wxnickxw
wxnickxw
About
- Username
- wxnickxw
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172460#Comment_2172460
No, I do give answers, and they are quite clear. I just don't talk down to you. The fact that you are having difficulty with context, isn't me being evasive. I don't like having to talk to people like they are still in Middle School. I think that is an insulting way to have a discussion. Again, you are playing GAMES here. You are ignoring the entire context of our conversation and you are ignoring the post I just made with three clear statements. On top of that you are trying to ask a loaded question, i.e. was I "full of it" when I said this or when I said that? :) Neither. I haven't been full of it in any statement I've made to you. I'm direct, and I'm honest. I believe in ethics which is why your little games are annoying. I wasn't attempting to deceive you (which full of it implies) and I clarified the position so there could be no doubt. Are we doing this or not? Do you plan on stalling again?
OK I'll admit the full if it was a bit much ill try and be more fair. As for the context around the rest of the discussion that came layer that is why I'm asking you to clarify becuase you do go on to do an180 and claim moris aren't that important.
So I'll try and ask my question in a way that doesn't force you to admit you were full of it (at the time I was under the impression you didn't really believe what you were saying you were just making whatever argument you could becuase you just wanted to justify camping as a great thing)
So I'll try and rephrase my question.
you said that moris were important and that killers are nothing more than chase engines without them. You also said later that moris were not that important.
Do you no longer believe what you first posted or do you no longer belive your later post where you said that moris are not important
It's getting late and you've taken this long and still not answered so I'm guessing that we will have to play on the weekend , assuming you do eventually answer my question that is
-
@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172455#Comment_2172455
That's why you always have to grab people facing walls or sign blockers, if can't be done, use a few sec to search for nearby survivors. But the real annoying thing about flashlights is that sometimes you can be blinded in a 90º angle where you don't see but stil can get blinded.. that is something really unfair that needs a patch.
There's also that bright perk doesn't that make you immune to flashlights?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172446#Comment_2172446
And you reread that post and still don't understand it? That is a LIST of all the different things Killers can do. I also have another post as part of our conversation I notice that you didn't quote, where I specifically list the BIG THREE things which cannot be removed, i.e. Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging. That one is one of the FOUR times I answer your question as to which things I believe cannot be removed to maintain Player Agency. Shall I post it? As well as the other three? It bothers me that you can't draw context. If I state these THREE things are the ones that cannot be removed, it by default states that the others can.
Be that as it may, I'll dumb down our conversation and make it clearer for you.
- Yes I believe removing the Mori from the game (which they did not do btw) would reduce Player Agency.
- No, I don't believe it is AS IMPORTANT as trying to remove tactics. The Mori is an Offering or Add-on in most cases.
- I'm not sure why you latched on to the Mori as your weird defense in our discussion about CAMPING.
I would also point out that Pyramid Head can Mori without an Offering. Myers can Mori with Add-on(s). Any Killer can Mori with certain Perks. Those are builds and were covered in a DIFFERENT part of our discussion. I believe that removing Player Agency is bad for the game. I SPECIFICALLY (in context of our entire conversation) note that it is Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging that are the key Player Agency choices of a Killer. Does that answer your question? Please TELL ME you can follow this.
No I understand it's a list but you very clearly state that without the 5 things listed killers woukd be effective reduced to bots.
Since you said
Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines
It's very clear your point was that each of those are very important becuas without any of them killers are "nothing more than chase engines"
Later on you did say moris weren't important but the problem was you have this tendency to not give direct answers or seemingly change your opinion on things every so often. So I wanted and still want a strait answer.
Where I quoted was your point about how very important moris were (withoit them your nothing but a bot right)
so we're you full of it when you made that point? Or were you full of it later when you said moris weren't that important?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163495#Comment_2163495
There is a difference between buffing, debuffing, and reworking Add-on(s) and Perks. You still have Player Agency, i.e. a CHOICE, to choose said things or leave them off. Artificial mechanics which strictly regulate how Players can function in the game remove Player Agency entirely. These are apples an oranges. If you remove agency, you lose Players; it is as simple as that. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing a glorified BOT. Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines who have to run around like the four Ghosts in Pac Man. Choice, or at least an illusion of it, has to exist to keep the interest of any Player in any game. What you fail to understand is that the DEV tested all sorts of things over the years and came to the same conclusion over and over again. Not only will Survivors immediately abuse any artificial constraint placed on Killers, but Players simply opt out of playing Killer when they realize they have little in the way of choices to make. When it comes to "chase" games there are far better ones than DbD. What makes this game unique is PLAYER AGENCY and the unpredictable (and sometimes unfair) nature of it.
So let me lay it out for you again:
- There are no Bots.
- Since both roles are required for the game to work DbD must avoid loss of either role.
- Since you need at least one Killer to four Survivors, there is a smaller margin of error on losing Killers.
So unless you find an ENTIRELY NEW WAY to rebuild DbD from the ground up to provide Killers new, alternate choices besides running around like mindless Bots in chases with zero tactics to apply, these biased (dare I say tunnel-vision) constraints are DOA. Players who take on the role of Killers expect AND DESERVE exactly the same agency as those playing Survivor.
Oops there we go sorry about the delay
Edit sorry about the triple post. Hope this jogs your memory
So ready to answer my question now?
We're you full of right where I quoted you about how important moris were or were you full of it later in the thread when you said they weren't important at all?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163495#Comment_2163495
There is a difference between buffing, debuffing, and reworking Add-on(s) and Perks. You still have Player Agency, i.e. a CHOICE, to choose said things or leave them off. Artificial mechanics which strictly regulate how Players can function in the game remove Player Agency entirely. These are apples an oranges. If you remove agency, you lose Players; it is as simple as that. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing a glorified BOT. Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines who have to run around like the four Ghosts in Pac Man. Choice, or at least an illusion of it, has to exist to keep the interest of any Player in any game. What you fail to understand is that the DEV tested all sorts of things over the years and came to the same conclusion over and over again. Not only will Survivors immediately abuse any artificial constraint placed on Killers, but Players simply opt out of playing Killer when they realize they have little in the way of choices to make. When it comes to "chase" games there are far better ones than DbD. What makes this game unique is PLAYER AGENCY and the unpredictable (and sometimes unfair) nature of it.
So let me lay it out for you again:
- There are no Bots.
- Since both roles are required for the game to work DbD must avoid loss of either role.
- Since you need at least one Killer to four Survivors, there is a smaller margin of error on losing Killers.
So unless you find an ENTIRELY NEW WAY to rebuild DbD from the ground up to provide Killers new, alternate choices besides running around like mindless Bots in chases with zero tactics to apply, these biased (dare I say tunnel-vision) constraints are DOA. Players who take on the role of Killers expect AND DESERVE exactly the same agency as those playing Survivor.
11
-
@glitchboi said:
To be fair, the boring moris are from the older killers. Wraith could probably rip the spine out of a survivor, that'd be cool.
Now we're talking
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172425#Comment_2172425
Even now you are stalling. You are pretending not to understand the context of our discussion to find an excuse, any however flimsy to pretend that you didn't get your question answered. The entire context of our discussion is about Player Agency and it covers the difference between tactics and gear/add-on(s)/offerings. It is specific that tactics are all Player Agency and that it is those that cannot be removed. As such, I didn't care a bit about the Mori being changed because it was NEVER a tactic. It was an offering.
Sorry I'm having trouble brining the quote over to another thread on my phone for some reason its on page 5 of the discussion
Here I copy pasted the relevant part from your comment
"it is as simple as that. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing a glorified BOT. Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines who have to run around like the four Ghosts in Pac Man."
Sorry I'm not sure why I can't quote it. If your able to do so please bring the full quote over. But that's the part where you stated without the option to choose Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines.
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172417#Comment_2172417
That wasn't the only question you asked, nor does that actually make any sense grammatically. I stated what options Killers have, i.e. their primary choices. And I went on to talk about Player Agency and the value of it. I never stated that the Mori was "super" important to anything. It was simply listed among all the options, Camping, Tunneling, Slugging, Herding, and even the Mori. Desperate to try and change the subject, you suddenly started fixating on the Mori. Please give me a link to the quote where I stated the Mori, specifically, is supper important. You are just playing games again to try and avoid the fact that you look like a fool in our entire exchange. You are putting words in my mouth and then telling me I have to tell you which one I was serious about. Again, why don't we get an impartial person (like Yords) to read our exchanges and see if HE can follow them where you clearly were not able? The Mori, by the way, was an Offering which I SPECIFICALLY talked about as being different from tactics. I stated clearly many times that tactics and offerings are apples and oranges.
OK I'll go find the part where you said that if you removed either camping tunneling slugging herding or moris then killers were glorified Bots. I think you called them chase engines at one point. And yah I think more than one question was asked but that was the one I said I wanted answered before I would play you.
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172406#Comment_2172406
Your question got answered four times. I counted and then had someone else count too to make sure I hadn't gone insane. Why don't we point Yords here to our exchange and let him be the impartial judge of whether your questions were answered. If so, we play now and I continue your education.
Haha no you didn't here was my question
Give me a strait answer, we're you full of it when you said moris were supper important to Player agency or were you full of it when you said that moris don't matter at all.
It was a simple question you danced around but never answered directly. Here's your chance again
Should be easy enough I'm sure you won't need more than 20 characters
-
@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172403#Comment_2172403
Well the most obvious one would be survivors looping around a hooked survivor. They would extend the timer and loop the killer while others work on gens. Even then, this is just a bad idea because it still doesn't fix the problem of killers camping. It is a very unhealthy addition and the devs have mentioned that they have tried things like these and they didn't work out that well.
Yah i heard thay one so that's why I added the part about it not stopping while in a chase. I think it would address it becuase if they loop near the hook the timer keeps going.? Unless they could keep looping while not being chased I think it would prevent it? You thoughts?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172393#Comment_2172393
Actually, you didn't show up. I waited around for you the next night (as did my friends) and you didn't return. You didn't post. You hid like a coward after saying you were going to play and show us what you are working with. I assumed you had cried off and I was decided to be nice and let it drop. But since you are ready now, shall we play a game?
I told you when I say I would do something I would. I told you I would play after you answered my question. You never answered me though so whenever your ready answer away
I'm still hoping to play woth you becuse any method you can show me to reduce camping is a win win for me
-
@Yords said:
Camping doesn't happen enough and losing pips doesn't matter since rank means pretty much nothing.
And just how do you fix camping exactly?
Well I've made a proposal about stopping hook timer when thr killer is around the hook unless he's chasing someone. I think this would stop camping becusse then it wouldn't be a viable strategy for Killers.
There may be abuses the survivors could use if you can think of one let me know. So.e killers have said there were abuses in the past besides it stopping camping but they don't usually say what it is
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172342#Comment_2172342
Thirsty for more are you? :) Your suggestions aren't revolutionary or new. All sorts of variations of playing with the timer were tested, and failed those tests (mostly due to Survivor abuse). There is the Perk: Camaraderie which came out of all of that indirectly when the Stranger Things DLC dropped. It gives SURVIVORS the option to give more time on the hook with a little effort. There is no such thing as a free lunch, you should stop asking for one.
Let me remind you, since you seem to have ALREADY forgotten what many people have already told you. The DEV have already weighed in on this subject many times. They have stated that Camping, Tunneling, and Slugging are valid, legal tactics and they have no plans to further constrain Player agency in this context. But let's talk about you and your "one note" posts for a bit shall we? Why to you continuously forget or purposely ignore what others have already pointed out to you? Is it like that movie Memento, do you leave one thread and suddenly have no memory of what you were schooled on (and how) from the previous?
Hey I remember you, you were going to answer my question and then play me. Then you refused to do so.
You seem to be missing the point I was making, I was proposing a way to remove camping if they wanted. I took issue with the mention of abuse because it seems when killers mention the abuse the abuse they are referring to is just that it stops killers from camping and nothing else.
Again I'm not saying you can't camp as the game is now, we all know the devs haven't pulled it out. And I'm not saying you can't put forth arguments why camping should stay in, all I'm saying is that if you are going to claim the solution I propose is open for abuse then provide examples of abuse that isn't just that it stops killers from camping in some situation because the stated goal of the proposal is to remove camping as a viable option completely.
I am looking for actual abuses becuse if someone presents them I would try and tweak my proposal (already did hence the chase part) but just claiming it was abusive that killers couldn't camp doesnt really make sense becuase again the whole point was to remove camping.
Its those unintended consequences I'm genuinely looking for and so I keep trying to find them when someone mentions abuse but it's been a while since someone brought up a legit one.
Edit if you've got one I'm all ears by the way
-
@[Deleted User] said:
The problem with this argument is that we're essentially saying survivors have poor game sense, so we need to buff them tremendously. That causes a huge amount of power creep at the top end of play. There has to be some expectation that survivors need to play well to win.
My complaint with camping is that it's boring and there isn't anything you can do to stop it. I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if there was something that you could do but at the moment the only option is don't get caught which would be fine if the game wasn't designed to have you get caught in a chase, i mean that's why killers are faster at base level and get faster with bloodlust.
I suppose if we set it so killers they didn't just get faster and faster during chases then the survivor could actually manage to not get caught against a similarly skilled killer but then there'd have to be some sort of expectation that killers need to play well and I don't think that would go over well.
Besides the game is more fun when the killers can catch survivors easier so why not just make camping so terrible for killers they stop using it
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2172320#Comment_2172320
Here we go again. 'It's not abused because it does exactly what I want, while also ignoring any and all times where camping is needed to apply pressure! But because that only affects Killers; I'm fine with it!'
You've been told how it was abused. You not seeing it does not change the past. Nor does it mean it will be added if you beg hard enough. The mods even pointed out earlier tonight, that camping, slugging, and tunneling are not against the rules.
Make up all the 'punishments' you want; none of them will ever appear in the game.
Yah thats cool the proposal to stop camping was to stop hook timer except in chase when killer nearby
You can say its not something that should be implemented because you like camping. And that part about camping being Part of the game, well Obviously campiny is currently part of the game. the whole point of what I was talking about was how to change the game to remove camping as a viable option. Becuase it certainly is a good killer strat as is.
Now if the devs don't want to remove camping then they shouldn't implement what I'm talking about.
That being said don't say that the survivors could abuse it if you can't actually think of a way they could do so. Just say how much you love camping and don't want anuthjng implemented that would stop camping because it would take away your current strategy or whatever other justification you want. Becuase again this isn't about if camping should be removed or not it's about how it could be removed (if the devs wanted to)
-
@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138347#Comment_2138347
That idea was already tried and abused by survivors.
Camping is only as viable as survivors allow it to be. Bite the bullet and either stay on that hook or work on gens. Boring? Sure. That's why I used the expression "bite the bullet".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2170594#Comment_2170594
If two survivors are at the hook, camping is also a good idea. You have 1 survivor doing gens and 3 doing nothing, as long as you camp.
Funny I keep hearing that people post it was abused but when I ask them how the answer I get tends to be well it stopped camping when the killer wanted to camp so that's abuse..... which always seemed weird that killers think stopping camping is a form if abuse.
Except for one guy who pointed out that survivors woukd lead a chase back to the hook hence the chase exception. I'm going to ask you of you could explain the abuse because I'm always trying to improve my proposal but again don't bother if the abuse is just that it stopped camping becuase rewmebr that's the goal.
Oh and as a handy test if you replace the survivor action your going to claim is abuse with something like "the survivors stood in a corner across the map" and it has the same effect on the killer as your example, then it's not an abuse
-
@HighwayCatalyst said:
Your poll is biased and you're trying to force a binary answer to a multifaceted question.
It's not that complicated, there are 2 choices one that says camping is always terrible and should never be used in any situation because it's terrible and you'll lose, the other option is the opposite it says that camping is a good strategy.
Not sure why your having trouble with it, it's an easy test. Do you think you should never camp? Then your option 2 otherwise option one. Did that clear it up
-
@DBD78 said:
If you are good at camping, that means you can also end chases fast and defend the hook..then camping is almost always 3-4k even in red ranks.
How can you be bad at camping? You just stand and wait and occasionally grab a survivor who runs right up in front of you cause there trying to unhook
-
@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2159801#Comment_2159801
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2159801#Comment_2159801
Not as often unless you say in the evening hours
But then why bother spending the time depipping if your trying to avoid high level players if that's not going to help and it's based just around what time you play
-
@SOMENINJANAME said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2122987#Comment_2122987
You seem fun. This isn't a right or wrong issue. There are variables to consider based on how the survivors are playing. I'm assuming you prefer to play Survivor, which is fine.
The answer you choose isn't right or wrong unless you try to choose both. Then you wrong. Maybe the problem is that it involves camping so it's too close an issue for you.
Here try this instead let's pretend my question was about if you should eat vanilla ice cream
If you think vanilla ice cream is something you should eat all the time for every meal you are in 1
If you think vanilla ice cream is something you should have some times theb your also in 1
If you think vanilla ice cream should never be eaten ever then you are in 2
You see you may like or dislike vanilla ice cream so choosing 1 or 2 is fine depending on your taste. But you can not think vanilla ice cream is something that should never be eaten and that its good to eat sometimes/all the time becuase those are contradictory.
Hope you can figure it out now
-
I thought abusing bugs was something your supposed to report?
-
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166873#Comment_2166873
I'm not sure they've said specifically what the minimum amount of time is, but it's something like 15 minutes. If it gets close to or surpasses 15 minutes of survivors not touching a generator, then report them in-game and also submit a ticket with video evidence (it requires both).
Oh it's touching gens thay prevents the ban?,
In the few games I've played through this I would find a gen with a little progress I figured to keep the crows away guess it was to prevent being banned.
I wondered why they poked the gens I figurednit would have been safer to be as far away from then as possible so that's where I started looking. Now I know
-
@deckyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166841#Comment_2166841
they were both together, both in basement lockers racking up "basement time" points and griefing me while they were at it.
i suspect any time i wasn't there they would be out of the lockers wiggling around the room, and then as soon as i come near, they both hop in the lockers.
survivors that are hiding while trying to accomplish something (hatch, generator) are actually trackable and findable because of crows. survivors that just do this, which is griefing, are only discoverable if you check literally every single locker on the map.
do you want to know how i found that out? 😔😔
Well If its any consolation they don't get infinite basement points I'm pretty sure it caps out pretty quick.
Also yah gotta check the basement they figure you won't go there becuase you think a survivor wouldnt go there
-
@Revolver_Ocelot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166861#Comment_2166861
Essentially it ruins gameplay for Killers that want to play stealthy characters. It has the same range as Premonition too which is broken. I needs some sort of weakness against stealthy Killers otherwise there is no point playing as them.
I thought its weakness was that it wasn't all that great if you paired up with a loud killer?
Sort of a rock paper scissors thing
-
@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2166841#Comment_2166841
The survivors don't go afk, they stealth around the map, staying far away from unfinished generators. This can go on indefinitely, and as long as the survivors hide without touching gens the killer can't end the match.
If survivors go for too long without touching a generator, it's considered holding the game hostage and it is bannable.
Yah if there moving around you can find them, if they don't move the birds get them hensd the move methodically and pay attention part.
I dodnt realize it was bannable to not do gens, how long do the devs give before it becomes a banable? I don't play killer often but it'd be good to know so I can report next time
-
@Revolver_Ocelot said:
Spine Chill against naturally stealthy Killers (The Wraith, The Shape, The Pig, The Ghost Face, etc.) is overpowered.
1) One of the best perks in the game.
2) Unlike Premonition, constantly notifies you when the Killer is near and you don't have to face the Killer's direction.
3) Reduces stealth Killers to normal Killers with no maneuvers or abilities other than move and slash. (You'll have to use some skill without it and physically pay attention to your surroundings. Scary right?)
4) No cooldown or deactivation for the remainder of the trial after X seconds of total usage.
My suggestion, at LEAST for a test in a PTB:
1) Give Killers with small terror radii (does not actively have the Undetectable status effect) immunity to Spine Chill.
2) Give Killers with small terror radii a clause in their power that gives immunity to detection perks while actively using their power (mainly while The Shape and The Ghost Face are actively stalking -- they already suffer from decreased movement speed while stalking).
Devs, if you're reading this, at least try a test in a PTB to see how this would affect gameplay. I'm a huge Halloween fan and would like to see The Shape actually able to sneak up on people again.
I don't think I can the perk is very effective against a stealthy killer, much more so than their loud counterparts. But I think that was kind of the entire purpose of the perk wasn't it to detected hidden killers?
-
Well I was going to say it's easy enough to catch survivors when the hide, they get crows if they stay to long so if your paying attention and checking every locker while moving methodically through the map you can Track down two survivors easily but infigured you'd be better off with a perknthaybdoes thay for you.
And although really slow I don't believe it's bannable for the survivors to be so good at hiding that you can't find them.
I'm curious.did you find them both together or just get one in the end? Or did they escape
-
@deckyr said:
so tired of survivors taking my games hostage because two people died. they died! get over it and die with them, i want to do my next game.
if you can't fix 5 gens and then leave in 20 minutes then you don't deserve to get out, and if you want to hide in lockers for 20 minutes then you definitely don't deserve to get out.
good lord.
am i fresh off the back of an absolutely rancid game where two survivors decided to take it hostage? perhaps.
/rant
If your having trouble finding survors may I recommend whispers perk
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164298#Comment_2164298
Come on Yellow Belly... the night it getting long. It is time, in the parlance of Perk for you to PROVE THYSELF. I'm not letting you squirm out of this and no amount of your inane misdirection is going to work. The only thing I'm going to respond to from you is where, when, and how... or that you are crying off. From this point on, you have to prove your qualifications for why you think you know what is best for the game and how it needs to be changed. You need to prove why you think you know better.
On a productive note, you did help me with the writer's block. I've a slimy little weasel of a character I'm adding in the chapter I'm outlining. I'll be writing a few pages of that for a bit and check back in later to see if you are ready yet. Again, no more evasions, no more banter... time for you to PROVE YOUR QUALIFICATIONS. If you can't, or won't, I'm not wasting anymore time with you. We are on display right now... clock is ticking.
I told you I'd play to test out camping if you'd give me a strait answer. Unlike you I don't change mind from post to post so if you actually give me a strait answer about if you were full of it when you said moris were super important to Player agency, or if you were full of it when you said that moris don't mater I'll Playtest with you.
He'll I've got nothing to lose if you can teach me a way to stop the killer from camping me then great. If you die ill laugh sowin win I'm extra game. I've got the set up i think figured out on how to test it as well.
It's getting a bit late tonight here but I'm free most of tommorow evening if that works for you, Wednesday I've got an hour or two around 7 (it's after midnight here for referenfe) but Thursday I'm busy I'm afraid. If those times don't work for you let me know.
Like I said if your actually prepared to play me to show me how easy it is for you escape from the killer great just answer my question and let's go. If you were just full if it when you said you wanted to play well I guess I'm a little dissipated but it would be par for the coarse for how you've been acting So I can't say I'm surprised.
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164274#Comment_2164274
No. Until you prove you have ANY credentials, even the smallest ounce of skill, your words and silly questions are moot. You haven't fooled anyone reading this thread, and I'm glad you did what you did because as people read through it, you are advertising your personal defects. At this point, YOU are the one trying to change the status quo. That means the weight is on YOU to prove that it needs changing, and that YOU are the person with the right suggestions. The onus was never on me because I'm fine with playing the game as the DEV state it is to be played. You are the one wanting change, and you are the one who has to meet a minimum bar. I think you are stalling and crying off. I will await with baited breath for you to get back with us (try for sometime this week please... I need the funny content) with exactly how I'm going to be Killer to prove your weird points. Until you prove you have any standing talking about this game, you are a joke. Get cracking.
Hahahaha so first you can't keep your own points consistent and now its
my points don't matter unless I play you in a match first.
And then I'd imagine you have some other excuse lined up as to why your unable to give a strait answer.
I've made it clear that I think your disingenuous in your arguments, that all they stuff about player agency was just a mask to hide behind the truth which is you like to camp.
I've been pretty open about my issues I don't like camping becuase its boring and I suppose although I didn't state it directly in this thread yes there isn't really much of anything you can do about it as the survivor. If you camped it's just a sit and wait and then press struggle till you fall asleep from boredom.
But as I said if you want to play then I expect you to stop changing your points partway through and pretending you didn't.
Give me a strait answer, we're you full of it when you said moris were supper important to Player agency or were you full of it when you said that moris don't matter at all.
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164252#Comment_2164252
Yes, I do. I know this is difficult for you to understand. You have demonstrated over and over again that you can't follow the arguments. But let me sum it up for you, I'll use little words and numbered points:
- You indicate that you think Camping is a problem.
- You indicate in several of your posts that you think it is OP.
- If it is as bad as you indicate, you should have no problem wiping the floor with us.
You playing Killer and using the tactics that you say are problematic is the only way to prove your point. I'm fine playing Killer in our little test if you can figure out a way to prove your point with me doing so?
Alright fair enough I'll come up with a way to test out camping with as few variables as possible. In the meantime you answer my question. Or admit you were full of it either way works for me.
Is there a particular killer your prefer I play? Not Bubba though I hate him
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164238#Comment_2164238
Simple. You can be Killer and Camp and Tunnel or Slug or any combination you want to your heart's content to prove to us that it is broken. We will just play Survivor and try to get out. If your whining, mewling (endless) screeds about Camping are correct, we shouldn't stand a chance against you right?
I mean, I'd offer to play Killer but what would that prove? We already know you don't have what it takes to play Survivor. And my stomping you backwards and forwards (even with a team of your friends) isn't relevant to the points you have failed to make. I've got two other guys and a gal willing to take part already. I need the content, plan on making you a Blooper Reel. And if you show us up, prove your point, I'll still stream it.
I'm still waiting for my answer.
Wait so to be clear you said earlier that you read through mynposts and deduced I was a survivor main, shouldn't have been hard considering I've stated as much a few times, then you challenge me to a match becuas I called you on your bs, but you want me to play the killer instead of the survivor.?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164231#Comment_2164231
Pretending you didn't hear me call you out just now doesn't mean it didn't happen. Come on... time to pay the piper... are we doing this or what? You haven't explained why you have never made a single post asking for help in dealing with the most basic problems. You haven't answered my direction question as to why you don't take any personal responsibility for your failures. I just threw down the gauntlet. Since you clearly don't need help, you must be AWESOME at this game. It is time for you to prove it. If we are to put any weight behind your words, you need to demonstrate that you have the skills and knowledge to make these suggestions on how to "fix" things in regards to camping. Clearly you seem to think you know more than people who have been here since the very start. PROVE IT. I'm sitting in custom room right now Yellow Belly... are we on or are you crying off?
Sorry just to be clear here your not gonna admit you were full of it and instead your response is come fight me outside?
I want ignoring your point about why I didn't make a post about asking for help with basic problems is I'm not sure what problems you seem to think I've had with the game thay needed help.
If you've read through my posts I'm sure you've seen some about the bugs in the game I remebr asking about some of the challenges not working and it turned out they only worked on one map for some reason it that's what your looking for fine.
As for playing you what precisely are you proposing for a match?
Edit I still expect an answer to my question first
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164210#Comment_2164210
Your lack of reading comprehension isn't actually helping your arguments; you have to know that right? This is sad. It is time for you to put up or shut up. Why are NONE of your posts asking for help? You pretty much hit the ground running in complaining about the game from the very start. Why is that? Isn't it customary for someone to learn how to play something before they blame their problems on others? Let's see what you are made of. Clearly you and I have time right now. Let's get game on and I'll stream it. I think it could very fun, educational for both of us.
Huh you seen to have completely ignored the whole you keep drastically changing your position in things part of my post.
Since your reading comprehension is so good could you read that first of three quotes and tell me if moris are important to player agency. The second one is pretty online with the first but Then read the third one about how there notting more than animations and see if you can find a consistently held believe in there.
I'm not sure which you believe at this point are moris important like you first stated or nothing important like your last post. Maybe you could clarify which of your posts is your actual belief and which is bs?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164170#Comment_2164170
Because a Mori is not a tactic you nimrod. A Mori is an animation that plays for fun, particularly now that they basically replace the third hook. The Mori was a shortcut, not unlike Keys. Tactics and Offerings do not function the same way in the game. If we took your insane logic to its logical conclusion, the Killer would have to put in an Offering to get to decide who he/she gets to chase when someone is unhooked. Choosing the same person twice in a row would require an Offering for some reason. Or your same idiotic logic would mean I can't slug more than one person in a row unless I put in an offering to decide not to hook this person yet. Are you still unable to follow this? Are you still unable to understand why tactics, i.e. Player Agency is different and necessary to the game?
You are new and don't have that many hours. We know exactly when you started playing because you comment on it in your early posts. You also play mostly Survivor (that is also in your posts) so you have a skewed, self-serving way of looking at the game. I play both Survivor and Killer in equal measure and my hours dwarf yours. In turn, there are people whose hours make mine look so insignificant that you couldn't graph them in comparison. Those people will tell you pretty much the same thing I have been (and so have others). This isn't about "us versus them". Most of us play both roles, far more of us in fact than people like you who only play one. We have a broader, more rounded view of the game than you do and to be honest more experience. Nobody is trying to tell you that being camped is fun. I don't enjoy sitting on the hook anymore than you do. That is why I practice looping, ask questions about how to get better, and work on my evading/stealth. I take steps in the game to mitigate my chances of being on that hook. However, I also understand that sometimes I NEED to be on it for the team. I don't shirk that duty either. I'm playing to win as a Survivor just as I'm playing to win as a Killer. Sitting on that hook is part of the dues you pay.
What part of they aren't changing it for you do you not understand? :) What part of you being a whining, blame others for your own problems type of person do you not understand? I noticed that you didn't answer me when I asked you why I never found a single post where you ask for help in how to play better and deal with Camping, Tunneling, Slugging, etc. I found lots of posts where you report weird little problems you had on this map or doing so and so, but NOTHING in regards to you trying to better you play. Why is that? Are you already perfect? Shall we play a game right now and you demonstrate to me (we can eve broadcast it) how excellent you are at this game and thus your knowledge must be right. I mean, someone who never asks for help must know it all already right? Why is it I'm only finding posts where you complain about others and the game, but never any where you take responsibility?
But here its changes again now moris aren't important just an animation
I'm surprised you called me a nimrod for thinking moris were vital to the game and players without the option to use them were nothing more than Bots where could I have gotten that idea from I wonder......
You keep drastically changing your points. First moris were among the 5 sacred things killers needed to be more than mere bots. Now moris don't mean a thing about player agency.
You want to go back and change your position again or just admit nothing about agency matters to you, you just Wana camp. Honestly it's not like your alone in wanting to do so just be upfront and honest about it
Edit sorry about the three posts apparently I'm not very good with quotes, was supposed to be one large post
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163881#Comment_2163881
What part of what I just wrote do you NOT understand? I said yes, it reduces them to Bots. I literally just said it in the post you answered. At this point, I have to believe you are playing dumb to avoid the debate, because there is no way you are this obtuse.
Hey look here you are clarifying thay loosing any one of the five reduces them to bots
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163495#Comment_2163495
There is a difference between buffing, debuffing, and reworking Add-on(s) and Perks. You still have Player Agency, i.e. a CHOICE, to choose said things or leave them off. Artificial mechanics which strictly regulate how Players can function in the game remove Player Agency entirely. These are apples an oranges. If you remove agency, you lose Players; it is as simple as that. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing a glorified BOT. Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines who have to run around like the four Ghosts in Pac Man. Choice, or at least an illusion of it, has to exist to keep the interest of any Player in any game. What you fail to understand is that the DEV tested all sorts of things over the years and came to the same conclusion over and over again. Not only will Survivors immediately abuse any artificial constraint placed on Killers, but Players simply opt out of playing Killer when they realize they have little in the way of choices to make. When it comes to "chase" games there are far better ones than DbD. What makes this game unique is PLAYER AGENCY and the unpredictable (and sometimes unfair) nature of it.
So let me lay it out for you again:
- There are no Bots.
- Since both roles are required for the game to work DbD must avoid loss of either role.
- Since you need at least one Killer to four Survivors, there is a smaller margin of error on losing Killers.
So unless you find an ENTIRELY NEW WAY to rebuild DbD from the ground up to provide Killers new, alternate choices besides running around like mindless Bots in chases with zero tactics to apply, these biased (dare I say tunnel-vision) constraints are DOA. Players who take on the role of Killers expect AND DESERVE exactly the same agency as those playing Survivor.
Man it's so weird here you said without mori or any of the other four listed Killers are basically Bots. Chase engines I 5hink you called them. But I'm pretty sure I asked you to clarify if that's what you meant
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164152#Comment_2164152
Honestly? I'm starting to wonder about you, perhaps this playing dumb isn't just an act. You honestly cannot discern different concepts from one another can you? You are so drown in your bias that you cannot look at the game objectively. You seem totally unable to follow the conversation we have been having for hours, and still are mixing different things together as if there are the same. I felt better when I thought you were playing stupid as a rhetorical trick. The other option is too horrible to consider. There is literally nothing I can say that makes you look worse than you do yourself, every single time you post. At this point, I feel like I'm clubbing a baby seal.
Sorry didn't see an answer in there? Its almost like your points about player agency were all bs, but I'll give you another shot.
If moris requiring an offering doesn't reduce Killers to bots why would doing the same thing to camping be such an issue from the perspective of your don't prevent camping it turns player into bots argument?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164147#Comment_2164147
Yeah, I can see that. This is a constructive suggestion, short and to the point. I should take a page out of your book. I agree, people who get camped out and spend the ENTIRE time on the hook (which means waiting out Stage-1 and struggling to the end of Stage-2) should at the least, not lose a Pip.
Only problem with that is, it doesn't solve the primary issue with camping, that is how boring it is.
I'm not opposed to the suggestion mind you. I've seen a number of posts about treating it like distracting a killer during a chase for light bringer, they make sense and tie in well
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164111#Comment_2164111
Again, don't play stupid. I've read all your posts already, and you have a very specific way of evading topics and trying to turn the conversation. I haven't commented on whether or not Camping should require an offering because that is a moronic suggestion in the first place. I wish there was a nice way of saying it. We touched on Add-on(s) and Offerings earlier, talking about how they are different from tactics. What you are talking about is not only moronic it would be so cost prohibitive to try to code that it would bankrupt BEhavior even trying to attempt it. Let me cue you in on something else, since I know you SO MUCH BETTER now that I took the time to read all your comments (and the discussions you started). Camping and Tunneling are entirely SUBJECTIVE terms in regards to this game. There is no agreed upon meaning to either. How do you code something that cannot be defined? I know how you would define it, after reading all your drivel. But you are new, and apparently cursed. The sheer VOLUME of your discussions and comments regarding weird little problems and reports you make is insane. I've never seen anyone here constantly having issues with the most basic things. It is almost as if you are just making them up for attention. If all those are genuine, you must wander around with a little black cloud over your head, and it is always raining on you.
No, I don't think Killers should have to put in offerings to practice Player Agency in the game. The very notion is hair-brained. You haven't gotten any traction in ANY of your Discussions, polls, and threads because they are full of fuzzy thinking, self-serving nonsense, and all boil down to you thinking something isn't fun for YOU. I particularly like how in one you start it with, "Third time is the charm..." and go on to blame Killer mains for your failures to get any traction in your posts. You even blame others for your failures here.
Well see now I must say I'm confused first you said that loosing camping tunneling slugging mories or herding would reduce Killers to little more than Bots.
But you made an exception for mories because even though you don't get them in every game it was not reducing killers to bots becuase they still had the choice to play the offering or not.
From a player agency perspective wouldn't that mean that having camping function in the same way would not be objectionable from a player agency perspective, which you have stated is your issue with removal of camping.
As for the definition that is so incredibly difficult to define and program I would submit thay an easy definition would be if killer is within x of hooked survivor he is camping. Seems simple Strait forwards and easy enough to code.
I'm told that there was actually code in place to stop the hook timer but that they ran into issues when they tested it becuase survivors would force chases near hooks, hence the chase exception. Not sure how they managed such a cost prohibitive bit of coding but they apparently found a way
Sorry Herding not hearing
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164081#Comment_2164081
Sorry, no dice. I'm not playing rhetorical games with you. I took the time to read EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts since you started here at the Forum. It didn't take long, but it was tedious. My assessment of you is bang on the nose. Since you like the play games and talk about me, let's talk about you. I'm going to start quoting from all your posts putting them up in a wonderful little montage that showcases what you are about EXACTLY. I was going to work on a new chapter in a project I'm writing, but I've got writer's block tonight so it is YOUR lucky day. I'm already compiling the hits; I have to warn you, when they are laid out together, it doesn't show you in the best light. If you were a character on SNL you would be Debbie Downer.
Fair enough I think I've been pretty upfront about what I want, to stop camping and why, becuase It's incredibly boring.
And I didn't mean to imply that I didn't read you post just that when I read it I didn't see an answer to the one question it was proporting to answer, which was and is, do you still object if camping required an offering.
As the inclusion of an offering would still comply with the not taking away player choice that you have been claiming is the reason that camping shouldn't be removed, it would seem to me like you wouldn't have a problem, unless it's not really about choice you just want to keep camping in.
So yes or no to camping with an offering like moris?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163989#Comment_2163989
No, the only real problem is you can't debate any of the assertions I've made so you are playing rhetorical games and trying to keep the discussion about me rather than the topic. You lost that debate hours ago. You aren't fooling anyone reading these posts, and insulting our intelligence with these pathetic attempts at misdirection is almost amusing. You lost the argument, but to be honest it was DOA. There is no discussion on this matter that has any meaning because, as has been stated by many of us many times, the DEV have already told you they aren't changing it. You are a whiner that likes to blame your personal failures on other people and/or the game. All this jibber-jabber has been about lying to us but more importantly about lying to yourself. It is far easier to try and vilify some tactic in the game or other Players than it is to accept that you simply don't have the right stuff.
Rather than attempt to take stock and learn how to improve yourself, you come here (you and quite a few others) to moan and groan and try to get someone else to solve your problems. It is pathetic. It tells us everything we need to know about your personal character and ethics. Then you compound that image we have of you by playing with rhetoric rather than honestly having a discussion about the topic. What you could be doing in a thread is asking people how they deal with Campers, what solutions have they found effective, and asking what you can do to better deal with the issue. You aren't doing that; you aren't even paying lip service to pretending to do that. Even though thousands upon thousands manage to get by just fine, you (and your ilk) pretend like there are no solutions other than having the DEVs fix it for you. What a strange, small context you live inside.
Sorry your post went on for quite a while but I didn't see an answer, or I missed it becuase apparently just getting to the point is too honest for you.
So did you say it would be OK if there was an offering that would alow you to camp? becuase now it's a still a choice? I mean then it would be no different choice wise from a mori right?
Oh and to be clear I'm not avoiding your arguments about the importance of choices I'm just going to 1 go through them 1 at a time so you can't keep changing you mind part way through, and 2 making sure you actually believe the points your making because why argue a point that no one in the argument actually believes, not much different from a red hearing at that point
-
@Mysterynovus said:
Actual gen rush would be Survivors bringing everything that focuses on gens and nothing else. BNP, commodious toolboxes, Prove Thyself, the works, and going out of their way to do nothing but gens.
What most people call gen rush is Survivors being efficient on disgustingly large maps.
See the issue with that definition is that it requires the toolboxes and Perks. If they did the exact same thing without toolboxes I'd say it was still genrushing but by your definition it wouldbt be.
Similarly if they brought all the perks then spent their entire match chasing hookednsurvivors and not doing a single gem would you call it gen rushing?
That's why I think the action of not helping teammates and doing nothing but gens is gen rushing. With the exception that not all 3 other survivors have to go save the hooked survivor just one
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163892#Comment_2163892
No, and stop playing dumb. The point is not that I use a Mori in every match (I rarely use them) but that I have the OPTION to use them. I know where you want to go with these inane questions, and it is a moot direction. We are talking about CHOICE, not application. Players must have agency or they lose interest. Whether they exercise it or not, it is important that it is an option.
Right like you said it's important to have choices. The point though about the loss of one choice invalidating all other options is where I take issue. So how is it that the loss of a single choice can be so important yet notnmatter at all when you loose one?
Bear in mind that not having a mori offering means you lost that option in the match or as you put it become become little more than Bots. But if your going to respond with well it only matters if you lose the choice sometimes becuase you can always choose to play the offering and that's OK, then I'm going to have to ask if there was an offering you could burn theb would you be OK with my proposal? After all now it's not effecting player agency to the point killers become Bots right?
No I'd imagine now there's something else that's wrong , becuade let's face it at the end if the day your real problem with it is that you are a camper.
But I'll still hear it what would be the next problem?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163881#Comment_2163881
What part of what I just wrote do you NOT understand? I said yes, it reduces them to Bots. I literally just said it in the post you answered. At this point, I have to believe you are playing dumb to avoid the debate, because there is no way you are this obtuse.
Sorry i was editing I know you posted it but I didn't want to misunderstand becuase it got lost in the rest of your post.
So to clarify losing one of those 5 effectively reduces you to a bot.
My next question is do you play a mori offering every single match?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163831#Comment_2163831
Ok, let me try to explain this in more plain terms because I'm very consistent. I suspect I'm losing you where we come to philosophical concepts of player agency, i.e. free will. I believe removing any of them does reduce Killers to being glorified Bots. If their choices are not their own, but ordained by mechanics put in to force them to act in specific ways, there is no other way of looking at it. You either believe in free will or you do not. You either have free agency or you do not. It isn't something you can half ass. For example, the DEV clearly understand this (desire it even). Consider Totems. They could make them MANDATORY, yet another hurdle that you have no choice but to complete before exiting the match. Because they understand that Survivors should have agency, they make cleansing them optional. It is one many choices Survivors can make. Killers have fewer choices by in large, and the loss of any of them will turn them into chase bots. Without the ability to camp or honeypot as an option (taken or not) they are chase bots whose only options are who to chase and whether I hook now or slug to continue chasing. That's it. So yes, the ability to ambush, particularly in and around a hook is paramount. Will Killers do it all the time? No. They don't do it all the time now; that is merely hyperbole. But what is important is they have the option to do it. Does that answer your question?
Man it's like you took great pains to write a long post ignore the really simple question. Do you believe your own post or not
You said loosing any of the 5 killer plays would effectively reduce them to bots. Do you believe this or not?
You wrote it Do you believe it or not? Either way is fine there's no wrong answer just gotta be honest.
Edit sorry to clarify I want a strait yes or no answer because you seem to change you mind when you post large things so I'm trying to make sure I don't misunderstnd you
-
@CornMoss said:
Just had this game as trapper, I had a meg on hook and the other three survivors chose to do gens over getting Meg (was not camping at all btw). She then went onto second state on hook and they saved her last second. They had no toolboxes or perks to speed up generators and the gens were done in less than 4 minutes. In my opinion that is what gen rush is.
Does this seem fair to you? What do you believe gen rush means?
We were talking about the definition of gen rushing in another thread. Seems like the most consistent definition would be survivors who work on gens to thr exclusion of their teammates ie not healing or saving. With the exception that it is not gen rushing to ignore a hooked survivor if another survivor is going to save them. So if all three were ignoring their teammate then they were gen rushing until they went for thr save
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163796#Comment_2163796
Oh, I get it now. You want to play rhetorical games with me rather than answering any of the arguments I put forward. There are a couple of issues with your approach, not the least of which is that I am famous (or infamous if you prefer) for enjoying grinding people like you into the ground. The other issue is that I neither like nor dislike Camping. I consider it just a niche tool, and have no emotional attachment to it one way or the other. I consider removing Killer choices bad because as I stated:
- All previous attempts tested resulted in Survivors abusing the heck out of it.
- Killers quit playing when they realized they had few choices to make.
I simply play the game to win, regardless of what role I'm currently taking on. I will happily Herd, Camp, Tunnel, Slug, and use a Mori if that is the right call for a specific match. Tactics are not strategies, and attempting to use tactics as a strategy is a losing proposition. You don't know what is the best tactic to use in a match until you arrive. By in large, I find Camping inefficient because Generator pressure is a better route nine times out of ten, to preventing the gates from ever powering up before I kill everyone. That is the same reason I rarely use NOED. I don't like to build for an End Game that I never intend to reach. You are simply barking up the WRONG tree. You are making assumptions about why I am debating with you. You assume it is because I am afraid of losing my favorite toy. Your failure to comprehend is your problem, not mine. I simply understand the game, understand the history, and know the testing. You clearly do not.
Oh no I don't want rhetorical questions I want a strait answer to my question
Your post said losing one of those 5 option you listed would reduce a killer to little more than a bot. Then you seemed to change your mind on this point. So do you believe what you posted or not?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163727#Comment_2163727
Do you need me to use smaller words? I'm not sure where your failure to comprehend is taking place. I've already told you what I think, that Player Agency is paramount in this game for both Killer and Survivor. That means that mechanics which constrain what people can do in the match are a bad idea. I think losing any agency whatsoever is the wrong approach, and I am backed up by the fact that this has ALREADY been tested. I'm not stating anything new, or claiming divine wisdom. I'm stating the results of test after test after test. Killers must have agency to make their own choices once the match begins or the game doesn't work. You have to break some eggs to make an omelet, and thus you must take some bad for the greater good. That means that the two minutes we take on the hook from time to time is the price we pay for the game to work overall. Some of us understand that and pay our dues. Some of us are selfish little snots who think the world revolves around them and don't care about the big picture.
The size of your words is fine it's the consistency of them that's the problem. Before you said that killers would be nothing more than Bots if they lost one of 5 things you listed. Then you seemed tobl reduce those all import things to just three. So just make it simple do you still believe what you posted about needing those 5 things or the killers become little more than Bots like you said or not. It shouldn't be too hard to say yes that is what I believe that's why I typed it in, or no that's not what I really believe I just said that because I need camping in this game and this sounded like a better argument in my head than
Camping is good because I like camping don't get rid of it.
I await your clarification
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163630#Comment_2163630
Losing any of the very few options Killers have, besides chase, would be devastating to Player agency. More to the point, if they were to remove even ONE of the big three, i.e. Camp, Tunnel, or Slug, it would not stop there. You and your ilk would just be emboldened by the success and move on to getting the next one removed too. :) That is also something we have seen over and over again. Player agency is a harsh mistress, you either have it or you don't. But let me echo a point I made earlier (as have many others besides me):
The DEV have already told you it isn't going to happen. They have gone five years now, so I think they are pretty happy with their final call. They experimented a great deal and came to the same conclusion over and over again. You act like these ideas you guys are putting forward are new and revolutionary. The are not. They are simply a rehash of tested notions repackaged and vomited back up with salt and angst. There isn't going to be any Deus Ex Machina. You can argue with me until you are blue in the face. It doesn't matter if you could change my mind or not, this Rubicon has already been crossed and there is no going back.
Sorry I'm having trouble following you now. We're the killers glorified bots if they loose one of those things or not? Or now is it only if they lose camping and tunneling and slugging. Could you make up your mind on what your claiming to believe real quick?
I say claiming because it seems like you don't really believe what you post you just really don't want to loose camping but I could be wrong so I'm looking for clarification
Edit sorry posted bits meant to type bots