alienschmalien
alienschmalien
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Oh and map offerings. Get rid of them. Let RNG decide where we are going through and through. A map can legit change the course of a game depending on who you are, what you are running, etc.
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One shots in general.
Toolboxes
Strong unfair loops.
Camping
Tunnelling
Bad Manners on Both Sides (Teabagging, head or body shaking at hooks.)
Moris
Turn on and off terror radius (It's a mechanic that gets abused and just isn't all that fun to begin with. Myers excluded since he only has no terror radius in one tier)
Spirit in general.
Flashlight save squads.
Generators popping left an right and you can't do ######### no matter what killer you really are.
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It depends. They have the Shrine, so they're not as bad at pay to win, but a lot of the top meta perks for both sides are still locked behind a pay wall.
RNG is another factor all together though.
This is why I always kind of balk at ''DbD is a skillful game." Perks play too much factor, RNG plays too much factor on how your match will go, etc.
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My favorite thing other than ''I am standing on the ground on this side of this window and you are all the way over there." hit is when a killer's lunge magically makes them able to hit you before you can even drop the pallet down even though you have clearly hit the button to throw the pallet down because you are twitching on the floor like a maniac hits I've been running into lately.
It literally makes me imagine that the killer is one of those slow motion montages with this music playing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY3XiM7oGj0It's ridiculous.
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This game isn't even at a place where I'd say either side is favored at the moment. I'd say it's at the messiest it's ever been for both sides and that's part of the reason why both sides find themselves having long lobby queues.
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Games are fun.
Now fun is subjective, but the majority of the problem with DbD is that everyone has subscribed to ''Winning is fun."
''I have to get the hatch/exit gate."
''I have to 4k every game!"
Etc, etc.
Everyone is so subscribed to the sweat and the competitiveness in a game that has ######### in it that really should make it no less casual than Mario Kart or Smash Brothers.
It's why with every patch the game gets more and more of an identity crisis. The devs don't know which side to pick ''DbD is casual." or ''DbD is competitive."
Honestly the game just needs to be considered a loss in the coming months and move on to a fresh start with Dead by Daylight 2 or something. They're never gonna fix this game's core issues that makes the playerbase DC on one another, things that make people feel like losing is unfun, etc, etc.
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This is gonna cause a ######### storm but here goes.
''Fun" shoul be the main taken into account for both sides. Not ''Is it strong?" ''Will it win them the game?" ''Will this etc?"
That's the reason DCs are at an all time high for Dead by Daylight. Back when the game was relatively coming into it's stride with Doctor, Huntress, etc releases? The complaints were prominently about Nurse on the survivor side and escape and exhaustion perks on killer side.
Both have been nerfed touched now, so you think both sides would stop dcing right?
Here's my theory. DCs are at an all time high for both sides because:
- The game is stale. The meta is never shaken. Variety has went out the window
- Survivor items are still too strong in groups of 4. Multiple toolboxes, medkits and flashlights all can ruin a killer's game and vibe.
- Perk combinations have gotten insane to the point they make the game a chore for either side to combat.
- Killer powers have gone from ''special and different" to less variety. Examples: 3 projectiles that all haver their own issues (Huntress hitboxes, vision blur on Clown's gas, pray and spray on Plague), too many one shots (back in the day there was literally Billy and Myers. Now we have so many add ons and powers that are ultimately one shots), end a chase faster than you really should, too many terror radiuses that can be shut on and off, etc
- Half the mechanics for these powers are flawed and not fully thought out (the counter to Plague is pretty much going to destroy anyone who doesn't know how to even somewhat loop, Ghostface's mileage on revealing him varies, Spirit gives you virtually no information)
- Killers that still can have their powers taken away too easily (Demo's tunnels, Ghostface when it works, Trapper in general.)
- Spirit. She gets her own tab, sorry Spirit mains.
- Generator speed and generator stalling perk band aids to fix the issue.
- Moris, tunneling, camping.
- Other band manners on both sides. (Teabagging, hook smacking, body blocking)
- Getting punished by tunneling perks when you didn't really tunnel because the timer is too long.
- Bad map design for both old and new maps. Old maps are practically killer hell most of the time. New maps are survivor and killer hell. Too many pallets, most weak and useless unless you get a stun.
- Rewarded too heavily for playing with friends as survivor, punished as a solo survivor.
I could keep going but really the DC problem boils down to nothing more than devs didn't balance the game right and still aren't on the right track even if they think so.
The game has an identity crisis all over it currently. It can't decide through it's add ons and powers and perks if it wants to be a casual experience or a competitive one. It needs to be balanced one way or another. Not somewhere in the middle.
As it stands DbD is dangerously close to losing it's ''fun" appeal for many hence why so many DCes and complaints, etc.
The bad thing? I don't even know how they fix it.
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Also everyone saying that half the time you don't even/forget to pay attention to it as killer is a big ass mood.
I've probably lost games/kills easily because I just could've gotten great information from it and you know totally didn't get it from not paying attention to it.
The perk is fine. There are far worse killer and survivor perks out there that need looked at.
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BBQ does hold hands a bit, but it's far from problematic. Run a different direction, get in a locker, hide behind the generator, you know....just leave your area after it's duration hence more than likely the killer isn't gonna be close enough to immediately get to you.
Not to mention your suggestion is just frankly turning it into a tunneling perk.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807889#Comment_807889
No, it is an assumption. You aren't supporting this claim with anything demonstrable or whatnot; you are just declaring it to probably be true and expecting that to actually be the case.
Bud the reason there's no ''evidence" is because it's such a stupid idea that all game developers know it'd kill a game. There's no evidence because no one has been dumb enough to say ''You are hereby punished for enjoying a pastime with your friend."
I'm sorry you so desperately want this to be just a baseless assumption, but it's really not. It's just straight up damn common sense. Games will never punish people for playing with friends, because games are made to make money. Not alienate players.
Alienating players is the fastest way to end your game's livelyhood and there's more than enough known instances of that that we'd be here all night listing them. It just so happens no company has been idiotic enough to say ''Friends bad. Don't bring them." like you apparently want BHVR too.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807837#Comment_807837
So what you are saying is that you are just making an assumption.
It's not even an assumption really. It's common sense. Players aren't going to like to be penalized for playing a game with friends. No game in the history of ever has done this to people.
And you know why? It's bad business practice for the developers behind the game and turns away a potential audience.
Your bias towards/against SWF is clouding your judgement. It's not me making assumptions. It's you assuming that the game would be peachy keen and fine when in reality everything that is logical says it would die agonizingly over the remaining months if they were ever to do such a thing.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807070#Comment_807070
Do you have anything to back up any of what you said, or is this all assumption?
You don't need proof to know this to be true.
You just need common sense.
Imagine a game saying ''You are being punished for playing with your friends. Less points for you then!"
Imagine what the human reaction to that will be? It'll be ''Well, I'll just go play another game." and eventually you've widdled down a signficant chunk of the playerbase and lobbies will take far longer than they already do to acquire.
People will get tired of waiting longer to play survivor solo, they'll quite. Killers won't be able to fill lobbies, so they'll quit.
Congratulations Dead by Daylight is dead because ''Playing with your friends is unfair."
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/807010#Comment_807010
This is one of those times where "DBD is different" actually could be considered a legit counterpoint because unlike a game like Overwatch, DBD is designed where only one side has access to such a luxury (Survivors), and said luxury does provide a significant benefit to those who take advantage of it.
Lol. The sheer fact is it'll never happen, if it did. You wouldn't have a game to play because it would die of, and the fact of the matter is nine times out of ten, an SWF isn't even relaying game changing info to one another. Most of the time? They're just a group of friends playing a game, goofing off and talking about things other than the game itself.
Punishing them for that? Drives people away from Dead by Daylight and ultimately kills the game.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/806935#Comment_806935
I'm not saying that you should, but theoretically speaking you absolutely could nerf SWF. Penalties for friends teaming up is a thing you could hypothetically do (though again, I'm not necessarily saying that should happen).
There shouldn't be a penalty in ANY multiplayer game for playing with friends, I know you're not suggesting it, but the very idea of it even being considered is laughable when other games in fact REWARD you with extra points for doing so (Overwatch, etc).
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/806935#Comment_806935
You have to nerf swf or genrush will never be fixed.
Survive with Friends isn't to blame for generator rushing though. It being the only survivor objective, killers who don't have tremendously great map pressure built into their kits, multiple toolboxes, etc, etc.
That's the problem causing "gen rush." A total group of 4 random solo survivors can pop out a crazy amount of generators if they're all good survivors too. It's not a ''Ugh. They're playing with friends" thing at all.
And again. You can't nerf playing with friends. There's physically no way that doesn't kill the game. If you give point deductions to playing with friends. You piss off playerbase.
If you give killers extra bloodpoints for playing against friends playing together? It's nothing more than a participation trophy really which is probably why you don't see it being implemented.
Devs can't do anything about something that every multiplayer game needs to thrive.
They can do ######### about unfun game mechanics though. They can give killers that are weak in map pressure more map pressure somehow. They can nerf toolboxes. They add on to the survivor objectives, etc.
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Spirit is game mechanics gone wrong.
Survive With Friends is just....something every multiplayer game has. People like to play with friends.
You can't NERF playing with friends, but you can nerf a character that has unfun mechanics.
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I love how everyone comes out of the woodwork to say the exact opposite in every thread you create on this forum as if you're the problem and not a problem with the game. 🙄
Sure you all magically get games faster, sure you do, Jan.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/101011/ps4-lobbies-lately
Odd I haven't had killer lobbies this fast in ages I get them near instantly at green ranks currently on ps4. Actually happy I can rank up.
Green ranks is usually always fast though.
I'm currently sitting at I think rank 9 as killer and can't get a lobby this morning at all. Can barely get a survivor lobby. Got into one. Exposed twice by Ghostface in a scenario where he shouldn't have been able to because it connected me to a killer on the planet Jupiter and I'd rather not go wait back to searching for a match and at least ATTEMPT to play the game I paid for.
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It also seems like the 200 ping lobbies are always against killers that are the absolute WORSE to have high latency against too.
''Trying to hide from one of the stalky bois so they can't stalk you/expose you. TOO BAD. YOU JUMP OUT BECAUSE OF LAG AND YOU'RE DEAD NOW. K."
Ghostface especially is annoying as ######### against high ping, you end up getting exposed far too easily because even if you're looking at him directly the game's not registering that you are because of the damn ping.
Or you end up getting hit from suspect hatchet throws or a killer animation that looks like they've already wiffed and are about to reset stance. Truly exhausting and makes the game intolerable.
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@cipherbay_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/100644/borrowed-time-should-be-base-survivor-kit
So you want the killer to be punished for other survivors mistakes? Great....
Maybe you should be punished though for trying to rush through the game as fast as possible. It's sort of funny that a lot of just straight up killer mains who play the game only as killer and complain about the generator rush?
Don't realize it's equally as ######### boring for a killer to rush through killing everyone by tunneling, camping, or overly slugging. ESPECIALLY if they aren't even that good at the game and you end up slugged on the ground for literal minutes.
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@PigNRun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/804192#Comment_804192
How about we remove BT and just merge WGLF with Well Make It.
Nope. Removing BT isn't the answer. It's far more crucial than either of these perks. We'll Make It isn't gonna mean ######### in a case of ''I got unhooked in front of a killer."
Now if you changed We'll Make It so it worked like Second Wind? Maybe.....but then you just make Second Wind useless or more useless than it already is.
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@HatCreature said:
Instead of answering like a Killer, I will answer like a player, BHVR would never give solutions to the game's problems into the base kit, they will always sell fixes to our problems through perks.
We had a huge infestation of body blocking and then bam, Mad Grit was invented. Gens going too fast guys? Hex: Ruin. Oh all your hooks are being sabotaged? Well here is Hangman's Trick. Oh are Killers tunneling? Here is Borrowed Time. Your friends leaving to die and get one hooked? Here is Deliverance. Is the Killer still tunneling? Here is Babysitter and a rework of D-Strike. You want to dodge hatchets and killer attacks? Well here's Dead Hard.
They will always sell the solutions to our problems.
And this is my least favorite thing about them. They band aid EVERYTHING.
That and a lot of the strong band aids literally make the game pay to win in some ratios. Like some of the information perks in paid DLC are insane, some of the generator stalling perks are insane. It's actually really quite ######### up when you stop and think about it.
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@YaiPa said:
Actually if this happens in red ranks, the killer is the real dumb person, since he doesn't even know how much is risking...
It's not a case of camping killers. It's a case of killers who've either went away and come back usually to check up, but they still unhook anyway.
Or someone so altrustic they don't even give them time to get three steps away before they've pulled you off.
It's hardly ever the killer's fault and more of a dumb survivor play.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Now there is the one where she hangs her pink wig on hook after the is taken by the entity. 😂
That's not just her. The Entity is routinely snatching wigs up in this joint. I'm starting to think she's a Drag Queen and adding to her collection or something.
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Honestly?
Get rid of all generator stalling perks or change them to do something else. Get rid of every single one.
Focus hard on making the generator objective different enough that people don't feel the need to dedicate 3 out of their 4 perks to slowing down the only survivor object.
Because the only survivor objective is boring and stale to do as survivors already, but when you've got a killer running Ruin/Pop/Corrupt/Dying Light/etc or any combo of them?
The game gets sooooo boring as a survivor. Bonus points if it's Freddy with any of his slowdown add ons.
Instead of all these band aids? Just fix the problem at base level. They can do it, I just don't think they know HOW.
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The same people who tell people to shut up and stop whining about being camped or tunneled are the same people who will turn around and complain about generators popping left or right and it ruining their fun.
Honestly. NEITHER is fun, but I will say here's the huge difference. The answers that survivors have to tunneling and caming? Nowhere as numerous as the amount of ''Shut those things down" killers have for generators now.
A good Pig can stall a game with her RBTs, a Freddy with a forever build. Just the perks Ruin, Pop, Discordance, Survelliance, Corrupt, even to a degree Thrilling Tremors can tell you where to go to pressure your generators.
Survivors have maybe two good perks that counter tunneling and hard camping and a smart killer is just gonna slug you with decisive anyways these days.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/798969#Comment_798969
Sorry but standing still is a Mind Game for Spirit. That's how her power and design works.
It's like how Doctor can find you just by standing still doing nothing but twiddling his thumbs.
Standing still is ONLY a mind game for her because her kit for revealing when she's in a power is so busted because of phassive phasing.
So no. It's really not. It's more again a handheld thing where she gives you an easy and totally not skillful way to win a chase.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/798990#Comment_798990
and very few killers can put these loops in their favor. Saying the spirit isn’t a kind game is the cheap way of saying “if I can’t just loop the killer is OP.”
No, saying Spirit isn't a mindgame. That's saying she's isn't a mindgame.
She's a handholder that requires you not learn a single mindgame or skill that it would take any other killer than Nurse to counter at a loop.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/798969#Comment_798969
Running around a near infinite loops, if time “being good at chases.”
Lol. The fact you equate this with mindgames makes me think you have no idea what they even really are further. Being good at looping isn't super hard. It's the way to stop the loops that takes skill or have the loop in your favor rather.
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@chase131119 said:
"Mindgames"
Don't you know holding your power button or standing still is a mind game? Big mind games.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfslY_AvhLw
It's probably just a bug though. Calm down.
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Everyone has a right to voice a negative opinion. They delayed this event and new features due to unforseen circumstances, bugs that they needed to fix.
They then released an event and feature that immediately become unusable moments after it launched.
You delayed something to fix it to make it perfect....then released it....with something that eventually made it all pointless to start with.
K then.
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Spirit obviously.
Then Hag. Mainly for the fact she's practically ''Go ahead child. You can camp and down another survivor at the same time."
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791094#Comment_791094
If you know the counterplay to billy as survivor he's weak. If i hear a chainsaw at the beginning of my games, i know i'm gonna escape for sure.
Billy is far from weak. You're just going against ######### Hillbillys. The guy is still top 3 for a reason.
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I love how many times I've been called a crybaby and I've not attackd anyone with name calling and moderators still let it slide because I have a difference of opinion.
I called you a Spirit main? That's not really offensive.
You repeatedly calling me crybaby and #########? That's just trying to come for someone.
And that's why I'm just gonna let the thread roll by now and leave ya'll be.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791105#Comment_791105
So all these people telling you that she has counters and she doesn't need a nerf, are wrong and you are right?
The funny thing is I've listed off her counters, but you don't seem to notice that.
A lot of them? Perk based. That's stupid. You shouldn't have to run perks to counter someone. Granted her two perks help against a handful of killers, but at the end of the day even a good Spirit player isn't gonna give a ######### about your Iron Will or your Spine Chill.
She's gonna have her headset on and she's gonna listen for your footsteps and the chase is over.
Simply put her counters that exist now are too weak or band aid perks (like most counters in this game lately for both sides) or simply ineffective against anyone who has any kind of brain playing her.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791092#Comment_791092
You're advocating for giving up against a killer because they're unfun to face. You're basically advocating for the equivalent of DCing.
You're one of those people that don't see that punishing DCing would do nothing but cause people to kill themselves on hook aren't you?
If anyone is advocating that someone should DC it almost sounds like you say I should just DC as soon as I load in against Spirit. At least this way. The Spirit player? Gets some points.
This is not the same as DCing. People giving up on hooks is not the same as DCing. That's a reach. It's just them getting to a hopefully more fun match for them. Nothing more nothing less.
DCing is a problem that needs to be fixed. You shouldn't be able to DC because ''Welp ruin broke instantly, ugh, they're blending. Ugh, the killer is Spirit, ugh, I got downed first, etc, etc."
And considering the amount of times a 3 man survivor team can still pull off enough to at least pip up in a match or get decent amount of points. Me potentially just not giving a damn in a match against 1 out of the many killerst his game offers isn't really that big of a deal.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791083#Comment_791083
Just say that you want her to be able to be looped for five gens
🙄 Bud, seriously? It's not about the inability to loop her, none of this has remotely been me saying ''She's got to be so weak that she should cry as soon as she loads into the match!"
But I really don't expect you of all users to get that. You more than anyone spend time defending her in every single post that comes up about how she needs a rework. Which there are countless threads.....daily.
The pattern does not lie.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791005#Comment_791005
But you know that the survivor is supposed to loose the chase at some point?
I mean survivors shouldn't be able to run a killer for five gens. Every killer should be as challenging as spirit.
God no. Every killer should be as challenging as a good Hillbilly. He's the perfect balance for a strong killer. He's challenging, he has counters, but he can also really really destroy you if he anticipates you trying to counter him too.
Hillbilly at his base? That's the perfect strong DbD killer.
I'd say Huntress too, but poor girl gets gutted by like 80 percent of the maps these days.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791072#Comment_791072
Cool, so it's fine if a killer gives up/DCs against things they don't like too. Why bother playing the game am I right?
Lol. That was far from a post saying ''DC GUYS IT'S FINE" but go off I guess?
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@S_Panda said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791076#Comment_791076
I mean this can be said about any killer - except if the killer gives up because they realize they're about to waste 2-3 minutes getting looped around safe pallets
That's the difference though. Spirit and Nurse don't have to worry about that. At their base if you're even somewhat decent with them you're probably not even gonna have a 2 minute chase. Much less anything over or nearing a minute. You'd have to be rank 20 and new to the game to achieve a 3 minute chase using them without downing someone.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
Ok guys let's nerf every killer to legion level and give them the ability to repair gens to help survivors
Don't be silly. I don't even want her nerfed to Legion level. No one deserved Legion level. Not even Legion. In fact they need a buff.
You can try to paint me as this silly survivor main who hates her because ''GAME HARD AND ALL KILLERS OVERPOWERED" but it simply isn't so.
I want her to not have bullshit add ons and more of a tell to her ability than ''IF YOU LOOK SUPER CLOSE HER GLASS GLOWS!" bullshit.
I don't even mind if she's still top 3 killer in the game after her rework...she just needs a slight rework like Nurse did.
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@Danielgdp3 said:
Someone just doesn't grasp that there is a killer in the game where running circles around a pallet doesn't work on them.
This is bullshit and you know it. You can still counterplay Nurse and she laughs in the general direction of looping and pallets.
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@[Deleted User] said:
You're right that she's unfun to face. But you're wrong to give up against her and ruin your teammates' game.
I mean their game was already ruined once they loaded in and were facing up against a Spirit. There's a reason she's the killer with the highest amount of DCs lately. You don't even have to have toxic behavior as her to get a DC.
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@PolarBear said:
I can agree, Spirit is not fun to face, but what you're suggesting is very unsportsmanlike.
You could post ideas for how to change the Spirit or what makes her so irritating to play against.
I have tried MANY times in MANY threads since I've started posting here fairly regularly. You can not speak to these people or get through to them. Spirit is their precious baby and she mustn't be touched. She's the only way they can win in red ranks. Nevermind you know plenty of people can actually be good in red ranks with so called far worse killers than her.
They protect the very idea of her, because they know deep down inside that she's too strong and needs some touch ups. It's the same as when Nurse was getting her rework and lol...she did and look how people overreacted to that.
It only harmed the people who weren't all that good with Nurse anyways.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/791015#Comment_791015
Sure, i rarely play her at all because I don't like the sound she makes, but keep the strawmans coming.
Funny, you win against everything else and lose only to spirit, sounds not madeup at all.
It's almost like every other killer in the game has a non perk related counter and gameplay mechanic that can be one uped.....but Spirit.
I mean sure I'll loose to say a Good Ghostface, Billy, Freddy, Plague, etc.
But I have maybe survived on a total this month 3 Spirit matches. She's busted and there's nothing that's ''Git Gud" about this. Rather the developers didn't think through a powerset that literally has no downsides for her.
You got a headset and a general understanding of the basics of the game? You've won as Spirit.
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I love that half of ya'll literally half Spirit as avatar or in their name but I'm the one making ######### up. HI-LARIOUS.
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Lord I see the Spirit mains are thicc in this Chili's tonight. I've played for months against her. I routinely lose matches as survivor to her and only her.
She's a problem. You're just blind to it, because you all love how fun she is to play as a killer.
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@Marcus said:
So after your statement, if I play against a gen rushing team with DS, DH, Adrenaline, BT and Toolboxes, it's ok to go AFK in basement, because the match is pointless and unfun anyway ?
Sure, because that is also unfun to go against, but much more hard to fix all together than say one killer who is problematic.
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Sure. Having no information against a killer when they are using their power is SOOO fun. It's so balanced. Especially balanced when she has prayer beads.
As she is? She's 80/20 you are going to lose that chase, because there's literally no real mind game potential against her. And the only counterplay shouldn't be perks like Spine Chill and Iron Will. You shouldn't have to take up two perk slots just in anticipation of ONE killer.
You who only want Spirit left the way she is because she is nothing more than easy wins and chases and therefore easy wins at the match all together.