Vetrathene
Vetrathene
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- Vetrathene
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@FeelsVeryBadMan said:
- MoM is ridiculous, I agree with that.
- Jungle gyms are very much mindgameable and to a certain extent counterable aswell.
- LT walls are the most unsafe walls in the game, if you are truly complaining about those, you probably just need to get better at Killer.
- Super safe pallets? Where?
- BT - counterable, yet annoying to face
- DS - counterable, yet annoying to face
I really don't know what your problem is, maybe you should just get better before posting on the forums.
Both sides have stupid OP stuff.
The game comes to mind for super safe pallets. As well as badham preschool. Lery's as well. The Pale Rose herself. And many others. And I am aware they are mind gameable, I do my best to mind game them, but again, its way easier to do that on the survivor side since you can see so much more and react, wheras the killer has to guess to where the survivor is going next, putting more responsibilty and therefore more stress on the person who is on a team of one vs a team of 4. Also I didn't see you list what is OP on the killers side, just one thing that is on the survivor side.
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@HazeHound said:
@Vetrathene I hear you man, and these are my thoughts exactly.
But the game is in the best spot it have ever been: no vacuum, ds doesn't break game anymore, hatch standoffs removed, end game fixed and not punishing normal survivors. For this i am glad as heck!
But there are 2 map offerings that are just broken, haddonfield and crotus prenn. Every map of those 3 is literally infinite looping with some skill and balanced landing which is a shame. There should be one map on every realm designed in favour of survivors and one map designed in favour of killers, so you can't just burn map offering, take perk and be untouchable. I'm looking at you too, mirror Myers on Lery's and hex Doc on The Game.
Best realm is Trappers Estate. Many maps easy for survivors but there is possibility of getting shelter woods which is one of best killer maps. Every realm should be like this.
Also swf should be shown to killers so they can take better crap against them and not bully 4 randos with random iridescents.
I agree the SWF group(s) should be shown to the killer in the lobby.
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@gantes said:
All the other perks to slow the game down are objectively worse.
With Thanatophobia, you need 4 injured survivors to slow down a generator from 80 to 95 seconds iirc. Sloppy Butcher is only for healing.
Discordance falls flat if people play optimally and don't repair generators together. Devour Hope is a gigantic gamble and makes the game even more snowball reliant. And I don't think recommending noed to become a better player is even reasonable.
Ruin is the most reliable way of slowing the game down, even if it's, well, not reliable. I have seen very few players, even among streamers, who hit greats literally all the time. For each good skill check you hit, you lose ~4s. If someone activelly looks for the totem, the perk already paid for itself, because anything that takes survivors off generators is a blessing, even if for 30ish seconds. Even if they hit all greats they're still losing time. The flat amount of time it saves you merely by existing is worth a perk slot by itself, especially because killer's aren't exactly stacked on powerful perks. There are good perks, but when you compare it to survivors there's a lot less versatility. The opportunity cost for running Ruin is negligible when compared to the opportunity cost for survivors when choosing their perks.
It's not reliable but it's the best we have. Other options are either downright weaker or even more reliant on survivor mistakes.
This is it exactly, its the best we have and its not even that good, while survivors have a plethora of very strong perks that can be stacked together and placed on all 4 of them. And with the terrible map design combined with that AND adding SWF potentially on top of that, the odds are so stacked against killers. The devs just need some actualy competition and they will either finally be forced to balance the game or let it die. I hope Hide or Die is that game, but I've been let down before.
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@Kiskashi said:
Ah yes, when compared to the hot betrayal by your teammates who will more likely throw you at the killer to save their own skin sure. Both sides can suck for different reasons, saying one side is easier is giving a basic blanket overview without acknowledging both have flaws. Yes, survivors can make more mistakes and not get penalised as heavily because there are 4 of you to take the killers attention, but I'm getting tired of people thinking survivor is 100% hold hands and work together like a hit squad, use OP builds and hence is easy.
Survivor is definitely more a "choose your difficulty" but I wouldn't blanket it as braindead easy, especially for solos. At least as killer you don't have to side with people who barely grasp fundamentals of this game and hence can cause a complete loss or having to enter endgame etc. Can we just stop the bashing of either side for once? Killers need buffs yes but bashing people who play survivor isn't necessary
I'm not bashing people for playing survivors except the bullies. I'm bashing the map and game design that allow for them to get away with so much without putting in much effort. I play both, I was playing survivor right before I played killer, and the differences where as always stark and contrasting. I was relaxed and barely had to think while playing survivor, and I could run the killer around and get gens done, I could force the killer to have to split between two half of the maps by myself, and I was playing solo. Compare to my killer game where I have to be on 110% mode at every moment with no time for a breather or relaxation because as soon as I finish a chase with somneone I have to run across the map to try and keep another gen from popping, and its just egregiously stressful and takes all of my focus. Thats all I'm saying is I would like for both sides of gameplay to come somewhere to the middle of these completely different feelings.
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@NoShinyPony said:
Killers need to get buffed that way that they are able to face a 4 SWF group.
And then solos need to get more information so that they can also play gainst these more powerful killers.
I think that's the way to go. An indirect killer buff can also be a 2nd objective for survivors.
I agree killers need to be buffed, there needs to be more viable killers then two.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474746#Comment_474746
THIS +1000
Seriously my biggest issue with it. People like to say, just don't tunnel, but that isn't accurate. I get hit with this perk quite frequently and I don't tunnel almost ever.
Instead of an anti-tunnel perk it's currently just a 60 second immunity perk. Either the time needs to be reduced to like 45 seconds or as you said de-activate as soon as a different survivor goes down.
Yeah, I've had this problem as well. I just stumble across the person on a generator and am like, well your the only I can find, its been awhile, go to pick them up and they STILL have DS. The timer is just too long right now on it I feel.
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@Tru3Lemon said:
You dont understand anything about maps the only thing they need to fix are 1 of the macmillan cuz theres not alot of windows and also it wide open and theres alot of maps that are killers favor example the game its no favor on survivor but killer all swamp killer favor larry of you are using myers mirror addon and hag then yes its a killer favor only 1 map its survivor favor map and thats haddonfield but its kinda ez to get the survivor
The game is survivor sided, over 90% of the pallets are safe and can't be mind gamed. It is a smaller map, but again, multiple levels that have abusable loops for survivors to exploit.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/63193/map-balance
"Larger maps always favor survivors"
Hmm, I didn't know Lampkin Lane and Badham Preschool were big maps.
You are correct there, but I still think smaller maps are better, the problem with hadonfield and Badham is the use of multiple levels and badly placed vaults and pallets. It falls under the needing to change abusable loops.
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@NMCKE said:
Alright let's go through your list: Remember, there's a difference between a free second chance and a second chance that you need to work for.
- Mettle of Man: I agree, this is a free second chance perk and it needs more requirements in my opinion. Perhaps taking hits while the killer is carrying a survivor is a better option to make the player work for their second chance.
- Decisive Strike: This isn't a free second chance perk because you have to be hooked and then picked up within 40/50/60 seconds after being unhooked. In other words, if you don't focus the unhooked survivor, then you're mostly fine in my honest opinion.
- Borrowed Time: This perk directly counters camping/proxy camping but you as the killer have counter play. That counter play is called: Just down the unhooker and you solve both the DS and BT problems.
- Adrenaline: It's not a free second chance perk because you have to complete all 5 generators. You'll have better luck comparing this perk to Devour Hope because it rewards you for doing your job.
- Deliverance: I think we can all agree that this perk is NOT a free second chance perk. You have to safely unhook a teammate to use it and even after activating the perk, you may not be able to use it if the killer camps or someone else saves you.
If there are anymore perks that you can think of, I'll gladly review whether or not the perk is a free second chance perk.
I would say Aside from Adrenaline and Deliverance, none of those others require any kind of work though, they just activate at predetermined times, and while Adrenaline also falls under this category, I agree the work towards it is the generators being repaird. I also didn't mention Adrenaline or Deliverance. But Adrenaline on even one survivor is hard, on 2 or more it becomes a problem, and unfortunately the one perk most people think is OP is NOED is its counter. Deliverance is fine, it requires work and has a large downside.
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Nope, it goes down so slow after you leave thier terror radius, it dosen't take that long to mend even with addons, and the fact you can't see mending survivors with nurses calling is just annoying and kind of stupid. And I think Deep Wounds is supposed to be a threat, but its really not, much like most killer abilities in the game. Its like Freddy's dream world, its supposed to slow down the game, but its so easy to get out of it (unlike the source material), its virtually worthless.
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Since we know the killer main whine and whine until they get anything like DS or soon be be MoM nerfed. Lets return the favor.
Fine, then nerf MoM. I don't use NOED. I hate MoM As much as you probably hate NOED. So let's just remove them both from the game.
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@rch614 said:
No one should really be suffering. Right now we're talking about Borrowed Time, a perk that doesn't help the survivor running it whatsoever. It helps make sure the unhooked person isn't just tunneled to oblivion.
Camping and tunneling are legitimate strats. But Borrowed Time is a legitimate counter. You're even further punished if you tunnel through Borrowed Time and they have DS. Both of these perks are prevented by not tunneling and going after the savior or applying pressure to the others.
Fun is important in this game, but so are counters to something both sides do.
I agree with you on the principle of everyone should have fun. I just feel like something needs to be done about the current meta and abuse of these perks. Because this game has a lot of them, but so few are actually used at even low tier gameplay, and I feel thats a problem with perk design. And second chance perks are part of that problem. They're are choosen because they are get out of jail free cards. And when it comes down to it, very few killers use expose perks, so its not even really a fair comparison or trade. Just from my point of view and my experience, when certain perks/abilities/whatever are overused, something needs to be changed, either everything else needs a buff, or the offending abilities need a nerf or removal, depending.
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@Victory said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474623#Comment_474623
Mettle, is NOTHING compared to the dark days or DS 1.0, you obviously have never played back then. Killers have insanely broken addons that you cant counter like omega blink, 3+ blink, iri hatchets, insta saw, turning addons, trappers pink addons, hags mint rag, etc, etc. Killers don't have it hard, just because you got outskilled by some survivors doesn't mean the game is survivor sided, actually try to improve your gameplay. Everything else but myself mindset is toxic and horrible for the community, try to play both sides.
I was actually back there then, I started on release. I remember real infinites. I remember healing with self care before a killer could finish vaulting. I remember when all vaults where fast vaults. I remember when vaccum pallets where added. I remember D.S. 1.0. I remember each and every change to this game that has happened. And while it is not as bad as it once was, it can still use improvment, that is my aim, whether my opinions are right or not, I will still state them, and if someone provides an arugment, I will read it, or listen to it, and either continue my course or change my mind based on the information presented. Can you say the same?
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I agree that map design is one of the largest problem this game has. It allows for too much safe play for survivors to abuse vaults and pallets, and all of the maps need to be made a more uniform size, some are just WAY too big for most of the killers in the game.
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@Victory said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/63150/remove-survivor-second-chances
- DS, dont tunnel, if you tunnel the survivor you deserve to eat that fat DS, its your mistake that causes it, actually try to improve at the game. 2. BT: Don't camp, and no, end game isn't a good arguement because if you're camping end game you can just down the survivor unhooking and hook them, rinse and repeat. 3. Mettle really only bothers bad killers who suck at chases. Quit trying to ask for free kills when you already have the EGC for that, and actually try to get better at the game, survivors have to basically play swf if they want to survive with a sub-par BP gain. I don't know about anyone else but the newer generation of killer mains seem way more whiney and entitled than the ones during the dark days.
MoM borrows plenty of killers because it has no counter play and just makes it take even longer to down a person. Also survivors have a huge advantage in chases, as most of the map design is really suvivor sided with plenty of near infinite loops that the devs refuse to fix. DS has counterplay, but its still a free chance to escape for doing nothing but getting removed from a hook. BT encourages bad calls instead of trying to play smart. And all of these are made even worse by SWF.
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4-man SWF is cancer, always dodge.
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All of the killers besides Nurse and Billy. Every killer needs to be brought up to their power level so there are more viable choices for high rank play.
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474652#Comment_474652
Ah, time to point fingers at SWF. Alright, even with SWF Borrowed Time is usually necessary to save the survivor being camped. SWF can easily get those gens done and 3 escape but what about the camped survivor? Should they just be done as soon as its their first hook? Borrowed Time is fine.
Also usually you can use SWF altruism against them, especially if they do have BT. A lot of them will trade places on that hook.
Then it comes down to who is having fun, and right now it looks like someone is suffering in this scenario either way. And I feel it should be the one who is on a team of four, versus the one who is alone and playing by themselves. Its punishing the minority just because they are the minority. The devs want the most people to have fun, but when the minority of those people are needed to have the game be played at all, that causes a problem, and why I and other killer mains get frustrated. I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I also know I'm not the only one who has expressed dissatisfaction with the way the game is currently implemented and balanced.
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@HeHeBoii said:
All we got was false promises.
on their stream they once mentioned a compensation starting with extra BP.
they even said they want to “help” meanwhile they never gave a single thing.
not even a lousy indicator to show gown many SWF are in the lobby. Most game have a indicator like OW.
but “killers will doge” they doge already anyway, and they can adjust the cooldown easily so no problem.
shows u how much the devs care. As long as survivors are happy, don’t matter to them.
they don’t want to help killers combat an unfair advantage.
Yeah, the devs are pretty bad about this I agree. But we have to keep trying, its all we have until something comes along that actually gives them some competition. I'm hoping Hide or Die is that game, but we will see.
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@thrawn3054 said:
@Vetrathene That's what Myc does.
Except both BT and MoM don't allow you to insta down them. Now while its good to use against BT since you can use it against the saver, it still does nothing if they also have MoM activated.
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@rch614 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474632#Comment_474632
Yes doing gens is usually the best way to counter heavy camping but let's assume everyone is solo and there is no kindred. Most likely not everyone would be doing gens so Borrowed Time is there as a perk slot to COUNTER that. And if BT is such an issue, attack the savior. Don't tunnel.
And that would be fine if everyone played solo like was originally intended with the game. But with SWF these kinds of perks can break the game.
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Or also, give the killer a perk that overrides second chance perks like MoM and BT, but make them work for it. A totem or something that can be broken, or it only activates when someone is saved outside of their terror radius, or something.
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An indicator would be nice at least, I would take that as a bare bones compromise if the devs gave nothing else.
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@rch614 said:
Mettle is really the only "free" second chance perk here. DS is absolutely fine and has counterplay. Borrowed Time is essential against heavy camping and tunneling. Dead Hard can be baited plus exhaustion addons are a thing.
The solution to heavy camping and tunneling is to get the gens done and leave.
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@moonlunn said:
Lmaooooo what do you want them to do when they are communicating on a program outside of the game? There’s no vc in game and playing with friends isn’t”cheatin”
It is cheating if your using a third party program to communicate information that should not be known in game. and I want them to give a bonus blood point multiplier to killers, or an extra perk slot for each member beyond 2 (so 2 extras against 4 man SWF), or something at least. Why do the survivors get this kind of advantage? Why can't the killer get a helper or someone to play with as a friend? A spy to help them slow down generators and also inform them when its 3 or more members? AllI am asking for is either to give killers something in recompense, or allow killers to opt out of SWF with 3 or more players.
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@SlinkyJinky said:
Remove Hook rescues too! damned second and third chances!
While where at it, remove Survivors from game, turn dbd into a knitting simulator!
You assume I just want free kills. No. I want to still have to work for them, I'm just tired of playing my best only to be stopped by a perk that required no effort on the survivors part to give an extra hit, or be removed from a hook right in front of you, I want to remove anything that rewards bad or brain dead play. You can't always save everyone. But if someone is camping or tunneling, then stop trying to save the person, get the gens done, and get out. The killers gets no pips, no points, and only one kill. There is always a way around those things without the need for easy mode perks. And in the hands of skilled survivors using coms to cheat in SWF, they are far too powerful.