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ad19970
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23 seconds what?
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@YOURFRIEND said:
You can figure out the issues with it if you think about it with your mindbrain a little. Unbreakable already exists. One of the best perks in the game. Can turn around an entire match. Now just use those established parameters and apply them to every survivor, all the time. The fallout is evident.
I don't need to walk into the ocean to know that I'll get wet. I've been rained on and it's the same substance in the ocean that comes from the sky. Just a little bit of deductive reasoning shows what'll happen.
You can accuse people that don't agree with you of not using their brains all you want, won't change the fact that it really is just an overreaction.
This basekit change is not like Unbreakeable. Unbreakeable let's you pick yourself up within like 25 seconds or so, this will take 45 seconds. That's quite the difference. It will really only nerf hard slugging multiple survivors at once, which in the long run, is also very healthy for the game. Maybe it will need some counterbalancing? But I seriously doubt it, actually.
I guess the only thing that makes this change not amazing to me is the fact that camping and tunneling are bigger problems that need more addressing. But who knows, maybe we will see some more changes in the coming update regarding at least camping as well, I would at least hope so.
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@SuzuKR said:
An infinitely usable unconditional self-pickup with no actual downsides is fundamentally a terrible idea. Know what is the counter balance for an infinitely usable pickup? Being permanently Broken all game, or the killer having a Hex and it having to stay alive which is its own barrel of risks.
It can also put the killer into a lose-lose where either they make the smart call and slug because others nearby or limited time effects and thus are punished by losing the down despite literally making the smart decision. Or they end their power early and/or lose a ton of time remaining or give the other survivors time to run away just so they can hook.
There is a reason why most people think No Mither is a terrible perk.
No, it's just overreaction, like so much on these forums to be fair. Slugging simply won't be as strong anymore, but that is probably a good thing for the game. It's just weird for that to be addressed while camping and tunneling are still such a problem. But yeah, 45 seconds is quite a bit of time anyways, it won't be a big problem at all. It's definitely healthy for the game, just as nerfs to camping and tunneling would be.
Whether it might need some counterbalancing is to be seen, but honestly, I doubt it. It really won't have too much of an impact, it will probably hurt sweaty slugging Nurses the most, which is honestly a really good thing, cause that is just completely broken anyways.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202054#Comment_3202054
Why not? 2 Metaperks Basekit for survivors, 0 for killers. Balanced, right?
Next will be 3sec DS Basekit, regular DS will grant extra seconds for the stun.
I totally believe the devs are that kind of "I dont know nothing about my own game Jon Snow"-Thing.
You are kidding right? Killers got serious buffs in the 6.1.0 update. Kill rate is at 61%, and queue times are much longer for killer on average than survivor queue times. It's fine for survivors to get something now as well.
Not to mention that picking yourself up after 45 seconds is clearly worse than Unbreakeable.
I wish they would have done more about camping, tunneling, and the lack of information that solo survivors have, instead of the changes we are getting. And I hope they still will sometime in he future. DS basekit would be so, so awesome honestly.
But acting like now survivors are getting so much and killers not is ridiculous, considering the last 6.1.0 update. Yes, killers got 0 perks into basekit, and survivors now 2, though again, it's more like 1,5 perks, but killers got so many other buffs in the 6.1.0 update.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198906#Comment_3198906
Wait... you can´t control crouching?
Dude, come on. It's fine if you do not agree with many people that Hag is unfun to go against. I even support that. Killers will always be subjective, so even the less popular killers still have people that like them very much, even when going against them. It's something that also should always be kept in mind if such killers ever receive changes.
But your attempts to ridicule people that do not enjoy going against certain killers are getting a bit laughable. The fact you have to slow ass croutch towards a survivor on hook is one of the reasons she has her camping potential. Yes, if survivors can time it right, they might get an unhook right when she has a good distance to the hooked survivor. If they don't, well because survivors move so slowly towards the hooked survivor, that already gives her more time to go away and then back to the hooked survivor.
But even if you time the unhook perfectly, Hag gets a notification, and you and the other survivor have to crouch away from the hook, slow ass once again, or you trigger the trapper, allowing her to teleport right on top of you. Which gives her good time to just go back to the hook.
And before you say that isn't camping, whatever. It has the similar effect of camping a hooked survivor because they can get back to the hooked survivor much easier, and then tunnel them much easier.
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Some maps are indeed still a problem.
And multiple toolboxes, especially with Brand New Parts, stacked upon each other, perhaps even with perks like Prove Thyself and Hyperfocus, can still go pretty ridiculously fast.
And I do want these aspects adressed, but right now, some of the troubles that survivors are facing are more urgent to be addressed, shown by queue times.
Camping and tunneling being two main problems, as well as the lack of info solo queue survivors have. And then there are also the possible builds that killers have that can also be too oppressive, in the opposite way. Overcharge+Call of Brine+ Eruption for example. Eruption being problematic even on it's own in my opinion, with 25 seconds of incapacitated effect just being too long.
Not to mention Nurse just generally being op, or Blight having a ridiculous tech and a bunch of op addons. And there are a few other killers with some ridiculous addons as well.
This game just needs to get to that level where it's just fundamentally in a good spot, and then the devs can also address all the extremes on either side, that shift the balance of the match too much towards one side.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199682#Comment_3199682
The answer to bad behaviour is not to try to be worse than the first. This should be something that should come naturally to anyone.
Be the better player
Actually, I do not think slugging the survivor that is trying to suicide on hooks is worse behaviour. If a survivor tries to throw the match, and I notice that, then I also won't hook them, at least for a while. Cause it just really sucks for the other three survivor players.
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DS being buffed is probably my number one balance change I am hoping for in the upcoming mid chapter update. I would just not understand why they wouldn't do that, cause I am expecting some more perk changes in the next midchapter update. And DS being buffed back to 5 seconds is like one of the most requested changes, as far as I can see.
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He doesn't, simple as that. If he hits a survivor once, it'll take ages until the survivor gets fully infected. A chase taking so long will just lose him the game, especially multiple chases like that. Not to mention that he already got a hit againts that survivor, so it clearly isn't a free down to begin with.
He can speed things up if he hits a survivor multiple times, but in that case he is already getting multiple hits, and simply not getting downs because he isn't slamming survivors into walls. So it's fine for Wesker to be rewarded in those cases.
The only problem Wesker has is that survivors, that are infected, and are hooked, only have their infection reset to halway, it should be reset to 0, to decrease his tunneling potential.
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@Wezil said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191743#Comment_3191743
I think the big tell for the developers should have been the increase in DCs and suicides on the survivor side. I kind of wish the developers would re-add the "Did you have fun" at the end of the game, so they can also get a measure of how fun the game is currently.
Players are willing to accept a little bit of difference between a win and a loss, probably around 5%, which is what they had before 6.1. However, 11% is just not going to be acceptable to the player base as a whole. If you want that type of unbalance, just put in bots for survivors and let killers go at it.
The real problem arises when you realise that the escape rate is probably somewhere between 30-35 % for solo survivors, considering swf survivors have a 15% higher escape rate.
I still enjoy survivor, but there are just too many possibilities on the survivors side to not have a fun match at all. And then you add on the fact that survivors have a lower win rate, and things aren't looking too good. I do think that all the posts of solo queue being dead is very exaggerated and pretty ridiculous, but there is not doubt that solo queue definitely needs some help now, and asap.
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@_VTK_ said:
As s solo survivor I would be ok with 45% escape rate, but ~30% is not enough.
Here's my objective view on what should be done balance-wise, without taking survivor or killer side:
- Fix tunneling/camping
- Add action icons (mainly to buff soloQ)
- Bloodlust is a good game mechanic, it helps to even out the discrepancy between bad and good loopers. While bad loopers do gown very fast, good loopers can loop killers for ages, it's hard to balance the game across all MMR levels like that, bloodlust should be more aggressive on its higher tiers.
- Jungle gyms/pallet towns can have more pallets/windows, but they should be spaced further apart from each other, so that a single survivor can't run the killer across half of the map for 10 minutes. Once you are done with a jungle gym/pallet town as a survivor you go down, unless the killer makes a big mistakes or you outsmart him. It will also help with balancing the game across all MMR levels.
I agree with the nerfs to tunneling and camping, as well as solo queue buffs.
Bloodlust definitely doesn't need to be buffed however. It's bad enough that it even got buffed in the last midchapter update. We do not need a mechanic like that that evens out the discrepancy between bad and good loopers. Instead, we need a better matchmaking system, so newer killer players don't get screwed by having to play against much better survivor players.
Regarding your fourth point, I think I would go the opposite way. Jungle gyms or pallet towns do not need to be made stronger, instead we need more weaker loops, but more loops in general. This way, both sides have more counterplay at all time. I do not think it's interesting gameplay as a killer to constantly have to break pallets just to eventually down a survivor, and at the same time, I don't think it's fun as survivor to go down simply because after the killer broke the pallet, I had no where else to go anymore.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191937#Comment_3191937
Here's what people might be missing. Despite the game allegedly being killer sided at low level, it's not as if the killers aren't equally as noobish as the survivors they're playing against.
That's why I didn't like the Deathslinger nerf, the Pinhead nerf, the Wraith nerf, etc. Those killers were easily dealt with at high level, but they were complained about all the time at low and mid level by survivors who couldn't adapt. Now that they're nerfed, those same survivors are still struggling with them, and the killer players who were pushing those towards viability at the top are now in the dumps more than ever, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people abandoned those killers after that. I know I did.
The point is that most killer nerfs are ill advised, because they're always nerfing killers that good survivors can beat already, for the purpose of making them less of a noob crusher. The other thing is that, again, killers aren't playing that well with those characters at lower levels, and they reach nowhere near their full potential. So when a killer gets buffed, they're not all of a sudden gonna perform way better at low level, because at low level those killer players don't execute the full potential of their killer. Survivors will lose to them, sure, and lose hard, but that's because they're inefficient and don't know what they're doing. We must balance around people who know how to play the game.
The game needs to be balanced for all ranks. Not just high ranks. So if killers are a noob crusher, that is still a problem, even if they aren't too strong at high ranks.
I do feel like one problem DBD really has is that the balance can shift noticeably at lower ranks, and I am not quite sure how the devs could fix that.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191743#Comment_3191743
See, here's the thing. From your post:
"I do agree that a 61% kill rate would be much less of a problem if tactics like camping and tunneling weren't effective, and killers got these kill rates *by simply playing fairly* and in a fun and skillful way"
Who defines what "playing fairly" is? Camping and tunnelling are confirmed as legit strats by the devs so by definition they're also playing fairly, no? Or does your definition mean "Killer has to go for 12 hooks?" or something else?
"Playing Fairly" sounds pretty subjective to me so you're never going to get agreement on it.
It's what most people call it. Playing fair and in a fun way pretty much means no camping and tunneling. I was just assuming everyone knows that.
Yes, I do know that BHVR confirmed that camping and tunneling are legitimate tactics. That's why I also can't really blame people for using those strategies, but rather just the devs for not addressng these strategies enough.
But most people simply refer to not tunneling and camping as playing fair, because the general consensus is that tunneling and camping, are either not fair, or at least not healthy or fun for the game.
So all you are doing here is arguing semantics. Which fair enough, I can understand when people say that "playing fairly" is not perfectly accurate. Playing in a healthy and fun way might be more accurate, but of course, this is the "fun" factor for survivors we are talking about in this case.
But it does not change anything else. It's very clear that camping and tunneling are two of the biggest problems of DBD right now, because no one enjoys going against those strategies, no matter if you call those tactics fair or not. So the question of whether these tactics are fair or not is irrelevant.
And you know what isn't subjective? Queue times.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191710#Comment_3191710
What isn´t fun about jump scares from unexpected traps?
Just because survivors have to use the ctrl button for something else than showing their appreciation of the killer, doesn´t mean that it isn´t fun to crouch.
I don't find her fun because she is a camping god and because to me, her chases aren't very interesting or interactive. The counterplay to her is to not run into a trap, which you can not control a lot, and then she is just a 110% M1 killer, which is beyond boring, because that part poses no challenge what so ever.
I wouldn't be surprised if many other people disliked her for the same or similar reasons. But it does seem like a majority of the community just doesn't enjoy going agains her. That's simply how it is. So I don't think she is the type of killer people would be happy to verse more often.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193698#Comment_3193698
And thats is better with the perk nerfed how? We know its still used a lot, and i cant see how nerfing the healing speed adressed using it wrong in any way.
Prolem with nerfed Self Care was that it was nerfed. It should have lost the healing item efficiency but kept the 50% healing speed, right now it's literally a detriment to your team, and seeing it still being the most used perk is actually insanely worrying. Probably one of the reasons why solo queue feels rougher after the patch actually, considering every 5th survivor uses that perk.
It's beyond ridiculous at this point and the most perfect example you could ever come up with why perks can't just only be balanced around usage rate.
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@SuzuKR said:
No thanks. If it's the situationally best play to camp and I feel like playing efficiently, I will camp.
Exactly why BHVR needs to finally nerf skillless strategies like that, so they aren't the most efficient ways to play anymore.
One can't blame the player though, it's BHVR's job to actually solve the problem.
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There's definitely more causing problems for solo queue, such as a lack of information that swf survivors have, camping and tunneling being such effective strategies, and arguably bad tutorials that cause too many people to have no clue on how to play survivor even just a bit efficiently, but MMR surely is one of the biggest problems for solo Q.
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As much as it sucks, I can definitely understand why people give up against crap like that. I generally never support such behaviour, but it's no fun to go against a broken killer with such builds.
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193688#Comment_3193688
That would still result in survivors spending too much time healing. If Self-Care had an incentive, SoloQ would greatly benefit.
Problem with 50% Self Care healing speed wasn't the healing speed, but the way some survivors used it. Which of course is kind of hard to fix, even with tutorials, considering that it would be impossible to include every perk in the tutorial.
However, the 50% healing speed is actually the same efficiency as one survivor healing another in 16 seconds, because 2*16 = 32. In fact, Self Care can even be seen as more efficient, because you can heal whether you want, and don't have to spend time running around to a team mate.
The only key downside is that if another survivor heals you, you are back in action after 16 seconds instead of 32 seconds, so misusing the perk can sometimes result in a survivor not doing anything in situations where they really are needed.
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Definitely a weird post. DH wouldn't even be a good fix for what you are complaining about, but it's also a bit hard to believe your post to begin with. While solo survivors are in need of some help, no doubt, it's not that crazy bad either, and killer cetainly isn't suddenly really easy, although tunneling and camping can definitely make killer easier than they should be.
New DH will not be reverted though, I am positive, and it shouldn't in my opinion. It takes more skill now on the survivors side, and it isn't an uncounterable 3rd health state too often at loops as it used to be. It's actually very fair now, but it still has potential, especially because if you can succesfully pull Dead Hard off, the reward is now greater than it used to be.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191463#Comment_3191463
Problem with this status is it doesnt let you do anything at all, you cant repair, heal, open chests, nothing except opening the Exit Gates, being hit by Huntress, Victor or Pinhead chains is not as bad because it means you are being chased and you wouldnt be able to do anything anyway or are easy to void by performing a fast action like getting rid of Victor or breaking the chains.
On Eruption is a whole different thing because you get hit by it and you are left 25 seconds without doing anything at all without being chased by the Killer, you may aswell go to a locker get inside and wait for it to go away, pair it with several prompts in the span of a trial and the time people are sitting there doing nothing mounts and becomes dull, after all people want to play a game not sit there waiting for some dumb status to go away so they can resume gameplay.
Personally I think the problem with Eruption's incapacitated status effect is the duration. I feel like it's really not that bad if it doesn't last too long. But it being buffed to 25 seconds on Eruption was a really bad idea.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think the status effect should go away entirely or only prevent non-generator interactions. But it's a pretty unfun status effect as currently implemented
I don't see a problem with it as long as it never gets oppressive. Especially considering it generally just prevents you from holding M1, which many people don't find too fun to begin with,
Certain incapacitated effects, mainly Eruption's, are just too oppressive at the moment, which can make it frustrating.
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It's because they were working on the general balance changes, especially for the 6.1.0 update.
And honestly, I really hope they still continue looking in to general balance changes. I think addressing at least some of the survivor issues right now is more important than buffing a certain killer.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/346902/its-good-to-see-kill-rates-are-so-high
I think biggest issue might be how powerful 3 gen is now. I lose so many soloQ games in that situation and even if we win the match it last forever. Had and hour match today agains't hag and it was not even real 3 gen situation but she had add on which makes her able to teleport on her traps when she wants. She hard camped the gens with eruption, overcharge and jolt. We got 4 man out but she kept us hostage so long so I don't know was it worth it. Maybe overcharge and eruption should be nerfed. Camping and tunneling are still bit too strong I would like to see current ds as basekit and hook state should last 70s so 10s longer than the current 60s because gens take 10s longer than before the big killer update.
The nerf to camping you suggest is spot on in my opinion. Maybe there could be better ways to do so, but I feel like those other ways would feel unintuitive, and too complicated for newer players, like the idea of having the hook timer go down much slower when a killer is close to the hooked survivor.
So just increasing the hook phase duration from 60 to 70 seconds would be a great start in my opinion, especially since gen times were increased as well. However, one other nerf I really want to see is hook grabs being removed. An insanely outdated mechanic, that in 99% of all cases, only ever helps killers when they camp a hooked survivor.
The tunneling nerf we got in the last chapter update was great, but also arguably not enough. And the game also finally needs buffs for solo survivors, giving them more information. However, all of these buffs together would probably also require some buffs to killers alongside. Some maps in particular still need to be looked at a bit more closely.
I do also agree that certain slowdown perk synergies are a bit too strong. In general, I feel like most slowdown perks right now are a fine. Some of them just synergies a tad too well, such as Overcharge and Call of Brine. When it comes to Eruption however, I simply believe that perk is too strong. It's much harsher on solo survivors than swf survivors. But most importantly, the incapacitated effect just lasts too long. No idea why they buffed it to 25 seconds. Somebody on the forums suggested Eruption to cause some 6 meter radius explosion, and anyone caught in that explosion would be incapacitated. It would be a nice way to make the perk effective against swf and solo survivors alike. But then the incapacitated effect also needs to be reduced back to 12/14/16 seconds, or something along that line.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Killrates mean nothing when there are still acknowledged unfair "strats" that are very common that have yet to have substancial changes. (See Camping and Tunneling)
The game has less to do with skill and more to do with let's see who can cheesy out a mechanic/playstyle the fastest.
That on top of how heavy the RNG is whether it's a sweaty load out vs a non-sweaty one and vice versa. Features still lacking in Solo Q. Mobility still lacking in some killers meanwhile the ones WITH mobility get unneeded buffs. Etc
The game is an unbalanced mess so I actually laugh when the topic of "killrates or escape rates" come up.
These kill rates are still a good first glance at the game's balance so to speak, and can give people an idea of the perceived game's balance, because survivors are only escaping 39% of the time, and for solo survivors it's more 30-36% probably, if the stats of swf survivors escaping 15% more often are still true, and haven't increased because of bad matchmaking.
I do not think the game's balance is that much of a mess to be honest, especially compared to how it was in the past. The killer buffs we received were all great for example. But there are still some very important steps to be made to really get this game into a better state, in particular for survivors at the moment.
Camping, tunneling, solo queue lacking information, and bad map design, are the four main problems of the game right now in my eyes. And the aspects that really need to be looked at. Obviously bad map design is very important, as some maps can still be very unfair for killer, but at the moment, survivors are the ones in need of help now, which is cleary shown by queue times. So camping, tunneling, and/or solo queue buffs have the highest priority.
And then in addition to that, you have all the other more specific aspects that cause imbalance. OP killers, Nurse and Blight, a few problematic perks, like Eruption or Pentimento, and op items and addons, like Mother-Daughter Ring from Spirit, some of Blight's addons, as well as certain toolboxes, addons, and arguably medkits just in general.
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@White_Owl said:
I think there is a misunderstand here. From what they wrote it seems to me they purposefully wanted to increase kill rates and they're satisfied with the result, they didn't increase "too much". It seems the idea of balance being around 50% kill rates is old news.
Still I agree that survivors could see some improvements. I would be ok with having even really low escape rates all over, if it was still fun and not extremely frustrating as it is right now.
Well then that's not a smart move. I can maybe see why they wanted kill rates to increase by like 3 or 4%, but 8% seems crazy much.
Queue times clearly speak for this. And something that really shouldn't be ignored. Survivors want just as much of a fair chance to win. And surely this varies between mmr, but the simple fact is that some people feel like they escape way less than they die, and that is not the most fun experience.
I do agree that a 61% kill rate would be much less of a problem if tactics like camping and tunneling weren't effective, and killers got these kill rates by simply playing fairly and in a fun and skillful way. But even then, people want a fair chance at escaping matches as well. And it seems like that is not completely given at the moment. For solo queue at the very least.
This is also why I hope the devs now really look into nerfing camping and tunneling more. That would only nerf the very unfun and cheap strategies of the killers, while still keeping the normal gameplay of killers at the same power level. And it would still drop kill rates a bit, which would be a very good thing. Because again, I do not think BHVR is doing themselves a favor by wanting to have kill rates be at 60%. Not a smart move at all.
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@Bardon said:
"While the killer buffs were great, without compensation buffs on the survivor side, it's no surprise that kill rates increased too much."
I think the problem is that your personal definition of "increased too much" doesn't match the devs, so I'd prepare for disappointment.
What did you think they should go to? Could you clarify your position - where do you believe the figures should be?
It's an asymmetrical game so the killer needs to have an edge, given that it's 4 vs 1 so I believe that around 60% kill rate is good.
I think everyone will be in for a disappointment. I in general have been playing more killer since Wesker's release, so I have the same problem every other killer has: queue times.
I think the devs are in for a disappointment themselves if they continue thinking that 61% kill rates are the way to go, especially considering that swf survivors are part of that 39% escape rate, and killers have tactics like camping and tunneling. There is a reason killer queue times are generally much longer than survivor queue times. And I don't think ignoring that fact is a good idea.
Survivor players do not care what kill rate BHVR thinks is good. People want fair and balanced matches. And, at least in certain cases, that's clearly not the case right now. Not a smart move on BHVR's side if you ask me to try and have kill rates at 61%.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190300#Comment_3190300
Thinking someone is x main because of his views is what is immature.
Well I didn't say that everyone with such view points is a killer main, I just pointed out that this is something that some killer mains would want to believe to make them feel better. Because I do believe some people that try to find excuses do it because of that reason. Doesn't mean everyone with that point is like that though.
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@Carth said:
" it's no surprise that kill rates increased too much"
According to who? BHVR says they are currently pleased with the kill rate increase. With that in mind it makes zero sense to go "Kill rates are too low buff killers but then also buff survivors" with that logic kill rates will decrease back to what they were pre-6.1.0 and we would need to buff killers again.
I mean sure, if they are also happy with the clear increased queue times for killers, which are always longer than survivor queue times.
If the devs do think that 53% kill rate is too low, and 61% kill rate is good, then that's just a mistake on their part. There is a reason why killer queue times are clearly longer right now. And people playing survivor do not care whether BHVR thinks 61% kill rates are fine or not. People want balanced games, and right now, this doesn't seem to be the case enough. Clearly there are certain aspects of survivors that need to be addressed.
I also don't see any good reason why the game shouldn't be striving for more balanced 50% kill rates. It makes no sense. Both sides want a fair chance at winning.
There is absolutely no reason why we should strive for a 61% kill rate, and only 39% escape rate, especially considering swf survivors are also part of that escape rate, unless again people are striving for those juicy longer killer queue times.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190237#Comment_3190237
woah woah woah, this does not tell the balance of all tier of play whatsoever. Even the dev who posted it said take this with a grain of salt because it is a very surface level statistic. 90% of players are not high mmr and thus these would have no reflection on that. Also you have to think how much low/mid-low games are affecting these stats. Considering how early survivor is always going to be way weaker than early killer players, these stats really don't really give all on that much information on the state of the game. I do think solo queue needs some help, but only in the form of basekit info and more accurate matches.
Camping will need to be nerfed as well, and tunneling some more as well probably, if we want to go back to perfectly balanced queue times. If maps get improved a long the way as well, so we have less survivor sided maps, great. But camping, tunneling and solo queue information needs to all be addressed. We'll see what we get in the next midchapter update, but I am hoping for something good.
I said these stats show the balance of the game in general pretty well. I know that the balance shifts a bit more towards survivor at higher ranks. But you can not balance this game around high ranks and call it a day. The game also has to be balanced around middle and low ranks. That's why camping and tunneling need to be nerfed, because I do feel like those two strategies are particularly problem at low ranks, as the skill required to camp and tunnel is much lower than the skill required to combat those strategies.
These stats just double down on the knowledge that survivors need help now. Killer queue times are clearly longer, and it's not hard to see why anymore.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190226#Comment_3190226
I´m not going to try and explain how more variety, killers, strategies, different approaches, etc are a good thing.
Or how doing the same thing over and over becomes stale and boring.
Everybody knows that more variety is a good thing, but the different gameplay that allows for more variety still needs to be fun, or people won't care about the higher variety. Simple as that.
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@Shaped said:
"That's what you'd want to tell yourself if you are a killer main that doesn't want to accept that..."
Stoped reading there. Have a nice day.
That's a shame. And immature.
I hope you do realise that I didn't mean every killer main, just those that would tell themselves exactly such excuses.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190220#Comment_3190220
Then nerf the ability for killers to get 2 kills from 2 hooks. It seems to me if that was done, we would increase the ability for survivors to survive without nerfing killers who are going for hooks and not just camping to get kills.
That's why most people want camping and tunneling to be nerfed.
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@FlameLickVA said:
I just want to see the community NOT go into a small pp energy us vs them arguments over statistics for once, and actually professionally discuss balance issues like eruption against solo que players, or hyperfocus working with toolboxes and stakeout.
This is true. Though to be fair I do think there are already a lot of people that do not have this ridiculous us vs them mentality. It's just some people, especially here on the forums.
It should never be an us vs them though, it should always just be about getting this game into a better state for both sides.
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@danielmaster87 said:
It only goes to show that the stats are still analyzing the wrong thing. The average kill rate tells us nothing about how the game plays out at high level, let alone tells the story of the match. A killer who got 2 kills could either have had 2 hooks or 10 hooks.
It's definitely a good tell on how the game is balanced among all ranks in general. I think the amount of hooks are not as relevant when it comes to the game's average balance at first glance. Game's generally are balanced around their win conditions. Survivors are only escaping 39% of their matches, that's not very good.
This means that survivors need some help. Of course, you would want to dig deeper into stats as soon as it comes to how you want to balance the game. Obviously the game needs buffs to survivors that help against camping and tunneling, and that help solo survivors get more information. What we don't need are nerfs to killers fair and skillful playstyle.
However, in general, it does not matter how many hooks a killer gets on average when simply judging which side needs improvements next.
And also, the game can't only be balanced around high ranks. This should be pretty clear at this point.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3171193#Comment_3171193
Isn´t it ironic how people complain that holding m1 is boring but also don´t like killers that break the running in circles or shift w meta?
I am not going to try and explain why exactly people do not like going against Hag. In my case, it's probably just that chases against her are very boring, because you either trigger a trap, and get hit, or not, and get chased by a 110 movement killer. And in particular because she is such a camping master
Hag is not very beloved, simple as that. And I have no idea how survivors not enjoying holding w is an argument that they should actually enjoy going against Hag? Not even sure how that is related?
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I don't think Artist is op, even if she can hard counter loops some times. Not sure if she should be flat out nerfed, but some nerf to her anti-loop and buff to her range potential would be nice.
Nurse and Blight definitely need to be looked at. And Spirit has a few crazy addons.
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@Nihlus said:
Know why? Because there are so many more killers than survivors that they have to try and give an extra cake worth of BP to all survivors to try and incentivize people to play survivor to make up the difference. There's a reason for that. It's because killer has longer queue times because playing survivor right now is about the equivalent of cutting oneself. It's painful. Unpleasant. And as far from fun as one can get.
It's not that bad. Do people like you really not realise that queue times for killers would be much longer if there were actually more killer players than there are survivor players? It's just that a 4:1 survivor/killer ratio isn't given at the moment, but pretty sure there are still more people playing survivor than killer.
Solo queue definitely needs help, but this is just exaggeration I feel.
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@whampyri said:
They could turn devour hope into a perk instead of hex lol
That perk would be so broken in that case, pretty much an insta win for any half decent killer.
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@FridayNightPizza said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186817#Comment_3186817
It's just as obnoxious as the old one but folk give it a free pass because it takes "skill" apparently.
How is it as obnoxious? Almost everyone complained about it giving survivors free distance so they could reach a pallet or window they wouldn't have otherwise. It was stupid because it didn't have any counterplay for killers.
Now it doesn't do that anymore, and survivors instead have to time DH perfectly to be able to tank another hit. The payoff is bigger now, but it's harder to procc, and most importantly, killers now have fair counterplay against that perk. It's completely fine, I can't believe some are still complaining about the perk. It doesn't need to be nerfed into uselessnes.
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I can't believe some people would still complain about DH. It is so much more balanced and fair, and has counterplay on the killer's side. We don't need DH to become useless, it's in a perfect spot now.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3185850#Comment_3185850
Oh, killer-mains here already :)
So somebody says something you don't agree with, and you immediately just accuse them of being a killer main? That's sad.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3177849#Comment_3177849
It's because comments like that that we do not receive good stuff in the midchapters and instead a massive rushing. DS needs to be 5 seconds because it doesn't give you the chance to get away... that was all you needed to comment. Camping is a playstyle and, sometimes, a needed one. Is it unfun? Yeah, but it's a playstyle nonetheless and sometimes the only viable strategy a killer has...
There are some situations where killers have to camp and tunnel, but these have become much fewer now that killers were buffed.
Killers can win without camping and tunneling, simple as that. And the game can't be balanced around the few situations where killers have to camp and tunnel. It's time for survivors to get some help. Queue times clearly support this.
The tunneling nerf in 6.2.0 was a good start, but I really hope we'll get more in the next update. Camping needs to be nerfed as well.
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Wouldn't that screw over killers that have a fine connection? if the hitbox is located more in front of the survivor? Would be really frustrating to hit a survivor vaulting but the hit doesn't register.
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Dear lord that would make him op. In particular, his charge time and cooldowns should not be reduced in any way.
He is strong, he just takes some time to learn. He is probably one of the killers with a higher skill cap.
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I feel like there is also the problem of killers being more powerful at low mmr by design, because there is more about efficient gameplay that survivors have to learn as opposed to the killer.
Not to mention that chases, at the most fundamental level, are dependent on the survivors skill. If the survivor has no idea what they are doing in chases, the killer doesn't need to be good to get relatively quick downs. At least I believe that's a problem.
The game needs better tutorials for survivors.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3169755#Comment_3169755
Further proof of what I said! The community is too far gone in the mindset of 1v1 and not 4v1.
Killers power doesn't matter. You wanna prevent tunneling? Help your teammate out. Take a hit for them, take a chance of getting slugged/hooked for them, instead of asking for 1 perk to give you more breathing space.
It has nothing to do with a 1v1. Survivors just don't want to be tunneled. 5 seconds were great to punish the killer for that. 3 seconds not so much. It needs to go back to 5 seconds.
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@NotACompPlayer said:
make gens 80s again
nerf/remove rework prove thyself and bnps/toolboxes in general is what id like to see
There is no need to revert gens back to 80 seconds even if toolboxes get nerfed. There are other, much more important aspects that need changes that survivors would profit from.
Why merf killers by decreasing gen times back to 80 seconds if you could instead nerf camping and tunneling, and buff solo queue with new informatiin buffs?
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This has to be a joke right? You realise they can only do so much for a hotfix within a week? And fixing wesker kind of had priority, for the most obvious reasons.
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@Romovati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/345232/killers-playing-like-it-s-a-20k-tournament
Killer don't tunnel because DS was nerfed this is one of the most misguided thing people assume, It's actually because Killer's best slow down perks got nerfed to the ground to a point where they are useless. So before the perk rework you would get rewarded to go for hooks because you has ruin/pop to constantly create a snowball effect of slowing down the gens for hooking people but now you don't get anything from that and the gens fly so Killer's tunnel so that they get one person out of the game quickly to have a chance. Unfortunately BHVR didn't think about this when they decided to heavily nerf Corrupt/Pop/ruin
That is just not true. Killers might not get rewarded as much for going for hooks, when using what used to be the meta slowdown perks, but killers were generally buffed, so they wouldn't need such rewards anymore as much to be incentivised to go for hooks. Gens now take 90 seconds, which already gives killers more time to play normally. But they also received some small, other nice buffs that help in chase, further encouraging to go for hooks and not camp and tunnel.
Killers don't need to be rewarded for going for hooks as much if the base game simply already allows them to go for hooks more, by being more balanced around that. That's exactly what happened in update 6.1.0 The problem right now is clearly that tunneling and camping are too effective. The nerf to tunneling helped, but it wasn't enough. The DS nerf is 100% one of the main reasons why killers are tunneling more, if they really are. I haven't gone against too many tunneling killers the last days, but still.
The nerfs to meta slowdown perks were not as impactful as the buffs to killers basekit. Not to mention that other slowdown perks actually got buffed, the game still has a good amount of strong slowdown perks. If gens fly, then that is most often just a skill issue of the killer.
And yes, I do get that at high ranks, there can be situations where the killer kind of has to camp and tunnel, or the odds are stacked against them too much, and I do hope those aspects get improved as well, especially when it comes to maps. But often enough, killers, at least the stronger ones, have a fair chance to win even without camping and tunneling. One look at queue times and it's clear that right now, survivors are in more need of help. DS needs to be reverted, and we still need some nerfs to camping as well. Then queue times might go back to normal.