OK so you want to nerf DH.
Then nerf anti-loop killers too. Would you agree? Asking to nerf DH when we have Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Artist, Nemesis. etc... Is not fair.
Also spoiler alert: After making DH useless, You all will complain about that everyone is using Spirt Burst.
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First not good if you’re relying on a single perk that badly to beat killers when others do it plenty of times
Nurse you need to get good distance and be as predictable as the weather at most add-on nerfs
Blight don’t go into open areas stay where it’s cluttered at most add-on changes
Nemesis not really hard just hold w, crouch, and get familiar with tier 1-2 and 3 ranges so you know when to vault
Artist beatable just a chore to do so by the magical W key maybe slight rework
All beatable killers no Dead Hard necessary those who say they’re unbeatable without it rely on Dead Hard too much.
Okay, so if the pre nerf Freddy is considered Old Freddy. Then whats the pre rework Freddy?
I´m honestly confused.
Nurse and Blight yes, and nerf MDR/DCB for spirit. The rest no.
The Freddy that time forgot.
Shame
I'm very glad he brushed his teeth.
I don't know where they are to show you but I do remember! They didn't show RED rank killrates last time, probably because they are still extremely high and didn't want to show them! There has only been several survivor nerfs since then so it would be impossible for the killrates to actually be lower.
It's not even overpowered people just suck and can't accept it
Is a general statement, it's not specifically talking about either dodging a hit or using it for (uncounterable) distance, and as using DH for distance is the more common use, aswell as the overpowered one, I assumed they were talking about that specific use of the Perk.
Good Survivors don't even need DH against a good Nurse. Nurse has a ~50% kill rate against Survivors of equal skill
Well i guess they don´t show rank ranges anymore, because there are no ranks.
Here the old and new stats.
We´ll probably get new stats in 2 days. Along with info if DH will be even nerfed at all (doubt it).
Does killers seriously complain about keys? It's the same as complaining about DS.... Any more nerfs to it and it will become useless.
Overcome becomes useless when playing with one health state or exposed, so it wouldn't mind against plague and tons of stuff that makes you exposed.
Ive seen plenty of good survivors run good blights and nurses. The reason dh needs to be nerfed is because it's literally uncounterable when used for distance which is worse design than what killers are currently like.
SB is far less powerful than DH, the only people who will complain are people who like complaining, every other killer will be celebrating
Here this video explains exactly how it's op https://youtu.be/LNNtGyvAi_U. Or I guess I just "bait out the E key for distance".
Yeah cause at least with sprint burst there's some setup to use it mid chase which if you really wanted to use it mid chase you would have to go to the killer to force chase with you. Thats the risk factor, if the killer doesnt chase you, you effectively wasted some time trying to force chase from the killer. And I find that fine unlike "press e for distance and I-frames on command while injured".
Nobody cares about sprint burst bud. It's not oppressive.
You can remove the aura reading of b&c and many killers would use it anyway. You can remove the higher speed of noed and killer will use it anyway. There are other perks that have 2 effects
Dead hard is best perk for survivors so ofcourse I rely on it. Nemesis testacle hits just from so far away countering that is very hard if he is any decent so dh is needed. Agains't good nurse and blight dh is only way to survive bit longer and extend the chase. Sb can work sometimes agains't nurse but agains't blight no.
I agree to an extent.
I agree that something will take the place of "nerf dead hard". I'm pretty sure sprint burst will get the same level of criticism after like 6 months.
I don't think all the anti-loop killers need a nerf. I do believe though Nurse and Blight will need looked at when dead hard is nerfed.
That's definitely not true about Dead Hard "only being useful against basic attack killers".
But not two effects that are each independently something people would use all on its own. If B&C had no aura at all it's unlikely it would see much use. If all NOED gave was a 5% speed boost it would never get used. But if you split Dead Hard up into both a lunge for distance and a second perk that allows you to be instantly invulnerable for a short time then both those perks would see use.
Dead Hard is overpowered. As @dugman stated, there is a very significant statistical effect on escape rates with Dead Hard that no other perk comes close to.
DS? Invaluable but it gives you one chance to escape a tunneling killer. Even if it were per hook state, which, incidentally, I'm good with it still doesn't save you as much as Dead Hard. BT? Great perk but not as good as Dead Hard. Unbreakable? Great perk as well. It can be clutch but it won't activate every match but, when it does, it can be great. Dead Hard is better than all of them.
That's overpowered in an asymmetrical game. Survivors should not be able to 1v1 the Killer and, in a chase, the Killer should be able to catch them in a reasonable time given equal skill. If not, there's no point to have a Killer and we might as well just have a bot instead.
Nerf Dead Hard. Break it up into two different perks or just remove either the iframes or the distance. I'd prefer removing the iframes because lag could lead to a lot of frustrated users but Dead Hard needs a nerf.
I play solo survivor exclusively and I still think the game is stacked in favor of survivors more than it should be. I don't actually have to try very hard to escape, and for a game like this that doesn't make escaping feel like an accomplishment. At this point you don't even have to worry about totems since those were nerfed to be almost useless to killers and more in favor of survivors.
Eventually, the killer will need to fix gens and the survivors will beat the killer to death. That's the direction we're going.
That's completely fine. I absolutely hate every killer you just mentioned, especially Nemesis. Both DH and Nemesis completely negate game skill and they're extremely boring to go up against.
Also I dont ever see killers complain about sprint burst. Its way easier to manage than DH since theres actual counterplay to sprint burst.
The counter is paying attention and not mindlessly holding m1. No wonder you think its uncounterable <3
I mean gotta think about sb with more context. Dh used to rekt nurse, blight, twins w/e. Meanwhile when playing those killers and a survivor uses sb you tend to not even notice they have sb.
:)
I don't want to nerf dead hard
I want to delete it
Ok sure but then they would also need to nerf some loops cause an m1 killer would still take a long time on them even if the survivor doesn't have dead hard.
I still don't understand the dead hard hate. Simply because they dont also hate on the rest of exhaustion perks as much,
THEY ALL EXTEND CHASE TIME. Its a matter of when, and i think dead hard being in your face, often making whiffs then it just feels worse.
Nope. No other Exhaustion Perk extends chases unless the Killer is bad.
All of them end/deny chase all together, Dead Hard, and maybe Head On, are the only Exhaustion Perks that extend chases
Dead Hard is the only exhaustion perk that can be used with the press of a button, at any time, anywhere, on any map, with no restrictions.
You can see someone use lithe or sprint burst (unless it's 99'd) and decide to leave chase extremely early instead of spending 25 seconds chasing someone to get a hit, spend 10-20 more seconds to get within hit distance then getting E'd for distance. So you basically spent 45 seconds to get rid of 2/3 health states (this example is just of an average survivor that knew how to use dh for distance but isn't all that good at looping).
Overall bigger loss in time than chasing someone when they use sb/lithe at the start of a chase.
What’s about blight addons ?
please ;)
Invulnerable without distance it’s useless
In a fast-paced horror game where I'm playing as a horror icon, I really wanna swing at people and not wait the extra 4 seconds to wait out dead hard. That doesn't seem like something a psychotic killer would do.
And at least sprint burst can have counterplay just fake going towards them so they waste it. Besides most survivors walk to save it.
Most killers get punished. Trapper and his traps, Wraith and his speed boost, Billys saw, Nurse going into fatigue. Most abilities of killers are countered by a perk that gives you 4 or 5 meters of I-frames and a speed boost with little to no counterplay. I have nothing against Dead Hard, I use it myself.
But a 100 hours play that can loop decently can loop for at least 2 and a half gens. You don't have to use any mechanics to use it.
Just E.
Just give it time. Suddenly, a lot of people will find Sprint Burst "uncounterable", "game breaking", "ruins my experience", "it has made killer unplayable".
It kind of does though. First the killer assumptions. Almost every survivor is using dead hard, and it's use equals survivor victory. If these assumptions are true, why are the kill rates nearly perfectly balanced? And if they are balanced now, what would happen if you nerf the survivors strongest tool? The answer of course would be plummeting rates of survival which would REQUIRE meaningful nerfs to all killers.
I want Dead Hard nerfed. After, I expect that there will be killer nerfs since survival rates will drop.
However, those changes will be based on data that's actually representative of normal game mechanics and healthier for the game overall. Dead Hard needs to be nerfed because it's overpowered.
That’s one opinion.
Sprint burst has been in the game since launch. Hardly anyone cares about it. This fragile, cherry picked argument is just a deflection because DH is almost everything you just mentioned.
It’s not an “assumption”, it’s statistics from data. For example, in a set of 400 games posted a couple months ago, the kill rates ranged from something like 70% to 48%depending on how many survivors used Dead Hard (i.e. around an 8% extra escape rate per Dead Hard in the survivor group.) None of the other tracked perks had that much effect on escape rates, including popular ones like Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike. Likewise multiple datasets have shown Dead Hard being used by something like 40% of survivors.
And to answer your question, even if Dead Hard were nerfed it would still be quite good, probably something like a 3-4% increase in escape rates. And since 60% of survivors don’t even use it now the overall impact would be on the order of maybe 1-2% across all games, if that.
DH is insane against every killer in the game that is an insta down killer. And even then, if you're injured already from the unhook then you just become a survivor who has two health states against an insta down killer. Its good in every game and against every killer.
EZ
What? No. That's silly and basically just whataboutism.
DH isn't just a problem because it's overpowered - it's a problem because this one ability dictates the meta at higher MMRs and it's just not healthy for the game as whole.
If they do, they'll be wrong. Stop trying to sidestep the issue.
I'm none of those things.
I also think that DH needs a nerf.
But it's not. It's clearly a you problem, game has been like this since launch and killer rates have always been sky high, the issue isn't that it's broken or overpowered, the issue is you want your matches even easier, being able to finally be an omegablink Nurse without a single counter.
There's so many unhealthy things that shouldn't be in the game, but they are. You want to make it all about Deadhard because it's the one thing bothering you particularly. It's not the one thing that bothers me in particular, so you cry about that one, and I'll cry about different ones.
Except that, again, this is nothing but whataboutism.
We can talk about the other things that probably need a tweak - but jumping into every discussion of one thing and going 'oh but what about that other thing' is pointless.
Dead Hard is just a problem ability that never should have stayed the way it is. The fact that you see it on literally every survivor you face after a certain point definitely indicates that it's too strong.
The Nurse is already way broken, you can't remove the only perk that can counter her. Also, DH is the only perk that allows survivors to make BT saves against face campers. On top of those 2 issues, there's also the one-hit-downs, that only DH can counter.
As much as killer-mains want to remove DH, there's a lot tied to DH that would need to be addressed.
You seem to think you talk from objectivity (you don't, you are extremely biased) and that we have to make the thread about what -you- personally think it should be. Again, I don't see it the same way it you do. We can talk exclusively about Deadhard and whether or not it needs to change (it doesn't), because it is currently one of the only few counters to ridiculously broken and uncounterable mechanics (Omegablink Nurse, exploit Blights) and it's the only perk making solo queue playable in high mmr when you face those situations.
Deadhard isn't any problem, and it is in fact a (possibly bad, but that's all we have) band-aid we need to make those matches playable. Just like DS is one of the few things we have against constant tunnelling and camping in solo queue. I'm not going to play a game just to be an excuse for you to feel like you can play, if I'm not guaranteed to have a chance to play the game.
The fact you see it on every survivor isn't because it's broken, but because the alternatives are too weak. Big difference.
At the absolute highest MMRs, or tournaments, a kitted out Nurse comes out about even with a kitted out SWF.
She's also the only killer that can really do this.
If DH is nerfed, Nurse will likely need to see a few addon tweaks...and maybe Blight's too. That's about it. But let's nerf DH and see how things look when the dust settles, because this game isn't balanced around the absolute highest MMR and the best killers - and DH utterly destroys a bunch of weaker killers (Trapper immediately comes to mind).
Nobody talks from objectivity - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to. Which is what I usually do.
I'm just pointing out that if you have to resort to whataboutism, you're conceding the point. Yes, Nurse needs a few of her addons tweaked, as does Blight. But that's another discussion entirely - and one we can have after DH is fixed, and the dust settles.
Know why?
This game isn't balanced around Nurse and Blight. DH absolutely destroys a whole lot of other killers, particularly weaker ones. It can still eat killer powers, bypass Trapper traps and far too often operates as an extra health state for survivors.
'Too weak' is relative. Survivors have plenty of good perks - but they are overshadowed by a handful of others so strong that not having them equipped is basically playing the game wrong. That's not healthy.