Vetrathene
Vetrathene
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I just wish they would remove the end game chat. I don't understand why it was ever added in the first place. It serves literally no purpose. Except for everyone to get salty or the survivors to all pat each other on the back. Its very,very rare I see the killer and survivors chatting amicably after a game.
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@Kenidur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878762#Comment_878762
yeah, wonderful strategy. one I bet you are used to seeing people DC on too. This is why they need to start showing the survivors who is playing the killer. So they have the option to leave the match before it starts when they know it's going to be some knob on the other end.
People DC for any reason. Getting downed in general is a popular one. That is not a great argument for not focusing on a weak survivor.
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Why should survivors even get a possible escape if they get owned by the killer?
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It is a badly designed perk. Because it allows for Survivors to make bad plays without getting punished for it. At least its not as bad as it was when it originally came out and gave the effect to both survivors involved in the unhooked action. Dark days those.
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Yes please change how your hit detection works, I'm tired of aiming dead center for the survivor and then hitting a pallet, or window sill, or tree. Something has to be done.
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The buffs would be nice if they didn't take away the one thing that made Legion even somewhat threatening. Now they are a killer who dosen't really do anything. The only good thing is the change to BoP and Nemeisis coming out. But without those perks they are very, very weak. And still not great with them.
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Picking on the weak one is the best strategy for killer. Its the one you want to go for because then you can start breaking the chain. Its not mean, its strategy.
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SWF.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870828#Comment_870828
Don’t be toxic and tunnel. There’s your counter play :)
Tunneling isn;t toxic, it was a legitimate strategy to get a survivor out of the game and punish bad plays. But now with BT and DS survivors can do brainless plays and get away fine.
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@MysticAdvisor said:
Tell me this what happens when you get downed by a leather face late game and they basement camp you because you looped them for 5 gens?
You get saved then they chainsaw you and pick you up.
Now with ds I can escape the basement and the sweaty killer.
but... without ds what is to stop a killer from straight up tunneling you?
Nothing, which isn't an actual problem. But I'm not asking DS to be removed, I'm asking it to be turned into an actual anti-tunnel perk and deactivate after you hook another survivor.
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@Poochkips said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870850#Comment_870850
The reason why is the toxic version of us killers call DS a reward for failing. Constantly I see them saying "because you played poorly you got caught, and ds is a free tool to fix the messup, it rewards players for playing bad." (Thrn turn around and complain doing objective takes no skill, so by most peoples logic doing objective in anything in this game is not skilled, whether its looping or gens, or downing survivors etc.) honestly, DS is really only a bandaid. The counter to it is obviously not picking a survivor up. Just like survivors also call NoED a second chance perk or one that fixes messups. While our objective doesnt end until the survivors escape, the same thing is said for survivors. Use whatever it takes to win is the way I see it. And you win some and lose some. Lol
Slugging is not a counter, its just a delaying tactic. A counter is something that prevents an action from occurring or negates its deleterious effects. Slugging barely even mitigates it as they can just be picked up by another survivor or if they have unbreakable.
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@Kenidur said:
Pulled completely out of context, good job!
As a killer, a survivor you downed was just unhooked and charged at you. Do you;
A. Pick him right up
B. Go after his buddy who is right there?
As a survivor, there is a generator to your left and another to your right. The killer is camping the left. Do you;
A. Go to the left generator and do it in front of the killer
B. Go to the right generator safely?
I'll give you a hint, B is the correct answer in both cases.
The latter is using an example of game play that is unaffected by perks any one has. The former is forcing the killer to play differently because of perks. THere are very few, if any killer perks that force a change of gameplay from the survivor. There are at least 2 survivor perks that force the killer to play in a different way. Not saying killers shouldn't be adaptable and learn to play; but there is a difference from adapting and something giving little to no counter play.
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@Kenidur said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871144#Comment_871144
The killer wasn't punished, he earned points for everything in that, including additional survivor found, chase, an extra hit, and more. The other survivor was hooked for all of a second, SO WHAT? the killer doesn't get any more points for hanging for 1 second, or 1 minute, the killer makes out, he knows 2 people currently not working gens, and a third who is working their way back. Both shown survivors are injured and likely to heal if they're not chased, and because it just happened, the killer is immediately back in a chase, not looking for someone. The only "punishment" comes from the obvious DS, 5 second stun. With how it was played, he should have known that was going to happen; Survivors aren't going in for the rescue like that without some ace up their sleeve. . If he had left her on the ground, he could have chased the other knowing 3 survivors would be occupied, 1 in chase, 1 down, 1 going to help. So the only dumb play there was the killer picking up the survivor.
"The dumb play was picking up the survivor." You mean something the killer needs to do to get hooks to win the game? Thats literally like saying "The dumb play was the survivor doing a generator."
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870819#Comment_870819
it is pretty simple to slug and if they have unbreakable then ######### out of luck
So you're admitting with the right perks there is no counterplay?
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@arslaN said:
There is no immunity with DS. Any good killer will slug you instead of picking you up and people will have to stop doing gens to pick you up which is a big deal.
Stunning the killer for 5 seconds and deactivating your perk is also not a reward.
Thats the immunity. Plus they can just hop in a locker and get away scott free.
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The End game chat should have never been added to the game. I don't know what the Devs where thinking, but I rarely do. I find most of thier logic strange and unknowable.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870430#Comment_870430
I agree - people complain about the "survivor meta", but there literally hasn't been a good perk for survivors in a very long time that wasn't nerfed.
the meta perks at the moment are what, Balanced/Sprint/DH/Adrenaline/BT/Borrowed Which have all been in the game for years.
You forgot DS
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Do we know it stacks with itself?
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@Sleephartha said:
Still seeing no valid arguments. Just more anecdotal evidence about individual games. Again, not the point. Someone says killers own lower ranks, survivors own red ranks. And how exactly does that comport with this data that shows even higher kill rates in red ranks? Someone says my logic is flawed then has no follow up to counter my flawed logic. People say Peanits says don’t draw any conclusions. I‘m a data analyst. I’ll think for myself, thanks. I’ll admit there could be missing information and I’m open to having my mind changed. But in business data analytics you are presented with data and ask questions and draw conclusions. In this case these numbers fit perfectly with my experience in this game as a survivor. People say the potatos skew the kill rates. Really? In the red ranks too? But I thought survivors own the red ranks and beat up killers. Which is it? Are you saying you have lots of games in the red ranks vs easy potato squads but that the occasional killer swf squad owns you? So... you still win a lot but don’t like those times you get beat.... sorry but these stats bear out my experience that killers own this game. Facts are facts. You can’t run from them.
How about this? Its harder to rank up as killer. Whether you want to beleive that or not its true. Therfore, more survivors of varying skills will be able to make it to red rank, and can be carried by team mates (especialyl SWF). Killers have to get really good and have no one else to rely on. While this may come across as balance to you, it is not. Killer's have to work 12 times harder, not 4 times harder then survivors. Plus the fact of the matter is, the killer should be the power role, and the survivors should have to struggle. But its the other way around. Ergo, the game is not balanced, the stats are just showing that the lackluster survivors who make it easily to red ranks are being taken advantage of by killers who are actually good at the game. The only thing it shows as even close to definite (which it still isn't), is the difference in killer power/skill cap.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869583#Comment_869583
Hatch spawning with no gens is not healthy
See? It's easy to bring up one-sided arguments.
I agree with both of these points.
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@Sleephartha said:
A 50% kill rate would be balanced. Meaning half your games are 4ks, half are 0k. Or, 2ks per game. Instead not a single killer is at 50%. All are above 60. And the highest, most complained about killers are in the 75% range. Is this not crystal clear now why survivors complain about OP killers? And now imagine if we had detail that showed 4 solos vs 4 man swfs. I’d reckon it looks even worse for solos. Probably 80-85% or worse. This game is heavily skewed toward killers.
75%!! This is a full 25% higher than it should be. And people wonder why survivors like to derank... it’s because the game is more balanced when higher level survivors play lower level killers. Thanks for releasing these stats Behaviour. I’m vindicated.
50-75% is still 2 kills on average, but killers need 3 kills to pip most games. Also stats aren't everything, and tend to be padded. It also dosen't take into account having to play against SWF depip squads, of which killers have no defense.
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@Joevela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867635#Comment_867635
Whats the method?
Basically using him for surprise attacks and to mind game pallets with no terror radius or red stain, its more effective then trying to stalk and get insta downs.
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@Fultterone said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867960#Comment_867960
True. Maybe they should change if a survivor gets hooked ds gets taken away?
Yes. It feels like some people besides myself think that would be a great idea.
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@Fultterone said:
Isn't DS a anti-tunnel perk? I mean is 40-60 seconds to long for you to hook a survivor that got off the hook instead of searching for another survivor?
No, because I and others can go find another survivor, down them, hook them, find and down the other survivor, grab them, and they still have DS.
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@ahandfulofrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867583#Comment_867583
Because killer actually takes skill... :D
Now now, survivor takes SOME skill. Just not nearly as much as a killer. And barely any with SWF.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867507#Comment_867507
Yep. Even the Nurse complainers are getting in on the action...as apparently having “only” a 65.8% kill rate is evidence that the nerf went to far. Entitlement nonsense.
Its less about the kill rate and more the fact she isn't any measure of fun anymore.
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Its thanks to Tru3Tal3nt finding a method of play that makes Ghostface really good. At least that has something to do with it I am sure.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867613#Comment_867613
Odd considering nurse was a large portion of killers for a while
Impossible to really say, as the data we have only goes back three months. When I played survivor I don't honestly remember running into that many Nurse's. Trappers and Billys yes.
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
I knew the kill rates were a lot higher than 50%. My own Spirit gets about 4k in most of my games. It has become so frequent that I had to remind myself that 4k is not what the game is balanced around.
Although I sometimes feel salty that I don't get 4k. I guess that's why there are so many killer complaints on the forums despite killers overperforming across the board.
For me at least, the frustration is more to do with both SWF and easy means of running the killer around that are fun for the survivor but not so much for myself. Especially being around before they reduced the hit boxes of survivors. The only loops there where, where on infinites. And while those sucks, they weren't all over the map. Pallets where also more forgiving to killers and survivors died quicker on hooks. While it did have a lot of suckiness, there was also a lot of good for killers that I miss.
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@Auron471 said:
#BuffLegion
#ReworkLegion
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867592#Comment_867592
That they are..and it's very obvious in the way they respond to nurse feedback posts..the lack of even attempting to seem impartial is honestly disheartening
BHVR has been anything but impartial throughout the history of this game. While I feel they are getting better; it still comes with lots of strange logic and wanting the majority to be the ones to have fun over the cost of the minorities fun.
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@altruistic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867593#Comment_867593
You’re actually so full of it.
You are encouraged to stream your gameplay for all of us to enjoy.
At the end of the day, running the best perks as Survivor helps you against the constant stale meta on the other side. It isn’t abuse. It’s smart gameplay. Everyone in red ranks should be running at LEAST borrowed time.
I literally just said one of the perks you listed needed a buff. And if we got some changes to perks that need buffs, there wouldn't such a stale meta would there? Are you angry about what I want, or just angry at me?
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@altruistic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867586#Comment_867586
I guess I should run Slippery Meat, This Is Not Happening, Technician and No Mither every match!
Maybe not No Mither (That one needs some buffs) But you can do fine with the other 3. I certainly have.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867585#Comment_867585
Okay this is funny
NoEd punishes survivors for ignoring the Secondary OBJ and shouldn't like over 60% of the perk roster for survivors do that
It very well might. Wheras the only ones I can think of that change significantly how survivors play is Ruin, and maybe corrupt intervention (though Survivors can just wait it out and hide). So thats 60% against 2%?
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@altruistic said:
Killers use the best perks.. They need them!
Survivor uses the best perks available. They’re abusing them!!
Do you understand what a double standard is?
It would be, except in my experince (and yes I realize thats flawed but its all I have) Playing against and as a survivor, you don't need the best perks to pip and/or escape. For a killer do to the same they need to use the strongest perks available to them, unless they are a minor subset of killers that are actually strong.
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You abuse perks by forcing the killer to play a certain way that is detrimental to the efficiency of winning the game.
The problem with NOED is its the closest killers have to a get out of jail free card, a reward for not doing well at the game.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867547#Comment_867547
If you want to pretend that's what I'm doing, sure.
the OP showed concern that every killer may be nerfed due to the kill rate being so high, as we know, devs ONLY nerf killers if survivors complain, as shown by the multitude of killer main posts proving that this is what devs do, as no survivor is complaining about this, no killer will be nerfed.
/s
Would be interesting if the devs nerfed all the killers because all the killer complained about the stats, lmao.
Edit: Had to add a /s I didn't want anyone thinking i think devs actually think that way.
Well for one you are lumping all killers together, when either way its only some killers. Not all killers get on these forums. Same with Survivors. Its never all. I've made the same mistake but trying to fix that line of thinking for myself. And like you said, whatever the Devs do to nerfs, its more complicated then one factor. But what I want and what I beleive some people want is more transparency besides just 'over performing' when it comes to buffs and nerfs to things.
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@Peanits said:
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balanced based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
But what the OP is asking is for more transparency on WHY BHVR does what it does. I would like this as well.
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A lot of these windows where also made before survivor hit boxes where made smaller...for some reason. And so on corners now killers lose speed that survivors do not, allowing them to reach areas before killers can and getting away scott free.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867544#Comment_867544
Except no survivor is complaining about these stats that show they are on average, get stomped, lol.
But there is someone complaining about people complaining.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867519#Comment_867519
Nope, just find it embarrassing how often killers say survivors only complain, to find killers, only complaining when they're shown the stats that prove red rank isn't all fields of grass and daisies for survivors at rank one.
Everyone complains. Its the nature of humanity.And its a game with two obvious camps that oppose one another. Such things are like the tides. Inevitable.
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I'm looking forward to the Doc's buffs being minor while getting nerfs to 'compensate' for his increased power
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Legion's Mori.
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@Seanzu said:
I don't see why you find it concerning.
from my brief lurk on the forums the only people complaining about the stats is... well... killers, yet again.
No survivor has made a post like "Well we seriously need to look at kill rates because they're too high".
Literally no body, just the same killers who complain day in and day out that they aren't getting enough kills and that SWF is the devil etc, now they're all making meme posts like "Hurr I guess we better nerf da killers because they are all overperforming hehehe"
Yep, you got a problem with that?
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@Almo said:
What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
But what about for the solo killer experience against SWF?
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@RainbowPatooie said:
I'm glad you're giving Legion a reason to have that title.
I am too
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I honestly just want to know what leads to these decisions, as it was her "over performing" that was given as the main reason for her nerf. And just some explanation of what that entails, along with criteria for buffs/nerfs in general. Does it have to do with fun? Whose fun? What is the proper ratio of fun? Does it have to do with survivors/killers bitching? When does it get so much that you have to give in? Or is it some combination or possibly other factors I am not aware of?
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@Fibijean said:
There's a lot more to "overperforming" than just number of kills. In fact, in the same stream where they said that about Spirit, they discussed how kill rate is only one factor that goes into balance decisions, and even mentioned that Freddy was actually the killer with the highest kill rate.
Then exactly what does over performing mean then? I didn't see the stream, did they explain beyond it is more then just kill rate?
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How about we get some buffs for the poor low end killers like clown,demogorgon, and NURSE.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866081#Comment_866081
Not true. The stats only show where there might be a problem. We do our research before making any changes to see what that problem might be, if any. There's a lot of people who would be happy to share why they feel the Spirit needed to be changed if you'd like.
I'm not saying she needed to be changed, but really it was only the prayer beads and collision in my opinion. I feel like nerfs tend to go a bit over board in my opinion.