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@OperationMintyHippo said:
I see streamers and youtubers everyday play this game and even they struggle to keep up with gens. Doesn't seem to matter how fast they get their downs, they still usually get down to open exit gates or one gen left. But also, this is their full time job. They play this game nearly everyday for multiple hours. Yet they still struggle a lot of the time.
So why would I want to play killer after seeing someone way more experienced struggle? "Oh well they're red rank so their survi-" yeah well it doesn't seem to matter what rank I am, I always get red rank survivors as well. I have been taking breaks from this game (unfortunately). Play two hours, disappear for 2 weeks, repeat. I come back to try out the new killer and am rank 14. Still get red ranks lol. So my matches are like these streamers, except I'm not as well equipped to handle it as they are. I work a full time job and have other things to do.
I don't even play survivor anymore because the matches are so fast and boring.
Honestly who would want to play killer anymore though. Who enjoys this.
I enjoy it, acutally more then ever. And i dont understand all the complains here. What did they really change that makes killer mains so upset? Ruin? A perk that got cleansed within 30 seconds. Nurse? A totally broken auto 4K killer. Still extremly strong. Spirit? More then needed, also still very strong.
Map reworks and new maps are all favouring the killer or are at least even, Instaheals are history, many overpowered survivor perks are nerfed. New killers are all very good. We have the time of our DbD live, but many of us are upset because of nothing.
Stop the mimimi and enjoy the game.
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@Todgeweiht said:
I am seeing a lot of discussions on the forum revolving around deathslinger and I am honestly surpised how mixed the opinions are on him, there is people saying he is in the bottom 5 of the killer tier list and others saying he is completely busted and has no counterplay.
The way I see it, he is a decent killer, not really bad, but not the one I would use every match at rank one, he can sometimes be frustrating to play as and against due to the miniscule and unpredictable hitbox of his harpoon.
What are your opinions on him? Too strong? Too weak? Balanced?
Why do you think that way about him?
Opinion
Chase way to strong
Map pressure way to weak.
The worst killer they have designed since Legion 1.0
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@Coder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1166307#Comment_1166307
Have you read the last line on my original post? :-)
And yet i still wanna know. This sounds like a list of a killer main that has not played survivor a lot, thats why i am asking.
"Dont be entitled" goes both ways.
Here is my list, i play both roles 50/50.
MacMillan Estate
- Coal Tower: even.
- Groaning Storehouse: slightly Survivor sided
- Ironworks of Misery: Even
- Shelter Woods: Killer sided
- Suffocation Pit: even
Autohaven Wreckers
- Azarov's Resting Place: very killer sided
- Blood Lodge: slightly survivor sided
- Gas Heaven: even
- Wretched Shop: slightly survivor sided
- Wreckers' Yard: even
Coldwind Farm
- Fractured Cowshed: survivor sided
- The Thompson House: very survivor sided
- Torment Creek: survivor sided
- Rancid Abattoir: slightly survivor sided
- Rotten Fields: slightly Killer sided / even
Crotus Prenn Asylum
- Disturbed Ward: very survivor sided
- Father Campbell's Chapel: very killer sided
Haddonfield
- Lampkin Lane: very survivor sided
Backwater Swamp
- The Pale Rose: Even
- Grim Pantry: Survivor sided
Léry's Memorial Institute
- Treatment Theatre: extremly Killer sided
Red Forest
- Mother's Dwelling: Survivor Sided
- The Temple of Purgation: Even
Springwood
- Badham Preschool: Even
Gideon Meat Plant
- The Game: Extremly Killer Sided
Yamaoka Estate
- Family Residence: Even
- Sanctum of Wrath: Killer sided
Ormond
- Mount Ormond Resort: Very survivor sided
Hawkins National Laboratory
- The Underground Complex: Extremly Killer sided
Grave of Glenvale
- Dead Dawg Saloon: very Killer sided, tending towards extremly killer sided
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@Nescau said:
MacMillan Estate
- Coal Tower: mostly even.
- Groaning Storehouse: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided if god window spawns)
- Ironworks of Misery: very Survivor sided
- Shelter Woods: Survivor sided
- Suffocation Pit: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided if god window spawns)
Autohaven Wreckers
- Azarov's Resting Place: mostly even
- Blood Lodge: very Survivor sided
- Gas Heaven: Survivor sided
- Wretched Shop: very Survivor sided
- Wreckers' Yard: Survivor sided
Coldwind Farm
- Fractured Cowshed: very Survivor sided
- The Thompson House: Survivor sided
- Torment Creek: very Survivor sided (extremely Survivor sided if god window spawns)
- Rancid Abattoir: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided if god window spawns)
- Rotten Fields: Billy sided
Crotus Prenn Asylum
- Disturbed Ward: very Survivor sided
- Father Campbell's Chapel: mostly even (possibly the most balanced map in the game)
Haddonfield
- Lampkin Lane: extremely Survivor sided
Backwater Swamp
- The Pale Rose: Survivor sided
- Grim Pantry: very Survivor sided
Léry's Memorial Institute
- Treatment Theatre: varies a lot depending on map layout and Killer.
Red Forest
- Mother's Dwelling: Survivor sided
- The Temple of Purgation: Survivor sided
Springwood
- Badham Preschool: all version are very Survivor sided (used to be extremely Survivor sided before rework)
Gideon Meat Plant
- The Game: Survivor sided (I'm aware this is an unpopular opinion)
Yamaoka Estate
- Family Residence: Survivor sided (very Survivor sided against Killers weak to stealth)
- Sanctum of Wrath: ??? (I don't know yet. Didn't play enough to judge)
Ormond
- Mount Ormond Resort: Survivor sided
Hawkins National Laboratory
- The Underground Complex: Entity sided (miserable experience for both sides)
Grave of Glenvale
- Dead Dawg Saloon: too early to tell
Have you ever played survivor?
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Oni nerf? Not needed. He is strong and he can snowball hardcore, but his early is just weak.
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Nerf in chase, buff in mappressure.
Will be hard for the devs to ballance this guy.
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He does not need a nerf, he simply need some changes.
Give him more mappressure, but nerf his chase potential.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165384#Comment_1165384
As S tier ? Probably only Infectious Fright and Pop. Discordance and Corrupt Intervention are too situational in my experience to be anywhere near close to S tier, there are matches where these perks are literally useless, so I can't bring myself to put them higher than B tier. Ruin is still a totem which is at the mercy of RNG and good survivors can work though it more effectively than they could work though old Ruin, so I definitely don't see it anywhere near close to A tier without Surveillance in combo with it. Surge has too many restrictions to be considered a decent perk.
I appreciate your response and i accept your opinion since you have some good points. I still think you underestimate the power of Discordance and Corrupt a little bit.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165451#Comment_1165451
6 meters is almost nothing. I'm not convinced you'll get any meaningful information from Hangman's Trick unless someone is going for a sabotage.
But hooks are everywhere, like i said i might have been lucky tho, but in my recent tries, i got all the time information.
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@BlueFirebilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165451#Comment_1165451
Haggu with Dank Devotion, Nurses, STBFL, Corrupt. It’s otz’s build and I tried it and it does absolute wonders, 3k-4K every time
Thanks a lot, i will try that out today. Haggu = Hag i suppose?
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@ZaKzan said:
as a killer, even the strongest killers, you have to rely on survivors making mistakes for you to win. If you mess up a couple of blinks as nurse or do not predict accurately enough with spirit, you will lose against a team of good survivors. You have to play flawlessly or near flawlessly as a killer, and as a survivor you don't really need to play flawlessly since you can also run a plethora of second chance perks to make up for your mistakes.
Killer perk idea: Dead lunge. Every 40 seconds the killer can initiate a lunge with their basic attack that travels up to 3x the distance of a regular lunge.
The power role has always been and always will be the survivor. If you die as a survivor it's one of three things: The killer tunneled you, you made a mistake, your team mates are bad. A good killer is just someone who will capitalize the most from survivor mistakes. If the survivors do not make many mistakes, the killer loses.
I really dont think that this is entirely true. It depends ofc a lot which killer you play and also on what map you are, but in general, Spirit and Nurse will win, even the best team can not do anything against the best Spirit / Nurse. Been there.
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@Khroalthemadbomber said:
I agree with most of those except for Gearhead. If they had kept it as it was on the PTB then yes it would be where you have it residing. However it only lasts 30 seconds, and it only works on good skillchecks.
As I stated in my post about this change, it's got part of the problem that instigated the change to Ruin: newer players are going to be affected immensely and veteran players won't have to worry about bubkis.
So with that in mind I feel like it should be knocked to either C or D tier.
I must admit that i have used this perk just a few times, not more then 5 times actually, but it left a solid impression, sure not amazing tho, but i got value out of it. Probably i will try this one out more frequently and i keep your objection in mind.
@BlueFirebilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165407#Comment_1165407
There are certain builds where it is amazing
Which one for example? You know more about that perk then i do apparently. Change my mind :)
@TAG said:
Hangman's Trick in B? With all due respect, why?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165370#Comment_1165370
This I mostly agree with, except I would personally put Corrupt closer to C.
I was suprised how strong Hangmans trick is. I always get some good information. If they would increase the radius just a bit, it would be overpowered from that far i have seen. Ballanced perk in my opinion, pretty good actually. But maybe i was lucky idk? The change is relative new so ofc i might be wrong.
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@BlueFirebilly said:
How dare you do that to Dank devotion
What did i do with it? :(
Its a bad perk unfortunatly. I never find it useful as a killer and it does not do a lot when i play survivor (i have to admit i noticed this perk maybe a handful of times)
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@Marcus said:
Discordance and Corrupt Intervention are once again overrated, I would give them a B at best.
Ruin in A tier and Surveillance in B tier ? Ruin is useless without Surveillance.
STBFL is not consistently good to give it a S, I would personally put it in A.
Surge, Thanatophobia and Bitter Murmur should be in C tier.
Play With Your Food should be B tier. It's pretty bad on its own and needs Nemesis in order to really shine.
I would put Mindbreaker in D tier.
I could see Retribution and Third Seal in B tier, they can be amazing in some games. But they also can be useless on others, so C tier maybe isn't that bad for them.
Oh no, Discordance and especially Corrupt are definitly among the best perks. Which perk should beat those? And B Tier? Just absolutly no on that one.
Ruin is still a good standalone perk, even without Surviallance. It might have on some killers more value then on others tho.
STBFL is by many good killers considered one if not the best perk in the game. I think it is the best killer perk, ofc not on killers like nurse, but defniitly on any M1 killer.
Surge is underrated by you.
Thanatophobia... well i can give you that, i was not sure either if i may overrate it here or not. Its working on some very well, but on other killers its really not that amazing.
I always thought Bittter is a very weak version of BBQ, but during my last games with it, i changed my mind quiet a bit. The big plus is especially the last 10 seconds when you can see those auras.
Hm Mindbreaker, maybe you are right with that one. I never find it super uesful, but i think there are still worse then this perk. As a killer i find it trash, but as survivor i see it has some inpact.
May i ask what your S Tier killer perks are?
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@ChiTenshi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165328#Comment_1165328
No no, I mean I cant find the following in OP: "These lists a especially useful for people who start playing killer or want to play flex and dont know what kind of perks to go first."
I add it for you
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In my first posting
"I am well aware that this is a very subjective and a bit complicated topic since on some killers a certain perk might be really good while it is on other killers bad or almost useless"
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@ChiTenshi said:
Not so keen on these overall killer tier lists. Generalises too much even though a perks effectiveness varies from Killer to Killer.
A better way to approach this would be separate tier lists for each Killer.
These lists a especially useful for people who start playing killer or want to play flex and dont know what kind of perks to go first. Like i mentioned in the OP.
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@Tactless_Ninja said:
Tier lists are disingenuous. Doesn't take into account every variable.
Spies from the Shadows is S-tier on Lery's for example.
I am well aware that this is a very subjective and a bit complicated topic since on some killers a certain perk might be really good while it is on other killers bad or almost useless. It also depends a bit on each ones playstyle, so feel free to disagree and let us know what you think. I am pretty sure, there is some room for debate ;)
I was judging the perks by its own, but also kept in mind the potential when combined together.
I disagree that spies is S tier on Lerys. Maybe A tier before the nerf, now B tier. But there are also some maps where it is totally useless why i did not rate it that high.
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Updated Tier list 2020
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@Codela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165227#Comment_1165227
I merely tried to relativise your statement "one of the most shameless and disrespectul things" to the things which are far more disrespectul and almost equally common in our community.
I didn't say you were referring to post chat. But, I think that if we discuss t-bagging and someone connects that to "the most shameless and disrespectul things", we must not exclude death or cancer/sickness wishes since they, too, are sadly part of our gaming culture. And I think it's completely legitimate to bring it up in this case. I tried to show that there are worse things than t-bagging at the exit games - that's all.
About cause and effect, I'm fully on your side. That's why I wrote: "That said, if you t-bag at the exit gate, don't expect the killer to understand it as means of saying goodbye. One cannot be that naive."
Lastly, I think we can agree on the fact that, generally speaking, t-bagging is toxic. Personally, I think there are some circumstances in DbD under which I think t-bagging is not to be understood as toxic but that would go to far right now.
Yes we can agree on that. And yes ofc wishing somebody death is worse, but like i said, i did not even took this into consideration at all. Those kind of people have to get banned obviously.
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@Codela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1165210#Comment_1165210
Hold on, wait a minute.
"one of the most shameless and disrespectul things" - You can't be truly serious about this, can you?
You know what's really disrespectul and shameless? Wishing for someone to "f** die", wishing for someone to get cancer, telling female players to "just grow a thick skin" which has been the case in a thread some time ago, telling the devs to go f* themselves or calling them incompetent when they're working their butts off to save whatever can be saved in this community and so much more. All of those points are so much more disrespectul than spamming one goddamn key.
OP said that for him, t-bagging is a sign of saying "goodbye" to the killer. If you don't buy it, don't buy it. But don't twist and pervert his statement with your own understanding and perception of t-bagging.
That said, if you t-bag at the exit gate, don't expect the killer to understand it as means of saying goodbye. One cannot be that naive.
Stay safe out there.
His "understanding" of tbaging is absolutly irrelevant, it is part of our gaming culture that it has a totally different meaning (i dont explain this here, just google it if you are not aware) then saying "good bye" and it is exclusive for toxic reason.
If tbaging means good bye, then showing my middlefinger can also mean now "have a nice day" since it is my personal interpretation. I hope you get the point.
Where did i mention post chat? Do we really have to discuss about if wishing someone death is aweful? I dont even considere this. But whats the point? Both things are very disrespectful and wishing someone cancer is bannable.
Apparently many killers take it personal when someone tbags, which is totally understandable. I dont believe, the OP is not aware of this.
Nobody has to complain if he gets camped after tbaging. And nobody has to complain if someone shows somebody the middlefinger and then gets treated the way around. Cause and effect, that simple.
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@MissBehavingX said:
So, I just came across a killer who face camped me at the beginning of the game, when I messaged the killer he said he was doing it because I was being toxic. I got confused since I was literally on a gen and the game had just started. Turns out he made a list of the people that have tbagged him at the exit doors. Yes, he made a LIST of people tbagging at the doors. Not because they were toxic in game, not because they were tbaggin during a chase, or messing with him. Nope. He got salty cause survivors tbag at the doors.
I never tbag in game, ii have at the doors just cause at this point is tradition, not because I wanna "tilt" the killer, to me is more of a "byee" kinda thing.
Damn, this dude actually checks his list when joining a lobby :´D
So you tbaged that dude at the exit gate, one of the most shameless and disrespectful things you can do in DbD and you are now wondering that you get camped?
I see, you have not learned your lesson, since you come here and brag (?) about that.
May i ask why you tbag anyway? Do you think this is funny or are you a fan of Ochido? I dont get this really, i would feel so embaressed if i had to be toxic in a video game.
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@gatsby said:
Iron Will seriously confuses Killers in chases. Anyone who plays Killer will tell you that they pay just as much attention to sound cues as to what they can see.
If you have Iron Will equipped, it is significantly easier to mindgame Killers and escape chases. That's the reason that Iron Will is so strong. But only high rank survivors or ones that have significant experience playing both sides would know that. Most people would just think its a mediocre stealth perk like urban evasion or something.
Iron Will is one of the best perks in chases for sure but you are right, many people still underestimate its potential.
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/694/PXV51B49C6PB.png
I could take or leave NOED being part of this deal but Kindred really does feel like it should be a base perk (at least for solo players). I do think it would make a huge impact on closing the advantage gap that SWF has over the poor solos.
Well i think Killers should get something in return too. The major complain is that gens are going to fast.
With this basekit change, survivors would know that the killer has noed at the end, so they will most likley cleanse totems aswell which will slow the game a bit down. If they dont do, they will have a more difficult endgame. Fair deal in my opinion.
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Is this 100% achievements? I play on PC tho
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@NursesBootie said:
My favourite perk build with it is:
- "Off the Record"
- "Second Wind"
- "We'll make it"
- "Borrowed Time"/an exhaustion perk
As item you can use a medkit to make sure to be healthy if wind is not ready and record goes off.
Cool build i like it. So the sense is, you can unhook someone even right in front of the killer, he can smack you down and you have a far better chance to escape from that hook after beeing unhooked.
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1163580#Comment_1163580
Breakable walls so far on the new map seem like thrown down pallets lmfao. If they add them like that to everywhere,it's better without 'em. There is alot more survivor favored maps than killed favored which you can't deny. Any insanely good survivor team will beat a good killer,if they communicate as a swf accordingly and don't mess up. Most toxicity comes from the survivors,atleast from my experience. There is alot of toxic killers aswell,but it's 4 against 1. Pretty sure most toxicity comes from the surv side cause of that aspect :/
I dont know about that tbh if there are really more survivor sided maps. I guess that is just about personal preference. According to escape rates, there are more killer sided maps (pretty much all of them). But thats a different topic.
A insanly good survivor team will loose 10/10 games vs a really good nurse for example, maybe they win on The game or Lerys frequently, but thats it.They might win most of the games vs everything weaker then Freddy, Hag, Spirit, Huntress and Nurse tho. But it is hard to tell, those scenarios almost never happen. I (almost) never loose a game as killer (loosing is below 2K in my book, i dont care about pips) maybe 1 game out of 20, which makes me thing that i am either so good (i highly doubt since i still make mistakes) or it is not as difficult as many people claim (which i strongly believe).
Like i said, i dont think toxic behaviour is not one-sided. When i am the killer i see toxicity and when i play survivor i see the same. Actually if i had to pick a side, i would say killers are more toxic. But again that could be just me, i really try to play fair and i never do anything very toxic like headshaking or facecamping.
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3 gens have to be repaired (2 gens left) so it can spawn when 2 people are alive
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@AhoyWolf said:
Use OoO since your aura cannot be read by the Killer, so you basically get a free aura reading for 80 seconds.
Or use Breakdown so you know where the Killer is for 6 seconds, also it Destroys the hook for 3 minutes.
I like those ideas, especially the OoO variation. Ty
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1163522#Comment_1163522
I mean you have so many ######### stuff killers have to deal with(god loops,bad map design/size,insanely good teams,toxicity,etc....) it's not just the survivor side that feels unfun at times.
God loops. There are some, especially infinites on some main buildings. Breakable walls incoming.
Bad Maps. True, Red Forrest is to big for example. But survivors have even worse maps, look at Game or Lab. Horrible survivor maps, great for killers.
Insanly good teams are nothing to be done against. They are just good. There are also insanly good killers.
I see toxcicity on both sides, equaly. Not a killer problem at all.
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@NoShinyPony said:
Start playing killer on a regular basis, it will change your view on things.
Or play killer and agree with what he says?
Mori and Iri head Huntress are op. Wanna deny that?
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@Junebug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1163344#Comment_1163344
Those maps are all interesting and unique in their design. Asylum is "what if red forest had a bigger house"
Lab has the lowest escape rate of all maps. Sure, it is unique, but far from interesting and especially far from beeing ballanced.
Also, Crotus prenn and red forest are now where near compareable.
While Red Forest is the biggest map with over 12.000 m², Disturbed has barly more then 11.000 and Chapel not even 9.000m². Also the design is totally different.
Red Forest is actually a good point, this is a map that needs some overlook way more then Crotus in my opinion.
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I like both versions of this map, both as a killer and survivor.
Better talk about Game, Lerys and especially Lab.
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@Seltas0208 said:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BO-3W4hj4vc
27 seconds for one gen. 27. With only one toolbox and one prove thyself .
How the heck did that manage to get into the game? Is the concept of having an early game just gone to rot in a dumpster fire ?
When it happened otz even he sounded worried, otz. One of the best killer players. In the end if he hadn't had stblf , if the person on the shoulder was struggling. He might've only gotten 2 kills. When he's trying his best. Otz.
How's your average Joe or Josephine supposed to deal with this?
Thats the way it is and it has to be unfortunatly. If survivors are together, they are able to finish the first gen in less then 30 seconds. Is this a big deal? No, absolutly not.
He was playing clown, the killer with the weakest map control. On the biggest map. Without Corrupt Intervention. If he had a different killer on a smaller map and Corrupt, this would have never ever happend. Even if it would have been the same map and the same killer, Corrupt alone would have done the job.
Otz chose a different approach to play this round, and it payed off in the end. When you go for some build like that, you have to pay the price, but you get value on somewhere else.
Also, you overestimate Otz. He is good, but for sure not one of the best killers in the game.
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@TheSpartan said:
Claudette or Jake? They both seem fun but idk if i should do both or just one. I would rather do one since its less time for having to grind bp because i wanna lvl up to p3 50. I would like to do one of them as my 2nd main because i already main someone to begin with. And id just like another choice ( option ) of someone else to main so it i dont get bored.
Thanks.
So it has to be either Jake or Claudette? I would go for Claudette, she is obviously smaller then Jake and her cosmetics give her some advantage.
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Thats how much they work:
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@TheLastGreatStar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161659#Comment_1161659
Like every killer, he has his weaknesses. I’ve managed to duke plenty of Deathslingers and avoid being harpooned. I think maybe the problem lies with you if you’re struggling so much against him? Spirit and Billy are a lot stronger than he is. I play him over them because I think he’s more fun. I still have to earn my 4Ks. He doesn’t just do the work for you.
What rank are you? As I’ve had plenty of high rank survivors manage to avoid being shot by me. Bait my shots at windows etc. You just need to use your brain. If you’re being destroyed by him constantly, as I said earlier, the problem is you.
Every killer has weaknesses, his weakness is gen pressure like i said. You managed to duke Deathslingers because they did mistakes. You have no control about if he hits you or not, since there is no reacting to that. Predicting the shot does not help either, he can react to that. There is no problem with me beeing bad or anything, i am not perfect, but definitly one of the better survivors around and a good understanding of the game overall(no braging intended, but it is just the truth). Dont get me wrong, i have no problem versus deathslinger in general, since thank god most of them are still bad with him, but those who are already decent with him show how absolutly silly strong he is. And i dont have to be a furtune teller to know that soon all of them will be at that level and some even above.
Billy is stronger because he is ver fast, has a lot of map pressure and therfore a lot more control of the game overall. In chase, lol no he is not stronger then Deathslinger. Bilyl can be looped, even really good billys with great mechanical skills can get loops at least for decent ammount of time. That is not the case with Deathslinger. Like i said, he is like old legion in a strange way.
Spirit is same as billy. She has higher mobility with her power and therfore more genpressure. In chase, Deathslinger and Spirit are equaly overpowered, but at least you have a theoretical chance to juke or mindgame a Spirit, which again, is not the case with Deathslinger.
What rank i am? As always rank 1 on both side, took me almost a day to reach it this time. Another reverence you want? I just boosted a rank 20 to rank 1 within a week. A REAL rank 20 btw :P
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@TheLastGreatStar said:
He’s fine the way he is.
He can be strong during chases and denying loops, just like Clown can. But he’s slow and has almost no map pressure. Gens still pop ridiculously fast when playing as him. Plus, shouldn’t killers be STRONG? I’ll never understand that argument. Do people just want really easy killers to go against so they can abuse every loop, pallet and then tea bag in the exit gate? It seems a lot of people don’t like that he can end toxic gameplay. Leave Mr. YeeHaw alone. We finally have a killer that’s exciting to play as and against.
He can not be strong during chases, he is strong during chases. Yes he is slow and has no map pressure, and this leads to Genrush vs Ultra high kill speed. And this is in my book the most boring thing i can possible imagine in DbD.
"Plus, shouldnt be a killer STRONG?" God no, he should be ballanced in a decent way that he is fun to play as and fun to verse. I HATE playing as him, since i want to have decent chases. Whats the point in those braindead mini chases?
And no, it is absolutly not exciting to play against him, why do you think that way? Whats excited about hiding and genrushing and have 20 seconds "chases" vs a good Deathslinger?
I stoped playing survivor right now and focus only on playing killer, since this guy is absolutly uninteresting to verse (and i get him 50% of my games for obvious reasons).
#NooldLegion2.0tyglhfbye
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161625#Comment_1161625
Actually I really do think survivors want easy killers they can loop and bully.
No, survivors want killers with counterplay. Deathslingers counterplay is Genrush. This is not a great exerpience for both sides, isnt it?
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@OldHunterLight said:
So I've been playing as deathslinger, it really is too strong, people complain about freddy being op and easy mode, but in my opinion deathslinger is easier to play as than freddy.
And I have also been playing against him as a survivor, he really is strong, maybe I'm playing against him the wrong way but he counters almost every loop possible.
Maybe, I can get some tips and tricks to play against him because as of now I haven't won a single game against him, but I can easily play as him.
I just want to finish these annoying survivor archive challenges.
He reminds me off old legion. Gets genrushed, but survivors does not stand a chance is chase. He simply ignores every possible defense you have as a survivor. The only thing you can hope for is that the killer has bad aim zbh. His quickscope isjust way to powerful.
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1161488#Comment_1161488
this game would be boring if everything was mediocre and "fair". they're both part of the game imo. and they are rare, it's not like you're gonna encounter them every match
I disagree with your opinion here, the devs always should aim for balance no matter what. It is not fun and interesting when you have to be loaded with the best stuff to stand a chance.
A Red mori is definitly not rare at all, i can play every match with either a red or a green mori for the rest of my DBD life and i will never run out. Both of them are 100% win conditions.
Same with keys. Use plunders and you get in almost every match a key if you keep looting those chests. You also get more then enough keys from the bloodweb.
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@Impermanent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160365#Comment_1160365
See... it’s this kind of player... the arrogance... that kills teams. They play injured, get downed, their teammate crouches by the hook for the BT or DS save... another gets downed... the game gets lost and they blame it on the less aggressive players. They don’t play smart, they play cocky. I’m not saying this style of play can’t work. I am saying that it’s just as much a cause of lost games as bad play with self care and UE...
I think what he is trying to say is that he has to get good.
At rank 1 level, i really think Self-Care is not working. You verse the best killers and there is simply no time to heal yourself for more then half a minute. If you do so, you are hindering the team. And if you get downed super quick, then you dont belong to this rank. They should just make it harder for survivors to rank up.
On lower levels, SC might be an option tho since killers are not that good, especially bad pressuring gens and making mistakes at loops.
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@toxicmegg said:
keys are a fair part of the game just like moris. deal with it
Both are not ballanced, and both need to be changed. And no, Keys are Moris are far away from beeing fair.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160609#Comment_1160609
Nurse has her own flaws where someone can dodge blinks, an i'm not talking hacking or cheating. I'm saying the best players in the world.
If we shift away from Perfect AI Level of play to Perfect human level of play without wallhack, then there are mindgames involed and your example with chess is not working anymore.
So, if a perfect human player would play the killer vs a perfect human team, Nurse still wins all the time since you can not dodge a blink as you say. Remember, we are talking also about a perfect killer player.
The same would be with spirit. You can not mindgame a spirit and chases would end way to quick.
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@Zaitsev said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1160568#Comment_1160568
Hold on. Let me get this straight. You want Deathslinger to be nerfed. You complain about the unplayable buggy mess that is the Nurse, and you dont even mention Freddy.
Yes that is correct, but i dont want him to be nerfed, i want him to be changed. Deathslinger is like old Legion. There was nothing you could do to stop him in chase, but he just got genrushed. This kind of killer is very unfun to play as and to verse.
The "unplayable" nurse...? I am a pc player, you are apparently a console player. On my plattform, the nurse is still the best killer by far.
Freddy is very strong and maybe his snares should be nerfed a bit or at least the cooldown of his teleportation idk. He is definitly not as much of a problem as Nurse or deathslinger.
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Spine Chill aswell. Why? Because its the best.
Other strong perks i love to use: Iron Will, Object of Obesession, DH, DS
Perks that are not so good but i like for some reason: Stake out, Diversion
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@MegaGamer_01 said:
I'm a killer main with survivor on the side. Rank 7 for Killer and Rank 12 for survivor
Who is the strongest killer in the game?
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@Mo4ntus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1159145#Comment_1159145
But in chess ultimately the goal is the same for both sides and both sides have the exact same power and rule set
That makes it only harder to ballance. Just because it is a asymmetical game does not mean, there is no way to perfectly ballance it.
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@Reinami said:
WARNING: Long post ahead.
I played a game last night that made me realize something. After dealing with gen rushing all night and either getting red rank sweaty SWF, or random potatoes that i 4ked in a few minutes, I realized what the problem is with this game. There is so much anger between both sides and nobody seems to really know why. Killers talk about how hard it is dealing with gen rush, keys, DS/BT. Survivors talk about how OP killers are constantly asking for nerfs and complaining about tunneling, camping, mori.
None of that matters, because this game has some serious flaws. These flaws are what is causing this division, and the devs have a serious problem on their hands that i'm not sure how they can fix due to how the game is designed.
I have been pretty outspoken about how awful the Ruin nerf has been and how frustrating this game can be for killers, but i have changed my mind about it. I think the ruin nerf was a good thing although not for the reasons you might think. The problem with Ruin is all about some points addressed in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw
At high level play, ruin was a minor annoyance, because high level players can hit great skill checks in their sleep, and they can get it off the map within 30 seconds of the game starting. At low level play, ruin was a complete nightmare, and would basically always result in a loss unless it was found quickly.
But, this got me thinking more about the game, and i came to realize something. This game is not BALANCED. Now bear with me, i don't mean like "lol this game isn't balanced x is OP, y thing is bad." I do, but only sort of, and i mean so in a constructive way. First, let me preface this by saying, this game is really hard. Like, really really hard. Think back to when you first started and how hard survivor was. I think we were lucky to get 1 or 2 gens to pop when my friends and i started playing. We looped killers for maybe 10 seconds at most and always thought they were so OP.
Now, think to super high level play, where most killers will tell you that the game is a constant uphill battle, and they always feel behind. This of course being compounded by the ruin nerf (great skill checks now giving huge bonuses to high ranking players). I'm sure some survivor mains will go "lol cry more baby killer, go use NOED, or tunnel/camp etc." But think about it for just a few minutes.
Alot of these problems are masked by how much of a snowball this game can become. It is really easy for a game to end in just a couple minutes if either side makes a huge mistake.
This Game Is Not Balanced.
I want to look at another game for just a moment that i am rather fond of. Chess.
I feel chess is a great example for this for several reasons. It is a highly competitive game and has some interesting nuances that matter a lot more as you get better at the game. For example, at high level play the general rule is it is a bit easier to get a win out as white due to 1st move advantage, and black is generally playing to equalize early on. This is because White inherently has an advantage while attacking due to the first move. However, this advantage isn't absolute or even perfect, even with first move advantage the game is still pretty BALANCED. What i mean is that, at super high level play, draws are extremely common. This person on quora explains it a bit: https://www.quora.com/Is-chess-a-draw-with-perfect-play-by-both-players.
The 2 main points i want to make from the above article are this:
Correspondence Chess: In correspondence chess, people typically trade moves off several DAYS at a time through email (back in the old days it was through the mail). The draw problem is insanely bad there, especially at the top level. A recent article on ChessBase (Correspondence Chess – the draw problem) shows that over 1,512 recent top level games, the draw rate is an astonishing 82.3% of games. In fact, as the article notes, people are seriously throwing around alternative scoring systems.
Cyborg Chess: This is where humans & computers play together at normal time speeds. Internet Chess Club's recent Ultimate Chess Championship was covered here: https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-perfect-algorithm-for-chess-where-computer-can-defend-every-move in John Fernandez's answer to "Is there a perfect algorithm for chess, where computer can defend every move?". 25 of the 28 games were drawn, for a draw rate of 89.3%
The highest quality chess in the world is seeing an 80%-90% draw rate, and this is increasing! Pretty damn clear evidence that in the highest quality of chess, over a hundred years of analysis by humans and computers, that chess is a draw..
Now, how does this relate to DBD? Well, what is the "draw" rate of a game where both sides play 100% perfectly? I'm talking chess engine level and pro player play. The top 100 in the world. In my experiences playing, during a "perfect play" scenario killers would have a rough time. Basically a game would result in the killer almost immediately finding someone, then starting a chase. Then the killer would continue chasing the person while they run, perfectly mind you, from pallet to pallet. Remember, mindgames aren't a thing, as both sides are playing perfectly. The killer would likely drop chase early to pressure gens, but then the survivor would immediately jump back onto the objectives. Survivors would then, avoid areas where pallets have been wasted unless they are sure the killer is elsewhere. I'd argue that in a perfect play scenario that we would not see the "draw" that the devs are hoping for in a 2K/2E game. We would likely see the killer get very few, if any hooks, and all 4 survivors escaping.
Now, you might be asking why this matters, i'm talking about levels of play that most people won't ever achieve. Why does it matter? Because it means that,as the players get better and better, the game is going to be more and more survivor sided. But, due to how the game is designed, it's a hard problem to solve. If they start buffing killers to make that 2K/2E happen in perfect play and we start seeing true draws, then the lower level players would have a terrible time. 0 chance of escaping a game, likely only 1-2 gens popped (if any).
The problem is the disparaging difficulty of this game depending on your skill level. Devs need to take a hard look at the design of this game, and try and solve this problem. Because if we ever truly want a world where the game feels good. It needs to be "balanced" for perfect play, but also allow room for lower skilled players and new players to have a chance. In a perfect world with a team of "1500 elo survivors" and a "1500 elo" killer the game should still end in a draw statistically more often then it does now.
SWF compounds this problem even more. Imagine this scenario.
- The survivors are on comms.
- They simply take ZERO risks. The moment they hear the heartbeat (or spot you if you’re a stealth killer) they bolt like a frightened little mouse ensuring the chase takes the absolute longest possible amount of time, whilst telling the other survivors the killer is now distracted, get back on the gen.
- They loop, but they take ZERO chance of getting hit at any pallet and don't bother to mindgame. They drop it immediately as an obstruction and already know exactly which loop they’re next running to depending on if the killer does or doesn’t break the pallet.
- it becomes apparent (as 1 or 2 gens pop) that this chased survivor is going to be untouchable while the other gens will continue to pop.
- Killer abandons the chase to find a different survivor.
- Survivor 2, 3, and 4 just rinses and repeats the above scenario.
Yes this may seem like pallets are “wasted”, but at the rate of survivor efficiency it’s impossible for the killer to expect to get to endgame and have it a be barren pallet wasteland even if the killer DID break dropped pallets, AND the killer will have probably wasted more time doing so. There will still be many MANY pallets available to the survivors at this point of the game, and they’ll just use the exact same strategy for one of the exit gate switches.
It's plain to see that the math simply does not add up. If a survivor literally just holds "W" the entire time and gets hit twice before down, combined with finding the initial survivor, and grabbing and hooking, the amount of time that takes is easily 40-50 seconds. This is enough for half a gen to pop. even if the killer knows exactly where they are, with walk speed, 3 gens would nearly be done if survivors play with perfect efficiency. This is even BEFORE factoring in looping and pallets.
In closing:
Before you start "REEEEE BABY KILLER CRY MORE" me. Pay attention to what i said. I am talking about top level play, where it is clear that this game has a problem. You can "REEE" at me all you want, i am rank 1 killer every reset for the last 2 years with 700 hours played and i play basically every killer. I know a little bit about what i'm talking about. Do i need to get better in some cases? Of course. But the math doesn't lie. Perfectly efficient survivors are unstoppable.
You say the truth and i agree, but you forget one thing:
We are talking here about top player level without flaws and basicly wallhack and stuff? Like 2 engines (One playing killer perfectly and the other one the survivors) that are crafted for perfection and analyse purpose?
Then the killer would always play the nurse and would always win without loosing more then 2 gens.