wxnickxw
wxnickxw
About
- Username
- wxnickxw
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163622#Comment_2163622
Ok my guy. There's a difference between changing a perk that literally EVERYONE abused. And changing a BIG fundamental part of the game mechanics itself
Hahaha OK sure everybsingle survivor used ds and abused it. And every other nerf out there was also to address an abuse that every single survivor was using and abusing. Funny how every killer must be a Saint and every survivor the worst human to ever live in your mind. I'm guessing that's not actually the case itsnjust the argument you have to make to support your position... maybe don't make it next time if you don't believe it
-
@Power_Guy said:
What the people making, or agreeing with, these 'punish camping' threads fail to realize (or actively ignore) is that there's VALID REASONS TO CAMP.
Instead, they see 'Camping = bad' and 'This punishes what I hate' and stop there. That's all they care about. Some of the people here even said 'This makes the Killer stop camping, and that's all I want'.
Player agency? Nope!
Killer's tactics? Naw!
Killer's enjoyment? Hell no!
All they want is ALL CAMPING PUNISHED. It does not matter if you needed to camp to slow down generators. Or if Survivors are hiding nearby. Or if Survivors are going for an unsafe unhook.
All they want is for Killers to be forced away from the hook so they can get easy saves. They don't want to deal with knowing when to unhook or when to do gens. They want every unhook to succeed.
And to do that, they need draconian, over-the-top punishments on Killers who dare to get in the way.
Yup want it removed. But tobanswer you question about player agency I'm curious did you have the same response to the ds nerf?
Was thay also bad because it removed player agency? Survivor tactics? Survivor enjoyment? So how I think you don't take issue with that almost as though your argument is bs and you really just want to keep camping cause it's your crutch. But hey correct me if I'm wrong, we're you or were you not opposed to all previous Survivor nerfs including ds?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163574#Comment_2163574
No, I said it isn't anyone's place but the Killer to decide what they are going to do. If they Camp for a reason, that is their choice. If they Camp to be a jerk, that is likewise their choice. What I'm saying is that even when Perks and Add-on(s) are changed, Players still have the CHOICE to take them or not. Artificial mechanics inserted into the game take away Player agency. The are not the same thing.
No I think you stated quite clearly that without those selected options the killers were nothing more than Bots. Did you want to change your point on that then? Admit that losing one of those options would not reduce killer to Bots. If that wasn't what you intended by your post my apologies, here is your chance to clarify...
So, do you think losing one of those options would reduce killers to little more than Bots or not?
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163551#Comment_2163551
.......Did you REALLY just tell me they can differentiate between camping that is needed...And people who are doing it to be dicks....By comparing it to DS....? Seriously my guy. Please think your arguments through. DS was a simple fix "if you yourself do anything yourself to progress the game. It's deactivated"
Now go ahead and tell me how they can differentiate between camping situations. That doesn't involve "just being in chase" And how they can tell when the killer feels it's neccesary
No I didn't say they can differentiate. I said they can punish everyone for the actions of some of the group. Like some survivors abused ds so they changed it. Some people can drive so the made everyone follow speed limits and some killers do nothing but camp all day so they can address that to.
It was in reference to your point that boiled down to I don't abuse camping so don't take it away from me
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163540#Comment_2163540
Why do you people post with absolutely no understanding of the game? Did you not learn the lesson that it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt? Killers (some anyway) are faster because there are FOUR Survivors. The game expects you to get hit, downed, and put on that hook. You are expected to have to work as a team to overcome the Killer's brute force.
Hey look at that you posted exactly as I said you would about how survovs are supposed to get caught etc.
but if that was the case then Bubba was intended to not just sit infornt of the hook waiting for thr game to end. And I guess you and other killers can't just use the well just don't get caught argument to justify camping as survivors are supposed to get caught during a match. Multiple times it seems.
Man that whole not removing all doubt by speaking up must be hard on you i take it?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163495#Comment_2163495
There is a difference between buffing, debuffing, and reworking Add-on(s) and Perks. You still have Player Agency, i.e. a CHOICE, to choose said things or leave them off. Artificial mechanics which strictly regulate how Players can function in the game remove Player Agency entirely. These are apples an oranges. If you remove agency, you lose Players; it is as simple as that. Nobody wants to be reduced to playing a glorified BOT. Without the option to choose to Camp, Tunnel, Slug, Herd, and/or Mori, Killers are nothing more than chase engines who have to run around like the four Ghosts in Pac Man. Choice, or at least an illusion of it, has to exist to keep the interest of any Player in any game. What you fail to understand is that the DEV tested all sorts of things over the years and came to the same conclusion over and over again. Not only will Survivors immediately abuse any artificial constraint placed on Killers, but Players simply opt out of playing Killer when they realize they have little in the way of choices to make. When it comes to "chase" games there are far better ones than DbD. What makes this game unique is PLAYER AGENCY and the unpredictable (and sometimes unfair) nature of it.
So let me lay it out for you again:
- There are no Bots.
- Since both roles are required for the game to work DbD must avoid loss of either role.
- Since you need at least one Killer to four Survivors, there is a smaller margin of error on losing Killers.
So unless you find an ENTIRELY NEW WAY to rebuild DbD from the ground up to provide Killers new, alternate choices besides running around like mindless Bots in chases with zero tactics to apply, these biased (dare I say tunnel-vision) constraints are DOA. Players who take on the role of Killers expect AND DESERVE exactly the same agency as those playing Survivor.
Just to be clear without camping slugging tunneling herding and moris the killers are Bots, man it sure is a good thing that they didn't miss one, could you imagine what would have happened if they didn't have mori in the game then no one would play killer right. Wait does that mean every match where the killer doesn't offer a mori he's suffering through being a bot? Do you ever play without a mori offering?
Man thay would be terrible, it's either that or you entire argument was bs and you just Wana camp because it's a crutch you rely on.
Unless again maybe your going to say we'll it's OK to loose one of those things and still play....but then camping was one of those things....so I guess your ok with removing camping as an option as long as the others are left in right? Or was your entire argument something you don't actually believe in and just hoping to keep camping in cause you rely on it so much?
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162811#Comment_2162811
I hope you know rank means nothing. Who cares about a depip ? Aside from that. I'll take my 4k and blood points over a meaningless rank any day..More to the point..Again there is NO WAY to differentiate between the type of camping good killers do. And the type some ######### do for the lulz..You can't punish good killers and wreck important parts in matchs. Just to punish a few dick bags.
You can and the devs have. Look at ds it was nerfed becuase some people were abusing it so everyone got it nerfed there's nothing wrong with that.
Sort of like speed limits yes you could safely drive faster than the speed limit but there's a few morons out there that ruin it for everyone.
-
@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162540#Comment_2162540
"It's terribly boring for survivors"
Oh for the love of the entity...
Failure state isn't supposed to be fun. Your Failure state is supposed to put you in a situation you want to avoid. It's also there to use YOU as bait against your team. You increase the timer for any reason, you remove that pressure..... on a class that already is already become so stressful to play that your q's have gotten longer because people don't want to play killer anymore.
All because a bunch of people are too damn lazy to do the right thing and counter that pressure by popping gens!
DO
THE
FRACKING
GENERATORS
I don't care if you are solo play, I don't care that your teammates are crap. DO THE GENERATORS
If you can't handle bad teammates, switch to killer like I have or move on with your life....
FFS, why do people feel the need to impose something into a game that is not needed....
Just to be clear what are the camped survivors supposed to do while the others are doing gens.......nothing, oh how fun.
Tell you what though if your ok with saying just avoid failures then let's have the killers speeds reduced to match survivors or survivors increased to match match killers.
if you did that I'm ok with saying then just don't get caught becuase when two equally skilled players are playing against each other the survivor woukd have an actual chance to avoid the failure state.
Because as the game is currently designed the killer will win the chase in if they are both similarly skilled because the killer is faster. Funny I doubt you'd be ok with that probably some excuse about how it was intended that killers would catch survivors, then hook them, then go after another survivor, right?
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162540#Comment_2162540
Ok...But generators need slowed TREMENDOUSLY. If people don't want camping...And you know what...? That just means the people that camp it to be malicious will just have MORE time to make you hang there. Nothing suggested is a solution
Sure if you want other nerfs/buffs I don't see a problem with that. I'm not saying fix camping and then never change anything 3lse ever again. After all removing camping is a crutch for many killers your likely going to have to buff them after in one way or another, maybe move faster or do more gen damage or have gens take x seconds more whatever works for me
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2162500#Comment_2162500
But we didn't....? Nothing suggested is a good "fix" and can't be done. Without completely wrecking pivotal points in a match
Oh sorry my bad, I thought the general view was it would stop camping buy that you didn't want camping ti stop. If you think the stopped timer except in chase would result in unintentional consequences (ie anythijt but stopping the killer from camping bdcuase that is the intended consequence) please let me know what it is
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2161231#Comment_2161231
It would stop camping, yes. But there's to many times in matchs where sometimes it's the difference between 3-4 getting out. Or 3-4 getting sacrificed. The problem with this idea is there's no possible way for the game/coding for it to be able to tell when it's neccesary to camp or not. Something that important can't be changed just to punish ######### who do it for the LULZ
Its bit about punishing them for their intent behind it, it's about removing it becusse it's terribly boring as the survivors. Similar to keys the survivors intent may be to escape or to be toxic when using them but it doesn't matter becuase it's annoying as all hell for the killer.
-
Atleast we have reached a consensus on how to fix camping, as for if they should fix camping I know most killer mains rely on it so heavily they won't want it fixed. Like so many survivor mains who want keys to stay as is, both don't want it to change not becuae it will make the game better but because it's easier for them as is.
-
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2159820#Comment_2159820
That would be absolutely horrible I'm sorry. Sometimes camping is neccesary. "No hook progression" would wreck important turning points in a match
So your saying camping shouldn't be fixed, which is fine, but to be clear you think my proposal would stop camping effeivley without possible abuses right?
-
Sorry so just to be clear your saying the abuse would be.....the killer is forced to stop camping even though he wants to keep camping right?
-
@catbeans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2159840#Comment_2159840
Already tried that
There's nothing you can do. We tried resetting, hard resetting, changing who invites, resetting routers and modems, switching to another game then co.ing back. Playing a match separately. Playing as a killer separately. Nothing works
Only solution is to come back later usually the next day although once it wouldn't let one of us join and the next day the other so it took two days of waiting
-
Nope some days you just can't play when we run into this we usually just go play something else and come back another day
-
@Power_Guy said:
Complaining about camping/slugging/tunneling is basically just saying 'I'm angry I lost, and I'm going to shift the blame off of myself, because I expect Killers to play in a way I deem acceptable. Please, devs, add my rules to the game so I can have easier matches.'
It's funny that people claim killers can't:
- Slug
- Camp
- Tunnel
- Use 'crutch' perks
- Use 'crutch' Killers
What CAN Killers do? According to allot of people here; anything except win. Winning is unfair. Playing optimally is unfair (except for Survivors; Survivors get 4 meta perks, genrush, and play in SWF groups with voice comms).
But Killers can't play optimally, or it needs changing. Survivors can genrush (IE: Play their objective fast), but killers can't camp (IE: Ensure a kill, and thus slow down the Survivor's momentum). If they do this; The Killer should actively lose BP! Or be removed from the hook zone! Or be unable to grab Survivors!
ANYTHING to give Survivors an EZ game! Anything where they lose is cheap! Stop being cheap and let Survivors win! Rofl.
I don't know about evrry other survivor main but my complaint about camping is that it's incredibly boring to be camped and it's currently a good strategy which is why killers do it resulting in boring matches. For the survivor on the hook it's the worst but it's not much fun to play as the other survivors either it's like playing against an afk killer for a couple minutes
-
@Pulsar said:
What do you propose?
hiw about hook time doesn't go down unless the killer is away from the hook or in a chase?
Before anyone posts its gonna get abused please outline what the abuse is becuase apart from one killer who pointed out survivors could force a chase near the hook (hence the chase exception) most just say its abuse becuase the killer has to leave the hook when they would rather stay which isn't abuse its the intended result
-
@latinfla4 said:
I am tired of getting red ranks as a green rank killer so any suggestions...Face camping bubba? Trickster spamming knives? Static blasting doc?
I don't understand how this would help, I mean with current matchmaking can you still run into reds as rand 20?
-
@Ethelwulf said:
I sure don't see survivors claiming it's also toxic for them to just crawl away into a corner of the map when they already lost so the killer can't find them and has to wait the full 4 minutes too and is denied of the hook points he worked for.
Guess being petty and spiteful towards a killer is ok but god forbid a survivor feels uncomfortable.
I mean if you left them to chase someone else shouldn't they hide so their teammate can save them?
After you caught there teammate I guess there's no point in continuing to hide but there may be a solution hi about a mechanic that after being down for long enough survivors stand back up? That way you can find them trying to open the gates?
-
Tunneling can be annoying, although it is kinda funny when the survivor being tunneled runs through a palet bt a waiting survivor and the killer keeps chasing right into the stun.
I only play survivor with a friend or two so we can prevent the tunneling, although I feel for solo players not much can be done there.
Camping on the otherhand can't really do anything about the camped survivor jsit basically had to sit a match out. But I know many killers rely on it so much they will complain about any proposed change that may stop there camping
-
@jokere98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155946#Comment_2155946
seems like someone forget about mori nerf... yet keys are still fine.
What's next? after nerfing a camping, and again forgetting about keys, you'll be like "well, survivors hate tunneling, killers hate keys. So, nerf tunneling and nerf keys"
Seems like your forgetting about the nerf to ds or.......every nerf and buff in this game up to this point that had favored killers and or survivors.... oh no what that's completely irrelevant to this conversation.
I mean the whole point was to address two issues that are currently in the game. The idea was to have killer mains and survivor main collectively agree to a change that benefits them and another change that doesn't benefit them so that everyone would be requesting the same set of changes in the hopes that the devs may listen to a request being made by a large portion of the community.
As opposed to half the community asking keys to be changes and the other half saying not too which is easily ignorable. And half the community saying fix camping and half saying not to which again is easily ignorable.
But I figure that at the end of the day there are certain killers who rely so heavily on camping that no matter what they want it in the game, given the opportunity to fix keys or buffing mories or maybe even breakout glitches. And you happen to be one of those killers, hence your argument of:
The killers got a nerf before so don't do anything else unless there's a nerf to survivors as though there's a one to one trade off everytime. And then even if there was a survivor nerf next I'm sure the next argument you'd make is well yah there was a survivor nerf but it wasn't as hard as the last killer nerf so.....still don't address camping.
Maybe you Wana try well camping is in the game so its legit so don't change it? It's an equally bad argument
-
@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156901#Comment_2156901
Tried hook slow down conditions on the PTB TWICE and both times it got abused so badly by survivors that it never left said PTBs and were never tried again.
Having an ultimately survivor dictated mechanic for how fast hooks goes will always be abused.
I've had a couple of killer mains tell me that and each time I've asked them to explain they told me essentially it was unfair becuase the killers had to leave the hook to progress the game(which sounds like it was working as intended) except one killer main who said the problem was survivors would force a chase around the hook, hence the in chase exception.
But in case there's another actual abuse out there, besides the killer can't stay near the hook and camp, please tell me what it is
-
Great to hear.
are you in favor of changing the game so that hook time doesn't progress when the killer hangs around the hook while he isn't in a chase? To stop other camping killers?
-
You know there is a thread pinned for perk ideas right?
-
@meowzilla69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/246764/hook-grabs-should-be-removed
If you go for an unsafe rescue, I’m going for the grab, not my fault when you make a bad play.
Wouldn't have a problem with this if so many killers didn't just camp the first guy to death. What a fun game for thay guy
-
@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156591#Comment_2156591
Did I misread? Wasn't there something about the hook timer not ticking down? Given the amount of that thing I see, i may of just gotten you confused with somebody else.
No it doesn't stop if the killer is away from the hook it counts down normally as long as 5he killer isn't camping
-
@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156257#Comment_2156257
Let me ask you this....
When you are on a gen and you see a teammate hooked, do you not feel pressure abandon that generator and rescue them as you know their life is ticking away? Would you feel the same amount of pressure if they had all the time in the world to die?
This is essentially what happened when the devs experimented with removing the decay on the hook whenever the killer stayed near. Survivors would pressure the killer into staying near the hook giving that last teammate all the time in the world to get things done on gens.
Hooks are supposed to pressure survivors out of hiding and off gens and that pressure gets removed when the death timer gets tampered with in any way. it's part of the core dynamic of the game - survivors pressure killers to find them by doing the gens, killers pressure them away and out of hiding by hooking people. This is part of the reason you can solo a gen considerably faster than it takes for somebody to work through both stages of the hook and there are more survivors.
All your proposal does is slow the game down the game which frankly we don't need.
Why does the pressure go away? Remember if the killer isn't standing next to the hook the hook timer continues as normal.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156232#Comment_2156232
Longer gen times wouldn't solve the issue. Because it's just boring.
But going for other objectives, like gas cans, could spice it up.
Yah I agree I was saying I like moving around for other objectives like you said rather than just sitting on a gen doing g checks
-
@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156230#Comment_2156230
Sometimes camping is necessary. If survivors swarm the hook, what reason does the killer have to leave the hook?
It sounds like you would not be happy with anything other than a free trade which means survivors can play dumb and still get unhooks.
Just checking could you walk me through how this scenario is different with or without the proposed change. Ie if the survivors swarm under current rules vs under the proposed changes
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156219#Comment_2156219
Survivors need additional objectives like finding gasoline and refilling the gens. Or fixing cables.
That would be kinda neat, make it more interesting than just sort of sitting there on the gen
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156198#Comment_2156198
I'm saying it's a bad mechanic because it does one of two things:
- Gives Survivors infinite time to do gens while forcing the Killer to camp.
- Forces the Killer to walk away so Survivors get a free unhook.
The reason you can't see it as being abused is because you can't look past 'Camping bad!'. If I'm at the hook, and a Survivor's near the hook; Why should I be punished with a slow/stopped Struggle Meter for my meat?
But if the Survivors are VISIBLY NEARBY BUT OUTSIDE THE CHASE, that's exactly what happens; I know the Survivors are there, but I'm not in a chase. Now I, as the Killer, have to walk away from the hook, because the hooked Survivor will never (or more slowly) die.
If I commit to one chase, another Survivor unhooks. And that should be MY CHOICE as the Killer. Not forced on me buy a BS mechanic forcing me to leave because I can't win otherwise.
If you can't see that, then you have no objectivity. All you see is 'camping = bad' and think any wild idea WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN TRIED AND ABUSED should be added back in, because you don't like camping.
I'm done. I've told you, multiple times, how it was abused, because IT WAS ABUSED, and you sit there and go 'I don't see how it can be abused!'. IT ALREADY WAS. What you 'don't see' does not matter.
All you see is a massive middle finger to Killers that you like because it removes a mechanic you, personally, don't like. That's not balance. That's bias.
Peace.
I'm trying not to ignore your posts but I keep seeing you write the abuse is that 5he killer can't stay and camp the hook for the win.
I'm telling you flat out that the goal is to stop camping.
Now one abuse would be if the survivors force a chase around the hook this was why the timer goes down when the killer is in a chase. This was an example of an abuse becuase it was was publishing a killer who wasn't camping(he is chasing in this example)
So of you can list an abuse (other than the killer wont be able to camp) then please let me know. If you don't like this proposal becuase it will stop killers from camping then you may as well say the perk works exactly as intended but that you don't want it becuas you like to camp. Which is fine there are plenty of survivors out there who love using keys and make the same excuses you do about camping. Killers can play around it, it's hard enough on survivors, survivors should do everything to achieve there objective etc etc etc.
So to sum up BESIDES preventing camping, does it do anything else that the survivors can exploit/abuse
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156114#Comment_2156114
Yes but with your punishment, if the Survivors 'hang nearby', then the Killer is sitting on a hook, giving the 3rd Survivor infinite time to do generators (remember; the Struggle Meter is slowed or stopped if the Killer is nearby & not in a chase. That's the idea that was offered.).
So, at that point, it does not matter if 2 Survivors are standing around; they still eventually win, or the Killer has to give up a free unhook.
And again; no mechanic should force the killer to play badly just because Survivors don't like a playstyle that the Devs already said was valid.
So no, camping should not be punishable just because it makes a handful of people salty. And doubly no to it being punished in such a blatantly abuseable way. Why is it blatantly abuseable? Because it already was abused.
OK so just to be clear the abuse your talking about is that the killer will not win while camping?
If I'm missing something Is there anything I apologize so just to make sure is there anythung the survivors can do that would be worse for the killer than say doing nothing in a corner. Becuase if not then it's not a matter of abuse it's a matter of the killer will simply not be able to camp anymore. Which again is the entire point.
If your point is that this is unfair becuade it will stop camping than it sounds to me like the proposal works exactly as intended with no way to abuse it. But if there is a way I would like to know to tweak the rules proposed.
And again don't bother saying camping is legitimate play or stopping it is bad becuase survivors shouldn't complain. 1 becuase no one says camping is not legal/legit it is permitted and definitely a good way to win. 2. Becuase the whole point is to propose a change just like with the keys. Or do you think the keys are working great and shouldn't be changed?
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156002#Comment_2156002
Ok. I will try to describe how it worked.
1 Survivor Worked on generators (Gen Survivor)
Bait Survivors #1 & #2 (BSs) would stand 50+ meters out, clearly visible to the hook.
There would be no chase, so the Struggle Meter was slowed.
If the Killer moved towards BS1, BS1 would run away, thereby increasing the length of time before the game would say 'This is a chase'. And BS2 would move towards the hook.
Flip it if he went after BS2.
This meant the Killer had to commit to a chase to make the chase music happen. At that point, he would be too far away from the hook to stop an unhooking.
If he did not commit, the chase never started, and the Struggle Meter stayed slowed.
This meant, he would either camp for the kill (which took 50% longer than it does now, due to that horrible mechanic) or be forced to walk away & allow a free unhook, because BS 1 and BS 2 would ALWAYS be just outside his range, while GS (Gen Survivor) worked on Gens.
Now do you understand how it was abused, twice?
I'm not sure on one thing though.
so I'd like to compare this to the example if the two survivors didn't just hang out in view of the killer and say stuck in a corner or on a gen or something.
I think you'll agree there is no abuse in this case.
Now to compare ti your exampleIn your example the 2 try and bait away the killer the killer,
Is the result not the same for the killer? He's hanging around and nothings happening. The only difference is in your example he atleast has the option to go chase another survivor without looking for them. Arguably this puts him in a better passion than if the survivors never show up and he just stays there by the hook. Especially if the two bait survivors hung around a gen to work somewhere.
So to be clear I'm looking for an explanation as to either how my example is an abuse, or how your example is not worse for the killer than mine.
Oh I just thought you may be referring to the killer being able to stay by the hooked survivor to prevent his escape, but he can do the same in your example by ignoring the survivors I mean if they sit 30 feet from him doing nothing that's better for him than if the are anywhere else doing a gen like my example
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155946#Comment_2155946
The problem is that you can't punish 'camping' without actually implementing something that Survivors can abuse.
This is not a hypothetical; it was tried. Survivors abused it. The Killer was forked to either stay near the hook (thus giving free time for 1 Survivor to do gens, since the Struggle Meter was slowed down), or forced to give away an unhook.
The Killer should NEVER be forced to give away an unhook. No more than Survivors should be forced away from generators for doing them 'too fast'. Their objective is to kill you. And you don't get to decide how.
I don't see how I can be any clearer; this whole 'punish' idea was tried. It happened. This is not a thought experiment. SURVIVORS ABUSED IT. And now you want it back because...you think Killers should give away free unhooks. That's not biased at all.
OK so just to be clear you don't want to change keys becuase Survivors whoild never be forced to give up on a chance to escape right?
As for survivor abuse you mentioned I would like to hear how it worked, provided the abuse doesn't just involve the killer being forced to stop camping the hook becuase if thats the stated goal, so if you could explain how the survivors could abuse the timer stop bearing in mind if the are leading the killer to the hook in a chase the timer will start up agaim
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155916#Comment_2155916
So you just admitted that you want to remove camping as a strategy. Why? Because bad survivors don't like it? You just said it can be valid, then also state you want to remove it. Because...You don't approve? It's not your place to decide how the other side wins.
That would be like Killers wanting a punishment for 'gen rushing'; all it is is one side or the other whining about the opposite side doing their objective in a way they don't like.
That's all these threads ever are, be it 'camping' or 'gen rushing', it's just people wanting to remove play styles they, personally, don't like. They use flimsy excuses like 'anti-fun' (losing is never as fun as winning), and try to shame people with phrases like 'noob' and 'bad players use/do that!'.
How about you worry about doing generators, and I'll worry about how I hook people? Because it's pretty clear that either side just wants to shut down ways the other side wins.
You seem surprised that I'm talking about getting rid of camping considering hiw up front I was about it. This whole thing was about addressing two things players hate. Survivors hate campers and killers hate the keys. It's perfectly valid to abuse camping its in the game. It's perfectly valid to abuse keys there in the game.
The whole point was to remove both these things because they are terribly unfun to play against. I won't speak for killer mains but the consus seems to be key abuse KS aweful and should be addressed. Are you saying it shouldn't be addressed because it's already in the game?
-
@Power_Guy said:
Gen rushing is like 'tunneling' and 'camping'; salty buzzwords bad players invented to blame the other side for 'playing unfairly'.
Right and were working on a decent definition of it. Most have a fair consistent def of camping/tunneling ie chasing one survivor to the exclusion of all others. Don't really have thay with gen rushing
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155894#Comment_2155894
Except sometimes camping is valid. Why should the Killer have to leave when 2 people are standing right there? Why should the Killer be punished for 2 people loitering nearby, waiting for your free unhook?
Your idea rests on the idea that ALL hook camping is invalid and unfair. If I have 2 Survivors twerking 50 meters away form the hook, I should not be punished for standing there. THEY are not doing gens. THEY are keeping the Killer near the hooked player.
Why should they get a free unhook? Just because low skill Survivors have this idea that unhooks should be free? That Killers should be punished for not following a made-up rule against 'camping'? No.
Hence why this very same idea was scrapped after being abused. TWICE. Because it was abused and punished legitimate camping, and forced free unhooks.
Camping is always a good strategy to win. I'm not saying it isn't. The point is to make it so that it isn't a good stratrgybso that killers STOP CAMPING.
If your looking for a method to not stop camping your in the wrong place. That's the compromise part. The killers lose easy camping wins the survivors the easy key wins
-
@BSVben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155890#Comment_2155890
Unless the hook is in the middle of a massive deadzone, then there will be walls etc... which survivors can hide behind. That would allow them to be close enough to the hooked survivor to disable the timer, but as they aren't in the killers line of sight, then they wouldn't trigger a chase.
I'm not seeing how the survivor being there impacts things. The hook timer stops if the nearest survivor is next to the hook or across the map ot makes no difference. If the killer is there the progress stops period unless in a chase. So what difference does it make if there arenwalls or not.? If the survivor holes up behind a wall and the killer ignores them and stays near the hook the timer stays stored. If the killer chases them and they lead the killer away from the hook the timer starts. If the killer chases and the survivor Loops next to the hook the timer all starts. So what's the exploit the survivors can do?
Other than force the killer to leave which is the whole pount
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155882#Comment_2155882
They stay far enough away that, for a chase to start, the Killer will be too far away from the hook to stop a save from happening.
Basically, if the Killer commits; he gives up the hook.
If he does NOT commit, the chase never starts, and thus the struggle meter is slowed (or stopped, as per the suggestion here).
That has been abused, twice, on the PTB. It's not coming back.
The whole point is to make the killer leave and not camp you realize right? If the killer insists on staying near the hook the survivors don't even have to taunt the killer to lure him away because the hook timer will not progress if he's camping.
I mean your saying the game wouldn't progress because the killer is hanging around the hook and wants to camp. Then he should leave the hook and stop camping. We're you expecting this to somehow alownhim to keep camping?
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154341#Comment_2154341
They literally did exactly this.
Survivors used it to hold the game hostage by goading the killer around the hook indefinitely, so the hooked survivor was never sacrificed.
"But I said not in a chase."
Yes I know, and you don't need to be in a chase to get the killers attention and get them close to the hook.
Cab you explain this to me I've never played as a killer where I'm chasing someone and it doesn't trigger a chase? Especially if the survivor is running around in a small area around (ie near the hook)
-
@SammiieK1991 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152806#Comment_2152806
Just to wording context. I'm a bit thick when it comes to big words.
Which one are you having trouble with I'll explain it to you, no worries if English isn't your first language I'm happy to help you out
-
@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155624#Comment_2155624
#1 was tried, albeit with slowdown.
Survivors stood 30 meters away, preventing chases, but keeping the Killer at the hook.
The Killer either had to keep camping forever, or give up the hooked Survivor.
So no; punishments don't work.
I'm sorry I don't follow how do the survivors prevent a chase? If the killer chases them either they run and are chased or get hit and go down I suppose?
-
I have an interesting proposal. Now the idea would be that we would need to all agree to compromise.
Many survivor mains myself included want to address camping. Many killer mains want to address keys.
Here's my proposal, first we agree on a solution to both issues.
Then we constantly post about it. (Not spamong the forums but a thread that's constantly being bumped and maybe including a link to it in all other posts)
Thirdnand most important though is we have to agree to accept both solutions. If one of us starts arguing against one solution then someone else will argue against the other and it will devolve into what it already is instead of a united front the devs may actually listen too.
Here's my proposed fix for both issues but it will need to be tweaked I'm sure.
1 camping. The hook timer does not progress if the killer remains withing x feet of the hook unless the killer is in a chase.
2. Keys rather than lower spawn rates in chests (because this wouldn't Address bringing them in with you) I see other posts about treating opening the hatch the same as cleaning a totem with the time required being effected by perks as cleansing possibly as opening the gate.
Thoughts, both on the overall idea and on the two solutions? Remember we have to be prepared to compromise guys
-
I have an interesting proposal. Now the idea would be that we would need to all agree to compromise.
Many survivor mains myself included want to address camping. Many killer mains want to address keys.
Here's my proposal, first we agree on a solution to both issues.
Then we constantly post about it. (Not spamong the forums but a thread that's constantly being bumped and maybe including a link to it in all other posts)
Thirdnand most important though is we have to agree to accept both solutions. If one of us starts arguing against one solution then someone else will argue against the other and it will devolve into what it already is instead of a united front the devs may actually listen too.
Here's my proposed fix for both issues but it will need to be tweaked I'm sure.
1 camping. The hook timer does not progress if the killer remains withing x feet of the hook unless the killer is in a chase.
2. Keys rather than lower spawn rates in chests (because this wouldn't Address bringing them in with you) I see other posts about treating opening the hatch the same as cleaning a totem with the time required being effected by perks as cleansing possibly as opening the gate.
Thoughts, both on the overall idea and on the two solutions? Remember we have to be prepared to compromise guys
-
@BSVben said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154936#Comment_2154936
And what happens if the survivors are staying near the hook? The hooked survivor wouldn't die.
If the survivors are near the hook and the killer is chasing them then the hook timer will go down.
If the other three survivors are working with the killer the hooked survivor would always have the option to stop struggling if they want ti die
-
@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154918#Comment_2154918
It prevents the game from ever ending if the killer intentionally camps.
....but the other survivors would finish gens
-
@ShamelessPigMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154341#Comment_2154341
Well, slowing it down to a snail's pace, maybe. Stopping it entirely might open the door for holding the game hostage.
How woukd it be held hostage like that?
-
Sorta sounds like the twins could have been made to do this originally