UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997366#Comment_3997366
balance aimed at “the majority” and vets should just watch? Or join the 2K-and-dip meta to keep lobbies cozy? Every PvP respects skill; DbD shouldn’t be the outlier.
That’s not how PvP works anywhere else. Why here?
In PvP you run into better players and you die.
Why should dbd be different?
Since when has any asymmetrical PVP been a normal PVP? They have to be balanced differently because they center around equity, not equality.
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I was excited to try the changes and I am taking a break. But moreso because the hatch challenge in this week's Rift quests is bogus and doesn't sound remotely fun at all.
@ChaosWam said:
This community I swear…
The changes aren't being scrapped, they're being delayed to be improved to avoid the problems they currently present in it's current form.
And this post is the survivor version of another post in a killer's PoV of the changes. Either side is too worried about having the edge over the other and nobody wants the game to be balanced and fun for BOTH sides.
Maybe, just maybe, not all survivors are out to abuse mechanics and wants the best for SoloQ, and not all killers are tunnelling/camping and still experiencing issues and blowback when following the new rules.
We all need to stop posting this toxic us VS them nonsense and start being constructive with each other, but I already know that's beyond our capability at this point.It was a very strong shift. It makes sense either way—one side feels permanently victimized and fears change, while the other is exhausted and feels like they were proven right when they didn't want to be. But as it stands, I still think it's too early to say what's going to happen given how BHVR has acted lately.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997306#Comment_3997306
Go next currently does this on live.
Why do they only selectively care about false positives?
Because going next and tunneling/slugging are viewed differently, both by the community and BHVR, and end up with very different consequences as a result. I see both having practical applications and reasons to exist, while not as necessary as they can seem in the moment. But I feel like that's a rare assessment.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997237#Comment_3997237
Its factual information that survivor is better, and its in the stats too for the most part. BHVR caters far too much to bad survivor players, and these changes would've been the mother load of unbalance. I have a 75%+ escape rate, thats not supposed to be happening according to BHVR's target killrate.
To be totally fair, this is a very disingenuous claim. If you are in the higher percentile, which if I'm not mistaken you have said you think you are, then you're understandably not going to be the target of systems designed to help the majority who aren't. You're playing a different game altogether in that case.
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@Starlesque said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997283#Comment_3997283
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997286#Comment_3997286
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R4J5OJPI26MX/image.png
From Google:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BBFY1ADAKLGT/screenshot-2025-09-05-at-6-44-07-e2-80-afpm.png
Seriously, where my TRYKS fans at? Y’all bringing the rain when I’m tryna throw a parade - mood killer much? We got Debbie Downers in the house! 🤣 Just being silly, it’s all good. Appreciate y’all’s perspective!
I never said I don't like Harley. But she's one of a kind. I think every character that has followed the blueprint lacks the same charm and ends up, like I said, "we have Harley Quinn at home". Less fun, more cringe.
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Tryks is giving "we have Harley Quinn at home" HARD. I understand that people like her, but she is such a lazy and uninteresting character trope. In my opinion.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997185#Comment_3997185
it addressed some of the issues but AFC was very necessary for insta down killers in particular. bubba, billy, myers with t3 99’d, huntress with iri head, clown with red head pony finger, etc would have still been very problematic at face camping since they could guarantee nobody could get the save.
The issue there though is that it only delays two Survivors going down/dying. The one Survivor on the hook isn't strong enough to reliably avoid it, which is what makes the system feel so pointless (in addition to proxy camping being unaffected). Had we not removed healthy hook grabs, AFC would have felt more substantial I think. Otherwise, it felt like something that was neat but didn't really do a whole lot overall.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997070#Comment_3997070
It's not that people find it "hard to understand" so much that they think strictly facecamping was not ever The Whole Problem and that proxy camping was (is) also problematic, or that Bubba standing at the top of basement stairs instead of at the bottom makes no practical difference and should still be punished. They know the changes address what they're supposed to address, the argument is that what they address isn't enough
I personally don't care because I'm at a point where I'm done with this game for a while, but that's the reasoning for the supposed gap in logic there
Not to mention that changes like AFC came after healthy hook grabs were removed, which addressed the problem fairly well as is.
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@Willish said:
I don't think they'll ever come tbh. It's Behaviour. How many times have they let us down in the past.
I would have agreed last year. This year, I'm not so sure. I do think they'll bring it back, but it's hard to say what it will look like. I'm getting the sense that they are actually trying to incorporate fairness back into the game, but it's a tossup on how far they'd be willing to go to get there. I also feel like the disaster of anti-go next and TWD chapter has them acting much more hesitant than before.
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@blkhat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990775#Comment_3990775
Now that you've seen it in action, do you feel the same way about your vote?
I don't play the PTB so I actually haven't, but I do read the feedback posted here. For now, I'll trust that the numbers were boosted for stress testing during the PTB and they'll be changed before they go live. I'll post more about it then.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990061#Comment_3990061
Good amount of mechanics?
To find a new target, killers literally only get a nerfed basekit BBQ, that survivors can easily dodge, and very often shows zero people even if the killer is spreading hooks.
And if basekit BBQ shows zero people, then it’s just too bad for the killer, because they need to wander around the map and hope they find someone new, instead of accidentally finding someone that’s considered a “tunnel” survivor.
Now, now, is it really fair to hold me to a post made pre-PTB a week ago while we're all seeing these changes in motion right now?
I wouldn't mind seeing stronger incentives to help the Killer navigate after a successful hook. Even a week ago, I was saying that Killer should be able to see how many hook states each Survivor has. Preferably with the anti-tunnel measures still in place.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996394#Comment_3996394
Sorry, but that's a projection so pure that Tuco is interested in selling it.
For each crying killer I had seen in these forums or the game, I had seen dozens of survivors that obviously hadn't played killer for more than 5 minutes claiming that even with all the basekit mechanics and indirect help survivors received over the years, Killers are the ones getting hand-held and that both the game and BHVR is Killer sided. To the point of defending cheating and exploiting bugs because "Killers OP".
One of my favorite "gameplay experiences as a Killer main" I had was that time a bully squad called me a baby killer, a slugger and desired for me to "not wake up in the morning next time I go to sleep" because I downed one of them, and the other 3, with flashlights and toolboxes, wanted to prevent me from hooking him at any cost, which resulted in all of them getting downed and hooked soon after. According to them, what I should have done is let them do the save and win.
But no, yeah, obviously the killer mains are the ones with the leper culture that take it all too emotionally and do not realize or care for the amount of advantages and hand-holding they have in the game. The survivor community has a strong grip on the realities of the game and in no way or form starts complaining and brigading everywhere just based on their subjective opinion.
And just curious, what are the "amount of busted things Killer has had over the years", exactly? The Eruption meta? In fact, where is our "anti-genrushing system" to prevent survivors from doing all gens without being able to kill one?
Oh, and by the way…
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y8XSOJZZ9JOZ/image.png
Can you show me your most used killer, please? Just so we have context of your point of view.
To be frank, none of that has anything to do with what I said.
Even with these current changes, a strong point of contention is that Survivor is being hand-held because they already have mechanics that make teamwork more functional (like the HUD) and that they have basekit mechanics that make the strongest Killer comebacks somewhat less viable though not enough to be strong counters. Not to get ina p*ssing contest over that, just saying that both sides are equally criticized. The narrative will always be SWF/gen-rushing vs camping/tunneling/slugging.
Likewise, communcation is one of those self-inflicted problems. It's an element of every PVP game ever and not only does DBD have an aggressive chat filter, there are a number of options to silence all communication with other players entirely. Though I will give you that—Killers are more likely to get salt.
The reality, in my experience, is that even when both sides are facing similar situations, Killer players are usually the most likely to take it personally. I've never seen Survivors do it to the same degree. For me, it has a lot less to do with "us vs. them" and is more of a psychological thing. It has me wondering what the draw is to each role.
Listen, I get that you wanna whip it out and slap it on the table, but that's a diversion tactic. It's no secret that DBD is a game of investment—whichever role you feel the most invested in is where your bias lies. For me, that's Survivor. For you, it might be Killer (I'm not going to assume that however). No amount of experience in either role is likely to change that. On top of that, if I had 5k hours on Killer and a 90% KR, would that make my opinion more valid? What if I had 100 hours and a 50% KR? It means nothing.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995997#Comment_3995997
Instahealing, instaflashlights, infinite loops, take the killer hostage, old DH, old MfT, overpowered perk combos not touched in years… No, yeah, no, killers had no reason to complain ever in the whole story of this game, and it has never been a survivor-sided power trip.
Come on, dude.
Not only does that ignore the amount of busted things Killer has had over the years in equal measure, it also ignores what I said. I said there is a self-imposed pity and borderline leper culture around Killer. Now that doesn't mean that the role is in a perfect spot or that it's a bed of roses every trial, but it does mean that there is a heavy emotional anchor that always needs to be considered when it comes to topics like these.
@SnakePVP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995997#Comment_3995997
Im confused what you mean here are you implying that only killer sided players have enclaved communities because their so fragile that they cant exist in a commingled space? Could it just be that they want to be involved in communities where discussion about gameplay is primarily from the perspective of the side they play in the game? Im not sure how this has convinced you that killers in those communities all suddenly think they are othered or something. Though it is a bit rich you talked about them feeling othered then wrote a whole post basically diminishing killer only players and their feedback from their perspective. Not sure how killer only feedback is so tainted that it shouldn't be as valued as you seemed to put it. Though maybe I misinterpreted your message here.
It could be, but I personally haven't seen that commonly enough to consider it too strongly. Mind you, I don't say these things lightly and they naturally don't apply to every individual player. I'm talking about the community as a whole based on what I've seen on every platform I've lurked/discussed the game on, so don't shoot the messenger. Someone else might have a completely different experience or perspective from me.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994041#Comment_3994041
My proof is is that if you search these forms and the steam forms and click on threads about game being unwinnable for Killers it's a 2000 plus our account with no Doubt an 85+ kill rate. You'll see a lot of threads about baby survivors complaining that killers are unbeatable. Hardly ever a thread for new killers struggling with the game. The killer role is solely difficult in high MMR this is widely accepted and understood. You see posts "they shouldn't be balancing the game around not having everyone working on generators" or "comms give 12+ perks for free" despite new players not using comms in that manner at all since they don't even have the game knowledge to.
You also see a narrative for the entire game's lifespan that Killers are the most pitiable and weakest group of players and that every entity, official or otherwise, is against them. You see entire communities split off into Killer-only groups because they're convinced that any pushback is evidence that they are othered. It takes the odds being objectively stacked in their favor to the point that their opponents are more likely to give up every trial than to play it out in order for the game to look balanced from their perspective.
All of this to say—the backlash is prominent and expected, but that doesn't mean that it's more valuable as a result. Let's see how the PTB plays out and go from there.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991135#Comment_3991135
And if they havent done anything? Eg a gen is done before you've even gotten a down?
The first 3 gens are typically safe to lose. They don't determine the outcome of the trial all that strongly.
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@tjt85 said:
The numbers are a lot more generous than I was expecting, tbh (on both sides).
I'm certainly not going to complain about getting Killer buffs for playing the way I more or less already play. A lot of the complaints have been around how "abuseable" these systems might be at the very top levels of the game. I feel like a lot of players have an expectation that BHVR is going to balance the game for the tiny 5% of players that eat, sleep and breathe DBD 24/7 and I'm sorry, but that's never going to happen. The vast majority of the DBD player base is casual.
On a side note, if the changes don't go through for the main mode, I think it would be great if they were added in their entirety to Chaos Shuffle to promote a more casual experience. The 20% gen regression would be especially welcome in a mode that doesn't guarantee you any gen defense perks and the anti-tunnel / anti-slug systems would allow Survivors to mitigate these unpopular strategies to a degree (these strats can be common in Chaos Shuffle, especially in the absence of any gen defense).
Totally agree on both points. For everyone saying that these changes will kill high level play, that's really apples and oranges. If anything they should be asking for the numbers to scale via MMR or something along those lines, not to punish the majority of players for not being cracked at the game.
Fingers crossed they don't back down, but this would also be very welcome in case they do. The modifiers very quickly end with the Killer camping/tunneling/slugging when things don't go their way, which makes the modes feel pointless. They really should feel more lax than they do.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994590#Comment_3994590
It's been 3 years of these same people having literally zero empathy for anyone except themselves in this game.
Similar massive changes over the years have been met with "git gud", "you're refusing to adapt", "just quit if you don't like it", or "you're just entitled".
Mostly from the same group of people currently melting down over this patch that now will affect then and their gameplay instead.
This is essentially how I feel. I'm not vindictive about it and I don't think the changes are incredibly extreme, but they are at least viable which says a lot. I also don't need to sit here and mourn Killer's ability to steamroll as efficiently given how bad Survivor gameplay has been for the last 3 years. Especially while we're getting blamed for these changes.
I will say however, that it is fueling my mindset that those attracted primarily to the Killer role are more delicate and have to be handled differently than Survivors.
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I will say if you play a lot during events and modifiers, it does boost you quite a bit without dailies in between. You can catch up with any Rift challenges during that time too. But I do agree that for a game targeted to an adult audience, the amount of leeway they give is pretty minimal. Most adults don't have the free time to no life the game nor the disposable income to buy the Rift outright (the $70+ I mean). It should be a lot more accessible.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993261#Comment_3993261
They do have an abandon feature for killers. I've seen it pop up in my longer games when people are hiding.
Game isn't over with no downs at 3 gens done though. Many killers have gotten no hooks in my survivor matches but then slugged everyone at end game.
But yeah, I'm all for easier DCing for everyone. If you wanna go, fly free. If still counts as a loss anyway.
Hard agree on the last part.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993088#Comment_3993088
i wouldn't be pissed if the hud didn't give you all the information that isn't specific location of survivors and on top of all the base hand holding stuff that's not even this upcoming patch
if people want to drool on themselves or are new they honestly shouldn't have a say at all when it comes to balance but the devs are actively destroying a role to auto carry noobs
yea i quit
😵
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993105#Comment_3993105
Fog Vials should have never seen the light of day, to be honest. They were a horrible concept that buffed the two most frustrating survivor playstyles: shift w and ratting.
Did they? I usually see them used to break up chase or to scatter from a gen. Then again, Shift-W is running to the farthest corner of the map and ratting is hiding in the farthest corner of the map as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993096#Comment_3993096
Lol. They're not going to nerf or scrap it before live. Do you realize how many man hours must have gone into this patch? They had to change dozens of perks, update the UI, add in new status effects, not to mention the systems themselves. This is one of those things that BHVR is absolutely going to be bullheaded about. There is very little chance they listen to the community on this one.
I don't think it'll be scrapped. Even if it's shelved, it'll come back again. But the chances of the numbers being far less extreme than people are anticipating—on either side of the argument—are still pretty high. We'd be remiss to ignore what happened most recently with both anti-go next (being a disaster and returning anyway) and Fog Vials (being nerfed due to backlash).
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992979#Comment_3992979
Survivor is the single most mind-numbingly boring and easy gameplay I've ever experienced. Mario Kart is more mechanically demanding.
That's not really fair to say if you prefer one side over the other, to be totally honest. Killer is boring to me, but that has no impact on whether it's engaging or takes skill for those who are much more heavily invested in the role than I am.
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@SpitefulHateful said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993072#Comment_3993072
So abuse is when something is used against BHVR's intentions, but also when they want something in but you don't think its good for the game.
Your definition of abuse seems to equate to 'personally dislike'.
Abuse is when a mechanic meant to create a fairer experience is exploitable for gaining an unfair advantage. I named examples when anti-tunnel perks were used for more agressive play. I have also plenty of examples for sabo squad whose only mission is to deny hooks and make the trial miserable. The planned changes allow for more exploits, especially for Killers that no longer bring BHVR money (i.e. forgotten and ignored) and lack the mobility to keep with gen repair speed (and players who don't grind DbD like they get paid for it).
I personally dislike that BHVR ignores the root problem and tries to appease one side only, if anything. But my thoughts on BHVR's competence aren't pleasant in general.
The irony here is that these changes are meant to address unbalanced catchup mechanics.
Given the history of patches with BHVR, we can assume it will do too much to address the problem or too little. Given how strong camping/tunneling/slugging is and how pervasive it's become, I feel like it's safe to say that it would take a lot more than this patch to truly do too much. I think more than anything, as is, it will make a noticeable dent. But there's still a chance it will do far too little by the time it goes live.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993074#Comment_3993074
well as a person who did that all that did was make me hate my fellow survivors more since reading a hud is apparently too difficult and is the actual problem with solo
Maybe it's just me but I rarely get too upset at my teammates unless they're very obviously being intentional with their decisions. I assume most of the time they're new to the game (which remember, even 500 hours can be considered new with all there is to learn) or they're on auto-pilot.
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@Raptorrotas said:
God i wish people would shame survivors for trying to escape like they do killers for trying to do their goal. Which is killing all 4 survivors, for the people who apparantly forgot.
Cant get how this hypocrisy is still going strong in year 10.
Is that not what happens whenever gen speeds or hatch is mentioned?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3993028#Comment_3993028
The game having such a divided structure is the problem. I almost wish you had to play a certain amount of each role, back and forth. Like one locks if you play it too much for too long. But instead of an unbiased and nuanced experience it would be sandbag city. This us vs them stuff is so unbearable though, and the emotions are absurdly high.
I'd rather them just increase gen times or something. If you want to devote your build to gens, cool, but most people don't. Chase and second chance builds will still reign supreme.
In my opinion rotating queues are vital to asymms. But most players aren't willing to do that.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992514#Comment_3992514
Yes, that is true. Looping back to the old Choy video, talking about the MMR ranges, the skill range is quite big in some cases, where you are essentially placed in a big pool of players, ranging from average to decent, and from decent to top-10 level.
(this point is mostly applicable to the survivor queue) - At first when you queue for a match, you will normally get matched against someone of approximately the average skill level of your group, so let's make this example:Survivor #1 has 700 hours played, is sitting at around an average of 40% escape rate, and their MMR is around 1100. So an average player.
Survivor #2 has 1500 hours played, is sitting at around an average escape rate of 48%, and their MMR is around the 1400-1500 range.
Survivor #3 has only 150 hours played, is sitting at around an average escape rate of 30%, and their MMR is around 800 points.
And lastly, survivor #4 has 6000 hours played, is escaping over 50% of the time, and has an MMR of 2000+
In this example, the averages of the group is added together, and the optimal range for a killer would be someone with 1500-2000 hours, a kill rate of 60-65% and at an MMR of around 1400 points.
This is all fine and good, until the killer decides to leave the lobby, causing a backfill to happen.
This is where everything can spiral out of control.
1. You get a killer that has around 200 hours played, has a kill-rate of 50% or less, and an MMR of 800 or less.
2. You get another average killer, with 600-800 hours played, a 55-60% kill-rate and an MMR of around 1100-1200 points.
3. You get matched against a comp killer, with 10,000+ hours played, an ungodly kill-rate and an MMR rating of 2100.That's another big issue as well. It's why I believe lobby dodging is as damaging to trials as going next, it just happens in the background so there's less concern about it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992622#Comment_3992622
And regardless—
even if BHVR handed me every tool to win faster or easier, that’s not the point. I’m not BHVR’s court jester sent in to entertain survivor stacks. I’m the Killer.It's a PvP game, you're not the only player there. BHVR has a right to set the rules as they see fit, and if the way you play breaks the fundamental enjoyment of the game, they have every reason to implement changes.
The game only works so long as it's engaging. If it no longer is, it must change.
Dammit, you beat me to it lmao
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992567#Comment_3992567
And when people just sit on gens… uwhm… and what then? I’m allowed to down them, slug them again, then go look for the last one? And then they just get up for free and it keeps going? without the other person has a bit to give away his position to get the slugged one can crawl and recover and is back up? then the same again. : down and repeat. down and repeat. Whup whup, amazing design.
and even if it happen that both hide..
I, as killer, am supposed to abandon in a match I’ve already won? Ew. Sense? Logic? Hello?? Anyone home?
I mean.
that situation already exists right now. Not too bad. But as soon as I catch one..
It’s not “if,” it’s the slug that often gives you the last survivor. That’s literally how you secure the cleanup.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992572#Comment_3992572
ehw. .. uhm..… which apparently means waiting for some random RNG black hole to spawn and then dice-rolling who stumbles on it first… in a match I already won? Ye, in what world does that make sense? Sure as hell not in mine :/
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992572#Comment_3992572
Gonna be real: a slug brings way more pressure. A hard tunnel brings way more pressure.
Chasing a fresh unhook? The team feels zero pressure. No one bodyblocks, no one risks a save, everybody just leans back into M1 simulator. They know there’s no threat, so they adapt: less healing, less resetting, more greed. Why bother helping when there’s no chance the killer actually snowballs off a mistake?And that’s the core issue — remove the fear of a hard tunnel and survivors take dumb risks way earlier and way more often. sit injured on gens, swarm first chase with all their toys. If nothing gets punished, everything gets tried.
or on the other side..:
NThe flashy BP enjoyer knows the killer puts themselves at a disadvantage the second they commit to sweating him out. So he goes super aggro on first down — because what’s the downside? If there’s no real snowball threat, he flips the coin every time.
Exactly like in my Nurse clip, page 1: first chase at 5 gens and they’re all there. One with a flashy, one with flashbang, one with sabo. Two running Background Player, three rocking Unbreakable. They only failed to build momentum because it was Nurse. With almost any other killer, that exact situation turns into hard snowball → hard tunnel. That’s just how pressure works.
So yeah, when the killer fresh-hook chases, the team gets a free pass to play super aggressiv. (even more as tey already do) N. When slugging and tunneling actually exist as consequences, the team has to respect chases: rotate, trade smart, reset, think. Otherwise it’s just four people speedrunning greed with training wheels or have THEIR fun time with the killer because they have to fear less consequences
If mistakes don’t carry hard consequences, survivors will gladly make more of them. That’s not “depth,” that’s taking the pressure valve off
I'm sorry but there's nothing that can be done about that level of entitlement. It's a PVP game—it can't revolve entirely around one role without any consequences.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992552#Comment_3992552
Survivors don’t just abandon the match the second they gotta have a chance to stand back up, at least not in the lobbies I get. That whole “they’ll insta-quit if they go down again” is pure survivor cope.
It activates for both sides. Both down for Survivor, 10 minutes without gen progress for Killer.
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It's the least wild place I've discussed the game so far, to be totally honest.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992441#Comment_3992441
uhm… bside that..
In a 2v1 situation, hatch is about to become a hot topic again once EGC kicks in. Before that, survivors still get their anti-slug, so the real question is: how much ping-pong between the last survivors are we gonna see? Like… how many times do killers have to pick them up, let them stand, smack them back down, let them crawl up again, and REPEAT… and REPEAT… just to stop a free hatch escape?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3557953800
"nurse u doog.. report .. REPORT!" .. xD
We already see in 2v8 how people hate being yo-yo’d back onto the floor over and over until everyone’s finally down long enough to actually secure the hatch denial. It’s gonna be spicy out there after this update, that’s for sure
gonna be wild :D
Abandon will kick in for both sides, so I don't think it will ultimately matter too much.
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@Brimp said:
Because there is MMR but the game does prioritize queue time after a while so sometimes it will just randomly back fill you into a lobby regardless of MMR range.
This. Plus it's not super tight as far as I'm aware. It's there but not very noticeable often times.
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It used to be more split down the middle but the last 3 years have definitely kept Killer in the spotlight. Having said that though, things still get changed despite their disapproval. I think it has less to do with favoritism and more with the KR and matchmaking.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992392#Comment_3992392
I did read the patch notes, but thanks for the condescending reply anyway.
I don’t want to have to pick and choose what survivors I can chase and down. You know what happens sometimes? Sometimes after I hook someone, I happen to stumble upon that same survivor I last hooked working on a gen or healing. With the new rules now I have to ignore that survivor and pretend they don’t exist or else I get punished. I used to be able to chase whoever I wanted, but I guess that’s not allowed anymore because it isn’t “fair”.
I have a feeling you'll find that "can't" will be a strong word.
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That would defeat the purpose of Conspicuous Actions (which honestly are a little too heavy-handed as is).
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992311#Comment_3992311
Lol. That's not a basekit buff. That's them deactivating an OP perk so they don't have to actually nerf it. Killers lose the ability to use Nowhere to Hide in the Endgame, too. Is that a survivor buff?
Dude's over here acting like DS deactivating in endgame is the same as rewarding players for losing.
It is basekit. Endurance off hook, AFC, and these new anti-slug and anti-tunnel changes all deactivate too. The perks also shut off like you said, of course.
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Both great suggestions. 👍️
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992413#Comment_3992413
Yeah I feel autodefeat immeditely now. Yet according to these killer mains survivor is soooo easy and handholdy. Tell that to my 10-death streaks lol.
No kidding. I guess it's rare but I had a roughly 22% escape rate in 2v8 this cycle which feels unheard of. Thankfully I got all of the challenges pretty easily, but it would be nice to feel like I'm showing up for trials too.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991943#Comment_3991943
I just got out of a match like that. The killer ignored everyone else except two people and used an aura read build to keep locating them before they could heal. I tried to intervene and got slugged. Once those two were dead he slugged me for the 4k.
Also had a match with a Billy who got two hookings the whole match. He was absolutely horrible. Got a 4k from slugging. We all died in end game collapse.
These changes will fix neither of these garbage playstyles. The cheaps will keep cheating. There's no way around it.
These sound exactly like my trials. Rarely we'll pull through, but you get so used to steamrolls that it's hard to keep giving 100% or expecting anything decent. I'm not expecting much after AFC, but I'm optimistic that this will make the game at least a little more fun if done right.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992327#Comment_3992327
I've got pro-killer takes too, they just never come up because no one talks about any killer issue outside of 'sometimes I lose'.
That's where I am too. I don't really enjoy Killer and I don't play it seriously when I do queue up, but I do pay attention and listen to concerns. It's just one of those things where it's hard for me to really hone in on all of those concerns when I see the bigger picture and I see what needs more attention.
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@mooasis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992328#Comment_3992328
ah yeah i definitely agree hook indicators should be in the game already. people who desperately want to tunnel are going to be tracking hooks on every player anyway
Exactly.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992316#Comment_3992316
I absolutely think they've overlooked a lot of perks and powers because BHVR is, frankly, very bad at their jobs.
@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992316#Comment_3992316
They have a notoriously bad track record for overlooking individual interactions when making sweeping changes, let alone ones that affect the core gameplay loop this drastically. Its easy to assume they will do everything right, but its crucial for them to allow themselves to be corrected when they don't. Considering the concern is generally around their lack of foresight, that basically means people are going to form their own conclusions and need to be corrected from them when they experience the changes personally. And unfortunately when people have preconceptions but only experience sweeping changes from one side, they tend to be more willing to ignore the concerns of "the other side" than they are to objectively assess them. We saw this firsthand during the overbrine meta, so many survivor players should remember the justifications they saw at the time.
This update is very likely going to fuel Us vs Them far more than it needed to, both in discourse and personal perceptions themselves.
Trust me, I don't have a ton of faith in them. But I really highly doubt they'd overlook something like Tenacity, which wasn't mentioned, or Killers like Sadako or Myers. Not that I'm claiming to know what they'll do, but those are very huge oversights for a system they seem to have spent some time working out. It's not like individual perk interactions where it's easy to miss variables because there's damn near a million of them now.
And that's true. All of it's gonna depend on how the PTB plays out.
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@mooasis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992312#Comment_3992312
after this patch you can never "accidentally" tunnel unless youre so new you genuinely arent paying attention to anything. after each hook youll see every survivor on the map that has less hooks, all of which will give you the same information after being caught + youre told on the hud who was hooked last. obviously tunnelling will still sometimes happen, but NEVER accidentally.
(after rereading your comment im not sure if youre trying to say basically the same point that i am or not)It is roughly the same thing, but I don't think more info would hurt. Just in case the proposed UI indicator isn't enough.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992276#Comment_3992276
That's because you've been around here for 830 posts. Pulsar's been around way longer and used to be much more sympathetic to killers when they had far more pressing issues.
I was gonna post something similar. Not to glaze him too hard, but Pulsar is someone I've always enjoyed seeing post because he's knowledgeable and about as unbiased as one can be with DBD.
(You too btw but I don't know that I'd call you unbiased 😝)
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992241#Comment_3992241
This is exactly why these details are important to include if they don't want a doom focused reaction. How perks like plot twist and soul guard interact with this mechanic would create a wide variety in whether they will (or won't) have exploitable interactions, which is something that happens to both sides all the time. People who want to defend the mechanic will not think about things like that, while people who are concerned with it will, but people who want to take advantage of those oversights will do both. Leaving these interactions to speculation while admitting that many perks on both sides will be adjusted to suit the overall changes tells us next to nothing, and leaves people to make their own assumptions, then time to hunker down on them by the time the rest of the info is released.
People both defending and criticizing such sweeping changes with so many missing details are both correct, it is a matter of perspective with what we have been provided so far and what we both assume and extrapolate from that info. I only hope that both sides are able to break up early preconceptions and be honest about what they end up with when we have it to test, instead of looking for things to simply validate said preconceptions.
Perks are a variable I assume they left out until the PTB, just because it's a lot of details to work in. Same with Killer powers. I don't see them neglecting all of that in the long run. I agree that being transparent upfront would be better to do on BHVR's part, but I also think the end result would be roughly the same.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992239#Comment_3992239
I was told by a Community Manager in the past “We don’t want to incentive tunneling by killers being able to see individual hook states”
Which of course now after this update that won’t be an issue.@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992239#Comment_3992239
It won’t let me edit my post on the phone. Anywho, yeah you’re right. It will get the point across pretty much in the same way plus with BBQ being basekit that’s basically the game telling you, “hey! Chase one of them!”
To be honest, it's not like Killers were going to let up on tunneling anyway. Even if this patch goes through, it might not change a whole lot. Personally I think it's better to potentially help those that don't mean to but end up doing it on accident.
I agree. It'd be a good follow-up if this all works out.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991042#Comment_3991042
Only thing I would change is that that 90 seconds needs to be killer inflected time in dying state. It should not count if its time that survivor themselves caused like using Plot Twist.
Plot Twist is a unique case as far as I know. It's like a pseudo dying state (for instance, it doesn't affect the Abandon feature).
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Sort of unrelated, but point 2 makes me wonder why they didn't add the ability to see how many hooks each Survivor has on Killer. It'd be a good QOL update for Killers that don't tunnel while also allowing those who do to be aware of the line. Although I guess seeing who you hooked last kind of gets the same point across.