The Over-Exaggeration of Legions Power
So I notice more and more people keep beating the dead horse about how Legion is busted, broken, etc. And its gotten to a point where people will not stop complaining about his existence until he's "removed" from the killer list.
And yes, I've also expressed my distaste towards certain killers before because of how they are played, and their powers. But I never over-exaggerated their powers to the point that they're the alpha killer, and they should be eliminated from the list entirely. (The only times I've done that is in the context of a joke...which some people still don't see somehow.)
While I agree that yes, Legions power can be annoying at times with his game of Mend, Heal, Mend, Heal, Mend, Heal, Etc. I 100% understand that, but for you to say he has zero counter to him and that he needs to be reworked entirely is a closed minded argument...
The killer doesn't need to be reworked because people dislike his power, that defeats the purpose of who the Legion is. For example, I hate Leather Face...But does that mean his chainsaw should be removed all together because I dislike him? No. Because that makes no sense what-so-ever and has nothing to do with why people dislike him. BHVR isn't going to remove nor will they change the power of a killer all together because some people of the community hate that specific killer. (That doesn't mean they won't Buff or Nerf killers powers, it means they won't erase a power all together because some people don't like it.)
[My Experience with Legion]
While I can understand that its not fun to Mend and Heal every second when facing Legion I can't see how that happens every second in game for people. When I face Legion this does happen to me, but all I do is Mend and Heal once and proceed to do gens afterwards. Most Legions don't play the Killer correctly anyways so 2 gens get popped and finally one person goes down. Even with a experienced Legion, they require the whole team to be injured before going into the phase of downing injured survivors.
I P3-50'ed Legion the first 3-4 Days he came out, hes a really good farmer, and can be fun at times (IMO) so I can fully understand what tactics to use on him that're either "scummy" or "fair" since I've had first hand experience with him for so long.
I will maximize his effectiveness when I use him, but I am no god, nor do I need his OP add ons like Franks Mixtape to get the job done either, the perfect balance for legion is the right set of perks and add ons. With so much experience does that mean I can say for sure he has no counter? If you think so, then you're looking at it the wrong way. Its BECAUSE of that experience that I can say for sure he does have a counter since I've played and faced the killer plenty of times.
[The Bandwagon]
How many times have I seen the same thing be said from so many people, yet they usually hardly face Legion... Not every Legion is the same my friends... Not every Legion will look at the ground while following you so you bleed out from Deep Wound... Not every Legion will use Franks Mixtape or a combination of Add-ons that are OP...Not...Every...Legion...Is...The...Same....
Just because X said this about Legion doesn't mean you'll experience the same thing with the next person playing Legion. And just because Y agrees with X doesn't make what X said anymore true...
Unless you face the killer every match you play survivor, I don't see why you have any reason to complain. I can agree the killer doesn't require much skill to effectively use him, regardless of this that doesn't make him any more OP than everyone claims he is.
Yes, there are Add-Ons that make Legion unbearable, and yes, its annoying to Mend and Heal, but heres the thing, How many Legions have you faced in a row that all used Franks Mixtape? Or how many times have you had to Mend and Heal in one match with him? I leave that up to you guys to figure that answer out.
[The Counter]
Saying Legion has no counter makes no sense, every killer has a counter, no Killer is perfect. Legion can easily have pressure applied to him from the very thing most people complain about. Fully healing after a chain frenzy is applied to multiple people will prevent him from one hit downing you. I see this time and time again, not fully healing after a mend doesn't mean you're safe... It just makes it easier for him to kill everyone.
If you don't heal, you're more of a open target to get downed by a normal attack, if you're at full health he'll be forced to frenzy you and if he wants to persist the chase this will cost him time. Legion is as fast as Hag, so it requires a lot of planning of where Legion is to effectively down a hurt survivor.
And this goes without saying, but if Legion finds 3 people on a gen and frenzy's all 3 of them, he can only go after one person to guarantee a down. The other 2 survivors are not just gonna let their timers run out and die on the floor, that gives them time to heal and finish the gen or fully heal and finish the gen.
If you see fast pace killers like Legion, Nurse, Billy, Etc. Expect them to be using Discordance. ESPECIALLY expect this on Legions, keep this in mind when you face one again.
So what you want to focus on is always being fully healed even after getting hit with Deep Wound, and go solo on generators to prevent several people from being frenzy chain stabbed. Despite this being easy to recover from it costs time. And in DBD...time is everything.
[Conclusion]
At the end of the day, does Legion need some changes? Yes, in moderation which goes for any killer on the roster.
Does he need an entire rework because people dislike his power? No.
Should he be deleted because some people dislike him? No, that's a narrow minded answer to a simple problem.
[TL;DR] This isn't bait, this post isn't to trigger anyone, its more of an answer and a statement to all the complaining I see about Legion, feel free to read any segment you came here for, or the whole thing.
Comments
He is in a similar spot like freddy. He needs a buff, but preferably via a rework
Changes to the power itself? I'm open for debate. However, erasing the power all together as most people hope doesn't solve the actual issue at hand.
People fail to see that erasing his power would mess with a lot of things. They'd have to rework BT (Again) and re-establish how things were before Deep Wound was applied. And on top of that why would they remove an entire status effect? Because some people don't like it? People don't like Nurse too but I don't see her getting deleted ever.
He doesnt need any rework, the idea behind the character is awesome (be able to hurt multiple people in no time) but the execution is awful. Why?
1st: His power doesnt give you enough time and speed to go search for a second survivor when you hit the first one, therefore he is not good at what he is meant to be good.
2nd: His power breaks any survivor defense. This is great, it lets him get to other survivors (if they are close enough) pretty damn fast once he hits the others but... You can down people with his power. That's bad game design. A power that lets you down any player you want because they cant defend themselves? Bad game design. That's why devs are working on him right now.
I dont want him to be removed because I freaking love the character (I even dressed as him in Carnival and posted my own mask on Community Creations) but I hate how braindead he is. If devs rework him and make it so that he is not able to go after multiple people (which I dont think this will happen) I'll be very disappointed. The only fix is to make him unnable to use his power to down people, he should use it as a tool to hurt multiple survivors, that's it. Make him 115%ms so that survivors have a reason to heal against him as well.
The no counter argument isn't about how good or bad a killer he is, the no counter argument is due to the fact with frenzy they will catch you and hit you, any competent player will not miss.
Every other killer even the nurse you can evade and lose without being hit but w8th legion he uses the same mechanics as a survivor.
Legion is weak and that's also part of the problem, the best counter to him is to not heal and do gens as at 110% he is easily loopable without his power, the problem is when injured you will have that hit, mend, hit,mend over and over scenario if they are any good.
How You play also has no bearing as that is one person, I don't loop I try to evade but that doesn't mean playing ring around the pallets is fun for a lot of players hence there are still complaints about it.
When a killer can do everything a survivor does it negates what they have which is meant to try and break a chase, that is the one and only counter in a chase that is stable without the needs for any perks or items.
So what else is left? Survivors use the most complained about problem by killers of gens going to fast to there advatage, the heal aspect itself is designed to help slow the game down at certain stages but with the legion games I have been in they don't seem to heal at all, that is a tell take sign of a problem as gens then go even faster making the game not fun for either side.
Mend is the only mechanic added with the Legion, it is not new its the same old borrowed time mechanic with a new colour bar which doesn't run out in a chase, changing that wouldn't take long at all its tweaking some values.
I think Legion's power is fine the way it is. Only his add-ons need to be looked at a little. Frank's doesn't suit the playstyle of Legion. And Legion's red pin is kind of worthless tbh. Just like Wraith's version of this. The problem with those two add-ons is that, while they are useful for knowing where to go, they take up a valuable add-on slot that can make the difference between a 30-second chase and a minutes long chase.
Its the opposite for me tbh, red pin is more useful than smoking mixtape.
And I think Franks works well with Legion because it ties into his power, does it mean its still busted though? Obviously, they should just redo the add on entirely, but I feel that's not gonna solve the issue.
It is funny because I do better with other killers than Legion. If it was op it wouldn't be that way for sure.
At this point its more and more obvious people in this community like picking the most hated killer at the time and bandwagon on it till the next worst killer comes along.
All I heard back before Legion came out was how annoying and boring doctor was to face and play, now I hear nothing bad about him.
Actually, the Legion can be hidden from by avoiding his terror radius while hes in Feral Frenzy. He can only see your aura during frenzy when you're in his Terror Radius, and since its not a big terror radius its pretty easy to avoid being chain frenzied by him
Regardless if you get away from it and he chases after you, you can still divert him away from the others so they don't get hit by him. Saying you can't loop Legion makes no sense, they are as fast as Hag, and while yes they have the ability to hop over vaults and pallets, they can be mind gamed into being hit by the pallet which depletes their frenzy meter to zero and wastes more of their time.
I can agree the add-ons need to be redone, but when you look at most killers which OP add-ons I can't help but say that applies to most killers also. And yes, the Legion will most likely guarantee a down if they tunnel a specific person long enough, but yet again the same can be said about any killer they actively tunnels a specific survivor to death.
And if its a good Legion that does get 1 kill...its better than your entire team being dead isn't it? You can't say every Legion is guarantee'd 1 kill every game, that's like saying every Nurse will 4k every match they play on. This ties back into what I said before (Not every Killer that plays Legion is the same, they have their own play-styles and ways of thinking.)
And also the doctor can be hidden from, lockers block his passive shocks, so its not really difficult to stealth away from him if you understand where a good locker position is.
@FireHazard As a Legion main, I thank you for taking the time to write this and try to view both side’s thoughts and opinions and break them down into a reasonable response. It gets annoying when you see the same post over and over again on the forums of some Survivor main wanting Legion to be reworked because they worshipped something a YouTuber/Streamer said. Yes, his ability isn’t exactly the greatest to go against as a Survivor, but what a lot of people don’t understand that (and this is just MY opinion on Legion since day one when I started maining him back in December) he focuses entirely on slowing down in-game METAs, which is Gen Rushing, Looping, and Insta-heals. I view him as a jack of all trades as he actually can perform all 3 of these but not as well as other Killers can in one specific tier of the three stated. He has counters and weaknesses that not a lot of people really want to take the time to learn, as due to the fact they DC before they get the chance to even see if the Legion they’re going against is any good. Again, I’d like to thank you for making this, it really makes me feel better knowing that some people are willing to at least explore deeper into Legion than those who will complain about reworks and removal of such a unique and interesting killer. :)
Thank you, it's just my insight on the killer itself from my experience facing and playing him. I've played him in the PTB and got him to P3-50 in 3-4 days of his release, and all I've seen are people band-wagoning that they hate him and this and that.
To be honest I don't think people hate Legion (Well some do) I just think its because of the mob-mentality of X saying its bad so Y should share that opinion too while not playing him worse or facing him once as a survivor. But its nice to also see others gave him a chance rather than just assuming the worst and that was that.
Of course he needs to be touched up on also, but what killer doesn't need a re-touch these days.
You can loop legion, what are they going frenzy you 5 times? Lmao
It's funny since your counter based around healing yourself is exactly what you shouldn't do in most scenarios against Legion. If you heal against him you're losing time you could be on gens and only way to defeat decent Legion is to gen rush really fast.
Also your counter doesn't adress the main issue, the moonwalking. If semi decent legion double stabs you which is super easy to do and then breaks the chase and moonwalks you, you're just going down no matter what (especially if they use bloodhound).
People don't hate Legion because of mending but because he removes all survivor skill from the game. No matter how good of a juker/looker you are decent Legion with right set up will down you in exactly the same time as everyone else.
Against every other killer your survivor skill matters. Legion is only one against who it does not while playing him is also extremely easy and that is why he needs rework.
I forgot to address the moon-walking, that's something that is unavoidable which I agree should be changed as its a cheap and unfair tactic.
And yes, any semi decent Legion can be effective against a survivor team. Which is why I agree he needs things changed about him, but I don't agree that people should just out right say to delete him or change the power all together as they're already cemented into the game.
And yes, healing is a counter to Legion actually. It's true that it will waste time to do so but it can also throw off Legions momentum since he thrives off of the entire team being hurt. It wastes more of his time to hit the same survivor again with Deep Wound, so it will put more strain on Legions strategy. And if he actively wants to down a specific survivor it will divert his attention from the other 3 survivors doing gens while being fully healed.
I agree skill isn't a main factor with Legion, but I disagree that he has no counter and that he can't be effectively mind gamed in some scenarios.
Honestly, if Bhvr doesn't want to rework the Legion, giving them Frank's mixtape and Cold dirt as part of their base kit is an option. And no. I don't care how "unfun" it may see/play for survivors.
To me add ons isn't an arguement for Legion since... Insta down Hatchets exist, pinkie finger, etc.
I agree that people who ask about removing/disabling are unreasonably silly but rework if done right is only real solution to Legion's problem.
Ofc there are players who are possible to mindgame and lose since they'll make a lot of mistakes while playing him but that still doesn't change the fact that there isn't any actuall chase counter to Legion. He just has far too upper hand in 1v1 chases unlike any other killer in game without any skill to playing him. With other chase strong killers you never know when you'll make mistake causing you to go down. For example with nurse and spirit you can still do some good mindgames and guesses but with Legion there is just nothing. You can't stay in chase against him since he'll stab you to death and you can't lose him since you'll still go down becuase of DW effect if he's only decent at tracking or has BL.
I wish devs at least gave botany knowledge buff to make it so you don't bleed if you have it equipped. That would give us real counter to moonwalking bloodhound Legions without crippling ourselfs against every other killer by using No mither.