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@Aaron10 said:
I've come to the conclusion that this game will die withing the year or maybe year and a half. I've found my self needing to take a break from it for a while then coming back to to see if it's better now; but I see no changes being done to improve balancing and more imbalances constantly being added to the game such as op killers, getting hit through vaults unfairly, map bugs, the list goes on and on. It will succumb sooner than expected due to lack of player base(survivors) mainly because of the severe imbalances between killers and survivors. This game is (and I'm sorry to say this) officially and completely survivor biased and has turned almost entirely into baby killer mode, it's gotten to the point where survivors nearly have no chance of all getting out alive as a whole team. They keep nerfing survivors to the ground and buffing the living crap out of killers; such as taking away insta heals, nerfing decisive strike to make it situational and easily counterable by simply waiting, nerfing the power of toolboxes, nerfing petrified oak from removing hooks to increasing the distances between them(which BTW doesn't even make a noticeable difference in distance even when using 3 or 4 of them), nerfing medkits power, etc... It's just getting so old and boring, I don't even want to play it anymore. I know what you're thinking... 'oh but killers are meant to be powerful!' but to what extent!? To the extent where survivors can't do anything but just run and try to hide or juke just to eventually go down and get hooked without getting a chance to wiggle out or at least half way. I don't know. What do you all think? I'm just a "entitled survivor" or do I have a point here? Either way if nothing is being done for survivors, then it pains me to say this game will die a horrible sad way.
I think you are overexaggerating. The game is pretty good ballanced overall right now. Stuff like instaheal had to be nerfed, since it was simply overpowered. The hitting through vaults is annoying tho, i give you that, it is because of dedicated servers.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177227#Comment_1177227
With the maps, well again you are absolutly right, Saloon is very killersided and pretty much all the new maps or reworks are favouring more the killer. This trend is getting very annoying, and the reason is because so many killer players are extremly bad at the game and cry for buffs and stuff.
That's what you wrote.
Regarding the balance of the Saloon map, I think the main counterargument is gen speed. That's what many people argue when it comes to map balance. Gens going so fast is fine, if the maps are small enough for killers to apply proper map pressure, and if the killers has a fair chance of downing survivors fast enough. So maps shouldn't have many loops that are safe for survivors, and allow for no counterplay as killer.
The Saloon map certainly is one of the smaller maps, but I feel like it has a fair size for killers to apply enough map pressure without it being too overwhelming for survivors. It's definitely not that small either.
I also disagree when it comes to the map's loops. Not all pallet loops are completely unsafe, the map also has mindgameable pallets at which survivors can waste a killers time effectively with mindgames before the killer gets a hit. And since gens go so fast, survivors don't even need to last all too long in chases in order to let their team mates make impactful progress on gens, because gens can be repaired very fast.
Very importantly to mention in that case, the new Saloon map has quite a few really good windows for survivors, especially in the Saloon itself. These windows only become less safe once the breakable wall near it is broken, which still doesn't make the windows useless in the slightest. So you either get good use of a window in a chase, where the killer has to break the wall and you get a lot of distance, or he breaks some of the walls before, which makes him waste time while other survivors are all repairing gens. And the map has quite a few breakeable walls. It even has a modified T-L wall, that is very safe until the breakeable wall located there is broken, which then returns the T-L wall into a normal T-L wall.
That's why I would argue that this map is fairly balanced, the only change I want to see to that map is to have more mindgameable pallets added to it. Since most pallets on that map are mindgameable or unsafe, it should definitely have more pallets, similar to Hawkins.
It also depends on the killer of course. I can see Hillbilly or Freddy certainly being a bit op on that map, no doubt. They will probably need some small nerfs once more maps are brought to a similar balance level.
And here we disagree. Generator speed is in my opinion fine as it is. Let me explain by starting with explaining value.
In theory, a hook is worth just about 8% and a generator is worth 20%, since you need 12 hooks as a killer and 5 generators for survior to complete your objective (we ignore now, that survs have to open the exit gate aswell). But these are only numbers. Lets go into detail so you know what i mean.
The first hook might be in fact just the 8%, actually sometimes even less, because of a few factors:
- The playfield is big, generators are spread out on the map
- All 4 survivors are (hopefully) on generators and you can only chase 1 guy at a time
- All pallets are still up
The same goes for gens (big playfield, all are working, all the resources for surviors are there)
By nature, the killer has (and has to have) a bad early game, and the reason why this is is because:
From the moment on, the killer hooked the first guy, every next hook becomes more and more valuable, since the dynamic of the game has now drasticly changed: Suddenly it changed from all 4 survs on gens to 1 Survivor on the hook, 1 is safing, one is getting chased and one is on a generator. On top of that, pallets get broken, the playfield becomes significantly smaller due to low value generators that have been done and the killer has constant pressure.
Every generator becomes more and more valueable and harder to do in the middle and late game, but on the contrast, it becomes more and more easy for the killer to get hooks, kills and genpressure (smaller playfield, less pallets for the survivors, more pressure, more downed people, more room to play for the killer like i said)
It is the NATURE for the game, that the first generators has to pop really quick. If that does not happen because of longer repairtimes, survivors wont stand a chance to succeed the last generators because of already named reasons.
When we look at the saloon now with its handful of extremly unsafe and its handful of very unsafe pallets, with like i said a massive deadzone where 2 gens have spawned, i dont see fairness at all. Especially in the endgame when those unsafe pallets are broken there is not a lot room to defend, especially since at that time, 1 or even 2 survivors should be dead normally, if the killer is decent.
The reason why i think that many complainers here are bad is because they apparently have problems i simply dont have, naming genrush. And i am not a progamer or anything. If i can do it, everyone else should be able to do it aswell OR at least be able to learn it. It is a little funny when people complain about the Ruin nerf and that it was just to please the baby survivors, but on the other hand, the same people complain about genrush, which is normally not a problem when you are a decent killer.
I really think, killers had more then enough buffs in the recent past, i think it is time to finally fix some of the issues that are in the game for ages like unfair Addons, Offerings or Items (Moris, Crazy addons like iri head, Keys)
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1176668#Comment_1176668
I honestly don't get why some people always use the argument that other people are just bad at the game when the game sees balancing they don't agree with. Like it's always the others that are bad right, it's never one self that maybe needs to improve in this game.
If you think Saloon is killer sided, that's your opinion, but maps aren't necessarily made more killer sided because so many killer players are bad at killer. Like how does one say that with certainty? Maybe you just need to improve at survivor on maps like that?
It goes both ways of course, People constantly cry about how easy survivor is and how impossible killer is. One recent thread was titled "When does Baby-mode get nerfed". It's just ridiclous.
Again, thinking Saloon is unbalanced is fine, everyone has their own opinion. I would argue it needs a few more pallets myself. But just accusing all the other players being bad at the game, which causes maps to become unbalanced, is not really fair. Perhaps there are some good reasons as to why people complain about map balance and think the newer maps are actually balanced.
I am not sure why you mention "why some people always use the argument that other people are just bad at the game" to quote me. You may show me where i mentioned anything about me saying anything like that.
If you think Saloon is killer sided, that's your opinion, but maps aren't necessarily made more killer sided because so many killer players are bad at killer. Like how does one say that with certainty? Maybe you just need to improve at survivor on maps like that?
The Saloon is extremly killersided for reasons: Really bad loops, small size, super unsafe pallets, big deadzones, breakable walls, kinda dangerous gens, especially those 2 towards the deadzone and on the gallows.
Maps are recently (!) made more killersided. Saloon obviously like mentioned, Lab is indoor which is good for killer with tons of unsafe pallets and barly any decent window. Even the springwood rework is now better for killer, the old version was more survivorsided with its safer pallets. New Yamaoka has way worse loops then old Yamaoka, less pallets and escecially less safe pallets, the main building is in total favour for the killer. Why i think it is certaint? Because there is no counterargument. Unsafe loops are unsafe loops and small size is small size.
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@elvangulley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177022#Comment_1177022
So just nerf any killer that requires you to do more than just run around pallets no trying to do other things to counter every killer needs to be super loopable and basic m1
You dont read my post, again.
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@elvangulley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1176980#Comment_1176980
So what more nerfs do nurse and spirit need 3 minute cooldowns how about take thier power away and make them basic m1 killers both killers just got nerfed and suffer from loads of bugs nurse is barley played anymore she is unfun to play and if you can dodge huntress norm axes why cant you dodge iri head left me guess take billys saw and movement freddys snares and teleport nerf doctor back to uselessness people need to stop calling for one sided nerfs
Nice rant. Nurse and spirit are hard to ballance. I would fix some bugs and i would leave the nurse as she is right now. That sounds aweful since she is overpowered, but the only other solution i see is a complete rework of her power, and i would not like this since i like to play her aswell. The reason i would still leave the nurse is that thank god she is not a problem at the moment, because, as you mentioned, she is not played very often. Reason for that is probably the lack of skilled nurse players. She needs a lot of effort to master, and not that many want to spend that much time on a single killer.
Spirit.. well they have to add some sort of counterplay to her power. I mean.. REAL counterplay and not just a random guessing game.
If you really think, Iri head is fine because you can dodge normal hatchets, i must say you have no idea what you are talking about sorry. It is like saying "Add more pallets, because you know, you can break them..." Your argument makes no sense at all. There is of course a very big difference between Iri and non iri huntress, the chases are so much faster and especially the snowball is absurd.
The rest of your post is unfortunatly just angry exaggeration.
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@elvangulley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1176785#Comment_1176785
Your so non biased that you called for nothing but killer nerfs and making the few good killers worse
Ah i am a biased survivor for you LOL
Seriously, do you even read my post?
With some stuff he is wrong as i said but with some other he is simply right. But apparently in your mind it is biased when i support some arguments like that Iri head is broken (which it simply is) or that survivors got more nerfed then killers (pretty much a fact, read through patchnotes and come back later)
And Nurse and Spirit are op. I play them almost every day and they ARE simply op! They are not "just" good, you win almost every game with them if you are somehow decent. If you dont agree, i guess we are not on the same page, but dont call me biased on anything, with that you make yourself sound like a fool.. no offense.
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I am not a killer main, i play both roles 50/50 all the time on R1 and i flex every killer. I am probably one of the least biased person on this forum. But thanks for trying.
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@beaubird13 said:
I have been playing this game for 3 years and I've seen both sides killer and surviver I play both and I'm just going to say it killers are op af,every game I play I get killers that tunnel and camp and use the most stupid and op add-ons and perks it's just so bullshit how killers know how to counter everything,they need to be nerfed and before all the killer mains say oh get to rank 1 and then we will talk ranks don't mean ######### bud,iredesent heads moris freddy all these need nerfing and dedicated servers dont help either the devs need to make there game better instead of waisting money on ######### cosmetics and DLCs and the new maps are so killer sided dead dawg saloon is literally a tiny box,and I'm not saying buff the ######### out of survivers just make it more fair
I have mixed feelings with what your say, some stuff is right and some is wrong.
First, I really dont think killers are op or unfair overall. True, Nurse and Spirit might be still overpowered af even tho some dont admit it here, but all the others are well ballanced or even a little (!) bit to weak. Well, Freddy needs some little nerfs since he is way to easy to get a good result, but the rest is fine.
Unfortunatly, tunneling and camping is a thing in DBD, and there is not a lot they can do about it. Try to get better at looping the killer, so to make it as hard as possible for him to catch you. The best feeling in DBD is when you run the killer for 5 gens and then get facecamped. Its like he is handing you a trophy.
Perks and addons... well addons, i must say that you are right with that. Stuff like iri head should be gone looong time ago. I dont get why they nerf stuff like BNPs, Insta heals or Toolboxes into the ground and leave completly broken stuff like iri head in the game. But Perks? Also survivor have strong perks, its not true that killer have here the upper hand.
With the maps, well again you are absolutly right, Saloon is very killersided and pretty much all the new maps or reworks are favouring more the killer. This trend is getting very annoying, and the reason is because so many killer players are extremly bad at the game and cry for buffs and stuff. But again - if it stays the way it is right now, i would be fine with it, more ballanced then it ever was.
Kind regards
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@indieeden7 said:
Would be a cool addition if they ever made firecracker a normal item and added the firecracker add-ons that are in the game files.
Oh i did not even know that there are those files. Hope we get some firecracker addons asap, this item is unfortunatly without a nice addon pretty much worthless.
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/FirecrackersI just went through those addons, and they are in my opinion very uncreative to say the least.
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@Seltas0208 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174988#Comment_1174988
I'll mark it when u get up but here's one awnser for you. The amount of ultra rare perks in the game is 0.
OH LOL you were asking for ultra rare perks?! Did not even read, all i saw was "rarity" and "perks" :D So yea, it is 0 obviously.
When do i get my mark by the way? It took me 10 minutes to fill it out, and i am sure you have a corrected version of it so i am sure it wont take that long ;-)
EDIT: AH ONE MOMENT SIR! I just realiced by reading over it -> Is this a troll question? "How fast can a survivor Sprint?" ... i said 100% which is true, but it could also be 150% with perks like sprintburst and even faster when you count in some bugs we had in this game. I have to edit this. ;)
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1175178#Comment_1175178
Just because survivors were brought down from the level of overpowered they were at does not mean the game is still not skewed in favor of survivors, what it means is that the advantage has narrowed, it doesn't mean the game suddenly became killer sided.
And I never said he was wrong on all counts, because he wasn't, I specifically remember completely agreeing with iridescent heads and even Ebony Mori's, but the counterpoint was that keys break the game for an entire survivor team and actually reward survivors with 5k bp for escape and a possible pip, meanwhile Mori's often mean a guaranteed safety pip as you need hooks for a high enough devout score to pip and kills do not count in the same way.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1175197#Comment_1175197
I am now picturing poor Michael with T-Rex arms, it makes me sad but laugh at the same time.
I am not saying it is totally killersided, most killers are actually well ballanced, but as i said, he makes a point that survivors got nerfed way harder then killers, but still killers are those who claim that they got nerfed to the ground (which could not be further away from the truth). You can find those threads of "disapointed" killers every day but currently nothing else happens the killer buffs and survivor nerfs.
You never said he is wrong with what he said, i also did not say that, but many dont get the point of this thread. Most of the nerfs are of course fine, and so are the killer nerfs. But again, there are people that for some reason think killers are those who suffer.
DBD has not been in a better state in sense of ballancing.
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@Kwikwitted said:
Ok, so now that you've made your list, let's check these off one by one.
- This wasn't a nerf, this was a correction to the nonsense that killers were getting stunned when out of pallet stun range, it made respecting pallets literally no different from just challenging all of them.
- The exhaustion nerf was also necessary, being able to continuously abuse exhaustion perks while continuing to run around was ridiculous, and let's not pretend survivors often easily recharge their exhaustion while sitting on generators anyway.
- The DS rework was again, a correction, the perk should not be completely free, but function as anti-tunneling. Even in its current iteration it is still 60 seconds of immunity from being picked up.
- Mettle of Man's problem was it was a free damage state with no way of indicating to the killer whether it was active or even that the survivor was running it, at least now if I see multiple attempts for a protection hit I can get an idea. Honestly this perk should have never even happened.
- What are you even talking about here? Balanced Landing is still a 40 second cooldown and now even muffles grunts from falling by 100% at tier 3. It's still absolutely destructive on Haddonfield and is also very good on the new saloon map?
- Spirit is countered by good juking and an understanding of her mechanics. Just because she's not a standard looping killer doesn't mean she is impossible to play against, and she's been nerfed, CONSTANTLY, notice you left that part out.
- I'll give you iridescent heads as being OP, I'll even throw in Ebony Mori's. Now that those are out of the way how about YOUR KEYS MISTER.
- Um, you are aware that mirror myers moves at a majorly reduced speed right? And is easily counterable by just having someone follow him around? If you die to mirror myers it's because your team is potatoes, not to mention it's easily countered by sprint burst and spine chill.
- You even admit insta-heals are OP, and gen rushing has not been fixed. Toolboxes now also make sabotaging way more viable and super annoying for killers, so where was your big "nerf" again?
- Endgame collapse had to be put in to prevent survivors from taking games hostage by refusing to leave, this was brought on by survivor behavior, no one to blame but yourselves.
- Really? The mere existence of second chance perks? So we're just going to ignore Adrenaline, DS, BT, and Unbreakable? Spare me.
- The point was they both DID get patched. My guess would be the Legion exploit was more complicated coding wise so it took longer, this isn't killer sided, fixing exploits is just something that gets done.
- Um, hello? Dedicated servers have been a thing for months now? Next.
- We CAN'T hold a game hostage because of bleed out you idiot, that's the point, if we leave you all on the ground the game will end when everyone bleeds out, likewise before EGC, if survivors just hid the whole time they could keep the game hostage INDEFINITELY.
- Now you're just assuming community sentiment, killers get haranged for quitting games too, and DC penalties affect both. The better question should be why a survivor can decide to die on first hook, screwing killers over out of possible hooks needed for pips, just cause they don't like facing a certain killer?
- Camping and tunneling are both punished and can be easily countered. DS counter tunneling hard and camping is countered by just rushing gens and ending the game while the killer stands with one survivor like a doofus. The emblem system also punishes this behavior severely.
Now that we're done with your list, I've got a couple to counter.
- The Ruin change, biggest one that cause the gen rush meta we are now living through, destroyed cleansing totems as a secondary objective and turned every game into a sweaty tryhardfest for any killer. Particularly devastating to trap based killers. All to appease "newer survivors".
- Deliberate removal of all synergy in generator regression perks. New Ruin can't work with Thrilling Tremors, New Ruin can't work with Pop, goes on and on.
I won't pretend survivors haven't seen nerfs occasionally but to pretend this game isn't survivor-sided is just delusional.
All you say is just a confirmation of what he is trying to say: Survivors used to be way more op then they are now and got nerfed way harder then killers. You actually agree with him and i think he makes a solid point. Also, he did not even listed the hardest nerfs in my opinion (maps, dedicated servers for example)
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@Kai6864 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1174988#Comment_1174988
Let’s see if I can help out here! Doctor’s power is Carter’s Spark, Spirit’s is Yamaoka’s Haunting, Demo’s is Of The Abyss (or something like that), Nurse’s full one is Spencer’s Last Breath, Huntress’ power is Hunting Hatchets, Oni’s is Yamaoka’s Wrath, Leatherface has his chainsaw named after him (Bubba’s Chainsaw), Hag’s is Blackened Catalyst and Freddy has Dream Demon. I think these are correct, not entirely sure about Hags or Demos.
Oh yes thats true, its the one when you step in his snears or interact with a fake pallet.
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What is the percentage debuff that mangled applies to healing? 20%
Does a survivor have to be injured to suffer from hemorage? I mix this up all the time, but i think this is bleeding :D So yes.
How long does it take to complete a gen without any modifiers? 80 seconds, bonus points for me -> every great skillcheck is 1,6 seconds
How fast can survivors Sprint? 100% -> 4m/s EDIT: Just saw this while i read over it: There is also 150% if you run perks like SB or Ballanced Landing. So just in case you wanted to troll with this question i had to "adjust" the answer... ;)
How does the undetectable status affect survivors and killers? No terror Radius and no red stain? Not sure tho if i miss something.
Which map contains the highest number of potential pallet spawns. What is the maximum number of pallets that can spawn on that map? Oh nice, i have no idea. If i had to guess, it is an Autohaven map, probably Blood Lodge?
Why do crows make a cawing sound when they fly away? And how do you stop them from flying away? Because they are crows i guess? :P How to prevent: Use Calm spirit, or crauching.
Name a purpose of flashlights that isn't freeing a survivor from a killers grasp? BLinding the killer, beeing a toxic #########, destroying hag traps.
How long does it take to pick yourself up off the floor using unbreakable? I have no idea.
How long are you exposed for when your marked by a ghostface using chewed pen and "philly" ? I have no idea. Lets say 50 seconds?
How long is a killer stunned for when hit by a pallet? 2 seconds
How long does spirit fury take to break a pallet? Instantly?
What is the aura reading range of left behind when using the perk open handed? Oh boy, i know its 8 meters on open handed, but i dont know left behind. I just guess and say it is 32 meters + 8 = 40 meters.
What is the standard add on structure for most killers? 2 red, 4 browns, 4 purple and 5 yellow 5 green.
What level do you unlock teachables at on each character? 30, 35, 40
What is "pressuring generators" ? A thing nobody here does and complains then about getting genrushed ;)
How long is corrupt intervention active for ? 2 minutes
How long does it take while looking directly at ghostface to reveal him? He cant get revealed. At least i cant do it.
How fast are 110% killers? 4,4m/s
How fast are 115% killers? 4,6 m/s
How fast is the nurse without add ons? 333% on her blink and movement is 96,5% i think
How fast is a hag using waterlogged shoe? Not 100% sure but i think i can remember (i never play that addon) some youtuber talked about it and was wondering about the strange speed. I think it is 4.5/ms
How fast are crouching survivors no using urban evasion? There is crouching in DbD? Honestly, i dont know. I can only guess, and i would say 20%?
Which perks apply a bloodpoint bonus post trial? BBQ, We're gonna live forever.
How many obsession perks are there? Name them. Dying light, Play with your food, Safe the best for last, Nemesis, Rancor, Dark Devotion, Furtive Chase, Remember me, Sole survivor, Decisivie Strike, Object of Obsession
Who originally owned dead by daylight? I have no idea
What are the names of the emblems for killer and survivor? Lightbringer, Evader, Benevolent, Unbroken, Gatekepper, Chaser, Malicious, Devout
Define a safe loop Uff what a question. A safe loop is a loop where a survivor has to make a mistake so the killer can get a hit
Define an unsafe loop A unsafe loop is a loop where a killer has to make a mistake so the survivor can get away uninjured
Define an infinite Nothing the killer can do unless waiting for Entity blocker and / or bloodlust to catch up. Or playing nurse.
How many rare perks are there in the game in total? I have no idea and i wont even try. I think they should remove rarity of perks at all, would help to have a better overview.
How many very rare perks are in the game in total? I have no idea and i wont even try. I think they should remove rarity of perks at all, would help to have a better overview.
How many ultra rare perks are in the game? I have no idea and i wont even try. I think they should remove rarity of perks at all, would help to have a better overview.
Name every killer power You serious? Trapper (Bear Traps), Wraith (Whailing Bell), Billy + Bubba (Chainsaw), Nurse (Last Breath), Huntress (Hatchets), Myers (Evil Within), Doctor (Madness?), Legion (Feral Frenzy), Hag(Traps, i forgot the name), Pig(reversed Beartraps), Clown(Afterpiece tonic), Freddy (Dreamsomethingsomething), Spirit (oh shoot, what was the name? Haunting somethingsomething), Ghostface(Night Shroud), Demogorgon (damn...), The ######### cowboy(Redeemer), Oni (Wrath), Plague (Vile Purge), Probably forgot a killer even lol.
Name every item No more patient sorry, Flashlight, Medkit, Toolbox, Key, Map, Firecracker. Who needs items anyway? :)
Give me my D- please <3
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@USELESS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1173557#Comment_1173557
Wait with? Why is trapper on the list? I was a trapper main and when I play versus TRAPPER is pretty fun
Because of paranoia. Every blase of grass is dangerous. And stepping into traps is a really horrible feeling.
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Most hated to least hated:
- Deathslinger
- Deathslinger
- Deathslinger
- Trapper
- Spirit
- Nurse
- All the rest
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I hate the deathslinger. Actually i abhore him.
It is like versing old Legion 1.0 but even worse. Genrush vs disgusting chase mechanics.
Nobody really asked for an overwatch cowboy in dead by daylight, so why do with get this killer?
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I dont do dailys at all.
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Yes, it is overrated. You play the whole game with 3 perks for just one effect that often does not help but actually hindering you (exhausted).
I think it is strong because of its extreme comeback potential, but those scenarios are not frequently enough that i run this perk very often (beside on my "Loop the killer for 5 gens" build)
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Where is the stinky cowboy?
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@thesuicidefox said:
Do you think there exists unbeatable killer builds? Like something so dominating if played perfectly no one can ever escape?
Let's ignore Memento Mori and map offerings. Focus just on killer's with specific perks and add-ons.
EDIT: Let's also disregard keys because I believe they can supersede anything the killer has except mori.
Yes of course. A perfect Nurse or Spirit with the best addons. Perks wont matter that much so it is not about the build.
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@Thatbrownmonster said:
The more I view this dlc the more I realize it's probably the worst dlc in dbd soo far
Deathslinger- Fun killer to play as, but the most boring to go against, where nothing of him seems unique, since he looks like a typical npc from red dead redemption. His only unique aspect is his gun, and his leg, nothing else is unique about him, compared to the other killers. His power is horrible to go against since even if you do break the chain you still get to mend, would be fine if you got injured, but you also need to mend even if he doesn't hit you?
Deathslinger perks are some of the worst perks-
Gearhead works as Discordance but you are dependent on a skillcheck appearing, and even then you have a limited time for it to happen
Dead Man's switch- Works as a sort of thrilling threamours but it relies on hooking the obsession AND the survivors to stop fixing a generator, which to be honest would only happen if the generator is either half way or the survivor is desperated to go for the save
Hex: retribution - I am not even sure what even is the point of this perk, since for it to really work you would have to either be close to someone allready cleansing and wait for them to finish a totem, or simply using it against a survivor that is not paying attention
Zarina- Another boring looking survivor, nothing much unique about her, with some boring perks
Off the record- Literally iron will and distortion mixed together with the condition that you have to be unhooked and it only allows it to happen for over 1 minute
Red hearing- Works fine for the first time but after that the killer won't fall for it again, sure you can use it to bait the killer to a generator but pretty weak perk
For the people- Only decent perk this dlc, really strong if used correctly and can be broken at the end game
The map- looks amazing, too bad it's a small map, where everything is in the middle of the map, where everything around is empty without a single pallet, just bushes and cactus to hide on
Would love to hear your opinions on this, and remember this is just my opinion
I think i liked all DLCs so far, at least more or less, but yes, this DLC was just really bad in every possible way.
New perks are far from amazing, deathslinger should rather be an overwatch character instead of a DbD killer + his design is on an awefullevel like legion 1.0. And on top of that the saloon is the worst map every created.
So to answer your question: Yes, Chains of Hate is the worst DLC in DBD so far. And i doubt there will ever be a DLC quiet as bad as this one. In gaming.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Friend played "Get off your lawn" Hillbilly for a few games the other day, and one match people reported him for it and he was banned for 24 hours.
This is unfortunate, he got 2 kills playing this way and safety pipped but it made people angry that he played that way so apparently that is a punishable offense.
So people know what that is, you take the old man skin as Hillbilly and then move into a house on the map and defend that house; and if anyone comes near it or such you chase them off the lawn with a chainsaw.
Anyways, I was always under the impression that you could play killer however you wanted and it was fine, but apparently it's a bannable offense. While I personally think that is kinda lame and unfair; I imagine there are others that feel you are "ruining the game" somehow.
Just opening a discussion on this topic since I know I've played meme games a bunch as killer once in a while it helps me de-stress, but I am going to have to stop now that I know it's actually bannable.
How do you guys feel about these kinds of games?
I think your friend fooled you (or you are trying to sell us a story here). Or he got banned for a different reason. How does he even know its because of this one game he played?
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Failed to entertain the Entity enough.
Its the same for survivors dude, if the killer sucks and cant get hooks, you wont pip either as survivor, even tho you won clearly.
This ranking system is not really a ranking system but rather a "entertainmend system". Treat it like this.
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@johnmwarner said:
Sure, call me a bad baby killer noob who can’t apply pressure if you want but NOED is standard now on most killers.
Multiple games as Wraith last night where I found someone almost instantly, surprise hit and quick second hit. Repeat for each survivor and still 5 gens pop with no one dead.
The math just isn’t in your favor to actually 3-hook people before gens pop. And no I don’t want an ez 4K but I very clearly dominate and outclass the survivors I should at least get 2-3
Dude, run noed if you want to. Its a perk, a decent one. You dont have to feel sorry or anything for running that. I would not reccommand it, since there are better options, but if you do well... stick with it.
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@hex_genrush said:
yeah wait 20 mins in q just to sit infront of a gen and get out of the match in 5 minutes and depip to haha
Do you play on console? I really wonder where these 20 min q times are coming from. I just started looking for a lobby, and right while i write this, timer is at 20 seconds. It takes a minute right now, if even. As survivor and killer.
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@gatsby said:
I've been running Thanataphobia Legion for a while to some success, but I finally just bought Clown for Pop Goes the Weasel. OH MY GOD. It's night and day. The Gen Pressure and synergy you can have with Legion+Discordance+Pop is phenomenal.
Now I can scare people off generators and buy time to commit to a chase without automatically losing an important generator. So strong, honestly.
Yes, its a fantastic perk, way better then old ruin for example.
Combine pop with corrupt - you will never ever get genrushed again.
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@Th3Nightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1170542#Comment_1170542
for the covid-19 now the average of players on this game is 50k .... all new players
Does not change that the game is constantly getting bigger and bigger since 2017. At least on PC.
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It does not look like this game is dieing.
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.Average player:
March 2017: 10.000 on average
March 2020: 27.000 on average
And constantly growing.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1169782#Comment_1169782
uhhh yeah no, not even close
What do you mean not even close? From a novel standpoint, IT is pretty much a god in the macroverse where a turtle ramdonly vomitted our universe.
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@GhostofYharnam said:
I doubt it. Steven King followed dbd as well and nothing came of that as of yet.
Yet.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
We already know what comments are going to come next.
Lets have a objective and a matter of factly sober discussion offside of any "but the gens are going to fast..." / "get good baby killer", shall we?
First of all lets talk about value of a generator:
Do you play chess? If so, you might know, that a pawn is worth 1 piece at the beginning of the game. Nobody who understands anything about chess would just randomly sacrifice a bishop for a pawn at the beginning of the game. Now imagine this pawn moves forward. The further he goes, the more valueable he becomes. If he reaches the 7th rank, he is actually even more worth then the bishop, and has even at least the same value as a rook.
We can say the same thing about generators and hooks.
In theory, a hook is worth just about 8% and a generator is worth 20%, since you need 12 hooks as a killer and 5 generators for survior to complete your objective (we ignore now, that survs have to open the exit gate aswell). But these are only numbers. Lets go into detail so you know what i mean.
The first hook might be in fact just the 8%, actually sometimes even less, because of a few factors:
- The playfield is big, generators are spread out on the map
- All 4 survivors are (hopefully) on generators and you can only chase 1 guy at a time
- All pallets are still up
The same games for gens (big playfield, all are working, all the resources for surviors are there)
By nature, the killer has (and has to have) a bad early game, and the reason why this is is because:
From the moment on, the killer hooked the first guy, every next hook becomes more and more valuable, since the dynamic of the game has now drasticly changed: Suffenly it changed from all 4 survs on gens to: 1 Survivor is on the hook, 1 is safing, one is getting chased and one is on a generator. On top of that, pallets got broken, the playfield became significantly smaller due to low value generators that have been done and the killer has constant pressure.
Every generator becomes more and more valueable and harder to do in the middle and late game, but on the contrast, it becomes more and more easy for the killer to get hooks, kills and genpressure for the killer (smaller playfield, less pallets for the survivors, more pressure, more downed people, more room to play for the killer etc.)
Again: It is the NATURE for the game, that the first generators has to pop really quick. If that does not happen because of longer repairtimes, survivors wont stand a chance to succeed the last generators because of already named reasons.
The next question we have to ask us is how to change that? So it will become a more interesting and longer gaming exerpience.
That is the tricky part. And it is not simply done with "Add more pallets but reduce repairspeed". Lets look at this video for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOISGMPxm4Q&t=1sThe killer here, who is doing a few mistakes but overall plays very well, showcased that for these survivors, repairspeed was obvisouly to long, since the killspeed of the killer was way to high.
Lets look at your video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgRwHwnoXmwYou play huntress who strugges in earlygame to apply pressure, you played (sorry to say) pretty bad and chase a survivor (who you should not have chased) into a deadzone where nothing is going on right from the start. I am pretty sure you are aware of this.
But what if we change the game around your need, what will this do with the killers who are really good at the game, like the first guy?
Or how will this change the game for beginners or just really bad players? Just in case you might not know the answer (what i dont believe tho): Survivors wont stand a chance at all. Not the slightest.
Is there anything we can do? I dont think so, unless they rework the whole game and its core concept, all maps, all killers ect.
And the master-question: Is it neccessary? From my POV, absolutly not. Games can go fast, and it can be stressful for the killer if you let it happen to you, but thats about it.
Lets me know what you think about this.
Kind regards
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@MrPeterPFL said:
The Map option isn’t that helpful tbh, the survivors will out number the Killer.
We tried it multible times in kill your friends that we put in 2-4 offerings on the survivor side (McMillian) and the killer throw in The Game. In all our tries, the killer got his map. Appartently, the killer offering counts more then the survivor offering even if you sack the same offering as survivor.
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@snozer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167047#Comment_1167047
Because you should never balance the game on pure potatoes.
We are talking about the potential that a side has here. The potential for survivors is always 3 gens in 80 seconds and then 2 gens in 90 seconds because of the number advantage and how small their goal is. 4 survivors - 5 generators.
Those survivors i faced were potatoes, i give you that. The only reason they went down so fast was because of their missplay and i did not miss.
But then, the killer who played this game was obviously also a potatoe, since it took him at least 1,5 minutes to get a single hook. We should not ballance around that too.
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@Sasorii19 said:
Run Spine Chill, Prove Thyself, Decisive and Urban Evasion with a toolbox or key so you dont have to worry.
"Run Decisive strike" vs a mori. Very good suggestion.
@TunnelVision said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/138668/get-rid-of-moris
Get rid of keys and SWF and we have a deal.
We have a deal with keys but we can not get rid of swf.
@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1168463#Comment_1168463
it can how ever you want to feel about it but, Mori's make killer more fun hands down
How is it more fun to have faster games? Many people are complaining that gens pop so fast and therefore games are over quick, but it is suddenly somehow fun when the killer can end a match extremly fast.
@ASurvkillivorer said:
A survivor can escape if none of the objective gets done. Bet you don't think thats BS.
Keys can be brought in game and award 2 survivors an escape if 3 gens get done. Of course that isn't BS.
The ENTIRE team can escape without opening the exit gate.
4 survivors and 1 killer. Good luck to the killer if the survivors actually intend to counter the fact a mori was brought into the match. Meanwhile the killer doesn't have any counter to a key that the survivors can't just counter back.
Killers also get penalized for BP and rank for using moris. Survivors get rewarded for using keys.
What makes you think the majority of survivors like keys? I bet if they change or remove keys, there wont be much complaining from survivors. Is there really anybody here who think that way?
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166611#Comment_1166611
I partially agree. Why? because the gen speed is a real problem, i would say that most of the times in rank 1... 2 gens pop with your first hooked survivor. And you need 3 hooks to kill someone, there's barely time to get at least 1 kill unless the survivor team is lollygagging the entire match.
So.. of course that less pallets and infinites will give the killer more time but the gens speed is a problem by itself...
You forgot 2 important things. The more gens that were done, the smaller the playfield becomes.
And the most improtant thing: At the beginning the killer has no pressure and so he has to loose a gen or two unless he is lucky and those survivors are stacked on a single gen. Once you find the first survivor and down him, normally 3 people are out of the race constantly from that moment on. 1 is on the hook, 1 going for the safe (maybe even healing afterwards) 1 is getting chased by you, and 1 is on gen. Reduced from all 4 are on gens to maybe 1 on a gen. And it is not uncommong that actually 1 is on hook and 1 is slugged aswell (or somebody is already dead) and they need to recover from that.
Constant pressure, smaller playground, less pallets to work with, less people on gens.
For the ballancing, gen speed is fine. Its not that much fun tho to have quick games, but to increase genspeed or to add an extra objective, devs have to give survivors something in compensation (like more pallets for example).
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@hex_genrush said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ruOWNb8rnnw
All 5 gens done in 3 minutes and 53 seconds, this is unacceptable. If you watch the video you can see that we all split up on gens and got 3 done in the first few minutes of the match.
Nice, you win against a rank 15 oni who has not found out how is power works. If the killer is doing nothing, its obvious gens are getting done very fast. Insert a godly spirit/nurse and the titel would rather be "slugging is a problem"
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@Raccoon said:
How did you find the group of survivors from your spawn and M2 them all (separately, apparently, so Leatherface is out) within 45s?
Why did they all stay near you after the first IF?
The mysteries!
Spill your secrets, further!
NEEEHNEEEHENEEEHNE. seegroupofsurvivorsallspawnedtogetheratkillershack
Dead, Dead, Dead, Dead.
I mean, are you serious, its hillbilly. This not not a miracle and its not the first time someone is winning games with that dude in less then a minute...
And no, not killermain. 50/50 main, but good enough apperently.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167788#Comment_1167788
I disagree. Maps need to have a limited size and allow killers to have fair counterplay in chases for them to be able to compete with the very fast gen times. If maps are too big, killers simply can't effectively pressure survivors off of gens enough to keep up with the fast gen times. Because killers can only be at one place at a time. Therefore, if maps are too big, if the killer is pressuring survivors off of one gen, it's likely survivors are safe to go on any other gen. And again, these gens can be repaired really fast.
Father Campbell's Chapel has a fair size, and has a fair balance between mindgameable pallets and safe pallets, and some good windows as well. Saloon has less safe pallets, but they aren't useless for survivors either, and it has multiple good windows that force the killer to break the nearby walls, plus a pretty safe gen on the upper floor of the saloon. And some good stealth options as well. That map could maybe use a few more pallets though, I admit. I would also really like to see more maps with unsafe pallets right next to each other, which could make for some new and unique loops.
If all maps were balanced around Chapel or Saloon, then the devs still would need to look into some killers. Some of the weakest killers might still need some small buffs, and the top tier killers would probably need some small nerfs. Obviously balance with maps is hard to achieve perfectly if the individual killers still vary in power very much.
Lets agree we disagree.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167047#Comment_1167047
What killer did you use?
Teach us the secret of the 45s 4-man slugs, please.
Hillbilly
The Secret:
Right mousbutton. Down, Infectious Fright.
Right mousebutton. Down. Infectious Fright.
Right mousebutton. Down. Infectious Fright
Right mousebutton. Down. Infectious Fight.
GG WP
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@Raccoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167047#Comment_1167047
Spill your secrets!
Right mousbutton. Down, Infectious Fright.
Right mousebutton. Down. Infectious Fright.
Right mousebutton. Down. Infectious Fright
Right mousebutton. Down. Infectious Fight.
GG WP
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166349#Comment_1166349
Well to be fair many people could also say that your list seems a bit survivor biased as well. Calling the Game extremely killer sided for example, even though it has so many safe pallets. I also wouldn't call Ironworks balanced, it's pretty big and has that insane god window. Same goes for Suffocation Pit.
I would personally also consider Father Campbell's Chapel one of the most balanced maps in the game. Fair size and not too many safe loops, so the killer can apply enough map pressure and have enough counterplay to keep up with the fast gen times, but still enough good pallet and window loops for survivors to work with. And I feel like many agree, though maybe I'm wrong on that one.
The new map also seems well balanced. Most pallets are mindgameable and allow killer to counterplay at those loops, which is how it should be, and the map has a good size, but the map definitely has multiple good window loops that only become less good once the killer breaks the nearby breakable wall, and the map still has a few good pallets as well.
This game's biggest problems at the moment are the maps in my opinion. If all maps were at a similar balance level of Father Campbell's Chapel or Dead Dawg Saloon, I feel like only very few people would still be complaining about the game's gen times and more people would simply enjoy playing killer again. It does also depend on the killer, though, and I would argue that some of the absolute top tier killers would need some small nerfs if most maps were balanced around the balance level of the new map for example. Freddy in particular since he's the one top tier killer who benefits from more balanced maps the most.
True, some maps need some changes, but then again, i see you writing Chapel or Saloon are balanced. Those are killer sided maps. Having only killer sided maps will make the game to much killer sided.
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There is a way to surrender. Open the exit gate.
And if they have not done all 5 gens, then the game is not over.
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@SpaceCoconut said:
and it shouldn't require perks to fix.
Useless footage. Give us the whole game please.
Bye the way i just slugged all survivors within 45 seconds. Why not adressing this "problem"?
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Ash, Ace and Claudette.
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These are my thoughts, what do you think?
I dont see the point of you post tbh or i simply dont get it what you mean. If they implement breakable walls on the already existing maps, what exactly is the problem for the killer? That it takes time to break those breakable walls? I guess if that is the case then the loop was not as bad anyway when you dont have those 2 seconds.
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@SL33PY said:
just had a 4K, 32k bloodpoint, 4 iredescent shard double pip game With the doctor and was told to “stop camping gens“ Now I’m not suppose to tunnel camp hooks or patrol gens? What am suppose to do? Lmao people on this game crack me up. Don’t kick our gens with overcharge and pgtw how are we suppose to finish the gens and tea bag at the gate?
Why do you care about those baby survivors that have no idea how to play the game? I also dont care about baby killers that complain about "looping" or "genrushing".
Play the game the way you want, and patroling gens is a MUST for every killer to win. If those survivors dont understand that, its their problem and they are just bad and have no idea what they are takling about.
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@berzerkfatality said:
How do people honestly think Killer is more difficult. Killer has the most over powdered imbalanced perks. This game is legit trash on xbox atm too with the lag and how killers just all around have the upper hand with hosting the games. why am i playing this game? Im just not having fun with this game anymore with the way people think its balanced. How are you devs so oblivious to the balancing issues going on too? Why i this game still have horrible survivor lag after so many years of being released. FIX YOUR GAME!
First of all, TRUST ME when i say: Pray to god that it stays 2p2 and you dont have to suffer through dedicated servers. I went through both and 2p2 is defintily more survivor friendly then dedicated servers. Having lag sometimes is nothing compared to the stuff we have to go through on pc.
Second, killer is not more difficult but killer is more stressful to play. And i dont think killers have more powerful perks, also survivors have strong perks. Deadhard, Unbreakable, Spine Chill, Iron will, Borrowed time, Decicsive strike, Adrenaline just to name a few.
The game is pretty even especially on console since you dont have to deal with nurse.
May i ask what rank you are and how many hours you have played yet?
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166495#Comment_1166495
If a 2k was a pip for a killer I would be inclined to agree with you, but it's not, a 2k is a safety pip unless it's something like Legion and you just pimped your malicious score to high heaven to compensate for your devout score being in the toilet.
So maybe instead of just worrying about how many kills, we could see how much pressure killers are under to even get a single pip, let alone a double pip, and realize that's part of the problem. If killers could be more comfortable that a 2k is a decent job on their part it might work, but it isn't, it's a 3k minimum with hopefully enough generators protected so your gatekeeper score isn't in the toilet, and let's hope no one decided to die on their first hook screwing your devout score over. Honestly the emblem system in its current state is why no one is buying the "2k is a balanced win for both sides" argument, because survivors can get pips for 1.5 generators worked one, a couple chases, 1-2 unhooks and even get sacrificed AND STILL pip.
Now here's what's funny, you agree with me that insta-heals were overpowered, but what was mettle of man? Admittedly you had to charge it up by taking hits but it was a free extra health state with no indication that you had it. The amount of kills I have lost at endgame because "oh look, he has mettle of man and I had no way to know it" is beyond infuriating.
Balanced landing is still one of the better exhaustion perks, even with the nerf. Does it beat dead hard or sprint burst? Maybe not in overall utility, but it's absolutely destructive if that survivor brings a map offering for something like Haddonfield. To pretend it is somehow useless now is silly.
Oh wow, you think dedicated servers are a benefit for KILLERS? You serious right now? Have you TRIED getting a grab off a generator since dedicated servers have gone live? If you get one, let me know, because the sheer amount of times the grab animation starts only to end abruptly and the survivor just starts to run away is beyond counting at this point. Dedicated servers have been a disaster for BOTH sides, I would never lay that at survivors feet as a benefit to them, and this right here is the clearest indicator of your bias, you assume that because dedicated servers suck for survivors they must be good for killers when they have been just as big of a pain, or even more so, for killers.
And again, in one breath McMillan are pretty even overall, and then magically Shelter woods is "killer sided without a doubt". Okay, how about Ironworks of Infinites or the Groaning Storehouse of "go fornicate yourself" window spawns? Chapel on Crotus Penn is balanced, too bad disturbed ward is about as balanced as a drunk one-legged man. People pretending Saloon is somehow extremely killer sided just because a killer can turn the central loop into something manageable with wall breaks need to get their head examined.
The toolbox change is actually WORSE for killers now, because people front load their toolboxes to get a head start, which is what the new toolboxes are designed for, less charges but more impact on one generator, so once again, generators pop at the first couple mins, putting killers into full sweaty mode. Not to mention survivors get to KEEP toolboxes now upon escape, meaning killers see more and more of them. Again, your ignorance for how changes actually affect killers confirms your bias, because you haven't looked at this stuff from the other side, while I have played survivor on all these maps in question.
And again, I don't need your suggestions on how to compensate for Ruin. As I said in my first post in this thread, most killers have adapted at the red ranks anyway, and most of us haven't used ruin in months or even years because it was red ranks can hit great skill checks. I'm well aware of corrupt intervention and pop, I mentioned pop in my first post, pairs well with thrilling tremors to block off unworked gens, showing you worked ones that will get the best value from your kick regression. I am not the one who was completely boned by Ruin's removal, it's green and even purple rank killers who needed it. The irony is Ruin was destroyed to help newer survivor players, while completely screwing over newer killer players, the result is survivors getting carried to red ranks while killers either quitting or just staying in the green ranks.
Ruin was needed for certain killers and newer killer players to get their bearings in the early game, the removal of it has made killer such a stressful playtime for newer killers that it is turning newer players off and even red rank killer mains just don't want to have every game be a tryhard sweatfest anymore.
So maybe instead of just worrying about how many kills, we could see how much pressure killers are under to even get a single pip, let alone a double pip, and realize that's part of the problem. If killers could be more comfortable that a 2k is a decent job on their part it might work, but it isn't, it's a 3k minimum with hopefully enough generators protected so your gatekeeper score isn't in the toilet, and let's hope no one decided to die on their first hook screwing your devout score over. Honestly the emblem system in its current state is why no one is buying the "2k is a balanced win for both sides" argument, because survivors can get pips for 1.5 generators worked one, a couple chases, 1-2 unhooks and even get sacrificed AND STILL pip.
Its more easy for survivors to pip, but is piping overall really a thing? All i read is "i dont care about the ranking system" and i almost never read that piping is frustrating, because it is meaningless to pretty much anybody anyway. Not saying this should not be fixed, but how is this suddenly now a problem for killers, when they dont care?
Now here's what's funny, you agree with me that insta-heals were overpowered, but what was mettle of man? Admittedly you had to charge it up by taking hits but it was a free extra health state with no indication that you had it. The amount of kills I have lost at endgame because "oh look, he has mettle of man and I had no way to know it" is beyond infuriating.
What was with mattle of man? I dont know what you mean. Like i said, it was overpowered and frustrating for the killer. So it is gone. Killers have now a better gameing experience since this overpowered perk is gone. Everybody was complaining about it rightfully. But hey, it is so much worse for killers now. Better gaming experience for killers since it is gone. You dont agree?
Balanced landing is still one of the better exhaustion perks, even with the nerf. Does it beat dead hard or sprint burst? Maybe not in overall utility, but it's absolutely destructive if that survivor brings a map offering for something like Haddonfield. To pretend it is somehow useless now is silly.
Yes and it is nerfed. Please dont forget the core question i asked in first place and you (thanks for that by the way) tried to answer: Why is every killer suddenly complaining now? When all the devs do is nerfing survivors and let killer be for good or even buffing them (besides the mentoned 2 op killers and 1 perk).
Oh wow, you think dedicated servers are a benefit for KILLERS? You serious right now? Have you TRIED getting a grab off a generator since dedicated servers have gone live? If you get one, let me know, because the sheer amount of times the grab animation starts only to end abruptly and the survivor just starts to run away is beyond counting at this point. Dedicated servers have been a disaster for BOTH sides, I would never lay that at survivors feet as a benefit to them, and this right here is the clearest indicator of your bias, you assume that because dedicated servers suck for survivors they must be good for killers when they have been just as big of a pain, or even more so, for killers.
Maybe we are playing a different game then. Dedicated servers are way worse for survivors, devs even explained it how they work (when ping is fine as intended, when ping is bad in favour for the killer). Have you seen the dev stream? The 10 Million unfair window or pallet hits killers get now since shifting away from p2p compared to the not working grap every once in a while is, sorry... laughable.
And again, in one breath McMillan are pretty even overall, and then magically Shelter woods is "killer sided without a doubt". Okay, how about Ironworks of Infinites or the Groaning Storehouse of "go fornicate yourself" window spawns? Chapel on Crotus Penn is balanced, too bad disturbed ward is about as balanced as a drunk one-legged man. People pretending Saloon is somehow extremely killer sided just because a killer can turn the central loop into something manageable with wall breaks need to get their head examined.
Yes, they are pretty even overall. Shelter woods is more killer sided, Groaning Storehouse is more survivor sided, Ironworks is more even. So yes, overall McMillan is nothing to crazy, they are very ballanced maps. Chapel is not ballanced, it is 100% killer sided. And like i said, disturbed ward is survivor sided (thats what i said in my posting, you just repeat me..) Saloon is killer sided because it is very small, open and on top of it with deadzones and pretty much only unsafe pallets. Loops are a joke with breakable walls aswell. The ammount of hooks is just absurd, sabo for example makes no sense. I have made sceenshots where 3 hooks are right next to each other within less then 15 meters.
And yet, i wonder why killers complain now, when maps are getting clrealy and undeniable more and more killer sided compared to the past.
The toolbox change is actually WORSE for killers now, because people front load their toolboxes to get a head start, which is what the new toolboxes are designed for, less charges but more impact on one generator, so once again, generators pop at the first couple mins, putting killers into full sweaty mode. Not to mention survivors get to KEEP toolboxes now upon escape, meaning killers see more and more of them. Again, your ignorance for how changes actually affect killers confirms your bias, because you haven't looked at this stuff from the other side, while I have played survivor on all these maps in question.
You might be the only person in DbD who thinks that toolboxes are worse now. How is this even possible when they reduced charges from 180 to 32 and "buffed" it from slightly to moderatly faster (which is a speed increase of 2-3%.. you know 2-3% on pretty much nothing) They could have just deleted them overall, they are absolutly useless now compared to the past. Your point makes no sense sorry. A Engineers toolbox has 16 charges which is not even 20% of a generator, with the exact same speed!
There is no room for discussion here and you are just plain wrong here sorry.
The mainquestion why we even have this conversation i appreciate by the way is still not answered. Why do killer mains complain now more and more, when everything goes in favour of the killer beside the ruin nerf?
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@Kwikwitted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166429#Comment_1166429
The change was that before Ruin could actually hamper generator progression while a survivor was working on it, as opposed to now where it does have a significant regression percentage, but only functions when you push survivors off a generator, and immediately stops when they are back on.
As I said in my post (which made this very clear) even if ruin lasted only a minute, that was 60 seconds survivors weren't doing generators while they were looking for a totem, which made the game much more balanced in the early game for killers who had time to find a survivor and get a hook or two before 1-2 generators popped. It also enabled killers with setup time (Trapper, Hag, Myers) to get their power started, either through laying traps or at least stalking to EW2.
As far as Nurse, I never played her so I didn't really feel anything from her change, but the Nurse mains that did play her (and some like Ardetha who still do) have stated the playstyle is just stun simulator with occasional bursts of gameplay, and her blink recharge game has just made her clunky.
Don't know why we're discussing spirit, who hasn't been mentioned in this thread once (same with nurse but I digress) but she was nerfed into a relatively balanced spot and her most infuriating tactic (prayer beads and gen grabbing) was eliminated and people still play her. If anything I see survivors still complaining about spirit when they claim she has "no counterplay" even though she is able to be juked by anyone with the wherewithal to understand when she phases and when she doesn't.
Map reworks and new maps have been killer sided I will agree, but it doesn't stop maps like most of Crotus Penn, Macmillan, Coldwind Farm, and especially Ormond from being infuriating to deal with, whether it's infinite loops, or extremely safe loops that can't be mind gamed, to the sheer size of these maps making even a 3-gen strategy relatively unrealistic. I also take some issue with the idea that Deathslinger's map is completely killer sided, it's got an almost haddonfield level of drops that anyone with balanced landing can destroy a killer on, the breakable walls don't eliminate any loops but just make the central windows no longer borderline infinite, and there is often a balcony next to the outer generators forcing killers to try and mindgame before a survivor jumps down and completely loses them.
Insta-heals were broken and everyone knew it, the idea that you could just ignore a hit from a killer at a critical moment with no warning or ability to counterplay was stupid on its face. Not sure what overpowered survivor perks you are discussing that got nerfed. DS is still 60 seconds of immunity from being hooked regardless of actions after getting hooked, unbreakable still completely counters slugging, adrenaline is still the bane of late game while NOED can be countered through totem cleanses, and dead hard is still the king of making killers tear their hair out as that survivor who was rightly caught just goes "lol nope" and dashes to safety. Which perks got nerfed that you are referring to specifically might I ask?
Based on your comments your bias is clearly survivor sided, and I get it, for survivors the game is probably the best its ever been, particularly with keeping addons upon survival making the BP cost of maining survivor so much less burdensome. Killer players do have legit gripes however, and I would think survivors would realize something is up when red rank survivors are paired with green rank killers, clearly something has gone wrong with a lack of killers at high ranks.
It makes me smile when someone calls me survivor sided. I got blamed for beeing killer sided aswell the either day and in the past.
The only side i am on is the ballance side. I think a 2K on average is a fair outcome of a match but since i play killer a lot, i know for sure that 2k is the absolut minimum i get in every game. I also see it as a survivor that many killer get normally a 2K or better.
Like you say, Instaheals were overpowered, and they are gone. That makes it more easy now for killers.
Well what perks are nerfed? Mettle of men for example. Or Ballanced landing. DH got nerfed through Dedicated server.
Mentioning dedicated servers: What a wonderful gift for killers and what a nightmare for survivors. A big buff for killers without even toughing the game itself.
Yes, the new maps and reworks are killersided, so this is also an improvement for killers. There was no better time for killer according to maps as it is now. Farm got nerfed in the past (walls, corn) for good reason.
Some of your maps your named are actually killer sided. Crotus prenn for example. Chapel is defintily killer sided (while asylum is survivor sided). McMillian are pretty even overall. Ormond, i give you that, that map is definitly survivor sided. But whats up with Game? Lerys? Lab? Shelter Woods? Rotten fields? Sanctum of Wraith? Saloon? Resting place? All killer sided without a doubt. Like i said, maps are getting better and better for the killer. And breakable walls incoming. The toolbox changes? Good for the killer aswell. I can go on and on.
I really thing it is only, and i mean ONLY because of this one perk that is not needed anyway. Ruin.
Use corrupt. Use pop. And dont get nervous when a gen pops quicker then expected.