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@GannTM said:
Ur mom
Over 5000 posts, wow, you have spent your days well HAHAHAHAHA LOFL
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@GannTM said:
Ur mom
None have conquered as many caucks as she, tis true.
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I say no because the vast majority of people who get those bans did so because they left/quit. However, your'e correct that it isn't fair. My cat spepped on the big button on the router and I got a ban, and I was laughing at how inefficient this system is. This problem exists in many games.
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Charles Lee Ray in human form would be cool, but it wouldn't attract too much new revenue.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2626224#Comment_2626224
Truth
It's true, experience doesn't specifically denote whether you're right about something. Although it probably does give you an edge in terms of foundational knowledge in most cases- for example I believe it's ridiculous for people that have never actually experienced old Freddy for some reason are among the number of forum users voting to have that version of him back. That support doesn't seem dubious or misplaced to you in the slightest?
Equally though, if we're going to talk about actual evidence in regards to truth- I would point out that numbers (majority / minority) don't make something true either. You can cite any number of people in any number of circumstances to find that little piece of wisdom is also true, a basic examples: a majority of people throughout the first half of the 20th century didn't believe smoking / nicotine was related to lung cancer (or any negative ailments) until medical studies throughout the 50's and 60's came out. Or perhaps even more simple: a majority of children believe in Santa Claus.
These are perfect examples to say that even if you had a majority, that wouldn't necessarily make you right. I believe in philosophy they call this "Argumentum ad populum" or the Appeal to Popularity / Appeal to Numbers fallacy. So you can throw as many polls my way as you want, it all falls under the same pretense- it doesn't somehow immediately make the return of old Freddy a good thing.
"Foolish"
As for this whole fixation on my use of the word "foolish" I think you're taking it far too seriously. Whenever I'm on the forums I make it a point to criticize ideas, not people, I frankly don't know anyone here personally and equally nobody here knows me personally. I have no right to make any personal judgements nor does anyone else, unlike @SOMENINJANAME for example, who felt personally obligated to throw some libel my way, not that it had any particular relevance to the thread.
So when I say foolish, foolhardy, stupid, or any number of adjectives to that effect- they are purely in regards to an idea, notion, or suggestion. This idea that you can't call somebody out on a dumb idea because that's "not nice" or "there are no dumb ideas" is ludicrous. If I said right now that survivors should run at a base speed of 120% and have 3 health states instead of two, I would hope that you would call me out and say that's absolutely ######### absurd- and rightfully so!
"Now do you know why the devs reworked him?"
I feel like this is a very weird misdirect. I think you know exactly why the devs reworked him, I think you know that I know, we all for the most part know exactly why, and restating so almost feels redundant. To claim that it was some bold, out of the blue change that came out of nowhere that nobody wanted except some obscure guy with less than 10 hours, is well.. bold to say the least.
But I wanted to indulge you in that answer and before I go any further I want you to please appreciate just how long it took me to find this. You'd think it'd be easy, but apparently all of Dead by Daylight's dev / community updates are just wiped from existence, and their official Youtube Channel was extremely difficult to navigate since apparently you can't scroll down to anything posted more than 5 months ago. Took me upwards of 30 minutes of diving around the forums, google, twitch, and youtube, but I finally found something that finally satisfies me so I hope it satisfies you as well. Here is your answer:
https://youtu.be/_ypdDN388Xg?t=856
https://youtu.be/JyWcUp8RcSE?t=4382
The Official Dead by Daylight Freddy Rework Livestream. Posted on Jul. 4, 2019, either the same day or just before the PTB came out for people to test the rework changes. Before this, in the 2nd video, The rework itself was actually introduced in the 3rd year anniversary livestream which saw the announcement Chapter XII: Ghostface, and this was posted on May 31st of 2019. In both videos, Stefan Horvath (Game Designer) lays it out in plain terms exactly why they were making these changes.
The response is consistent across both videos (and in both I have the URL linked to the specific time that this question of why was addressed) although he goes slightly more in depth in the follow up video (the first link). He cites "frustrations" amongst the playerbase specifically in regards to Freddy. This is what he says exactly:
"Ultimately, there was some frustrations playing as and against the nightmare, which Thierry and I, as well as other members of the team have tried to work towards alleviating- by addressing the power and changing things that were not as fun." -Stefan Horvath
You cannot get any more explicit than this @GeneralV there is no beating around the bush here whatsoever. You can't equate the Freddy rework to the mysterious on the fly changes that DBD makes out of the blue, to something that required as detailed and as comprehensive an effort as the Freddy rework. Great changes require great inciting incidents and there is simply no way you can say that the devs went out of their way, to spend time and money, creating a brand new fundamentally different power, which essentially restructured the killer from the ground up and really only retained one aspect from the original killer.
I mean seriously, your analogy is that creating a brand new killer, for no extra money whatsoever because the chapter had already been released, is somehow the same as when they decided to change Rat Liver. An Add-on. Or why they nerfed twins / deathslinger. Please tell me how these things are equatable, I desperately want to know. I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely want to know your thought process, and the line of logic that takes you from Rat Liver -> to full blown Killer release for no extra money. Because that is what happened to Freddy, he became a brand new killer, and nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the game before then, or since.
Actual arguments that relate to freddy
Finally I left the most quality part of your post for last. The actual argument / substance which I can address, starting with "Old Freddy excelled in control" this was the only bit of your post that I found had substance, although it was interspersed with statements like "just plain wrong" which isn't an argument. (Again, not a knock on you- but on the arguments you presented, let's stay focused here).
Yes. Freddy excelled in control, but this was really it. Again, he sacrificed everything for that control, map mobility, chase potential, he was made even weaker than most killers because he famously couldn't attack survivors for seven seconds.
Now you point out that all this required on the part of the player was to play Freddy in different ways, much like how you wouldn't play Nurse in the same way you play any other killer. However, I rebuttle by saying that even against a Freddy playing in the way that Freddy "was supposed to be played" was uninspired, and could easily be dealt with. Primarily this basically involved Freddy bouncing around between targets, pulling one person into the dream world and then going to another generator, pulling another in, and then returning to the first person who is caught off guard pressuring them rinse and repeat....
I say this isn't unique because it's not like the whole Guerrilla warfare technique isn't something killers do already. In fact this is the strategy most Stealth killers use nowadays and how you'll find most Wraith players at the high level will play. A Wraith will catch someone off guard, hit them, cloak, run off and hit somebody else, cloak again and return to the first guy and swoop in for the down. Old Freddy might have been the predecessor for this strategy, but it's no hidden secret amongst the playerbase now, and again- you'll find most Wraith's, Ghostface's, as well as just killers in general hitting somebody and then leaving them to apply pressure on another segment of the map.
And for Freddy, this strategy wasn't always a working one, because if you left somebody alone on a generator and went off to pressure somebody else, they had 7 entire seconds and then some to have RNG throw them a random skillcheck which they could easily fail, and force Freddy to redo the cycle all over again. This was something you could not do anything to change, and I would think that a proposed Freddy main would remember that.
Freddy wasn't unique, and I maintain that opinion. He was an M1 killer without a single chase tool, and had a permanent passive slowdown and aura reading on all survivors affected by his power. But the one thing that WAS unique about Freddy, was the dream world- and notice that they KEPT that mechanic when they reworked Freddy! In fact, it was the ONE thing they kept from his old base kit, the invisibility and intermittent visibility is still present in his kit today.
Crusaders
All this talk about "a righteous cause" and "demanding to return what was stolen" really only further cements my perspective that you're romanticizing this whole affair about Freddy, and looking at this topic through biased, rose tinted glasses. I have no doubt that to your "majority" these powerful and rousing words of inspiration are quite the call they can rally around!
But they do nothing for your argument. Certainly they do nothing to convince me that your opinion is anything other than "foolish" in this matter- and again to say for a third time, I do this to criticize constructively, not out of malice. Unlike some people in this thread, who seek to vilify those with opinions that differ from theirs, the barbarians.
So! I will meet your challenge, because I am equally firm in my own belief that this is an absolutely atrocious idea. I will myself, leave a final message that I will never stop. I will continue to criticize this wild and unfounded notion at every opportunity, and call the of old Freddy a blasphemous notion that stands against progress, for it is time to look to the future- to better and brighter ideas that aren't blinded by nostalgia or steeped in controversy.
And I will make sure, that for the sake of my fellow players whether they know better or not, Old Freddy Stays dead.
Even if that makes me a villain to some.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TCIET4DROUR9/image.png
https://youtu.be/YICrS1DiaeQ?t=2
Now, farewell.
TL;DR
- Agrumentum ad Populum - Appeal to Popularity / Appeal to Numbers is a fallacy. Even if you had a majority (which I argue against) it does not mean you are correct- in this case, it does not mean that bringing old Freddy back is a right decision or a good thing.
- I call ideas foolish because they are. I seek to criticize ideas, not people, and ideas that are deserving of criticism should be met with it, even if people don't like hearing it.
- We know exactly why the devs reworked him, and this isn't a secret. You're basically asking me to restate something I've already said, but I took a painstaking amount of time to find official statements from the dev team answering your question. Citing community "frustrations" with Freddy's old power that made him unfun to both play as, and against.
- Freddy was a weak killer who's margin for improvement had very little to do with how capable a Freddy you were, and more to do with how poorly prepared a survivor team was against a Freddy. Freddy's only benefit was his control and his slowdown, but lacked so severly in every other category that any other killer on the roster was a better pick than him at the time. There was little reason to pick him over any other killer in the roster.
- Freddy wasn't a unique killer. He was an M1 killer with a slowdown power and that is all- it probably took more thought and creativity to create the Twins than it did to make 2018 Freddy. His one redeeming quality was the interesting "dream world" addition which resulted in a visual mechanic where he was either invisible or could be intermittently seen before coming into full view. You'll notice that the one redeeming quality- was KEPT in the new modern version of Freddy.
- Romanticizing your argument and recommitting to it without actually having contributed much any substance is not good for any argument. Reaffirming your claim is not an argument, and it shows more of how lacking you are in terms of substantive points to debate with, rather than bolstering the strength of your rhetoric.
- Bonus point: There is more that I could have talked about! However you said this would be your last post, so I have decided not to expend the effort on discussing how an old Freddy would absolutely not survive in today's modern meta of Dead by Daylight, or how new Freddy actually does a better job of representing the unique aspects of Freddy from the films than old Freddy does- points that lacked context in this discussion.
- Bonus bonus point: I FOUND the video where the devs said they wouldn't keep both old freddy and new freddy / have old freddy make a return! Here it is, albeit it's slightly more open ended than I gave it credit for, but given they almost always say "never say never" to some degree- the point still stands that this is a deconfirm and would never happen in all but the unlikeliest of scenarios.
https://youtu.be/dSX_MgLNuHA?t=1387
NOTE:
If anybody responds to this post with something that I have already addressed because they decided to only read the TL;DR, I am only going to refer to them back to this main post.
EDIT:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2626374#Comment_2626374
It's like you guys think I'm not going to respond or something 😂 😈
LOFL OMG!!!!!! at least give the virgin some credit. He pours himself into these responses.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
Double it and in turn maybe double bp gains for any actions so you're gaining more at the same speed as before.
As much as I'd like the idea of removing the cap completely, I fear that farming would be extremely common and the game would quickly become boring due to such.
Yeah, it could be abused, though I do think they should raise the cap to at least 66666. Its a little more than double, which isn't too high.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2623067#Comment_2623067
Foolish cries, huh?
And who do you think you are to call our pleas "foolish"?
First of all, the Old Freddy you are thinking about isn't even "V1.0". That would be his on-release version, who was actually the fourth strongest killer in the game at the time.
Additionally, your comment is just plain wrong. There were several, and I mean several, threads proving that most people definitely want him back. The absolute majority of the community, I might add. Heck, look at the very poll you are commenting on.
I was here for the Old Freddy (or Freddy "V2.0", as you would call it), mained for him for months on end until his rework dropped, knew his strengths and weaknesses inside out. All of that lost because of the terrible decision to completely change him, without ever taking his players into consideration.
We want our killer back, and there is nothing foolish about that.
Good on you man. I love old Freddy, and if there are people that enjoyed his old self, that is OK.
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Three excellent options. He is so far to the weak side of the Killer spectrum that I'm surprised this had to be among their priorities. It could be exploited, but at least throw the mick a bone and give him a few minor buffs to counterbalance.
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I generally don't care for the coward's way out, but I believe they could implement some system for letting people bleed out automatically after being downed for AT LEAST an accumulative 3(should be 6) minutes. And then, if they don't have the will to live, let them end it.
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The DEVs......
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@Aurelle said:
In terms of gameplay, design, and aesthetic. (I'm still going to include Hawkins even though it's gone)
What's the best licensed map?
I'm not a huge fan of SILENT HILL, but that map is actually dark, bloody and disturbing. Its not my favorite map, but I wish there were more maps like this.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2609555#Comment_2609555
That would be a fun map. Someone logs on
"Hey this map looks cool!"
"Wait is that my house...?"
Lol yep. The locals could be like crows that yell at you when you get too close and alert the Killer. The neighborhoods in the inner city would be the scariest thing in DBD to date.
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@Purgatorian said:
The problem I have is if you buff survivors, you buff swfs and swfs don't need buffing.
Solo queue on the other hand does need an information buff such as basekit kindred but that goes back to the original point that bhvr would feel swfs also get these due to fairness, making them stronger.
Very well put.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595152#Comment_2595152
i take it you live in texas
No, Florida, but I've been to ATLANTA lofl It could be a DBD map lol
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I really like the thought of giving it a frightening OUTLAST vibe. Cool idea.
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Like my EX.
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You SURVIVOR mains are adorable.
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Next Killer, no, next Halloween after a few other KILLERS, HELL YEAH.
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@Impose said:
Its hag and its not even close. Bubba has to literally stay in the basement to have basement pressure. Hag can patrol while still having complete basement control with as little as 3 traps.
Very solid point.
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He's THE HIGH PRIEST OF HELL, he should be overly oppressive.
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I think it's a fair trade off. I only have to hit them 1 time which gives me a 50% adavantage compared to, what is it, 9%? As someone that doesn't want to leave a leg for Survivors to stand on, I want them all to bring it so they play cocky and don't heal lol
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Any place in TEXAS over that "city" lol.
LET'S GO HOUSTON!!!!!!
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Always a good time going against the OG CHAINSAW SAVAGE.
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The redhead is cute.
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@Jarol said:
I want a Freddy vs Jason in Dead by Daylight.
I want our 2 KILLER/8 SURVIVORS game mode to do FREDDY AND JASON and MICHAEL AND GHOSTFACE.
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......Because I can't get Grinder to open
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Only Trickster.
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@vacaman said:
I hope they nerf her again, this patch only nerfed her best addons, they should nerf her base kit aswell.
And if you run for 10 seconds in a straight line, the reverse-beartrap should be deactivated.
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Its SO easy to punk the Shape. He is my fav to play if I'm tired or not feeling competitive because he is very simple. However, I play very unconcerned against Myers. He is SO cool and deserves either a few quality of life improvements or just make Tier 3 always infinite. It would make him stronger, more like his film self and I dont mind versing Infinite tier 3 Myers. Worthless against those who pay attention early on, absolute menace by the late game. Like THE movie.
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It's definitely a lower percentage than it should be.
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@CormanClan said:
A nice gatekeeping, If you want to gate keep there is the golden bloody skins for those few older players back in the early days.
Exactly.
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Neither is balanced, nor do they need to be. When I'm facing Michael Myers, I want him to be overwhelming. Not balanced.
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Completely. I took a few months off and was surprised to see the new system. I didn't love the other one, but I was versing who I should be.
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Spread the fog!!!!!!
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@Mat_Sella said:
I love Conquerer, but I dont see any person that could ever use that skin in comparison to a Shugoki skin for The Oni.
Yeah, the shields would be difficult to work in.
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@Jarol said:
Oops crap!, I accidentally pressed the option to publish.
Well the other options can be Star-Lord, Trevor Philips, Indiana Jones, Rambo, among many.
Then STAR LORD.
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I would love a Highlander or Jormungandr.
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Its such a mess. Very inaccurate at placing you where you should go.
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Do-du-du-du, da, duda da-do!!!!!!
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Lol, comment on a video game sub-forum for a game you "don't have fun with." What a life lofl.
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The only reason I say NO is because I find it fun that Wraith has this wierd unique interaction with Survivors.
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It goes by the Killer's perspective and is completely due to connection. We do have to remember that as quick as we can percieve each others input, it is NOT instant.
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All good options. David is the most deserving.
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Very well produced poll man, keep it up.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2543876#Comment_2543876
It's a really common word where I'm from. I can confirm that Google is correct - it is pronounced my-ther!
Where are you from?
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It would add much needed suspense. Survivors shouldn't know exactly when they have to escape by. Good idea.
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Or werewolf, or headless horseman, or JAWS/KING KONG.
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I love the poll and this was fun, but #########? LOL Huntress is a normal human who grew up hunting with her mother. The twins are a physical anomaly that would probably never exist. I only bring this up because I planned on voting for her. Cool question though.
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Any mildly mature human who reads these forums knows which side is OVERWHELMINGLY more childish.
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@Hoodied said:
My humor has fallen from grace
Lol