johnmwarner
johnmwarner
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@GrannyonAcid said:
For a long time NOED was just considered a baby killer perk. People wouldn't use it often. It was for lower rank killers. When you got up to rank 1-10ish you never saw NOED. It was more of a 11-20 perk. Now it's becoming super meta. Being used a lot more frequently. Survivors haven't adapted to the new meta. It'll just take awhile for everyone to adjust their minset. But no ones ever going to say, GG! You really used that NOED well! Just not the type of response that it'll trigger when you're getting beat up on and get a few kills at the end.
Oh, I don’t expect to get much positive reaction to it. But I feel like it’s almost a necessary evil at this point.
Flipaide, as survivor I hate getting hit by NOED but only because I missed getting the totems. I always bring Hunch or a Map
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any idea why this wasn't sent out as a warning BEFORE it happened?
@Mister_Holdout said:
Pretty good job so far.
You can always go play something else, like Civ
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@Veen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230049#Comment_1230049
I can't believe you suggested No Mither as a counter to slugging, which killer in his right mind would fall for it.
And this perk is so poorly designed, it's supposed to grants as David perks description says, High-risks, high rewards, but this perk only have risks.
not even a percentage of bonus bloodpoints for any category, you still grunt and you don't loose blood which dosent matter with the load of aura revealing perks and addons the killer have.
Thus it's SUPER situationnal perks, which for unbreakable can be used ONCE, so you pick yourself up, the killer downs you again then what ? you bleed out.
Unbreakable and No mither are Buckle Up but with a once of purpose.
They literally don't understand their own game, what killer doesn't IMMEDIATELY notice that one of the players has No Mither due to that ridiculous UI notification? The only killer you can ever take by surprise would be like a rank 20 who doesn't know the survivor perks yet.
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@Raptorrotas said:
They implemented that the last survivor is instantly sacrificed, as the game is defacto over by that moment, adding striggle is a timewaste and in case of enabled kobe, killers wouldnt leave the hook. Aby killer leaving the last hook is due to the impossibility of that survivor getting off. The newly added/soon to be added extension of the first mechanic checks if all remaining survivors are struggling. Also a situation in which the game is over.
It could be worse tho, the game could check for all incapacitated (hooked/downed) survivors, if they can get up or not, and then instantly sacrifice all survivors (with the egc-kill or hook instantkill).
On topic of the suicide-bleedout, i think it would certainly be used as a " legal dc-hatch-'tech' ". Yeah yeah killer opinion, but it is lame. Edit: could work for the last survivor or when everyone is incapacitated tho.
So if I have sprint, DS and unbreakable (very common) I don’t deserve the chance to get off the hook and at least get away?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1230158#Comment_1230158
Even so, if the hatch spawns nearby, that person has the chance to crawl out and escape. Same with an open exit gate.
I’ve been the last survivor before and gone straight to death on my first hook, sounds like you’re saying that’s a bug then?
I should be able to try to Kobe based on your feelings about the hatch thing.
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@KingFrost said:
Because Mori's aren't meant to be a balanced mechanic. They're meant to be something fun and OP, like Keys.
So if Dwight actually stumbled with his key a bit and it took 2 seconds to open you’d be ok with that?
@brokedownpalace said:
I wish they were as long and as epic as the guardian force attacks in the Final Fantasy games.
Ifrit from FF8: https://youtu.be/4zbug2UEE6A
FF 10 anima anyone?
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/146031/why-are-mori-times-not-all-equal
Which was the longest and which was the shortest, out of curiosity?
I’ll grab my list on lunch just working atm
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@MadArtillery said:
Think Mori's are more a for fun but of flare than a mechanic to balance timings of. It's not like you'll be in much danger of losing with a mori if used to maximum efficiency. Honestly I just double hook people and mori for the fun of it sometimes and I definitely prefer the longer ones.
I agree with preferring a longer, elaborate cool mori. I don’t use them to emanate someone early for advantage usually, only when I have a daily for mori or once in a while feeling silly and then I wait for 3rd hooks
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@shane32 said:
Clowns feels so long
Clown feels SUPER long, compared to pig who is just stab, slice, done
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/146031/why-are-mori-times-not-all-equal
This is a grey area. 😕
The amount of times where you are stuck in animation causes you to lose is very slim to say the least. If the game was more competitive, I can see the developers match the times across all killers. However, since DBD is, for the most part, causal — I don't see a need in changing Mori times. They are already pretty powerful and if you're in a position where using it would be a mistake, you likely misplayed a lot during the match. 😅
I get your point but why put any killer at a disadvantage compared to others when their Moris all accomplish the exact same thing?
I play survivor too, it reminds me of how stupid it is that there are different breathing and grunting volumes for each survivor. They are supposed to be only skins after all.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
Don't try to understand people. Before the DC penalties came into the game it was even worse. If something actually bothers me... Which is usually nothing. I would just run to the killer and let him hook me. I generally do that if he's basement camping or running something like the instant down hatchets. I'd rather just move on.
But to give up because of a Mike Myers. That's just nuts. He's pretty much a free victory.
That's actually what got it started, they brought up the "broken addon," and I said if anything it actually hurts him most games people pop 3-4-5 gens before you get tier 3... this team just teabagged at the pallet and fed me like they didn't understand his ability.
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@animalmak said:
I've DC'd once because of internet connection issues. By the time I got my WiFi back up, the 5 minutes was over and I didn't even notice it happened. When I continued to have laggy games that day, I stopped playing. Stopping is always an option if connectivity (for any reason) is bungled and you don't want to eat the penalties.
Also I'm pretty sure yesterday BHVR mentioned they were having issues on their end and were working toward fixing them but they wouldn't all be rolled out at the same time. So if this was yesterday, maybe it was from that.
If that’s the case they should find a way to “not count,” DCs for the day... I know that would let some people off the hook but if they announced it the day after then people couldn’t just willy nilly DC
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@Fiv55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1227136#Comment_1227136
on dbd mobile, the perks are shown right before the loading screen. So they'd have to either disable their internet / cut connection or close the game. I think this would be too much of a hassle for most survivors. I know some surv do this if they see a mori, but most of the time they just stick with it (at least from my experience in random games lately).
Ok cool, that really sounds useful
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@ZoneDymo said:
how many threads have to be made about this?
Oh wait, another new account, welcome to the forums, dont worry about it, they are working on it.
How many people have to reply to these threads with “they’re linking into it,” the stream they first talked about looking into it was last October or November I think...
At some point you have to be really gullible to think it’s actually going to ever be changed for the better
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1226968#Comment_1226968
you crashed.....thats an issue on your end....you left the game against the rules, intentional or not, you get a dc penalty for that.
I’ve had it happen to me where the end screen shows 2 survivors (one was Me) and the killer all DC, and I eat a 5 minute penalty. Who’s to say that was me and not them? Or are you implying that all three of us crashed at once and it wasn’t the game?
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1227062#Comment_1227062
That would also be an amazing change, but I’m not holding my breath on that one lol.
I was once told they wouldn’t do it because people would dodge lobbies if their team wasn’t running meta perks... ugh
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@Raptorrotas said:
DbD mobile does show each survivor loadout to every survivor in a lobby. It could be added to our DbD too.
Highlighting team-oriented perks might actially be worth trying out.
Rwally? I’ve been asking that forever just because knowing if my teammates had DS, BT, and a few other perks could be huge.
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@EvilJoshy said:
Saying GG I consider polite. Saying GG EZ, to me, feels like your saying "You suck".
When I look at the number of survivors that are ######### I can't help but wonder. Who are the real evil people in this game?
Both sides can say it, the thing is as a survivor you have potentially 4 people grouping up against 1
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@finitethrills said:
I had a 3k hour survivor say that to me back when I had 10 hrs total. Half or more of that had been spent in lobbies. And this was a couple years ago. Some things never change.
Most times when I see this from a teammate they have half the points as everyone else, like even in an easy game against a baby killer they still hid from the heartbeat every time. Their points are like doing one gen, no chase and maybe cleansing a dull totem.
I mean in a lopsided game you can’t get many heals or unhooks but still there are points to be had
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@DelsKibara said:
A while back I think the devs mentioned the longer the killer/survivor has to wait, the bigger the rank range for matchmaking becomes.
I'm pretty sure that is what happened here.
Yeah, I thought about that and it made the only thing this makes sense. I know they said the rank ranges would open as time goes on but I still thought the max would be six?
No way rank 15+ killers should be facing teams of red rank survivors
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@GoddamnBananas said:
Yes, it is. I agree that the argument of "if you don't tunnel, you'll never eat it" is objectively wrong, but it IS primarily an anti-tunnel perk. Just because some people use it outside it's intended purpose doesn't mean that it's not. As long as so many killers camp and tunnel, Decisive and Borrowed are necessary. There are genuinely situations where someone is being blatantly camped/tunneled to death, and the only way to give them a chance to survive, or even live a few seconds longer, is to use those perks. And what, you want to take that away? Give more power to the campers and tunnelers?
If anything my suggest change takes away power from actual tunnel and camping, I’m not kidding as killer the DS could be 3 minutes and I’d be fine as long as it deactivated on the next hook.
A camper would have to deal with it endgame, someone could literally drag themself out the door while the killer had to wait out DS
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@AsePlayer said:
Good thing it's not supposed to be anti-tunnel, it's anti-momentum.
It actually was though, check old quotes from... the... devs and mods. The narrative changed once people figured out how many ways you could abuse DS.
I play killer/survivor and I can’t blame killers for hating DS
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@Pulsar said:
I would be in favor of disabling DS once the Exit Gates are open, making it last a minute and letting it be used on both hook states if it reset upon hooking another Survivor.
The thing is I can’t ever find anyone to give me a good reason that DS shouldn’t deactivate on someone else being hooked. Bing, literally means you weren’t tunneled.
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@MasterGrit said:
If survivor try locker DS ? I would tunnel them to death. Lol
I had a killer do that to a teammate, was a normal guy about halfway through, chill killer and pretty Normal solo survivor game for me. Then all of a sudden he turned to face camping someone while we all left, end game chat started with “as soon as you did that locker DS you were getting camped.”
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@Pennywise said:
The killer leaving is a minor inconvenience for me. If a survivor leaves though, then that is what I consider a really bad gameplay experience for me and for the other survivors that are left in the game. Unfortunately survivors can still leave the game early without penalty by klling themselves on the first hook, which I do see a lot of now.
My concern with this behaviour is what it does to the data that the dev's are reading, to see if the disconnection penalty is a success or not. Yes disconnections are probably going down by a lot but in its place seems to be another form of disconnection that will be hidden from the devs as an actual problem. Survivors killing themselves on the first hook is a major problem in my opinion.
Exactly, less DC but more “kills,” which isn’t good for accurate data.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1211076#Comment_1211076
The same for me. Playing with a goal other than the game's really makes is a lot more fun.
Yup as killer lately I’ve been playing for BBQ four stacks, really only playing killer because you get more points and I’m trying to level some more survivors
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@animalmak said:
Ghostface is my favorite killer to play! He's sneaky, he tbags, and he can get instadowns through his sneakiness. Also easily has the most fantastic mori animation. He took a little bit to get used to playing, but once you get the hang of stalking and such, he can be really fun!
As for being really good, I think that's definitely up to whoever's playing him, but I will say that when I've gone up against red rank killers while playing SWF, the Ghostfaces are always the MOST terrifying to go against.
I agree with this, he is one of the “scariest,” killers to go against. For me stealth killers give me the most fun because they can surprise you.
He is a good killer too, I don’t know if he’s “too tier,” I don’t get into that but if you play him well he can give you a good game even against red rank survivors. Plus again, I enjoy playing GF and wraith the most I enjoy doing the stealth play
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@GhostofYharnam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1211093#Comment_1211093
I agree. Just allow them to open the exits but noed and rancor and things of that natute won't activate.
Agreed, put a minimum time in too otherwise someone who wants to DC will instantly open the door 20 games in a row
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@bunnibeetea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1211061#Comment_1211061
I've been disconnecting a lot lately, as I feel like there is nothing I can do anymore In the game so I just gtfo
”when things don’t go my way, I quit.”
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@DisappointedUser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/929496#Comment_929496
Yes, something is wrong. Your internet. You cannot try to play an online game and continue to screw over 4 other people because you have poor internet. Disconnecting from 7 games in a span of a few hours is crazy and you shouldn't be playing until your internet is fixed.
People just don’t get this... it’s like starting a game of monopoly with your friends when you know you have to leave for home in 10 minutes pick up your kids and make them dinner... and then coming back the next night and doing it again... and again... then wondering why you don’t get invited to game night anymore.
Or going to play basketball with the neighborhood kids and leaving halfway through every game to take a phone call for half an hour, then wondering why no one picks you anymore.
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@NovaliumTS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1210518#Comment_1210518
And this is where your wrong does the grandmaster get better because he defeated you, no
Does the fighter get better because he knocked you out in 15 seconds, no
Does a gamer get better at minecraft by completing the game on peaceful, no
Should i go on in a game about strategy you dont get better by playing on easy mode and as someone said, the entity doesnt care that you killed/sacrificed them why do you think instead of getting a 4k it says brutal killer ect.. but not worshiper, its because the entity couldnt care less that you killed them its doesnt feast on their bodies it feasts on their hope thats why survivors are back into another trial after because all the entity does is reset them for the next trial so the entity can feast on their hope again, its why in my opinion gens are supposed to go fast in a match because if they go fast it builds up survivors hope only for them to be crushed and dominated by the killer
You’re talking about different things, winning and getting better. The topic is about being punished for winning too quickly, the UFC fighter who knocks his opponent out in 30 second still improved his record, heck some titles have changed that way.
The chessmaster who beats me still gets one more win added to his record, the chess community doesn’t all of a sudden decide since he beat a beginner he gets a loss. But that is exactly what DBD has done before, I’ve played as Billy before and near instantly downed all four survivors and black pipped.
As far as your lore explanation that is spot on, but the Example of other games also shows that DBD is one of the few games you get punished for winning too much.
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Something Similar happened when Elf Dwight was released
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@NovaliumTS said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1209911#Comment_1209911
Not really because playing killer isnt about just killing people, think of it this way you dont win a game of chess by going straight to the king.
you have to get other pieces out before heading towards the king and yes you may loose some of your own pieces (gens) but when you finally get the king after defeating all the other pieces its not just one piece youve taken but many which equates to a large sum (bp and pips)
Killing survivors shouldnt be treated as your only task as doing that only makes you fail
This is a stupid analogy, and incorrect. If I play against a grandmaster they would probably checkmate me in like 10 moves without needing to trade too many pieces and they would get a win...
Ive seen UFC fighters knockout the opponent in less than 15 seconds, they get a win...
Ive seen professional billiards player break and run the table never missing, they get a win...
Should I go on? None of the above situations require the dominant player to artificially lengthen the game to earn more points to secure a win.
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@ZoneDymo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1210192#Comment_1210192
I dont agree, if a match really goes that fast, then something is just wrong, something makes no sense, it should be disqualified tbh.
Sometimes it really is just as simple as outmatching the survivors that badly. I lost ranks because I hadn’t played killer for a while but I used to be red rank, and then they had that rank reset bug it pushed me back to like rank 17 and I was absolutely crushing people but getting black pips and single pips instead of double pips.
It took me way longer than it should have to get back to “fair ranks,” basically taking me at least double the number of games it should have. I shouldn’t care because I was winning, but I am sure those survivors were not having fun. Not a brag, just an explanation of why being way better than the players you go against shouldn’t cause you to be punished.
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The short answer is it’s a ######### system... the long answer is it’s a shitttttttttyyyyyy system
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1209755#Comment_1209755
🤷
I think my concern there is chase/off-hooking is a necessary part of the point structure. Again, a survivor dies on hook and the killer gets hook/sacrifice points and has 3 more people to drum up points on. A killer leaves and all those points stop for survivors. Maybe if survivors got a fat BP boost for a killer forfeiting too. I would also find it funny to watch a killer jump through a hatch tho. LOLOL
Yeah there would definitely need to be something to protect survivors from Depips and ensure they can get decent point totals.
Youre exactly right though a lot of potential survivor points come from unhooks and/or healing so if the killer doesn’t do anything it’s tough
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@Tarvesh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1208088#Comment_1208088
Shall we go back to where they said it WAS an anti tunnel perk? Only now that people have constantly pointed out the bullshit in their redesign to they now try and say it's not an anti tunnel perk.
So now they either have to admit they ######### up making an anti-tunnel perk (which they won't do) or change their narrative behind the perk (which is what they're starting to do). I'd rather stick with facts instead of watching the devs play their butt-covering games thinking that people won't remember what they said and just listen to what they say now.
It’s not an anti-tunnel perk, they admit that, killers know it, even most survivors admit that.
But as killers we know what it does, if there is an obsession and you done someone quickly after unhook your have to decide...
A. Slug them, this isn’t such a bad option as it forces someone to come pick them up (batting unbreakable)
B. Pick them up and eat the DS, just get it out of the way.
C. Pick them up and be surprised they don’t actually even have DS, woot woot!!!
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@LALYTHIA said:
I would enjoy watching a killer kill themselves. 😂 But I assume this is not a thing because it would be somewhat frequent anytime someone was losing, or encountered game play they didnt like, to get out and get to the next match. A survivor team can survive without someone who suicided because there are 3 other people and the match can continue. A match cannot continue without a killer.
What if the killer had their own hatch? They could leave and once they leave an extended end-game begins giving the survivors 4-5 minutes to do gens, totems, loot chests or whatever else to try to save a pip.
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@chaosdriver said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/217/L4A4B84H6FQQ.jpg
Just wanted to point out that windows on the new map kinda sucks. It shows the breakable walls and it really shouldnt. When in a tense chase they look like pallets. Note that the middle one is a pallet. The other two are walls. I wonder if the perk is meant to show them at all. It's supposed to help with finding loops and showing walls doesn't help with looping.
Wow I really hope this is a bug?
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@gatsby said:
I just hit Rank 1 for the first time ever on Killer.
I was rank 2 for awhile and started to get desperate and brought moris, map offerings, used new perks and iridescent add-ons. It didn't work at all. I lost games badly.
So I cooled down, played some games on Survivor. And came back to Killer with my standard perk lineup and used normal vanilla add-ons. I didn't do anything special. I just played the way I had been before I started getting close to Rank 1. That was what did it. Moral of the story is that sometimes relaxing a little bit and using perks that you're comfortable with can make a big difference.
Congrats!!! You’re right, sometimes relaxing and just playing the game is the best way to win and pip.
When I start pushing too hard I end up having tunnel vision, not tunneling, but focusing on a survivor even if they’re good looping at a strong spot. When I go back to basics I pick at weak links or people out of position, leave immediately so they get unhooks and I get multiple hooks.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1209663#Comment_1209663
Oh yeah in general there's nothing wrong with having rules for yourself at all. I'm the same, I'd much rather go for more hits and hooks than camp out a kill, and I'll happily die to make someone else escape.
The issue is when people try to force their personal rules on others afterall.
which I guess is every facet of life, religion, politics, etc. lol
Im with you, I would rather have good chases, hook everyone once or twice and get zero kills with good bloodpoints. Then I’m pretty confident everyone had fun.
Things insidious camping Bubba may be fun for some people so if so good for them, whatever floats your boat.
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@oxygen said:
I honestly just go by the good old "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
People can play however they want, but if they play in an "unfun" or "toxic" way and then cry when their opponent(s) do the same they're not getting even the tiniest bit of sympathy from me. The one thing I would like to ask is for people to avoid playing with "make others mad" as an actual primary motivation, call it griefing or "playing for salt" you know exactly what I mean.
But I'm not ever actually going to say anything like that to another player, because all of this stuff is subjective. I probably have a very restrictive use of words like "toxic" and "griefing" and meanwhile there's people that seem to think staying near a hook when there's 3 survivors swarming it or having the conscious thought of clicking the SWF button on the main menu is inherently toxic and "playing for salt" so... 😂
@MigrantTheGreat said:
Ok! But what if my unwritten rules only affect me!
Fair point, I have a “code,” I follow but it’s entirely self imposed and if it screws me over because the other side is “toxic,” then I’m still okay with it.
As killer I won’t tunnel, because when I play survivor I know that getting like 30 seconds of actual play time before being tunneled off hook and modi’s stinks.
As survivor I don’t sit at exit gates when it’s clearly over, because as killer I hate those few wasted moments of people forcing me to walk to the gate so I can see them leave and teabag.
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@Dehitay said:
I also run Bond as much as possible. I might eventually switch it out for Kindred, but I don't see any good reason to get rid of it. I prefer aura perks over exhaustion perks.
Right now I’m fitting them together my usual build is Bond/kindred... spine chill... an exhaustion perk... then either DS or detectives hunch
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
Both sides want to have fun.
It's the reason for every nerf/buff.
If one side is having more fun than the other, then changes are made.
It is what it is. Unwritten rules yeah, but these "unwritten rules" kind of dominate the balance.
Not all of the unwritten rules are balance issues, fun/unfun yes but balance not always. Camping has nothing to do with balance for example. I could argue that camping is actually the weakest way to play killer because if the players do what they should by the time that player dies the gates are getting opened. Yet we see calls for bans for camping...
Similarly teabagging annoys killers but is no way unbalanced, again if anything it hurts the survivors because they waste preschools time squatting.
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@Deadeye said:
I just tried these on the PTB again, also because of the challenge. And I can't get addicted to watching how hardcore inefficient teams can be X-0
That’s the scary thing, without them you can be blissfully ignorant of why you someone did the only 3 gens so far, AND made an Unhook, AND did a decently long chase... with them you realize player two was hiding behind a tree while you got chased and player three is in the basement locker
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just to be clear this conversation and thread isn’t just about DS, very few threads ever really are... it’s about the unwritten rules survivors expect killers to follow and the proper etiquette killers want survivors to follow
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204860#Comment_1204860
I'm saying that the perk was reworked to be designed as an anti-tunnel perk, that's part of the reason the stun time was increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds and part of the reason Enduring was changed as well. The way the perk was used in this clip was more of a "immunity for 60 seconds." In no way is it being used as the developers had intended.
Are you a dev, where’s their quote that this isn’t how they intended it?
They literally programmed it to punish you if you picked someone up within one minute... any special circumstance or exception you have outside of that is you trying to make a “killer rule book,” which we killers are so quick laugh at survivors for.
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@Shocktober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/143619/help-i-m-addicted-to-bond-kindred
Spine chill, then you don't care what your team is doing. Iron will, so you don't care you are injured. As well as it being one of the best chase perks in the game for survivors. Left behind, so if everyone dies, you still have your own way out.
That’s another go to, I swear when I take it off I instantly get Wraith the next game who uses silent bell and gets me around a blind corner
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@bendermac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204508#Comment_1204508
This wasn't tunneling at all. Just picked up the wrong person first. That's the current BS of DS
A lot of people here are agreeing DS can be abused and is not just for anti-tunnel... it the OP specifically asked what he did wrong, we answered and he’s taking exception.
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@Tarvesh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1207907#Comment_1207907
And everyone is also ignoring he hooked other survivors in between Jane getting unhooked and getting downed. She wasn't tunneled. DS shouldn't have gone off if it's supposed to be an anti-tunnel perk.
That’s like saying NOED is an “anti gen rush perk,” and nothing else. Some perks are crutches for bad or inefficient play, ON... BOTH... SIDES! I play about 50:50 so Let me repeat before the “baby survivor main,” comments start. BOTH SIDES have perks to make up for when you mess up or are outmatched. BOTH SIDES whine about the other side’s perks.
DS is strong, I still believe it’s OP and needs nerfed, but as it is right now killers know how it works so if we get hit by it no excuses.
NOED is annoying and even when it’s not a gen rush it can bail out bad killers who can’t manage hooks or win chases normally, but you can cleanse totems.