Some conditions must be met before touching spirit
As we all know Spirit is getting nerfed, because devs preferred to listen to survivors who don't even know how to counter her or refuse to do so by DCing. There is nothing we can do to change their mind, but they should consider some important changes before gutting her. I won't suggest how to fix them. I just mention them.
1) First of all, they must do something about gen times. At red ranks, if you don't have ruin, it is almost impossible to win the game unless the survivors are potatoes (which is something rare). A good SWF team will destroy you even with ruin.
2) A lot of maps need a rework. They are too big and you can't apply the proper pressure unless they three gen themselves
3) SWF is another problem. They have a huge advantage over any other killer who is not spirit or pre nerf nurse. Billy, ghostface and Freddy can also be viable, but you are forced to camp and slug to have a chance to win.
4) Toolboxes are very strong in a genrushing team, so they need a nerf, too
In conclusion, spirit is the only counter to those issues and MUST NOT get nerfed before addressing them
TL;DR
Gen times, maps, swf teams and toolboxes need to be fixed first, before nerfing spirit
Comments
I'mma just..
bookmarks
Tell me what counters do you have against her, don't mention perks, because having a perk isn't a good counter.
I can’t take a thread seriously that has “salty baby survivors/ killers” in it
Have a look at this thread thread then
And why should I use ruin to counter gen rushing?
Your post could get me tons of ez Reddit Karma. For now it’ll go into my copy pasta folder. Your entitlement is precious.
So Dev’s listen to “salty baby Survivors.”
However your post makes you sound like a salty entitled baby Killer so 🤔.
Guys please comment on the topic. I will remove that phrase.
Look it up
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/95064/lets-list-every-possible-spirit-counterplay-to-help-survivors-counter-her#latest
And why should I be forced to run ruin to counter gen rushing?
Genrushing is the objective it’s something you go against every game so you know what ur going against but spirit is one killer of 17 which makes taking perks just to counter her a matter of luck I currently have a spot in my loadout for iron will just to counter spirit
No I'm on PS4 and comment on the topic please. This has nothing to do with her counters
Good for you. Now read the thread to learn more counters but my thread is not about them
EDIT: Grammar.
Ruin works on all survivors.
Expecting survivors to run iron will every match just in case the killer is spirit without stridor is just as dumb.
Use X perk shouldn't be a counter to anything.
I agree with some of your points but it does not mean that Spirit should get some kind of nerf immunity until those are fixed. It's like saying "insta heals shouldn't have been nerfed since moris are still in the game" it's childish. If a problem crops up, it should be addressed asap and not until other issues are fixed.
No conditions "must" be met actually.
I agree that toolboxes are silly, map reworks are very much desired and something to make matches last longer (preferably not just "more holding m1 on gens" though) would be great though. They will never do anything directly to SWF though, the only realistic option is the whole "buff baseline information, buff killers" thing as they will never apply direct restrictions or handicaps to SWF parties.
Realize that you seem have a more competitive mindset towards the game than the devs and majority of players, I highly doubt you'll see the sort of balance you desire at any point as this isn't a game with esports-style top-down balancing.
100% Agree
If they fix the huge difference in Game Time i would not mind em nerf Spirit and other problematic Killer Addons.
Maybe replace the Toolboxes with Firecrackers (i love em cuz allow counterplay)
Having a Repair Speed Penalty based on rank could help avoid 4 min games at red ranks without hurting new Players.
SWF needs a repair speed penalty for sure (the fact that they save so much time by sharing informations over discord is very strong). Repair Speed Penalty should increase for every additional Member.
1) A for number 1 below
2) A: I'm not sure what to say about this. I mean, I agree with you, but changing all those maps will be a lot of work.
3) A: There's not anything that can really change with SWF. If they remove SWF there will be loads for angry people. So, you just have to accept that you have to play dirty.
4) A: In my opinion, I think that toolboxes are fine, but if they nerf them I won't really care that much. xD
-- Gen rushing/ Spirit issue --
Also, killers have more counters to gen rushing other than just Ruin. You can just down two survivors and then hook them, putting the last two survivors in a bad position. Either one survivor will go for both saves, leaving one person on a gen. Or both survivors will go for a save, with no gen progress at all. Or they will just hide/do gens, which will kill their chances of winning.
(Depending how many gens are done once you do this)
My point is, you don't need to have Ruin run to deal Gen rushing. Ruin is more convenient than slugging or snowballing, but slugging/snowballing are still counters.
On the other end of the spectrum, while Spirit does have counter play, you have to have a perk to counter her to even have a chance. Especially against a good Spirit. And even is you are running perks like IW, SC, Fixated, ect, if the Spirit has Stridor, you're dead.
Plus, not going to lie, it kind of sucks using up a perk slot with a perk like IW just for the off-chance you get a Spirit.
I would be fine if they don't change Spirit's base power at all. The only thing I'd like changed is just make her footsteps louder, make her have a vaulting animation, and make her move grass/corn. This way they aren't changing her base power but are giving survivors a bit more information on where she is while fazing.
A single killer isn't and shouldn't be the solution ot gen times. The two are uncorrelated and this thread is kinda ridiculous.
Are you even able to counter spirit? If yes join @ScottJund kyf lobby and show it, we are all waiting to find out the secret and how well it works.
(little spoiler: won't work)
They do prefer to listen to survivor feedback on killers than vice versa. Sure the game is more balanced... but it's still heavily survivor sided.
I think the main issue people have with spirit is that they don't like stealthing... or trying something other than looping. Not every killer should be countered by a piece of wood or a window... because if they all are, then they can all be looped for 5 gens if need be.
Well... not in my experience dealing with survivors. I love when I can go against a killer that's different than just looping. Pre-rework Nurse was fun to go against (even if omegablink was a bit much), Huntress was fun, Legion has an interesting tactic, and I'm getting good against Spirit now. It's much more engaging for me... but then again I'm different than most. : /
There are ways to tell if she's phasing or not: Her animation will restart, even if it looks jarring, she has footsteps, crows fly away, and she can disturb grass and corn. You just have to know what to look for... and one of the biggest banes for me when playing spirit are flashlights. If you think a spirit is doing that, just shine it at them, and they won't be able to do much for a few seconds, buying you time to get away and hide... which is another weakness of hers. If she doesn't get the jump on you, then you have the advantage...
But then again I'm not a survivor main. : P
Why everyone needs to prove a point to Twitch Streammers? Are they God or something?
Plus Scott June is technically a Spirit main and has played her since her release, he has constantly said he enjoy playing her more but due to her making survivors unable to interact with her he feels bad playing her
I agree, some maps should be made smaller ( Red Forest, Rotten Fields, Mount Ormond ) and some loops should be fixed ( like the ones from Ironworks of Misery, Groaning Storehouse, Wretched Shop, Rancid Abbatoir, Fractured Cowshed, Torment Creek, Disturbed Ward, Grim Pantry ).
Because everyone knows their skill level since transparent + he will record that. Has nothing to do with "God" or whatever nonsense you try to say.
Why doesn't he just write to a few good players like zubat etc and they do 100 games in a row v him?
Just that they have to play optimal and bring best loadouts, really i would like to see how he/they fare(s).
He's a normal player being ironic since he believes that Spirit doesn't have counterplay. I'm so sorry if you can't find your own critical sense
The first paragraph is 10/10.
Anyways, The fact that nobody is giving a proper perk/less counter play to Spirit further proves that she is very obnoxious to fight against and is by no means balanced in the sense that a survivor could use it and be able to skillfully wit a spirit, and that you want to meet conditions before won't help anyone by delaying fixes to an unfun killer. Some are either complex to fix in an acceptable timespan, currently being overlooked or had some, and RNG conditions such as how you require ruin in red ranks to win unless potatoes(which you say is ''rare'' but my solo queues want to have a word with you). Also denying a 'normal player' a live demonstration of this so called balanced killer and easily countered goes to show how strong your argument is.
"Devs prefer to listen to survivors"
Is this really where we are going?
We have gotten changes all across the board, they listen to both killer and survivors, not just one side
I have no clue what you are talking about
people who say this are morons they listen to both sides
You say "be forced to run ruin" in order to win, but why should survivors have to run Iron will or spine chill in order to counter Spirit? Even then, she's most likely to find you due to collision, scratch marks or that add on with the blood trails shown. She's viable in red ranks, but dominates the low ranks, especially if it's a really hardcore spirit player, so..
Spirit is fine, as a survivor rank 8 whom played Vs her many times, she was easy to counter by simply not trolling and know the tricks which is best learnt by being killer main (rank 3) if she stands still at pallet, she is actually moving around, or hoping you think that and try pallet spamming, if she is chasing you and suddenly stops, she is either drastically catching up which you just either stop sprinting and walk behind anything and crouch which then you have successfully escaped the chase but now need to remain hidden whilst being searched for or if the killer expects that uses it to find your spot and get a hit if you mess up as the survivor, she is honestly a mind game, one you can take advantage off or be taken advantage off, "no counter" the counter is literally just a switch in chase tactic to the situation, loop as usual or take advantage of not being seen when she enters the phase realm, she is probably the most balanced killer, for higher ranks, lower ranks that are learning to counter will as usual to any killer, fail, lower ranks are easier as a killer mid ranks are easier for survivors, top ranks are easier for whoever is smarter, which can usually end in survivors favour as killer has to deal with 4 smart players or have a SWF and have 2 new players or standard idiots and 2 smart there is luck for the start aswell and after a hook, example, starting near TR or killer turns the direction you are coming from to unhook someone, that's 2 hooks for pure chance, or start far away and get a free gen cause gens are quick to repair, TLDR spirit is balanced when smart, Devs tend to pander to survivors but not the way die hard killers make out, gens too quick
Bro, they didn't care less about Nurse, and you think they're going to follow your guidelines? For a killer that is top tier and also dunks on survivors with very little effort, compared to Nurse? Goodluck lol. You're trying to justify not nerfing Spirit and telling them to fix the fundamentals like gen time, so they don't nerf Spirit. While I don't disagree that these changes are absolutely necessary, don't pretend like they're attached to Spirit.
1) Gen times are fine. Idk what else to say about it. Idk what you want, it sounds like you don't want survivors to do their objective.
2) Spirits can phase like half way across most maps as it is. So I'm getting that you want her to be able to phase ALL the way across the map thus making her phasing more op? Naw fam. Leave the maps, they ain't got nuthin' to do with Spirit getting a nerf one day. Talk about the Spirit only.
3) Not all SWFs are smart or coordinated. Those that are can still be easily defeated. How about you just... "git good" (cuz I recall you saying that to me when I suggested Spirit tweaks so I will throw it right back).
4) Why is gen rushing even a term? As I said before, are survivors just not supposed to do their objective? "Excuse me, survivor sir, could you wait about 2 minutes before doing a gen? And then wait 2 more before doing another? Thanks." I've started to hear the term "hookrushing" recently because of this. How about let's all sip tea for about a minute before playing the game, think that sounds good.
Couldn't agree more
Honestly I've given up hope of them balancing the game not in favor of survivors but its going to suck so much if they rework spirit before legion(or other low tiers) it's also just going to lead to salty killers face camping and being toxic because of how the odds are stacked against them
Spirit has counterplay... it's just the counterplay a particular group doesnt want... here on console she is queen but I've yet to find a console pleb that doesn't enjoy going against her.
I will never like going against spirit don't care if you tell me to get good I'll never find it fun
Nah.
Don't listen to the bad apples not all Killer Player's like spirit and most would agree she could use a slight nerf.
Tell me what counters do you have against Keys, don’t mention perks, because having a perk isn’t a good counter.
They can be found in matches, they don’t have to be brought in.
How about Spirits having to run Stridor to counter Iron Will?
Double standards and there’s 4 of you vs 1.
Never said git gud... I stated she has counterplay and that its counterplay that a particular group doesnt like.... this particular group would rather her be a lighthouse while shes using her power or have a giant sign above her head saying "I'm using power guys!!" And then because that doesnt affect her MS or charge times they think this isnt a nerf....
The 4 “problems” you brought up are a complete non sequitur to the complaints about Spirit. Also, if you’re having problems applying pressure because maps are too big and gens go too fast AS A SPIRIT MAIN, maybe it’s time to take some of your own advice and “learn the counters”.
alot of people dont understand this. this isnt leauge i cant see what they have and change my loadout accordingly. saying you need 1 perk for a chance u vs a certain killer is just stupid
I hope the don’t change the phasing through windows as I find it one of the most fun and interesting parts of her kit to play against, and makes total sense with her being a ghost.
I can get behind some of those other suggestions though!
It felt weird to me when playing her that as a ghost she can’t move through survivors; I would either keep the collision but make her affect things like grass, or preferably remove collision but she doesn’t move grass; I would much prefer the latter personally.
I don't see much value in the ectoplasm idea personally but if it helps some people out that’s fine; it totally fits as a ghost and I can’t see it affecting her much if it doesn’t show up until after she reappears.
Most people I've conversed with want more indication of her using her power... which tells me that they want the sparkle on her husk again... or something of that sort...
It is still in her husk it was reintroduced with bug and never removed.
In the mean while I'm getting more hate mail for playing as a toxic leatherface because it's easy and I don't care about popping. Who do we fix first?
Cool, well, I'm playing mostly Plague and Pig without add ons in the red ranks and not really having an issue.
Spirit is not "the only counter" to issues, she's just one of the strongest, easiest killers.
I really do love to see how people sit back and then as soon as their main killer is the one being looked at it's armageddon.