wxnickxw
wxnickxw
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192727#Comment_2192727
You know perfectly well nobody's suggesting that the camped survivor work on gens.
Then maybe they should stop saying just work on gens when your being camped
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@konochivu said:
Survivors are the ones who must punish killer's mistakes. Killer is tunneling? - don't unhook too early, trade hooks, take agro. Killer is camping - work on generators. There's nothing more, nothing less. Developers already fixed Freddy and wraith camping powers.
Could you please tell me how to work on a gen when your being camped I keep trying to becuase people on here keep telling me to do that. Is there a button combo in not aware of becuase I can never seem to work on gens when in on the hook being camped
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@Nomporu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192453#Comment_2192453
I mean, I feel like the site having a block option would help.
The fact that you are telling me to not post is horrible.
Because I don't want to interact with one person, but still want to show me agreeance with people and state my opinions, I should just never post?
Does it matter if he tells you not to post?
he gets a bit toxic when he's positing just ignore that parts of his post and focus only on the substance of what he says.
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@Noz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192375#Comment_2192375
I agree. I am just sick of the argument that killers are supposed to be nice, while survivors can behave however they like.
Yah it gets a little messy because in either case the survivors are saying they want camping addressed, some are just not thinking it through when they say killers should just fix it, when they should be saying the devs need to fix it. It's not the killers fault the devs make it so good to camp just like it wasn't the survivors fault they could use ds offensively it was the devs fault. The problem are the survivors who are angry that the devs fixed ds fand the killers who get angry at the mention of fixing camping
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@Noz said:
"Killers are mean and should respect the other peoples fun by not tunneling/camping."
Meanwhile I have yet to see a survivor be like: Lets not finish this gen, the killer is having a bad game. It would not be very fun for him, if we finish this now.
Of course not, that is not the objective of the survivor. Ignoring the fact that survivors doing their objective is not fun for the killer. But who cares about that.
I think most are asking the devs to change the game so that camping wasn't sure a good strategy so that killers would stop using it, I mean you want killers to try their best so would you be OK if they changed the game so that the best move wasn't camping? Sounds like a win win unless you really just like to camp
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@TGB said:
I'm the Killer.
Everything I do seems to be wrong, so what would you like me to do?
Make sure all 4 Survivors are injured before I can start downing anyone?
Make sure everyone's hook counts get evenly spread?
Make sure I don't chase for more than 10 seconds?
Make sure to run away in a straight 200 meter line after hooking someone?
Make sure to spend my time looking for the hatch while you guys do the gens, that way by the time you're ready, I'll be able to point it out to everyone and we can all escape in time for tea & crumpets on the bayside?
Really. Tell me what would make you happy & satisfied with your gaming experience. I'm the Killer; I'm here for you.
Help me...
Help you.
I'd say don't camp. Not when your winning or loosing or are the start of the match. Just don't do it.
Also don't cheat I suppose but I take it you knew that one already
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@Progamer888 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189744#Comment_2189744
Then i don't have anything to say, i didn't understand the colloquialism thank for the explanation.
No worries 👍 it might be a North American saying, are you by change European?
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@NightmareKiller said:
I know millions of survivors are sore losers and stuff, but do they really?
Had a lot of matches in which I kill a survivor and at the end of the game they cope with "S-so what if I died? I stunned you 4 times! HA!".
Is that seriously a victory for survivors? Running from a killer for a few seconds, getting a few pallet stuns, etc is that enough to make survivors pretend they didn't just lose the whole match and got humilliated?
Because I never seen a single killer who had all 4 survivors escape and he coped with "Oh w-well but at least everyone was on death hook!" or "A-at least I kicked 3 gens!".
I dunno if he looped you a bunch and stunned you a couple times sounds like he did his job his team just didn't help out very much while he was in a chase.
Its sort if like in baseball if you hit a home run each time you get to bat but you loose by 10 points you can say yah I did pretty good that game
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189819#Comment_2189819
I cant fuel my crippling bloodpoint addiction that way and its quite bold of you to assume I have friends :'(
Hahah well no but training shouldn't give you points anyway. As for friends send out invites to players you enjoyed playing with you'll make friends
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189692#Comment_2189692
That would be more difficult but that could work as well.
Well you could do a survivor perk that gives then the strength to avoid hook decrease when in the killers presence if he's not chasing someone or a perk that charges up when the killer is around nit in a chase that gives you the ability to regain a lost hook state, or escape from the hook and stub the killer. Just off the top of my head I think those could all work
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Isn't that what custom matches are?
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No tbagging serves no purpose but to be a dick camping let's the killer win so it's not the same.
The key difference is you can only blame players for tbagging, camping on the other hand is something the devs need to address becuasr ad long as it remains an effective strategy it's not toxic to use it. Still annoying as hell to play against but different categories there.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189761#Comment_2189761
Sure, yeah. We don't want to lose our crutch.
It has nothing to do with player agency, and our ability to confirm kills.
It's in no way you demanding Survivors be given an easily abuseable crutch instead. 🙄
Keep reading that Survivor Rulebook you seem to think 'good Killers' follow like a bible. Keep whining about how 'unfun' Killers camping you are, instead of learning how to git gud.
Are you saying anything that nerfs or buffs a playstyle or tactic is wrong becuase impacting player agency is bad, or are you saying thay only applies when discussing killer playstyle or tactics being effected?
I ask becuase if you don't player agency as all important for both sides you don't really care about player agency and you are being disingenuous
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I'm going to guess if two disconnected at the same time overnsomething that didn't effect them, that it's a connection issue made them drop
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189709#Comment_2189709
Be prepared for this Survivor main to ignore every single fact thrown at them to claim 'Killer mains just want their easy strat'.
You've been told your wrong by multiple people over multiple threads. Give it a rest.
Thats why I was warning him, but I guess I forgot about the one or two that just come to post asking that no one don't talk about fixing camping (because they don't want to loose their crutch)
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@Progamer888 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189705#Comment_2189705
I don't think i fully understood what you said-
Sorry hit the nail on the head is a colloquialism that means got it right.
I believe mount is right in saying the guy didn't want the perk for protection from tunneling but to use it against the killer. I think this can be called using ds offensively (ie against the killer) rather than defensivly (as intended by devs) as a shorthand unless you guys can think of a better phrase
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@Artemisha said:
My commentary wasn´t much elaborated, I know. But I said that camping, usually accompanied of tunneling, shouldn´t be allowed in early game.
Of course killers should camp / patrol on late game. I´m talking aboiut early game.
If killer camps with no survivors on the zone, hook progression don´t advance. And they had to seek for another one, patrol, whatever....
It´s so disgusting when facecamp and tunneling start at beggining of the game. This is not how killer should be played. Not fun for anyone (for survivors, at least).
Yah this woukd solve the issue of camping but needs to be tweaked so that it doesn't stop when the killers in a chase to prevent survivors from looping the killer around the hook. be prepared for a bunch of killer mains to come say that's an abuse thought becuase removing camping as an effective strategy is abusive to killers.
Possibly also somethjng about how easy it is to address camping by either playing against terrible killers you can loop infinitely, or just do gens(never had it explained how to do gens when on the hook but it keeps popping up)
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@Moundshroud said:
I'm going to chime in on this, but only briefly. It appears the original poster's PRIMARY use for the Perk was to do objectives or make rescues in the Killer's face. If removing it is now his/her first reaction to the change, then Tunneling was never really the concern. To a large degree, we have heard all of this before, and I'm sure we will hear it again. Tunneling was always the EXCUSE certain Players used as an argument against changing DS and their complaint after DS was changed, but is CLEAR now that Tunneling was always a red herring. This confirms the change to the Perk was the right thing to do. If you want DS to discourage (note I said discourage not stop) the Killer from going right for the same person, take the Perk. You should still WANT your teammates to perform safe rescues whenever possible, and be ready to take protection hits and/or a hook for you.
I'd sad you hit the nail on the head. I think I'm going v to refer to it as using ds as offense rather than defense just to make things easier in convos. Unless you guys have a better phrase?
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@HaunterofShadows said:
My preposition is to make more killer perks that discourage these activities. I've said this multiple times.
How about survivor perks that effectively combat it?
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@Nathan13 said:
I'm sorry but there's nothing that's gonna be done about tunneling and camping because those are strategies that are part of the game. Yeah it can be boring when it happens to me but I just accept the loss and move on. It's not gonna happen every game.
He just said it happened every game
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188867#Comment_2188867
I'm saying it's a tactic Killers can use, and you can't remove it without removing that choice.
Removing it would force the Killer into sub-optimal play, or allow unhooks when a death could swing the game in his favor.
Because that's all threads like this are; Survivors wanting to FORCE the Killer into sub-optimal play, or demanding unhooks because they 'walked all the way across the map' for it. They want to remove the Killer's choice in the matter under the guise of 'fun'.
But it's only Survivor 'fun' they care about.
It would be like a Killer demanding punishments for genrushing (not to be confused to knowing sub-7-minute matches are a bit of a bad thing). Like saying 'The generator should teleport away if Survivors are near it for more than 20 seconds. Because when they win too fast, I don't get to play as much as I want'.
Note: That is a direct analogy to a Survivor demanding hooks teleport if the Killer stays nearby, and the fallacy of 'A hooked Survivor does not get to play much'.
If you can't accept getting knocked out of a PvP game by your opponent; don't play PvP games.
But don't stomp onto the forums, demand the mechanics be changed to cater to your 'fun', and expect the devs to go 'Oh sure! Let us totally cripple the opposing player for you!'
So you were against any change that remove Survivor choice and forcing them into sub optimal play too right? Take ds nerf, I don't think player agency is something that can't be infringed on so can say it was a good idea to nerf ds since it made things more fun, but since you hate losing agency you must have been against it right? I mean there choice to use ds as a weapon was removed for Killer fun you must hate that.....or all that player agency is just fluff and you don't really care about it.?
As for me being camped I'd estimate I run into camping about 40 to 50 matches out of a hundred, but face camping out the gate maybe only 10 out of 100, most of the time it's after survivors are doing a couple gens. So since there's 4 survivors I'd guess I'm the one on the hook 25perxent of the time so 10 to 13 matches out of 100 I'm the one on the hook
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@Power_Guy said:
Oh look; another salty Survivor screeching to hobble Killers because they don't approve of how the Killer wins.
And they will continue to throw out 'It's not fun for the camped Survivor!' while also ignoring that it's not fun for the Killer if he loses matches because the game punishes him for trying his hardest to win.
But go on with your little screeching, folks. I know @wxnickxw will continue to ignore all logic in order to pretend his solutions are universally loved, while saying Killers ONLY defend camping 'because it works'.
I mean, that totally ignores that Survivors MAKE IT WORK, because they are sublimely convinced Killers defend camping for easy wins. Not because it can't really be punished without taking away player agency & making Killers leave in droves as they game becomes incredibly lopsided.
If you punish camping, and force Killers to give up free unhooks though any of the myriad of stupid ways Survivors suggest, while not looking at gen speeds; Killers will straight up quit as it becomes almost impossible to win.
I've pointed it out before, but certain Survivors seem hellbent on ignoring it; It takes Killers twice as long to 12 hook everyone (roughly 12 minutes) as it does for ONE Survivor, ALONE, to do ONE GEN AT A TIME with NO ITEMS (Which is 6.66 minutes, btw).
But y'all go on with how camping is 'unfun' because you lost your last match. It's pitifully obvious you just want free unhooks & want easy wins by hobbling Killers.
But keep stomping your feet and screaming like toddlers instead of...oh, I don't know...getting gud.
It's never Survivor's faults. Killers are evil for camping. Killers are evil for slugging. Killers are evil for tunneling. They should never actually attempt to win unless Survivors say it's okay!
And for the vaguely-defined 'fun' of Survivors, Killers should not be allowed to do any of those things. Only Survivors are allowed to try to win! Killers are just here for Survivors to bully! So punish camping now! Make them lose BP! Ban them! If they don't 12 hook, their accounts should be deleted!
Survivors get SWF, meta perks, items, and voice comms! But Killers don't get to try to win unless Survivors approve of how!
How DARE Killers actually KILL people!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Just real quick you could you clarify if your saying camping is the only way for a killer to win because some of your post seems to indicate you do but other parts don't. a lot of killers are saying it's something they don't bother with becuase there are other ways to play but I cant tell from your post which side your on, so if you clarify your stance I'll respond.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2188831#Comment_2188831
How many times do you get camped in, say, 100 games?
I'd bet that it's probably about the same amount of times Killers actually go against a 4-man Red Rank SWF. (ie not often)
Are you asking hiw many times I'm camped as in I'm the one on the hook or are you asking how many times I play against a camper?
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Problem your going to run into when looking for how devs could fix the game is alot of killer mains will run in quickly coming up with excuses to keep camping in becuase it's currently a good strat and they don't want to loose it.
Often times it's something along the lines of just don't get caught (forgetting the game is designed to have killers catch survivors multiple times in a match) or just do gens (somehow that helps the hooked survovor) or the one me and thus other guy keep getting into, don't take away camping becusse taking away there choice to use any tactic is inheritantly wrong (although it's fine if you want to limit survivor tactics for some reason that is ok)
As for addressing camping it's easy thendevs could either stop hook progression when the killer is near the hook and not in a chase, or you could double the base hook time and then make it go faster the further the killer is away from the hooked survivor.
Also be prepared for a number of killer mains to post that won't work becuase it would be an abuse if the killer can't hook when 5hey want. They usually dress it up by giving a scenario where the survivors are doing something (trying to bait the killer away from the hook, doing a gen, or standing in a corner) and the killer wouldn't want to leave the hook but they would be forced to if they wanted to win and thats just not fair
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@TGB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186715#Comment_2186715
The game isn't fun when it's always a 4-stack of max-Perk Survivors flashlight spamming you and teabagging you at the gates. Efficiently managing their time, everyone having Borrowed Time and other obnoxious things, and the game starting with 2-3 gens down.
Yes. That is when...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186661#Comment_2186661
That is when I want free stuff so that I can play the game with the best stuff. Because everyone I'm playing against has the best stuff.
You had to go through the grind? I'm sorry you had to do that. But I don't also want to have to, ESPECIALLY if it's just because YOU had to. That is NOT a good reason.
Improve the game. It's that simple. Don't hold onto improvements because, like I said several times, all the Sunk Costers would feel mad about it.
Let me BUY the game at a full price value, including all perks. Hey, how about you make it up to the Sunk Costers by giving them Auric Cells based on... their player level, or how many teachables they've unlocked, or something like that. BAM, done & done. Everyone's happy. (Well of course some people will still be mad, because they like being mad and they like gatekeeping. But, there'd be a lot more people happy than there are now.)
DO NOT LET GATEKEEPERS RUIN THIS GAME! MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE GOOD FOR THE GAME!
Better for game play or Better for the devs ability ti make money, those are 2 different things
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187394#Comment_2187394
Please do not presume to assign motives to me. I'm a very direct, open person and if I have motives I state them. Your behavior is offensive when you do it, although I will grant you aren't aware of this because I'm not exactly rank in file in my reactions to things. I do not "like" Camping, Tunneling, or Slugging, or any tactic more or less than another. These things are merely tools and I have no attachment to them one way or another. What is important to me is Player agency exist and the option to use them exists. I actually utilize them infrequently as I like to set personal challenges to my play to keep it fresh. I don't do this for any false morality or artificial moray but simply for my own entertainment. The long and the short of it is you don't know the first thing about me, even after all our conversations. I still find this odd because I'm a fairly open book, and I state my biases up front.
I think Pulsar's choice of words was accidental and unfortunate. He used "compensation" when what he clearly was getting at was an overall game balance levy. You leapt upon his statement as if he was indicating that Killer Players require personal compensation for losing something to placate them, when he was in fact talking about avoiding having to rebalance the entire game around unintended consequences of the changes. The alteration to DS, for example, didn't alter game balance in any significant way. The only thing that has changed is some Players, who took it for doing objectives in the Killer's face, have stopped taking it. That turn of events is PLAYER driven, i.e. part of agency, and not because either side is forced into adapting to a new normal. Are you able to follow this?
You have an unfortunate habit of missing the forest for the trees. I've watched you do it at length in our debates, and I've been paying attention when you talk to others as well because I wanted to determine if this is a rhetorical ruse or simply because you are an overly literal person and "big picture" context is obscured from you. I'm still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that is a "big picture" problem. Thus, when Pulsar used the word compensation, you used one (the most common) definition of the term and misunderstood him when he was (in context) talking about something else entirely.
If you were here from the start of our conversation you would have seen that he had the opportunity to point out if his wording was in error. He did not, he stated clearly that the ds nerf would have also required a correspondence killer nerf, however exceptions were made depending on the overpoweredness involved. Do not speak for someone else by ignoring their posts and substitute your own thoughts for them.
As for your player agency issues it's funny to me how the player agency only seems to matter to you when it comes to killers. The players tactics involving the use if ds before the nerf that was taken away? Oh you say no that's OK some Players can't just sit in front of the killer doing their objective (very different from the killer sitting in front of the survivor doing their objective) sure some players build their survivor around it but that's OK when there agency was infringed in your mind becuase unlike killer tactic of camping....well it's not important becusde you said so.
You constsntanly refer to yourself as some sort of champion of player agency when it effects a killers methods of winning but somehow when survivor agency is effected and their method of winning is removed well now it's fine. How about you either actually argue for player agency instead of claiming you do, or just be honest and admit it's only killer players agency.
I'm curious if you going to ty and say that camping is so much more important to killers than anything a survivor does so it's OK to infringe on there agency.
Or maybe point out that you don't really use camping. Funny if you can manage just fine without camping it seems the game would be playable for other killers without it too no? Or are you just so much better than every other killer out there so o ly you can manage without jt
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186500#Comment_2186500
Since when we can buy BP with money?
You can't, but a skinner box makes you feel good and keep playing, and if your not playing your not spending money
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186601#Comment_2186601
I'm going to comment on this, but only briefly. You are trying to compare apples and oranges here, and slip it into your debate with Pulsar on the sly. You and I had this conversation. Decisive Strike is a PERK. Camping is a tactic, i.e. an aspect of Player agency, a matter of their personal play style. A Perk is a coded mechanic. A tactic is a manifestation of free will and personality. Please do not construe these things, nor pretend they are remotely the same. I'm sure you can make your argument and support it without mixing and matching two very different things.
While the two may be different he was clear that any buff or nerf needs to be addressed in both sides unless it was to op. He clearly stated that if you read his post
And as for your distinction between a perk being a coded mechanic and a tactic, hate to break it to you but hook timers are also a coded mechanic, so is movement speed by the way your distinction between a coded mechanic perk and a coded mechanic tactic is meaningless. To illustrate the survivor use of ds was a tactic wherein they would purposefully get caught to trigger ds. This was addressed by changing the coded mechanic of the perk. Our discussion on addressing camping is the same, the tactic being addressed is camping the hook timer the coded mechanic.
I know in your mind camping is sme sore of holy tactic of the killer and I'm sure that the ds abuse was just something minor in your view because you like camping that much more but they both remain tactics that were addressed by altering the game's mechanica
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186528#Comment_2186528
I did not say that every change needs a corresponding nerf/buff.
DS was overpowered and as such, nerfing it was bringing it in line, ergo, no Killer nerf needed.
Got it ds overpowered OK to nerf, camping not overpowered do needs to nerf survivors to be fair. Do you have a list of overpowered things that can get a free nerf or is it one of those if the devs don't do a corresponding nerf it was overpowered.
Also do the corresponding nerfs have a particular degree of nerfing that follows, for example if gen required 10 percent more time do killer regression perks have to be 10 percent less effective or is it just having a nerf good enough like 130 second gens and .025 of a percent regression penalty?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186505#Comment_2186505
Because gen regression perks would become MASSIVELY stronger in that scenario.
Every PGTW kick would be an extra 30-40 seconds. Ruin would be devastating. Corrupt would be absurd.
It isn't offsetting a change, it's rebalancing perks based on a new environment.
you can't just buff things without looking at how perks interact with said changes.
In OP's proposition, he massively extends the game for Killers, but doesn't extend it at all for Survivors (and there are already a ton of complaints that gens are too fast)
This change would make it so that Killers never win unless they play bad players.
You make it seem like increasing or decreasing anything requires a set off. If they aid let's up gens to 130 seconds and found this is too much they could lower it to 100 or 110 or 90, I'm having trouble seeming why every change needs a corresponding nerf or buff. But if so what was the corresponding killer nerf for the ds nerf that hit a little while ago?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186496#Comment_2186496
For such a drastic change, yes.
This would be like increasing gen times to 130 seconds, but not adjusting gen regression perks.
If you increased gen times why would you then decrease gen regression perks to offset the change? If they wanted to increase the total amount of time it takes to do gens whybcant they just do it?
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@TGB said:
BP is why I quit this game years ago.
Upon hearing that all perks [etc] are unlocked in custom games, my friends and I have come back to the game to play 5-man lobbies, and those have been lots of fun. And I feel like I'm able to play a game I've never been able to play before.
... But when everyone's offline or they don't wanna play DBD and I do, I'm left with... ... ... ranked mode. Where I have a weak Claudette, or totally perkless Killers.
From my lazy calculations, it takes about 1.5mil BP to level 40 a character... to unlock their Teachables... which then you still have to grind out the RNGweb to get on any given character...
THEN, god forbid you're trying to play Killer in general, trying to farm BP/perks... It's nothing but BM'ing, teabagging 4-stacks with quad flashlights and maximum perks, ranks 1-8 versus your rank 18 Killer... And GOD FORBID you actually hook someone. They just leave the game and rob you of your BP...
THE REAL GAME IS A COMPLETELY UNFUN NIGHTMARE.
But custom games are a LOT OF FUN.
... Why not just MAKE the real game fun, too????? Playing the game, without BP on your mind, lets you focus on the actual game, and lets you just have fun with it. Having all the perks, again, LETS YOU PLAY THE GAME, and not spend your entire life trying to farm for the next thing.
At LEAST let me pay money to get my perks. Don't let all the Sunk Cost Fallaciers gatekeep DBD by being against that. Let DBD be a GOOD GAME. If everyone wants a game where you grind your whole life away and have something to show for it, Runescape is still alive & well. Go play that. The rest of us want to play DBD. (But can't.)
$$$$$ that's why
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186487#Comment_2186487
True, but there's not really any compensation on the Killer side.
Does there need to be compensation for the other side for every nerf/buff. If so whats the current talley is it the killers turn ot survivors for one?
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@Pulsar said:
Forcing Killers to 12-hook without massively slowing down the game is not going to work out.
This is just a huge buff to Survivor.
In all fairness anything that reduces or removes camping is going to be a large buff ti survivors
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186319#Comment_2186319
Since I'm quite tired of this, I'm going to finish it up here. 1. You have yet to answer my questions despite me answering yours. 2. You haven't fully demonstrated how camping is a big problem, especially when many perks exist to counter it. We don't have to change the mechanics of the game just because some survivors aren't smart. If camping doesn't work every single game, then maybe it's not the game mechanics. Maybe the burden lies on the players involved, not the game. Jerks & noobs aside, most camping is caused by generators going extremely quickly. If generators take longer to complete, killers will patrol them far more often, rather than sticking to one side of the map. The longer the game, the more players are forced to interact to pip and gain bloodpoints. This goes for campers & gen jockeys. Now, you're likely going to turn this into a double-edged sword and say hey, couldn't the same be said about killers? Don't they need to just improve and we won't have to improve gen times? Yes, but the problem is a killer has to interact with other players 100% of the time, while a survivor has 3 buddies to help him out. Killer is far more difficult and stressful than survivor. That needs to be slightly tweaked. The best way to beat a camper is to both win and lose against one. I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer. Camping is rare. It's often the killers pure skill that destroys us. The same can be said when we destroy him. **The issue is, because killer is more difficult than survivor at the moment, we have a ton of rank 1 survivors that only know how to do generators. When they die, they complain to the forums that camping is a problem.** In short, increasing the length of games slightly would encourage player interaction and therefore increase skill. Even if camping increases, players will learn how to deal with it due to repetitive player interaction and practice. You need to understand that practice makes perfect. We're done here.
I thought I did answer your question about why camping is bad and should be changed my bad kts becuss it's boring for the camped survivor.
As for perks please explain how to use ds when your being camped. You sitting on he hook your team are doing what you said they should, sitting on gens and the killer is right in front of you. I'm not sure what you can do in this instance so walk me through it?
You keep mentioning that killers will go away from camping with more time. We've sorted this out for Killers who camp right out if the gate, as we have both acknowledged extending gen times just makes ot so that strat is better and thus will increase the number of people doing it.
Since you refuse to confirm your playstyle imnjist going to have to go with you don't camp unless your loosing. In that case ot doesn't matter how long the survivors have to work on gens if they are doing better than you like(based on whatever criteria you personally use) then you will camp.
So if you are loosing and it takes them 80 seconds per gen you will camp. If your loosing and it takes 90 you will camp. If you aren't loosing and it takes 80 seconds per gen you won't camp and if you aren't loosing and it takes 90 seconds per gen you won't camp. Doesn't make a difference how long the survivors need on a gen if your loosing you camp if not you won't so for Killers like you changing gen times doesn't do anything to address camping good or bad.
For the third type of killer, one who never camps then once again changing the gen time won't change his camping becuaee regardless of the gen time there is no camping.
So to sum up always camping killers will be promoted by increased gen time, only when your loosing campers will camp the same amount. And never campers will camp the same amount. So in all instances increasing gen time does either nothing to address camping or promotes it.
Now i don't think you need me to explain why decreasing gen times makes the camping out of the gate strategy worse do you? So to simplify although you may want to pretend that you would be so much happier if the gens were longer and therefore wouldn't camp, at the end if the day you will camp to win, like most killers I'd say.
so the only way that you would be decreasing camping by messing with gen times is by decreasing gen times not increasing it as increasing promotes camping. Now there are plenty of other reasons to increase the gen times but addressing camping is simply not one.
I hope I answered your questions if I missed one let me know
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186419#Comment_2186419
This is true. You can't accurately balance something until people are playing with people of their skill level.
Yah but then not everyone can get to max rank and they will be sad. Last time I remember a game with proper matchmaking was halo 2 way back in the day, since then I can't think of a game that didn't just give you high levels for playing regardless of how Ewell you play
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You said it wasn't worth bringing attention to it but rather than just clicking thr button or not responding at all you made a post explaining it....thus bringing attention to it.
So I was wondering if you didn't want to bring attention to it....why did you bring attention to it
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2185980#Comment_2185980
I didn't vote at all, because most killers I face actively go out of their way to avoid doing these things, unless we're doing the gens too fast.
There's slugging for the sake of map pressure (like slugging one survivor and looking for the other, after the other 2 have already died), and then there's slugging for the sake of being douchey (4-man slugging at 5 gens).
The latter of which happens so little (to me anyway) that I just don't think it's worth trying to bring attention to.
Theb why bring attention to it?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186307#Comment_2186307
People will be more inclined to camp if it's a 5 minute game vs if it's a 10 minute game..... 5 minutes of camp is already boring. 10 is SUPER boring. The fun from this game (I think most people agree with me here) comes from winning tons of chases and hooking lots of survivors. For survivors it winning chases, & preventing people from getting hooked. Imagine loitering around a hook for 10 minutes vs loitering for 5. One is much more tenable. Unless of course, you think killers are not people and are robots who will camp for hours just to win?
The amount of time it takes a killer to stand and wait for the death of a player doesn't change based on the length of time it takes survivors to do gens. So it's irrelevant to the camping killer in terms of bordom. What it does change though is how easy it is for them to then go camp the second survivor.
OK so since you haven't confirmed your playdtyle I'm guessing I'm getting it wrong so I apologize but I'm not sure how to discuss how this could reduce or increase camping for your style of play Ilif you don't set out what that style is. As you said we need to examine from the killers perspective so please provide how tou play so we can do that
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186281#Comment_2186281
I've answered all of your questions. Longer games would make killers who having a camping strategy have a better time. However, it would also make your average killer have a better time. Now, can you please answer my questions? 1. Survivors have BT, Kindered, Decisive, and exhaustion perks to prevent camping/tunneling. What do killers have to maintain a camp/tunnel? BT is more meta than insidious.
Oh OK I think I misunderstood you there. So to be clear we both accept that camping out the gate killers will increase with your proposed change right?
If so let's move onto your playstyle. But again I need you to confirm I have you playstyle right, that is that you camp only when your loosing
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186281#Comment_2186281
I don't think more people will try the 'camp out of the gate strat' because if games get longer, camping will get more boring. Again, please understand camping isn't fun. Smart killers will be forced to tunnel a survivor out of the game if generators go too quickly and they're in a bad position. No changing that. What I'm arguing for is to give more time to killers to actually display their skill.
Sorry so your thinking is that even though killers out there camp out of the gate, (even though you think it's already boring for them to do so yet they still do it) your saying less people would camp out the gate if camping out the gate was more effective than it currently is?
you don't see that as ridiculous? these players are doing something you think is boring for them to secure a win and you think they would stop doing that if it became even easier for them to win? Seems you can't put yourself in theire shoes very well at all so how about we look at your playstyle?
Just to make sure i don't misrepresent how you play, you don't camp unless your loosing right?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186270#Comment_2186270
You're right, it would assist a 'camp out the gate killer' but it would benefit your average killer. Average killers always receive more bloodpoints and pips than camping killers. Yet I still disagree with your notion that camping is such a big problem. It's easily preventable. Kindered, BT, decisive, and an exhaustion perk all to prevent you from being camped and tunneled! Killers have..... Insidious to maintain a camp? Which combination is better?
OK so it benefits the camp out the gate playstyle. Glad we got that worked out. Now I don't think it's hard to understand that if a strat get better more.will play it than if it's worse.
Now on to your killer playstyle. You said you avoid camping unless your in a bad position, ie your loosing the match right?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186251#Comment_2186251
Win chases so you don't get hooked in the first place.... Don't like camping+tunneling? Bring decisive. You seem to keep glossing over the fact that it's a 1v4 where one side has plenty of perks to escape a camp and the other has little to maintain one.
Sorry how do you decisive strike if your team us doing gens as you say the good survivors do when being camped?
Oh and just checking but are you saying that if two equally skilled players are against each other the survivor can avoid being caught for the entire match? Cause most people are prepared to admit the game is designed so survivors get caught which is why killers are faster and get faster as the chase goes on
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186247#Comment_2186247
It's impossible to know because it's never been tried.... Don't make basic assumptions. As a killer if gens went slower I'd be patrolling and chasing survivors more than I would be when camping a shorter game. Please approach it from both perspectives.
Well.lets look at it from multiple killer perspectives.
If you are a camp right out of the gate killer and then your particular playstyle of killer shall we?
I posted earlier about how increasing gen times would make it even better for the camping out the Gate killer, do you agree or disagree?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186247#Comment_2186247
It's impossible to know because it's never been tried.... Don't make basic assumptions. As a killer if gens went slower I'd be patrolling and chasing survivors more than I would be when camping a shorter game. Please approach it from both perspectives.
Well.lets look at it from multiple killer perspectives.
If you are a camp right out of the gate killer and then your particular playstyle of killer shall we?
I posted earlier about how increasing gen times would make it even better for the camping out the Gate killer, do you agree or disagree?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186238#Comment_2186238
If you're good at the game you won't be on the hook the whole game.... If you can't win chases that's on you. Don't blame the killer for taking advantage of your weaknesses. This shouldn't be a problem if you're at rank one. Which is also why increasing gen times would force survivors to be involved in more chases, henceforth improving their skills, then preventing a large amount of gen jockey idiots from being present in rank 1.
Sorry if your good at the game you won't be on the hook the whole game? Since you said good players will do gens while your being camped could you tell me what a good player can do to get off the hook while there being camped so that they aren't being hooked the while game?
Or did you mean you won't be on the hook for the whole game becusse your going to be dead after a few minutes?
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186231#Comment_2186231
So you say regardless of what you do, killers will just camp camp camp everyone? Like I said, give them more opportunities to NOT camp, and they may end up not camping you. Your basic assumption is essentially that all killers are dirty campers? Please answer this basic question...... Do you believe killers want to camp to win? Do they always do it?
No I'm not saying that no matter the change camping will increase.
Infact I said a couple times that while increasing time would increase camping, reducing rime would reduce camping. So I'm not sure why you think that I don't think anything can be done.
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186210#Comment_2186210
And don't try to make this into a "gotcha" moment. If camping was such a big problem, survivors would constantly lose. Camping only works when survivors are stupid. If you do a gen or two, get chased for a while, and die being camped, you'll pip up and henceforth get matched with better survivors. Plenty of opportunities for you!
Not sure what you think I'm going to get you with. I'm curious though hiw do you pip up if your just sitting on the hook, there's not much chance to pip up there, also it's not much fun.
Oh wait if your talking about me going after your argument that increasing time would reduce camping yah I'm going to go after that unless you can justify your post
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186210#Comment_2186210
Why do you automatically assume longer matches will increase camping? If the killer has more time to patrol generators and chase survivor, they'll be too busy to camp. I do understand your perspective, though.
Well if you camping a hook from start to finish then you aren't doing anything else.
Lets say you know you need to camp for 1 min after your first catch for them to die. you know that is one minute where the other survivors are working on gens. If you know that it only takes those three 2 minutes to finish gens and escape then its dangerous to camp becusse catching 3 survivors in one minute after the guy dies is a short period of time so your probably better to run for the others and not try to camp I'm the first place.
On the other hand if you know it will take them say 10 more minutes than you can safely camp and still have plenty of time to go chase the other 3.
If the time is long enough it would even be better to fully camp the first survivor and then go and fully camp the second one too cause the time allows it
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@MrMyers4321 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186163#Comment_2186163
It's impossible to completely stop camping, unless you completely reshape the game. What I'm saying is that generators are a bigger problem. It's easier to do a gen (hold M1 for 80 seconds) than pull off a 1v3 camp. I never said I support camping, but at the moment I think generator speeds require more attention. Making generators more difficult to do will make the game more skill based. (Chasing and being chased) Also, camping is discouraged because you probably won't pip and I KNOW you won't get many bloodpoints.
I agree it's not possible to stop 100 percent. It would be easy to significantly reduce it however, to the point it woukd no longer be such an issue.
The issue with increasing gen times would be that it would increase the viability of camping which would in turn increase camping.
Unless you can explain how it would reduce camping, but after I raised a couple points on that topic you kinda glossed over them with an its impossibly to stop camping comment, so I'm taking it your not refuting that it woukd increase camping viability. (Or insidentaly how shortening gen times would have the opposite effect.)
It's too bad becuase I like the idea of increased match time on its own but since it wiukd result in more camping I'm against it. unless camping was fixed, or if longer matches would somehow reduce camping I see it as a net loss.