Just because swf can run into your lobby (you can't tell anymore either, bc of dedicated servers) and do your gens in 4 mins record time despite you doing only like 2-3 Chase's that weren't even very long, doesn't make strong killers fair.
Because Spirit is something in the game and SWF is a game mode in the game that involves external factors you can't really touch. It's not the same thing.
Not even hardcore esports-focused games do more than restrict party sizes depending on game modes, I've never heard of a game that applies restrictions or penalties to people playing in parties. Hell, many games encourage it with XP bonuses and whatnot.
Because Spirit is something in the game and SWF is a game mode in the game that involves external factors you can't really touch. It's not the same thing.
Not even hardcore esports-focused games do more than restrict party sizes depending on game modes, I've never heard of a game that applies restrictions or penalties to people playing in parties. Hell, many games encourage it with XP bonuses and whatnot.
No, because other games allow that sort of external factors for both teams and most go out of their way to match such teams together, so that there is no difference in external factors.
It's not that those killers are strong it's the rest of the roster being too weak
Some are, like Legion, Clown or Leatherface. But again, this game has a bigger ballance problem then that.
On this forum, Killer want the game ballanced for SWF. If they buff every killer that they can compete with SWF, Soloplayers would get destroyed all the time.
Exactly, where is the importance in balancing when certain imbalances just get a free pass?
While I agree they can definitely cause an imbalance. What do you propose they do? They can't get rid of it. I don't see what they can do to deal with that imbalance.
Some are, like Legion, Clown or Leatherface. But again, this game has a bigger ballance problem then that.
On this forum, Killer want the game ballanced for SWF. If they buff every killer that they can compete with SWF, Soloplayers would get destroyed all the time.
Thats definitly not the correct approach.
I personally want the game to be balanced around veteran survivors because everyone eventually gets out of their noob phase swf is a problem but an experienced swf I'm pretty sure people are talking about and also good solo survivors exist let's not forget about them
You have to nerf swf or genrush will never be fixed.
Survive with Friends isn't to blame for generator rushing though. It being the only survivor objective, killers who don't have tremendously great map pressure built into their kits, multiple toolboxes, etc, etc.
That's the problem causing "gen rush." A total group of 4 random solo survivors can pop out a crazy amount of generators if they're all good survivors too. It's not a ''Ugh. They're playing with friends" thing at all.
And again. You can't nerf playing with friends. There's physically no way that doesn't kill the game. If you give point deductions to playing with friends. You piss off playerbase.
If you give killers extra bloodpoints for playing against friends playing together? It's nothing more than a participation trophy really which is probably why you don't see it being implemented.
Devs can't do anything about something that every multiplayer game needs to thrive.
They can do ######### about unfun game mechanics though. They can give killers that are weak in map pressure more map pressure somehow. They can nerf toolboxes. They add on to the survivor objectives, etc.
Genrush is not real. Made up term from killer mains.
Freddy is broken.
Billy could use a adjustment.
Instasaw billy is broken, but most don't run it and billy himself is fine. The devs even say so...please dont whine and get one of the more fun killers to play vs nerfed...
Freddy has a loaded kit; forever freddy should not be a thing on top of him having spirit level of 'mindgame' built into him. (that is to say, the game does the mindgaming for the player)
Genrush is not real. Made up term from killer mains.
Freddy is broken.
Billy could use a adjustment.
Neither of those killers need nerfs, billy can still be looped and as for Freddy, his slowdown isn’t very good if you camp pallets. Just loop if he uses fake pallets.
Survive With Friends is just....something every multiplayer game has. People like to play with friends.
You can't NERF playing with friends, but you can nerf a character that has unfun mechanics.
I'm not saying that you should, but theoretically speaking you absolutely could nerf SWF. Penalties for friends teaming up is a thing you could hypothetically do (though again, I'm not necessarily saying that should happen).
I'm not saying that you should, but theoretically speaking you absolutely could nerf SWF. Penalties for friends teaming up is a thing you could hypothetically do (though again, I'm not necessarily saying that should happen).
There shouldn't be a penalty in ANY multiplayer game for playing with friends, I know you're not suggesting it, but the very idea of it even being considered is laughable when other games in fact REWARD you with extra points for doing so (Overwatch, etc).
There shouldn't be a penalty in ANY multiplayer game for playing with friends, I know you're not suggesting it, but the very idea of it even being considered is laughable when other games in fact REWARD you with extra points for doing so (Overwatch, etc).
This is one of those times where "DBD is different" actually could be considered a legit counterpoint because unlike a game like Overwatch, DBD is designed where only one side has access to such a luxury (Survivors), and said luxury does provide a significant benefit to those who take advantage of it.
No, because other games allow that sort of external factors for both teams and most go out of their way to match such teams together, so that there is no difference in external factors.
That is a very good point that I genuinely didn't think of.
Still though, I don't see the devs ever specifically apply any sort of restrictions, handicaps or nerfs to SWF itself. It'd be survivor changes and killer changes in general to try to make the difference less extreme. I don't really know what else they'd do that's realistic whatsoever.
This is one of those times where "DBD is different" actually could be considered a legit counterpoint because unlike a game like Overwatch, DBD is designed where only one side has access to such a luxury (Survivors), and said luxury does provide a significant benefit to those who take advantage of it.
Lol. The sheer fact is it'll never happen, if it did. You wouldn't have a game to play because it would die of, and the fact of the matter is nine times out of ten, an SWF isn't even relaying game changing info to one another. Most of the time? They're just a group of friends playing a game, goofing off and talking about things other than the game itself.
Punishing them for that? Drives people away from Dead by Daylight and ultimately kills the game.
Neither of those killers need nerfs, billy can still be looped and as for Freddy, his slowdown isn’t very good if you camp pallets. Just loop if he uses fake pallets.
Endlessly throwing down traps and fake pallets is broken. Give it a cooldown or unable to place a new one when all is out (also reduce max number of traps/pallets)
Global teleport is too strong (limit range or make it so u cant cancel when u use it)
No terror radius is too strong.
I can go on but nvm, thsi is just a small sample of how too strong freddy is
There shouldn't be a penalty in ANY multiplayer game for playing with friends, I know you're not suggesting it, but the very idea of it even being considered is laughable when other games in fact REWARD you with extra points for doing so (Overwatch, etc).
Well than killer and survs should get more bps for swf. Killer should also see how many is in an swf.
Lol. The sheer fact is it'll never happen, if it did. You wouldn't have a game to play because it would die of, and the fact of the matter is nine times out of ten, an SWF isn't even relaying game changing info to one another. Most of the time? They're just a group of friends playing a game, goofing off and talking about things other than the game itself.
Punishing them for that? Drives people away from Dead by Daylight and ultimately kills the game.
Do you have anything to back up any of what you said, or is this all assumption?
Endlessly throwing down traps and fake pallets is broken. Give it a cooldown or unable to place a new one when all is out (also reduce max number of traps/pallets)
Global teleport is too strong (limit range or make it so u cant cancel when u use it)
No terror radius is too strong.
I can go on but nvm, thsi is just a small sample of how too strong freddy is
Do you have anything to back up any of what you said, or is this all assumption?
You don't need proof to know this to be true.
You just need common sense.
Imagine a game saying ''You are being punished for playing with your friends. Less points for you then!"
Imagine what the human reaction to that will be? It'll be ''Well, I'll just go play another game." and eventually you've widdled down a signficant chunk of the playerbase and lobbies will take far longer than they already do to acquire.
People will get tired of waiting longer to play survivor solo, they'll quite. Killers won't be able to fill lobbies, so they'll quit.
Congratulations Dead by Daylight is dead because ''Playing with your friends is unfair."
Imagine a game saying ''You are being punished for playing with your friends. Less points for you then!"
Imagine what the human reaction to that will be? It'll be ''Well, I'll just go play another game." and eventually you've widdled down a signficant chunk of the playerbase and lobbies will take far longer than they already do to acquire.
People will get tired of waiting longer to play survivor solo, they'll quite. Killers won't be able to fill lobbies, so they'll quit.
Congratulations Dead by Daylight is dead because ''Playing with your friends is unfair."
So what you are saying is that you are just making an assumption.
That's a really good point. Killers should get increased movment speed based on how many players are in a group. 2 guys together? 5% bonus. 4? 15% bonus. This would make chases end more quickly. But their friend(s) would be working on gens, so it would balance out.
So what you are saying is that you are just making an assumption.
It's not even an assumption really. It's common sense. Players aren't going to like to be penalized for playing a game with friends. No game in the history of ever has done this to people.
And you know why? It's bad business practice for the developers behind the game and turns away a potential audience.
Your bias towards/against SWF is clouding your judgement. It's not me making assumptions. It's you assuming that the game would be peachy keen and fine when in reality everything that is logical says it would die agonizingly over the remaining months if they were ever to do such a thing.
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Comments
Because SWF just wanna "have fun" and Spirit ruins that fun.
I don't... really think justifying one imbalanced thing with another is a very good argument either way, pal. Assuming either of them are.
SWF has to somehow get nerfed a bit. And so is Spirit. Same with keys, red moris, op addons like Prayer beads etc...
Why cant players accept, that ballancing is important?
Well, we just must be baby killers.
Just because swf can run into your lobby (you can't tell anymore either, bc of dedicated servers) and do your gens in 4 mins record time despite you doing only like 2-3 Chase's that weren't even very long, doesn't make strong killers fair.
they aren't gonna nerf the ability to play with friends in a video game accept that
Exactly, where is the importance in balancing when certain imbalances just get a free pass?
They are not? Never heard of that tbh. Do you have a source of that information? If so, please show us.
I'm saying that in reply for you saying swf has to get somehow Nerfed a bit
Because Spirit is something in the game and SWF is a game mode in the game that involves external factors you can't really touch. It's not the same thing.
Not even hardcore esports-focused games do more than restrict party sizes depending on game modes, I've never heard of a game that applies restrictions or penalties to people playing in parties. Hell, many games encourage it with XP bonuses and whatnot.
You made a clear statement, as it is a fact they wont nerf SWF.
Yes they have to, since 3/4 man groups are to powerful. There are definitly ways to nerf SWF.
The game has some ballance issues, and this is one part of it. Same with Killers like Nurse (still) and Spirt, they are simply to strong.
Am i wrong here or what?
No, because other games allow that sort of external factors for both teams and most go out of their way to match such teams together, so that there is no difference in external factors.
Yes. You are wrong.
The devs have said before that they are not nerfing or getting rid of swf.
They have said that they would like to bring solo players up to swf bit haven't really done anything to acheive that.
Also, they just need to buff killers and rework most of the maps. If they did this then they could leave swf and it would still be a win to killers.
Interesting, never heard of that. Link us a source please.
But if they said that, they should definitly rethink their plan, or they will never achieve a ballanced game.
Anyway, does not matter if they said it or not, i am still right here. SWF is 2 powerful and so is Spirit. You really wanna discuss that?
SWF is a matchmaking service, Spirit is a bundle of game mechanics.
They're not even remotely the same and you have to be beyond reason to even pretend that they are.
If they wanna buff killers to be able to deal with swf, then Spirit is the best balancing ground since she's perfect for that. Ironic
It's not that those killers are strong it's the rest of the roster being too weak
Spirit is game mechanics gone wrong.
Survive With Friends is just....something every multiplayer game has. People like to play with friends.
You can't NERF playing with friends, but you can nerf a character that has unfun mechanics.
Some are, like Legion, Clown or Leatherface. But again, this game has a bigger ballance problem then that.
On this forum, Killer want the game ballanced for SWF. If they buff every killer that they can compete with SWF, Soloplayers would get destroyed all the time.
Thats definitly not the correct approach.
While I agree they can definitely cause an imbalance. What do you propose they do? They can't get rid of it. I don't see what they can do to deal with that imbalance.
You have to nerf swf or genrush will never be fixed.
What if I like swf and spirit?
I personally want the game to be balanced around veteran survivors because everyone eventually gets out of their noob phase swf is a problem but an experienced swf I'm pretty sure people are talking about and also good solo survivors exist let's not forget about them
I am Groot Senpai
"You can't play with friends if i can't use a broken killer"
See how that argument falls flat ?
Survive with Friends isn't to blame for generator rushing though. It being the only survivor objective, killers who don't have tremendously great map pressure built into their kits, multiple toolboxes, etc, etc.
That's the problem causing "gen rush." A total group of 4 random solo survivors can pop out a crazy amount of generators if they're all good survivors too. It's not a ''Ugh. They're playing with friends" thing at all.
And again. You can't nerf playing with friends. There's physically no way that doesn't kill the game. If you give point deductions to playing with friends. You piss off playerbase.
If you give killers extra bloodpoints for playing against friends playing together? It's nothing more than a participation trophy really which is probably why you don't see it being implemented.
Devs can't do anything about something that every multiplayer game needs to thrive.
They can do ######### about unfun game mechanics though. They can give killers that are weak in map pressure more map pressure somehow. They can nerf toolboxes. They add on to the survivor objectives, etc.
Nope. Your friends can easily genrush.
By "genrush" you mean play the objective for a chance at escaping the trial.
No such thing as genrush, but broken killers we have a few off.
Genrush is real, yes it's your only objective but you can do it in 4 minutes even if the killer is good. That isn't fair.
And the only broken killer is Spirit. Nobody needs nerfs after that, just buffs.
Only time I care about SWF is when I somehow queue up against a 4 stack of rank 1-3's as a rank 11 killer, as an instant queue, as well.
Meanwhile as survivor I can queue up for half an hour and get my rank killer every time, both swf or solo. lmao.
Genrush is not real. Made up term from killer mains.
Freddy is broken.
Billy could use a adjustment.
Instasaw billy is broken, but most don't run it and billy himself is fine. The devs even say so...please dont whine and get one of the more fun killers to play vs nerfed...
Freddy has a loaded kit; forever freddy should not be a thing on top of him having spirit level of 'mindgame' built into him. (that is to say, the game does the mindgaming for the player)
Maybe i get you wrong here but you really want to have a broken killer to fix something else that is also broken (in that case generator speed)?
If thats the case, i can not disagree more.
Neither of those killers need nerfs, billy can still be looped and as for Freddy, his slowdown isn’t very good if you camp pallets. Just loop if he uses fake pallets.
I'm not saying that you should, but theoretically speaking you absolutely could nerf SWF. Penalties for friends teaming up is a thing you could hypothetically do (though again, I'm not necessarily saying that should happen).
Also, wake up against pallet Freddy and try to remember which pallets aren’t real. :)
Fwiw I don't think they need to nerf spirit.
Yeah he literally is like Clown, throw pallets early, camp pallets, wake up.
He's not super hard to face and Forever Freddy adds a STAGGERING ~12-16 seconds to a gen LMFAO.
I think @jeyers should keep practicing. Like we all need to do.
There shouldn't be a penalty in ANY multiplayer game for playing with friends, I know you're not suggesting it, but the very idea of it even being considered is laughable when other games in fact REWARD you with extra points for doing so (Overwatch, etc).
This is one of those times where "DBD is different" actually could be considered a legit counterpoint because unlike a game like Overwatch, DBD is designed where only one side has access to such a luxury (Survivors), and said luxury does provide a significant benefit to those who take advantage of it.
By that logic Spirit players just want to have fun.
This is an argument that will continue to go round in full circles.
That is a very good point that I genuinely didn't think of.
Still though, I don't see the devs ever specifically apply any sort of restrictions, handicaps or nerfs to SWF itself. It'd be survivor changes and killer changes in general to try to make the difference less extreme. I don't really know what else they'd do that's realistic whatsoever.
https://youtu.be/aMRKm7Jz-08
Lol. The sheer fact is it'll never happen, if it did. You wouldn't have a game to play because it would die of, and the fact of the matter is nine times out of ten, an SWF isn't even relaying game changing info to one another. Most of the time? They're just a group of friends playing a game, goofing off and talking about things other than the game itself.
Punishing them for that? Drives people away from Dead by Daylight and ultimately kills the game.
Endlessly throwing down traps and fake pallets is broken. Give it a cooldown or unable to place a new one when all is out (also reduce max number of traps/pallets)
Global teleport is too strong (limit range or make it so u cant cancel when u use it)
No terror radius is too strong.
I can go on but nvm, thsi is just a small sample of how too strong freddy is
Well than killer and survs should get more bps for swf. Killer should also see how many is in an swf.
Do you have anything to back up any of what you said, or is this all assumption?
All those things are fine though
You don't need proof to know this to be true.
You just need common sense.
Imagine a game saying ''You are being punished for playing with your friends. Less points for you then!"
Imagine what the human reaction to that will be? It'll be ''Well, I'll just go play another game." and eventually you've widdled down a signficant chunk of the playerbase and lobbies will take far longer than they already do to acquire.
People will get tired of waiting longer to play survivor solo, they'll quite. Killers won't be able to fill lobbies, so they'll quit.
Congratulations Dead by Daylight is dead because ''Playing with your friends is unfair."
So what you are saying is that you are just making an assumption.
That's a really good point. Killers should get increased movment speed based on how many players are in a group. 2 guys together? 5% bonus. 4? 15% bonus. This would make chases end more quickly. But their friend(s) would be working on gens, so it would balance out.
It's not even an assumption really. It's common sense. Players aren't going to like to be penalized for playing a game with friends. No game in the history of ever has done this to people.
And you know why? It's bad business practice for the developers behind the game and turns away a potential audience.
Your bias towards/against SWF is clouding your judgement. It's not me making assumptions. It's you assuming that the game would be peachy keen and fine when in reality everything that is logical says it would die agonizingly over the remaining months if they were ever to do such a thing.