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ad19970
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3280514#Comment_3280514
Yeah,its a skill issue from the killer from not being in a chase,downing survivors,protect gens at the same time,my bad.
And survivors are very skilled for holding m1 on a gen all game and hiding in bushes,its the killer fault for not being able to do everything at once.
/s
No, their argument is that people here are full of crap. Some people are not as good as they think they are, simple as that.
Unless survivors stacked strong toolboxes and gen speed up perks, you shouldn't be losing 3 gens if your chases are actually lasting only 30 seconds. Killers can indeed apply a good balance between chases and proper map pressure to slow gens down. It's not a myth. Especially not with all the slowdown perks currently existing.
There is no doubt that gens can still be repaired too fast with the right survivor builds, just like gens can be stalled too much with the right killer builds, but in general, it's not that bad anymore.
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Lmao at all the people being salty at Coconut because he has a different opinion on the Knight than them. That's just hilarious.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273550#Comment_3273550
I agree. If they rework the unfair maps and reduce the number of god pallets, then Nurse should be reworked too. But first fix bad map design.
I think Nurse should be looked at first, arguably. She should at least be nerfed in the same patch in which we get our first good balance changes to problematic maps.
But then again, BHVR's map designers just created this new mess of a map, so it doesn't seem like they have learned a thing about map balance in these last years, so I am not very hopeful in general.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356281/ghostface-security-camera-addon
I think this should just be a new killer
Places camera's around the map and these camera's reveal survivors auras.
Would need more than just that cause he'd be weak af with no traversability, but maybe it'd be fun.
Considering Wesker's lore and all, I was hoping for something like that or similar for him before he was revealed. It would be a more tactical killer, which would be neat.
Of course the Wesker we did get is amazing, so I can't complain about how he turned out, but I sure would love an idea like that for a future killer.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273487#Comment_3273487
At this point a nerf to eruption would screw over the M1 killers only shot at semi adequate defense on a consistent basis (If the gen spawn rng even gives you something defensible in the first place). When you're not in the baby bracket anymore, you start to find that gens are completed faster than greased lightning. In response to uncapped completion speed, quad slow builds and a 3-gen strat becomes the norm if you actually expect to maybe stop the progress as the real in-game manual describes. 'Hyperfocus/Stakeout' with a stacked toolbox could already overcome a 3-gen and now 'Potential Energy' helps to overcome 3-gens even more. Nerfing Eruption might feel fine on top killers like Nurse, Blight and Spirit, but would be disastrous for the rest of the killer roster. Don't forget that this system, for some reason, is a one-size-fits-all format.
This game can not be balanced around the low tier killers. They are a seperate problem, and need individual buffs. But it's no reason for an overpowered perk like Eruption to exist.
There are certainly more strong killers on which this perk is just too good. And even outside the "baby bracket", as a killer you now still have a chance at winning, without stacking 4 slowdown perks, and without Eruption. The 6.1.0 update did help with that no doubt. There are enough streamers for example that show that you can still win a lot of your matches even at very high mmr.
Of course there are other issues as well, like survivors being able to stack gen or healing speed increase effects, don't get me wrong, and it's particularly frustrating to see such an unbalanced map like Shattered Hope release at the end of 2022, but those as well are seperate problems, and no excuse for a perk like Eruption to exist, especially since Eruption hurts solo survivors more.
But arguably, in the same patch we see nerfs to Eruption and slowdown perk synergies, we also see nerfs to healing and gen speed increases as well. But that's maybe just wishful thinking.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278365#Comment_3278365
I don't think Shadowborn made all that much of a difference when I was playing with it, although it did feel more pleasant.
I definitely do think it does give you an advantage. Not a huge one, which is arguably a good reason for it not to be a perk actually, but it would be a small buff, and I think a small stealth buff for survivors as a counter buff would be good as well. But a greater field of view at base would definitely be nice.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273546#Comment_3273546
This doesn't solve the problem, because he also heavily telegraphs that he is using his power, so during that 1.5 seconds, the survivor just holds w in the opposite direction to the next loop. The problem is they need to do one of 2 things.
1.
The guards need to actually be a threat and able to catch a survivor on their own, even the assassin, the survivor just outruns them for the duration because the assassin only move at 110% movement speed and chase for 12 seconds. The others are even slower at 102.5% People never think what that actually means when looking at movement, they just thing "oh a 110 killer like huntress"
What this means is, if for the 12 seconds, the survivor just holds "w", the assassin will gain 0.4 meters of distance on the survivor per second, which over the course of 12 seconds, is 4.8 meters of distance. A killer lunge range ins 6 meters. This is ridiculous. The guards will never catch the survivor. This means that all you have to do is hold w to run away even from the one that is supposedly the good one at chasing.
This is fundamentally the problem, because the only good way to use his power, is to go to a loop and "#########" out the guard, and hope the survivor doesn't have a connected tile to run to. They need to encourage the gameplay that actually makes the guards a threat so that survivors don't hold w, while discouraging the quick use at a loop.
OR
2.
Do away with the orb thing entirely and make them work on command. You tap your ability button at a thing to summon a guard to do a thing. You can basically do this:
- If you are highlighting a survivor, the guard chases that survivor.
- If you are highlighting a gen/wall/pallet, the guard breaks that thing (make the gen kicking at least apply the 2.5%, maybe consider perks too if its the carnifex)
- If you hold the button, it creates a circle zone, when you let go, the guard patrols that circle zone, and works like they do now.
- If you tap the button, the guard stands there, and works like they do now.
This would allow the knight to do multiple things at once, the power can remain "weak" by itself and be used either as anti loop to strengthen it. Or it can be used as map control, by sending a guard somewhere else to delay the survivors while you do something else.
That second suggestion doesn't sound good to me, because I fail to see how that would take any skill. And killers should take some skill to play effectively.
The idea is that, because survivors can't see the green orb, you have a chance at counterplaying them holding w. That's the gameplay that should happen. You activate your power, the survivor sees that, runs away, and now you have to try and predict where they'll run to, and catch them off guard with a well placed guard, meanwhile the survivor tries to predict where you'll place your guard.
However, I certainly wouldn't mind a small speed increase for the guards. The Assasin could have their movement speed increased to 110%, and the Carnifex and Jailer increased to 105% or so. Maybe also increase their chase duration by 2 seconds or so. So if you do get your guard to detect a survivor, you actually have a very fair chance at getting a hit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3276717#Comment_3276717
You don't understand!! ThAt wOulD be aN aDvanTage!!!
It is indeed an advantage. I have started playing with Shadowborn just recently, and it clearly helps.
I do think it would be very nice to have a field of view slider, and then just rework Shadowborn. But that would no doubt be a buff to killers, so survivors would need some counterbuff as well. I would suggest a slight crouching movement speed increase, since a higher field of view for the killer makes stealth for the survivor a little more difficult.
But then again, survivors are still waiting on that nerf to camping which is insanely long overdue.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274872#Comment_3274872
and yet you have a downed survivor between all of them, pallets op.
What does that prove? Lmao what?
It doesn't change the fact that maps like Eyrie of Crows just have tons of pallets, and almost all of them are safe ones. Someone being able to get a down on a map like that with Trickster is no counter argument?
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I don't think one terrible aspect of game should be fixed by having another terrible aspect in the game, to counterbalance the first terrible aspect.
Maps like these are no reason for a killer like Nurse to exist if you ask me. There are still more than enough other maps where she is just broken. And she is surely broken on this map as well. These horrible maps should just be fixed, though I have low hopes of that, seein as we are conitnuing to get more of these crappy maps. It's honestly just sad that the new maps seem to just be getting worse and worse.
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@Rudjohns said:
Just put an Eruption icon in the bottom left corner of the screen as soon as the killer kicks a single gen, like how Unnerving Presence is shown. Now survivors would have to keep that in mind, any generator will explode at any second.
But how would this help survivors? They still don't know when to let go of a gen to not get hit by the ridiculous 25 seconds incapacitated effect duration.
That's the actual problem with Eruption. The incapacitated effect needs to be nerfed hard. It would be fine if they also buffed the regression a bit in that case.
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In my opinion the Knight needs 2 key changes:
- After he activates his power, he can not deactivate it for 1,5 seconds or so. This would weaken his loop trapping playstyle a lot, because survivors would have a lot of time to just run away.
- Survivors can no longer see the green orb while the Knight is creating a patrol path. This is the biggest issue with Knight right now in my opinion. The fact that survivors can see where you are creating your path makes it way too easy for them to just run away from that path.
He might need a few additional buffs as well, hard to say. But in my opinion these are the two main changes he needs.
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@Blueberry said:
Unless the survivors are bad, just make a ton of mistakes or you're playing a top tier killer they are necessary though in most circumstances. Unless you plan to hard tunnel anyway.
"I get that they are necessary on some maps, too many, if you go against a really good survivor team. But that's a problem of map design in my opinion, not gen times. Right now, stacking 4 strong gen slowdown perks is just too much."
We can say this until the cows come home and have been for literally years but the fact of the matter is even though the main issue is map design they aren't doing anything about it, so here we are, left doing the next best thing.
Stacking 4 slow down perks is not too much unless you're on one of the few top tier killers. I'd even go as far as to say on most of the killer roster with 4 slow down perks the game is still very survivor sided.
I can't fully agree. Though I am not sure which killers you consider top tier. If it's S, and at the very least also A tier killers, then maybe. The game does also have a fair amount of balanced maps, at least in general. Of course even with these maps, RNG can screw you over as killer, but it can also screw over survivors sometimes as well, with too many deadzones.
But there are just too many maps that are still survivor sided, for sure. Having stacked slowdown perks being op isn't the ideal solution to this problem though. Of course, one can argue it's a necessary evil with how bad some maps still are. But on the other hand, they just make matches on balanced maps a little problematic as well.
But yeah, if there is one thing I definitely do not agree with, it's that the game is survivor sided for most killers even with 4 slowdown perks. Definitely not in my opinion. If you are able to apply good map pressure, and are just good with the killer, even against good survivor teams, you definitely have a chance to win. Except on maps like Eyrie of Crows.
And I do believe that's even the case for top mmr. But a game like DBD can't be solely balanced around top mmr anyways. And the lower you go, the worse it gets. I do hope we will soon see proper information buffs to solo survivors, so at least that balance gap gets shortened.
Also, tunneling is sadly something one has to always also consider when talking about the game's balance. Killers can't just be buffed and then everyone hopes killers just don't tunnel anymore. Tunneling and camping need to be nerfed further as well, no doubt.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3273310#Comment_3273310
Tbh, with the way I play him, I find it really exhausting... After each match I just want to smoke a cigarette to collect my "braincells" together. xD
Yes, they do see it, but literally can place it ahead of them to create a scenario of 2 ways only: Keep holding farward and go through the guard, and try to avoid the radius but the Knight might already going right at you (pushing you to the radius). I've had a lot of these situations through the matches already.
Yes he's not insanely strong, you have to have a gen regression perks (probably meta ones), and addons on radius and haunt time.
I don't think I could play against survivors that I'm having with something different tho. So yeah...
That's a fair point. That can definitely work. But I would argue whether the Knight gets a hit against a survivor or the survivor gets to another tile is in that case just dictated by the map. But to be fair, that's the case with the Knight in a lot of cases. If you just trap a loop, map will also, at least to an extent, dictate whether you'll get a hit against the survivor who you are chasing, or if the survivor can reach another tile.
Of course the positioning of the Knight also plays a role here.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272572#Comment_3272572
No, nothing previously
Yeah then it's the new update, that somehow screwed up map generation.
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@ByeByeQ said:
New survivor-sided map with too many pallets and hard to track scratch marks...
Seriously, why shouldn't killers camp there?
This is a fair point. I 100% want camping and tunneling nerfed, further, and I still want that, but at the same time, maps like the new map really do not help at all, and I can understand when killers camp and tunnel on maps like this new one. It's honestly ridiculous how the devs have not yet nerfed camping in any way, despite that tactic being buffed after the 6.1.0 update, yet we get maps like the new map that hugely discourage killers to not camp and tunnel, and play normally.
Like, I just can't quite understand why the devs can't understand that we need killers to be encouraged to not camp and tunnel, and be discouraged to camp and tunnel. I was hopeful after the basekit BT got buffed, but that hope is disappearing again.
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It's honestly baffling at this point how the map designers are still able to create such terrible maps, despite all the feedback they have been getting.
I always think that a few safe pallets are fine. A few safe or just strong pallet loops, and maybe one or two god pallets are fine. As long as a map has enough mindgameable pallets as well. But this new map just has so, so many pallets, and so many of them are strong or safe pallet loops, and there are even mulltiple god pallets as well. It's just so bad.
I still hope that the insane amount of pallets that spawn is just a bug, but even if it is, that doesn't change the fact that so many potential pallet spawns are again just strong or completely safe pallet loops. It's disappointing to say the least, and one really has to question the competence of the current map designers. Or whoever is to be faulted for the newer maps being so strong for survivors.
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@Remedicist said:
I think one of the reasons this game is so hard to balance is the fact that there is no limit to how fast or slow an action can be. For example, the healing speeds are insane with a medkit and CoH.
This is very true. I think this game could really benefit from caps to action speed buffs and debuffs. That and/or some new logic on how values like action speed buffs/debuffs or regression effects stack. So that they don't stack with their full values anymore. For example Overcharge and Call of Brine only stacking up to 250% regression instead of 300%.
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@Blueberry said:
Instead of asking if 4 slow down perks is too much, we should be asking why they run them.
The answer is an unbalanced game.
With how overtuned gen speed is you essentially need multiple gen slow down perks to make the game last as long as it should be lasting at base without any perks.
Is 4 gen slow down perks too much on a few of the top tier killers? Sure, I could see that. Is it too much on the other 90% of the killer roster? Absolutely not.
Also DBD is all about time efficiency. IE you bring the perks that save you the most time. Currently that happens to be mostly gen slow down because most of the information or chase perks that exist quite frankly aren't good enough to save you as much time in chase or search as you would save just throwing another slow down on. Meaning we should be buffing most the chase/information perks to be on par.
And even better yet slow the games down enough to make them less necessary. On most killers you feel forced into slow down perks rather than getting to have fun and choose a unique build that fits your play style.
The reason most people use 4 slowdown perks is because it makes their games easier. Not because they are absolutely necessary.
I get that they are necessary on some maps, too many, if you go against a really good survivor team. But that's a problem of map design in my opinion, not gen times. Right now, stacking 4 strong gen slowdown perks is just too much.
@Aven_Fallen said:
Yeah, 4 Slowdowns is too much. Sadly every non-skilled Killerplayer can get 4Ks this way by just prolonging the game so much that no Ressources are left, which means that they dont have to deal with anything at some point.
You also dont even need 4 Slowdowns, you probably dont even need 1 if you are somewhat good at the game and be fine with not 4King every match (but still most of them).
Sadly, stacking Slowdown is the easiest way to play the game, so we will see it a lot.
A bit of an exaggeration. Non skilled killer players certainly won't win just because of slowdown perks if the survivors they are going against are good. Slowdown perks are definitely too much when stacked together at the moment, but it's also not that crazy. And generally you do want at least 1 slowdown perk if you are going against an actual good survivor team, no matter how good you are at killer.
Another problem is that on some maps, multiple slowdown perks can become kind of necessary. There are still a fair amount of maps that are beyond unbalanced, and the new map is just a new addition to that list.
I think somewhere between your post and Blueberries post lies the truth. But I do find these extreme, opposing opinions of each side amusing.
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Most slowdown perks are fine on their own. But I really do hope BHVR finds ways to nerf synergies between at least some of the slowdown perks. Call of Brine is perfectly balanced in my opinion, but when coupled with Overcharge and Eruption, it's too much for example.
There needs to be some diminishing returns with stacking slowdown effects, like regression. Overcharge and Call of Brine for example shouldn't stack to up to 300% regression.
Eruption is an exception here though. That perk just straight up needs to be nerfed individually.
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In my experience, if you actually create paths with his power, the survivor has quite a bit of time to just run away from the loop. Of course you can cut survivors off, no doubt, but good survivors will often see where you are creating your path, and simply run off into the other direction.
You can't really create paths effectively if you are anywhere towards the center of the map. The only time this strategy can work is at the edges of maps, and even then, survivors can sometimes still run too far away.
In my experience, simply tapping your power at loops is often the most effective way to play him. And in my opinion he isn't actually weak or anything. Not particularly strong, but also not weak. But playing him by simply trapping loops I find to be pretty damn boring.
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No from what I can tell this is an issue with the new update. Or have you experienced this before the update as well?
Because just today I have seen multiple fat shaming spots on multiple maps. Hadn't seen any before the update.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272495#Comment_3272495
It's an interesting theory but there are spots in this video where pallets could spawn but don't. For the time being though, I don't see any other explanation.
I'm moving on to other maps to try to see if it affects them as well or if it's just Shattered Square.
This is especially worrying. The fact that pallets don't actually spawn everywhere they could spawn might suggest the logic isn't actually broken. But maybe there is just a certain aspect of pallet logic broken on the map.
Needless to say, if this map is working as intended, that would probably be a new low for the map design team, and I didn't think that was even possible after Eyrie of Crow. Someone would have to seriously explain to me how a set team of developers could manage to stay so bad and oblivious at how to design maps properly for so long. Like this is just so, so bad.
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Yep had this too. It just makes an already strong structure for survivors even stronger. Which is not good.
Map generation seems to be messed at the moment anyways. I have seen multiple instances of objects spawning too close to loops again. It looks like you can go between the loop and the object, but you can't. It just makes loops bigger and therefore safer as well, though of course only if the survivor is aware of that and doesn't get stuck.
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I haven't had any problems with blinding a killer after a pallet stun, or while they are breaking a pallet personally. Not sure what delay you are talking about, because there should only be a delay after you turn off you flashlight.
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If this is intended, then there really is no hope for BHVR's map design team anymore. They get so much feedback, and just seem to ignore almost all of it.
Hell, even if this is a bug, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of the potential pallet spawns on this new map are again, very safe pallets, at least from what I could see. So even after fixing so many pallets spawning, this map will probably still be a pain for killers. A few safe pallets are fine, no doubt, but not when the majority of pallets that spawn are safe.
It's honestly just ridiculous at this point. New maps seem to often discourage killers from playing normally, and properly, you know, not camping and tunneling, yet we aren't seeing any further discouragements for camping or tunneling, which are still a problem.
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The reward of this perk is good, but the risk and extra time you need for this perk is just astronomically too high. In so many cases, this perk just ends up being a killer perk.
They need to change it so that you only lose 1 or at the most 2 tokens after getting hit by the killer, otherwise this perk will just be trash.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272459#Comment_3272459
Even that doesn't work though, because by the time you catch up to them, if they just hold W, the guard goes away because they outrun it.
YEah but in many cases you just get an M1 against the survivor. Because they are forced to run away from the loop
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If you just use your power and immediately deactivate it at a loop, survivors have very little time to get to another loop. So in the end the map just dictates whether you'll get a hit or not if the survivor runs away from the loop.
But this killer is just the pinnacle of hold w. He just places his guards at loops and then chases the survivor, and in many cases, you will get a hit by doing so. It does also depend on the loop however.
It's a real shame that's the effective way of playing him, and not the intended way of creating longer paths for his guards to patrol, by predicting where the survivor is running to instead.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3272180#Comment_3272180
It's supposed to be that way. You were basically doing the gen on your own. Because for them, instead of progressing the gen, they're storing that progress which they can deposit later onto another gen. Very useful in breaking 3-gens.
It would be if the survivor didn't lose all the tokens as soon as they got hit. That's the big problem of this perk.
The likeliness of just wasting valuable time because you lose all your tokens before you get to use them is way, way too high for this perk to even be somewhat useful.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
It’s great for solo q but it’s yet another perks that is useless if you’re in a SWF on comms. It’s pretty amazing that some people continue to argue that SWF on comms is not a huge game-breaking advantage when a growing number of survivor perks are just worse versions of information benefits that you get for free by communicating on comms.
Aura reading trumps communication pretty much always. It still gives you much more accurate information.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
My biggest issue is that his power is really boring. All you do is just place guards on loops or next to hooked Survivors. If you try to use your power anywhere else (besides maybe kicking a gen or something), Survivors will just hold W to different direction because they can tell what you are doing. So you place guards on loops and people hold W anyway to the next loop / window, etc. It's so boring and it also takes very little skill at all. Survivors see everything you do. AI sometimes still doesn't work 100% correctly. You can't use them in some creative way because it backfires you. It's rly shame, because the concept of the power (idea) and the overall desing (look) of the Killer is great! Sad.
Exactly my problem with him. He is not necessarily weak, but the way to play him effectively is just beyond boring. And I'd argue it's boring for both sides.
He needs two key changes in my opinion:
- After he activates his power, he should not be able to deactivate again for like 1,5 seconds. This way, his playstyle of simply trapping loops is not that effective, because survivors have a lot of time to run away.
- Survivors can no longer see his green orb when he creates a path. This would actually give him a fairer chance at getting his guards to detect survivors if he predicts their movement right, because now they can't just see his green orb and run away from it.
Perhaps he would need a few other buffs as well, who knows. I just wish his intended playstyle of creating actual paths was much more effective, and his trapping loop playstyle less effective.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270900#Comment_3270900
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271197#Comment_3271197
"Free hit," eh? I'll just let this do the talking.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx6Auh8pB1Altd13bUeLU7-PePd-Tyar2
What on earth is this clip supposed to show me? He gets a hit at the tile and it's not even the tile that people here are talking about.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3270331#Comment_3270331
Nah, when you are fully infected you can also insta-down the Survivor with your power.
And well, the hindered makes him really good at tunneling, because they will eventually get hindered in a Chase and at this point, they cannot loop anymore, because they are too slow. And you cannot really use the Spray Mid-Chase, so its existence does not really change the fact that the Hindered-Status Effect makes him really good at tunneling.
@Topic:
Removing the Hindered - yes.
About breaking Pallets or Walls... Sure, why not.
There are better ways to nerf his tunneling potential than removing the hIndered status effect on full infection.
The Hindered Status effect is the main downside of his full infection, the one shot is arguably not nearly as impactful, because survivors can sometimes just run around small objects like trees, forcing an M1 attack, and they'll sometimes just stay injured, which can sometimes be the right play anyways. So I think the hindered status effect 100% needs to stay, in order for the infection to continue being the threat it needs to be.
Instead, People have suggested that after being unhooked, if you are infected, you shouldn't gain any infection, neither passively nor through a hit, until you perform a conspicuous action. That coupled with the idea of having a survivors infection reset to 0 when hooked should do the trick. Now there is no reason additional reason for wesker to tunnel.
And of course, the addon that increases the passive gain rate by 70% should be decreased to 30%, which is what the addon description actually says.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355260/can-we-nerf-the-gen-perks
This can only be paired with nerfing killer's version of the same thing - CoB, OC, (mentioned) Eruption, Deadlock, DMS, Jolt, etc. They are already way too oppressive as it is and many killers are able to hold their 3gen indefinitely (especially against players that can't coordinate perfectly) or at least prolong them long enough to exhaust all the resources on the map making it very easy game. I have seen killers win games they should have 0 agency to win - if you can't catch someone for more then a minute in chase multiple times, get multiple saves against you and are overall bad in chases - and yet you win the game because you brought 4 regression perks - then there's a question if being hard-carried by perks is healthy for the game.
I think perks like CoB or Overcharge are fine on their own, I'd rather just see their synergy nerfed a bit. Like some diminishing returns when they stack together. And of course DMS should not work with Pain Resonance anymore.
With most slowdown perks, I really hope BHVR just nerfs their synergies, because it's the stacking of slowdown perks that is the problem. If BHVR just nerfs slowdown perks individually, then I fear people will still stack slowdown perks, because now they feel like it's even more necessary, for the simple reason that a slowdown perk on it's own is too weak.
Eruption is the exception here, that perk needs to be nerfed no doubt.
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I think once people will get used to these new pallets, they won't have a problem with them. It's just getting used to knowing what to look out for. Maybe. That would be my guess.
They do blend into the environments a bit better than the older pallets though, it seems, at least on the new map. Not sure how it's going to be on other maps though. On maps like Mac Millan or Autoheaven Wreckers I would imagine them to still be easily spottable.
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Killers have a lot of counterplay against flashlight saves, and it's one survivor not doing gens. Survivors having a somewhat higher chance now of getting flashlight saves if they get in position quickly enough I don't think will be a problem. It will just make this type of gameplay and strategy a bit more accessible for not as experienced survivor players.
Because before, playing for flashlight saves only ever payed off for very good survivor players, while every other survivor player couldn't really make any good use of that tactic, because of how hard it was to pull off. This will just allow that tactic to be more viable among all survivor players.
If it does end up being a problem for many killer players, the devs can adjust the window.
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@Gandor said:
I recently got fed up with the state of the game for survivors. Every killer just camps and tunnels and it's not fun at all. The game is becoming really stressful. So to enjoy myself I swapped to killer. For last about half a week I played about 100 matches. Out of which I would say 80% were 3-4K (that one missing is usually hatch as I don't slug for 4K or if survivors tried really hard, I will leave the last one escape) and it's not even rare to win on 5-3 generators left.
The point is - after winning so many games in a row I am already high MMR. The games are not very difficult if you take good killer (say twins or wesker, but sure enough I would struggle on pig or ghostface) with a few slowdowns and 1 info or chase perk. Even if I am positive, that I am better survivor then killer, my escape rate on survivor would be 40% in SWF during better days. When I play killer (it was exclusive for last 2 days), it's rare that I really need to sweat really hard. I take good perks, but brown or yellow addons and I make it my rule to not camp or tunnel (tunnel means going after freshly unhooked. Once he heals or starts doing gens, I don't care any more. As for camp - if I see someone coming to hook, I will not turn around. If I hook someone into my 3gen, then tough luck for survivors because I will patrol my gens).
What I am trying to say - stop buffing killers please. Right now every killer that has 300+ hours is already high MMR. It's starting to become boring at this point. I purposefully need to take me to garden of joy or some other strong map so that I can still have a challenge. On the other hand you need to play super effective/sweaty on survivor to at least have some chance to see gates powered.
How exactly do you know that you are in high MMR?
There is no doubt that camping and tunneling need to be nerfed. And that at the very least eruption also needs to be nerfed. But I find it hard to agree that DBD is killer sided at the moment. If you do factor camping and tunneling in, then maybe it is slightly killer sided. On average. But in general, both roles generally have a fair chance of winning. Killer can still be very challening if you go against an actual good survivor team. Maps in particular are still a sore spot for killers.
Solo survivors are the ones that are in need of help the most at the moment. But arguably one of the biggest problems in DBD at the moment isn't even the game's balance, but the matchmaking. Besides camping and tunneling of course, but those are problems beyond balance, it's less about those tactics being too strong (though they are), and more about just being so unfun and cheap to go against.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Go ahead. Then all that's left for killer is going for random chases, no strategy, and hoping the survivors play bad and let them win.
A nerf to camping won't completely eradicate all types of strategy a killer has. Like what even is that logic? This game isn't just hard camping or only going for chases. Killer can go for chases, defend gens, and try and spread damage as effectively as possible.
Most people don't even want camping to be impossible, just not as effective as it is right now. With the right nerfs, proxy camping and a defensive playstyle could still be viable enough, but survivors would have a better and fairer fighting chance against killers that do nothing but camp most of the game.
That's at least the next step this game would need. Obviously camping can't be completely nerfed into the ground with how bad some of the map balance in the game still is, but it surely needs a nerf. Camping also is the strategy that takes the least amount of skill, by a far shot.
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@Terion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271154#Comment_3271154
my main question is why are not all 3 proplems treated equally? why does erruption get shake up the masses but somehow COH and DH is just an accepted thing at that point. Its not like there is 70% survivor only players and 30% killer only. I feel like the majority plays both sides and yet its the killer perk that gets the most attention.
Probably for the same reason why killer queue times on average are noticeably longer than survivor queue times.
The survivor role is lacking more than the killer role at the moment. Considering camping and tunneling are still such effective strategies. But this one perk also simply sticks out like a sore thumb.
The other reason it gets especially a lot of focus is the group of people that are affected the most by the perk, which is solo queue, and solo queue is already in a rough spot, especially due to matchmaking. Having the strongest perk in the game affect them more than swf survivors is just insanely bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Remember: when people say "balance maps around high level play", they often mean "balance maps as if good survivors are playing against relatively bad killers".
Those tiles are free hits in high level play. High level play meaning good killer vs good survivor. There's no downside to playing the short side of that pallet as a killer because there's nothing the survivor can do with the other side of that tile from that angle. Normally the short side of a pallet comes with risks of extending the loop. That's not the case with this one.
No most of the time they do actually mean balancing the game around good killer and survivor players. At least a lot of people. Obviously some think they are better than they actually are, but still.
This tile here is just the complete opposite of the tiles that are super safe for survivors, and those tiles exist as well. In fact, there are still clearly more safe tiles on average than unsafe ones.
A few safe pallet loops are also fine, no doubt. But too many maps have too many strong pallets. On the other hand, I do think tiles like this one shouldn't even exist at all, seeing as these are free hits even for M1 killers.
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@Tsulan said:
Wasn´t camping addressed with basekit BT?
Not really. It certainly helps against tunneling a bit, and can help against camping a little as well. But the hook phase timers staying the same after gens got increased buffed camping indirectly as well, so it's arguably an even bigger problem than before the 6.1.0 update.
Also, hook grabs are still a thing, BT won't help against that. And certain killers have still insane camping capabilities as well, especially Bubba.
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@th3syst3m said:
That's a little much? I've seen way worse, I wouldn't give that a second thought. But just to correct you it's not an ego issue, it's a fair game issue. Also Nurse players by far have the biggest egos. I don't know why but they think playing a broken killer and winning most their matches make them amazing.
Yeah normal people don't go this crazy, even against an op killer like Nurse. You have to be some type of braindamaged or just have a huge ego to go this crazy over a match against Nurse.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I think it would be worth to test in a ptb hoe increasing hook times would work.
Even something like 10 seconds per hookstage would make a world of difference
This is a no brainer honestly. Gen times were increased, of course the hook phase duration needs to be increased as well. Camping was already complained about a lot before the 6.1.0 update, and then BHVR actually just buffed that strategy.
That in addition to removing hook grabs would already go a long way. Camping wouldn't be nerfed into the ground or anything, but it would at least be a nice start.
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@LuthirFontaine said:
Crazy idea I know but, what if gen speeds increase if killer is within x amount of distance of hook?
Has been suggested time and time again, but it needs a bunch of requirements. It shouldn't happen immediately, because the killer looking for another survivor close to where the hooked survivor is isn't immediately camping. If another survivor is within x amount of distance to the hooked survivor, it would also have to deactivate, or survivors could abuse the mechanic very easiy.
It would definitely work with enough additional conditions, but I think it would be a rather complex system for something that is basekit, and it wouldn't be very intuitive. I think much simpler and better first steps would be to inrcease the hook phase duration a bit, to fit better with the new gen times, and remove hook grabs. Those two changes would already go a long way.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3255038#Comment_3255038
That's not a fair exchange.
A fair exchange would be this :
When eruption goes off any generator affected cannot be stopped regressing for 45 seconds. Any perks affecting a single generator that are applied without any necessary cooldown will be applied when eruption goes off.
In other words : call of brine and Overcharge could be applied to the generator (potentially both) and when eruption goes off you can run somewhere else but that generator cannot be stopped regressing for 45 seconds.
Or Eruption could just always remove 25% generator progress instantly and then be blocked for 30 seconds and come back in a state of regression.
25% regression plus the gen is then blocked for 30 seconds? How would that not be brokenly op? Perks aren't supposed to win you the match on their own.
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@Rovend said:
That new perk that shows surv close to the gen being kicked, i am scared.
I fear it's going to be yet another balanced perk that gets nerfed because of one stupidly broken killer. I hope I am wrong, but I fear that will happen.
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A post like this was inevitable, but I disagree. Feel like most people disagree. Despite Wesker being strong, as far as I saw, he seemed to actually be one of the least complained about killers after he released. While he is strong, he allows for a lot of fair counterplay on the survivors side, which is why he is so fun to play as and go against.
He is also not very low skill. He certainly isn't as hard to get going with as some of the other killers, but he still takes a decent amount of skill, and his skill ceiling is arguably very high.
One of the reasons his kill rate is the highest is surely because he is still new, and there are enough survivors that haven't learned how to play against him that optimally yet.
I do agree that he'll probably need some nerf however. I could see them lowering his hitbox a bit. Obviously not back to 20 cm, and I fear even 25 cm would lead to cases of dashing through survivors again, but I could see them lowering his hitbox to 27 or 28 cm. Beyond that though, it would be stupid to nerf his chase potential, seeing as how many people of both sides seem to enjoy chases with him. Making him less fun to play as would be so bad, considering barely anyone seems to complain about his chase power.
The real issue I have with wesker is his tunneling potential. And from what I can see, more people seem to start agreeing with this. The fact that infected survivors keep up to half their infection progress after being hooked, means tunneling survivors as Wesker is relatively easy because they become critically infected much quicker, and then they run slower, at which point the survivor is in a lot of trouble.
I really do think they should increase the passive infection gain rate a bit, but then not have it be active while a survivor is being chased. Also, a hooked survivor should have their infection progress reset to 0. Maybe even give them a small window where they are immune to gaining infection after being unhooked.
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@almofan1001 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230237#Comment_3230237
Buff solo then buff killers so everyone can have a fair chance, solo can't be ignored.
And why is no one talking about buffing killer? Everyone is just saying buff SoloQ this and that but no one is mentioning what killer buffs are you going to give. It feels like an afterthought of "we'll see". Are you going to add another of these meaningless "mini SBTFL" as compensation?
Give me a list of proposed killer buff changes, then we can talk about SoloQ buffs.
And the "weakest role in the game" is an illusion. It is weakest, but only at certain times, and I can 100 % tell you that it happens not as common as the community tells you. The community exaggerates massively as if every game is 4 SoloQ monkeys running around and doing basic mistakes. There are games when that happens, but if this was every game occurrence, then no one would play this game without being in SWF.
Killers already received a bunch of buffs in the 6.1.0 update. This caused solo queue to become rougher than it was before, which is why more people talk about buffing solo queue than abut buffing killers.
Balance changes don't happen all at once. BHVR has to balance this game step by step. Killers already received a bunch of buffs, now it's the survivors turn. And then, after that, BHVR can see what the next step is. If they really wanted to help killers out more after that, and in a proper way, they would have to look at maps anyways, but it seems like they still haven't fully understood how to properly balance maps.
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Is this some desperate attempt to justify tunneling?
It's pretty simple. Its just insanely unfun to get camped or tunneled. It's just terrible gameplay. So people ask for nerfs to such tactics, because right now they are just way too effective. Its not fun nor really fair to play, and then also lose to such tactics.
So the devs can actually address these issues, or they can just not, and a lot of survivor players can continue playing the game much less, or not at all, clearly shown by current queue times. I for one think it would be good to keep improving the game for both sides.