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@Blueberry said:
Other than showing the survivors each others perks in lobby I don't think there's anything left to add as far as what the community wanted to get solo closer to swf.
Hopefully we follow this with some serious map reworks for size and tile strength.
There is, I want to know when someone hears the heartbeat. SWF players have this info easily available.
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There is no such thing is "too much info" as long as SWF exists. SWF still get may more info and these action icons are supposed to bridge the gap between SWF and solo. I actually think there's still NOT enough info, I miss the "heartbeat" icon for example.
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Even if it could cause SOME additional toxicity, if someone doesn't do anything the entire game, he deserves it, but the advantage of the action icons still outweights any possible negative side effects.
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I would go with icons, I proposed this feature for 3 years and finally DEVs are implementing it, I'm exited. But whether action icons are going to be useful depends on how they implement them. Well, at least they are planning to add "being chased" icon for all survivors, that sounds good already.
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I'm gonna return to DBD and SoloQ when action icons go live. I hope they'll get implemented soon.
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They said "next year". So, hopefully it's gonna come in 2023. But they should have implemented it 3 years ago.
I refuse to play soloQ and DBD altogether until they improve soloQ.
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Killers have to learn to adapt instead of whining. You can't get spoonfed every time you don't like something. Just ignore teabagging or force survivors out. As simple as that.
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After the game was released, mainly because of the atmosphere, not because of balance. It was much moodier, darker, killers were scarier (no Legions etc), no daytime maps, no indoor maps and stealth was a viable strategy.
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@Seraphor said:
60% kill rate is still a 2K average on any individual game, because you don't get partial sacrifices.
Consider that the highest 5% MMR bracket has a higher kill rate than the global average, plus the lowest MMR bracket because newbie killer is far easier than newbie survivor.
So the 'middle 80%' is likely significantly lower, closer to 50% than 60%.
Game with DCs should absolutely not count, because those deaths may only have happened because of the DC. And what about killer DCs? Everyone escapes then.
Also, to speculate on why the top MMR rate is higher, I'd suggest it's down to SWF altruism. Games that for all purposes are not going the killers way, only to end up with the gates open and survivors trading hooks until at least 2 are dead.
Oh wow, another killer-main fairytale.
That's just something for the laugh, I think even many killer mains will find that amusing, quote: "60% kill rate is still a 2K average on any individual game, because you don't get partial sacrifices."
What??? This is just hilarious! Looks like someone lives in a parallel universe with different math laws.
Ok, just to debunk this "mathematical masterpiece" from a math "genius". 60% Killrate means that for every 10 games you get 6 games with 2k and 4 games with 3k. Look, no averages, I got rid of them on purpose, these the author of that post doesn't know what "average" numbers are and how to interpret them and thinks that all average statistical numbers just get reduced to their integer part in the real world LMAO
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256345#Comment_3256345
Something like in 10 games 7 2ks and 3 3k is a 60% kill rate and they also say nurse is balanced even at top mmr and isn't even in the top 5 killers.
You are not good at math, right?
Oh nevermind, you are a killer main and you just want to manipulate with numbers, that's nothing new.
7 2Ks and 3 3Ks is 57.5%. While 6 2Ks + 4 3Ks is exactly 60%.
And the nurse is not in the top killers, because there are many noobs who can't play her, so they skew the stats. But yeah, tell us some more killer-main fairytales.
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The secret to soloQ is to become a killer-main. All Killer-mains claim to have 110% soloQ escape rate and have "a LoT oF FuN" (probably without even playing survivor, but who cares).
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Just wait for killer mains or those who play "both sides eQuAlLy" coming here bragging they have 110% escape rate in soloQ without any proofs of course.
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AFAIK DEVS said the difference between solo and SWF was around 15%. That includes 2-man, 3-man and 4-man SWF, that also includes teams with VOIP and without. DEVs once showed an image depicting number of SWF groups by their size, it was some years ago:
It's still safe to assume that the amount of 2-man SWF groups is much higher then that of 3-man and 4-man. The difference between soloQ and 2-man SWF will be not that high and that skews the stats a lot. Add to that the fact that some SWF play without mics. So, the difference between SoloQ and an average 4-man SWF group with VOIP will be HUGE. The average difference of 15% between soloQ and SWF doesn't show the whole picture.
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@Archol123 said:
Most of the time survivors will just 3 gen themselves by not thinking about it strategically ... So it can be avoided most of the time... The hook situation on the other hand is kind of a good thing as some maps had really terrible hook spawns with created deadzones where you just could not hook anybody when they went down there, and letting somebody sit on the floor for 5 min sucks also... I came across those things a few times, especially midwich was terrible... like 1 hook in the entire side of the hallway, just a nightmare...
So, when killers couldn't hook someone, because they used some of the hooks previously, they didn't do it themselves? But still you needed help from DEVs, even though it happened so rarely. Hypocrytical killer-main mentality never stops to amaze me. "YoU dOn'T uNdeRstAnd, it'S dIfFeReNt".
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232585#Comment_3232585
? U think 59% is not balanced in an 1v4-Game?
LMAO of course it's not. Even if it's 1000vs1. You don't seem to understand what "asymmetrical" means. There are more players on one side, but the other side has totally different game mechanics available and is much stronger, which evens out the player count advantage. One side should never have higher win chances than the other, fairness is the basic idea of any game.
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Don't worry, stats will matter again when they will show that escape rate is too high. That's basically how the selfish killer-main mentality works.
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It's always the same, when someone comes and says "Hey, I have an easy solution for this hard problem" it doesn't work.
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If those stats are "useless garbage" for killer mains, then you will be ok if DEVs would strive for 80% escape rate and 20% kill rate. I'm fine with that too.
DEVs, give us 80% escape rate, killers don't care for the stats anyway.
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Give us action icons already. And make MMR team-based for survivors.
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@the_honey_badger said:
People forget that these numbers are accumulated from all the player base of the game. It's not just high mmr or low, the kill and escape rates are brought from the entire player base. So taking that into consideration, I think you can see that its actually good numbers.
Well, then you will be ok if those numbers were reversed. 39% killrate and 61% escape rate. Those numbers would be across all ranks, so they would be good numbers.
Oh wait, actually we had similar numbers after DBD was released and killers were complaining every day and were even doing several strikes for days, refusing to play DBD. But if Devs brings that balance back, I'm fine with it I guess.
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Thanks Google.
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More killer buffs? Like survivors starting the game already hooked? That's surely gonna be the most entertaining online video game.
If some side needs buff, then it's soloQ survivors.
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Killers' "power role" is just a way of some killer main kids to say "I want easy wins!!"
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Killers' "power-role" regarding killrate is bs. It wouldn't even work if killers were be AI controlled. And in a game where you play vs other humans this is just perceived as unfair.
What does the game gain from giving killers killrate higher than 50%? There won't be enough killers? This is bs again, even in the days of infinities, when survivors were overpowered and when they could self-care during chases and activate sprint burst without exhaustion, there were enough killers.
To accentuate the horror nature of the game? DBD is not perceived as a horror game by anyone who has played it for more than 5 games already. There's not a single reason for killers to have a killrate higher than 45-55%, apart from some biased killer-main who just want easy wins.
Killers having high escape rate is just unfair to survivors and they are the majority in the game. If making the majority of your playerbase frustrated from playing their game is what DEVs want then they have no idea how game balance and game design work whatsoever.
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As s solo survivor I would be ok with 45% escape rate, but ~30% is not enough.
Here's my objective view on what should be done balance-wise, without taking survivor or killer side:
- Fix tunneling/camping
- Add action icons (mainly to buff soloQ)
- Bloodlust is a good game mechanic, it helps to even out the discrepancy between bad and good loopers. While bad loopers do gown very fast, good loopers can loop killers for ages, it's hard to balance the game across all MMR levels like that, bloodlust should be more aggressive on its higher tiers.
- Jungle gyms/pallet towns can have more pallets/windows, but they should be spaced further apart from each other, so that a single survivor can't run the killer across half of the map for 10 minutes. Once you are done with a jungle gym/pallet town as a survivor you go down, unless the killer makes a big mistakes or you outsmart him. It will also help with balancing the game across all MMR levels.
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I don't remember when DEVs revealed the actual soloQ escape rate numbers and they probably won't anymore, because they'd show how broken the game is for soloQ.
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Killers-main babies are spoon-fed, the game has turned into a press-m1-to-win simulator.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3189412#Comment_3189412
Why should a bad killer always be able to secure a 1k?
Because they are killer-mains, they are privileged and survivors are merely there for their fun, didn't you know?
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The killer-main hypocrisy never gets old. When they lose to SWF they whine and complain that the game is unbalanced. When solo survivors get destroyed by killers they just say "nah, your teammates are just bad". And they say it to literally anyone who complains about solo, so looks like all solo players are bad. Solo players used to be god-like with 60% escape rate 2 years after the game release and then they all suddenly became "bad". Some killer mains don't even try to use their brain cells, why bother, all you have to do is spam m1 nowadays.
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@PaintedDeath said:
Soloq is in the best place it's ever been.
Way I see it, every game I have a 25% chance to escape base, off the bat, and thats fine. Those chances go up and down throughout the course of the match, but even at just myself left, and hatch closed I am not at 0% chance to escape. There is always an out, and finding it, grabbing it and riding it all the way out is the challenge.
There are people who like being beaten up, they are called masochists. Most of us aren't. SoloQ is in its worst state ever.
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@Nick said:
Luckily this is (and has been) in the backlog for over a year, and will get released in... over a year.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QG4S7MAY8K3X/ezgif-4-22b139f093.jpg
I want those icons + hearbeat icon. DEVs please wake up.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Solo survivor is in a good place balance wise, it's matchmaking that needs to be addressed.
It's just matchmaking? LMAO and you still believe in Santa Claus and fairies, right?
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@Omans said:
Solo survivors >> low tier killers > average swf >>> nurse/Blight = top swf
Solo survivors have little chance if the killer has equal skill and decides to play "dirty"
It's "<" ....
But yeah soloQ <<<<<<< anything
@DemonDaddy said:
Survivors suffer from matchmaking; which is not a balance issue related to play mechanics
Solo survivors can excel in every aspect other than outside help from comms
I don't know why some people keep posting this BS. SoloQ survivors suffer from bad balance, not from matchmaking. If you are bad at logic, don't even try to reason about things.
SoloQ used to be great years ago (in the days before slow vaults, window blockers etc were introduced) when matchmaking was much worse and before survivors were nerfed so much. Did all soloQ players suddenly became potatos and killers became so much more skillful? I don't think so.
If it was purely a matchmaking issue, that would mean that most soloQ survivors get matched to potato soloQ teammates and/or high-mmr killers. What about the bad killers and good soloQ survivors? They surely exist, they didn't magically vanish and they must be matched to someone too. They would even out the soloQ experience, but it doesn't happen. Oh oh, we have a contradiction there. This little thought experiment easily disproves your "theory".
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Pfffff, I 4k-ed almost all games even 2-3 years ago with Wraith, even before his was buffed, I made a post with all endgame screenshots on Steam forums back then. At least until I got to rank 5, then it became harder, my killrate dropped to about 60%, I just switched to Spirit and continued slaughtering survivors up to the highest rank and I'm really terrible at playing killer.
I can't even imaging how easy it is to win as killer now, I don't even want to try, because the balance of this game is so broken now. Only potato killers who can't even swing properly are still coming to complain to this forum.
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"DEVs are survivor-sided" - for the last 6 years the killrates were between 55%-75%. SoloQ is nerfed into oblivion.
Good joke 10/10
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@acharliet said:
it has been posted coupld times in this forum about SOLO-Q, also here is what I think:
- In SOLO-Q MMR matchking is almost never working, its RNG, its not matchmaking (my guess). U can be top high MMR survivor but u ll be paired into match with brand new survivor and playing against nurse main with thousands of hours.
- Since MMR is not working so well - doesnt matter how many times u die, same happening to me. U can die 9 out of 10 games and still you ll be often playing against some great and sweaty main killer player
- SOLO-Q - survivors cant share info, wish that part could be changes somehow, why I cant have some Icon info that my teamate is in chase or cleaning Hex devour hope while I m tryint to find the totem
- Buffing killers to increase killer rates ? - its about to feed killers with solo-q survivors. Buffing killers and killer perks is not neft towards SWF groups - my opinion
- Survivor perks/ killer perks - in SOLO-Q perks have not often so great synergy, also the reason is we dont know each survivor perks before match, SWF groups can work with strong perks really well, and have nice value of strong perks. Maybe also thats the reason some survivor perks sometimes being nerfed.
- DC / survivor who suicide on first hook - thats crazy how often this happening. Well It might not happen in 10 games and you can have fun but if u r unlucky to teamates this might happen in 5 games in row. I dont judge survivors DCing against nurse but some survivors DC against every killer I guess.
- Nurse/Blight - mostly nurses are now a bit stronger since the buff and neft to dead hard. Well I think Nurse is well balanced killer against great SWF teams - but the fact is that mostly killer players playing against SOLO-Q. Great adons + great perks are very strong used by these killers.
- CAMPING / TUNNELING- is still way so strong against SOLO-Q survivors - some can deal with that, but it depends. But mostly its strong against solo survivors and sometimes u might not be unhooked, nobody might take hit for u etc etc etc. In new patch there ll be new perks against campers, hopefully solo-q survivor ll use it tho. But I think it ll be again strong perk in SWF hands.
I wish in future the DEVS ll do something to improve SOLO-Q gameplay. But It might not happen for long time. If u have any chance - play only with friends. Even some good players, also streamers ll tell u to play with friends. I m playing SOLO-Q as well - but not so much anymore - I have over 4k hours and I m having way worse games too. But like I told - Its RNG, i can have fun in 5 games and after if i m unlucky - the next 5 games can be miserable because teamates ll DC, suicide, troll , throw the game etc ...
Matchmaking can't fix broken game balance for soloQ. If you get matched to bad survivors, then someone else must be matched to good survivors, where are all those posts that say "soloQ is too easy"? There are none. Official soloQ escape rate is around 25-35%. Quit this nonsens about matchmaking being the reason of bad soloQ experience. The matchking was horrible after the game release, but soloQ felt so much better and it was fun.
Matchmaking is working as intended, it just matches you to the best available players that fit your MMR, it's not always perfect, because otherwise you'd have to wait for much longer.
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This game has heavily favored killers for the last 6 years
Escape rate 2018 per map:
2019 Killrates per killer:
2021 Killrates per killer:
This game is killer sided and soloQ needs buffs, not nerfs.
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You can calculate the approximate solo escape rate from earlier stats that DEVs shared with us. Last time DEVs released stats the overal escape rate was 45%. After the last patch it is surely lower. AFAIK DEVs said that solo escape rate is 12% or 15% lower, I don't remember anymore.
So, yes, solo escape rate is around 25%-30%. And that also reflects my own escape rate during solo games, it's around 25-30%.
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You hate stealthy survivors in a stealth survival horror game? Just uninstall, this game is not for you.
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If soloQ and survivors in general get nerfed patch after patch, it's not wonder that all soloQ players SEEM to be bad, because the soloQ balance is awful now. Good soloQ survivors didn't magically disappeare, in a video game players are always as good as the balance of the game allows them to be. Killers don't have to be good to destroy solo survivors nowadays.
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It is a PvP game, not a game vs AIs, the average should be 2k, with 4k being an exception.
It's like saying "I have to play a near perfect game to get the highest score on my the team in CS:GO" or some other game. Well, yes, you do.
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It's a horrible and boring game mechanic for survivors, it's like a wallhack, not counterable by stealth no matter what you do. You just literally have a red sign above you "he is here" wherever you go. I think lockers and Distortion should counter it.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101621#Comment_3101621
I’m inclined to disagree with this view of the game though.
it’s an asymmetric survival horror if it’s true to source material then you’d be looking at a 3k being the expected outcome, with a 1 escape “last girl” scenario. As typical of the slasher films DBD emulates.
So, you want players to lose against other players in a PvP game in matches that are unfair and unfun to them, so it would better simulate "a typical slasher" movie, instead making fun and game experience the main balancing factor?
Should the slasher be always killed by the last survivor and always lose? And in Mortal Kombat Liu Kang should always win? lmao. Please grow up, but when you do so, never become a gamedev.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
Solo queue getting destroyed is not a fact. Solo queue was always inherently bad and always will be. Even if they add voice. That is just the nature of playing with randoms.
That's BS, after the release of the game solo was great for 2-3 years and my escape rate was 50-60%. Now it's 20-30% and most games end in 4k.
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Why I think "action icons" (who is being chased, who hears the heartbeat, who is working on a gen, who is healing etc) is the only good way to bridge the SWF-Solo gap
Proximity chat problems:
- I don't want to hear any people I don't know in solo games
- It will be abused
- it will destroy the atmosphere of solo games
- There's a problem with different languages, especially in Europe
- Some people will refuse to talk
- Some people can't talk, because they don't have a headset or for some other reason
- If Killer starts chasing you and you are far away from other survivors, how do you signal them that you are in a chase? Same applies to repairing gens etc
- 2/3 man SWF won't share any info with solo survivors
Chat-Wheel Problems:
- Many people are too lazy to use it
- If Killer starts chasing you, you have to press a button and choose the appropriate message, you simply don't have time for that or you will go down
- Each time you start working on a gen you have to press a button and choose "I'm working on a gen" message. Who would do that? And each time you stop working on a gen you have to press something else again? No one will do it.
- 2/3 man SWF won't share any info with solo survivors
- I don't want any additional GUI clutter
We already have state icons in the HUD, they just need to be expanded, why do we need a second system for information sharing? We don't. It's passive, it means the information doesn't rely on other survivor's will to share information, it doesn't require any input from you, so you can do more important things in the game, it's language-neutral, it's always available to all survivors.
"Action icons will also buff SWF": They will, but not nearly as much as soloQ, that's the main point. Solo and SWF will never be the same, we just need soloQ to be much closer to the level of SWF. It will make it easier to balance DBD the proper way and make more fair games for solo and killers.
"Survivors will be too strong after such a buff": no one is talking about buffing survivors here, if survivors will become too strong DEVs can buff killers or nerf survivors in a general way.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090144#Comment_3090144
They could add a language selector where you could add which languages can you speak. Then the matchmaking would create matches where there is a common language.
Also you don't need to tell poems, just a few phrases is enough: killer is chasing me, gen almost done, going for save... So you don't need to be that good speaker.
You want to split the matchmaking? It would make que times longer and there will be less teammates of appropriate MMR level available for everyone.
And if someone refuses to speak or has no headset it would defeat the purpose of such soloQ "buff". There's no need to make it so complicated. No thanks
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As a solo survivor I don't necessarily want killers to get nerfed, I want solo to get buffed, as close to SWF level as possible.
Here's the theory: SWF on comms have more information than soloQ. If DEVs implement new HUD icons which would show who is being chased, who hears the heartbeat, who is working on a gen, who is healing, then solo survivors will have access to almost the same information that SWF can share on comms. But it will also give some additional information to SWF, that's ok though, since SoloQ will profit from it MUCH more than SWF, the main point is we closing the gap between solo and SWF. HUD icons is a different approach than comms and it's inevitable. If survivors end up being too powerful after that, DEVs can buff Killers or nerf survivors in general.
There's simply no better way to do it. Most of the players don't want a proximity chat and I agree with that, it would change DBD too much. HUD icons on the other hand fit naturally into the game.
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071029#Comment_3071029
In what horror movie is there an equal play between the killer and a survivor , this should have stayed in Drafts.
If you don't know the difference between a movie and a game your thread shouldn't even exist here. DBD is a game, go watch horror movies.
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@JibbyNeutron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087652#Comment_3087652
I didnt know ignoring it makes the perk go away. Damn, I need to takle this in the psychological way
Once you grasp the algorithm behind this logic playing DBD becomes a cakewalk.
Too many pallets: break them if it's smart or ignore and go around them
Sweaty SWF: kill them or find another game
Gens going too fast: catch survivors faster or ignore and hook just the ones you can catch
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087652#Comment_3087652
Old ds: hit again
old dh: press m1 again
lol nice, beating perverted oversimplified logic with their own weapon.