Dreamnomad
Dreamnomad
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@Okuu46 said:
I mean why is it such a big deal?If a killer main goes into a match, up against a 4 man SWF with purple flashlights and toolboxes with gears; and they know he/she is gonna be gen rushed up the arse throughout the majority of the match; and mocked at the exit gates by the survivors towards the end; why should the killer stay around and feel weak, humiliated powerless and powerless by it?
Or when you start a match as a survivor and you get down three times instantly when a match is only 2 mins in? Why should you stick around sometimes?I dont know, i say If you DC; by all means go ahead, your still getting bloodpoints and stuff out of it; just not the person quitting; i just don't see the big issue with it honestly on both sides?
Because you can completely screw the other side over. Sometimes when the killer DC's the survivors don't get the bloodpoints they should have earned or lose their items or lose pips. It's also just extremely rude. When you are playing someone a game of chess would you find it amusing if you were winning and your opponent just flips the board over? You waste everyone's time and all the survivors lose whatever offering they brought.
If you are playing as a survivor and DC it is almost as bad. This game is designed to be a 4 v 1 game. It is very snowball heavy. If one survivor DC at the start then you are denying the killer a BBQ token and you have ruined the chances of the other survivors surviving. I just gave you a lot of reasons why DCing is a big deal. Players who regularly DC deserve to be banned. They ruin the experience for everyone.
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@Tsulan said:
Devs claimed that face camping is not bannable, only to remove it shortly after.
Devs claimed that only 22% of all survivors use SC.
Or that they know that the high kill rate of Freddy originated from survivors disconnecting, only to nerf him because of that high kill rate. They admitted that they went to far with the Freddy nerf, but that was a year ago with no buff.
The list goes on and on.None of those things makes them liars. Don't get me wrong here. I'm a critical thinker. I don't accept every single thing they say as fact. They are human and humans make mistakes. Having listened to a couple of these different videos they have at the very least appeared to try and be honest and transparent. I don't believe they have some secret agenda to screw over their player base. They are bound to get things wrong from time to time. But making an honest mistake is different from intentionally lying.
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@Utna said:
@Dreamnomad said:
@Utna said:
@ZombieGenesis said:
Just because the devs say it in a stream doesn't mean it's the truth.19:9 Stephan Horvath: " This is all true so far."
Louis McLean :" I mean, I'm not planning on telling lies at any point here. I mean I might make some mistakes." At this point we can notice the amusement on Stephan's face. We could almost grasp his thinking: "Man you're so good at this, I could almost believe it !"Any good psychologist might tell that people experiencing guilt ... for telling a lie (for example), are more likely to be the ones to beg people to trust them ("This is ALL true so far").
On a more serious note, I've already explained in another thread why BHRV will never call SWF either cheating, or just a mistake. Because sometimes, it is easier to silence the victims of a bad situation, than actually solving the problem. In these cases, authorities make something become legal ; not because they think it is good, but only because they can't fight it. This is a basic Public Relations strategy, and this kind of pollitics where used way back in history.
So yes Zombie, I too think BHRV can't be trusted on that subject ... I might if it made sense, but the way SWF screw so many perks and game mechanics ... this can't be right.
That's some nice conspiracy theory thinking you have going on there. They seemed rather transparent in their answers to me. They went into a lot of detail about chasing around objects for instance. I see no reason why they would lie about SWF either.
I just gave those reasons in the same post, but I can see how it might not be clear. Please feel free to ask for something more specific for any explanation, otherwhise I'll be obliged to copy paste what I've just said.
Oh I read your post. No need to repaste it. " it is easier to silence the victims of a bad situation" I just find your argument utterly ridiculous. You are literally calling the killer the victim. Stop and think about that for a second. So given a choice whether to believe your rather silly argument that it's a conspiracy theory or that they are telling the truth, I choose to believe they are telling the truth. Usually the simple answer is the correct one.
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Dev video addressed this issue. They didn't "intend" for 360s to be a thing, but they don't dislike it and have no plans to change it.
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@Utna said:
@ZombieGenesis said:
Just because the devs say it in a stream doesn't mean it's the truth.19:9 Stephan Horvath: " This is all true so far."
Louis McLean :" I mean, I'm not planning on telling lies at any point here. I mean I might make some mistakes." At this point we can notice the amusement on Stephan's face. We could almost grasp his thinking: "Man you're so good at this, I could almost believe it !"Any good psychologist might tell that people experiencing guilt ... for telling a lie (for example), are more likely to be the ones to beg people to trust them ("This is ALL true so far").
On a more serious note, I've already explained in another thread why BHRV will never call SWF either cheating, or just a mistake. Because sometimes, it is easier to silence the victims of a bad situation, than actually solving the problem. In these cases, authorities make something become legal ; not because they think it is good, but only because they can't fight it. This is a basic Public Relations strategy, and this kind of pollitics where used way back in history.
So yes Zombie, I too think BHRV can't be trusted on that subject ... I might if it made sense, but the way SWF screw so many perks and game mechanics ... this can't be right.
That's some nice conspiracy theory thinking you have going on there. They seemed rather transparent in their answers to me. They went into a lot of detail about chasing around objects for instance. I see no reason why they would lie about SWF either.
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@Malakir said:
Get informed, the perk as far as I know got needed since gave too much bp and killer switched sides to farm. I might be wrong but as far as I know that's it plus playing mostly a survivor I don't feel that handicapped as you try to make it
Btw if you don't care what other people want to say just don't write anything because you could get the same treatment
I love how you start out your post "get informed" and then immediately follow it up with "as far as I know". If you don't feel handicapped earning bloodpoints as a survivor try the following challenge. Play 20 games as a killer running BBQ. Record the lobby wait time, game time and total bloodpoints earned per match. Then do the same with a survivor running WGLF. Then post the results with the average bloodpoints earned per minute with both. Then come back and tell me how it's fair.
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@Entità said:
@Dreamnomad Not more perks' tiers, but the same rarity system used for items, add-ons and offerings. Your perks shall remain of the upper tier, of course.That is exactly my point. The perks are separated according to rarity and then alphabetically. If some perks ended as ultra rare then that means once you reach the end game all your perks are separated into 3 different categories. Ultra rare, very rare, and rare. That means if I'm trying to find a perk I have to recall which rarity it is adding unnecessary time. It's already annoying trying to remember "Is bamboozle rare or very rare?"
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I honestly hate this idea. I'll tell you why and I'm not trying to sound elitist while doing so. But I have most of my killers with all rank 3 perks unlocked. I find it rather annoying that the perks are separated into 2 tiers since if I'm looking for something alphabetically it is a hassle to try and remember what rarity the perk is. More tiers means finding the perk I actually want is more difficult.
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Where in the video do they talk about SWF? I don't really feel like watching the entire thing.
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@Malakir said:
@Dreamnomad then you know the reasons why killers get more bp on average but you simply dont care. Gotcha then why people should care your opinions?Tbh I see even survivors, even myself sometimes, get more bp compared to killers, but since we are talking on average the reasons they gave you are satisfying you just don't accept that cuz you feel entitled to earn the same. Won't surprise me I you want an equal 1v1 in a 1v4 game like this at this point
I don't care what you care about. The "reasons" for killers getting more bloodpoints are just petty vindictive whining. There is like this stupid wall between killer and survivor mentality. It seems to obstruct reason. It's like anything "they" get diminishes what "we" get. Break down the wall and eventually you'll realize that we're all playing the same game. Most of the time, I play as a killer. But sometimes I do play as a survivor. And when I do, I want my time spent to be worth it. Right now, it feels like I take a huge hit to bloodpoint gain to hang out with friends.
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@BlooBoo said:
Hello,Will people who already got 30/30 on both sides get anything or are we just going to get thrown under the bus?
Thank you.
What exactly do you think you deserve? How exactly are you being "thrown under the bus"? I simply can not understand your logic.
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I'm scared. Someone hold me.
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@Wolf74 said:
All the fake arguments that WGLF would not "give an advantage ingame".
Getting more bloodpoints = getting better items from the bloodweb = being able to bring high quality items into every game (especially because survivor can keep them as long as they survive).I hate every argument made by killers opposed to survivors gaining equal bloodpoints. Every one of those arguments is terrible.
1. Killers deserve more bloodpoints because they have to burn add ons.
2. Survivors deserve less bloodpoints because they have items and can keep them.
3. Blah blah blah blahAll of those arguments are crap. This is the philosophy the game should follow. If I as a player, play equally well as a survivor and a killer then I should be compensated for my time equally. Bloodpoints are bloodpoints. There are no survivor bloodpoints. There are no killer bloodpoints. If I want to earn bloodpoints to improve a survivor then I shouldn't have to play a killer or vise versa.
This game requires 80% of the players in a game to be a survivor. Unless we all want to face ridiculous queue times as a killer then the imbalance of bloodpoints needs to be addressed. Otherwise, every day will be like the mess that this Halloween event has been.
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@MyNamePete said:
@Dreamnomad said:
WGLF should give tokens for more different activities done by survivors, not less. If a survivor wants to see an injured survivor they can just run empathy.yes those 2 would work really good together, but it would leave you with 2 perks to actually use. Either kinda add a tiny empathy in WGLF or you could also nerf BBQ as another option. BBQ has 2 functions and WGLF only has 1 and the farming aspect is a big problem and this could fix that.
If I had a choice between a WGLF perk that was reasonably easy to get tokens with or one that had a half-assed secondary function then I would gladly choose the one that had a reasonable path to getting tokens. WGLF should give tokens for things survivors do to help escape just like BBQ gives tokens to killers for doing things that help kill survivors.
For instance, finishing generators, breaking hooks near carried survivors, pallet stunning the killer, breaking active totems, opening exit gates, etc. Survivors shouldn't get tokens for everything they do, but there should be more paths to gaining tokens than are currently available. So the fact that you want to remove one of the two methods for gaining tokens in exchange for a garbage secondary effect angers me.
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WGLF should give tokens for more different activities done by survivors, not less. If a survivor wants to see an injured survivor they can just run empathy.
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Pretty funny joke.
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Fix the event for survivors and this problem will just vanish.
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@Sinner said:
@Dreamnomad said:
The one thing I'll agree with on flashlights is that they should adjust it so that when the killer is picking up a survivor, you should be able to get the flashlight blind/stun during the pickup animation and not have to wait to land it until the person is all the way picked up. With the faster pick up animation on killers, that is only fair.Pretty much what this guy said. That was how it always worked. It's actually a bug. They fixed it and the killers cried so they reverted teh changes.
When the pick up animation was ridiculously long this made sense. But the pick up animation is so fast now that if the killer gets blinded while picking someone up then it really is their fault.
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I don't think you can really make any judgement about the playerbase during an event like this. There are too many variables in effect.
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This is what survivor hit boxes look like. And yes, it does lead to some very odd hits.
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For a 50/50 killer/survivor your proposed changes are heavily in favor of survivors. For the most part it seems like you just miss "the good old days" as many of your changes are just patch roll backs. I can't say that I agree with your version of "balanced".
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The one thing I'll agree with on flashlights is that they should adjust it so that when the killer is picking up a survivor, you should be able to get the flashlight blind/stun during the pickup animation and not have to wait to land it until the person is all the way picked up. With the faster pick up animation on killers, that is only fair.
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Ah, yeah. I've heard of this. Forcing the killer to be a killer they didn't choose with 0 add ons or perks. Pretty messed up. This is about the only sort of situation where it is okay to leave the game early.
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Take it easy on the cap lock buddy. Few people will bother reading what you have to say.
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For the most part, I've been playing the game like normal. I've had one survivor walk up to an event hook and point at it to let me know he was willing to be hooked. I let him live. If I get down to one or two survivors and they are harvesting a plant, I'll usually let them finish before killing them.
But I hear what you are saying. I had one game as a survivor against a trapper and the trapper put two traps by the last plant. He caught the only other survivor and was camping that survivor so I squeezed between his traps and tried to fill up my vial. He caught me working on the plant with literally 1% left to harvest. He hit me once and I stayed put to try to finish it off, but he hit me again, hooked me and then did the "no" head shake. That triggered me a little bit.
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Unless you are in the killer's terror radius, it isn't considered evading. I don't disagree that there is room for improvement though. If the killer literally never hits you the entire match then I think you deserve iridescent in the evader category.
I'm not really sure what you are complaining about on the killer side though. 3 gen strategy is perfectly viable and generally does well in ranking up. Multiple players escaping by the hatch is a pretty rare event really. If you see someone with a key in the lobby then you could always run Franklin's Demise. The key can be difficult to find if knocked out of a player's hand.
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I've got hillbilly and wraiths minus the weapons. I haven't completely decided what to do with the last 2. I'm leaning toward doctor.
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I've had a bigger issue with this problem as a survivor. All the plants gone or I get killed with the vial almost full. I can't even harvest one whole plant the following game. I've also had several games where my vial is full, but when the match ends I don't get credit. More often than not, I'll get 1 vial per game as a killer.
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@Supernaut said:
Its also quite handy for your daily challenges! No more burning Moris!That's actually a pretty good point. I have stockpiles of mori's so it isn't really an issue for me, but if your options are limited or you want to save your mori this is a good idea.
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There are some decent suggestions, but there are some seriously crazy ones too.
- Survivors starting the match with a reverse bear trap on their head.
- Requiring 3 or more box searches to remove the trap.
- Requiring another survivor to remove the trap after the key is found.
- Requiring 2 or more keys to remove the trap.
- Decrease timer by 30 seconds if a generator is finished.
None of these things are ever going to happen.
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Rancor is just an 'okay' perk. It certainly isn't overpowered or in need of a nerf. For the most part it is outclassed by NOED. As a killer you generally don't want to Mori someone after the generators are finished. It is much better strategy to use a player you catch as bait to get even more kills or bloodpoints. I've dinked around with the perk a few times, but the only time I've ever used the mori effect is when I was trying to get the Spirit adept trophy.
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@Goldengeartwo said:
As a Pig main myself, here are what I consider to be reasonable buffs:-Reverse Bear Traps only reveal the Jigsaw Boxes once it is activated.
-Combat Straps Add-On should be base kit. This add-on is nearly mandatory due to how sluggish she is without it. It's taking up room for another add-on.
-No roar on Ambush.These are the most reasonable suggestions.
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I just use the setting on my TV.
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Very interesting stuff here. I really like the idea of the attack dog and being able to play from the dog's perspective would be fun. I think it's really tricky to balance around though. Obviously the dog would move substantially faster than the killer and having running vaults over windows and pallets is really powerful. I think the thing that actually balances it would be that the killer doesn't move when you are controlling the dog. So when you are chasing the player with the dog, once that timer is up then they have a lot of distance to run or hide. I think once the dog lands an attack it should automatically put the game back in the killers perspective.
As far as the perks go, they should be distinguished as far as what ranks 1-3 do. The problem I have with security is that it is pretty much custom designed for camping. That isn't something that should really be encouraged imho. I think maybe going the opposite route would be a good idea. Something like:
Snitch- Whenever a survivor is hooked you can tell the progress of generators. Generators regress 50/75/100% faster for 45 seconds after hooking a survivor.
This would encourage the killer to go get generators under control and it fits with the theme. Hot pursuit is just the opposite of the survivors windows of opportunity which is fine. I doubt it would really see any play. I would change Flank to "After kicking a generator you have no red stain or terror radius for 10/15/20 seconds."
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All they have to do to fix this mess is make it so survivors can continue harvesting vials. There are a million different ways to go about it.
1. If you have 30 vials, you begin each match with an empty vial. Full vial at the end of the match gives an extra 5k bp.
2. Survivors with full vials can continue to harvest, but the product goes evenly distributed to players without full vials. If all survivors have full vials they can continue to harvest and product goes nowhere.
3. Survivors have a second vial that won't count toward cosmetics, but they can use to share with other survivors.
4. Survivors with full vials can continue to harvest, but they begin to glow making them more visible to the killer. The more product they harvest, the brighter they glow.etc, etc, etc. So long as survivors can continue participating in the event and earning bonus bloodpoints.
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Killer with BBQ. All of the other killer perks like distressing are mediocre in terms of gaining bloodpoints. Sure, you get 100% more bloodpoints for devious acts, but you still have the same cap of 8,000 bloodpoints in that category. It just helps you get to the cap faster. BBQ rank 3 is basically a free survivor pudding in every single match. Plus, it has an amazing secondary function.
Another tip. Playing as killer, if you are trying to maximize bloodpoints gained per hour then you need to change your mindset as far as your goal in the match. Focus less on getting 4 kills and more on maximizing your bloodpoints gained per minute and finishing the matches quickly. Getting 4 kills and earning 60,000 bloodpoints (no offering) is great. But if it takes you 25 minutes to do it because you are slugging survivors and hunting that last immersed player then that isn't as good as playing 2 games in 30 minutes and earning 50,000 blood points per match.
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The vomit thing really was a 1 second off the top of my head idea. You are right that it would share too much design space with the Clown. For some reason I completely missed the flinging mud in the survivors face to obstruct vision function. That actually is a neat idea. I've come up with an alternative idea that I've actually put thought into that I really like.
Spectral Tombstone- You summon a semi-translucent tombstone 8 meters in front of you that acts as a solid object to survivors, but you can pass through freely. The tombstone has a duration of 15 seconds or until you summon another tombstone. Cooldown is 5 seconds.
I think there are a lot of really neat applications to a power like that and a tombstone would fit the gravedigger feel really well. I think 8 meters is the right distance as that is just outside of lunge range. If you timed it perfectly, it would appear right in front of a survivor and stop them briefly long enough to be hit. It would also feel really good to block a door, pallet, or window right before a survivor got to it.
I'll try to take a look at some of your other ideas when I get some time.
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There are some interesting thoughts here. I feel like the tunnel ability should be a secondary ability. Being able to fast move around objectives is strong, but I think he needs something that he can do to survivors. For example, and I'm just spitballing here, he projectile vomits a sticky substance. Survivors that walk across the vomit are slowed by 25% for 2 seconds. The range is short, the idea is to counter looping by leaving sticky puddles on the ground.
The perks are pretty decent. Dig Your Own Grave might need some tweaking. Having it trigger 3 times in a match might be a bit much. Instilled Fear paired with NOED seems a bit messed up. You either let the killer have NOED or you have generator progress reduced to a crawl for a very long time. It's not impossible to play around though. Survivors could coordinate and try to break totems at the same time. But for non SWF teams, it might be a bit much. I'm torn on that one. A good totem protection perk would be nice. At the same time there has to be room for counterplay and this feels a lot like a damned if you do or damned if you don't when paired with NOED and Ruin.
Overall, I like a lot of what you've come up with.
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Big deal about the rank. Honestly. The average survivor level is pretty close to yours. What I did notice in all those screenshots is that regardless of whether they escaped or not, you earned more bloodpoints in almost every match. That isn't even factoring in that you run BBQ and most of them don't even bother with WGLF. Just be happy that you are swimming in bloodpoints compared to them.
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@MhhBurgers said:
You already get to keep your addons. In theory you could easily get a 10k match without escaping and IF you escape you get to keep your items which would amount to up to 12k bloodpoints. If you pack in a farmbuild with WGLF, finding chests and the perk from ace that lets you get rare addons then you get similar BP to what a killer makes if he hooks every survivor at least once.Your logic is just.... hmmm... I'm trying really hard to think of a word that isn't too insulting. Wrong. Let's go with wrong. I've run tests before on how much bloodpoints I get on a killer with BBQ vs a survivor with WGLF and the results are disgusting.
Anyone that wants to claim that there is any semblance of balance in bloodpoints gained between survivors and killers, I would ask to take the following challenge. Play 20 games as a killer running BBQ. Then play 20 games as a survivor running WGLF. Record the lobby wait times, game times, and total bloodpoints earned for all games. Offerings should have same impact on both sides. No sandbagging. Post the results.
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You can't over generalize. I've run across a higher percentage of camping wraiths than I have camping leatherfaces. But to answer the original question, I would say they do it because they are the best at it. If leatherface wants you dead on a hook then there isn't much that can be done about it.
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I have hillbilly torso and legs, wraith torso and legs. I haven't completely decided what I want to do for my last 2 cosmetics. I might get The Doctor head and body or maybe The Doctor weapon and Hillbilly weapon. I haven't really decided yet.
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@Nos37 said:
If you want an immediate fix for this event, then the best solution would be to allow Survivors who already have 30 vials to interact with, and drain, cankers after the gens have been powered or the hatch is open.I would be okay with this. But my preferred solution would be to allow survivors to harvest with a full vial, but for the fluid to be evenly distributed among survivors who's vial isn't full. Everyone wins that way. Survivors with 30 vials can continue contributing to the event and gaining bloodpoints, survivors without 30 vials will get theirs filled quicker, and killers will have extended games and more event hooks. It's that rare win-win-win scenario.
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PS4 wait times aren't so terrible. It does take longer than normal though. Normal wait time for me is around 2 minutes. During the event, it's closer to 5 minutes. I expect it has more to do with players wanting to get all their vials than anything else. If you have 80% of your playerbase needing to play as survivor, but 50% wants to get their killer vials then obviously there is going to be an imbalance in lobby wait times.
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@SIX said:
Don't know if i should take this thread seriouslyI'll raise your "seriously" with another "seriously".
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@MyNamePete said:
@Scourge said:
Brady said:@Dreamnomad said:
It is a problem. I wish once your vial was full that you could continue harvesting, but it would be evenly distributed to the survivor's who's vial isn't full. That would solve most of the issues with this event on the survivor side. You could still work toward the bonus bloodpoints while helping your team mates.
They want it to be a competition between Survivors. Mind that.
You get more Nektar when working on the same plant with your friends than doing it alone. Working together on the plants is highly beneficial towards your event progressing, so how is that a competition?
im pretty sure you get the same amount, it just goes faster.
I think he means as a team. When you harvest a plant, you get a little over a third of a vial. But if 2 players harvest from the same plant at the same time then they both will have a little over a third of a vial. Collectively as a team, you harvest more if you harvest together.
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@Naiad said:
I wouldn't mind that solution as it would help those that hadn't finished yet and those that had finished but still have offerings. It would mean you're more likely to use your offering which helps not only survivors that haven't finished but killers by providing more of the event objectives.Yeah, it's a win-win-win really. Survivors can continue participating in the event past their 30 vial limit. Survivors who haven't reached their 30 vials will get there faster and killers will have extended games and more event hooks. Everyone wins.
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It is a problem. I wish once your vial was full that you could continue harvesting, but it would be evenly distributed to the survivor's who's vial isn't full. That would solve most of the issues with this event on the survivor side. You could still work toward the bonus bloodpoints while helping your team mates.
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There are plenty of other threads that discuss this very topic, but I do agree that a change needs to be made and the sooner the better.