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Endstille
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893355#Comment_893355
You missed the part where I said: (not every killer)... since they’re slowly getting reworked/buffed to that level.
Yeah i did overread that, apologies.
I think what makes solo experience so bad is a combination of factors.
Killers having very bad experiences when going against optimal survivors, nobody likes a ruined game. Thus they tunnel and try to play optimal as well with no regards whether another person has a good game. In addition to that comes the fact that it is straight out easier to rank up as survivor thus ranks are filled with people that do not belong where they are at.
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You think legion is balanced around 4man swf? Doc? Clown? Ok then.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/891991#Comment_891991
I'm a Killer main, so this doesn't have a massive impact on me.
The only time this had an impact on me was when I was doing the Survivor specific Achievements that came with Chapter 14 and the bug only happened to me once.
Now that they're done, unless i'm doing a challenge than I have no issues with it and don't plan on hooking anyone in the basement... since my basement challenges are done (for now) and any I have in the future will be after this bug is fixed.
If I was at a challenge requiring me to do basement hooks... I can just skip it until the bug is fixed. Just as a... act of kindness and understand to the Survivors I face. I guess... idk.
Yeah sure i understand but people know, people might not know so due to the challenges people are more likely to go for hooks in the basement arent they? I mean we are on the forums but the majority is not.
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@SaintsxSinners said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/891982#Comment_891982
If I remember correctly you could pull survivor in certain spots, like off an adjacent ledge, they would hang and if you were shot the survivor fell down and were incapacitated.
As I said I think L4D is a well balanced game, I had no gripes, it's arguably in my top 5 favorites of all time. But it wasn't perfect for everyone.
Yes you could do that on certain maps for example on bloodharvest final right at the start, left to the saferoom that you leave. However you know how that was handled by experienced players?
People countdown, rush out, spamming right click and shooting at the spot, the chances of that happening vs experienced players were incredibly low, not to mention that even when you would land the hit with the smoker the constant spamming would free the survivor immediately and break off the tongue.
So yeah it was just a thing of experience and nothing else :)
However I just wanted to point out that there are lots of games out there which do not suffer the same problems as dbd.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/891921#Comment_891921
A challenge and an unintentional bug are two different things.
They're not encouraging the exploit... every bug just happens randomly, it usually happens around new patches.
Regardless, to say they're encouraging players to do it is completely false.
I think you missunderstood, i meant they encourage hooking in the basement and not anything else. This is why i mean as survivor when you play the game, expect killers to hook you in the basement due to challenges. Thus stop playing until they fix this or enjoy the bug.
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@SaintsxSinners said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/891927#Comment_891927
I thought L4D was a fine game. I had no major issues with it, but my old inbox would tell me that it wasn't perfect for everyone. "Hunters should die in a fire and shouldn't be able to do more damage if they pounce on you while you're on fire." "Tanks shouldn't spawn at this point." "Survivors shouldn't be able to rush to the safe room that easily." "Smokers shouldn't have locations where they can pull you and no one can save." Those are the ones I remember.
Sounds like noobs.
Hunters should do dmg, competitive it was played in pro mod which removed the +25 cap. Survivors rushing through the map, dictated the pace of the game and making it hard for infected to coordinate their attacks. Tanks are okay and fine to deal with at almost any place and even if you get killed once, it is not the end of the world. There is not a single pull performable by a smoker that can kill a survivor without being saved by others, they did make a mistake prior to it mostly a boomer blocking LoS for them and they didnt spam right click. Pulls are possible but only against people who do not know how to deal with it.
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@SaintsxSinners said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/891907#Comment_891907
My post accidentally got deleted but you're telling me there were never any gripes with any of those games? Because I can tell you from experience with L4D and L4D2 that I had a list of them that people used to send.
What list? Sure there were gripes but in the end the games were balanced at all times, changing meta a bit here and there but anything being overlooked or becoming too powerful and it would be changed.
What issues did you have with l4d/2 ?
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Here is a crazy thought, stop playing the game when it has gamebreaking bugs like these.
Yeah you don't know about the bug maybe, however they encourage basement hooks with the challenges. Just stop playing.
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How about Natural Selection 2, Star Craft 2, Dota, Quake, CS, L4D, L4D2... list goes on.
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Highly optimal?
All need it.
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Buy the new killer, he is good at tracking i heard.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/890550#Comment_890550
That right there would be a non sequitur. Just because one system is not so friendly to new players at the moment doesn't mean that we don't care about new players when we try to make something else more intuitive. What we're aiming to eliminate is the question of, "Does X work with Y?" Like the example given, why does Sloppy Butcher work with Frenzy while NOED does not? Both activate on basic attacks, so why are they different? Having each power work on a case by case basis would mean you'd either have to look it up or test it out for each killer.
True story, friend of mine bought the game before you released legion and i bought them and uh yeah so when he was learning the game, he asked me like does this work (ff + noed) and i am like no it doesn't, he laughed and did immediately understand why this wouldn't work. It doesn't take experienced players to figure stuff like that out. It is also a nice experience to get to know more about the game which you like so much and know not everything right at the start but hey that is just me. Games like DS have huge fanbases while they explain jack to the everybody at the start.
Keep in mind by streamlining everything due to "making it easier to balance" you essentially lower the learning curve and get a step closer to making killers the same as survivors, skins.
Funny you now have made oni who almost seems to be able to does just that (ff + noed) but with a build up phase ofc. Somebody (if you read this, i remember you have a hag portrait and your name is something with C, props to you) said in another thread i think that oni shouldve been the new legion and i completely agree.
You compare the dash to legion ff? It is just part of her kit, remove everything else from the pig and you will get the same reactions from the people that care about that killer.
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So every dlc or almost every dlc, a new killer comes along that breathes new life into the game for the people that play him. Tell me what do survivors get? Perks and a skin you can waste another couple of millions of bp in so you have all those useless perks (with a couple of new ones) /items+addons .
Gameplay? Same, nothing new for survs ever.
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Or people do not give a ######### about legion? I honestly do not know when i played against him for the last time and that is no wonder or miracle which is also shown by his low pickrate.
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Can't wait for what they think is making him more fun to play against.
My bet is it will be underwhelming and I will same as before never see a doc in redranks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/889084#Comment_889084
It’s so funny to me that people are only complaining about Forever Freddy NOW, despite it being entirely possible on Old Freddy with old Swing Chains, old Jump Rope, old Dying Light, old Remember Me, and Overcharge to make it close to impossible for gens to be repaired.
And if the survivors were indeed lucky enough to get all 5 gens repaired after 20 to 30 minutes, trying to get the exit gates open was even MORE of a nightmare.
Survivors have it WAY easier against current Freddy.
It is not now and he is a lot more common. You know i just don't understand their reasons and i do not care any longer.
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@HamdaN said:
so everyone whos played the dlc knows if u get hooked in basement your camera is permanently blacked out and you cant see anything. killers have been purposely trying to force basement in order to do this in games. but god forbid somehow basement ever gets disabled or its fixed within 24 hours making every game miserable for any team. this is equal to the old flashlight macro crashing peoples games.
im curious to see what you do devs.
I agree ban them all.
I wanna see how long those waiting times for a lobby can be.
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@OmegaXII said:
Devs: Legion's power is not suppose to down survivors, but to make them wasting time to mend and potentially slowing down the game
Also devs: Let's nerf his power to slow down the game because it's too ridiculous
Interesting, right?
The real irony that this comes from the same people that give you fun stuff like forever freddy. 😂
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@Helevetin_nopee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/889057#Comment_889057
At red ranks billy just easily becomes a loopable m1 killer, if you think he can end chases faster you definetly dont even play killer.
Yes he becomes that against good survivors sure but red rank doesnt mean good does it?
He has the potential to end chases faster whether you like it or not. Just to clear things up i was obviously kidding ofc a nurse can end a chase fast but on average? I doubt since all bad nurses drag it down so you will have to look at the potential of a killer.
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I just have to make that comment but no you are wrong. Any billy can end a chase faster as he doesn't need to hit twice. Imagine some killers can end chases before they even started as for example trapper :D or iri huntress but hey that is all fun and all.
Yeah and the trade off is what? You get to play alot of spirit and such fun stuff like forever freddy. If I have the choice I will always pick to play against prenerf base nurse than any of the other two.
I doubt they will listen and it could be worse like legion but you can try if you want to see other testing i can do that too.
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What? Stbfl with 8 tokens makes the usage of ff utterly obsolete and legion able to down people very fast and end chases so quickly compared to without it, injured survivors grouping up is slugalore with that.
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@Widowmaker8197 said:
Why does every killer run ruin? I promise it's not mandatory in high ranks. Some of these killers just don't know how to apply pressure. I'm sure none of you will agree with me since 99% of this forum are killer mains, but it's whatever. Keep your precious crutch perk.
You playing on pc?
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888904#Comment_888904
Why would you ever hit a survivor twice just to apply the Blindness effect? You're giving them a free speed boost and extending the chase much longer than you have to, while still losing the Frenzy and suffering the 4 second cooldown. I can't think of a single scenario where it's worth it. Hence why I had 20+ unused Smiley Face Pins in my inventory.
If the survivors spread out enough that KI doesn't highlight anyone else, then you say "Oh well, at least I know there aren't any other survivors around here", end the Frenzy, and continue the chase normally. Not every add-on is useful in every situation. Just ask Demogorgon or Myers. It's still better than an add-on that literally encourages you to make a misplay.
To get stacks on perks such as stbfl? Just to explain this is 3 tokens with a single survivor, you would get those tokens very fast on legion. Having 6/8 tokens on stbfl makes him way more lethal than anything you get right now in return.
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Oh and don't underestimate clown with the few useful addon combos that he has he can actually be very good. But I doubt that many people care how to play him at all. Clown even has an instadown that is stuff that legion can only dream of.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888564#Comment_888564
Just because the survivors try not to group up, doesn't mean it's never going to happen. There are only so many scenarios where all of your teammates can be spread out enough that Legion can't chain any hits together.
Plus, before these changes, the buttons were completely useless, no matter how the survivors played. They forced you to do something that you should never do as Legion.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888577#Comment_888577
You are the one who started an argument. You chose to escalate it and antagonize me every time I replied to you. I simply reciprocated your behavior after I started to get fed up with it.
Yeah uh so what you gonna do when there is nobody highlighting? Before you could at least apply it via a 2nd hit and have a choice, give the survivor another buff and extend the chase even longer or get out of ff. They removed that choice if i am not mistaken for some rare occasion that good survivors do group up and are unable to delta split. I don't see the buff ?
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Thanks
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888486#Comment_888486
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888517#Comment_888517
I honestly dont know. But it makes sense in a way that they also remove the possibility of using Sloppy Butcher with Feral Frenzy. There is also no other way to see the reduction of the Mending Timer when it is not meant to reduce the Slowdown-Potential. (They nerfed one of the Blades btw)
My assumption is that the thought process was to remove the Slowdown-Capability and in return to compensate for the Nerfs, increase the Mobility. I would not say that the other way around was the case, because even with this increased mobility, there would have been no need to nerf other aspects about Legion.
Nope it was confirmed by @Almo in some thread. I honestly do not remember where but if you ask one of the legion mains nicely maybe @UlvenDagoth had a screenshot of it. That was why they changed it, due to the top mending times with the two blades.
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@StarMoral said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888547#Comment_888547
Wraith erased the "No" on his forehead AFTER the rework, so there goes that thought.
But his original design of Rushdown captivated a lot of people, including me. Eventually that tactic turned to slowdown, and the fans followed. It's almost like people just like what they like and don't like when it's unnecessarily changed... Poorly changed.
Oh he actually did you are right, totally forgot about that.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/888521#Comment_888521
They can run to the other side of the map, unhook someone, get mended for 8 seconds and move on. They can get on a gen, wait till the timer is close to done then run behind something and mend for 12 seconds. OTZ got an 8 man Feral Frenzy streak cause mending is so quick now. Now they can literally just run away and mend, or mend after Legion leaves. The slight speed boost is HEAVILY outweighed by all the nerfs.... and the speed boost is just a reverted nerf. Legion's power is literally a punishment now
You know even tho i dislike otz, he actually did what I imagined legion is good for now. He can run like a dog at the fence chasing from one side to the other and never be a threat. Such fun, such wow utterly useless killer.
How are the button addons useful? They only work if people are grouping up together, you know something good survivors do not do especially against legion. Please explain to me how they are useful.
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@DelsKibara said:
Legion is not Old Freddy, he is way worse than Old Freddy. Old Freddy was oppressive in the right hands, and consistently powerful if you are skilled enough with him.
Legion nowadays is much worse than Old Freddy.
I disagree, old freddy wasn't able to protect totems or whatever he had to wait until the survivor was "sleeping" i do know what you mean with the transition and everything but that didn't change the fact that he had huge downsides when he was not able to even interact with the survivor.
Legion was always made fun of right from the start and rightfully so. Do you remember Samnation DBD Parody 5? Wraith told him to gtfo and stand in the corner before writing "NO" on his face.
I really have no idea why somebody would want to play legion? He has nothing going for him like literally every other 115% killer has a way superior power.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/885656#Comment_885656
This was not to buff BT, but to nerf Legions Slowdown-Potential. The BT-Buff is a side-effect, but not the aim of this.
Yeah it makes total sense thinking about this, due to two addons that increased mending times you do not change the 2 addons but instead change the applied status effect and give buffs to other perks. Why keep things simple when you can do stuff like that?
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@toxic_clown said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/887243#Comment_887243
my perkless and addonless games were at rank 1. i got a few 4ks.
you need to be a good m1 killer player to play him well.
Don't forget that the survivors have to be kinda dumb as well. Never seen a legion being a threat there.
@Lentoro said:
I'm just sad that BHVR keeps coming up with these new awesome killers with unique and interesting powers which are actually fun and useful, but Legion is forgotten and left in the dumpster.
Well guess what you/we already paid for jeff/legion.
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@Mr_K said:
Looks like the survivor doesn't start moving until the Nurse fully charges the blink and started to move forward some. Possibly even during the blink. I would have to slow it down some to know for sure (and be on a PC instead of a phone).
This could show the disparity between the numbers and the video.
I tag both of you, i read this thread today.
Your observation is correct (@Mr_K about him starting to run later)
I basicly wanted to see how much this statement " running in a straight line is all you have to do against base nurse" holds true. I even made another video in which i used single blinks, with single blinks you will not catch up to the survivor like at all.
We basicly decided to use whispers to have a marker for 32m, nothing to difficult. I thought okay uhm if this running in a straight line is actually valid counterplay, as soon as you see nurse blinking towards you, you start doing the counter -> running. So on both maps we made several runs, the first on each map is when the survivor starts running as he sees the nurse blinking towards him from 32m which ofc can be more at times.
The 2nd run on each map was with the intention of as soon as you see me move, run not just when i start blinking. The survivor on thompson house did start later as he had trouble watching his back 😀 however you can see on 2nd try with ace that he gets much further away.
The thing is there is rarely such a huge deadzone so you will usually have LoS-Breakers at some point. Running away is actually very valid. Why? Because nurse mains have it in their memory to when there is LoS breaker, they blink to the obstacle due to the survivor tryin to bait them into cutting them off. Now you simply run to that adjust the angle and keep running, the nurse will most likely not blink max distance and stop at the corner of whatever it is so she will not be able to catch up as much (cd;fatigue stays the same whether you blink 1m or 20).
Just a straight line is 3x2 blinks, you mentioned execution errors, explain them to me and i can make other runs. When you now exactly when you have to juke it is just way easier to do this like run left and as you see run other direction. Biggest problem i see is there is no real payoff to play nurse, i mean why bother when you can do the same on other killers. Not literally the same but all other killers are not as punishing.
You keep forgetting that there are no exhaustion perks used, no bl, no dh, no sb or lithe with this you will extend the chase again by quite a big amount. Honestly it is way too effective for how braindead easy it is to run in a straight line. This has nothing to do with skill.
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@TangledNoodles said:
There's times where I have taken a break from playing and then come back but it's reaching a point where I just don't really feel like playing anymore. I mainly play survivor and I feel like it would be nice if another objective would be added or a different game mode.
Yeah we get new chapters but quite frankly it's more entertaining for killer mains because killers are actually play different, but survivors are essentially the same person just different perks. We (whoever mains survivor) usually get 2 ######### perks and 1 decent one that would later get nerfed so it's like... why am I buying this chapter again? lol
Anyone else got some input or feels similar?
EDIT: I have been playing for a while I have about 3.5k hours and I tried a couple of things to spice things up. Maybe when the new chapter comes out I'll get into the groove again lol.
This is what I've been saying for quite some time, killer gets new playstyles new perks new builds.
As survivor, hold m1, learn new loops and that is it. Nothing changes. Yeah I do feel similar, i didnt buy the dlc and think i will not. Right now I am just bored af, remove nurse and get fun killer like forever freddy.
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Not a weeb, so far seems underwhelming. Billy who can curve better than oni at any given time.
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So 12/8 sec eh?
How long does his ff last right now the longest?
I can't help but picture him running like a dog between two survivors who immediately mend after being hit. :S
F
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872064#Comment_872064
Way too much meandering to reply to. I'll reply to your last question: yes, I like these changes for the exact reason you said. You said you didn't have to play optimally at rank 1 (I assume?) as nurse and were still able to perform very well consistently. That is something I strongly believe shouldn't be possible.
The thing that nurse mains seem to gloss over is that literally every killer can win very easily against survivors who aren't the best, whether those killers use addons or not. If I were to play against an average purple survivor rank team I would win every single game with any killer. But, when you start facing the really good survivors, you have to play optimally. They are playing optimally. They are doing those gens as fast as they can. Why should you, as a basekit killer, be able to keep up with players of equal skill to you when you aren't playing optimally? Is that really balance to you?
I strongly, strongly believe that when you are at the top ranks of any game, you have to play optimally against the other top players. Not needing to do that as nurse was why nurse was so hated by so many people. And that's why so many people are happy with how nurse is now.
If I was able to perform as well as basekit nurse was able to with my huntress (not using addons) I would be so disappointed with the state of balance. I would welcome a nerf to huntress. I want this game as close to balanced as an asymmetrical game can be (which is why it is frustrating that the obvious biggest issue in the game - the maps - isn't getting as much attention as it should).
Oh, and please stop putting words I absolutely did not say in my mouth.
Sorry for a real late answer to this but I guess better late than never.
Yeah you didn't have to play optimally at any rank and thus give players a fair match while also a thrilling one. Don't get me wrong I do understand that some people would always play optimal no matter what but you know I do not enjoy those games. So deleting that option is frustrating, I have lots of comments about my killerplay and mostly it was from survivors who did enjoy these matches as well and +rep me for being fair and fun. So it wasn't just me having fun in those games.
Than we go to the survivor side of things, the matches I did enjoy most were against base nurse because nurse did manage to bring something to the table that almost no other killer does actually. Constant mindgaming outside the normal routes and ways. I could argue that it is kinda probably behaviours own fault, killers either do bring something unique to the table or they fall flat to the loop counterplay of course each with some variation but in the end the 115% is all the same to me. I rarely do see nurse at the moment and I do miss those games as to me this setup was about skill and nothing else.
Why do killers get something new with each dlc, a somewhat little diffrent playstyle while nothing ever changes for survivors? No cds, no micro managing anything nothing just hold goddamn m1 all the ######### time and run your routes. Are they lacking creativity? I dont know why but it seems to me that there needs to be more to survivor than that because i think if you would not be able to end a game in ~5-6min this would lead to healthier gameplay and be more enjoyable for everyone. Killers wouldnt feel as pressured to get to kills and this could solve lots of gameplay issues i guess. Pips do not care how optimal you played in that match.
I do understand where you are coming from, and I would totally agree with you if this game actually had a decent ranking system. Compare this to most games that are played competitive at a pro level, people ( not via streaming) are actually making their living off of this game with tournament price money and being sponsored to play for team x. How long does it take you to reach rank 1? How long does it take other people to get to rank1? With enough free time at your hands you are able to achieve this in a single day after a reset. In other games this takes weeks, months or even years, playing in red ranks only means that you have a higher chance of meeting good players and not that you are actually playing against the best.
Sidenote: I don't have to play optimal in my swf right now ( given we do play most of the time that way) and can still do good that should tell you something about balance right now too if i am able to sandbag friends and troll around while not really doing any harm with that. I am frustrated that the devs seem not even to consider this to be a problem in terms of balance cause most just do goof around. This argument is so dumb it is like saying omega/3/4/5 blink nurse was totally fine balance wise as most nurse players just suck.
I am sorry for putting words in your mouth, i was obviously exaggerating and I do think that you are a smart person so you probably figured that out, i just think that you do not need to say stuff like you speak for x,y,z your own opinion is solid enough to stand on its own arguments without adding questionable weight to it via claims of speaking for others.
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placeholders² 🙈
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873514#Comment_873514
Kill rates released that DEFINITELY show that survivors are NOT FAVORED at red ranks.
People on the forum: "This means nothing. We kept saying that survivors are favored against killers when it comes to ESCAPING. Now that the stats show that we were wrong, it's time to move the entire conversation to something else to prove our point.
Wow.
Favored? Depends how you look at it but kills are not everything in this game. So looking at pips in red ranks killers vs survivors would be interesting to determine favored as well dont you agree?
The stats also show that most killers average a 2k ofc with tendencies but still in the overall average. They show that no side is actually favored not even the mean op spirit. 😂
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I don't understand why they chose to release kill rates in the first place, it leaves you with little info. Also kill rates do include suicides on hook thus they are flawed to begin with.
The interesting thing wouldve been pips.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869727#Comment_869727
Why are you so fixated on this 'guarantee'? The fact is, the only people who seem to care at all about the nurse changes are the same 6 or 7 nicknames posting about nurse every single day, with everyone else either not caring or being happy about the changes. There, guarantee fulfilled. Happy? Even here in this thread it is all the same people. Where is the outrage for poor, little old nurse? Stop sitting in your echo chamber and read what most people said when the nurse changes came. Now, people are tired of seeing this same topic come up again and again. The devs are probably regretting creating such a monster with nurse in the first place, because of how fixated you people are on keeping her overpowered. (Are you going to say I'm speaking for the devs now? Haha)
Arrogant? Stating facts is now arrogance? Yikes. There is a difference between conveying truth based on what you have witnessed and 'speaking for a whole server'. You really need to stop jumping to incredibly incorrect conclusions...
That streamer never said he was going to go addonless. His goal was to win every match as nurse. In some games he used her strongest addons, in many games he didn't. His intent was to prove that no matter what, nurse would win. His kill percentage at the end of the experiment was something like 98 percent. Despite you lying and claiming he used overpowered addons every game, he didn't, yet he still managed to win handily every single match against red rank survivors (just because you couldn't do what he could do doesn't mean nurse was balanced). The big, bad red rank survivors who can end games in less than 5 minutes. That is why people are content with these nurse changes. Her basekit allowed such domination to be possible. In a multiplayer game, one side should not be able to win so easily. You claim you aren't having fun. I can't speak for the nurses you faced, but over here on this server, nurse players were absolutely dominant. Yes, I can safely say that the vast majority of players are happy with these changes here.
Also, the difference between his nurse and your SWF is he proved he could do that every game, no matter what. Your SWF, if you faced killers who actually used strong addons and played optimally, wouldn't have nearly as much success as you do now. You can't even deny that. And the only way your group would have a chance of beating him was if a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka came up.
Do you know what a snowball is? The first generator I checked (in the corner of a map with no way to escape without going through me) in that nurse game had 2 people spawn beside each other. If you are aware what nurse is capable of (yes, even now), you would be aware of how fast you can still down 2 people if you time your blinks correctly. 2 people going down in such short time at the beginning of the match easily creates a snowball. Are you sure you've played nurse? I don't even play her and I can tell you this..
Don't even know what you are saying in the second to last paragraph.
Even with as often as you mention your SWF, it is clear you have a nurse main bias. You mention fun, as if expecting to elicit some sort of response from the commenters here. Fun? You mean the thing survivors had when playing against nurses in red ranks 25 percent of their games? A game where you have to wait a very short amount of time at the end of your missed double blink (aim better next time) on a whole is much more fun for everyone involved than the travesty of game balance that we were experiencing with old nurse.
Nurse is still really strong in the right hands. Instead of asking for nurse to be an easy win again, maybe try adapting to the new situation and finding fun that way. Or...don't, and go play spirit. That's what many of the other nurses who couldn't handle the thought of being defeated did.
If you speak with a nasty tone, expect nastiness in return. I've been civil, be thankful for that. Try not to get this thread closed like the last one.
Why do you even give a guarantee out? Don't come at me for asking you about it when you write it.
You should read more, there has been alot of feedback from nurseplayers and survivors who actually do miss old nurse because these people like me share the feeling that old addonless nurse was the best killer there was with just the right intensity. You are the one sitting in the echochamber, this very forum is proof that not all people are happy with it. You want more? Go to steam there is enough there too. I don't spend alot of time on reddit but I imagine that there are people with this feeling as well.
So for the future when you talk about facts, you might want to get them right instead of confusing your opinion with facts and believing that your opinion is shared by most people. This is where you totally make you unbelievable, you don't speak for yourself, you try to speak for others like your statement about the korean server. Do you mind telling me does japan share a server with korea? If so there even was a person from japan giving feedback to the changes, ptb section. Guess what he didn't agree with it and probably is one of those outside of 99+% eh?
I don't get your logic, why does there have to be outrage? People make comments and statements. I see the community split around it, some share your opinion and do actually like the changes and some don't. Also the rework has been overshadowed by the "nerf" to survivors instaheal, such nerf much wow, having protection against exposed and instadowns. Not everybody is as passionate about every subject, pretending that nothing has been said is again not true just because you missed it.
No it is not people who are tired, it is you who is tired. Why you always have to hide behind other people and try to give your statements more weight?
Blablalbla i speak for the entire asian continent, we are all tired of the this topic.Now here is a suggestion for you, don't participate in the topic when you are so tired of it instead of going into the topic and throwing around insults and telling people to shut up and git gud. I mean why do you even read it, bother to respond and so on when you are so tired of it?
He wanted to proof that nurse always wins no matter what, so why not make it the most challenging and go without addons that is literally the point of"no matter what" isn't it? Sorry I don't get that logic, equipping broken ######### and say hey i can always win was what everybody agreed upon. So proof for nurse being broken wouldve been the same challenge without any addons but he wouldve never been able to pull that off and that is why he chose to play the broken addons in the first place. I don't lie about it i only saw him play those addons. I have to admit I didn't see the entire experiment because I was bored pretty quickly, broken addons and survivors who try to play against him who didn't bring items. So yeah maybe he switched it up.
No I am not going to say you are speaking for the devs, you didn't claim it yet so why would I say that? Because you made actually an assumption on their feelings about nurse? Nah.
Diffrence between him/my squad is that we do not try to proof anything or even stream. I just thought, hey keeping track of things could be interesting. We do face our moris, beads and so on. Do you actually believe that we somehow do have only killers that play vanilla style? I don't think it makes much sense to argue about hypothesis, you think we only have a chance there fine I disagree. We will probably never know so best to avoid that part.
Big diffrence is also that I prefer slight balance adjustments instead of bringing the hammer like the impact of nurse is felt in addition with servers.
Conclusions from those (the stats) are a whole diffrent thing. For example I as a player do not feel able to play solo survivor mostly due to the fact that I can not stand the stupidity of some randoms (do not feel offended if you play solo survivor, i know there are very good ones out there too). I just do not want to be bothered by that because I literally wonder how these people managed up in red ranks. This is something that you will find in various posts about survivors, reason number one to die is not the killer but instead the dumb teammate. Dominance can have several reasons maybe it was also due to some people simply not belonging where they are ,being boosted or do you deny that these people exist?
Yeah I know what a snowball is but it is strange isn't it? They heard you coming, you need 4 hits and yet somehow they went down there right at the beginning that would be the part what I said earlier, one or both of them made a huge mistake.
Also do you really like these changes? Before you answer understand that I mean the addons and what they offer when you have stuff like the new freddy in the game. I find them damn boring to be honest, a part of my frustration comes from that. Do you enjoy making people scream, being able to blink to where you came from or blink forward while there are obvious filler addons with the meme addons, reduce lunge, reduce range. Also why is there still the bug where she is stuck in a loop of breathings while charging blink until she is letting go? They should've fixed that at least.
I think maybe why I do not have fun is due to the fact that with old nurse, when being good with her, you didn't need to play optimal. That kinda was the premise for me, get good with that killer and you can play how you like. Now there is this killer that is still strong but is not fun due to being restricted to play optimal.
Don't get me wrong this is not a pissing contest and it is a good thing that people have diffrent opinions. Everybody nodding and agreeing to everything would be the equivalent of sheep.
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Thanks alot to the both of you!
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Didn't they change the dates?
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@Omans said:
@Endstille This game's population is much bigger than your oh-so-amazing SWF team. That little bubble you've created for yourself, and the hive of nurse mains on these forums are the extent of people unhappy with her changes.
I play on the Korean server. I don't even think I'm exaggerating when I say that something like 99+ percent of players on that server are happy with the nurse changes. It was a generally accepted truth there that nurse was broken. The most popular streamer in Korea only played her once a day because any more would be too hard on the survivors. But his viewers always asked to see nurse to see how broken a killer she was (full addons, no addons, whatever addons, it didn't matter). I've already mentioned his name many times that you've seen. You either haven't watched his nurse play (you can learn a lot) or are ignoring it because you don't want to accept the possibility that maybe it's not everyone else that's wrong, it's you....
The rest of your character assassination attempt was a bit hard to follow so I'll just let it be. Next time link my name correctly though, so I can see you've said something! Wouldn't want to miss such heart-felt words!
If you don't find nurse fun anymore, don't play her. You aren't getting old nurse back. For someone who claims to be so good at this game, always escaping with your tremendous SWF (that tournament game against the leatherface on Yamaoka looked SOOOOOO hard, very well played!!), you sure don’t have a good concept of balance.
Many people think she is weak, when people with any knowledge of this game at the highest level know that she is still either at the same level as spirit or very close.
Really, this whole nurse debate just boils down to 2 points: Is she still strong and capable of victory in any game? Yes.
Is she 'fun'? I never found her fun. She gave easy victories. Now I've started playing her again. So maybe to you she isn't fun anymore, but I'm quite enjoying her now that she isn't so overbearing.
So what happened to the guarantee of yours? All of a sudden no longer mentioning it and ofc you now speak for 99% of the korean server, excuse me, 99+% yeah i totally believe that (NOT). Sorry I have not seen a single freaking person with this amount of arrogance, not a single streamer here would even dare to say such stuff. Imagine coming to a forum stating, yeah i speak for 99+% of server x. 🤣 LuL
Please stop with the stories of your korean streamer, I remember he did an experiment to proof how op nurse was. The funfact was that he only did succeed in it with the most broken addon combinations, not proofing that nurse is broken but delivering proof that the addons were broken which again nurse players agreed upon and thus also welcomed the announced change by bhvr. Funny was also that in the experiment itself, survivors didn't even bring items all the time, a time where instaheals were a thing and all.
Same hilarious stuff that otz claims when he says this swf brought everything at their disposal and you see in the endscreen, a yellow medkit and a yellow toolbox much wow. Kinda strange for people who wanted to v him.
Mind to explain that leatherface yamoaka? Literally have no idea what you talk about.
Character assassination what? Maybe you shouldn't tell obvious lies so we can actually believe you? Sorry i didn't write a story about survivors playing perfect making no mistakes and yet chases end super quick! ez pz 4k. 🤣 Like how did you believe that this story made any sense?
Like try to stick to the truth for once, I literally said the percentages of 4 people not a single was 100% yet you ofc make it to always. See why I do not see you as credible person when you knowingly change statements of me posted a page before of this? When you make claims, stuff that you can not back up in any kind or way.
Like I already said, it has nothing to do with weakness of nurse, it is about fun. I know you love staring at the ground or watching people run away others do not. Maybe change your attitude and not try to throw around your insults about skill instead try to understand what people wrote.
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Appreciate your comment, all good.
I used my swf as example to show that proof based upon a single game is not something that should be considered to validate something as good or bad. So I used this as an extreme conclusion like see we have this escape rate in the range of so and so that must mean using the logic he used nerf all survivors in the ground.
I find both statements (with the diffrence mine not actually being serious) flawed due to the proof provided. This is why I keep track throughout this season and several other seasons to see where we end up in total.
You know the problem with "good" as far as I recall what the nurse players actually do criticise is the fun factor of the nurse. This has been posted over and over again that the change to the basekit is not fun to play, good is taking out of the equation. That was never what the feedback from the players was about, can you still 4k? Yes, do you feel powerless? No. Do you have fun when you 4k? No. This right there is the most complained about.
So why is it not longer fun as nurse? This has nothing to do with the addons of 3+ blinks / omega as stated most people agree this needed to go. So saying yeah you don't get ez 4k with omega anymore is completely missing the point that people criticise. Nurse used to be a pretty mobile killer even tho she always had a very low movementspeed, but you could blink. Nurse right now actually has a little less map pressure than any other 115% killer (basekit).
This leads to the biggest problem, why play nurse? Nurse had the premise of learning a killer that requires mechanical skill, people devoted to it and got good, very good not all but some. The best ones would probably not use broken addons because they did not want to and dont need them.
Now? You don't have any payoff for a killer that requires mechanical skill compared to other killers. There isn't enough of a benefit to be good with nurse anymore. So yeah why play nurse and give yourself a hard time due to every mistake being punished more severe than with any other killer.
Hope that clears things up a bit more.
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Meh why not.
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Maybe you should try to comprehend what I actually said. But I will skip some passive-agressive comment about your school education.
Omans did say that he can guarantee that the majority of people are fine with the changes that is literally what he wrote, check his post and check my quote of it.
"It's frustrating seeing the same nurse mains make post after post after post about the nurse changes when I can guarantee the vast majority of people are fine with them."Furthermore I never did say anything about having an impact on statistics with my swf. I gave an example as to why doubt his entire story in which he claimed
I played a game with her yesterday at rank 1. 4k on farm map. The only mistake the survivors made was 2 of them spawning next to each other.Sorry but if you actually believe that the survivors did play perfect (remember the only mistake in the entire game was spawning next to each other [which is something they do not have any influence on without playing an offering]) and chases end super quickly than they sure as hell did not play without mistakes and instead did alot of them. His story doesn't add up at all since he 4ked them. Yeah sure I am gonna wait for the video, really wanna enjoy those perfect survivors that go down so quickly in chases yet play without mistakes.
The actually sad part about all of that is that
- I have to post this again in hopes you might be able to understand
- People like Omans completely ignore the feedback from people
- People like him take a single game as proof for anything
- people like him equal fun=power
- are unable to comprehend what the nurse players actually said
- reduce feedback of nurseplayers to some strawman about Omega/5 Blink
When in reality most nurse players (the ones on this forum) actually agreed that omega/3;4;5-Blinks needed to go.
I challenge you, go through these forums and find me the outraged nurse mains that those addons are gone, i didn't read that and if actually somebody said that he wants it back even these evil nurse mains would explain to him that this needed to go and why it was op.
So these evil nurse mains that already played her with the basekit back when all this broken stuff existed, now get told, hahaha git gud you n00b, adapt boy, you just want omega/3;4;5 blinks back.
That is the way that @Omans argues on the forums, the way that alot of people do to ignore actually constructive criticism another did this this really classic to when asking if people are on crack (shows how mature you are). Oh and btw before you bring it up one more time, no to 4k with a nurse was never the issue, not now and especially not in the past but for people who are still not able to understand what was said after literally daily posts about it, it seems useless to explain it again.
Sidenote: This at least from my understanding and how I see the matter at hand, I don't want to speak for other people.
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@Omans said:
It's frustrating seeing the same nurse mains make post after post after post about the nurse changes when I can guarantee the vast majority of people are fine with them.
I played a game with her yesterday at rank 1. 4k on farm map. The only mistake the survivors made was 2 of them spawning next to each other. Nurse can still end chases SUPER fast. She still is very strong. She is just now harder to play. Just adapt. Stop making posts. Practice more instead. Or claim that she is no fun and throw her away because you can't 4k on a whim anymore.
Okay how do you gurantee that? What will you do if the majority isn't? So please explain i am very curious to see that. So go ahead deliver proof and fullfill your gurantee.
Yes one game in red ranks is proof now. You know what? According to your flawed logic survivors have to be nerfed into the ground because currently we are wooping a 75-90% escape rate in my swf (this is average for each of the 4 of us).
Imagine to be so lul to jump to conclusions from a single game against survivors who might be potatoes for all we know, you honestly want to tell me they didn't make a single mistake? I doubt it upload the video of that game, you tell stories that are simply not true at all. I mostly play survivor you know and everytime I see a friend of mine play with randoms who last 20seconds or shorter in a chase with a nurse i know and see that they suck donkeyballs. How is it me and the people I chose to play with can last longer in a chase and run that killer around? Because bad nurse ofc that will be the point right?
As for your gurantee:
@Salty_Pearl said:
I'm interested to see everyone's thoughts on Nurse's rework. If you would like to answer my poll I would really appreciate it!
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScTdvrt-AfeaADn4agdt0T8nDif5sDvIaWDN8s_R4F0XA5h4Q/viewform
Once there's a decent amount of responses I'll post the answers!
The results are in!
out of 18 participants:
- 66% of them played both Killer and Survivor
- 94.5% played as Nurse both Pre and Post rework
- 83% thought that Nurse Pre-rework was powerful but balanced (Note: many people thought that her basekit didn't need to be changed) While 16.7% thought that she was OP
- 44% believe that she is balanced after her rework while 50.2% believe that she is weak/underpowered. Some players who think that she is balanced and the players who think that she is weak say that she is very unfun to play as now.
- 55.5% agreed that they would've liked to see the Nurse get nerfs to her fatigue and/or her vision during her blinks.
- 22.2% thought that her addons needed changes.
- 60% thought that the Nurse should get reverted
- 40% believed that she should stay the way she is.
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@Galklife said:
and final answer is 7
im all about DC penaltys but lets make it equal so killer will be punished for dodging lobby as well
because its strictly unfair (at least now survs dont have to start looking for new lobby because some killer doesnt have balls to play vs 1 Flashlight)
@PistolTimb "nobody should go against 4SWF" but jokes on you it wasnt 4SWF but we still were dodged 7 times, so tell me your argument one more time. so in your opinion killer can do whatever he wants while seeing items (Because of change couple months ago now he cant tell about SWF unless he check profiles which i dont know why it is a thing) but maybe you assume every 4 survs are 4 men SWF
"Thiccums McGee, Claudia and David the Hunk are common choices for cringey toxic swfs." maybe count every single surv as toxic? because every single one can have flashlight to hold?
Ah okay so I found a match to play, wait in lobby, my friends ask if we can go play and I have to say no no no I need to play otherwise I get punished? Somebody rings the door, be punished for either being afk/bot farming or leave and be punished as well?
Can you ######### stop to act as if survivors/killers are diffrent players? Nobody should be punished for leaving a lobby before the game has started. This is the worst idea ever.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyvNTjj2DEA
Math isn't your thing so this song is made for you.