oxygen
oxygen
About
- Username
- oxygen
- Joined
- Visits
- 8,170
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Alphaphalt said:
Everytime a gigamind says something about how strong Spirit is you know they didn't watch the video. Ah yes, I love you DBD forums.
Considering how many people that seem to almost be proud of making others have a bad time... I'm not surprised. With that mindset an arguement like "X isn't fun to play against" might as well be an ancient indecipherable language to them.
-
@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807460#Comment_807460
@GrootDude Can you be so kind to tell me where they say that they are going to look at Spirit? I am in a DbD facebook group and I would like to tell them the news. Thank you.
Recent live Q&A stream they did.
https://www.twitch.tv/deadbydaylight/clip/ObeseKitschyToothKippa -
Probably people who DC because they went down first or their totem was found early on. Scrub behavior all around.
-
I'd like to see the sabo addons for toolboxes given some sort of new use. I know they do have an impact on sabotage (I use the hacksaw myself if I have a sabo daily) but they'd certainly see more use if they did something else.
Flashlights could use some changes too, as besides the sorta meme-tier max blind duration bulb setup you basically just run batteries and the filament thing on them.
-
@Tzeentchling9 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/806900#Comment_806900
No, because other games allow that sort of external factors for both teams and most go out of their way to match such teams together, so that there is no difference in external factors.
That is a very good point that I genuinely didn't think of.
Still though, I don't see the devs ever specifically apply any sort of restrictions, handicaps or nerfs to SWF itself. It'd be survivor changes and killer changes in general to try to make the difference less extreme. I don't really know what else they'd do that's realistic whatsoever.
-
Because Spirit is something in the game and SWF is a game mode in the game that involves external factors you can't really touch. It's not the same thing.
Not even hardcore esports-focused games do more than restrict party sizes depending on game modes, I've never heard of a game that applies restrictions or penalties to people playing in parties. Hell, many games encourage it with XP bonuses and whatnot.
-
No conditions "must" be met actually.
I agree that toolboxes are silly, map reworks are very much desired and something to make matches last longer (preferably not just "more holding m1 on gens" though) would be great though. They will never do anything directly to SWF though, the only realistic option is the whole "buff baseline information, buff killers" thing as they will never apply direct restrictions or handicaps to SWF parties.
Realize that you seem have a more competitive mindset towards the game than the devs and majority of players, I highly doubt you'll see the sort of balance you desire at any point as this isn't a game with esports-style top-down balancing.
-
Because both the hatch changes and EGC aren't concerned with consistently helping one side or another, their only goal is to help end the match. And it does that just fine. If the survivor leaves through hatch the game ends, if the killer closes it it puts a hard time limit on how much longer the match can last.
-
Remember that even a Ruin totem that goes down in like 40 seconds might have an impact on the match. That might be what you needed to get someone on a hook and disrupt another survivor, while yet another one has to go for the save... that alone can be the difference between 3 gens popping in unison or not. Even if the survivors hit every skillcheck it technically buys you a tiny bit of time as they don't get bonus progression from their skillchecks.
Getting an early down can of course have a similar effect, Ruin often gets you a little more time to get the ball rolling. If you expect anything more out of Ruin on average it'll probably be a frustrating perk to use for you.
On the Badham rework variants and the newest map there's some pretty sneaky totem spots, so I'm sure future reworks will have similar improvements.
-
Would probably have to be based on some sort of killer category as opposed to individual killers.
Someone who's experienced at one m1 sort of killer has a lot of skills that directly transfer to another, while someone who has never played Nurse will obviously be pretty discouraged if they try to learn her at rank 1 because of her different mechanics. Same goes for killers like Hag, Huntress... basically most of the m2-reliant killers I guess.
-
Considering it doesn't block Jigsaw Boxes, I'd imagine it doesn't as they both have the same white aura?
-
Maybe, if she wasn't still the #1 killer.
If a nerf makes something go from S tier to B tier or something giving them something to compensate makes sense, when it at most takes a killer from undisputed SS tier to S tier that's not really needed.
-
Maybe it'd work if the block list had a limited size, pretty sure that's how the avoid as teammate list in Overwatch works.
If you can only block 3-5 players or something you'd probably reserve the slots for genuinely unpleasant people like survivors hardcore sandbagging you, people saying stuff that should get them banned after the match or killers genuinely "playing for salt" first and foremost, and even if you fill it with people that are simply better than you there's no way you can block enough people for it to really screw with matchmaking. Make the blocks only last a week as well so you can't keep people permanently blocked.
-
@anarchy753 said:
Ok first, overperforming. A killer should (we assume) average 2 kills per match if they are "balanced," good survivors should beat them, bad survivors should die to them, good killer players should do well on them, bad killer players will probably struggle.
If a killer is overperforming, that means that they're averaging far more kills than that. It isn't simply that good players are playing them a lot, but that their power gives too much reward for how difficult it is to use. Spirit is not difficult to use, her power gives her huge mobility, allows her to land easy hits with very little counterplay on the survivor's side (there's not really anything you can do about a killer bumping into you and knowing exactly where to swing when you have no idea if they're behind you or in front of you) and her add ons present some huge issues, like Prayer Beads.
To say "don't nerf Spirit, buff everything else" is what people (Nurse mains) said for years about Nurse. The issue is that that presumes that Spirit is balanced, and that buffing everything else up bring EVERYTHING to a point of balance. From the information we're given (that she is "overperforming") we know she ISN'T balanced.
Nerfing her, like Nurse, is not going to bring her down to M1 killer tier by default. There's a lot of small tweaks (taking out prayer beads, no collision while phasing, no passive phasing, an actual tell to her standing-still "mind game") that would make her much fairer to play against without hurting most good Spirit players significantly.
People who like killer don't often just suddenly start enjoying survivor more. People play different killers, it's more about the hunting and gameplay than it is about just playing DBD. Red rank killers don't HAVE to play the most broken thing in the game to do well, and if they do, they probably shouldn't be highly ranked anyway. It's incredibly unlikely that changing Spirit would magically kill red ranks. Consider that most of these killer nerfs, buffs and reworks are coming alongside map reworks that make playing other killers less cumbersome, and a lot of fixes to things on the survivor side as well. It isn't as simple as "nerf Spirit, killer as a whole is dead."
Yes, there is a "next" after Spirit too, the devs basically gave a not-quite-concise list on the Q&A this week, mostly problematic add ons like Iridescent heads, or the Key/Mori situation. It doesn't mean 1 by 1 they're killing anything good, it's change to make both sides more enjoyable across the board by fixing overly strong aspects of the game that are oppressive because of how strong they are. Sadly, Spirit is one of those things.
Your points about overperforming and buffing weaker killers is very true. If Spirit is genuinely overperforming in regard to what the devs consider the desired balancing goal, it makes absolutely no sense to try to buff anyone else up to her level or even close.
At this point I simply feel a lot of people have a mindset when viewing the game more suited for games geared towards esports from the ground up. Which is a mindset that is straight up incompatible with how DBD is designed and the goals we've heard the devs state in the past as it seems like they'd like it if both crushing defeats/0k and dominant victories/4k were more rare than they are today.
-
I wonder what the statistics actually are.
And "overperforming" isn't some sort of "we can't have killers that KILL in our game" nonsense. In data-driven balancing in many other games something as simple as a 60% winrate as opposed to a ~50% winrate might be considered an extreme and unacceptable case of overperforming. If the devs do have some sort of desired balancing goal and Spirit is above it by a significant margin the statement makes perfect sense.
Of course if they do want to pursue their desired number more seriously there's things like killer emblems in higher ranks that would have to be tweaked, regardless if they'd like 2k, 3k or anything else to be the average efficiency. And that's assuming the statistics handle stuff like disconnects and rank concerns in a sensible way that doesn't skew it horribly.
-
Rank-specific difficulty changes is an easy way to make people derank.
Think of some sort of secondary objective instead of just adding more "hold m1" to the game.
-
@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
Whatever we say is pointless. They always win.Remember, we are outnumbered (4v1)
Edit: The answers below show that most if the complaints are from people who have never played spirit or they've only played her at yellow ranks, so don't get your hopes up.
A lot of people actually play both survivor and killer though. And that there's people that mostly play killer that want Spirit changed, and people that mostly play survivor that are fine with her or want minor stuff like swapping rarities on addons around?
It's not as simple as "4 survivors for every 1 killer" in any other circumstance than in an actual match.
-
So what exactly are you saying?
That people now know the devs are actually aware of all the complaints directed at Spirit and that they heard it from the devs themselves that she's "overperforming", and that alone is all a lot of people that were complaining wanted to know?
Because I really hope that's what you're saying, as the alternative really starts getting dangerously close to delusional survivor main secret society paranoia.
-
I mean you shouldn't have disconnected but anyone going as far as that guy has some serious issues.
Considering you say they did not only go way past the point of "trash talking" and also circumvented a block, report them. In-game (if they said stuff in the post-game chat, skip that otherwise), and if on console report them to Sony/Microsoft or however that works, as it's blatant harassment.
-
@8obot1c said:
Not gonna lie, I always wanted to mess up a skillcheck on purpose when our whole team was on a generator
If they all run away and don't want to work on it with you, that's fair but somewhat boring.
If they get off and just stare at you for a moment in an amusingly disappointed way you've found yourself a fun team 😄
-
Just beware, if you've never really been one for camping you might find it incredibly boring. Especially when the survivors actually do leave their buddy on the hook and do gens.
-
Just go big brain mode and approach without looking at them!
I'm joking (even though doing that would make me feel like a complete megamind), but the increase on Spine Chill usage both because more and more people praise the perk and the fact it's good against Spirit does hit sneaky killers the most for sure.
-
Go Lerys and run around the outer "ring" and there's tons of them. Personally I just found two rocks at the edge of another map with 3 and 2 crows respectively, and just waited for them to land before scaring them again.
More crows would be nice though, both for Spies and for the moments where you see a single crow fly away and you find someone because of it.
-
Personally I don't really mind (at least the Tier 1 challenges) as I'm the kind of player that would randomize my loadout and stuff if I start to get bored, so having specific little challenges that might require a different playstyle is fine. But then again I'm not a player that's extremely competitive and concerned about consistency. I've seen some people have fun with the "scare crows" challenge too, names like "crow disturber" and a Myers that protected a rock where 3 crows landed while a survivor tried to run over to scare them before him when they landed 😄
Only thing I'm worried about is that if the later "do in one match" challenges get too ridiculous people might just DC/suicide if they realize they won't be getting that do X gens solo or trap Y survivors in one match challenge to move onto another game, sorta like how survivors would just die on hook after sucking the flowers dry in that one event.
-
Yeah, it sometimes breaks on PC too and people show as "In a match" when they're not, or they're in your lobby on their screen but not on your screen. And you gotta restart the game.
No clue what causes it but would be nice to have it fixed for all platforms that experience it.
-
I mean, it's a pretty common and hilariously hypocritical thing. Survivors justifying DCing for silly reasons while mocking killers that DC, killers straight up encouraging people to DC from bad maps while whining about survivors doing it 😄
Hopefully DC punishments will inconvenience people into doing it less overall.
-
I'll be honest, if 3 survivors are hooked in the basement a lot of the time I can't resist joining them. I feel left out, and basement parties are a rare and sorta beautiful sight 😄
-
@SteelDragon said:
if they treat spirit like they treated nurse I will face camp every survivor as spirit with the name "want to cry about spirit? cry about this" (I know that is to long that is just what I will be typing to the people who complain about face campers) I don't face camp ever, at best I will proxy camp WHEN I KNOW people are around the hook looking for the unhook. but if BHVR caves into the survivor cries again with spirit then im gonna break this code of mine to never face camp
Nurse is still the strongest killer in the game though, she's just harder to use properly. That's how it should be, a killer with an almost infinitely high skill ceiling and crazy power potential should be hard to get good at, but the rewards should be considerable. This is still completely true for her even after the nerf.
So if you genuinely believe the intensity of complaints is directly proportional to what changes they'll do you should hope Spirit gets "the nurse treatment", not threaten to act like a spoiled child stomping around because your favorite toy was taken away. Freddy and Legion got harsh nerfs that went too far (something had to be done about Legion, but that's another discussion), Nurse was completely different.
-
The syringe is actually pretty cool and I've been having fun with the new function, it's more of a thing to use in a chase or to quickly just apply it to someone you unhook or something now.
The syringe and styptic also have an interesting sort of interaction with eachother. If a killer sees you use one on yourself, they can't know which one you used. If they hit you to deny you a syringe heal but you had a styptic, you go into DW. If they try to wait out Endurance but you used a syringe, you get closer to the heal applying while they wait and might find something to use to buy time.
They're still good, probably wouldn't be too bad if the Styptic gave longer endurance (like 12 seconds as opposed to 8) but if used right in the killer's face it's basically the same as before as far as the chase is concerned.
-
I still like the idea of giving the killer a bp modifier for any action they do while someone's on the hook and for a little while after they get unhooked though. It makes sense, not just because "camping bad" but it explicitly rewards and encourages keeping more survivors occupied at the same time which is usually something a killer should want to do in the first place.
@[Deleted User] said:
If they made a survivor score event for being camped I have a feeling a lot of killers would find another tactic rather than giving that survivor more bp lol
This is probably one of the few things that might make some of the people that do it exclusively to "play for salt" find something else to do. At least even hardcore tunneling is more interactive than 5-gens-up hard camping with no tactical reasoning behind it.
-
Personally I don't think it's really a problem for that perk.
It's already a perk that's all about putting all the attention on you as opposed to the person you unhooked afterall.
-
@Gengarism said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/797119#Comment_797119
A lot of people with mori lists mark you by name + steam id/profile id 😣
Even more reason to make people's profiles unavailable then.
But it probably won't happen as people would lose it if they can't scan for SWF no matter how pointless it is now as more people have private profiles or hidden friends lists.
-
I mean it would be better, as at least 3 survivors can't peace out of the match without doing the last generator first. I'd rather see something like keys only letting one survivor jump through the hatch though, even though that would require that one achievement to be changed (or make the current functionality an ultra rare addon or something as the lazier approach).
@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/795698#Comment_795698
I always slug but sometimes they DC to give their friend the hatch but it feels so unfair to me that they get a chance to escape even though they only completed only 1 or 2 gens
I highly doubt they'd ever remove the entire hatch mechanic, so best we can really hope for is some sort of limitation to how much impact a key can have I think.
-
If they did that they should probably make the stack cooldown shared between unhooks and protection hits, to prevent people from getting two easy stacks by basically rushing a hook with BT and trading places with the hooked survivor.
I'd like to see how it is with actually consistently functional protection hits first though 😄
-
Seeing items, characters and stuff like that should stay.
Seeing names (at least before the match) and especially having them lead to profiles is sorta pointless. People can just private their profiles entirely or partially anyway, and people can change their names.
And I'm pretty sure if someone systematically target you over several games and it can be proven that can count as harassment, but I can't remember the exact rules for that.
-
I guess that build could work if you take a hit early on while the killer carries someone and manage to crawl out of sight before they can get to a hook and come back to you.
If you pull it off you've basically already won the match if you ask me 😄
-
Most people (as in vast majority) don't hate SWF as a game mode or option itself, but one thing or another related to the imbalance between solos and SWF. This is a perfectly valid conversation to have that even the devs seem to have internally (with the talk of "closing the gap" and all that), as no matter if someone believes the power gap is underestimated or overestimated in the community, there is a difference for sure. Potential mechanical nerfs/handicaps applied to SWF parties is a discussion too, but I feel that's not a path the developers want to pursue (and I personally agree, without going into too much detail).
Yeah, there are people that want the SWF mode itself removed or want VOIP applications blocked, but people holding that opinion and being no-compromises about it are a minority for sure. And there's no nicer way to say it: They should uninstall and never look back if it's a passionate issue to them, as they'll never get what they want.
-
While it's a competitive game in the sense it's pvp and there's winners and losers, it's not a competitive game in the sense that it has esports-influenced balancing philosophies behind it. Going into DBD with that sort of mindset is honestly straight up incompitable with the design of the game in the long run unless you play 4man SWF where everyone's on the same page. People will cry if you do that, but their opinion is irrelevant if that's what you want to do as long as you don't go out of your way to be obnoxious.
Try to focus on other things than the end result of the match. Did you have a good chase? Cool, you accomplished something and hopefully had fun. Did you die but you did 3 gens and everyone else got out? Pat yourself on the back, you did your part. Try builds that force you into a different mindset like chest looting builds, super-specialized builds like ninja builds or anti-slug builds, when they do actually work it's great fun! Don't focus too hard on escaping or even pipping.
-
I mean yeah, she still has a power that's totally in a league of its own that basically can't be matched by anything but similar powers even on a conceptual level. Obviously harder to play her and probably more annoying though, especially if the cooldown "Ding!" is still there. Didn't try her too much on the PTB, so we'll see how she plays "for real" I guess.
-
It's not just a new system, it'll have a lot of new players that never played DBD before. When you start out and only know you're supposed to kill survivors camping hard seems like the obvious thing to do, when people improve and killers realize it doesn't win them games unless the survivors let them there will be less of it.
It's very similar on PC, low rank killers tend to camp a lot (unless they've already played a fair bit of survivor) just like low rank survivors tend to not punish it correctly (again, unless they've already played a fair bit of killer).
-
Spawned near a hex totem, figured the killer would come to check but went on it anyway. The killer did come and chased me away, but I marked it.
I feel people generally go towards the light like a moth even if they don't know what it is, because it's a massive pillar of light. Needless to say the totem was broken 30 seconds later.
If people really know what it actually is it can be pretty good to just place it by the gen you're working on as well. Not just to make people come work on it with you, but it also gives them the information needed to decide they should work on another gen if they want as well, or make them avoid leading the killer to you and interrupting your progress.
-
If they worked as the previous system but with the added benefit of completely eliminating lagswitching and the effect a killer's connection quality could have on the match as a whole that alone would be great.
Unless every DBD player plays on a giant LAN latency-related stuff like "hits that shouldn't hit" and "whiffs that should've hit" will happen, at least on dedicated servers you don't have to rely on a single consumer-level connection to have a functional match experience.
-
Survivors are 4 players and often kinda compete for points in certain categories. If someone runs the killer for 5 gens it'll be hard for anyone else to get boldness points besides totems which are limited in number, and if you get chased all the time it's gonna be hard for you to get objective and altruism points. The killer is one player and doesn't compete with anyone else like this. So it just sorta makes sense they often end up with more points.
In matches where a lot of spread out action happens and everyone gets the chance to do a bit of everything the points are often a lot more equal, but that's not how every match plays out.
-
The first part of their post is simply their own experience with using voice. Makes sense if they usually mess around with friends while in SWF, as it's 100% anecdotal.
The second part is important. Way too many people fail to realize that the strength of SWF is more complicated than simply voice chat. I'd argue the fact the players know eachother's playstyles, strengths and weaknesses is a more powerful advantage for the vast majority of SWF parties. You know that Johnny over there isn't that good at running from the killer, so Amy who is really good at it tries to get the killer's attention instead. And everyone knows Jack and John has Borrowed time, so they're the ones that go for the risky unhooks. This is something that can't be emulated with integrated voice chat, and makes it sorta pointless to compare it to SWF on VOIP. Nothing they do do "close the gap" can truly make every 4-solo group feel like playing against SWF for this very reason.
But in the end it doesn't matter. Even if Peanits explicitly said what you're accusing them of, it's not gonna change a thing. They will never apply mechanical nerfs/handicaps to SWF parties, and they'd be completely bonkers to waste resources on trying to interfere with people's use of VOIP apps. If it's a dealbreaker to you, do yourself a favor and uninstall the game.
-
@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/792418#Comment_792418
Exactly. Since we know the development of a game like DbD is going to eventually include comms whether the devs wanted it or not, we should just adapt and put it down a peg.
Ridiculous we still have to fight such a broken and forced mechanic years after the game has launched just because it was review bombed.
Do you mean SWF in general and not just the voice side of it?
I'm curious, what exactly would you want them to do to "put it down a peg"? Because I'm fairly confident I can say that mechanical handicaps/nerfs applied specifically to SWF parties will never happen, and obviously the removal of SWF is even less likely.
-
As Peanits said it's completely unenforcable. Even if we ignore the reputation hit actually blocking stuff like Discord would have, Steam and the consoles have their own integrated voice chat systems. And if all else fails people can just use their phones (if they don't quit the game alltogether of course!). And besides, it's a multiplayer game that partially offers team play, even hardcore esports titles at most restrict party sizes in certain ranks and never actually try to block voice chat.
Complete waste of resources to even attempt to restrict VOIP in any way.
-
Could be some silly fun as long as it's not framed as some epic esports event.
And considering what ScottJund said above it seems like that's what it is, so might be good for some laughs and fun games 😄
-
Because red ranks has a wide variety of skill levels just like any other rank.
I totally agree though, sometimes it goes beyond not being 100% "optimal" and enters totally silly territory. Especially people that can see eachother racing for unhooks or people not paying the slight amount of attention required to not hardcore 3gen themselves.
-
@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791885#Comment_791885
I get what you mean, a lot of people are taking things a bit too literal now a days and it seems to also be the case with the word "gg." Now people see it as a taunt or to just BM or something...
I think what I was going for in this post though was to touch up on how some people perceive a "good game" to be twisted now a days... since a lot of players consider a loss to be an automatic "bad game" when even a loss can be enjoyable if you got something out of it...
Like, you got a challenge or memes or new friends or whatever... It's not always a bad thing to lose, and even if you 1k you at least killed somone, and even if you died as a Survivor at least 1 person escaped or 2 or 3!
That was kind of what I was going for, but I understand what you mean by people looking... too deep into what people are saying when they write "gg" they take it as an insult sometimes when it's just two letters that's short for good game...
Oh I certainly get what you mean, I guess my post was a more generalized rant in a way.
There's certainly people that would never say gg after losing, and it doesn't help that there's very convenient and commonly used excuses that are more or less memes at this point. Like survivors calling a killer a camper when they never did so in the first place, or killers going on about SWF even when all the survivors were solo players. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, to the people doing that sort of thing it both gives them an excuse for their own loss, and also makes it "not a gg" because they convince themselves the other side didn't win in the "right way".
@Raptorrotas said:
The winner shouldnt gg first, that all there is to be said about the topic. Saying it first is just bragging or rubbing it in.
Other than that, dont tell a killer to be happy with one kill. You probably dont like to be told to appreciate getting just one generator done either.
I can partially agree with this, at least if it's a game where one side crushed the other. Saying it is more or less a habit for me, but this is something I think I should try to keep in mind for those games. If someone gets angry at a GG after a close match where they happened to lose that's honestly their problem though.
-
I just say gg if I'm there at the end... like I've done for almost 20 years of online gaming at this point. Was never an issue until the last few years, people just said it regardless of how the game went and moved on, or left without saying anything. None of this "actually... it was bg!" stuff.
I sorta hate that people look too deep into it. Like I've seen people "read between the lines" and take a simple gg as some subtle brag or taunt, and it's like... no? If people want to do that there's stuff like gg ez for that, not like people are afraid of being open about their taunts and trash talk in this game 😄
EDIT: Not accusing OP of looking too deep into it by the way, sorry if it seemed that way. But it's something I've seen become more and more common the last few years.