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I wouldn't be against such a buff, but only once survivors have gotten some more buffs. Right now they are in more need of some help.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
They need to do a hell of a lot more than that, he's honestly one of the most scuffed killers in the game right now.
Onryo is more fun to play.
How? He is definitely potentially strong, he just needs his hitbox to be more reliable. Then he'll most likely be A tier. maybe low or middle A tier.
I do not see how he would need any other buffs. Just needs a small hit box increase and his bugs fixed.
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@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170683#Comment_3170683
Then we just need to revert the baseline killer buffs lol
Yes great idea. Instead of addressing the actual problems survivors have, like camping, tunneling, or the lack of information that swf survivors have, let's just nerf killers back to the state they were before, so no progress has been done at all. Fantastic.
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Would be a great quick way to really get killers to camp and tunnel less and play more fairly. Though a few gen regression and slowdown perks would have to be looked at in that case as well. Mainly just certain synegries between certain perks, like Call of Brine and Overcharge.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3171214#Comment_3171214
I disagree that Wesker's charge time necessarily needs to be significantly longer than Demo's simply because his Bound is better. Demogorgon has much better Killer Instinct than Wesker so it's ok for Demo to be a bit weaker in a chase. Demo finds and gets into chases more easily, Wesker is better once the chases start.
No I disagree. Not to mention I already think he is a bit stronger than Demo in chases.
He has 2 dashes instead of one, and he can vault pallets and windows. He has a lot of potential. The 1,5 second charge time is needed to give survivors a fair amount of counterplay, and that is exactly what anti-loop killers should have. A fair amount of counterplay.
Decrease it 1 second, or more, and you'll see much more people complaining about him not being that fun to go against, I am pretty positive. That'sd not what the game needs in general, and especially at the moment with killer queue times already being longer. Wesker needs to be both fun to play as and against, and that should stay that way.
Also, demo might have more map pressure, and I guess a bit of tracking, but Wesker has still a bit of map mobility, and some game delay as well. The sprays by the way also giving Wesker killer instinct.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
Take off .5 seconds off of it and reduce his CD time to 8 seconds.
Definitely disagree, and I am also pretty positive that won't happen, considering most people only have a problem with his hit box.
The 1,5 second charge time is 100% needed. Having two dashes is very powerful, the longer charge time makes it balanced. It's one of the main elements that gives survivors an actual, fair amount of counterplay for survivors. And we need more anti-loop killers like that, and not more like Artist.
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It is 100% needed. The fact that he has 2 dashes makes this a necessity. They will increase his hit box, and after that, people will notice quickly that he won't need any more buffs. A lot of people already agree that his hit box is the only thing of him that needs to be improved, aside from bug fixes of course.
The long charge time is one of the aspects that makes his power fair for survivors as well. We need more anti-loop killers that give survivors a fair amount of counterplay, not less. Especially at a time where killer queue times are already longer than survivor queue times.
Decreasing his charge time would be terrible, and I am fairly positive that won't happen anyway, seeing as how 99% of people are only complaining about his charge time and that's it.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166667#Comment_3166667
But is it though? If she was more prevalent or stealth was more popular. Then people would start to take Urban Evation. Which 100% counters her power.
Not sure how that would make her popular. Especially if people felt the need to always use Urban Evasion.
I also think Hag is just design wise not very fun for many people.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3166663#Comment_3166663
yes, i'm absolutely serious since the question was if other killers were nerfed after the ptb, not if those nerfs were done without reasons🙄.
btw dredge and sadako didn't received buffs as far as i know (or at least nothing gamechanging for them), pinhead was NERFED and not buffed (brown and green addons for the chain hunt cooldown nerfed from 10 and 15 seconds to 3 and 6 seconds and his engineer's fang nerfed, spawning only 2 chains instead of the usual 3). trickster was buffed after being released cause he was literally unplayable unless you were aganist people who were SO BAD that they could kill themself while the killer was afk. blight had hitboxes so weird and bad that was unplayable so i would call his "buffs" bugfixes. freddy didn't needed all the nerfs that he got, now it feels clunky and underpowered using him. artist wasn't a big problem since when she put down the crows she's also slowed down, so the counter was the same as it is now: W+shift. pyramidhead was overall nerfed because as i said his cages were visible to him, so his power gave also some useful informations and his chasing power could be easily faked, now both things are gone only for having his power more spammable (they didn't even buffed the range, which is already pathetic), a pity that this attack is extremely predictable and you can't aim freely due to the slow movement, without mentioning his ms nerfed from 4.4 to 3.6. plague could at least receive a buff for her puke being faster since it can be easily juked (not to mention that her green puke is extremely clunky due to server latency: i lost the count of the times that i should have infected someone and the survivor did the animation when hitted by the puke but nothing happened), especially when in indoor maps, making her a simple m1 killer, she recently received a couple of buffs that make her a little bit better (before survivors were able to completely deny her power since only one pool was available to collect her real chasing power from the start). i've a LOT of arguments as you can see...
You are just trying to make every buff to killers look like nothing but every nerf look like they hurt the killer so much.
Forget it, there is no reason to even discuss this with someone like you. Believe what ever you want, if it makes you happier lmao.
But I do have to address a few points. Pinhead, from the ptb into the live game, was buffed. His chains were buffed in numerous ways.
Pyramid Head had almost 0 counterplay, because he had no cooldown after canceling his power. If you dropped the pallet, you'd get downed. If you didn't you'd also get downed. He now has a 1 second cooldown, during which he moves at about 3,6 M/S. I am also not sure what you are on about with his movement speed nerfed from 4,4 to 3,6 M/S. He still moves at 4,4 M/S when using his power.
Also, the Artist nerf was not needed? What???
And Plague's puke can easily be juked? Lmao what? There is a reason why survivors often prefer to stay broken the entire game instead of giving her power.
No, you do not have any proper arguments. You are just looking at these things from what seems to be a very biased standpoint, that's all. But if you are one of those people that still believe killers are too weak then I guess there is nothing left to tell you anyways.
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@VexTheHex said:
Matches might be pairing people up with newer Survivors as the Survivor base has taken quite the hit going from always being the over populated side of the game by quite a margin to straight up being the underpopulated one. I think a lot of people who play solo are getting paired with newer (or really bad) Survivors to help fill matches for Killers making extremely lopsided matches in a current era where certain Killers are straight up busted and camping/tunneling is rampant. This also will tilt the solos and make them more likely to KOBE or DC adding to the problematic matches.
AKA Survivor side sucks atm.
I mean, we still have more survivor players than killer players. It's just the 4:1 ratio isn't given anymore.
I hope they continue to improve survivors in the next midchapter update. Camping needs to be nerfed as well. I sometimes feel like the survivor side could really need a better tutorial as well, as it seems there are a lot of survivor players that have no idea on how to play survivor efficiently.
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Killers are in the best state they have ever been. If you are still getting demolished by survivor teams a lot, then you are simply being outskilled. And I am not saying that killer is easy, because it isn't, unless sometimes when you hard camp and tunnel, but killers aren't underpowered anymore, in general at least. And even at top level they are much more viable now.
Survivors do need help against camping and tunneling. They did get some nerf to tunneling, which was great, but it's clearly not enough yet. Camping at the very least also needs to be looked in. Maybe then queue times will go back to normal again.
But the game has been dying for like 5 years now according to some special brainiacs, so I am really not too worried to be honest.
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Dude these posts are getting sadder and sadder
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@Fac_attack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3168917#Comment_3168917
Agreed, that second surv is better off distracting killers and buying more time, but of course that more logical strategy is not rewarded through blood points, which is its entire economy.
Yeah or splitting up on gens. Though I do believe that splitting up isn't always the best option, it surely is in a lot of cases.
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I am almost positive I know the answer, but considering all the posts I have seen here lately, I have to ask. This is sarcasm, right?
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@Rebecca1InTheChamber said:
The simply solution is for the game to reward hooks more than kills. ( And then balance the game so killers can actually go for multiple hooks reliably)
Killers got a bunch of baseline buffs in 6.1.0. They are in the best state they have ever been, and are now generally more viable. I understand that situations can still arise where the killer kind of has to camp and tunnel or the odds are stacked against them a lot.
But the buffs to killers were a great start, and now it's time for survivors to get some improvements. Tunneling has been nerfed a bit now, which is great, but camping also needs to be addressed. Killers can be buffed in the future again, but only then alongside more nerfs to tunneling and camping. And alongside solo queue buffs.
I also feel like the only improvements killers will still need are more balanced maps and buffs to low tier killers.
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Lmao I do not understand these posts. Tunneling and camping are clearly a problem seeing as how unfun they are to go against. So it's the job of the devs to make sure those strategies aren't as effective anymore. It's as simple as that.
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I feel like the survivor bloodpoint system could definitely need some changes. I for one also dislike how you get almost double points for repairing gens with another survivor than by yourself, even though that is not the more effective way to repair gens in a lot of cases.
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@CyberRoninX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/344689/bhvr-be-like-lets-nerf-all-survivor-perks
Right. Since they reinstated the bonus its been on survivor the whole time lol. Its funny that the devs can't see that they need to balance soloq somehow and soon.
Queue times aren't that bad at the moment to be honest. But yeah, perks are not the problem here at all. It's camping, tunneling, and the lack of information that swf survivors have.
Oh any maybe the biggest out of them all is mmr, and perhaps no effective way to learn how to play survivor more effectively.
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How are perk nerfs the problem? Survivors have clear base game issues. The one is camping, and tunneling to an extent still as well. And the other is the lack of information that swf survivors have.
And on the killer's side, it's low tier killers and badly designed maps.
And those are just the big picture issues. There lots of other issues as well, like overpowered killers, addons and items.
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His potential is A tier. It's just hard to actually reach his full potential, because of his small and buggy hitbox. It's just rather too unlikely to really get the full potential out of him at the moment. Once his hitbox is improved, he'll be most likely a perfectly balanced A tier killer, might even need a look at his cooldowns after using his dash to be honest.
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@Biscuits said:
I don't know about you, but Wesker might be better at tunneling than Pyramid head, they just haven't started doing it yet.
They should just have the infection of survivors go back to zero when hooked, instead of only to half progress.
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I agree. I finally feel like I can experiment more with builds now. It's definitely not a "solved" problem, killers can still tunnel, to a good effect, but it at least gives you more of a fighting chance.
And yes, they absolutely need to do something about camping as well, and nerf it in proper ways.
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I mean, it does make sense that you need evidence. Or people would just report other people for hacking just because they didn't like how they play or some kind of crap.
I got accused of cheating once when I played survivor, they said I was running at 110% movement speed, and healed instantly after being unhooked, even though it was just two survivors that healed me. Pretty ridiculous.
The other part is that they need to further work on their anti-cheat software.
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Yeah I do not think that has anything to do with his balance.
It seems like his hit box will actually be improved, and made a bit bigger. And besides that, he seems like a perfectly fair and balanced killer. They might tweak a few other aspects of him in the future as well, but in general, his design and balance is great and fair for both sides.
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He can vault them, that seems more than fine to me. He is definitely strong enough, he just needs his hitboxes and bugs looked at.
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Those situations are rare, because he needs straight line of sight to that window or pallet, to hit you, and this exists with a lot of killers, including Demogorgon, who is arguably the most beloved killer to go against.
He has a 1,5 second charge time and cancelation cooldown though, which actually makes the situation more fair than against some of the other anti-loop killers. You will have to properly judge if you can still make it through a window or not, and if not, you'll have to not go for the window and take the slim chance to dodge his dash.
Wesker doesn't even come close to Artist when it comes to having too little counterplay. He has a bunch of counterplay, and is actually very fair for survivors, and he still will be even after his hit box size gets increased a bit. Which is a good thing. Wesker allows for a lot of mindgames as well, especially at undropped pallets.
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Oh ok thanks a lot, that does sound good. Really hoping they will add the change next week already.
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Do you know where? And what changes were confirmed? Have they said they would increase it to 25 cm?
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Was there confirmation that they will be fixing his hitbox?
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@Albert_Wesker said:
I hope they tweaked to 35cm. Less than that, it wouldn't give the players the reward for good plays.
35 cm? 40 cm were like a truck. No way they will buff it all the way up to 35 cm, there is no way they would be that dumb.
Looking at the images, 25 cm looks like it could work well. 30 cm would probably also be good, but anything above 30 cm would be too much. It would reduce Wesker's skill cap too much and probably cause frustrating hits on the survivors side.
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My escape rate is still somewhere at 40% or 50% probably. At the very least least the last week or so. I have still been having quite a bit of fun with solo queue, especially now with the tunneling nerf. But it does need some help. Camping at the very least still needs to be nerfed in adequate ways.
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@_kostas_pap_207 said:
I played 4 times against wesker and 4 times I got tunneled
#########
I played 4 times survivor since he got released 4 times I broke my console . From then I am demolishing survivors as wesker
I've seen a lot of people complaining about weskers tunneling but why
His power it's not even designed to tunnel survivors but why are people like this. AND THEY ALSO DIDN'T HAVE A MORI SO THAT'S ALSO BAD
As others said. Tunneling and camping in general are just too strong. Easy way out, especially with camping still not nerfed.
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@Tsulan said:
Fascinating how the same people that complain about only facing nurse, blight and now wesker. Are the people that cherrish not facing hag anymore.
Kind of makes sense considering she is just a camping machine that no one enjoys going against.
When people say they want more variety in the killers they face, they don't mean more terrible options that are insufferable to go against.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162165#Comment_3162165
except freddy, plague (if i'm not mistaken she has a minor cooldown regarding her recovery after using the green puke), artist (before survivors took damage if they went into her crows, now they'll be simply swarmed) pyramidhead (his cages and later his chiasing power), just to name some of them...
Are you serious right now? Plague got a nerf to her movement speed while holding her power, so she would have at least a bit of counterplay when using her Corrupt Purge. She did get a bunch of other buffs as well though. And she received more buffs over the years as well.
Pyramid Head had almost 0 counterplay before they added a 1 second cooldown after canceling his power, and they even gave him a compensation buff as well. That had nothing to do with making him weaker after people bought him.
Artist is the same thing. Many people still don't enjoy going against her that much, but dear lord, her crows damaging survivors was so stupid, literally everyone was asking for that nerf.
And Freddy as far as I know was just very ill informed nerfs because of how strong he could be against low rank survivors.
Wesker is the first killer that was nerfed in a way that most people didn't see coming, and didn't want him to be nerfed. And it's not even clear if his hit box is too small, or if it's just buggy. I also wouldn't be surprised if they increase his hitbox to 25 or 30 cm in the next weeks, considering how many people complain about it.
Also, what about Dredge, Sadako, Pinhead, Nemesis, Trickster, Blight and so on? A lot of those killers were actually improved sometime after the ptb.
You have no argument whatsoever.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163235#Comment_3163235
You can't "position yourself quickly" because of the 1.5 second charge time. The only way you get hits as Wesker on any tile that isn't a 4 lane or T/L wall is if the Survivors make mistakes, unlike Demogorgon which can force Survivors into lose/lose situations
The first dash definitely makes up for the 1,5 second charge time in my experience. The 1,5 second charge time is 100% needed however, because it does still make sure survivors have fair counterplay as well.
I am sure at some loops Demo is better than Wesker. But there are also loops I am sure Wesker is better than Demo, even if those loops are less.
But that's fine, because Wesker biggest power comes from countering holding w. That's where he is clearly stronger than Demogorgon. He can cover much more distance, and potentially even get a hit against a survivor from further distances. This also gives him slighty better zoning capabilities in general.
He also has better game delay, but Demo does have better map pressure.
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@woodenEnthusiasm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3164976#Comment_3164976
What can he do that demo can't?
Position himself quicker for his second dash. Very helpful at loops like T-L walls.
Most importantly however, he can cover more distance than demo. His zoning potential that way can be a bit better, if you want to cut off survivors from a very strong loop. And he just generally counters holding w more effectively than Demogorgon, being able to catch up to them, and even potentiall get a hit against them, from further ranges. He is stronger than Demo in between loops.
And he also has some game delay as well, even though Demo admittedily has a bit more map pressure.
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@Huge_Bush said:
It's what happens when you play sweaty and increase your MMR. I die around 50% of my matches and maybe see Blight and Nurse once out of 15/20 matches these days.
Not a lot of killer characters can compete at high level and not get absolutely stomped on, which is why high MMR killers pick Blight and Nurse.
I mean, there are surely other killers now that can also keep up with really good survivors, if they are played just as well.
Thing is, Blight and Nurse are just overpowered at the moment, so of course those get picked the most. Blight only because of certain addons and unintended techs, but still.
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I mean you get I am not talking about those kind of instances when I say that some people complain about hitboxes even though they clearly miss, right?
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Wesker will surely be middle A tier once his hitboxes have been improved.
Maybe I am wrong here, but I still feel like Dredge fits into A tier as well, even if it's just low A tier. His map pressure is fantastic.
In general I do kind of agree with this tier list though.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Imagine complaining about bodyblocking. Killer mains want to take any agency, variety and options from survivors turning them into running bots of easy difficulty with zero willpower and chances on escape
Most don't, no. Just very special killer mains do.
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I went against him a few times yesterday still. And I only played lke 5 or 6 matches.
But yeah, I could imagine his hit box and bugs being one of the reasons why less people are playing him as well. I am still hoping they at least release a quick hotfix in the next patch, that at least addresses his hitbox. Fix the bugs with it, and maybe increase it to 25 or 30 cm, or something in between. And then we'll probably see more wesker players again for a few days. That will also make his other bugs more bearable.
I know I am still playing him however. He is still very fun to play regardless in my opinion.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
There is not much nice to say currently about the state of the game but somehow the playercount dont drops noticeable
It's almost like not everyone agrees with how bad the game's current state is.
Yes, there is still a lot to improve, but many people seem to still be enjoying the game. I for one am enjoying both sides at the moment.
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I am sure these are the type of posts BHVR will take seriously lmao.
As much as I want camping to still be nerfed as well, I doubt posts like these help. Especially considering they did just buff survivors anti-tunnel mechanic in the last update, and in a great way. And I am sure they will add more if it's still needed.
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If his bugs and hit box gets fixed, he will be a strong killer. His double dash ability is very good at letting him catch up to survivors, and it can be good at some loops as well.
He has good chase potential, a bit of map mobility, and a bit of game delay. He is definitely strong.
I don't know if he has his very own niche or purpose, but he doesn't really need to. He might have similarities to other killers, but he is unique enough, and definitely powerful when considering his entire kit.
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I'm sure it's both at times. Yes, wesker's hit box is a bit problematic, especially because it seems a bit buggy.
But I am sure some also complain about his hit box after dashes that wouldn't have hit even with the truck sized hitboxes from the ptb.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162545#Comment_3162545
Please, please show me a single tile where Wesker's Virulent Bound is better than Demogorgon's Shred.
Please!? I've asked this so many times and I've never, ever got an actual answer. I'll cry of happiness if you manage to show me a single ######### tile
T-L walls or Jungle Jyms for example. if not stronger, than at least just as strong.
Kind of any tile that Demogorgon is good at. Wesker, in most cases, is at least just as good as Demo at those tiles.
The idea in a lot of cases is to use his first dash to position yourself quickly, and then get the survivor with his second dash. That is very helpful if the survivor is at the backside of the T-wall for example. You just dash to one of the corners of the wall, and then dash along the wall with your second one. Very effective. His ability to position himself quickly with his first dash, and then get the survivor with his second dash is one of the parts that makes him pretty good.
It also can create some very interesting and fun mindgames.
This is kind of ignoring his buggy hitboxes though.
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His bugs and hit boxes need to be looked at.
Other then that, balance wise, he is pretty much perfect. There need to be enough sprays for survivor to cure themselves from his infection. His ability in general also works perfectly. Survivors have a fair amount of counterplay, which is good, a killer should also be fun to go against. But he doesn't have too much, since wesker himself has a good amount of counterplay against survivors as well.
So while I do agree that his bugs and hit box need to be looked at, he won't need any other balance changes. His charge time, the recharge time, his collision box size, they are perfectly fine now.
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@N0rmanIn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3163188#Comment_3163188
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UNAEFFKAKD6L/ptbw.png
I've seen this image in another post on this forum (specifically here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/344165/weskers-collision-boxes-before-after-ptb), and looking at the current hitbox, the truth is that it doesn't surprise me that you can pass through survivors.
How does that hit box explain that you sometimes phase right through survivors? Clearly in that case the survivor must be within the 20 cm hit box area. I mean, on the ptb just a very small part of the survivor had to be within the hitbox area for them to be grabbed.
So I do think there is more to the issue than his hit box just being too small.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Vaulting pallets and windows is (currently) the best part about his power, as well as the zoning built into his kit.
If people camp a pallet and loop it they die, given it's a long enough loop (most are). If people vault a god window and you have LoS on it from a distance they die. If they play shack they need to play it like they're playing against Demo, which means there's a good chance they die. If people hold W mindlessly you can catch up and zone them away, and they either use more resources or die. If they get thrown (not slammed) into a wall in a deadzone/OOB boundary wall they die (can facilitate this better with the meme add-on + throw distance add-on).
His power's got a lot of utility even with its bugged hitboxes. Once they fix it he'll be solid. The only thing I want extra is for the second bound to recharge while holding the power. Pressing the button at 99.9% and having to cancel sucks.
At most pallet loops, vaulting will only get you a hit if the survivor is right at the pallet. If they only have a bit of distance, they will make it around the loop back to the pallet again, before you can hit them. If the survivors play it right that is.
Which is a good thing, because that does create some nice mindgames, especially at undropped pallets, because if you as a survivor are at a pallet, you will want to predict whether Wesker will use his dash immediately, in which case you want to drop the pallet immediately, since he can't vault until the pallet drop animation is finished, or if he will wait until you dropped the pallet, to then vault it, in which case you either want to wait with dropping the pallet, or keep running, depending on the shape of the loop of course.
I do agree that his power is quite good at zoning. If they do increase his hit box size, or fix the bugs with it, whatever is causing the issues, I could see them maybe loweing his movement speed during the cooldown after using his dashes, to make the zoning part just a tad weaker. But that might also not be necessary.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3162970#Comment_3162970
Yeah, I don't think it needs to be as big as it was on the PTB, but I've seen a bunch of clips now of Wesker just straight up passing through survivors so I think it does need to be larger than 20 cm.
Well the question here is, is that because of the 20 cm hit box, or because of some faulty hit detection that we didn't notice in the ptb, because in the ptb his hitbox had the size of a truck?
That's why I wonder if they really need to increase his hitbox, or if they just need to fix some bugs about his hit box. If they do just increase the hitbox size, I personally think 25 cm could already be enough, but I'd probably also be fine with the middle ground, which is 30 cm. Anything above 30 cm would be too much though in my opinion, considering it was 40 cm in the ptb.