Vetrathene
Vetrathene
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@George_Soros said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/512588#Comment_512588
@Watery "frustrating", this argument shows the problem with players who complain about "strong" or "OP" killers.
This game is great BECAUSE it's often frustrating. I really don't mean to be condescending, but those who can't take a bit of frustration, should play something else.
Quoting one of the devs? Because they said just that and got a huge uproar about it when asked if they where doing anything about how stressful it is to play killer. Because if this is going to apply to killer, survivors should have a frustrating time too don't you think? And maybe some low ranks do, but when you actually learn to play as survivor its really easy and pretty much stress free. And most of the time your just on a generator being chill. As a killer you have to constantly be doing something, every second your not is more generator progression that your not stopping. And most killers don't have the tool to put pressure on even the smallest maps, not to mention the current trend of making gigantic maps that are nigh impossible to put any pressure on unless you play really boring and just camp three gens for the whole game, and thats not even a guarantee.
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@Shad03 said:
It should also allow debuffs to affect it, seriously.
Also Nurse's Calling. I get why they removed Snap Out of It, but mending literally means to heal.
Yeah, I agree with that, it would allow that perk to get some use and allow you to actually pressure survivors and make deep wounds a threat.
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Yeah, I based most of this on the doctor's Snap out of it, as I feel its similar enough to deep wounds as it prevents working on gens.
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I would rather them buff killers then nerf exisiting ones. I'm super nervous about the rework for Freddy, but after hearing about it I feel like they are somehow going to make him even worse now. I'll wait to see for sure before I lay down an actual judgement, but I have to admit I'm apprehensive.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/511651#Comment_511651
But just about everything else they have done as of late is either not meaningful enough or flat out sucks.
Well let's see what you put down, and I'll tell you what I think.
Freddy never needed a rework, he just needed QoL changes like Adrenaline and Self-Care not waking you up. Instead, they're about to destroy him.
Actually, the community seems to love the new Freddy, especially the Freddy mains. You saying they are going to destroy him doesn't reflect what the community is saying about him. While I agree a few QoL changes would make him better, he still had unfun factors about him such as the dream transition, action penalty, aura reading, and his invisibility. The rework removes all that frustration while making him really strong! :)
Peanits already said in another thread they won't have time to fix Ghostface.
They will have time to fix Ghostface, but just not within the PTB. He's still going to be a good killer after they fix him, and I think they are going to buff him as well!
Plague and Clown are still garbage.
Actually they are really good, but Plague struggles at high ranks a lot more than Clown does. I heard some Clowns are deadly, because they know how to use their AoE gas.
Legion went from trash to dumpster fire.
They can always change him later, such as making his FF status effect add-ons take effect on the first M2. Just remember, they have priorities, which means they can't do everything at once so just give them time. Also, they changed Legion because they didn't like the "No Counter Play" part about him, especially the moonwalking tactic. Now, he has counter play and he's a 115% killer, just like y'all asked for... again.
And you want me to PRAISE BHVR?
Well, I'm not telling you to kiss their shoes, but you should at least respect the effort they put into this game. It's not easy trying to balance an asymmetrical horror game.
I'm nervous about the new freddy. Plague and Clown are pretty mid to low tier. Clown is better then Plague because at least his power isn't controlled by the survivors. Legion is extra terrible now, all they needed to do was fix his moonwalk exploit and make his power so it had to be full to use. Instead they gutted her. Its so sad.
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@Watery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/511430#Comment_511430
On the contrary; that is 100% of all players; meaning, when this data was taken, it accounted for all ranks. Saying the data itself is useless is quite arbitrary; and I just want to say that killer doesn't necessarily need to kill in order to win. Sure, at higher ranks, you can resort to nurse, but SWF is much like solo players, as they only 7-10% more than solo.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/716/CIUBWKJ7XQV0.jpg
While I can understand that it's annoying to deal with traps, or setup killers, but I think an easy counter to that is easily resolved with addons.
require the survivor to give it to the killer. That is just abyssmal design.
Then, killers like Michael Myers, Hag, Trapper... and a few others would have be reworked. There's a difference from being a killer that has strengths and weaknesses, but taking away all that makes the killers feel uniform, and plain. I think some buffs could be necessary, but there's plenty of places that could go wrong. Do I want some killers buffed? Of course. But saying that I want all killers to be S Tier is near impossible with the design of this game. The rest can be fixed with perks and add-ons.
There's plenty of tools at your disposal. But, be reasonable; I don't want to be 4K'd everygame, nor do I want to face a Hillbilly level Killer everygame.
Another thing about Que's; keep SWF in a normal ranked que. The system itself does not need to be seperated, as it would make que times EXTREMELY long.
Even IF it was taken out, people would attempt to get in the same lobby. And if they didn't? They leave.
SWF is fine; it was going to happen whether the community wanted it or not. But nerfing it, while sounds great on paper, ruins the experience for other players. What if... I was a casual, trying to enjoy the game with my friends? Instantly destroyed. Boring games.
It shouldn't even matter at this point as it's been stated by the devs MULTIPLE times, that they do not have any plans for the changes of SWF.
Other more important things such as game health should be on the agenda; which is the goal for this year.
Exactly, its for all ranks, which means it dosen't show breakdown by specific ranks. You also mentioned that removing SWF would ruin peoples experince. But I would say SWF ruins the experince for the killer. So its ok for survivors to have a good experience but not a killer? That seems pretty typical of the logic presented to keep SWF around.
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@megdonalds said:
That's why you have to post in this forum like all the other whiners because you uninstalled it. Yes, makes sense as always.
Please offer something constructive or say nothing at all. If you don't agree state your reasons, calling someone a whiner accomplishes nothing but make you look like a fool.
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Is this in support of the changes or against them? Its hard to tell
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@KaoMinerva said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/510239#Comment_510239
Tell that to Trapper then. He completely sucks. I only got him leveled up for his perks and haven't touched his bum azz since.
I agree the trapper needs some buffs, he needs his old hit boxes back on his traps so they can actually block passages, its so dumb and frustrating to watch a survivor pretty much walk over your trap and trigger it, while you have to carefully avoid your own traps because of your larger hit box.
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@Watery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/511332#Comment_511332
Yes... I did read it.
I’m stating my opinion on the subject. I’m aware that some people see it that way, but look at it objectively.
Voice communication programs are not cheating. It would happen regardless; there’s nothing that the devs have on the agenda for it, since it’s a balanced feature.
All I did was ask if people have questioned whether or not it’s themselves, or they’re just blaming it on the game.
But let me be absolutely clear in saying this;
SWF doesn’t need to be changed. The solo experience should.
EDIT:Here’s Peanits data:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/364/U742KKVK0NQU.jpeg
EDIT2: If you’ve noticed... Solo players take up fifty percent of the game.
You get two survivors around 30 percent of the time. Three survivors ten percent of the time. You get killer less than ten percent of the time.
I don’t see the point is this whole nerf SWF movement when other issues need to be handled. It’s not an exploit, the devs have a DISCORD for this game that you can make a SWF in.
The problem with that is it dosen't show concentration of SWF by rank, so its a pretty useless statistic, as I can tell you there are a lot more SWF at high ranks then anywhere else, and it only gets worse as you go down in rank. I do think a lot of it could be mitigated with better map design as well as buffs to the weaker killers, and especially remove any powers that require the survivor to give it to the killer. That is just abyssmal design.
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Yeah, the spawn locations as well as how quickly they can be cleansed mean hexes are usually going to be destroyed. The only decent one is ruin because it has an immediate effect, and even that isn't that strong. While I think Devour Hope is good in theory, it rarely even makes it to 3 stacks to be useful. Haunted ground I agree is just to try and protect your real totems, I rarely get the insta down from it. Huntress lullaby is just bad, it shouldn't be a hex, make it into an obsession perk or something. And having to devote a slot to Thrill of the Hunt is just never worth it. And finally Third seal is just pretty meh and again dosen't deserve to be a hex perk. Maybe make it so its an effect that has to be cleansed by another survivor?
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@iTz_KilLaZ_x said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/511388#Comment_511388
Ive pretty much always found survivor to be boring. The only time I found it fun was the first week or two I started playing. I actually felt tense and scared. After I learned about loops and counters, I couldn’t play it again. It’s too easy and when you’re not getting chased, you sit there doing a “skill check” simulator where the skill checks don’t actually take skill.
What I don’t understand is why they don’t give survivors another objective that’s mandatory in order escape. It doesn’t have to be extra gens because that’d lame and even more boring. I honesty would play more survivor if it was actually challenging. The thing that kills you if you’re a good survivor isn’t the killer but crap teammates lol
I'm with you on the survivor being boring, I think a fair share of people who get joy out of it is because they are easier and you can bully the killer, too many people get joy out of ruining others days.
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@Watery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/511332#Comment_511332
Yes... I did read it.
I’m stating my opinion on the subject. I’m aware that some people see it that way, but look at it objectively.
Voice communication programs are not cheating. It would happen regardless; there’s nothing that the devs have on the agenda for it, since it’s a balanced feature.
All I did was ask if people have questioned whether or not it’s themselves, or they’re just blaming it on the game.
But let me be absolutely clear in saying this;
SWF doesn’t need to be changed. The solo experience should.
EDIT:Here’s Peanits data:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/364/U742KKVK0NQU.jpeg
EDIT2: If you’ve noticed... Solo players take up fifty percent of the game.
You get two survivors around 30 percent of the time. Three survivors ten percent of the time. You get killer less than ten percent of the time.
I don’t see the point is this whole nerf SWF movement when other issues need to be handled. It’s not an exploit, the devs have a DISCORD for this game that you can make a SWF in.
That dosen't mean it isn't a problem. I also agree the other problems are weak killers and poor map design, and both of those need to be fixed. I also think the killer should get some bonus for SWF based on the number they are playing against. And While Solo does make up the majority of the game, those stats don't show the concentration of SWF by rank, and that would be more telling to see I think.
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While its supposed to be an anti tunneling perk, it lasts too long, as I've managed to down and hook another survivor, stumbled upon the survivor who got unhooked, and go to pick them up because I figure they surely don't have DS because I didn't TUNNEL them, and then get hit by it anyways. It needs to go down to 20/30/40 seconds from 40/50/60 seconds.
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Yeah, you can tell they still have a survivor sided mentality by claiming they want to make 'fun' killers, but the killers who play them aren't having any fun because they are underpowered and against a good team of survivors, especially SWF, they become a joke. You just get looped and out perked, because survivor perks are far more powerful then killer perks in any kind of comparison, direct or otherwise. Its jsut really got me down because for a little bit it felt like they where finally moving in a good direction, removing vacuum pallets and making some good QoL changes, but the release of all of these killers that give power to the survivors is just...well, bad. And I am distraught and find it difficult to even play, as much as I want to, because of all of these issues.
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I'm really tired of the devs putting the killers power in the survivors hands. Because if thats the case, the survivors are not going to let the killer use it. Both the plague and ghostface and even to an extent legion, require the survivors to allow the killer to use thier power. And thats just EXCEPTIONALLY bad design. I thought for awhile the devs where getting better about this, especially after the spirit, but they obviously have learned nothing.
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Yeah, some of us want to be able to play killers we actualy like and at least have a chance to do well, instead of getting rofflestomped because we play weak killers. Some of us don't want to just win, some of us want to enjoy that, and not everyone enjoys billy/nurse. Thats all. I personally would love for Pig and Legion to at least be competitive.
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I prefer the old one. Or maybe make it into a smart phone?
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@OMagic_ManO said:
Just learn to play around it and use a high mobility Killer or high pressure Killer, all I can say, not an issue to me.
I really have never liked this argument, people should be able to play the killer they actually enjoy rather then be forced to choose a "high tier" option.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Really? You guys are essentially saying that they are straight up making up the data. If the stats say she's 4king a majority of the time then clearly she's at least high tier.
Therefor, if she has an issue then it ought to be traceable to a non-balance issue with her. Or in other words any tweaks should not be made with the goal of making her stronger, but rather simply improving her gameplay loop's engagement.
Is this based on all ranks or on ranks 1-5? Because the latter is the only data I care about for determining if a killer is balanced or not.
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Yeah, for some reason the auto aim decides you wanted to aim for the person being unhooked who is invincible, it happens to me all the time and it drives me nuts.
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I am always in favor of any buffs to killer that aren't nurse or billy.
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@miaasma said:
larger maps are bad for the game, i agree
the solution is not to make more maps like The Game, though
coal tower is a small map and is probably one of the best balanced maps for killers and survivors, i don't know why they don't follow that formula more with some variation to make their maps unique. pretty much every new map is a slog on survivor and horrible on killer
I agree, I hate the Game on both killer and survivor, it is just a really badly designed map from every conceivable point.
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@Milo said:
@Vetrathene so you want dbd to "die"?
I want DBD to improve in a more beneficial manner to all of the players, but I don't think it will go that way until they have true competition.
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@Mat_Sella said:
someone didnt watch the livestream.
You mean they are adding two new maps and rebalancing two old ones? One is badham, which is a small map and has its own problem. BUt Who knows if the new maps will be large or not, or what the other map they are changing is? While small maps like Badham can be a problem, maps being Large are just a problem in general and always favor the survivor, as only Billy and Nurse can put out the kind of map pressure to even potentially deal with them.
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@EqMonkVeeshan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/65813/battle-pass-is-dumb
you can help here lots of good games coming out soon. Hide or Die, Gold Express and Monstrum 2. get into them games testing and help shape the game the way it needs to be shaped.
I really hope Hide or Die takes a good chunk of this games business. I'm planning on getting it as soon as I can, here's hoping its good, here's hoping its better then DBD.
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The rift is seperate from the archive sort of, and it is a battle pass, and its not P2W but it is items you can only get by not only grinding but ALSO paying, so your working hard and paying hard and thats just dumb in my book. Down with the battle pass!
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I'm fine with this since survivors have BT, DS, MoM, Adrenaline, and a bevy of other ridiculous perks while killers get nothing even really comporable, most of thier expose perks are not as easy to get or activate as the survivor perks, as most of them require the survivor to do nothing to activate.
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Down with all battlepasses! Down with all lootboxes!
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@Condorloco_26 said:
Because you get hit by it after hooking 2 other people. That's not tunneling. That's just dumb.
This.
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@drunky26 said:
You don't have friends do you?
That's rude.
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I really hope the Game is the other map they are reworking. They also need to get rid of certain loops like groaning store house and other buildings like that, or at least if they have the OP windows spawn there needs to be an opening for the killer to go through nearby.
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@28_stab_wounds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/65693/why-are-the-devs-making-swf-easier-to-make
Because SWF is fun and keeps the survivor playerbase steady.
Some of you people have been dodging them, so they need to get less queue time.
Yeah, its weird people dodge them when they know or even think they are going against players using an unfair advantage the game was never designed for.
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The Devs didn't listen to the survey just like they don't actually care what goes on in PTB, they just do what they want because they know they have no competition in this genre currently so they just don't give a #########.
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@WolfPad06 said:
Ugh... the only thing they did was a QOL change to make lobbies for SWF much smoother and faster. How can you complain about that?
SWF is not the problem, it is the difference between SWF and Solo Survivors, and how you cannot balance the game in one way with both of those in mind. They need to create in-game coms and buff/change killers accordingly.
SWF will not go away or be nerfed in any way, shape or form. What kind of game would PUNISH people for playing with their friends?! That's non-sense.
I didn't say I wanted anyone punished, I'm just annoyed that something thats already a problem is getting a buff (Mind you a minor one), while killers are still getting no recompense for having to play against it. Killers can't play with friends except in KYF, so why do survivors continue to get more and more and killers get nothing, not even a mention?
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So why is there no talk of killer compensation for having to deal with the survivors getting an unfair advantage?
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@Shivadeathkiss said:
This has to be a bait post. Why does this community do nothing but whine and cry. For killers, let's just line the survivors up for you so u can get your 4 k every game, like fish in a barrel. Who needs challenge when we can just hand you everything you need, no skill required. And for the fewer whining survivors we can just hog tie the killers so that everyone can win ALL the time. No fun at all. Everyone needs to just relax start playing for fun again and quit taking everything so dang serious. It's just a GAME.
I literally said I want balanced and survivors to sweat, I said nothing about need a free 4k. I just want things to be as close to even as we can be. And I feel like many killers need buffs to get there right now, especially with how bad map design is; as over 90% of the maps favor survivors.
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@Mtom912 said:
How dare you play a game with your friends
If I play killer I can't unless I do KYF, and I need 4 other people to do that, which is not always an option. So its not really fair on many levels, isn't it?
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@Lyunai07 said:
you do not care about the mouth of the world! The weak killer .. the strong over-excited .. but stop damn it !! Learn to play killer! Even better .. tried to play surviving and you will understand that the killer is too powerful and strong !! That the killers in the day of today make that the scale is far from being equitable !!
Already the nerve of the surviving side perks that could help them, have been nerve and now the end game that with the closing of the trapdoor leaves the killer is big no matter what!
If the developers stopped listening to the mourners that you are killers and they would balance the game a little more and give the survivors the perks as they had before the nerve that would make a great part of the community!
I play both, I just prefer killer, or at least the idea of killer. Killer stresses me out, survivors just bore me. Not saying I always escape, but the majority of the time I do, its just too easy.
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Except killers don't get to play with their friends, so its not anywhere close to fair, most people who use it use voice, and 4 man swf squads are horribly unbalanced. It was a terrible mistake, and I really hope something comes out to give this game competition so they will actually balance it instead of just doing random things, over nerfing killers, thier perks, while only giving minor nerfs to survivor perks.
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I would like this just so they could remove SWF. ######### SWF. Its cancer and anyone who uses it, whether ######### or just people wanting to play with friends, spreads that cancer.
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Yep, this is all I get or 4 man SWF death squads, all I want is to play a game against some survivors that either don't DC the moment I down them or one where I am playing against a commando team that I can never touch.
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@feechima said:
If you encounter a lot of survivors bringing in instant heals then they likely play the game A LOT. I hoard my few like the Gollum with the ring from LOTR. As a matter of fact in the year and a half since I started playing DBD I've only brought in an insta-heal once and that was to get the achievement for bringing a rare item without white warding it. BT is a non-issue if you stop going for the person getting unhooked and instead going for the rescuer. DS has been nerfed, so again it is very fair and only punishes tunneling. MOM I heard is getting nerfed. L T walls only work if you know how to loop them, and most people, aside from your 2-5k hr players (and maybe not even then) do not know how to properly loop (myself included). There are unsafe pallets as well as safe pallets. They can't all be unsafe. There are also massive dead zones on each map.
The devs have also reworked all of the maps, to close down windows that made infinite loops, remove pallets, spawn them further apart, put more doors in Lerys and open up the roofs in Haddonfield so windows aren't OP. Nopallet Woods is a great killer map because the dead zones are disgustingly huge. The walls are spread far apart, and the gens spawn next to one pallet tops.
So my question is, do you want to chase survivors in an open field until you bloodlust them to death? That sounds like more your speed, OP.
I wouldn't mind BT if the freaking auto aim of the game usually causes me to smack the survivor being pulled off the hook when I am aiming for the one doing the saving. I really wish they would get rid of the auto aim because it has screwed me over way more times then it has ever helped me.
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@MezzaMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/63311/survivors-have-it-so-easy
WAIT, I can understand not liking some of those things but are you seriously still crying about DS when it has been completely nerfed? It only can be used if the killer is a tunneler, so it's only an annoying perk if you are an annoying killer, so maybe stop tunneling? 💁♀️
I can't even begin to tell you you how many times I go to chase someone else, lose them or decide I need to put pressure on generators, happen to find the person I put on the hook ages ago, pick them up, and they STILL have DS. It lasts way too long.
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I have a lot of problems with SWF, I'll i'm asking is to know when I'm going against them. I would prefer even more then that, but a little something would be nice. And not even arguiging that its unbalanced (which it is) but that again its unfair, it encourages more people to play survivor because they can play with friends, but a killer has to go it alone. And there is KYF, but that requires a group of five, which not everyone has the ability to do. And if the devs where really about making the game more fun for everyone, they would do something about SWF. But @Sairek is right, the devs only look at the short term and don't seem to be doing anything to keep the game going in the long term.
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THey should at least let the killer know who is in and how many people are in the swf group in the lobby. Its only fair if the survivors get to play together, the killer should get to know it. Its exclusionary to the killer because you can't bring any freinds along to play with you. So why do survivors get to do it? It breaks the game, it was never meant to be in, and it was the beggining of survivor entitlment and the devs bowing backwards for them.
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I would like this change as well.
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Destroying a pallet dosen't take long. Being looped around it 2-3 times then breaking it takes quite a long time.
And every map listed there is very survivor sided. Yamaoka estate is massive, meaning if your not nurse or Billy, its really hard to put on any map pressure. THe pale rose isn't as bad as it was, but the driftwood upper/under sections are a godsend to survivors, and its even worse on grim pantry with those and the pantry itself. Mother's dwelling is also survivor sided as its a huge map with a building that has too few entrances for the killer. And the game again is FULL of safe pallets that can't be mind gamed around.
I agree NOED is a problem, but at least it does have counterplay, but I feel the same way about DS, I think it rewards a survivor for getting caught and hooked, even if it has counter play.
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I'm tentative about the future, while the game is in a better state then it was previously, it has gotten worse before, and could get worse again. I think the end game change was a nice start, but until I start seeing some map reworks and/or real killer buffs (as legion just got nerfed, I understand why, but too much was taken away and not enough given). Honestly, I want to see something compete with this game, because I think that will force the devs to actually make this game fun for everyone, instead of catering to the majority and once in awhile giving something to the minority to keep them placated. I am glad they at least seem to acknowledge killers these days, but I still feel they are treated as the least favorite child.
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Give me a list of killer sided maps. Because the closest I can think of is shelter woods, and I consider that the most balanced map in the game. The game has a plethroa of safe pallets that can't be mind gamed around, forcing the killer to break them to even proceed around the map in some cases. I also didn't see any mention of Perks that killers have that are OP?
As for what game I am playing, the one everyone else is. I play both, and yes I prefer killer, because I get bored with survivor to be honest. Because it is easy. If you spend the same time learning and practicing both, one takes far less time to get good at then the other. Namely survivors. I literally just played 5 games in a row as survivor, only one of those was a 4k for the killer, the rest where either no K or 1K, which according to the devs, shouldn't be the average per game. It should be 2K. And I'm saying this as the one on the survivor side in the case of these games.
Also I am not in the wrong thread as I am talking about survivors and how to balance them. Most of the experiences that are being used against me are taking it from the point of view that survivor is a 1v1 game, but this game is a 1v4 game, and those 4, even without SWF, can work effectively to deny many killers, even good ones, from any meaningful or fun gameplay.
When it comes down to it, I'm not asking nor ever will ask Survivors to be nerfed into the ground. I want balance. I want both sides to have fun, and for it not to be a stressful experience on either outside of it being a competitive game.