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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208887#Comment_3208887
Can you actually prove there is significantly fewer people queueing up as survivor, because all the incentive system is doing is showing which role needs players to start games which will generally be survivor because the game needs 80% of the players to play as survivor for balanced matchmaking.
Not to mention the incentive do switch to killer here and there so it's not even like the game is always looking for more survivors.
I am sure they can't, because there aren't fewer people playing survivor than there are people playing killer. In fact, I am positive that there are still almost always more survivor players than killer players, because even just a 50/50 distribution would still result in longer killer queue times than we have now normally.
But that is also not the most relevant information. The fact is that DBD needs a good 4:1 survivor/killer rato. And right now that clearly isn't really given. Before the 6.1.0 update, queue times were pretty damn balanced. But not anymore, and to me that is good sign that survivors need some improvements. Tunneling and especially camping are the biggest problems for survivors, as far as I can tell, and those tactics need to be nerfed some more.
There have clearly been people that stopped playing survivor, and camping and tunneling seem to be the main reason for most people to dislike survivor right now. Killers got a bunch of buffs to help them with their frustrations, survivors now deserve the same.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208499#Comment_3208499
And i am also in EU, it just happens sometimes for one or two matches. 95% of times it always on survivors.
I loved how you took screenshot for the moment it was on killer and you made it from 9 pm to 11 pm for every evening.
You are not actually accusing them of lying, just because what they are saying doesn't fit your narrative, or? Because if so, that would be pretty ridiculous.
I am positive they aren't lying. Just yesterday evening, when I was playing, there were 50% bloodpoint incentives for killers for like an hour or two, which I believe was between 10 and 12 pm.
That doesn't change the fact that survivors have these incentives for like 90% of the time, and that when killers have bloodpoint incentives, survivor queue times are still always pretty fast, clearly showing that survivors are now in need of some improvements, most importantly by nerfing camping and tunneling some more, and/or by buffing solo survivors. But killers can sometimes have bloodpoint incentives as well nevertheless.
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@fulltonon said:
I've seen plenty of 100% or 50% of killers in a day, guess it's rather balanced unlike pre patch.
That feels like quite the copium to me. I was on vacation for like 2 weeks, but have been playing before and after that a lot. And yes, the bloodpoint incentives do sometimes appear for killers as well. But the vast majority of time, survivors have the 100% Bloodpoint incentives. There is no denying that.
This game has a shortage of survivor players. No, it's not nearly as bad as some people here would want you to believe. But it surely isn't great either. In the end, this game needs to strive for a 4:1 survivor-killer ratio. There is a clear imbalance in queue times.
And there are good reasons for that. Survivors just have too many frustrations to deal with. The balance gap between swf and solo survivors is one, but arguably the biggest problems right now are camping and tunneling. Those need to be addressed. All of them probably shouldn't be addressed without also addressing some more killer frustrations, but they still need to be addressed. And right now, some more nerfs to camping and tunneling are probably the most important changes that need to happen. That would maybe also finally get queue times closer to balanced again.
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@squirtinq said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211504#Comment_3211504
The buffs are what ails me more than what it should.
What buffs? The killer buffs? Because those were all good in my opinion, except for the Bloodlust buff.
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Camping is easily the most complained about problem at this point, and it's sad that still nothing seems to be done about it in the next patch.
It can't be completely prevented, but it sure as hell needs to be nerfed adequately, now that killers received bunch of buffs in the last midchapter update.
I'm not sure if it's really supported or anything, the devs just haven't done anythng to at least make it less effective. Which is very frustrating.
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@Brokenbones said:
DS is deactivated in the endgame
Apart from that the system doesn't really favour either side, I think the problem is how artifical it feels for both sides.
It really does just feel like a waste of time, at least currently, when issues like camping are so much complained about.
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Insane disappointment. The actual balance changes are not part of the update, the actual update is giving us pretty much nothing.
I was at least hoping for some fair and decent nerfs to camping, which hasn't received any nerfs yet despite being unnecessarily buffed in the last midchapter update. And then DS finally needs it's 5 seconds stun time back, arguably the worst nerf in gaming history.
A small part of me is hoping we will still see some balance changes when the 6.3.0 update goes live, but I am not very optimistic. BHVR's priorities are a bit questionable in my opinion, though I do appreciate all the work they have been putting into the game recently.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208867#Comment_3208867
It seems you are enjoying the standard soloQ experience.
I am doubtful this is the standard solo queue experience. More the standard solo queue experience of people on these forums.
Not saying that solo queue is fine, because it definitely needs improvements, camping nerfs being on the top of that list, but if this was the standard solo queue experience, I believe killer queue times would be much longer.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208262#Comment_3208262
You're again focusing on projecting it to be a skill issue when my point was only warning about how it can and is used to force a lose/lose scenario. You're then going on a ton of unrelated tangents from that point, using plenty of loaded language to try to minimize anyone who disagrees with your statements. I've already stated that the entire situation needs to be reworked, and that you're just trading one aspect of it for another by removing the mechanic without even considering why its there in the first place.
If you want to fix things, fix them right. Otherwise you end up like bhvr and keep introducing new problems alongside your fixes.
Dude at this point it's hard to even understand what you want. Loaded language to try and minimize anyone who disagrees with me? Whut? And unrelated tangents from that point? Nothing I have said is in any way unrelated. You said removing hook grabs would hurt killers too much, because they wouldn't have a way to punish hook diving. I then explained to you why I do not think that's the case. Those aren't unrelated tangents, those are the reasons I believe that removing hook grabs will not be unfair for killers in any way or form, and are indeed needed. But please, tell me what exactly of what I wrote is unrelated to the discussed subject?
Killers have received a bunch of buffs, and killers can still down the survivor going for the unhook. Which I think is more than sufficient enough. I do not think that removing hook grabs would introduce new problems, because I believe killers would still be completely fine without hook grabs. Getting a hook grab right now puts survivors into a really bad situation, just because of one move. That to me is ridiculous.
I also explained that I am positive hook grabs are only used by campers in 99% of situations, and the few other situations, where hook grabs are not used for camping, just aren't worth considering when it comes to a change like this, because nerfing camping is extremely important, especially when looking at current queue times. And again, especially with killers having received a bunch of buffs, I do not think a nerf would cause any problems, even to non camping killers.
Just out of curiosity, how would you fix this problem? In a way where camping is clearly nerfed like it would be by removing hook grabs?
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202054#Comment_3202054
Because it hurts my feelings when the gens get done too quick, just like how survivors' feelings get hurt when they don't have free Endurance and Haste off the hook.
Well one big difference here is that, at least in the majority of cases, it's the killers fault for letting gens get done so fast. Not always of course, and surely at some point it would be nice if those situations, where killers had very little chance to do anything, get addressed as well. However, when it comes to being tunneled off the hook, there is nothing the survivor that was unhooked can do to prevent that. They just would go down immediately after being unhooked, and the basekit BT now at least gives them a bit of a fighting chance.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202398#Comment_3202398
What exactly? Gen-Times 10sec longer? Yeah, awesome, 4 weeks later we saw Hyperfocus and u can finish a gen in 40 seconds. Look at Otz Video.
Pallet-Breaking 10% faster? Unbelievable, it matters nothing, because the next safe loop is nearby thanks to awesome maps.
Gen-2,5%-Regression? Oh yeah, for that we had to sacrifice EVERY Gen-Regression-Perk besides Pain Resonance (for.now!). Overcharge is laughable, Ruin is completely annihilated.
What else did Killers get? Oh yea Stun Duration and less SpeedBurst after first hit.
Who cares? The next junglegym is 5m away, you benefit nothing out of this.
You want to.know why the killrates are a bit higher? Because Deadharding for Distance to reach the next loop is gone, if u mess up. So the 3rd chance-perk if u wanna call it so.
Thats all, Deadharding for Distance is the main reason why killrates are higher.
61% is absolutely fine, it should be 60-65%. Now you will say: wait, 50% is balanced, right?
No its not, because you have to see that in noob-games everytime you will see a 100%-killrate, so 53% was literally underpowered.
On top of it: who cares about general-killrates? The game should be balanced around "how many hooks can a killer reach for X Gens done", not how many kills.
On top you need to understand that these stats are from the whole killer-roster, but what are the numbers on every killer on its own? Nurse on average will have 80%+, while others will be happy if they can manage a 2K with a necessary camp or tunnel.
Kill rates do matter. They give a good indication of how the win rate is just in general I get that the kill rate goes higher the lower you go in ranks, but those lower and medium ranks also matter. The game can not only be balanced around high ranks. The devs have to try and balance the game for all ranks.
So no, I do not think 61% kill rates are fine. And it seems like many people don't. There are good reasons why killer queue times are clearly longer than survivor queue times, and ignoring that won't get you anywhere. Sure, they are also longer because survivor can be so unfun at the moment, but that's also exactly what the devs need to address, nerfing the unfun strategies for survivors to go against. And of course buffing solo queue, but all of that combined would probably also require some more killer buffs, like map improvements.
So in the end, if BHVR really does keep on with balancing this game, the game will gradually become better for both sides.
Also, if you think that the buffs to killers weren't impactful, then fine, but I, and it seems like most people, disagree. The extra 10 seconds on gens definitely was noticeable, and I surely am not alone with that opinion. And while killers had some of their slowdown perks nerfed, they also had some of them buffed, and still have a bunch of viable slowdown perks. Some slowdown perk synergies are arguably a bit too strong. But that's hard to tell. All the other small buffs combined definitely make a nice difference as well. Not a huge impact of course, but still an impact.
Hyperfocus, at least with Stake Out is a problem though, I do agree, but you do not see those builds in the average match. Nonetheless, I do hope they address Hyperfocus and Stake Out in the coming update.
Also, I am sure that Deadharding for distance removed definitely also helped increase the kill rates. But you are right, that one change alone was a clear buff to killers, so that is yet another buff that can be added to the list of buffs that killers received, right? It clearly has made killers stronger, especially at high ranks because that's where Dead Hard was used most effectively.
Killers are clearly in the best spot they have ever been, and also arguably in a better spot than survivors. Admittedily though, I am hoping for some more nerfs to camping and tunneling, and if that happens, I won't care too much about whether basekit Unbreakeable will get into the game or not. But it's clear, especially when looking at queue times, that survivors are now in need of some improvements.
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Addon balance does seem weird. It is also so weird that out of all killers, someone like Blight would have such strong and impactful addons. It needs to surely be addressed.
To be fair, Pyramid Head really does have bad addons, but I fear buffing all his addons noticeably might make him a tad too strong, because his basekit is already really strong.
I do think they have improved though. At least both Dredge and Wesker have a very nice amount of good, but not overpowered addons. Wesker in particular just has a bunch of good addons, maybe a few bad one, but that's it. The only problematic addon is the one that starts suvrivors all infected, that one is a bit too strong in my opinion, and 100% needs some downside.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208202#Comment_3208202
This is a very Survivor Sided change. Now Slugging strat to apply pressure is out the window the Killer perks that were changed are worse now compared to the Survivor ones that only benefit the basekit change.
Unless you play a Killer that can quickly get downs IE Bubba or Nurse then the quickly end the game is a moot point.
I was on the fence but after reading the changes fully and laying out who got what I came to the conclusion that this is more Survivor Sided than Killer Sided.
Personally I wouldn't call it very survivor sided. I do not think this change will affect the balance of the game too much, but yes, I do agree it is survivor sided, it will surely improve survivors gameplay, no doubt.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208214#Comment_3208214
My statement was that you were literally only considering the issues of one side and not the other. You're not even acknowledging the difference between a hook trade and grabbing someone before they can get the unhook in your reasoning, and trying to brush off a legitimate concern with skill issue posturing. Thats not how you fix issues that cause problems for both sides.
There is a difference, surely, but killers do not need the ability to grab survivors off of hooks, to have two survivors downed at once. That little amount of skill should not be awarded like that.
Killers received a bunch of buffs, that already made them clearly stronger. They now need these kind of nerfs for survivors experience to become fairer again. And again, it's because this change would mainly only hurt camping killers, those very few other instances just don't hold enough wait against that.
It's not a one sided view at all if you also consider all the buffs killers received. This is how the game will continually become better for both sides. Killers received a bunch of buffs, now it's time for survivors to get some help as well, especially against the crappy strategies like camping and tunneling. And if there are those very rare other instances that would also get nerfed by that, then that's simply a necessary evil.
And if, at some point, survivors have received too many improvements, and killer becomes too hard, the devs then can look into buffing killers again, but in much more healthy ways. Map balance improvements immediately comes to mind. I would love this game to get into a state where we could see better map balancing, but the game surely isn't in that state at the moment.
Or we can just not give survivors any other buffs anymore, but that clearly isn't doing the game any favor. Again, killer queue times are clealry longer for good reasons.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208150#Comment_3208150
Every down while playing Twins, as a simple example. Oni and Sadako also have legit need to slug as well.
Fair enough, certain killers will suffer more of this change. I do not think Oni will become unviable though, for example, he will still be strong. Killers like Twins will suffer greatly though.
But in my opinion, that's more of a problem exclusive to them and their design. Those killers instead should be addressed.
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@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208173#Comment_3208173
To show disrespect for the PLAYER can be a taunt, yes. It is nonetheless displaying disrespect.
Keep in mind, when you read my text, that 90% of ma matches are as survivor. Camping and tunneling are not extremely unfun, they are not ruining a game and are not very unhealthy. You have to broaden your logic to that: there are 5 players needed to play a match of DbD. 1 person has to play to role of a killer and 4 persons have to play the role of survivors. How can you say that basic tactics of killers are extreme unfun if you keep in mind, that not all 5 players can win the match? Some players have to loose, some can win. You are asked to accept defeat. Survivors are not entitled to get free escapes.
If you do not have such a problem with camping and tunneling, good for you. But obviously most people do.
I am a killer main, but I do play both sides, and know exactly how ridiculous camping and tunneling are. Not only are they completely unfun for most people, but they are also ridiculous in the way that they are just easy way outs for killers. It takes very little skill to just stand in front of a hooked survivor and wait until they die, and tunneling them out of the match also doesn't take that much skill.
It reminds me a bit of Bastion in the lower ranks of Overwatch, just far, far worse.
And a few people claiming that camping and tunneling aren't actually that unfun to go against does NOT change the fact that most survivor players indeed find those strategies very, very unfun. It also won't magically balance out queue times again. There are good reasons why killer queue times are clearly longer than survivor queue times.
Also, that last argument is beyond questionable. How does one come to the conclusion that the complaints about camping and tunneling are because survivors want free escapes? Just how? People complain about camping and tunneling because they are so unfun to go against them, that is the simple truth. And camping and tunneling nerfed certainly doesn't give survivors free escapes, not even close.
I also have no, absolutely no idea, how the fact that "not all 5 players can win the match" changes anything about the problems people have with camping and tunneling? The reason why people say camping and tunneling are so unfun to go against is because they simply are so unfun to go against, because you don't get to play the game in any proper way. Especially when you are just camped to death.
You can dismiss the opinions of what I am guessing is 98% of the survivor player base, but that won't change anything. And people that simply get too fed up with those tactics simply will stop playing the game, no matter how often you tell them that camping and tunneling isn't actually that unfun.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208167#Comment_3208167
Pretty one sided take, since removing them entirely means that survivors can divebomb the hook without risk or penalty. What happens when survivors lead chases directly to the hook while healthy? They just get a free save for basically sandbagging their entire team? Its a necessary evil until they come up with better means to address the situation uniformly.
Not really one sided in my opinion. I believe a lot of killer players agree, and I am a killer main myself.
Survivors wouldn't be able to dive bomb without punsishment? Removing hook grabs doesn't cause killers to cease existing. They can just down the unhooked with two hits. And if you are already in a chase with a survivor running to the hooked survivor, in most cases you already injure the survivor on their way to the hooked survivor.
The only killers that couldn't punish survivors anymore for hook diving are killers that simply aren't good at the game. In 99% of cases where hook grabs are used, they are used by camping killers.
And it sure as hell isn't a necessary evil anymore. Killers already received a bunch of buffs, now it's the survivors time for that. Killers will still be strong without hook grabs.
Unless of course we want to keep holding on to the longer killer queue times.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
As things have been for the entire year, killer sided.
Why would you say that these changes are killer sided? Also I do not see how the basekit BT buff was killer sided.
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Are you talking only about the change? Or how the game's state will be after the patch?
I feel like even now, it's hard to call the game either killer or survivor sided. Good survivor teams, even now, can make killers matches very challenging. Whether a match might be tilted towards one side or the other, is also dependent on so many different factors, especially map and killer.
Though on average, I would definitely say the game is probably killer sided at the moment, because of solo queue, tunneling and camping. And if we are talking about how the game will be with the new mori and basekit unbreakeable update, then I would also agree that the game would probably, on average, still be a bit killer sided, if we are assuming that we won't see any other balance changes in the coming update, which I highly hope is not the case.
And that will probably stay like that until we see more nerfs especially to camping. The fact camping still hasn't been nerfed despite it actually being buffed in the 6.1.0 update is baffling to me.
If we are just talking about the changes though, I do think that these changes will be a buff to survivors. But not nearly as much of a buff as some people make it out to be. Only the newly buffed Unbreakeable seems very problematic to me, and that's it.
I am honestly very much hoping to see some other good balance changes, that actually will arrive with the coming update. And I am very much hoping for some basekit nerf to camping, as well as DS buffed back to a 5 second stun duration. Kill rates and queue times clearly show survivors need a bit more.
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@WipeIncGamingYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207595#Comment_3207595
Teabagging is meant to disrespect the killer, slugging is a strategy to win as killer.
Also, the one is only a visual taunt, while strategies like slugging, but more importantly, camping and tunneling, are just extremely unfun to go against, ruining gameplay, and very unhealthy for the game.
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@Roaroftime said:
Hook grabs are also broken, either needs to be quicker for the survivor to unhook someone or hook grabs removed altogether to help punish camping.
They 100% need to be removed. It's an outdated mechanic that in 99% of situations is used by campers.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204043#Comment_3204043
Slugging is one of the only counters to certain survivor playstyles; if they want to take away slugging they also need to take away the survivor playstyles that necessitate it.
Another perspective is that slugging is how you punish survivors being caught together. How should the killer punish that mistake if these changes go through? We allow survivors to throw the match and still win, or do we just say that staying grouped up is actually good now?
See that's the thing. Slugging is not being taken away, it's just being made less viable, but certain situations where you want to slug, you can still slug. This self pick up suddenly won't turn situations where you want to slug into an automatic loss, since the survivor will still just be lying there for 45 seconds doing nothing. That is just such an exaggeration.
So yeah, if you can down one survivor quickly, and then go for another survivor, you are still punishing them. That survivor will still be lying on the ground for 45 seconds. And you can then get another down on the next survivor. If it does take too much pressure away from killers, BHVR can still change that. Or simply buff killers in a different, healthier way.
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@fulltonon said:
There is thousands more situations where killers needs to slug without abusing it in any way, it will affect them, and it will be game breaking.
Anyone saying "it won't affect normal match" just don't know enough situations that can happen in a game.
What other thousand situations are there?
There is only one I can think of, and that would only become a problem if the devs do finally listen to the community about DS and buff it back to 5 seconds.
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@Seraphor said:
The real reason is that killers are also players and they also want to win.
Every buff survivors beg for and receive, every avenue of applying pressure that is removed from killlers, everything that makes the killers objective more difficult, merely drives them to employing cheaper, sweatier, more efficient strategies.
Every advantage survivors rejoice about, leads to more camping and more tunneling.
Well survivors right now are mainly begging for buffs against camping and tunneling. So that's exactly what needs to happen in the game. And those surely wouldn't make killers tunnel and camp more. I mean, what buffs have survivors received in the recent past that would further increase tunneling and camping?
Killers already received a bunch of buffs in the last midchapter update, survivors now need more help against camping and tunneling, clearly.
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@TheWheelOfCheese said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204018#Comment_3204018
Survivors don't need buffs, solo survivors do.
This proposed change is a huge buff across the board, and SWFs, who are already strong enough, will be made substantially stronger. If they were going to make anything basekit, it should've been Kindred.
It's a buff against a very unfun to go against strategy. But won't really buff swf survivors in any other way.
When it comes to strategies like camping, tunneling, and even slugging, it's fine if swf survívors get buffs as well. Of course, we still need those information buffs for solo survivors as well, to reduce the balance gap between solo and swf survivors. And ideally, we then also get some more changes to help killers along the way as well, getting rid of the aspects that are too powerful in the wrong hands. Maps are the biggest issue that come to mind in my eyes. We still have some maps that are clearly survivor sided. Arguably certain toolbox combinations, especially a toolbox with a Brand New Part, and to an extent medkits, are also too strong.
But changes that simply nerf unhealthy strategies in DBD are a good thing. No matter if they also help swf survivors. That's why I am also still hoping we will see some more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the upcoming mid chapter. If killers need some help as compensation after that, then the devs can react with some buff to killers as well. They clearly have been stepping up their game at trying to balance this game better for both sides, even if some temporary new problems arise as well.
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Unbreakeable alone will be insanely strong. I am happy about the basekit 45 seconds Unbreakeable, but the new buffed Unbreakeable will be a big problem if it goes live with those recovery speed numbers,
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Nah I doubt most killers will stop playing because of this change. Probably won't have a lot of impact at all.
Killers got a bunch of great buffs that helped them out a lot, now survivors are the ones who deserve some buffs. I am still hoping we get some more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the next patch. That's arguably what the game needs the most.
You can't just buff killers but not give survivors some improvements as well. Survivor is in a rough spot at the moment. Solo queue isn't dead or anything, unlike some believe, but it surely isn't in the best spot either. Queue times clearly show this as well.
If a few killer mains do stop playing this game because of such a change, then I am fine with that. Will maybe even out queue timea again, finally.
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@Kirahie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202101#Comment_3202101
Swfs will abuse this to high hell.
22 second self pick up means all you have to do is be under a pallet when you are downed. If you do this, the killer will never get a hook because if they pick up, they get flashed or pallet stunned, if they don't pick up and chase the other person with the light, they also can't be picked up if they go down under a pallet.
I seriously doubt that Unbreakeable will make it to the live game with 100% increased recovery speed. The basekit 45 seconds unbreakeable will be very good for the game, but I also agree that the buffed Unbreakeable will be a huge problem. And I kind of doubt the devs won't notice that in the ptb.
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Lmao how? Also, you realise that this game right now has a clear shortage of survivor players? This game needs improvements for survivors now, so no, I really don't think this will become a problem.
I am a killer main, and I surely won't be playing the game any less after this change goes live. In fact, I am really hoping for more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the 6.1.0 update, which are still too effective. I also want solo survivor buffs, though to be fair, these changes all together would also require some further improvements for killers as well, mainly map balance improvements, as some maps are still somewhat survivor sided.
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@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202501#Comment_3202501
"every killer would just slug every survivor at five gens"
Do you seriously think this is possible for the majority of the killers? Please enlighten me on how you would achieve that with Trapper.
"Some nurses can already do this now, but it'll be the optimal/fastest way to win if they implement it."
Nurses are already doing it in this patch. Adding Last Standing doesn't change anything because they are already doing it. Also, as I said, if you slug all survivors, it's game over most of the time already. Adding Last Standing doesn't change much.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202486#Comment_3202486
Unbreakable only takes 24 seconds to use. Usually, chasing the last survivor will take longer than that, so they will already get a chance to use Unbreakable. If it takes less than 24 seconds, you can just hook the first survivors you downed to avoid Unbreakable.
It would be more rewarding to go for the 4 man slug, as you are immediately rewarded with a win now. That's I think the biggest problem.
You should not reward killers more for using a strategy that is not fun to go against. Tunneling and camping are already a serious problem, and slugging would become more frequent too. So this change will need to happen, and I really doubt they won't go through with this. They certainly don't want even more people to stop playing survivor, that's for sure.
If the main focus here really is only to nerf slugging, then that's fine for me as well. This is surely a healthy change for the game in general. Especially now, with there clearly being a shortage of survivor players. Though I for one am still hoping for some more nerfs to camping and maybe tunneling in the upcoming patch. If they do that, I wouldn't be so mad if they didn't go through with this nerf to slugging, but as I said, I see no reason why they wouldn't go through with it. They do seem to be improving this game step by step, even if the game faces some new problems along the way.
The Unbreakeable buff is the only problematic aspect here. Being able to pick yourself up an unlimited amount of time within 22,5 seconds will be completely busted in my opinion.
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You really think they won't go through with this, considering all the positive changes that killers got in the past? I am really not sure that would be a smart move, unless survivors are getting buffs in different areas with the next update as well.
It seems fine. 45 seconds is more than enough time to find any nearby survivor and chase them away, so you can either pick the downed survivor up, or just go for the other survivor if you think they might be an easy down.
The buffed Unbreakeable is going to problematic though. Being able to always pick yourself up within 22,5 seconds is going to be mad broken. It should just keep it's 35% increased recovery speed values.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202728#Comment_3202728
For some reason, plenty of reactions for the changes of survivor side has been famous for NOT being overreaction, boil over, coh, endurance rework, ALL of those "overreacted" changes were actually not fine at all.
I'm sure this is no different.
There have been so many overreactions, yeah. Sure, a few were justified, but not that many. I really doubt that will be the case with this change.
Like there have been so many new survivors perks where some people always overreacted on how strong they were, and in the end they were not changed at all, and ended up being completely fine, or often underwhelming in fact. The few instances where that wasn't the case, which you mentioned, doesn't change that.
Killers got a bunch of buffs in the last midchapter update, it's ok for survivors to get some improvements as well. Especially if we want queue imes to go back to normal again. I have no idea how 45 seconds unbreakeable as basekit will be a problem. It will just nerf hard slugging, and that is healthy for the game. The few problems that might arise, which in general are just a few killers being affected by this noticeably more (Twins in particular), are issues that need to be addressed seperately.
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@Laluzi said:
Yes.
Fending off one survivor near a pallet probably won't be an issue, but multiple? There's no way to win that situation. Even if they screw up, you can't down people faster than the guy on the floor can pick themselves up. Those situations were always wars of attrition and now the killer loses them by default.
Unbreakable + Soul Guard in a bully squad is immediately a no-win scenario. You can't do anything unless they screw up the save or bodyblock.
But that's at least 3 survivors not on gens. I doubt that will become a big problem if you are skilled enough as killer to deal with those survivors. It will surely be fine.
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@Kirahie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202481#Comment_3202481
It will take them 22.5 seconds to get up after being dropped. They get free anti pressue and the killer gets nothing.
With Unbreakeable, yeah. That's why I agree that perk will become problematic if it actually gets buffed like that, but I can't see the devs going through with that.
But the basekit 45 seconds Unbreakeable will be completely fine.
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Really doubt that will happen.
Personally, I believe this is yet just another overreaction to a balance change. Just like people calling solo queue dead after the killer buffs. I am positive it will be fine, slugging is an unfun strategy to go against, so it being nerfed a little is completely fine. The exception here being the buff to Unbreakeable, which seems wildly broken. It should just keep the 35% increased recovery speed and that's it.
I am glad the devs are conitnuously trying to add changes to the game that improve the game. While the killer buffs were not the best idea without any compensation buffs on the survivors side, they were very good for the game. Making killers a little less perk dependent, and generally just a bit stronger.
Now we got the anti-tunneling buff in 6.2.0, and we are continuing with a nerf to slugging. It's pretty good. I personally just hope we will see some more nerfs to camping and tunneling in the 6.3.0 update, cause I am hoping we will be getting more changes that weren't talked about yet in that patch, bsurely the midchapter update will not just contain bug fixes.
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Yeah I am pretty sure this is going to go live at some point. Maybe with some small alterations, but it will most likely go live.
Killers got a bunch of buffs in the 6.1.0 update, and they did indeed go through with all those changes, it's fine for survivors to get some nice improvements as well. People will have to deal with buffs to survivors as well, just like people had to deal with all the buffs that killers received. I also just really can't see BHVR going back on a change like this that favors survivors, after having gone through with all the changes that improved killer. Not a smart move, especially considering queue times are clearly longer for killers.
Being able to pick yourself after 45 seconds should not be a problem. It will really only nerf hard slugging, which is a very good and healthy thing for the game. The new, buffed Unbreakeable will become a huge problem if it actually gets released with 100% increased recovery speed, no doubt. It should probably just stay at the 35% increased recovery speed, which will be good enough considering the ability to pick yourself up now can be used an unlimited amount of time. But the basekit 45 seconds Unbreakeable I am sure will be completely fine.
But yeah, survivors getting changes that benefit them is also completely fine. It's not only killers that have to benefit from changes. I do really hope we will see more nerfs to camping and tunneling, because I do believe those are bigger issues than slugging, but I am very much looking forward to this change as well, it will be very healthy for the game.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201061#Comment_3201061
Where is this us vs them coming from? And how do any of those 0.2second changes even come close to getting two meta perks for absolute free? If the issue was actually because nurse could 4k slug at 5 gens, then it needed a much more targeted response.
How is being able to pick yourself up after 45 seconds better than Unbreakeable? I guess Unbreakeable was a one time use perk, but still. Those slugging situations are not very common, and you generally don't get to use it more than once.
Killers got a bunch of solid buff in the last 6.1.0 midchaper update. Those buffs weren't perks added to basekit, but that doesn't make them any less impactful.
Kill rates are at 61%, and queue times are always longer for killer. It's good that survivors are getting some improvements now, and I for one am also hoping for a few more nerfs to camping and/or tunneling in the coming update as well. I hope they at the very least buff DS to 5 seconds again, that is a must.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm having a hard time seeing where this becomes hugely problematic. 45 seconds is a long time to be in a 3v1. If you're being forced to slug, 99% of the time it's because you have an immediate chase option and those are situations where you wouldn't be picking up/hooking anyway. They're typically easy wins when teams try to gang up around the killer.
I have the feeling there are people here that blamed survivors for overreacting so much regarding all the buffs killers got in the 6.1.0 update, and are now overreacting to this change themselves, because now it's a change that favor survivors. It's only a few I believe, but still pretty damn hypocritical of them.
I am positive that people here are just overreacting on these forums. That doesn't seem like an uncommon theme anyways. We will see, but the only problem I see is the buffed Unbreakeable, which is going to be way too strong. The basekit 45 seconds unbreakeable is going to be very healthy for the game in general in my opinion.
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I am surprised to see people saying this is too good for survivors after the last midchapter update was insanely good for killers. This doesn't even come close to the buffs that killers received in that last midchapter update.
It will be fine, I am pretty positive. Some survivor payers weren't very happy with the 6.1.0 changes, and had to deal with it. This will be the same for some killer mains.
Honestly I am really hoping we see some more, other improvements for survivors in the next update as well, since this change won't even be going live with the next update. Survivors still need some more against camping and tunneling, so we can go back to normal queue times again.
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I agree, that would definitely help. His zoning after only using one dash can sometimes seem a bit too much. I thought maybe they would have to increase the cooldown of him canceling his dash after using one dash a bit, but just making it clearer when wesker cancels his power might be the only thing that is needed.
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@SpaghettiVase said:
I guess cuz they are tired of people complaining about starstruck nurse and instead of making a change specific to the killer/situation they decided to make a sweeping change to screw over several c and d tier killers.
Nope, slugging is just not very healthy gameplay for the game, so not being able to slug survivors for such a long time is definitely a very good and healthy change for the game.
C and D tier killers are just generally problematic because they are too weak, but the solution to that surely isn't unhealthy gameplay such as slugging. They just need to be buffed properly in different ways.
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Yes BHVR, just kill off your game.
Killer queue times are already longer than survivor queue times, this would just sky rocket killer queue times to 30+ minutes.
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It does in a way that, as far as I can tell, all survivors will be treated as sacrificed when the last survivor goes down, and they would also not get to use perks like Unbreakeable anymore, although such situations would be quite the rarity.
But still, this change is definitely good. It would otherwise simply make slugging more reliable as far as I can tell. Not to mention that a basekit unbreakeable that takes 45 seconds will just generally be very healthy for the game.
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I am sure the devs will see in the ptb that Unbreakeable will be way too strong. The ability to pick yourself up after 45 seconds at basekit is great however, but Unbreakeable will definitely need to be toned down again. Maybe even just keeping it at 30% increased recovery speed will be more than enough, since it will have unlimited use now. No reason to buff it to such a ridiculous level.
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I don't mind sabo being buffed a bit. It's a strategy that is very rarely ever useful. Not to mention that after dropping a survivor, it will still take them 45 seconds to pick themselves up.
This change might force the devs to take a closer look at hook spawns on some maps though. And Unbreakeable, if it does keep that 100% increased recovery speed, will surely become a big problem.
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202430#Comment_3202430
It literally will not only affect slugging multiple survivors. When a survivor goes down under a pallet, when a survivor goes down in the open while a flashlight user is around, when a survivor goes down in a high place not near hooks with boil over. All of those are situations where you get shafted if you pick someone up right away, and that's not even mentioning the killers who rely on slugging like Plague, Myers, Twins and Oni.
Hard disagree. It shouldn't take you 45 seconds to find the nearby survivor that is trying to go for pallet for flashlight save.
And if the survivor went down in the middle of nowhere, you can just smack them down again as soon as they pick themselves up, unless they are running Soul Guard. The instance with Boil Over could maybe become a problem, but I doubt it. It's such a rarity, and Boil Over in general just isn't a good perk anyways.
I am positive this change will be healthy for the game.
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@CosmicScarab said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202419#Comment_3202419
No Mither is a terrible perk despite having one of the strongest upsides because you lose a health state permanently. You don't lose a health state with this base kit unbreakable. That's the difference.
Yeah exactly. But the person I was replying to is that such a mechanic needs to be counterbalance by survivors being broken the entire match, which isn't true. Because No Mither is an incredibly bad perk.
Not to mention that it will take 45 seconds instead of 30 seconds to pick yourself up. It won't be op in any way, I am pretty positive. The new Unbreakeable perk is the only thing that will be problematic.
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I definitely do not see how this will buff killers though. Being able to pick yourself up after 45 seconds is a good thing for survivors. It just won't have much of an impact on the game's balance overall, because killers very rarely slug survivors for more than 45 seconds.
I guess if the recovery bar builds up slower now, other survivors picking up a downed survivor will be a bit weaker now, because it takes longer for survivors to get to that 95% recovery. But it's still a buff in my opinion because now survivors won't need another survivor to be picked up.
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@SunsetSherbet said:
I sure love wasting my entire EW3 (which is limited in numbers I can use it, due to archaic design) because now I can't slug the survivors to get the most use of my power as a bottom 5 killer. Now, I have to down one and immediately hook him, thus wasting a large chunk of the ONLY THING that makes that killer a threat without his add ons. And it's even worse because he can't even get to EW3 more than a few times a match.
This entire thing is to punish the handful of people that slug to grief. And at the same time it guts tons of legitimate strategies and also scenarios where the survivor basically just gets a free restart now. I'll even be the devil's advocate and say basekit unbreakable is okay, but not when you literally are giving an ultra-buffed version of the perk as basekit. Not even a weaker one. Just a massive buffed version. Up it to at LEAST a minute.
Also how is charlotte supposed to pick up anyone now? If a survivor has UB as well, then the Twins player might as well DC. They won't even be cable to switch back to Charlotte and make it to the downed survivor before they pick themselves up.
The issue I keep seeing is the number itself rather than basekit unbreakable. 45 seconds is way way too short and I don't get what they were thinking. 22 seconds with UB pretty much destroys several killers, several of which are bottom tier.
Any killer that relies on slugging like that needs changes themselves anyways.
Myers is weak, he needs buffs, but optimally, he would get buffs that encourage more fun gameplay. Having him be strong because of something like slugging is not ideal.
The changes we are getting are actually very good in my opinion. Not having these slug fests be possible anymore is a good thing. I wish they'd do more about tunneling and camping, but who knows, maybe we will see some more in the coming update as well. But nevertheless, this is a good and healthy change in general, despite certain killers maybe suffering too much from this.
But again, that is more a problem specific to such killers. Myers, and also Sadako for example, will surely suffer, but they just need some significant changes in general. Myers in particular is long due to get some buffs.
The only problem I see is Unbreakeable now being way too op. Being able to always pick yourself up, within 23 seconds, will be broken. The buff to 100% recovery speed will be insane, and way too strong in my eyes.
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Being able to pick yourself up after 45 seconds at basekit is a great change in my opinion. But I agree that Unbreakeable reducing it to 23 seconds is going to be too much. Especially because that will always be the case right? It's not just a one time thing, or? That would be way too much of a buff to Unbreakeable. Maybe 50% would be reasonable, but 100% is clearly too much.