fair".
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Basement builds are fun while still beiing useful. I play him with Iron grasp, Agitation, Mad grit, Monstorous shrine. If you get good 3 gen setup around your basement you can do fairly well even against good survivors.
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It's funny since your counter based around healing yourself is exactly what you shouldn't do in most scenarios against Legion. If you heal against him you're losing time you could be on gens and only way to defeat decent Legion is to gen rush really fast.
Also your counter doesn't adress the main issue, the moonwalking. If semi decent legion double stabs you which is super easy to do and then breaks the chase and moonwalks you, you're just going down no matter what (especially if they use bloodhound).
People don't hate Legion because of mending but because he removes all survivor skill from the game. No matter how good of a juker/looker you are decent Legion with right set up will down you in exactly the same time as everyone else.
Against every other killer your survivor skill matters. Legion is only one against who it does not while playing him is also extremely easy and that is why he needs rework.
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I feel that The Game offering has the same effect. Almost every time I use it someone dc's.
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Rank 1 and I use ruin on every killer but only since there just isn't any other perk that has potencial to slow down the game as much as ruin can. Other perks either are too slow at it or don't have enough impact on survivor decision making.
I don't really have problem playing without it since rank 1 still has tons of boosted potato survivors but ruin gives me hope that if it's totem doesn't spawn in some obvious spot it could decently slow down even good survivors which is very valuable effect.
I'd give 5/10 for every killer since it's so unrealiable but it's the best we killers got.
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/361608#Comment_361608
To each their own, I play the 'correct way', you play the abusive mechanic way. I will also not tell you how to play, but I myself am the kind of person who likes a challenge. And since I play the mostly intended way, Legion matches that description for me.
Ineed to each their own. But If I may ask why not play freddy insted if you like challenge ?
I think that he has far more limitations that would consider playing him to be a challenge.
Isn't playing Legion when you play him the intended way just waiting for your power to charge up so that you can land another stab. It feel like just waiting on your power to kick in and do the job.
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/361526#Comment_361526
I dislike the power for a completely different reason. It wasn't true to the character presented in the trailer. But to say he isn't skillful is like saying every other killer is skilless as well. People just play Legion wrong, and unfortunately, they have to.
Fun is subjective and when I get kills with him I feel rewarded since I normally R2 them down since I can mindgame. As a survivor I can mostly counter everything even the scummiest of Legion players with time. Much like the Spirit or Nurse, learn how a Legion plays before deciding 'Well I'm dead, derp.'
Dunno how you play, but I can assure you I absolutely refuse to play like that. Very much like the Hag I will mind game by hiding my stain and trying my best to get a normal hit in whenever possible. To say you can't mind game as the Legion is wrong, you merely choose to play in a way that you felt would earn you kills.
Salt is a good factor when playing Legion, but Legion is as stressful to me as every other killer can get when the survivors know what they are doing. Guess who I use when I want a semi easy time and want to relax? The Trapper, yeah, you know the guy everyone seems to love throwing under the bus?
I want a reasonable rework too, but as of now is fine. At least to me. People are reacting to him like how they react to Freddy, except they don't even give Legion a chance. Legion is a edgy rebellious gang of teens, what else would they do? XD
I play my killers most of the time to earn as many kills as I can since that what I consider winning. Playing Legion normaly is not very effective against high ranked survivors since they don't waste as much time doing nothing like lower ranks do. So I use Bloodhound + sloppy butcher and just moonwalk them till they go down. There is no counter play against this from survivors side so I get my dcers but that is what I want when I play Legion since for me he's a salt mine. I also find it to be most effective way to play Legion since without his power any good looper will destroy him.
I'm not saying that I enjoy such style of play since I don't but when I'm just to feeling like doing mindgames and in dire need of some salt I just play Legion. He's so straight forward and easy to play unlike any other killer. Ofc you can educate me on which aspect of Legion requires skill since I certainly consider trapper to be much harder to play then Legion. With trapper you need to know every maps trap placements while still doing basic M1 mindgames. With Legion you just stab and wait and if you try to do M1 mindgames then you need to face potato survivors for them to work.
I dunno maybe I just never found the skilful way of playing him since moonwalking to me at least seems much more effective while beiing super easy.
Ofc I'm not telling you what you're supposed to have fun with. I'm just merely stating that Legion lacks any chase counterplay from survivor's point of view which is the foundation of the problem and why so many survivors dc against them.
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I feel tottaly same. Mories don't equal instant win. They are very powerful but they make games more tense which I love about survivor experience.
We really need harsher punishment for dcing. Right now it feels like whenever anyone wants to dc they can not matter how many other players they screw by it.
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I play Legion and I don't dc against them but I really dislike their power's design and I think it's really bad for the game. He need rework that makes him more skillful to play and give him more chase counterplay while possibly making him overall stronger.
Ofc Legion isn't very powerful killer if he's played like inteded or even with some small chase mechanics abuse. Problem is that he's extremely unfun to play against and not very rewarding to play as. As survivor you can't outjuke him or mindgame him with anything since he just vaults over everything and just stabs you till you go down. Not very enjoyable experience. If he's using bloodhound and he's moonwaling you're just on a set time until you go down and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
As killer you only stab people without doing any mindgames, any red glow plays or anything that requires any amount of brain activity since you don't suffer from any CD on your attacks and you're moving much faster. You can just stab them and wait until they go down and you pick them up. Yay I'm so skillful I managed to follow blood for 30s. It's just not the same as hitting survivors after some great red glow manipulation play.
Ofc I play Legion when I don't want to do difficult mostly even unrealiable mindgames while dealing with the annoying loops or when I just want some delicious survivor salt. That's whats most fun about him, that you don't have to try very hard and all the salt.
I hope he gets some meaningful changes soon since he's just unrewarding to play as and extremely annoying to play against. He needs more depth to him is probably what I want the most. Right now he's just bypassing everything that makes killers good at playing killer role.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/360185#Comment_360185
That's not really the point of this thread. I'm asking what you think makes a killer balanced.
Alright, in my opinion killer's power is balanced when it has decent chase potencial while still having enough couner play for survivors.
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Most of the powers are actually decently balanced. The problem with killers mostly isn't really a problem with specific killer power's beiing unbalanced but with survivors lacks of other objectives forcing them into doing only gens and that resulting in 5-7 min games.
Like wraith, trapper, doc, shape etc have good powers but every power can't be based around high mobility with also strong chase potencial like nurse and billy so they fall short on beiing good enough to deal with those short games.
If survivors got some new mechanics that would enable them doing more stuff in each match that would still be part of main objective it would solve a lot of these power's problems. Ofc if games get longer with such changes survivors should get according non looping based buffs to even it out.
Right now I consider only Legion, Cannibal and Freddy in dire need of rework since their powers are actually unbalanced either beiing too oppressive or far too weak and unrealiable.
I hope that those 3 get some decent reworks while survivors get some new objectives to prolong games with additional endgame changes.
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That's your opinon. For me it's stealth and juking like managing to evade the killer when he gets really close to you or losing him during chase by some smart juke.
Also vsing nurse and spirit in chases is probably equally fun to me as stealth is which is quite a lot. I wish I faced more of them but since I mainly play killer my survivor rank is most of the time around 10 so I don't see them as much there.
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Stealth beiing the same as immersion. Stealth doesn't meen hiding in a corner of the map doing nothing like immersion. Stleah is about beeing good at juking the evading the killer while doing gens. Always annoys me when people consider them the same.
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Greates wish is shirtless Myers but since that won't happen I'd chose these:
-Magician Ace with cylinder hat
-Full body robe with long dark cloak for wraith simmiliar to grim reaper
-Morning star on chain as weapon with some medievalish clothes for upcoming Plague
I'd buy these instantly if devs ever added them.
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No
Survivors suiciding on hooks isn't bannable either and that is far bigger problem then mere slugging that has tons of counters.
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Yet another new account created solely for purpose of whining about small positive killer changes and demanding massive survivor buffs.
Doc has a diagnosis for your issue.
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Candle head wraith.
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When was Plague in development did you consider making her Corrupt purge based on getting set amount of stacks from each corrupt fountain insted of timer ?
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I think that nothing will change in people's playstyles. Ranks don't yield any rewards so those who want to play that way will still play like that.
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That's because the main goal isn't to play efficiently on the PTB.
Survivors and killers are supposed to farm each other to ensure pips. It's at least only way that I see since all my 3k and 4k games were either depips or hardly blackpips.
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1 and 3 I tottaly agree with. Those should be definitevly changed before she goes live.
2 I think doesn't need to change if her corrupt purge of vile purge get buffed in some way. Maybe making corrupt purge based on tokens insted of timer to make it more versatile or give her vile purge some more effects like slower gen repair speed or puking slows down survivors at random.
4 I've never had problems with since you can charge it beforehand.
I though she's gonna be more powerful before PTB hit but now that I've played her decent amout of time I see a lot of issues like points 1 and 3. Those need fixing really bad. Still I love her power and design. She's much better chapter then Legion was.
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Devs wanted to make ranking up harder as we asked. Insted this new change forces us into farming and not playing optimally.
Who could have anticipated this unexpected turn of events ❓️❓️❓️
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@The_Crusader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/351511#Comment_351511
Pretty much. I just watched Tru3 play her, he's had a few hours with her already. He was saying how bad she is yet he was vomiting when survivors clearly weren't in range and was even trying to do it at pallets to survivors already in the broken status.
I mean she can punish gen tapping, and like Legion there's a feeling of not getting away? once she pukes on you then you're gonna be injured eventually. Not to mention she can infect vaults and pallets so if they try to loop her for long they're gonna be injured eventually anyway, meaning she only needs to get 1 hit in.
I see why the fountains heal survivors. It makes sense really. I'm not saying the fountain healing time couldn't be increased but it does need to heal them. They're already wasting time running off to them anyway.
Again she can punish survivors that vault, pallet loop, gen tap etc she has quite a diverse kit. Not to mention the corrupted purge looks extremely strong. You can even spray it through windows for the free down.
People don't even have optimal perks on her yet.
Tbh if any buffs should come her way I wouldn't mind if insted of timer her corrupt purge had stacks system. Survivors right now don't care if you have it since beiing broken is far stronger then dodging corrupt purge or outwaiting it. So giving killer more control over it might make them think twice.
Maybe each time you use corrupted fountain you gain 3-5 applications of corrupt purge. Just throwing ideas out there. I personally never liked managing timers like Shape has so this is based around what bugs me about her the most.
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I would wait if I were you. Killers tend to get changed after their PTB ends so she this might not be her final form.
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@MEMO212 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/351511#Comment_351511
but what about the fact that she is completely countered by people who know how to loop efieciently and can adapt to breaking line of sight
From what I tried you can use your power over a lot of loops and those you can't you can still force the pallet down in that area and move on.
I haven't had enough games (or perks) to try all the tactics I want so I'm still forming a opinion as well. Maybe I'm wrong and she is mid tierish but even then she is so much fun to play unlike Legion was.
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@Master said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/351520#Comment_351520
Another killer created for survivors fun you mean?
Yeah no thanks, I wanna play a killer that is actually viable.
Of course I can still derank and then play her, but.... ya know I wish she was a competitive killer
I think that with new emblem threshold a lot of us might derank neverthless unless we try hard every game. A lot of killer actions that can hurt survivors don't count into embles and wiping the floor with them no punishes you too. Devs probably want to discourage toxic behaviour but in the process they punish good killers managing to capitalize on survivors mistakes and killer then faster.
I dunno maybe it's good that we can get into lower ranks while still playing like we did.
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I don't think you are fully correct here. She isn't weak but we don't know how to play her optimally yet. Her power is completely amazing (except the slight fps drops). It's got enough counter play while beiing very powerful if used correctly.
When people figure out the best strategies and get optimal perks for her she'll be A tier like billy or at least hag/huntress imao. I just hope that some exploity things that I already found get patched out otherwise she'll be nuts OP.
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I think it's fair. Getting her sickness would be also free hit if it didn't heal them back up.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/350957#Comment_350957
But isn't it always like that? Everyone tries the killer and the lack of survivors gives insane lobby Q times
Yeah I hope lobbies won't take too long.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/350927#Comment_350927
What do you mean exactly?
There was a lot of possitive feedback on killer's power and design. Maybe survivors will go out of their way also wanting to try out new killer.
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From what I've seen on the forums regarding new chapter we might have lack of survivors to puke on. Hopefully there'll be enough of them for everyone.
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I hope I won't see "soon" on this fine evening.
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Back in the day even when the grind was much bigger there were far less perks overall. So since devs wanted to have long progression they made perks in this way.
On one of the streams they mentioned they have considered to removed perk tiers to decrease the grind in the future if I remember corectly. One day we might have just 1 tier for all perks but it also might never happen. It's just one of mady ideas how to decrease the grind eventually.
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It should but I don't really mind. Ranking up still doesn't give any reward except facing "better" players more frequently so there isn't much point in doing it faster.
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I doub it. It's just unreliable like hitboxes are.
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Doc probably just forgot about her. He's just a human afterall.
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Sweet change. Benefits both sides, killers will be faster and survivors will get camped less.
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Reason number 1 - DCing isn't punished hard enough
Reason number 2 - Legion ignores pretty much every survivor line of defence there is which makes him annoying to play against while he's super easy to play. If he moonwalks you are literaly going down and you can't do pretty much nothing about it.
Reason number - Toxic survivors want to loop and can't so they dc and ######### over their teammates. Any playing that enjoys chases and sucks at stealth doesn't want to face Legion since they won't have fun overall.
There are probably more but imao there are the main ones.
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I can't stand the waiting too since this chapter seems really neat. Oh well we can only hope that it's "soon".
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@Gorgonia said:
And he insists with the 5th perk slot heh...
Offtopic, how many of the legacy cosmetics owners still play the game?
I am.
Even when it became more and more rare I still see a legacy survivor from time to time.
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I'm betting on soon™
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Have you ever heard word "tension" ?
Facing constantly same killers without any alterations is boring. I love the tension that mories or some of the very powerful killer addons add to each match. Problem is that survivors just want to survive every game so they're calling out anything that can even remotely scare them and make their boring looping matches harder. I honestly don't know why they play semi-horror game like DBD if they don't like the idea of possible rare "OP" addons or offerings that make matches feel more tense.
And yes bad survivors won't even safety pip against some of these but that's their fault since they have every tool to face all of these addons and still wipe the floor with killer.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7_D5nkTsp4
34:53
I can see that chasing her while beiing focused on mindgames might be problematic for some killers.