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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185952#Comment_2185952
The issue is you're approaching it from the survivor perspective. Because I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer, I understand it better than anyone. When I play survivor and the killer camps, you do generators. If you fall for the killers bait, that's on you. When I play killer, I never camp at the beginning of the game. If I camp I do it at the end of the game or mid-game if generators go quick. I'm pretty sure that's how most red rank killers / survivors approach it. To your generator point, if the game lasts longer the killer will be given more opportunities to chase rather than camp. If the game lasts 5 minutes vs 7 minutes, unless we're talking about yellow ranks, why would the killer camp? Do you think killers WANT to camp to win? No. It's a last resort. Finally, smart survivors will know how to deal with camping. BT exists, (recently buffed) along with decisive. You can take hits too. Camping can easily be countered. Remember, it's a 1v4 for a reason.
I notice you said as a Survivor if the killer is camping just do gens, that works for 3 of 4 survivors, what do you recommend if your the survivor in the hook?
As for why the killer would camp, its because it is effective, you say the killer won't camp if the game lasts longer, but then you mentioned it's only a last resort, so tell me as gens are currently if the killer is loosing he will camp, as it's his last resort. Now If gens take say 20 percent longer and the killer is still losing woukd he not still camp, as a last resort? Seems like all that increasing gen times would do is promote camping in killers who camp immediately, and do nothing for killers like you once you start loosing.
Based on what your saying you play like, the only way to prevent camping would be to play poorly so you don't feel it necessary to camp, which doesn't seem like good advise for survivors.
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@Vetrathene said:
Nuff said, take some of the difficulty on killer and put it on survivors. Make them the ones who have to struggle and try harder. make killer still take skill (unlike survivor), but make it harder to be a survivor and actually have to try as a team to win.
Are you wanting something like gens require 2 Survivors to progress or 2 Survivors to unhook or something? Not sure what you mean by having Survivors as a team
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185976#Comment_2185976
I am a killer main who purposely avoids camping and tunneling even when its the best move.
That's good thay you were one of the killers who don't rely on it I wish more did the same.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185976#Comment_2185976
Punishing camping is easy.
Doing it in such a way that you don't take away a Killer's choice to camp when needed, or don't add a mechanic that can be exploited by Survivors, or don't give Survivors free, easy unhooks is hard.
But continue to hint that Survivors just don't want it changed because they 'rely on it'. You never listen to anyone that disagrees with you, do you?
I, myself, have pointed out why your ideas were bad, and yet here you are; acting like you are the magic idea man that everyone agrees with, and Killers just want easy wins.
Well if your asking that camping would be changed in such a way that it doesn't effect the killers choice then I guess it woukd depend on what you mean by that.
if you equate killer choice to mean the player is physically unable to camp then I would say your request is easy to do. That is fixing camping can be done without taking away their choice
If you equate taking away their choice when needed to mean anytime somethkng changes that may make them no longer want to camp because other plays may now be more preferrable then your request is still easy to do.
For example BBQ was introduced some killers may have said it is now better for me to go chase others rather than camping, now they may feel they can no longer camp becusse they have better alternatives. I'm not saying BBQ fixed camping just illustrating a point.
If however you mean that a killer may find himself in a situation where he really wants to camp but he knows that doing so may prevent him from getting all the kills he wants then your request is impossible becusse that already exists in the game. Under the current mechanics the player may find themselves in a situation where they really want to camp but can't do so if they want to get 4ks.
As for the responses I get from killer mains saying they rely on camping so don't take it out im not sure what to tell you it's a large number of responses I've seen.
Killers will say something along the lines of camping is good because if my game is going badly I need camping to get the kill.
If this bothers you talk to them about it. I'm not the one making these arguments they are.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I never had a big enough problem with any of these for me to demand any change. They all suck to fall victim to, but sometimes the gens fly and playing a little dirty is their only way of securing a kill. Hell, I do the same thing when I play killer and have a crap match.
I think the real problem lies in killers who, right from the start of the match, will try first hook facecamping or 4-man slugging, but in my experience these have been even rarer than Quentin or Tapp mains.
So between the two, face camping or slugging which did you end up going with as most needing a fix?
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@herrik666 said:
Maps. Some of them are still really annoying to deal wth
Yah I hear that, there are some that I really dislike no matter which side I'm on but I'm guessing that's not getting fixed anytime soon
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@TicTac said:
Almost everyone thinks its not fun when it happens the entire game. But in some situations its the best way to pressure survivor and some killer even find success in facecamping all day. And its clear that avoiding it completely and 12-hooking makes the game a lot harder.
So i would like your ideas to solve this issue all things considered.
For example there could be a point system for hooks. A first hook gives 2 points and every other hook 1 point. One minute on a hook is 1 point, too. If the killer reaches 10 points, all survivor die if they get hooked or remain one minute on the hook (if they are already hooked when the killer reaches 10 points)
Besides your suggestions i would like hear your opinion on other suggestions. Is it too strong for one side? Can it be abused? Is it unfun? Other things?
I mean changing the game so that killers can't effectively camp is something that's easy enough to do, I think even the people I've argued with about the issue would concede that it could easily be done but the sticking point is that way to many killers rely on it so they don't want it changed.
I even started asking if they would give up camping if it meant other things they disliked would be fixed(keys was a big issue for killers so I started their) but I think the general view held by killer mains is that nothing would be worth loosing the ability to camp.
I could be wrong though. if there are killer mains who do have something they would like to have changed in the game that they would be willing to loose camping to get, feel free to correct me.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/249632/i-cant-be-tunnelled-or-camped
Or it's your teammates getting jealous and working with the killer to get you killed by ratting out your loaction.
Look! I'm being outplayed...
https://gameclips.io/Nos37/15aa8a00-8952-423e-85dd-67bbcd1daf36
Man your teammates must have been super passed at how much you were hiding to go through the trouble of dragging the killer over to you like that, I mean they couldbhave easily been killed just approaching the killer.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Until I have failed to avoid the killer and be downed. Both of these are not an issue if your as good a Survivor as you think. Every Survivor gets multiple chances before the first hook.
It's personal mistakes or being outplayed, either way you failed.
I'm curious are you trying to say that given two equally skilled players one Killer and one survivor the survivor will never get caught.
Becuase I'd say the opposite is true, as the game is designed around killers catching survivors. That's why killers start out faster than survivors and get faster as the chase goes on?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185694#Comment_2185694
Precisely. Camping rarely (if ever) occurs at the beginning of the game. It's generally done when killers lose badly due to games ending in under 6 minutes.
Nit sure what your definition if badly is but for sake of argument let's say 4 gens done 1 hooks at the six minute mark. (You can correct this if you want whatever your definition is will work here)
Do you believe if they were still losing badly (ie 4 gens done first hook) but now the match is at say 8 min they wouldn't camp?
You think rhe killer is going to say to himself "well it's been 8 minutes so even though the match is still going badly for me I won't bother camping them, those extra 2 minutes make all the difference"
I'm going to go with that's ridiculous. If the killer would camp when the games not going well at the 6 min mark he'd do the same in the same situation at the 8min mark 10 min mark or 2 min mark.
That's why I fail to see how increasing gen tine woukd do anything other than encourage camping.
But maybe you can tell me something I said I can see how decreasing gen tine would discourage camping becuase it woukd limit thr killers effectiveness, care to weigh in on that point? (I'm not proposing gens should be made to go faster I'm just saying I think doing so would reduce camping)
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185675#Comment_2185675
No. Most killers (aside from newer players) camp when they're doing badly, (because gens fly) if you make generators harder to complete killers will be more focused on chases. Either way, survivors need to learn to do generators if their teammates are being camped. It's not hard.
Doesn't that mean that no matter how long gens take the killers will camp if the survivors are doing good? You might as well just say play bad enough so the killers don't bother camping as opposed to increasing gen times becuase that doesn't seem like it woukd do anythung
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Yah I've always kind of thought it was funny. The secret to not getting camped is just do gens. Reach real far you can reach it from the hook your stuck on
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@MrMyers4321 said:
Seems like every day there's a complaint post about camping. Camping at higher ranks wouldn't happen if gen times were increased or made more difficult to complete.
I'm not sure I follow, Killers camp becuase it's an effective way to win. If you increased the amount of time ot takes to do a gen wouldn't that make camping an even more effective strategy becusee they would have even more time to go and camp survivors without worrying the game will end.
I think you might mean reduce gen times to dissuade camping since it would mean that if they camped instead of chase others the gens will finish quickly and they will lose.
Or I suppose increase hook death time since that would also make camping less viable for the same reasons.
Or do you think Killers are going to simply stop camping if the game becomes easier for them to win with camping?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2183757#Comment_2183757
I'm not talking about Player Polls on the Forum. :) The Forum isn't really the community. The majority of the actual community never come here, post on social media about the game, etc. I'm talking about the surveys that bEhavior gives us periodically. There have been some that talk about all sorts of issues, including the ones discussed here. Over the years it has come up countless time and in countless ways. The actual statistics and responses to the surveys they give (and care about) tell them all they need to know. And as I said, the results would probably surprise you.
People who spend there time here get a Fun House Mirror version of the community and the game. It is one of the reasons I'm such a stickler sometimes. I don't like the confirmation bias, the glittering generalities, and the fact that more people who are upset post (and post a lot) as compared to the LARGER number of people who are content, and thus have no reason to post. It is a basic fact of statistics that certain kinds of feedback and polls are tainted at the source because of their nature. Happy people don't say much. Angry people make noise far in excess of their size.
Yah I never even bother with their polls, generally if I'm loading up the game to play I just click the button over and over till it loads. So what is the number 1 thing players would like fixed according to their in game polls?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2183650#Comment_2183650
No, actually they are are not. A distinct vocal minority complains about them endlessly, but every time serious polls are done, the results would surprise you. You just need to git'gud.
I'm curious about that so I made 2 polls one for Killers one for survivors to see what bugs who
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182201#Comment_2182201
Moris end the game early.
Keys end the game early.
Camping is a legit strategy.
So we nerfing a legit strategy just to nerf a broken mechanic that ends the game early? Yeah that's fair.
I'm not seeing hiw a key build strategy is any more or less legit than a camping strategy, both are in the game.
The only difference is while both are annoying one completely removes the ability of one player to do anything while he counts down to his death and start o fhe next match, the other makes the next match start right away
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@SoySensual said:
It really takes too long now to find a match and even more so at night, I don't have time to spend 24 hours playing, and when I do I'm just playing lobby simulator.
Hey devs, can't you put a fast match option, or excite the people who play killer? because I see that there are few people who play killer
If you find the que long as survivor you can change to killer and bam instamatch
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@Zagrid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2183533#Comment_2183533
I know a lot of killers would max it out, but also a good bit of players would also put it high because the lower FOV makes them motion sick.
I also know people who have the reverse issue, were too much on-screen disoriented them, so they would want a lower FOV.
The point being, it can be changed to fit people's needs, why have it tied to perks when you can just give people the option? There is no reason to not have it be an option, other than the argument that it gives a competitive advantage, but like I said. There are plenty of competitive games, even more, competitive than DbD that have FOV sliders and there aren't any complaints from their players that they lost because someone was using a high FOV.
And who says only killers can have a higher FOV? Give it to survivors too, not a whole lot again to avoid ridiculous-looking screens, but enough that it can suit each player for their needs, whether it be high or low.
So what would everyone thing of a fov slider that only limited your view never increased it beyond the base?
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I'm not opposed ad long as they fix up some of the boring moris
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182874#Comment_2182874
No, that is not my point. My original point was just that keys are not as strong as old Moris were. They're also not a "free escape" like people often claim and not as overpowered as people make them out to be.
People certainly do use them; something doesn't need to be best in slot to get use. I would be fine with reworking them, so long as they're still useful in some way or another when all is said and done.
Ah good just making sure, to be honest your the first I can think of that said keys aren't very good
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182743#Comment_2182743
I just think the average case is way more useful when talking about how strong something is. Like, it can't just be ceiling; it has to be ceiling and the likelihood of actually reaching that ceiling. Keys have the potential to save one or multiple survivors from likely death, but in most matches they do just about nothing. I don't think they're useful frequently enough to justify running over a medkit if you're really trying to win. I totally think it's worth it to make room for one key in a four-man squad, but that's about it.
So your point I'd don't bother nerfing keys becusse nobody bothers with them anyway? I take it then you aren't opposed to neffong them then, since you and most people don't use them in your view?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182601#Comment_2182601
That is hugely oversimplifying things. The benefit isn't just saving two chases and two hooks. It's removing a survivor from the game extremely early. That makes a massive impact on how quickly survivors are able to complete gens. Even a green mori prior to their nerf was more reliably strong than a pink key.
Keys cannot reduce the need to complete all five gens. In order for a key to save ONE survivor at five gens, three survivors need to be dead and the remaining survivor needs to still have their key and the killer needs to close the hatch (because otherwise the key was useless) and the survivor needs to locate and reach the closed hatch without being downed and before the EGC timer runs out and it needs to be a game in which the survivor would not have made it out the exit gates without a key (because otherwise the key was useless). And, even then, it's possible the survivor team might not have been wrecked so thoroughly if you had brought a more reliable item, like a medkit, instead of the key.
Most of the time keys do literally nothing. If you die with the "save key" add-on, if you die as the last survivor, if you die early and your teammates never locate your key (or even think to try), if you escape through the open hatch, if you escape through the exit gates or if you escape through the hatch when you just as easily could have made it through the exit gates, if you lose the key due to Franklin's, etc. the key did absolutely nothing for you. It actually might have hurt you because you were running it in place of a more reliable item, like a medkit.
The devs can't and shouldn't do anything about SWF and comms. It would kill the game, for one, and I feel players exaggerate the impact it has on match outcomes. When I get lose as killer it's almost always because I made bad decision(s) and/or got outplayed.
Yes it was a simplification to not point out the total effect becuase any argument about killing earlier has added effects and can snowball against the survivors is mirrored by finishing gens early thus preventing chases deaths and snowballing. So whats the point it cuts both ways.
Not sure why you spent so much time explaining that keys don't normally save a full 5 gens, I mentioned the best case scenarios, that's why I said at most and can. If I was talking about the average case I would have typed something along the lines of "on average...." or "you can expect...."
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182201#Comment_2182201
Keys were "nerfed" from opening the hatch from 30 seconds, to 10 seconds.
In practice, this does absolutely nothing, because you either coordinate with the other survivors to all jump in the hatch together anyway, or you're using it in a chase and the killer closes it instantly anyway.
So no, the last nerf didn't affect survivors. At all. Keys are just as bad as they've always been. Enabling survivors to bypass any and all remaining objectives, which could be as many as 2 whole generators and the exit gates for 2 survivors, or the final generator and the exit gate for 3 survivors, or even enable all survivors to bypass opening the exit gates.
Mori's on the other hand were nerfed from bypassing a hook state, to... not bypassing a hook state. Now they're just a fancy animation that gets you less BP than a hook.
Like I said I don't keep a Talley of needs so you could be right, I was didn't even think of then20nsecond change to be honest, but if that was the last nerf made my bad. It still feels like there were other nerfs since then to me for some reason though
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2182465#Comment_2182465
I don’t mean moris as they are now. I mean moris before. Keys as they are now are still close to the same level of unfairness as getting instantly mori’d after only getting hooked once. And the difference with perks like prove thyself is the killer can stop it. Meanwhile when it comes to hatch if the survivor has a key and knows where the hatch is the killer can’t really do much to stop it.
And just to elaborate there’s a difference between ending the game early and just having perks to speed up your progress. Comparing prove thyself to keys is the same as comparing first hook mori’s to Save the best for last.
With regards to one hook mori, it saved at most 2/3 hooks per survivor, a key can reduce the need to complete all 5 gens. Hence why I said it was much more powerful. You could do essentially nothing with keys wait for your team to die then even if the killer closes the hatch just pop it right back open.
Either way as for time saved with keys it's 80 seconds per gen per 5 gens. Of 400 seconds in the best possible case. Prove thyself I believe is 45 percent reduction of each gen so 36 sec9nds per gen saved times 5 gens so 180 seconds saved. Now clearly 400 its more than 180 but both still enf the game early its just a matter of how much so.
As a side note In the worst case the key may only save the time of running to an already open exit gate just a few seconds away from the hatch in that case
As for preventing other perks you can do that to keys as well. You have Franklin's demise, not killing the survivor to trigger hatch spawn until you know where the remains survivor with the key is, offering so you know where hatch is etc.
As a fun little aside I suppose you don't ever want the devs to do anything to swf communications becuase there is no killer equivalent right? You'd be stuck with a 0/1 forever that wouldn't be right
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2181004#Comment_2181004
Camping and keys aren’t on the same tier. Moris and keys were on the same tier as they both ended the game early. Moris got nerfed into basically just being for show and now keys are op in their current state.
Really? I woukd have said keys are much much more powerful than moris but I supposed ultimately they do both involve saving time on objectives, moris the trip to the hook, keys the time to do gen(s).
but if it's just a matter of time does that mean if a perk like prove thyself (which also reduces time for gens) or other similar perks were nerfed then your no longer going to ask for keysbto be nerfed, becuase then we'd be back to a 2/1 situation, or do you have another excuse?
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2179680#Comment_2179680
the equivilent nerf to keys were moris.
that's a fair 1/1 balance nerf.
nerfing moris + camping just to nerf keys is ######### stupid. How is that fair? Oh wait this is a survivor sided game of course it's fair.
Funny I thought the last nerf effected survivors, but in all fairness I don't keep a running Talley so I could be wrong.
Does that mean that if the next nerf effects survivors you will jo longer be in favor of fixing keys since then it would not be 1/1 but 2/1? Or is the needing to keep things equal in your book only when it comes to things you want?
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
Naw it's bad enough that we have to deal with other pc users chatting most which is "gg" or trolls. I don't want to see what console users are going to say.
You do realize you don't have to chat with others right?
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@Vetrathene said:
When are keys getting nerfed? I'm tired of SWFs just finding them in the game and using them to get hatch free. Killers don't have a comback mechanic like this. Even when Mori's actually did something, you had to bring one in, you coudln't just find it. And I think we all know the nerf to keys will not make them as worthless as Mori's, because of favoritism. They could make as simple and lazy change as they did to Mori's, just make keys unable to open hatch. Simple and done. (I'm not exactly serious with this nerf but I am very frustrated by keys and how Mori's where just nerfed into oblivion with no buildup or warning.) But don't worry, we have new coldwind maps and ######### survivor animations instead! :D :D :D :D
I asked if survivors would ask for keys to be chabged if killers would ask for camping to be changed to be unviable. The discussion barley even touched on hiw to change keys becuase killer mains were so opposed to the idea if loosing camping. Would you give up camping if it meant keys would be nerfed hard?(I liked the idea of it taking uninterrupted time to open kind-of like a totem but any suggestion's welcome)
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Honestly I usually am not there for it becuase I click ready and then go do something else till the match starts but I have dodged out when I see all 4 survivors with he same skin and cosmetic choices. I find it annoying to play then so I opt out
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@Sonzaishinai said:
4k and especially everyone escaping is akin to flawless victories in fighting games. It should be relativelly rare.
It is kinda a problem that people see this as the victory condition. It just creates a very skewed idea of balance.
I wouldn't be surprised if over half the people that think this game is frustrating have this mindset. They are really doing it to themself.
Lower the expectation of what a victory is and this game becomes a lot more enjoyable. If you only see the most extreme as a victory then you can't say anything about balance cause you're not playing the same game at that point
I thought a flawless victory was 4k 0 gens merciless killer? That just me?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180312#Comment_2180312
I'm not sure why you care about what I find ethically questionable. Something that is questionable in the ethics department is largely personal, i.e. could I look myself in the mirror if I were doing it. Would I still respect myself or value any win I earned using the practice? Do you see my point? It is within the rules, so it is legal. I just don't do it, nor am I going to commend it. The only reason it was even discussed in the thread (by me) was because the OP went out of his way to talk about why it didn't matter that they did it anyway because it didn't affect the game (and was just for laughs). That required a response, because that statement was incorrect. When the switcherroo works as intended, it causes the Killer to play one Perk down. That is a tangible effect on the game, and thus the OP's statement needed correction. Other people, like MadLordJack commented more on that than me. I don't like it but I accept it. The same is true of so-called face-camping; I don't like it but I accept it is part of the game.
But if you want to know why I think it is ethically questionable, it is because it is outside the match. It is largely possible only with Comms. While you can chat at each other in text, that isn't how it is normally done and would take a lot more work. Solos don't generally want to do that kind of thing, and suddenly coordinating with strangers in that manner doesn't happen that often. In short, it seems like a thing which is logistically easier for SWF (as so many things are) and thus one has to wonder why they need one more competitive edge, i.e. trying get the Killer to play a Perk down. Perfectly legal but... most people just don't (or can't easily) do it. Even the OP insists it wasn't done for that reason. He said he did it for laughs to see if he could get the Killer to lose his [bad word] in the end game chatter because it is funny. I would point out that even the OP seemed to feel getting advantage would be wrong and got very defensive and went to great lengths to say it wasn't about that. This would seem to indicate that even the OP wasn't entirely comfortable with that part I find ethically questionable.
In the end, the only thing I truly take issue with was the Shadenfreude. Since that seems to be repudiated now, I am no longer vested.
I Got yah, it's primarily that its done in the lobby by swf's that your uncomfortable with. Fair enough, and ayh your definityl going to have difficulty doing that with solos/not really be able to accomplish it.
that being said it seems nearly identical to SWF's coordinating perks and roles prior to the match which I wull admit to having done. You think that questionable too then I take it?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2180265#Comment_2180265
You can go back through this thread and see what I think of it. I said they are perfectly able to do so, but that it is ethically questionable. It is within the rules for someone to change at the last minute. It is within the rules for a SWF to communicate. So to pull the stunt is well within the rules. Something can be within the rules and still be of questionable ethics. I would have been less bothered, and wouldn't have posted in this thread at all, had the OP simply stated that they were doing it only for a competitive edge. I wouldn't have approved of the method, but my approval is beside the point. It would still be within the rules. I chimed in because of the stated intent, the wanting to anger/grief another Player for laughs. That is being a bad sport. The Germans have a word for it, "Shadenfreude."
Again not a problem that you think he shouldn't be doing this to get a rise out of killers, so long as your ok with it if it's for the win. (Personally the intent doesn't matter as much to me but it's fine either way.)
I don't think i mentioned it being against the rules and I'm not saying you did either.
it's the ethically questionable part that I'm talking about
I'm having trouble seeing the difference between this and any other bait/trap for the killer to fall into, or do you consider those ethically questionable as well?
Or is it just becusse it requires teamwork to pull off, putting it more akin to a strategy based around certain survivors bringing certain perks for maximum advantage ie one survivor brings prove thyself another bt etc etc.? Is that what you find questionable?
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Megaman x, get some sigma in here lol
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2179664#Comment_2179664
If the Killer carried you over by the hatch and dropped you at it, you would assume he was letting you out. If he let you crawl right to it and suddenly slammed it in your face and hooked you, you would know his/her intent was imply to screw with you. It would be a sick, perverse thing that had nothing to do with the game itself. It would be for the Killer to get his/her kicks at your upset.
In this case, we know what the OP's intent was in fact. I don't know, since you came to this thread so late in the game, if you saw the original title of this thread or got to read the original post. It suffices to say that the OP admitted that the point of the switcheroo was not to take advantage of the benefit it provided in the game (although that benefit is significant) but just anger to the Killer's player to the point that the would get salty in the end game chat. The whole point of the action was just to aggravate the player, not unlike our hatch slamming example above. I don't have to guess at the intent because it was clearly stated.
However, since the OP has now changed the name of the thread and altered that original post, I'm just going to let it go and assume that means it is now understood on some level that it wasn't the best idea or thing to champion. Personally, I hope this thread just kind of dies away at this point. The subject is exhausted.
Yah I wasn't taking issue with the intent behind his action, that's why I said hiw would you even be able to tell as a Survivor being camped why the killer did it, which I noticed you ignored and switched to something else, or in this case as the killer getting tricked into a bad perk.
I was popping up to ask if you think a group doing what he did not primarily to piss off the killer but to gain an advantage was ok, because you seemed to be against that as well even though it would fit right into that player agency portion if the game
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@SOMENINJANAME said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2169296#Comment_2169296
Alright, now that was a very fun way to put it lol. I understand the point that you are trying to make. However, this is still not an option 1 or 2 conversation. If I was to choose an option, it would be whichever one says that camping is a great way to win. Despite however many Survivor mains on here pretending to be Killer mains say that it isnt good, it is. Its not a nice playstyle but it can be effective more often than not. Only because most survivors come to save each other. If they only try and fix gens and abandon the unfortunate first fella, than you'll probably get 1 kill.
Yah the reason it was made this way was a number of people has bassically claimed that camping didn't need to be addressed because it was such a terrible strat that could not be used effectively so why bother fixing it. I was expecting to see almost no one choose option 2 becuase of how good camping was but there are a surprising number who say it's useless.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178806#Comment_2178806
We already lost moris why should we lose camping too? That's stupid. Let's just let SWF have a 100% win rate while we are at it.
Mori nerf should have came the same day as key nerf and it's ######### stupid moris got nerfed first.
Haha there it is. No don't fix x they already fixed so its not fair. As though the devs havento keep a list. OK we fixed ds now we can finally fix a killer issue or hey we fixed mories now a survivor ones up
I'm curious if anyone kept a talley of who gets more nerfs survivors.
The real funny part though is if you do want one for one that's really what I proposed in the first place one Killer and one survivor. As another fun question If the next nerf is to survivors will you be opposed at that point to fixing keys beciase you know that wouldnt be fair to survivors to get two on row?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178814#Comment_2178814
I am all about Player agency inside the match. This is something outside of it, and dependent upon using Comms (something not all Survivors even have). You will also note, I never said he couldn't do it. What I stated is it is a strange way to get one's jollies, a perverse hobby. His goal is to upset/aggravate the Player so they will be salty and upset in the after game chat. The fact that it also helps sabotage the Killer into playing one Perk down is just icing on the cake I suppose. The key thing is I'm not putting words in his mouth or making assumptions about his motives. I am taking his behavior exactly as he portrays it.
In fact, it isn't that different from something you dislike. Imagine if someone camped you the entire match (I know you don't like that) just to see if they could make you DC or suicide on the hook, so they can take enjoyment from you being salty about it after the fact? In this case, it is the intent that matters. Imagine if you were in a debate with someone who started a thread titled:
How To Camp a Survivor to Make Them Lose Their [BAD WORD]
The poster proceeds to describe how they grab Survivors, camp them and slash them repeatedly on the hook just so they get angry and salty after the game. The poster says they do this because it is "funny," and claims it has no in-game purpose. I would likewise be calling them on being bad sports. I wouldn't be saying they can't do it, but I would (defending you even) be calling them on it exactly like I called the OP here. It is a Metagaming move and instigated for pretty creepy reasons.
You are correct that I dislike camping. You are incorrect that the killers motive matters to me. If he's camping me to win I'm going to dislike it. If he's doing it to make me dislike it I'm going to dislike it, even if the killer intended to make me laugh about it I'm still going to dislike it.
Not sure how I would even know the killers intent while I'm being camped anywY, but would you be cool with it if the intent of other survivors who do this was an edge in the match?
of as for the fake out requires comms and not everyone has that is what you dislike then don't worry you don't need to speak to do this. All you need is to type to your friends in our next match switch out at the last second and everyone who plays dbd can do that so no worries 👍
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178822#Comment_2178822
I know lol. I was speaking on what I've encountered since I posted this. I probably could have worded it better. I apologize for that. When I type, I usually speak in a general way because I'm a bit ADD and have trouble concentrating. It's why I usually edit stuff a lot because I might have double typed words and such. What I meant was in general, as a response to everything that was mentioned previously to me. That was nothing towards you at all. I just don't get why so many people take this game that seriously to the point that most of the forum is people complaining about stuff that isn't really affecting them personally. I try to play in a way for most to have fun but you can't stop from rustling someones' feathers no matter what you do or say. I don't want to edit the title because it was true on what I was saying, only if it was a small amount of 3 people who really got mad out of like 12 matches but I thought it was really funny and wanted to post while still playing.
It's what happens when you don't fully focus on something. I was replying in real time in-between matches. It was probably the most fun I've had in DBD in awhile. The amount of mori's last night was astounding lol. I'm probably going to try what the others' said with broken keys but not even take them off to see the reactions. It was all in good fun and pretty much all the killers thought it was good. Just 3 angry ones but that wouldn't even been the case if they had 4k'd us, you know? Fun is subjective. I've said it before. Again, not talking about you. It's just the way I reply and type, I guess. I've done it all my life and don't know how to change it so never think I'm talking at you but more with you, if that makes sense? I'm a bit scatter-brained.
No worries I get what you were going for now. Probably doesn't help I'm half asleep now.
I just has to chime in becuase he was ranting pretty hard about the importance of player agency as a reason to not address camping so it seemed disingenuous to now say baiting the killer was somehow abhorrent,
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@Waterfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2176412#Comment_2176412
Honestly what does take skills in this game? Do you think running around in a circle as survivor takes skill? Even when I first started this game as survivor a couple gameplay videos was all it took for me to loop killers well. This game is not meant to be competitive it’s meant to be fun that why it does not have an Esport. You are not meant to survive every game or 4K every game. Players in this community need to learn to have fun and stop worrying about winning every game.
S9oooo your in favor of nerfing spirit since killers shouldn't expect 4ks and its more casual for the killer to be worse at chases?
I don't think they should nerf her but your arguments seem to indicate you do
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Now but I wouldn't mind knowing the level of the players so if I get stuck with a bunch of browns I can bring more mess around builds and still play to win
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178814#Comment_2178814
Yeah. Trying to throw shade at my character without directly saying it. It's why I moved on after my final sentence. People say they tunnel then still lose and get mad then rant on the forum is fine. You say something that was pretty funny to watch and not many people were upset during and it's all-out aggression. It's why I don't bother with talking to certain people on the forums. It's obvious that they take the game too seriously and anything that affects them is just harmful. It was harmless fun and most enjoyed themselves but there are a few on here that I've noticed complain about certain things heavily and will strike at ANYTHING that relates to them having a chance at killing or surviving.
It was about a fun time with friends and it got turned into a them vs us thread. I don't know why I bother talking to certain ones on here. You can't feel guilty for something that wasn't hurting anyone. Maybe annoying them but ay, getting a 1k even with NOED will "annoy" certain people or not getting a 4-man escape bothers' others. From now on, I'm definitely posting more about stuff that I do with friends or as killer. Pretty interesting to watch people go nuts over something that isn't that big of a deal. Just like how killers used to throw up ebonies if they thought a group was SWFs lol.
I think you quoted the wrong guy I wasn't throwing shade your way
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178801#Comment_2178801
Don't worry. Killer won't spend more than 2 minutes around the hook.
Hahaha fair enough.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178577#Comment_2178577
I'm not judging you by anything you have done (or not done) other than this single thread. Your inability to own up to the fact it is ethically challenged (to say the least) is your issue, not mine. I didn't ask you to defend your life history gaming, nor do I comment on it. I am merely holding your toes to the fire over your specific title of this thread, and what you originally posted. The fact you kept digging the hole deeper by being incapable of understanding why not everyone finds this as entertaining as you do, is also your problem.
But let's play Devil's Advocate here; what if I'm just one of those weird people who likes gutting people on forums for fun? Could it be I hunt the threads looking for someone who has stepped in it so I can proceed to slowly, painfully, and psychotically drag them over the coals? What if I think that is funny? What if I get my jollies that way? What if it makes me feel powerful and because this is "just a forum" isn't to be taken seriously? What if getting you to act defensive and go into that defense of your history was a win condition for me? Would you find that funny? Wouldn't you find that a perverse thing for me to take enjoyment in? I'm just asking here since you now, none of this is serious.
I don't know you. I am entirely focused on this thread and what you said. It isn't supportable behavior. You have to know that on some level, because you wouldn't have gotten defensive. For the record, I don't take any perverse pleasure in having to get into these debates, however many I seem to stick myself into. I feel more obligated than anything else, and annoyed by it. If you didn't intend the meaning you clearly stated when you created the title of this thread and by the context of your first post, you missed the mark you were going for. We don't see you as a mad prankster, a likeable rascal, or someone just having fun. We see you as someone metagaming by use of the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms) to further hobble the Killer in a match that you were already going into with a competitive edge. We see that, because that is all there is to it when you strip away your attempts to cast yourself in a better light. I'm actually trying to get through to you, because I don't think you are a terrible person at heart. I just think you are wearing blinders and being a bad sport.
I'm kinda surprised I thought you were all about player agency? This would be another form of strategy kina like baiting the opposing player into making a mistake no?
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@Wiitab360 said:
I'm not sure if they buffed chests or anything recently, but the amount of keys / hatch escapes I've had in the last month or so have been outlandish. For context, I took a break from the game shortly after Blight came out and only recently started playing regularly again, which meant that I started at Rank 20. Naturally, I started to make my way back up the ranks (I had been ~Rank 4 before the hiatus) and I noticed that once I got to green ranks, the matchmaking was not being very fair at all. I was getting full red rank sfw at rank 10, but that's a different issue. Many of these games have involved one or more of the survivors bringing keys, or finding them in chests.
Example A:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/D9Z19UGPY9H6/key1.png
I was trying out the trickster as I had just gotten him with shards and levelled him up a bit. Decided to bring some meta perks because I heard he was, for the most part, a subpar killer. Ultimately, I got a few hooks but no sacrifices, and the survivors finished all the gens. Naturally, I started patrolling the gates, but never saw any scratch marks. So, I start widening my search to see if they're hiding somewhere nearby, healing, etc. when suddenly the hatch icon appears in the corner and all four of them escape at once. How exactly am I supposed to combat this? I can't exactly just leave the gates to search for the hatch, because then they're just going to open the gates and get out anyways, and I shouldn't have to go out of my way to find it when it's not even open in the first place, but fine. Whatever. I should've realized they brought a key when loading in right? Then I would've been able to adjust accordingly? That brings me to...
Example B:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4P0VZ29I2NGG/key2.png
I had some Nurse challenges from the archives left over so I decided to work on those, not even three games later. Now, my Nurse is only level 35, so I had to work with what I had, but I made extra sure to notice if any of them brought a key. As you can see, none of them did, and one of them even brought a Hawkins offering. They got the first couple gens done relatively quickly, but I managed to sacrifice one of them, and they also three genned themselves. Luckily, they seemed to be attempting to commit to the three gen instead of hiding, so I stuck to chasing them off the generators (two of which were close to being done) and I failed to notice that one of them wasn't showing up. So there I am, chasing one of the ones trying to work on a gen, when they run up to their two other friends standing around the hatch, and they all leave. They had gotten a key from a chest. Again, what should I have done here instead? Let them finish the generators? Hunted down the third guy? Should I have brought Franklin's Demise regardless of if they brought a key into the match or not?
Now, you might say that finding keys is a rare occurrence, but apparently, this is not even close to the truth. Of the last 30 games I've played (I've slowly climbed to rank 4) I would estimate that that at least one survivor brings in a key a third of the time, and they find a key in a chest another third of the time. Maybe half of these key-based matches involve at least two survivors escaping through the hatch.
In conclusion, keys are severely overpowered items that oftentimes cannot be played around or require an overhaul of your usual strategy to even stand a chance. They're way too commonly found in chests, even without a looting build, and their power only multiplies within a SFW, which is how most people play at purple and red ranks. Keys need a severe nerf, rework, or they should just outright be removed from the game. The hatch is also an outdated mechanic that needs to be reworked. And on a (semi) unrelated note, matchmaking is still broken and SFW makes that problem even worse.
TL;DR: Keys are broken gamechangers and are way too easily found within chests with little to no counters, especially when used within a SFW.
I asked if survivors would ask for keys to be chabged if killers would ask for camping to be changed to be unviable. The discussion barley even touched on hiw to change keys becuase killer mains were so opposed to the idea if loosing camping. Would you give up camping if it meant keys would be nerfed hard?(I liked the idea of it taking uninterrupted time to open kind-of like a totem but any suggestion's welcome)
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@Crowman said:
Survivors shouldn't have infinite time to rescue someone from hook. The fact there is a timer on the hook helps force survivors off gens so they go rescue. Without it why would a survivor ever go to a hook before finishing the gen especially if the killer is running ruin.
Agreed, and the killer shouldn't have infinite time around the hooked survivor for similar reasons
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@DonZwiebel said:
Removing the endgame chat would be one big step in the right direction. :)
Don't they have a button thay does that already?
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@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178479#Comment_2178479
Well again, my gripe with small game was the perk-versus-perk dynamic that it promoted.
How about a map?
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@Mr_Critical said:
If all survivors are not doing gens and just hiding for an extended period then that is 100% Holding the game hostage since its extremely easy to do at least one gen (ON HADDONFIELD) it clearly shows a want to not do the objective and just hold the game in place.
Do they have to do gens or can the donother things like Totems or just plain old luring the killer away?
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@Mineguy said:
I created a build where 1 m1 hit is enough to make a few people give up.
Sloppy butcher
Franklin's demise
Hex: The Third Seal
Hex: Undying
When someone knows another m1 effect perk please tell me.
Meyer has some that may help you of your comfortable going after certain survivors before others
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@Power_Guy said:
Rofl. I have a friend who plays Candy Bubba:
The chest in the basement has his candy in it. Survivors can't touch the candy chest. Yes, he has Insidious.
They can do ANYTHING ELSE; if they never enter the basement, they are untouched. If they enter & leave, they are untouched.
But if they touch that chest...Chainsaw Noises Intensify
OK that's pretty funny