UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002593#Comment_4002593
And what is a "win" you?
To me: Survivor win = I escaped (I don't care how many other made it out, survivor win individually)
Killer:
0-1K = loss
2K = draw
3+K = win
Ideally it would be the same for both sides. BHVR should reward all Survivors as a team. But currently your version is the standard. It's how MMR operates as far as I'm aware.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002600#Comment_4002600
My experience with Distortion survivors: I didn’t see it that often, and during the big Distortion wave I was in a different meta anyway, so it didn’t tilt me.
When I did see it, it was usually people waiting for someone else to take first chase, trying to shed the tunnel, and not covering dead hooks even with a clear tunnel and two hook states left—you can step in there, even if you go down, the killer usually has a clear target anyway.
I probably get different lobbies than Firellius (~500h); vs brand-new killers stealth might work and they’ll play hide-and-seek, but in my lobbies killers grab pressure elsewhere instead of searching forever. (same as i do)
Watching some of them in spectate, the camera control/movement often looked like Distortion put them in lobbies they didn’t belong in; when they finally met the killer it was insta-down. I’ve always been relaxed about it because as survivor you don’t control your team—once you hit ready you accept whoever you get; they might be doing achievements/challenges, meme runs, recording YouTube, whatever. You can’t expect optimal, team-win play with randoms. For what it’s worth, I never sold Distortion players to the killer, but I saw plenty of randoms deliberately feeding the stealth player; from killers I rarely saw toxic after-chat. Different lobbies, different experiences.
idk. Only my experience.
As killer, Distortion never bothered me tbh. As surv? sometimes, y. but it was super rare …
but uhm.. it was super rare—and I never had a problem taking the tunnel if the distortion ppl didn’t want chase and were otherwise doing their job. What did annoy me was when there’s no cover even though teammates are right there and could bodyblock—but you see that with or without Distortion (BHVR, better matchmaking pls).
buut.. I heard way more Distortion hate from survivors than from killers—like, a lot more.I never understand the hate either. I saw a lot of Survivors that were severely anti go next as well despite knowing how solo trials tend to play out.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4002518#Comment_4002518
Your intentional mischaracterization of the “other side” is exactly why we can never have productive discussions about balance. You know perfectly well that nobody is saying “4K every game or I uninstall”, but you don’t care. Stop with the “us vs them” garbage.
To be fair, if the mechanic that could potentially cause less steamrolls is protested into obsolescence, is the end result not the exact same?
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I believe in the pinging system over adding voicechat. I think that alone would be a significant boost like when they added being able to see what others are doing. Voicechat would just break the immersion of everything in the game as well as make playing survivor more annoying as theres no shortage of people you know would sit there blaring music or swearing at you everytime you miss a skillcheck or run the killer to their generator by accident or just general bming. But the ping system worked well in mobile and didnt make survivors any more overpowering than they alredy were, just helped with communication since there werent many mobile swfs (not even sure if you could swf on mobile.)
To be perfectly honest, the immersion has been broken for years now. Less atmosphere, more comp-focused play, and a host of content that doesn't match the theme of the game at all. Personally I think the funniest part of adding comms would be seeing Survivors ignoring the trial entirely to stand there and yell at each other with crows over their heads. 😝
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001716#Comment_4001716
Distortion was heavily used by rats, survivors which only hid and did this even if they werent hooked and could take chasee for surivor which is ead on hook or right after unhook went hid like ninja just for the killer to see only unhooked survivor which was tunnel (imagine this low mobility killer with no info about survivors on map and only notification he gets is someone unhooked hooked survivor so what he will logicaly he will go back to the hook and there he finds only unhooked survivor guess what will happen next). From what I seen distortion was used by same kind of players which are hinding on 3 survivors left and just wait for hatch on 2 survivors left, hiding, covering and waiting patiently for other survivors death thats it just rats in general whithout strategic teamwork potencial (only one is when killer is trying to locate them and looses too much time but that was rare as pure basement bubba guarding his chest).
As usual, everything with DBD is anecdotal but I personally don't buy this argument so much. In my own experience, I only remember one trial in particular where a Survivor was running it purely to rat for hatch. I think it likely had a lot more to do with Killer being unable to find Survivors over Survivors sabotaging their own team. That was the same time where Survivors were more likely to hide once the trial bottlenecked, which BHVR has nerfed a couple times already purely in Killer's favor. But selfishness was a good enough excuse to advocate and push for those nerfs without criticism (in my opinion).
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001920#Comment_4001920
Exactly. 100 true. My words. That’s why it’s wild to see someone who’s against tunneling also claim Distortion was “good design” — when it literally made it more likely the killer only ever saw the same non-Distortion teammate if he didn’t want to tunnel. That’s a pretty massive double standard.
I also saw way more complaints about old Distortion from survivors than from killers. And every killer knows where the pressure comes from when you can’t find anyone and you’re not about to play hide-and-seek forever: the hook, the freshly unhooked, and the injured.
To be totally fair, Distortion was always popular but definitely gained prominence both after the buff and when tunneling out the first Survivor became even more common. I'm not ashamed to admit that letting someone else get tunneled out first became the proper play. It was like turning lemons into lemonade. In that situation, you would ideally want to address tunneling instead of nerfing one of the few defenses against it (despite how messy it was) but as we know that is not what happened.
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no mither besties 😎
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Off the top of my head, I really don't like Mindbreaker. I don't run exhaustion typically so it's meaningless for me there. I just dislike having my basekit aura blanked out for any period of time. Especially post-Distortion.
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What I don't understand is the desire to penalize one side so severely, but also the entitlement that they have to be player characters and not NPCs. I really think the ideal game for a lot of players would just be PVE but apparently not.
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I don't track my stats, but according to the milestone challenges, my escape rate is at 37.5% since the start of the new Rift. That puts it comfortably in line with where they want me to be, but it's just data. It doesn't characterize what the trials are like or how fun they actually are to play. I extend that to Killer as well, though I imagine it must be at least a little less miserable.
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Dead Sands is easily the worst map in the game for me. It feels like an adult-sized sandbox with nothing going on. There's very little to prevent an early steamroll and it's incredibly boring on top of that.
I'd have more to say about Fazbear's and TWD but they're some of the rarest maps in the roster right now.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001275#Comment_4001275
Hehehehe, I felt that... which wsy were you switching I wonder?
I was playing 2v8, and I legit could not hit skillchecks all game... I had to play healer a while and use the heal boost to hopefully avoid getting any while I figured it out xD
I eventually learned to quell my skillcheck instinct and started timing off sight, and I got the hang of it... and man, it was so easy. The only time I had trouble was when I wasn't quite ready for it and I went back to autopilot again xD
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001297#Comment_4001297
Indeed xD
It's strange, the console input lag makes skillschecks surprisingly engaging with the input lag... I ain't kidding about the 4 o'clock skillchecks...
I remember one time I got 4 of them in a row Vs. Doctor with Huntress Lullaby... I lost 60% gen progress in 12 seconds 😩 😩 😩
I definitely ain't bored on gens... I'd say I'm much more:
https://media.tenor.com/-OXdSVC9xVIAAAAM/mr-bean-carpark.gif
In fact, advice I give to PC players... if you see Huntress Lullaby, do try and cleanse it. That perk is rough for your console brothers and sisters 🥴
I'm gonna be honest. I'm that guy that if the trial is already ROUGH and I see Lullaby is in play, I'm like "alright I'll just do other stuff instead of gens". 😵
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@runningguy said:
that is the exact reason i gave up being a survivor main. it has nothing to do with being tunneled or being slugged.
The reason is because at its core, survivor gameplay is boring. 1 person looping the killer? 3 others should be sitting on gens doing diddly squat. Generally boring concept.
Trying to win in solo matches is difficult, again not because of tunneling or slugging but because no one does gens. Even now when i play survivor i go in with full gen build because i know if i dont do gens then they just dont get done at all. I dont complain too much because the objective of survivor is do gens and escape so i know what im signing up for when i play that role which is why i avoid survivor these days.
The only time people want to do gens is when they are on death hook and they dont want to die, then its "ok dont tunnel me, let me sit on a gen" its a very frustrating role lol
It really depends for me. Matchmaking is the element that affects the most, bar none. Then there's the types of Survivors I'm matched with, which is more of a luck thing than anything else. And then there's camping/tunneling/slugging. More often than not, the first two fail in some way and then we're too handicapped to overcome the third.
@Nazzzak said:
I don't play survivor anymore (outside of specific quests) but i can tell you, it never used to be this bad a few years ago. You always had useless team mates but they were few and far between. I feel like maybe they're not retaining enough new players to keep them all in the same SBMM bracket while they learn, and they now get thrown in with the general playerbase. I dunno. You always hear about "the weak link," because it's just the standard these days that solo teams will have at least one survivor with low hours. They're usually the ones I'll let live when I get them in my games because it's not their fault the matchmaking system failed them.
The first 100 hours is usually not a bad time, so I never know if it's just me waxing nostalgic or not, but that's my experience too. The game wasn't perfect years ago (still very frustrating), but I don't remember it feeling remotely this bad around 2019-2021. Back then a lot of Survivor complaints felt flippant and a lot less valid than they do now.
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They're archaic elements of the game. Years ago, it was most common that you'd pop 3 or 4 gens and then the game would slow down. There was enough time to do other things in that window before finishing the last gen or 2. On Survivor, gens have gotten so valuable over time that, like you said, it's considered throwing to do anything but them if you're not in chase. BHVR keeps adding those conditions I think in the hope that they will encourage staying off of gens for a bit, but they're not enticing enough. Not only are the effects not worth the requirements, the requirements aren't worth the loss.
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Just for not getting banned in all that time, you at least deserve a free milkshake.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001010#Comment_4001010
I think this highlights exactly the impasse the devs need to navigate at this time: who is this game for, the chills or the sweats? They can either continue to cater to those with 80%+ KRs and the few teams who can maybe go against them, or they can cater to average players who aren't going to get a doctorate in map layout, pathing, and perks. The people who just want a few fun matches with friends after work, or those have turned this into a personality-defining lifestyle. There doesn't seem to be room for both with the current matchmaking structure and mechanics.
It's been asked for years and years now and I don't think they'll ever say. The staff that goes on video to talk about the game always treat it as a competitive experience, but the patches always bounce back and forth. I think they're trying to play both sides to not eliminate anyone, but in the process frustrate everyone instead (in my opinion).
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Gens are easily the most boring aspect of the game and punishing them makes that worse. Ideally, along with hook, they can balance other elements of the game around them.
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@UndeddJester said:
Funnily enough, I actually started playing DBD on my new gaming laptop instead of PS5… and I hit a revelation... I now understand why people say gens are boring...
Good God, skillchecks are so damned easy on PC, I feel like a kid who grew up on gruel and tried chocolate for the first time at the age of 21. It's mind blowing... you literally just click when the line goes over the crit bar... there's no need to time anything at all, you just follow it with your eyes and click... they are so trivial it is embarrassing xD
On console skillchecks are actually hard... you've gotta stay alert and really time it right to hit a great, and the dreaded 4 o'clock skillcheck is brutal. I've had so many close calls and near misses on those skillchecks, I've genuinely breathed sighs of relief when I've clutched an important check... especially when using something like Fast Track or Specialist. BNPs? Butt clench moment every time. Sometimes even Decisive Strike an be an arse.
You put Huntress Lullaby on any of that, good sodding luck...
If people wouldn't get so mad about it, I'd genuinely suggest putting the input lag on consoles as standard for PC, cause I had to stop playing on laptop for fear it would mess me up when I go back to console xD
I will literally nod off on gens if I'm tired enough. I don't mind doing them though.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001175#Comment_4001175
You shouldn‘t have your hopes too high
Real. 😭
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001179#Comment_4001179
I don't believe you. What is the "rulebook" for survivor? I don't think that is a real thing.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SAN9XZIBK17M/herunterladen.jpg
OK.
@ArcT said:
Are you serious right now?
Using flashlights.
Body blocking.
Sticking to gens.
Pre-Running.
Sabotaging a hook.
Using Head-on.
Using Blast Mine.
Using Flashbang.
Using Power Struggle.
Using Dead Hard.
Using Distortion.
Hiding.
Trying to attract attention.
Stunning the killer.
Having any second chance perk.
Protecting teammates.
Not protecting teammates.
Unhooking too fast.
Unhooking too slow.There are very few things that survivors can do, especially when it comes to direct interactions with the killer, that are not constantly cited as toxic/unacceptable behavior that justifies retribution. The difference is that killers are given the agency to enact their retribution. Survivors can only appeal to BHVR to change the rules, like any other unpleasant/unhealthy meta in any online game, or killers' better nature, which is treated as 'attempting to police them.' "Please don't do this," vs "If you do this, I will punish and BM you" are both rules for the other side, but only one has agency.
Hit the nail on the head.
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@Wolf65 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000552#Comment_4000552
I don't need to, because killer don't brag about how the other plays should be allowed to play.
Survivors mindset: there is no gen rush, we just die our objective, it's the killers Lack of skill.
But killer should only be allowed to kill the way we wabt it. Killer should be not allowed to chase after an an unhooked znless he gut fully healed. Killer should be allowed to hook the same survivor in a row. But in case he dowbs a recwbt hooked survivor,, that guy deserves a free unbreakable.
You notice the difference? Survivor DEMAND rules hiw the killer should play. That's not healthy for a PVP game. If you want that, go ask for a PVE mode with killer bots.
There's a rulebook for both sides. As @Firellius said, a lot of it has gotten removed the last 3 years but you still have things Killers complain about in equal measure. Think of any reason why Killers would camp/slug/tunnel and there you go.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001061#Comment_4001061
They will also make a lot of maps a lot smaller.
Praying they don't do any more like the new Eyrie variant. That map is so boring and feels so pointless.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000950#Comment_4000950
I agree. Matchmaking isn’t “random”—it pulls from broad buckets and stitches lobbies together. There are almost always 1–2 players who don’t belong in that trial. That mismatch gives the killer free value. It’s why so many games are won even in good/very good/high MMR: the lobby often includes people who clearly shouldn’t be there.
That’s how I see MMR—based on my experience, when it actually works (which it often doesn’t).Brand New Players (Baby MMR) — Heavily Killer-sided
Survivors lack game knowledge; killers dominate easily. (SWF or not doesn’t matter.)
- Tunneling: Deletes a player instantly; zero counterplay awareness. Panic unhooks + bodyblocks feed downs.
- Slug/Proxy: Total slaughter even from inexperienced killers; survivors don’t split or reset wrong.
Somewhat Experienced — Still Killer-sided
Survivors start to understand basics but lack coordination and loop knowledge. (SWF often prolongs the match, but usually doesn’t change the outcome.)
- Tunneling: Usually still a massacre/EZ win. Early tunnel at 5–4 gens forces trades → dead by midgame, even if the killer is inexperienced.
- Slug/Proxy: Works consistently; teams stack at hook and hand you doubles.
Moderately Skilled — Map/Perk decided
Both sides can win; killers can dominate with strong perks or favorable maps. (SWF = small edge.)
- Tunneling: Strong line, especially with info/anti-gen/anti-heal; mistimed tunnels waste tempo.
- Counterplay: anti TUNNEL perks, bodyblocks, safe unhooks, reset paths appear; escorts/bodyblocks peel target to strong tiles.
- Slug/Proxy: Still effective at spawn/2-hook clusters; weaker if survivors spread and pre-run.
- Tunneling: Usually EZ win. Early tunnel at 5–4 gens forces trades → dead by midgame.
Good Players — Slightly Survivor-sided
Survivors use teamwork and efficient loops. A single lost 50/50 can still snowball into killer pressure; tunnel/slug/camp can secure wins. (SWF = major edge.)
Why they usually lose the resource/time race
- Opener misplayed: Bad spawn spread → early down near a gen. Team spends HP/bodyblocks to deny first hook, but pays in time + states. Killer gets huge value → tempo lead.
- Gen economy poor: Instead of a 1 chase / 1–1–1 split, two sit on the same safe gen, create 3-gen clusters, or trade 25–30s running for 5% progress → free regress, no map pressure.
- Heal vs. tempo misweighted: Double-heals on-path (or right after an unsafe/under-hook save) burn 30–40s and hand the killer a second chance. Better: off-path reset, heal only if it creates distance, otherwise pre-run.
- Unhook macro scuffed: Unsafe saves with no escort line, no pre-run from the unhooked → 2-for-1 trades. anti TUNNEL perks/BT gets used for greed/aggro instead of buying distance.
- Pallet economy: Strong pallets dropped too early (or greeding 50/50 fillers) → later you lack anchors. Killer trades a hit for center position → wins long-term tempo.
- Info discipline missing: No quick signals (who’s on which gen, who escorts whom, where to rotate) → colliding rotations, one quadrant, zero spread.
- Weak proxy answer: Into proxy, they stay too close instead of pre-running to next tile/off-angle gen → grab/corner/re-down.
- Tunnel mitigation sloppy: No anti tunnel chain prepped; bodyblocks burn strong tiles around key gens and create dead zones → midgame fight worse.
- Killer: Still the most reliable line if opener gives you a hook near the triangle. work trough anti TUNNEL perks, cut escort lines, proxy only for guaranteed trades, slug if needed. If the chain starts burning clock, swap before you lose map control.
- Survivor: they don´t expect the tunnel, but if it happens they are know their job, ppl are ready to laser focus gens or are ready to bodyblock. (bad cover can give the killer huuge value)
- Hard tunneling still wins the games most of the time.
Very Good Players — Survivor-sided (SWF = huge edge)
Most killers win only off survivor mistakes; coordination and knowledge carry.
- Opener botched: Spread fine, but early greed on first hook → dumb 2-for-1 near key gens; killer insta gets value, grabs tempo.
- Gen split off: Stack mid or break the wrong 3-gen → little progress, free regress.
- Heal vs. tempo: Staying injured too long or double-healing on-path = 30–40s gone. Better: off-path reset or pre-run.
- Shaky unhook: Looks “ok,” but no escort line / unhooked doesn’t run ahead → 2-for-1 instead of distance.
- Pallet mistakes: Drop strongs too early inside the triangle or greed a 50/50 → hit + center position for killer; anchors gone later.
- Comms ≠ roles: Lots of talk, no roles: two escort, nobody anchors a side gen → rotations collide, spread collapses.
- Weak proxy answer: Try to brute-force through proxy instead of pulling aggro and pre-running → grab/re-down.
- Tunnel setup sloppy: anti tunnel perks chain mistimed, (players uses this perks for distance, not for trolling/ego) bodyblocks out of order; escort drags chase through the triangle and burns anchor tiles
At high level, one bad call (position/trade/route) hands the killer position + regress. One minute of messy macro deletes minutes of perfect chases/good survivor value.
- Tunneling/Slugging: Assume it every single match. It forces the errors the killer needs and breaks team coordination.
- Survivors assume tunnel from second 0 (expanded): Pre-plan anti tunnel chains, pre-run on unhook, escort away from the triangle, 1 chase / 1–1–1 gen split, off-path heals, avoid greed vaults, pull proxy outward and don’t force through it.
- At “Very Good,” tunnel/slug secures tempo—nothing more. Clean escorts + info discipline are what break it. If escorts are crisp and the killer overcommits, force a swap and take the gens they just donated.
Top-level Players (High MMR / “Comp”) — Heavily Survivor-sided (SWF nearly unbeatable)
- Opener botched: Spread’s fine, greed first hook → dumb 2-for-1; killer insta gets value → tempo swing.
- Gen split off: Not 1 chase / 1–1–1; stack mid or break wrong 3-gen → tiny progress, free regress.
- Heal vs. tempo: Stay injured forever or double-heal on-path = 30–40s gone. Do off-path resets or pre-run.
- Shaky unhook: “Safe” save with no escort line; unhooked doesn’t run ahead → 2-for-1.
- Pallet mistakes: Drop strongs too early inside the triangle or greed a 50/50 → hit + center position; anchors gone.
- Comms ≠ roles: Lots of talk, no jobs—two escort, nobody anchors a side gen → rotations collide.
- Weak proxy answer: Try to brute-force through proxy instead of pulling aggro and pre-running → grab/re-down.
- Pallet/Tile economy: Use strong pallets late and only for save routes/key zones; don’t greed 50/50s.
- Slug maement: Pick up safely (with info + position). If it isn’t safe, trade tempo and slam gens; don’t allow chain re-downs.
- No unnecessary stacking: Don’t all stack mid; keep spread so the killer can’t get a center lock + regress.
- no "wonderchases" wins the games at this point, good surviormacro wins the matches.
- Tunneling/Slugging: Standard at this tier — the low-variance killer wincon. Timed past anti TUNNEL perks, situational slug for position, selective proxy at hook clusters to lock triangle/tempo. Assume it every match.
Survivors assume tunnel from second 0 (what to do): anti tunnel perks chain prepped, escort pathing away from triangle, 1 chase / 1–1–1 split, off-path heals. No greed, no on-path double-heals. Pull proxy outward—never brute-force through it.
I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say nice work on the response. I think that's a pretty thorough roundup of what I've seen discussed over the years. 😎
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000815#Comment_4000815
because a lot of
survivor squads just throw. Part bad matchmaking, part emotions, part straight-up inefficient play.
But so do killers. You can't dismiss KRs because they don't show what you want them to.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000853#Comment_4000853
oufm, not hard to do the math:
We've been over this before: Stop trying to math this game out. It is far too complex to do so. You're accounting for a grand total of zero complexities and are even assuming the killer is AFK most of the time in your example.
The reality is that no game works out according to the numbers.
Remember that motte-and-bailey thing? You're back on your witch hunt for the immaculate survivor team.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000950#Comment_4000950
I don't know that I'd say Survivor is the power role
There is a spot where they are the power role, and that's with the process of hooking. That's where the killer has to respond to survivors instead of the other way around.
I personally think that that should be looked at, but I think that might be, as the kids say, a hot take.
Not a bad point, although that gets weaker as the trial goes on as well. But those trials were all 3 Survivors dive the hook is pretty intense.
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@Sava18 said:
My absolute favorite game is an all or nothing end game, everyone lives or everyone dies, at least from killer pov. But it's been quite a long time since that happened to me and even when I played killer a ton it was an extremely rare scenario requiring a competent and willing survivor squad. A survivor will UB or deli when I've thought I've won only to come back in to start picking people again instead of leaving. Can probably count that experience on a single hand but man is it great.
One time me and an Oni were hashing it out hard pre-year 6. I 4%ed off hook fast enough while being abandoned, ran to the open gates, went down, DSed, kept running, and I think he got me again. SO FRUSTRATING at the time, but I really do miss the balls to the wall play. Endgame is too simple and one-sided now.
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000957#Comment_4000957
I'm also a martyr. I'm pretty much incapable of leaving if someone's on hook at end game. Even if I'm the last one left, I'll just go trade their death for mine. It's why my stats will always be in the dumps.
I get selfish now if I know it's a fool's errand, but I used to play purely altruistically when WGLF was still fun. Feels bleak these days as someone that prefers altruism and stealth. 😭
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@MissMischief99 said:
Just DC, take the stacking penalty until not enough survivors can even play to start a game. If you’re a killer, you just have to whine. Survivors have to take drastic measures to get anything done.
Not that I advocate doing this AT ALL, but historically it seems like agitating the staff gets the most done. But hopefully we're moving away from that now.
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My favorite trials are ones where I get to stealth and hide from the Killer and also engage in meaningful chases where I can help my teammates, play altruistically, and not be abandoned in the end (unless I sacrifice myself). I'm almost too willing to play martyr in the game, which might come as a surprise. I just don't like when it feels like I'm peacing out for nothing at all. Sitting on 1.5 gens between getting chased off, then downed and tunneled out is the opposite of how I want to experience the game but it's also the most common scenario.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000807#Comment_4000807
because a lot of survivor squads just throw. Part bad matchmaking, part emotions, part straight-up inefficient play. That’s why KR sits high. If you’re even a halfways stable player and your group plays cold-blooded, max-efficiency, Survivor is still the power role vs most killers on the roster.
I don't know that I'd say Survivor is the power role, but where I'm willing to concede is that the the strongest nerf to Survivor overall is matchmaking. I would go as far as to wager that SWFs favor far less from comms than they do avoiding pubs. With the right synergy and skill level, you very well can negate a lot of the worst aspects of the game. Not completely, but enough to where the game is both engaging and not an instant steamroll. It's why you can strike gold even in solo.
But matchmaking causes the game to be so random that those sorts of trials are rare. Without proper tools to give each individual Survivor a certain level of autonomy, the game is in a place to where they deal with incredibly frustrating gameplay with increasingly diminished returns. And at that point something has to give.
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@thrive2survive said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456470/does-dbd-favor-killers
Of course it favors Killer overall. They want to keep the kill rates at 60% instead of 50% because they don't have the balls to nerf SWF for all the information it provides. When they do that, then I'll believe they're looking at both sides. Until that point, it stays the same.
inb4 they nerf SWF (which technically they already did given the KR) and the game is still Survivor-sided. 😴
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000933#Comment_4000933
I mean yeah the new chapters brings back some players, my point is that player retention is awful, they got their highest peak ever and average of 100k players whole summer, they're already gone and we're back to early 2025 numbers. If they're ok with terrible player retention then sure, good for them
Oh yeah, the game is a revolving door. Bringing new players in alone has to be a full-time job. Eventually they'll run out of bigger licenses and the game will dwindle into maintenance mode. Better to iron out as many of the kinks now.
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@cburton311 said:
Interesting declaration, if you are part of the 1% its toxic but somehow that means the whole community is toxic. I would suggest you use the in game tool: tune off chat. Toxic chat can longer touch you.
They will never ban people for chat that doesn't cross any social lines. Stay away from identity, race, religion, and they shouldn't ban. A lot of people enjoy the trash talking aspect. I don't personally, so I don't read the comments. Its up to me whether I allow them to offend me or not. It should definitely not be policed by behavior.
This is where I'm at too. It might just be a terminally online thing, but nothing that can be said to me in DBD (especially with the chat filter) would make me want to have action taken. None of it is that personal unless I'm giving them information about myself, which isn't wise in the first place. I mainly keep chat off too though.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000936#Comment_4000936
Eh. I'm done with the Rift by a month in. XP giving shards is appealing though. Give me more of those, faster, and I'll suffer more. I've got plenty to unlock still.
The Rift honestly has ugly cosmetics 9 times out of 10 these days (in my opinion), but there's usually something I want in there so it does help. But it's mostly the stuff in the shops for me too.
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@jayoshi said:
Some people only play one side and it shows
Can't really blame people when they're not forced to. You also have to consider the amount of people that do play both but keep their alliances with one side (i.e. Killer/Survivor is so hard and when I play the other side it's so easy). The most important thing you can do is play the game however your heart desires, but drop any of that baggage once you leave the game and compare your experience with the experiences of others to see the bigger picture. They will always fill in any gaps you're missing.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000739#Comment_4000739
I'm pretty much done with soloq. I don't know what incentive could make me play without company to suffer with. The 5x wasn't enough for 2v8. Maybe 10x would make me suffer occasionally.
XP. Every time, I will play for XP. Grind out the Rift faster and earn Iris quicker.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000777#Comment_4000777
The thing is all is takes is 1 person to press that disconnect and they spoil the game not just for the killer, but the other survivors as well. If dcing had no penalty then youd see it practically every game since there is literally nothing stopping them, and we all know how petty people can be.
Some times removing player agency and freedom is the way to go about things. This is without a doubt one of those things.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. 😎
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@Rogue11 said:
I haven't noticed any difference. Its been turbo tunneling for years no matter how many buffs killers get and nerfs survivors get. It remains the easiest way to win 90%+ of matches with no strategic thinking involved.
I was gonna say, business as usual then.
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000899#Comment_4000899
Check steamdb the game had between 80k and 120k from june to august, it's dropping hard and the next few months of hard tunneling meta aren't going to help
I suspect the hype for krasue chapter isn't that high all the good stuff is deleted, ironically new killer is S tier tunneler
He's right. Numbers drop and then a licensed chapter drops and they spike back up. It's what keeps DBD afloat.
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@Ryan489x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000516#Comment_4000516
Mine too its actually the first game soundtrack I ever bought I have 2 copies of it
Aw, that's really cool. I just completed my Extra Soldiers collection after 14 years.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
It depends on time of posting, I am objectively antagonizing people who dislike the changes, especially because literally speaking, killers have been MMR boosted for 4 years.
And that isnt to say that killers are bad, but if you want to win against people who are objectively better than you at the game, you need to use mechanics like tunnelling and slugging heavily. If every game consists of tunnelling and slugging, you're simply boosted.
Honestly, BHVR should've released the update as is with a hard MMR reset, but if they are going to take 3 more months to basically get a similar result, they would need to come with a soft MMR reset.I think I posted and it got deleted but I can't remember what I said. 😵
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000554#Comment_4000554
You are asking for a system that is easily abusable.
"oh I dont like this map, dc"
"oh i dont like this killer, dc"
"oh my hex got cleansed, dc"
As a P100 Trickster I know he's a killer that isnt generally liked. Does that mean I deserve to play against bots all the time? Its literally every second or third game I get a DC and it would be even worst without a penalty.
It's a rock and a hard place. If you face a majority of players that don't like playing against a Killer, the solution isn't to tell them they have to or to leave the game entirely. It isn't any more or less fair to tell the Killer player they're SOL. But that's a casualty of a system that prioritizes enjoyment and steering fatigue. I genuinely fail to see how it's worse than what we're currently dealing with, other than it gives all players more autonomy.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996241#Comment_3996241
This update is a neccesary evil that needs to happen. Numbers tweaked a bit, but ever since they cancelled it, the following things have happened:
1. Slugging has increased 3x
2. Tunnelling at 4-5 gens has been easily doubled
3. I've had certain killers basically abuse their ability to rush someone out, which I havent seen since anti-facecamp was introduced.
At this point, just release the update with reduced numbers.
"But killers do their job"
You know who else was just doing their job of surviving? Survivors. Yet, we have window blockers. We have a basekit slowdown if 2 survivors are on 1 gen. We have conspicious actions to cancel perks like DS and BT. We have exhaustion introduced as a generic status effect affecting exhaustion perks. We have hooks respawning within 30 seconds instead of 3 minutes, which is already a reduction because hooks never used to respawn.
All that, was just survivors doing their job of surviving too. All of those were neccesary evils that needed to be introduced for killers to have fun, most of those mechanics needed tweaks after implementation but they were implemented regardless because people were done.
Now a neccesary evil is introduced on killer side to ensure survivors having fun. Survivors are done with playing in this way. Yet not its being pushed back another 3 months just because killers dont want their toy taken away?100%. If 3 years of a more Killer-focused development cycle hasn't made the game enjoyable, then it's time to go back to the drawing board and figure out something better. I agree with the very vocal sentiment that the game shouldn't punish players for something they didn't do (very BAD timing given anti-go next, but y'know). I'm hoping that BHVR's intentions here are good and they won't let the system sit for any longer than it has to before trying again.
@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/455880/cant-wait-for-the-anti-tunnel
You're an indecent human because you want to win a video game? What the hell kinda logic is that?
Players are way too morality-driven in my opinion. My stance on going next is treated historically like an intensely political debate topic. 😵
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Submit a ticket and see. But I'm guessing it'll be a no.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000494#Comment_4000494
Because you are then ruining the game for the other 4 people who were expecting to play the game normally.
DCing should never be encourged. If youre not having fun, log off instead of "suffering" every game you play.
That argument makes no sense to me. It's a double-standard when there are so many elements of the game that ruin the experience for others that go unchecked. The only difference is that you are taking the steps to remove yourself versus feeling cornered by another player.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000509#Comment_4000509
They just need to change it so you get the adept and the challenge credit. I don't want to go from playing against a bad killer who was guaranteed to lose to an OP bot who somehow turns it into a win.
But if it's as dumb as the survivor bots have been lately, then sure, a bot is fine.
Knowing where the bots are, I'm sure they'd be dumb. But we'd have to see.
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Grats! Also nice taste with the FFVIII soundtrack. One of my favorites. 😎
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000490#Comment_4000490
I'm okay with that if survivors still end the match with an "escape" and gain the 7k bloodpoints
Tbh it doesn't trigger Adepts anymore and correct me if I'm wrong but escape challenges are affected as well. I'd rather play against a Killer bot.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000465#Comment_4000465
You said "I don't think they inherently favour one side overall" I think people just disagree it's not that deep, if I agree with you i'll upvote.. I often get 15 upvotes for one comment and -15 in the next
honestly I think they've been oddly biased in favor of killers since 2022, this whole sequence of events with: ghoul, clown, fog vials and anti tunnel PTB is the perfect example. They fix killer issues asap for the most part, they only take one side seriously, they just don't care unless popular killer main streamers start crying about something
This is why I said what I said in my earlier post. The forums might be more Survivor-heavy, though I still don't agree with that, but you see across most platforms that opinions are skewed. Favor changes with the wind. A lot of it is down to timing as well.
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@CorvidXCVIII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000474#Comment_4000474
Yeah, I'm just hesitant to attribute malice towards BHVR's decision making. I don't think they've ever made changes with the express interest in making one side, one killer, etc. miserable to play. Even Skull Merchant's nerfs I feel were more about removing an issue more than deliberately messing her player base around.
Are they perfect? God no. Are the changes they make always for the better? See last answer. That doesn't mean they hate people who play certain roles or characters though.
I think the malice is really only present in their PR. 😵 That's gotten better over time though, thankfully.
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@UndeddJester said:
I feel like Keys are decent for newer players and help a fair bit in SoloQ. Auras are never gonna be as valuable as toolboxes and medkits for highly experienced players, but they are functionally sound for casual players.
Maps are almost there, and in a similar boat that auras aren't ever gonna be valuable enough for highly experienced players, but their almost at a spot where they are good. They need: -
- More charges (I vote 8)
- The bug where the totem add on stops the WoO effect to be fixed. If totems are a concern with 8 charges, have this add-on half them.
- The gen reveal just part of the standard reveal for the user and the beam of light made something separate.
- The iri changed to not be killer reveal since that is keys territory. I vote for having it reveal the Maps aura while channeled, and show any revealed auras to teammates.
Medkits need their tiers made mean something, actually make the Altruism portion matter. Otherwise are fine.
Toolboxes need to have the brown worn tools removed (it has an active detriment). I would also merge the Engineer's and Mechanic's Toolbox into one. I'd also make Commodius worse at sabotaging since it is the best repair toolbox.
Flashlights are fine, though the brightness add-ons should have a purpose of some description, though not sure what. I think Flashlights only problem is they are hard countered by Lightborn. I think LB should be buffed to only prevent blind effects (splash, stun and lunge), not prevent the blind. This would make it so that blind perks (Champion on Lighta and Residual Manifest) can still have an effect.
Fog Vials are overnerfed. They need 2 charges more, or they need 1 charge and some extra utility. I vote for the latter and reusing the PTB notification block and HUD smoke effect to give Fog Vials some more meta use cases.
I'd love to see more effects not be hard countered in the game. They've already done this with Distortion. Flashlights are a great example as well. I was thinking just earlier actually that they really need to revisit how Oni operates with the Broken effect. For years I've been saying that No Mither is an unfair buff to his power and that's even more true now that there are more perks that leave you broken. Same with Plague deleting heals. I don't think there need to be hard nerfs, but there should be more flexibility with play.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I know this will sound odd but I was using the perk the other day. While I miss how it use to work, I still got some value out of when my survivors got 3 toolboxes knocked out of their hands. They had to go back and grab it lol
That's why it was still handy back in the day, especially with Key. Even in an SWF, you had to tell everyone where it dropped. And unless you were hyper coordinated like those people that chart the map like Battleship or unless you dropped it in a recognizable spot, it'd be a challenge.
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Listen… I've said it before and I'll say it again. Making DCs less punishing would be good for the game. If it's clear that players queue up and then suffer, why not give easier means to alleviating that suffering (without booting everyone out of the game) than enforcing that they stay because they signed an invisible contract to dedicate their all to each and every trial? It makes no sense (in my opinion).
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It's a start. Killer needs to be looked at from a psychological perspective, and I think this is part of that. But you also have to consider the ramifications of that as well. Feeling like the game is throwing the "I'm disappointed in you" message could also ramp up tunneling as a way of lashing out.