Ascended4Head
Ascended4Head
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@Mineguy said:
Nope I mean it like it stands here. The survivors are ruining the game not only for killers but also for other survivors and here is why.
The queue is getting worst every day. Yeah you could say it's because the game is getting older but that's not the reason.
The reason is the amount of players that play killer anymore and well its going down. Survivors are using in red ranks only the biggest clutch combos to win but then mock the killers when they are using noed or ruin + undying.
Survivors are complaining about anything when one thing is not in there favor or they can't bully the killer the whole round.
And no, I'm not a killer Main. I would love to but I want to play for fun and not to get angry.
I would advise you to look at this forum and you would see by far, that killers cry far more than any survivor. Also, killer queues are extremely fast.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079181#Comment_2079181
As I told you, I am terrible at the game, so no need to PM you. If you're as good as you claim you are, you probably rely too much on your second chance perks and are so used to being in control of chases that you just don't want to face strong killers. Don't worry though, with the Devs track record, you won't face many of them.
"Second chance perks" are pure pseudo-intellectualism. There are perks that increase the chance for survival or extend the chase. Are you saying that survivors aren't allowed to have any perks that benefit them in any way? Are killers the only role that are allowed to have any perks that impact the chase? It's interesting since there truly are no second chance perks in survivor kit. Dead hard is easily baitable except when you use it as an opportunity to get a pallet during chase.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079085#Comment_2079085
Their statistics reveal that Nurse is in dire need of buffs. Does she need to be buffed? Answer honestly.
They only reason killers have a high kill rate is due to the fact that most survivors, including myself, are terrible at the game. Players being bad at the game is no reason to dumb it down. The developers have even stated not to try to make too much out of the statistics that they released.
You're just bad at the game. Thank God you're not a developer, otherwise the game would be dead.
I'm consitently rank 1 survivor. PM me and add me on steam. We'll just do 1v1 killer survivor game.
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@Huge_Bush said:
You must be really bad at survivor since you think they're weak. Survivors that know what they're doing and how to properly work together are the power role in this game. Survivor perks are more powerful than most killer perks, and even the strongest killer perks can be disabled by just cleansing totems.
You complain about killers crying about DS, what about all the survivors crying about Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, BBQ, NOED, Tunneling and Camping. Fact of the matter is that both sides equally complain about things. It's not just isolated to one side, and you believing it to be one sided shows you don't play killer and have no idea how it is more difficult than playing survivor.
Everything that happened to survivor needed to happen. If it didn't the game would have died several years ago from the lack of killers. Survivor game play hasn't changed much. Maps are still designed to give the survivors every advantage in a chase. 3 gens can pop before the killer gets one hook. You still have perks to help speed up gen repairs along with tool boxes, which are still very useful if you're honest.
Also, killers had their fair share of nerfs. Ruin, Pop, Undying, Hillybilly, Nurse, Spirit (who will probably get another nerf with all the complaints), Freddy who is on the chopping block, and plenty more.
The game in the current state is the most balanced it's ever been.
Based on what statistics are survivor the "power role" in this game? Which factually evidence do you have to back up your argument? I'm going by statistics they released that show the game is killer sided. I don't know how you can look at a 68 percent kill rate at red ranks and say "the game is survivor sided". That's not based in reality.
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This is the classic. "Can't tell if someone actually thinks the 100's of nerfs to survivor actually made the gameplay trashy to play as survivor". That's been the state of this forum for the last 2 years now. It's why survivor gameplay is in the toilet. Because you can't have a differing opinion than "HUrr durr survivors are rullly bud. Killur underpuwered. Moost NURF SURVIVOR MOAR". It's an echo chamber. This forum doesn't live in stat based reality. It lives in the realm of 4k at any cost.
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@Seraphor said:
Maybe you just suck as survivor?
Most survivors I face seem to enjoy teabagging and flicking their flashlights a helluva lot, mainly in the exit gates.
Well I would make the inverse argument - that you are just a trash killer. Since the majority of killers had a greater than 68 percent kill rate at the red ranks, TEN NERF PATCHES AGO. The game is heavily killer sided just based on statistics. I would love for them to release the current statistics of kill rates now, after the huge movement nerf and the continuation of making survivor gameplay just be a 4k power fantasy.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680517#Comment_1680517
And now you show your true colors. You are an entitled survivor main that doesn't actually care about balance.
I'm a nurse main with 1k hours and constantly talk about how I want nurse nerfed because objectively she is too strong.
I also want moris fixed because they objectively break the game. If you can't see how keys do that then nothing I say will change your mind.
The only entitlement I ever see is the never ending forum posts about how every survivor kit needs to be nerfed. And people were very successful in lobbying that. The survivor experience continues to degrade every single patch. I'd love for them to bring out kill ratios at this point, because they were about 70 percent last year.
I don't know about "true colors". What you feel is "balanced" isn't what I feel is "balanced".
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680509#Comment_1680509
You need to stop thinking of the game as a 1v1 and realize it's a 1v4
Tunneling is not viable because you lose. Sure you probably kill that 1 survivor. But now you lose and depip.
Dodging is a terrible argument and you know it is. Again. I bring up what I said before. If something is balanced because it can be dodged why not have an item that just instantly completes all 5 gens. I mean. If you see it just dodge right?
Lastly. I wasn't comparing them. Stop straw manning. I'm saying that prevalence is not a good argument for balance. Because what if there was an item that existed that instantly won the survivor team the game and gave them 32k bloodpoints but it was so rare it only shows up on 1% of games. Is that fair? Is that balanced? Is it healthy? No. It's not.
Now you're just being hyperbolic. Nobody said the game is "1v1" - I never made that argument. However, what I did was give you a very valid way to get a key out of your game, which is tunneling the survivor off hook or bringing in franklins demise. Franklins is now a very strong perk because it could just completely delete the key from the game and it is very hard to locate items on the ground now because of the artifacts on the map and the size of keys.
If you want to talk about "fair and balanced" lets start first at a killer who can teleport all across the map after a hook and then insta regress a gen by 25 percent or that could drop infinite slow down puddles around a single loops. Or maybe a killer that you can't interact with because she is able to become invisible and just locate you based on sound, haha mindgames.
Still, this isn't a discussion about that, it's about key. I gave you way to counter key that I feel are easy, you don't. I disagree with your assessment and you disagree with mine. That's going to happen in grown up world.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680487#Comment_1680487
Prevalence is a bad argument. They unbalance the game. Point blank. I can also say that iridescent head huntress is pretty rare too but I'd bet you agree that it should be nerfed
My argument wasn't only based on prevalence. That was part of the argument. My argument was based on gameplay interaction, having hope that you could still escape, and that keys are very easily counterable through killer behavior. Behavior such as tunneling, franklins demise (which saw a really big buff), and dodging lobbies.
I got into a game with a iredescent head huntress today and I didn't cry about it or think it was unfair. She needs to devote 2 add-ons just to be able to make them even viable, which then allows her windup and reload speed to be base level, which makes her very loopable.
Still, I don't know how you could compare an insta-down to an escape method, when at least 1-2 survivors and 4 gens have to be down before key even becomes a little viable. This gives the killer plenty of time to devise a method to get the key out of the game or kill the survivor. This is even if you don't decide to use any of the other methods I stated before.
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@Stinde said:
You lost all credibility by insulting both console and killer playerbases, good job, if this even had any.
Another dynamic into the game.. Yes, a negative one just like moris.
I'm not too worried about "credibility" on this forum. What I'm worried about is how survivor gameplay continues to be nerfed so there is a very limited set of ways to play or interact with the game. The different interaction is now dependent on what killer you are going against. This makes it very boring when I play killer because you are not getting any type of different interaction from survivors, their skills sets and perks have been nerfed into oblivion and all perks are now memes, so besides the power, all games feel the same. This is awful.
In regards to console vegetables, it's absolutely awful. Very rarely do I see someone that plays on console loop around an object more than once. I don't know if it's an FPS problem or the skills just haven't been sharpened the same way PC survivors have. My last game today, I got into a game with 2 console players running no mither. haha memes.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/197896/keys-bring-hope-into-dbd-games
Against average survivors? Sure.
But they aren't balanced at top level play. If you "put on franklin's and tunnel the key holder" what happens? You lose. Because the other survivors slam gens. Keys make it so you can't lose (as a team) just as moris do the same. Both need to be fixed because they both tip the scales too far in favor of one side.
I get to rank 1 survivor and about rank 4-6 killer every single season. I'll start making sure to take photos of my end games to show you that keys are not that prevalent in my games, at least. What would you say the percentage of games you play, you have survivor bringing keys into your games. I played about 12 games today and I didn't see one key at rank 4-5. Over the last few weeks, I don't think I've seen one survivor bring a single key into the game.
To say that keys are some sort of epidemic in DbD is to weave a false narrative and to pad out 4k rates for the power fantasy, which about sums up this forum and the mods attitudes.
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@USELESS said:
Self explanatory.
Just look at the killer buff and survivor nerf list over the last two years. It's pretty self explanatory. I would make the argument that they no longer care about the survivor experience. They stopped caring what is and is not fun to play against. Or what intelligent map design is.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1369765#Comment_1369765
Yes I do..because going through walls is nothing if it's too slow to hit..and the attack itself is very narrow so..not sure what you think your seeing but the reality is very different..its the slowest projectile in dbd..has just as long a windup overall as huntress at least and can most certainly not chain attacks together after firing..theres a long cd after a shot..in essence..you dont seem to know how the power works..I take it you've never been at the controls yourself
With huntress you have and indication of when she is going to throw a hatchet at you. You don't have the same indication when it comes to pyramid head. One power blends into the other one.
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1369809#Comment_1369809
And a survivor with matching IQ when it comes to the shack, a hook or an exit gate, will just crouch walk, causing the effects of rites of judgement to be to be null.
As for windows, this is like Trapper, Freddy and Hag. They're strategic spots which benefit their power.
Yet again, you may not use it within a certain proximity of exit gates and hooks.
Going to just bring up the fact you called it BBQ and Cheater. Why? It rewards you for doing your objective. It's like calling Adrenaline an overpowered perk (which it is not).
Going back to the point,it counters other perks I often finding myself using such as Devour Hope or Dying Light.
If the killer gets you into a 3 gen, regardless of where he puts you, if it be the a hook or a cage, he will be in a highly advantageous position due to you and your teams lack of awareness.
All of this is subjective, for example, I really struggle playing against Wraith, yet most find him a weak and easy killer.
Even if you crouch walk into the shack, you just can't take the extra time to crouch walk out of the shack. This leads to an extremely easy chain kill most of the time, counteracting all perks.
You can literally say "x perk rewards y for doing z". You can literally say that about any perk.
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@Thatbrownmonster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1369815#Comment_1369815
everything you said is wrong
Also you didn't adress the rest of what I said
Nurse might give you some distance while recharging but she can still down you easily
You will have to sooner or later vault a palelt against a huntress, thats where she hits you
Sure let me know what I said was wrong? That nurse wasn't nerfed? That you don't have time now to put distance in between yourself and nurse to break line of sight? That huntress has wind up? That she's very weak around certain loops? These are just facts, man. It's very telling that you didn't specifically call out anything I said as "wrong" but just went with your feelings.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The OP's name is literally Ascended4Head. You're all taking the bait.
I'm so tired of the brain dead "this doesn't agree with the very biased narrative of this forum which has been created by the mods and the abuse anyone receives if they don't agree that this game is survivor sided. So you must be a troll!". That's a really smart take, man. Especially since I'm debating with examples.
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@Thatbrownmonster said:
"free perk that is territorial imperative for every hook and it doesn't even have a limit"
You do know that you can't use that next to hooks right? Also you can counter that like the hag by crouch walking over it, hag can teleport to you, pyramid head can't
"His range power is also the most broken of all the range powers"
Is nurse and the huntress fine then? He is pretty use to dodge, he also gives a warning of where his power is landing
I can agree regarding the new map that is hard to find gens, also the fact that there are 4 staircases and 2 of them depend of the killer breaking a wall
The game is a better state, but swfs still ruin the exprience by gen rushing as much as possible
Nurse has been nerfed and you have an opportunity to put distance while she is recharging her power. It is also balanced because of her lowest movement speed among all killers.
Huntress has an audible queue when she is fully wound up, she is very weak around some loops, you can put an object between you and the huntress because she can not throw through solid objects.
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@Cheers said:
As someone who plays both sides at rank 1 (not including right after reset) this killer, if anything, he is weak.
I'll start off by bringing up your first point that the killer gets a free territorial imperative with rites of judgement. This makes...little to no sense. Survivors have to avoid his rites of judgement if they don't want to scream, which unless you are in a chase, they are extremely easy to avoid. Additionally, they can't be placed within a close proximity of things survivors have to go near, which are generators, exit gates, and from what I think you mean by territorial imperative, hooks.
Your second point is that he counters alot of survivor perks. While yes, this is true, he also negates alot of killer perks that are related to hooks if he decides to cage someone. And for Pyramid to cage someone, they have to avoid his rites of judgement, and bringing up my earlier point, unless you are in a chase, you shouldn't be running into his rites of judgement.
Next of all, his punishment of the damned is the easiest to dodge. Unlike Deathslinger where you have to have above average reaction time to even have a chance of dodging his attack, with Pyramid Head it gives you enough time to react. Yes it goes through structures, but it's clearly shown where the damage will be dealt. Additionally, there are very few positions in which you have no chance to dodge it. And if you think the killer is going to use it, just fake the pallet drop. The killer will use his ability, miss and then proceed to have a 3.25 second stun.
The map, like I could've just said about the killer, people need to adapt to. The map hasn't even been out for a week, and you'll learn generator and loop spawns as time goes on.
Finally, if you are really going to chat about how killers are crying, then I suggest you do the same yourself.
For your first point you completely forget about killer shack and basement. Any Pyramid with above a 20IQ puts down rite at the window and both exit gates. All it takes is a small amount. This means you are being warned at any range when a survivor enters the killer shack for a hook save. You may not be able to do it a certain distant from gens, but there is no issue making a circle around a hook, thereby being able to tunnel and counteract any type of D-Strike by just sending them to the cage right off the ground.
The only perk that it counters in regards to killer is BBQ and Cheater. Which doesn't matter because you are getting a very nice tradeoff in the form of countering all survivor perks, not having to pick up the survivor, and potentially having them go to a distant place, away from gens - this is especially beneficial if you are doing a 3 gen strat.
Your third point, is all subjective. Like my point about it being harder to dodge. However, his attacks can go through any object, unlike death slinger. I don't even like to compare to death slinger since deathslinger is another smooth brained anti-chase killer that is extremely easy to play. He might not have extreme map pressure, but he can shut down any chase easily and is extremely effective around hooks and very powerful with 3 gen strats.
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@immortalls96 said:
They arnt garunteed..he has possibly the weakest projectile attack in dbd..it can be dodged on reaction and dead harded with ease..if anything it needs improvement as it's a bit too easy
He has the strongest "projectile attack" in the game. It can go through anything and he can chain it with his regular attack extremely quickly. There is also very little time to react to his projectile and it ha a wide radius. Compare this to somebody like huntress. She has an audio queue when she is fully wound up, she is very weak at some loops but very strong in the open or around hooks, and her speed is slowed when she winds up. She is very balanced as a range killer.
So you think Pyramid heads ranged power is too weak? LOL
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
Or you can like....dodge.....like 90% of the other survivors facing him right now having 0 issues dodging when he has a gigantic wind up. If you still don't know how to look behind you during chases I can see having a problem with his ranged attack. But you not being able to run properly is another issue entirely outside of your problems with pyramid head....
Post some of your gameplay dodging. I'd love to see it. I want to be good, like you.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1284771#Comment_1284771
Well the teleport does have a big cooldown...if people stay awake. He has an add-on that boosts his TP cooldown the more people that are asleep, giving you even more reason to wake up. Pop Goes The Weasel is an issue, yes, especially on him, but any good team will be working on multiple generators and after he leaves the area you can continue progress, 25% can be recovered fairly quickly when you're allowed to continue progress. If he's not letting you do the generator, other generators should be getting pressured. I play Freddy with a mix of other Killers but I don't run any slowdowns on him whatsoever, I don't think he needs them at all and it opens the way for more unique builds, but lots of Killers like being "optimal" when they don't really need to be.
The cool down is not "big". He can AT LEAST use it after every single hook. Which is really all he needs to insta teleport to a gen all the way across a map and kick it for regression of 25 percent.
I also always love the "any God team in this game can do this or that". That's not the way the game is though. You don't base balance on some type of navy seal SWF team that is no where near the norm.
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@Nurgling7 said:
Accept that he is a strong killer and adapt to his playstyle?
Honestly, the claims that he is boring are bullshit.
"Oh, all he does is spam snares."
I'm sorry that somehow messes up your brilliant, intuitive plan to juke him... Oh wait, no, you were just going to run in damn circles around the pallet. Just like the rest of the killer roster.
Give me a break. Who is the boring player, really?
How do you adapt to wallhacks with teleportation? The issue is that he can apply extreme pressure and reduce gens by 25 percent after each hook, almost instantly. There is not thought or good play to Freddy. His teleportation needs to either have a longer cool down or there needs to be a greater penalty for using it.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1241518#Comment_1241518
I think you never had to deal with data really. BHVR mentioned often enough that there is a lot of data influencing these stats and that they stopped posting stats because "people" tend to do the mastermind interpretations without knowing anything about the background. This data may include selfkills for example, and we all know that this is a common thing. When you would observe your own games, trying to find out if a killer overperforms, would you treat a first minute selfkill resulting in a 4k as a valid input? Probably not. At least you shouldn't or I would need to start to insinuate as well.
And there is way more input we don't know about or just forget to take into account, which should be sorted out. Btw there was a single killer over 70%, not several. Unless you talk about the pure red ranks screenshot. And talking about red ranks, which are quite boosted at the moment. So is the killer side overperforming or is this still a ranking issue? Because mixed teams, which shouldn't be red ranks, are put against a red rank killer, while survivor pipping is fairly easy even with dumb moves, while killers need to maximise chases and hooks as they lose in all emblems, when they make use of insta downs or not getting everyone 3-hooked. Just another side note to why a single number just doesn't explain the world. "Interpreting data" is more than just reading, it is understanding the environment that produced the numbers.
No. Never had to deal with data before. I just have my Masters in SLP. How about you?
This was an overall snapshot of the kill ratio in red ranks for killers. Many killers in red ranks have over a 70 percent kill ratio. It doesn't matter if 2 survivors rush hook at endgame and the killer has NOED. It still is representative of the kill ratio at red ranks.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1241518#Comment_1241518
I get that I posted a wall of text, but I did include that quote.
That aside, you're the one making the claim, not me. You explain what a 70% kill rate is and why it supports your argument.
This is going to be super simple.
Forums Intellectuals "The game is hugely survivor sided. All killers do is get bullied and gen rushed".
Statistics at red ranks show that your team is most likely to lose at least 2-3 survivors a game. I don't know how you can come to the conclusion based on this that it is survivor sided.
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@TheRockstarKnight said:
This is probably more effort than this post is worth, but...
For months anyone with an opinion that this game is not survivor sided has been bashed or banned from posting on here. I see 10x more posts and people getting attacked if they say anything about survivor no longer being fun or issues with the current balance. The mods have really turned this forum into a cesspool of people who have created an alternate reality of the balance of the game. The mods also seem to turn a blind eye to anyone attacking someone who argues for survivor balance. This has obviously created more of an echo chamber.
Well I guess this post is getting closed and you're getting banned. In the mean time, would mind showing literally any evidence to back specific tirade this up? Surely months of this behavior has left you with quite a few examples of it.
4-5 months ago escape ratios were released. Which showed overwhelmingly that this game was killer sided. To my disbelief, people still argued that even though all killers at red ranks have over a 50 percent kill ratio, some over 70 percent, that this game was still survivor sided.
Okay. Since you're so knowledgeable about the stats why don't you tell me what a 70% kill ratio means exactly.
Does Freddy two and a half Survivors most games? Does he 4k 70% of the time? Does he get at least a 2k 70% of the time? Does he 0k 30% of the time?
Through your "balance" you have made this game just awful to play on survivor side. You have taken out the mind games. You've destroyed any type of critical thinking in the chase for killer.
Would you care to explain how exactly mind games and critical thinking have been 'destroyed'? You keep making claims and I keep seeing very few explanations or evidence of why these claims are accurate.
You've released a killer who completely destroys any resemblance of balance in a chase by giving that killer a long range gun.
Again, I'm not asking for 50 games of Deathslinger or anything. Just a description of how he destroys balance will suffice. This is just a flat statement with nary a supporting argument.
This game is overwhelmingly killer sided. To state otherwise is to deny reality.
Same as above.
Why is this game overwhelmingly Killer sided?
Because you say, without explaining how, one Killer destroys chase balance? Because you say, again sans an explanation, that all mind games and critical thinking for Killers are destroyed?
You need a supporting argument to back up your claim.
I keep hearing about how killer got a few balance patches to nurse and ruin. Please. Look at the list that shows survivor nerfs compared to killer nerfs, you'll see that the list is 10x lengthier.
Finally an actual supporting argument.
If something is broken should it just be left untouched because the other side hasn't gotten a nerf lately?
How many nerfs have been doled out is irrelevant to the argument you're making. The quality of the nerfs and of the balance between both sides is more relevant than just the quantity of nerfs.
Let me provide an example.
Say I remove the ability for Killers to injure Survivors with a basic attack. That's just one nerf.
I then halve Survivor heal speeds, increase gen times by 20 seconds, and make Survivors move at 3.5 m/s (down from 4). That's three nerfs.
Obviously Killers are now much weaker than Survivors, despite the fact that they only really received one nerf.
See? The quality is more significant than the quantity.
Expect even more nerfs to survivor in the future. They won't be done until every 10k hour lunchbox is able to 4k with ease.
Once again you're not supporting this statement with any kind of argument. Why should we expect this? What evidence supports this?
Just make sure to leave out the quote where I state they released escape ratios 4-5 months ago that showed all killers had above a 50 percent kill rate at red ranks. 3-4 killers had around a 74 percent kill rate at red ranks. https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1658943116244837815/
How would you interpret that data? If you are going by kill rates, you have to come to conclusion that this game, regarding escape/kill rates, is killer favored. If you don't come to that conclusion, you can't interpret data.
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@Kolonite said:
You do know survivors have been nerfed more because they’re more broken, right? All they need to make killers not steam roll is change moris and NOED. In a solo queue environment the game is 100% killer sided. A barely competent swf with meta perks would likely only lose one team member. Most survivors that play are swfs. That’s why they can’t let killers opt out of swfs. It would kill the game because there aren’t enough solo players.
But survivors aren't broken. Stats released show that even with SWF, killer is still greatly favored. I solo about 50/50. I play with a lot of SWF when I solo. I'm at red ranked. I don't see these games where the killers are getting buried by SWF. I see a lot of stupid SWF teams that get buried.
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@TWiXT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1157793#Comment_1157793
I don't need to when there are plenty of streamers already showcasing "Their dodging skills" vs. Deathslinger. You can look them up on Youtube, or twitch easily enough, but just incase you don't, here's Tru3 doing it:
https://youtu.be/BiW33V7TLqM?t=249
Now you can say that the person playing the Deathslinger in this video is just bad at it, or that Tru3 is just too good, but in actuality, the limitations of the Deathslinger are what's hurting him most in this example. Every time he fires off his shot, Tru3 not only gets a split second chance to dodge, but also has time to gain distance from the killer every time he presses the "Reload" button. Tru3 has a 2 Huge chases against the Deathslinger in which 2 gens are completed before he finally gets hit and downed, despite the fact that he's using No Mither. If he didn't have the No Mither disadvantage, he'd have lead the killer on even longer chases. The Deathslinger even tries to shoot him multiple times, some of which Tru3 Dodges without even looking behind him because of the Deathslingers limited range and need for a precision aim. @Ascended4Head Are you seriously complaining that this is an OP/unfun killer with the plethora of examples from streamers like Tru3 that are in direct opposition to your statement? Or is this just another B8/joke post that I've fallen for, Like many others have already commented?
This is a single match. I don't take single matches as gospel.
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@TWiXT said:
Pros and cons of Deathslinger.
Pros:
Has a ranged weapon
Has a 24m TR
Can Pull survivors out of advantageous spots and loops
Has add-ons to help him secure a hit via lowering his TR, Reloading faster
Quick draw and firing of his weapon
Cons:
Towering height comparable to Plague
4.4ms (110%) Movement Speed
Limited 18m range for weapon
Weapons projectile travels at the same rate as a fully charged huntress's hatchet, leaving room for survivors to dodge it.
Weapon cannot down with ranged attack, Survivors must be reeled in first for the strike
Weapon inflicts Deep Wound Status Effect and Timer upon Chain breaking
Projectile has a very small hitbox which makes it easier to dodge, harder to aim
Striking a Speared survivor puts killer in a slowed down state for the wiping animation
Reloading the weapon takes the same amount of time as the wiping animation and slows the Deathslinger down by the same amount.
Chain break stuns Deathslinger for 4 seconds
Loud Foot Stomps
Loud Weapon giving global noise notification, and Scares crows within his TR giving survivors visible confirmation of his whereabouts.
While his TR and music are smaller and more subtle than say Oni's or Demogorgons, his weapon has a lot of drawbacks, his movement speed is slower than average which gives him less map pressure, and his height makes him very easy to spot, especially on open maps like Blood Lodge, Disturbed Ward, Mothers Dwelling, etc, which makes his approach to get close enough to survivors much more difficult to pull off. The reasons for why many compare him to Huntress and say he's a weaker version of her basically amounts to the fact that Huntress can simply down survivors from any unobstructed range with her hatchets, and the only real disadvantages she has vs. Deathslinger is that she has a wind up time, and a 45 meter humming that alerts survivors to her presence before she reaches them. Whereas Deathslinger has to not only hit survivors with a precision shot, but also has to spend time reeling them in, can't simply down them with his ability which has a much more limited range, and he actually takes much longer to chase and down survivors than Huntress does. With a killer giving survivors this much leeway and counters, I'm actually surprised anyone is complaining about him and demanding nerfs.
Edit: grammar corrections
Do a youtube video of you dodging the harpoon when you are playing ranked mode. I want to learn and better myself. I've yet to see any streamer really dodge it. So maybe you can be famous with this?
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@re5_gamer2263 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/136862/uhhh-why-did-you-nerf-inner-strength
NOOOO. It only countered thanataphobia, sloppy butcher, dying light, coulrophobia, madness tier 3 (could heal before you snapped out), etc.
How is THIS NOT strong?
Then we also need to balance locker grabs to make sure the killer can only grab when fully immersed in a locker. Since grabs routinely happen when the survivor already has both feet out and is starting to run. Then we can talk about counters and balance.
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@DarthRane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873707#Comment_873707
Literally every game I can think of balances towards their top players not towards their average players.
I'd be happy to see what games you know of that DONT balance towards their top players. Cause I can't think of a single one. Not to confuse it balances at the top end that benefitted their average player base
It's an asymmetric game. One persons abilities counters another persons skill. You live and die by map design. There is a certain skill ceiling in DbD, but it's not terribly high. So you can't compare something like Counter Strike to a game like DbD. There are no other games like DbD that are successful or have the player base.
So saying you are going to "balance" towards DbD's "top tier players" doesn't even make sense in this setting. Then let's balance around Scott Junds huntress. We can nerf huntress into the ground now since he regularly 4ks with her and would be considered "top tier".
Survivors and killers don't have access to the same tool set.
Thank you for showing my err in thinking with the statistic issue, but that seems to be where your "big brain" stops.
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@DarthRane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873675#Comment_873675
I want balance around an asymetrical game.
You know the way it's supposed to be. Not how well killers can thrash randos grouped together.
Then what's "balance". I don't know how you balance an assymetric game against "seal team SWF" while trying to keep the game mainstream to increase revenue through DLC and season passes.
You would want base of players to increase your revenue, rather than balancing around a small portion of people that will most likely drive more people way, thereby decreasing your revenue.
You already said you don't care about the average snapshot. So then you "balance" around a small portion of people. Which would then increase the kill ratio even further.
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@DarthRane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873675#Comment_873675
Jesus you need to go back to school 49 percent KILL RATIO means that you have not been averaging a 2k game nor does it mean you are more likely to get a 2k game.
If you WERE more likely to get a 2k then you would be at 51% or higher. AT BEST you could say it's a sign that they are moving CLOSER to actually getting a 2k kill on average
Again by DEFINITION if you're average is anything under50% you are NOT more likely to get a 2k.
You might be CLOSE but until you are ABOVE 50% average then it shows you are more likely to get a 1k than a 2k otherwise you'd actually be at 50% or higher and not anything lower than 49.
And there's was no rounding with the 25% lmfao
1/4 is EXACTLY 25% 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You're right about that. I was arguing to argue. Still, it shows that you are more likely to die at red ranks than survive.
Still though. I don't need to go back to school, I have a successful business and also do the online aspect of my buddies auction company. I can give you my facebook if you want to compare businesses. You do own your own business, right? Since you're much smarter than I.
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@DarthRane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873611#Comment_873611
Lol you can't round statistics like that.
A 48% BY DEFINITION means you are more likely to get a 1 than a 2k because you were actually more likely to get a 2k then you'd be at 51% or higher.
And the bigger the number the harder it is to maintain.
Like wise until you're actually ABOVE 75 aka 75.q or higher you're NOT more likely to get a 3k
Oh and since it's an asymetrical game, I care about how it's balanced towards asymmetrical gameplay with an actual team. Not randos cause randos on the same team are not an accurate representation for how an asymmetrical game is balanced.
Any solid killer SHOULD 9 times out 10 wreck a team of randos
But the statistics don't even show that happening lol.
So then you don't care about the average game. Just "seal team-SWF". So you want balance around the minority rather than the majority.
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@DarthRane said:
Answer to 1: Lol I don't care about average against randos playing together. If you look at at ANY asymmetrical games that's ever came out the randos are almost ALWAYS out classed by the power role cause they have no team work. It's only supposed to be balanced when the tram works TOGETHER. Meaning we should be shooting for a 50 50 win ratio against SFW not nobodies lol.
2 wasn't even a coherrent question.
OK. So then you don't care about averages that are a picture of the overall health of the game. Cool.
And my logic is correct. If there were a 48 percent kill ratio, you are more likely to get a 2k than you are a 1k. Like, I can't believe this.
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@DarthRane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873332#Comment_873332
Clearly YOU don't understand statistics. As you increase the numbers it will continually get closer and closer to 75% percent. But if they aren't getting over 2 kills they will never actually GET to 75%
What? I'm actually dumbfounded by your statement. You accuse me of being stupid and that I don't know statistics, while simultaneously showing that you don't understand statistics.
If a killer has a 74 percent kill ratio, they are on average, more likely to get a 3k than they are a 2k.
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@DarthRane said:
You're an idiot, there was a very obvious and important statistics missing. Matches won against sfw because that's where it actually matters
OK. I'm sorry I'm so stupid. But I want a super smart person like you to answer me these two question.
- ON AVERAGE, if you are a red rank killer, are you favored most of your games?
- If you nerf the all mighty seal team SWF, which according to the forum is 100 percent of games, what do you think is going to happen to those numbers? Are they going to go up or down.
I'm too stupid to know. So can you help me out?
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@Zanely89 said:
The end doesn't justify the means (hope I use this phase correctly).
One can look at the stats and goes "that's it, the stat say that killer get 3K therefore the game is favouring killer". The problem is that the stat is just that, red rank kill got 3k. It doesn't account for survivor suicide on first hook just to spite the killer, doesn't like the map/killer or anything that might not accurately reflect the real situation. Like someone mentioned earlier, there are many players aim to burn through the time and would suicide on hook just to get into next game faster. The new matchmaking that matches the killer based on highest rank of survivor also do not help at all. All these factoring into the stats, it will certainly lead to an inaccurate portrayal of the whole picture, which is exactly why peanits ask us to not draw any conclusion from the stats.
None of what you said matters to the FACT. The FACT that if you queue into a game at red ranks, YOU ARE not FAVORED vs the KILLER. This is just LOGIC. This is basic LOGIC. This is what separates us from a house tomato.
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@Endstille said:
I don't understand why they chose to release kill rates in the first place, it leaves you with little info. Also kill rates do include suicides on hook thus they are flawed to begin with.
The interesting thing wouldve been pips.
Kill rates released that DEFINITELY show that survivors are NOT FAVORED at red ranks.
People on the forum: "This means nothing. We kept saying that survivors are favored against killers when it comes to ESCAPING. Now that the stats show that we were wrong, it's time to move the entire conversation to something else to prove our point.
Wow.
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873460#Comment_873460
A 2k is usually a de-pip at red ranks, a 3k a safe pip. If you want to draw conclusions from the very limited information, then you would have to come to the conclusion that the average killer de-pips at red ranks.
I don't see how this is favouring killers.
We also don't know anything about the winning (pipping) statistics for survivors at red ranks.
So now we are moving the goal posts to "winning" based on pipping? In my three years of playing this game, I have yet to meet anyone in after game chat that said "Wow guys, I didn't win. I 4kd all of you, but I didn't pip : ( sadpandaface"
The majority of the posts on here talk about balance around kill ratios, also. You are debating in bad faith. Also, when I say "favored", I'm obviously talking about kill/escape ratios, not pipping.
You're then twisting my argument. My argument is that the game is killer sided at red ranks because MOST times, MOST of the survivors do not escape. You could most certainly draw this conclusion from the statistics.
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873440#Comment_873440
These statistics lack so many information that I wouldn't draw any conclusions from them.
You could most certainly draw the conclusion that killer is favored at red ranks. I actually can't believe that people are arguing that you can't draw that conclusion.
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I honestly think that it would be near impossible to find a target such as 50 percent kill ratio and then try to hit that, without some major problems that are also introduced. The game is asymmetrical, which means that by it's very nature, there are going to be mechanics in the game that counteract your skill, which leads to frustration for both sides.
However, I just think they went too far with the survivor nerfs and killer buffs. For me, personally, they made it where the game is not much fun with survivor. It feels like progress bar simulator, just waiting to go for a run and then get insta-downed or cheap shotted.
I really wouldn't care if that kill ratio was 100 percent, just as long as what was going on to get that 100 percent kill ratio was fun and interactive. I no longer think they look at both sides of the coin, they've pushed it too far to the killer side and sacrificed alot of fun on the survivor side. I just wish they made survivor more fun to play.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873378#Comment_873378
Then ask yourself, why do people think it is?
I would bet it is because of the toxicity from both sides. In CoD, a loss is just a loss. In DBD, a loss is more than that. You get zero satisfaction AND often get BM'd by the opposing team after the match. That isn't a Survivor thing, I've had PLENTY of Killers do that too.
It needs to stop.
This is a huge problem and I 100 percent agree with you. I rarely play anymore, but when I do, I just skip after game chat. There is very high toxicity in the game, but that's more the human condition than it is the game. I think there is only so much you can do to tamp down on it, but you see that in every game. Where I think DbD stands out is that you have a very prevalent "Us vs Them" mentality. You almost have two separate communities in DbD - killer and survivor.
You also have a very vocal active killer community that started when Marth 88 did his experiment. So you have people that just absolutely hate survivor. You then have extremism where anything less than 4k is not good enough, which then pushes the overton window further and further, where someone saying "I think the game is not killer sided" is met with huge backlash because the reality that has been created in a forum is not the reality of the game. The overton window being pushed also makes it seem where someone still saying something less extreme about the balance of the game, makes that person seem like a moderate.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873370#Comment_873370
Exhauastion perks are fine. Dead Hard works fine for me.
I heavily disagree, however, say you had control of the balancing, what would you change?
Thank you for asking.
I would do rotating events where you have a separate queue. 2 killers vs 8 survivors. Some type of event based around basement.
I would never release another perk that increases the gen time or progress bar simulator for this game. We already have enough to stare at.
I would remove the wallhack aspect of BBQ and Chili.
Billy's chainsaw has a cool down attached to it. So he can't constantly reee reee everywhere. You have to make a tactical decision when to use it.
I would remove legion.
I would decrease head on windup time from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
I would combine kindred/we're going to live forever or kindred/borrowed time.
I would increase density and objects of many dead areas in maps, so there are more opportunities for stealth.
I would remove fake pallets from the game.
I would double the cool-down of freddies teleportation.
That's it. That's what I would do.
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@TragicSolitude said:
There are a lot of factors the numbers can't take into consideration.
The devs may not include matches where someone disconnected, but what about hook suicides? If someone suicides early in the game, the remaining survivors usually fall like dominoes. On top of normal suicides due to not liking the killer or the map, these numbers were taken while The Rift has been going on, and it's common for survivors to finish their challenge and suicide so they can get started on the next challenge.
Also, how many survivors play without the goal of escaping? My friends and I don't play with the goal of escaping. We go in fully intending to die. We can't be the only ones. Playing killer, I've also played against survivors who were absolutely winning and then they threw the game for unknown reasons; they basically put themselves on the hooks, I had little to do with it.
These numbers also aren't split up by platform. Console and PC are mixed together. Maybe that doesn't matter, but maybe it does.
I'm not saying the balance is fine. Survivors need certain buffs so solo survivors can be more coordinated, because coordination is how survivors survive. I think the buff to Kindred is a step in the right direction, though I think it should be base kit rather than relegated to a perk. But that's my opinion and doesn't really matter in this discussion.
The important thing is that the stats don't necessarily mean anything except that people apparently don't find Plague fun to play as. Poor Adiris needs some love.
Right. So that's still a snapshot of the overall balance of the game currently. That's going to be your average experience of a DbD game at red ranks. The average game you go into at red ranks, you are most likely not going to survive. Which brings me to my original argument
THE
GAME
IS
NOT
SURVIVOR
SIDED
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873353#Comment_873353
Clown rounds to a 75% average at red ranks. Should we nerf him? No.
No. And that's where interpretation of statistics would come in. Clown is fine, although I can't stand exhaustion bottles since exhaustion has already been nerfed into the ground and dead hard doesn't work most of the time because of dedicated servers.
With that said, you could still say "Clown is still favored against survivors at red ranks.". Which would be 100 percent true. You can't make the argument that survivor are favored against clown at this rank, generally speaking. Which seems to be the constant battlecry -that this game is survivor sided. Which facts dictate that's just not true.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873342#Comment_873342
Is it a 2K average?
No. It would be closer to an average of 3k. 4ks are possible, which means that 4k's are also in that statistic. I don't know how you look at 74 percent and think that's closer to an average of 50 percent, rather than 75 percent.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/230/KSPIKOCTC8RD.png
The game doesn't exist solely for red rank players which means THIS statistic is what matters most to the devs. According to this statistic NO killer averages 75% / 3 kills per game so I'm not sure what the fuzz is about. Literally all killers are within the aimed 2k range.
Even if we take a look at the red rank statistic only Spirit, Freddy and Hillbilly touch the 75% / 3k average mark. That's NOT "most killers":
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/910/6KD3I8P3L1V9.png
Literally ALL the other killers are between 60% - 74% (Hag only) which is still a 2k...
That sill proves the game is killer sided at red ranks. lol I don't know how you look at that and see a great than 50 percent kill ratio for all killers and think "yea. This game is survivor sided". That defies all logic.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873323#Comment_873323
I would also like to point out, other than Billy, the two that are above the line are the two Killers people have trouble looping.
Looping with pallets is one of the only few defenses in the game. Survivor perks are now mostly nerfed to ground. Survivors live and die based on map design. If you take out all pallets and loops, every killer would have a 100 percent kill rate, regardless of skill.
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@Pulsar said:
@Blueberry said it best.
Also, 74% is still a 2K. That means Freddy is still killing two people on average.
Nurse has a 4X%, meaning she kills one person on average.
Oh, a 2K at Red Ranks is a de-pip, meaning those stats are wrong.
74 percent is closer to a 3k than to a 2k. Which would mean that more matches see a 3k kill rate than a 2k. I don't think you know how to interpret statistics, so anything further would just be a waste of time. Regardless, 74 percent is greater than 26 percent. So statistically speaking, that would make the game killer sided.
Regard
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873289#Comment_873289
"That's right nowhere in my argument did I say "these statistics are everything""
I never said that you said it was everything. You are however drawing conclusions based on that data which is what they said not to do.
"I did make an argument how many perks for survivor are trash tier,"
The same thing can be said for killer perks
"But when it comes to raw data and kill rates, you can't in good faith say that this game is survivor sided"
I'm basing my opinion on many, many hours of rank 1 game play on both sides. That is all we have to go on with how flawed the data we do have is.
"How do you even make an argument that the game is survivor sided when there is a kill rate of 75 percent in game?"
This is drawing conclusions from data that is not take a multitude of factors into account as the devs have said and it shouldn't be taken at face value as you are.
"If you're going to make that argument, then you have to somehow make that argument not using escape/kill ratio."
As the data cannot be used for determining balance alone, all we have to go on is experience. This is why I base my opinions of heavy experience at the highest rank of play as that is as close as you are going to get.
You're coming to the conclusion that the data is flawed based on your own anecdotal evidence. I'm not going to put words in "penits" mouth, but the raw data shows that the kill ratio would make the game killer sided. When I think "killer sided", I think "how many kills on average did the killer have". You can say "well that doesn't mean everything. Maybe such and such a perk is broken", but that still doesn't fundamentally change the reality that the kill rate for most killers is above 70 percent. This data also does not include DC's, so this is data based on tens of thousands of games most likely.
If you're reading research and you see that there is a patient mortality rate of around 75 percent at the four year mark, you could research why that ratio is so high, but it doesn't fundamentally change that there is still a mortality rate of 75 percent at four years. The only thing that could fundamentally change something like that is potential intervention .
Survivors have gotten mostly meme perks over the last 16 months with constant nerfs. I don't know how you could think 16 months ago when the kill ratio was above 50 percent, that constant nerfs to survivor and buffs to killers wouldn't increase the kill rate.