SnakePVP
SnakePVP
About
- Username
- SnakePVP
- Joined
- Visits
- 51
- Last Active
Comments
-
I think a non high movement killer would be fine. I would even take a new m1 killer, but unless they have some ability that helps them cross the map. It's going to come out and all killers are going to say it's ass after getting gen rushed. If they make them slow movement then they need a standout ability also. As without proposing nerfs their is a reason so many killers end up drifting to high movement killers and I hope they find a fix for that also.
-
I think people in this game are always going to have some bias toward either killer or survivor. It’s pretty rare to find someone who’s truly 50/50. The real issue in these discussions is that killer mains and survivor mains often try to speak objectively about the other side without acknowledging how their own playstyle bias affects their perspective. Most arguments on this forum seem to boil down to a few recurring points:
Solo-queue players rightly saying their experience sucks.
Killer mains jumping in to complain about SWF and gen rushing.
SWF players using solo queue struggles and tunneling to deflect any proposed nerfs to SWF.
That dynamic then feeds into the survivor vs killer mindset among killer mains. I think some of the political-style comparisons people make are a bit much, unless the argument is that SWFs intentionally use the solo-queue vs. killer debate to distract from their overall strength which would be funny, but I don’t think there’s some coordinated SWF lobby here. More realistically, if you’re a 1k, 5k, or 8k+ hour player, you’ve probably played long enough to know enough people that you can SWF whenever you want. Because of that, this forum is likely to have a higher proportion of active SWF players, alongside newer players who come here to vent after getting 4k slugged by a Bubba.
-
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
As the title suggests, how would the game balance have turned out if perks scaled based on team size for survivor, or relative strength as a killer?
So let's say that you take a perk like Sprint Burst, and subtract 5% Haste for each survivor in your party (if the party size is 3 or more) and a 10% increase if you play solo, or make Pain Res only regress a gen by 15% for a killer like Blight or Ghoul, and 30% for a weaker killer like Trapper or Pig.Either way, a small decrease in strength for 3 or 4-man SWF's, a slight buff for soloQ and a way to even the playing field among the killers.
I think scaling would be a interesting idea. They would have to work to ensure that it doesnt make perks too complicated though. As perks having 30 different stats per killer would be too much, but I dthink having perks tiers of say 2 or 3 based on killer style wouldn't be too bad.
-
@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996386#Comment_3996386
go play the PTB, adjust to the changes. It is not that deep. The issue is the psychology of tunnelers. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TUNNEL TO WIN. Catering to a small but very loud portion of comp kids, is not what is in the best interest of the game. There is a reason why 2v8 is so popular….its casual and both sides enjoy the match, which cannot be said about 1v4 tunneling. Tunneling is less about strategy and more about exploiting a low-effort path to victory, and the psychology behind it reflects that. Many killers tunnel because it gives them a sense of control and efficiency, but in reality it removes the need for skillful map pressure, chase variety, or resource management. Others do it out of spite, targeting survivors who looped them or acted in ways they perceived as disrespectful, which turns the match into a personal vendetta rather than a competitive game. Tunneling also stems from fear of losing; some killers panic when generators go quickly and latch onto one survivor just to secure a kill, even if it ruins the match for everyone else. Psychologically, it is a shortcut that reduces cognitive demand and responsibility: focusing on one target avoids the challenge of managing multiple survivors. Many justify it by saying “the game allows it, so it’s fair,” but this entitlement ignores the larger balance and longevity of the game. From the survivor perspective, tunneling feels like targeted harassment, leading to frustration, rage-quits, and disengagement, which hurts both sides in the long run. This is why developers work to curb tunneling; it undermines fairness, enjoyment, and the overall health of Dead by Daylight.
Yes, SWF groups can abuse things; there is always a way to abuse any new mechanic. But the problem with the “SWF” argument is that most of them aren’t competitive, and honestly, they aren’t even that skilled. The only time I play survivor is for Rift challenges or when friends invite me, and my SWF is usually just messing around and playing badly. For the majority, SWF just means people hopping on after work or school to relax with friends. The real problem comes from the hyper-competitive mindset players on both sides, not the average group. Basing balance decisions on the rare experiences of a tiny percentage of the player base is a mistake.
And if you look at the devs’ choices, it’s clear they don’t want Dead by Daylight to be an esport. They’ve never pushed for a ranked competitive mode, and for good reason. Competitive games are often swamped with toxicity and cheating from people desperate to prove they’re “the best.” The devs are aiming for casual enjoyment, not a competitive scene.
Its very simple. Give yourself a chance to adapt and try the changes. The devs have stated multiple times they will adjust things accordingly even killer buffs, which should be an exciting consequence for killers. Just think of it as paving the way for better balance and future killer buffs.
I'm not pro tunneling I just think these changes affect to much that they do more than just act as a protection mechanism against tunneling. I pointed out the mode issue as the divide in the community is clear to see. If the devs decided they want the game to be only a party game thats fine, but it will certainly result in some players leaving. Im just saying they keep dancing around this issue and it has created the current divide. I agree you dont have to tunnel to win, but I think you are downplaying the effect of these changes quite a bit. If you have one slightly long early chase, or miss a hook chance, ect your are going to a 2-3 gen situation in most games before getting to 6 hooks especially on some low movement killers if you truly try to play fair and spread hooks. This is without playing a bully squad or a squad thay rats to extend the 6 hook protection. This results in a worse gameplay experience and the only feedback I see is killers either need to deal or ironically enough play full sweat high movement characters and treat every game as a super competitive game where they rush down kills regardless of the penalties. Lastly I think its a bit unfair to basically say every killer should conform to your style of play and find enjoyment with it or just quit. I mean their is a different in being a mega tunneler and playing this game in with a competitive mindset want to win against the survivors that is far different then the fun house style experience it looks like your trying to provide. I also think that type of play doesn't really keep killer mains here full time as it seems like your doing more of a service of experience style mode messing with streamers and such. Lastly I think trusting in the Devs will be hard as I think current trust in Devs for a lot of killers is quite low right now. I mean gen rushing was a major complaint from many killers about their enjoyment of the game and they slap a gen regression perk nerf ontop of all these changes. What a terrible way to build that bridge of trust.
-
@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3996355#Comment_3996355
this community is very toxic. I blame it on the wave of hyper-competitive players. Everything is about what is meta, everything has to be an "S-tier", and have their entire emotional well-being placed on winning a match. Its being a slave to ego is how I look at it. They take the laughter and joy out of video games simply because they feel entitled to win. its obnoxious and i disdain this mentality, they're the type of people to leave their shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot because "its not my job, they get paid to do it, not me". I just roll my eyes and continue being happier than them lol.
Anyway, the goal of the killer is not to let survivors have fun. That is the goal of the devs. They have to ensure that both sides are happy and the community is moving into a balanced and mutually enjoyable experience to maintain player base. Sometimes, a consequence of that is one of the sides taking a hit for the overall health of the game. You can still kill, be scary, torment them….but the devs decided (and rightfully so), that enough is enough and survivors are people too. Because the Killer is the "power role" those who main them feel entitled to absolute domination. They are not actually a supernatural killer, they're just a dude in a gaming chair playing with dudes in other gaming chairs. They forget that the game depends on BOTH sides having a fun and playable match. Anti-Tunneling does not rob the killer of the power role or its purpose. If anything it adds more purpose by pushing them from the repetition of "only focus one guy" and makes them focus on map control, chase skill, and decision-making. Survivors still have plenty of ways to lose, they're just hard nerfing the cheesiest and least skillful method of doing that.
I have spent my entire DBD career (since 2017) not ever tunneling and do perfectly fine, above average I would say. Its not the end of the world or DBD, just the end of an unhealthy playstyle.
I mean you stated that you dont play to win and just play causally for fun. So of course the changes do not affect your enjoyment as your never seriously playing seriously to win and as you noted your in low MMR so you dont deal with high MMR SWF.. The key problem that creates so much of the toxicity you talk about is that the Devs refuse to split the game into a ranked competitive queue and a causal queue effectively forcing the two communities of players wanting different types of experiences to intermingled at everyone's detriment. You speak about both sides a lot but for people playing to win the lose lose scenarios you talk about where bad players caught out just have to be chased and slugged if your lucky if they were past hook or on two hook before 6. That used tk be a hook now a killer either has to ignore them or just get a slug. In addition to how SWF can abuse these changes or have two players go rat forcing the killer to play locker simulator to track them down as they extend the 6 hook protection period, or how gen rushing was still a prominent complaint from killers and their enjoyment and they added a gen regression perk nerf ontop of all these changes.
-
@Paribean said:
The only good thing to come out of this ptb is the new chapter (minus ghost notes), besides that from the map changes to the myers rework everything is terrbile and I don´t understand how this even made from the drawing board.
Listen im a D1 hater of the changes, but even I think something had to be done for solos. I think the changes are too heavy handed with the gen regression perks nerf. I think their should be more consideration of how these changes affect the feel of the game from a low movement killer perspective and how some of the punishments create situations where you have to ignore a player if they were last hook or on 2 hook before 6 even if they made a bad play and got caught out. Effectively rewarding them for bad play while the killer gets punished. In addition, I think some modifications need to be done such as reducing the hook count to 4 or maybe 5 with if they reduce some of the gen regression perk nerfs or they change basekit pop to a non-kick version of regression or just remove killers losing the buff if they hit a player or break something. As if im a slow killer trying to get to at gen and I run into a survivor caught out of place Im basically in a lose lose situation once again. Once things like this are addressed I think these changes will be manageable. If they are never addressed I think it will push more killers to meta builds on meta characters. That why if it goes 100% live i think killers should get a penalty free abandon when gates open so they at least do not have to deal with t-bagging survivors that won't leave or if the gate could act like a blackhole after a survivor sits at the door for say more than 100 seconds and sucks them out that would also be fine.
-
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3995913#Comment_3995913
I believe the changes cant go live especialy all of them because there isnt much killer which can go with that and some survivor mains claiming its skill issue are the same that claim ds should be basekit, something will hit the live but not all and I hope especialy the tunneling punishment in faster gen repair speed or blockining gens and regression its nonsence when there is huge buff to survivor side with unhooks and it makes even killers with crazy mobility and lethality like blight,ghoul or billy not being able to tunnel right after unhook because theres so many things survivor has in basekit as protection plus perks which would kill like half of playable kilers in higher mmr amd on which isnt healty change at all because survivors still want to meet those killers which would be unplayable if all these changes would go live but its hard to believe they even get this or can imagine consequences if this would hit live like its now in curent ptb.
Yeah im starting to convince myself that the devs went this heavy handed because they knew killers were going to complain and this allows them to "adjust" down the the level of changes they actually want to test in the game when it goes live.
-
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994048#Comment_3994048
You also see a narrative for the entire game's lifespan that Killers are the most pitiable and weakest group of players and that every entity, official or otherwise, is against them. You see entire communities split off into Killer-only groups because they're convinced that any pushback is evidence that they are othered. It takes the odds being objectively stacked in their favor to the point that their opponents are more likely to give up every trial than to play it out in order for the game to look balanced from their perspective.
All of this to say—the backlash is prominent and expected, but that doesn't mean that it's more valuable as a result. Let's see how the PTB plays out and go from there.
Im confused what you mean here are you implying that only killer sided players have enclaved communities because their so fragile that they cant exist in a commingled space? Could it just be that they want to be involved in communities where discussion about gameplay is primarily from the perspective of the side they play in the game? Im not sure how this has convinced you that killers in those communities all suddenly think they are othered or something. Though it is a bit rich you talked about them feeling othered then wrote a whole post basically diminishing killer only players and their feedback from their perspective. Not sure how killer only feedback is so tainted that it shouldn't be as valued as you seemed to put it. Though maybe I misinterpreted your message here.
-
@TT_nottoxic222 said:
I know alot of pc user won’t agree with this , but as a console user I feel it’s so unfair that only pc users have access to this PTB update …. Obviously it’s for a reason I’ve played for years and understand this. But some do not have access or means to a pc or they simply prefer console use. I feel releasing this PTB would be more beneficial to yous (the devs) because the gameplay is slightly different for console users. I’m not sure if a PTB would be accessible to console users but it should!
console users have to wait to use the new chapter- (new killer/survior and updates/ reworks) and some would love to give feedback about their PTB experience like myself!this may seem like an odd statement/ opinion, however I feel that it’s valid!!
Appreciate if anyone understood!
:)))))Yeah sadly the devs really cant do much about this. Changes on consoles are far more formal and do not really provide the best environment for a testing/development environment where the devs most likely want to have the ability to make changes on the fly.
-
@KingOfGhost said:
Now before you say that the average killer don't tunnel or dlug or YOU have no problem with that, i will like to remind you that the average killer will get punished from this change want it or not .
The way they are made is to force you into this game play even you don't really used them. And survivors with any experienced will abuse them
I think the problem here as seen in this thread is their is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a average player is and if this game is a party game or a competitive game. Honestly so much would be solved if they would just add a ranked mode and a casual mode. As many people assume as seen here if you play casually that cant mean your also playing to win. This is still a 1v4 game where killers obviously want to win their just not going out of their way to sweat by camping hooks and tunneling out survivors at 5 gens. Because they know that negatively affects the enjoyment of the player their doing it to. Though it seems many of those same players do not seem very concerned with those very same killers enjoyment in the game.
-
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994811#Comment_3994811
You forget chases arent only time consuming thing for killer, walking to hook and getting across the map takes some time too and not every killer can ghoul around. Pain res is only 4 uses for each survivor fresh hook so it should be higher like 15%-20% gen regression anything under it should work like old pain res for each scorge hook regression.
Right these changes take so much time from the killer in the early and middle game when trying to play fair. Paried with the gen regression perks nerfs its turning into a endgame simulator. As if you have even a slightly bad early game chase you basically have to make a comeback in the end game as that the only place killers still have some player agency left.
-
@Dokta_Carter said:
Was told I was tunneling, but according to the system I wasn't, according to my hooks I wasn't, so im just curious.
According to the player base, tunneling is going after the last hooked survivor with the intention of putting them back on the hook/removing them from the game no?
IIm Just so confused? Not angry or upset just... wha?
Tunneling at least the most accepted form is where you solely target someone out of the game, but what is considered Tunneling tends to be expanded. Now its Tunneling also if you double hook the same survivor in a row. Its also Tunneling if you say hook survivor a, then b, then a again to some survivors rather then spreading out your hooks. Generally some survivors are going to call you even remotely focusing them in the game Tunneling, but to my understanding its really only Tunneling if you solely focus them out of the game or hook them in a row. Anything else is just survivors crying. Though some killers rightly upset with the changes are going out of their way to tunnel each game as a form of protest so maybe the survivor was just on edge or something.
-
I think they just made these changes trying to force break all the survivor complaints without considering killer enjoyment and the the way these forced play mechanics affect the feel of the game on the killer side. I think aggressive tunneling and slugging was a problem I just feel like their changes are too heavy handed leading to killers feeling like their arbitrarily getting punished for just playing the game and making the right decisions at the right time.
-
I think if they reduce the hooks from 6 to 4 the changes would be far more acceptable. I've said it in other posts, but I think the changes will push more killers off low movement killers to the higher movement killers to deal with the added challenge and pressure to do well in the early game. Especially with the nerfs to gen regression perks. So I'm curious to see if this forces more killers into the same meta builds on the same meta characters.
-
I think Sable, Feng Min, Meg, and Claudette should be one tier higher considering I tend to always have one of those four in my game.
-
@OmegaXII said:
I thought they gave Killers a basekit pop to compensate for Slug/Tunnel change, but then on the other hand they killed all Gen Regression Perks? Like why?
Why are you nerfing killer's best strategy PLUS killer's best build in the SAME PATCH?
Although personally I never bring any slowdown perks (I love chilling), but seriously I don't see killers being playable at high MMR if this goes through…
Ive said it on other threads, but I think with these changes the dev did not consider low tier killers enjoyment whatsoever. All these perk nerfs ontop of the force play changes and survivor buffs is insane and the only message we get is "this just testing guys we can change the numbers still". So many killers I think just have low levels of trust that all this won't just go live as is and push killers to basically the same meta builds on the same killers since those will be the only viable options since the devs nerf everything else into the ground.
-
Yeah I feel like 6 hooks it too much and just creates too many situations where you feel like your forced to track down specific rats or avoid displaying 2 hooks not to punish yourself. Making the early game even harder with arbitrary punishments you can accidently find yourself in if you miscount or track things wrong. Not even to talk about teams that openly try to bait the kill.
-
Yeah they are nice. I feel like orginal chapters also dont trap them into certain abilities they have to do to fit the theme a licensed killer already has developed. Though they did make springtrap pretty cool and original while sticking to the already developed theme so I guess that isn't always a problem.
-
@Kliveran20 said:
-first you must clarify correctly what is your point when making a post
and about your post, most of dead by daylight developers only test the changes playing internally so they never get to experience a real matchmaking in solo Q or the mischief of random players, so if they implement something is based on the test they made internally or just make the changes in the game and never try them out before releasing patches, this is why most perks or killers are extremely disbalance in the value they have in game, also the recent changes buffing survivors made tunneling and slugging a necesite for killers to even get one kill so 5 seconds could make a chase of 1 minute in to a 3 minute chase being the equivalent of 3/5 gens chase, but behavior get almost no complains from killer sides since most of the tunneling/slugging "problems" is they own fault for his game mechanics from 2016 that always incentivise focusing survivors and just now it is an "issue" for people complaining too much
Yeah no consideration for killer enjoyment. We're just ment to get good no need to consider why certain killers felt like they need to do said action or how these force play changes make the feel of the game weird.
-
@RichieGonzo said:
These changes cannot go live
- When a Survivor dies to a hook action or Mori before 6 total hook states, the remaining Survivors gain a
25%repair speed bonus. - When a Survivor that was previously hooked is Killed or Sacrificed, the Killer loses the ability to block, damage, or regress generators by any means.
There are balance problems with this of course. Like how 6 total hook states is way too much and should be 4 and how nothing in this game is so powerful as to warrant disabling all generator regression. That isn't the point.
Even if BHVR finds a way to statistically balance this over the entire killer roster, I do not want this direction for the killer role and I find many people tend to agree. Introducing guidelines for the killer to play by is exactly what killed VHS. It makes every game feel the same, and the role less fun and more monotonous.
The proper way to encourage killers to spread hooks is by rewarding them for doing so. But, you must make sure these rewards are viable across the whole cast. Something which the current iteration does not accomplish as not many killers can even afford to go and kick gens anymore, and the haste is pretty meaningless.
I've seen so many content creators for this game saying that with the right tweaks these changes could be good. From a pure balance perspective, sure. From a health standpoint, absolutely not. No one wants to play by this made up rulebook. VHS died because no one was playing killer. Why do you think that is? BHVR is repeating the exact mistake that one of their now dead competitors made.
As I've said in a few other threads. I think the devs did not consider killer enjoyment whatsoever with these changes and how it creates weird situations where you have to avoid 2 hook survivors caught out of place purely because you dont want to arbitrarily punish yourself. I agree this will just force killers to all play the most meta method possible on the most meta killers to take advantage of these "buffs".
- When a Survivor dies to a hook action or Mori before 6 total hook states, the remaining Survivors gain a
-
Its because the devs don't care about killer enjoyment were just ment to carry water for the survivors. Honestly I have no idea why they won't let use abandon after the gates are open. Why must we have to deal with the annoyance of chasing out t-bagging survivors, but let's give survivors an abandon everytime they are mildly inconvenienced.
-
@dgbug said:
I genuinely do not think that the people at BHVR play killer. Until I see a video of the developers queueing into public matches and playing full on killer matches, I'm just going to assume that BHVR doesn't really know or care what the killer experience is like.
I'd LOVE to be wrong about this.
As I've said in other threads I think they did these changes just trying to force break all survivor complaints and did not consider low movement killer enjoyment whatsoever, but hey find comfort in theor message that they can still adjust the numbers.
-
@Wiccamanplays said:
Sometimes tunnelling happens because the Killer plays very aggressively and hounds someone out from the start. Other times it is because individual Survivors or the Survivor team as a whole makes mistakes– not healing promptly, not taking chase, not completing side objectives, bad positioning etc– and facilitates tunnelling. There's also the kind of tunnelling where partway through the game the Killer recognises that their win condition hinges on getting a given Survivor out of the Trial. The first kind sucks, and I think is the correct target for system changes. However, with the new PTB rules, if a Survivor is tunnelled out in any kind of context, the Killer is potentially penalised as a result. Doing your job well and feeling like you're being punished for it feels bad. Add the fact that the buffs for non-consecutive hooking feel more like a compensation than a reward, and are of limited use to many Killers, and it's not a surprise that many players who play Killer are upset at the proposed changes.
Whether or not this is balanced is less of an issue (because the answer is complex and subject to so many variables) so much as whether or not this is fair. If a Survivor led a Killer on a really long chase, and then as a result all gens got blocked for a 20 seconds because they hadn't hooked anyone yet, that would feel bad to the Survivors, not because of balance but because of fairness. The principal motivation behind 'competitive' games is that excellence should be rewarded and mistakes punished. Ultimately this is going to come down to whether or not BHVR and the DBD community see the game as a competitive game or not. If it's competitive, then I don't think the anti-tunnelling changes should go through as is, though there's still scope for trying to make not tunnelling a more viable strategy for Killers who struggle to do otherwise, possibly by changing more perks to disable when a Survivor is sacrificed. If it's not competitive, then implementing mulligans and 'play nice' rules like the anti-tunnelling system makes more sense, but there will also need to be an assessment of a lot of very strong Survivor perks and items that, when combined with the new changes, provide comparable shortcuts to tunnelling.See that's clearly where your wrong. This is a party game not a competitive game where your supposed to either carry water for the survivors enjoyment or play s rank movement heros and sweat for a 4k. No in-between.
-
@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994560#Comment_3994560
Non mobility killers cannot efficiently pressure under the current system because it takes them too long to complete a chase unless the surv makes a mistake.
This has been what I have been saying. Its like the devs did not consider killer enjoyment on slow movement killers. I hope the devs are honest about adjusting the numbers or this will be something.
-
I think their is little trust right now in the Devs and the killers are seeing major changes. Force play, anti gen perks nerfs, and increased pallets. Going to be a fun time on many killers.
-
@tyantlmumagjiaonuha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3994120#Comment_3994120
Why couldn't they have anticipated scenarios in which survivors would abuse the mechanics, even without having users try them out on the PTB?
Also, I was shocked that the aura visibility bonus of the hook spread didn't take into account the M1 killer at all. Even if you can see a survivor 40m away, they'll either distance themselves or be hidden before you can reach them. Didn't they think of something like that?
I think they just didn't consider low tier killer enjoyment when these changes come into play and they just wanted to force break all the complaints survivors had.
-
All this and they nerf anti gen perks. I fear for the enjoyment on low tier killers and how much these changes will push people to basically only play the fast movement based ones even with the slight reduction in buffs they get. As they now have to "run" to each gen to apply these kicks while having to track surviors around the map to ensure they properly can spread all the hooks. Kicks that are surely going to be required since gen rushing is really the only thing survivors have to do. Going to be really fun basically avoiding survivors because you know their on 2 hook and I'm sure people will rat to extend the 6 hook protection they get.
-
@Fluffyxox said:
Failing to get 4K means being tbagged at gate. Survivors will stand in the gate for the entire EGC just to do so. This behavior is one of the primary reasons referenced when "killer anxiety" is talked about. Being shamed for not "winning". If you think the 4K expectation is because its easy, and that killers are complacent with "being op", then you have less than 10 hours as killer.
Yes thats why these changes are going to be an issue they are going to be abused by SWF and low rank killers will suffer. They should just let killers abandon if the gates open or if thats too much after a certain timer. No thought about killer enjoyment in the changes whatsoever even if weak links did need something to give them a chance.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991339#Comment_3991339
I don't really care about survivor or killer enjoyment necessarily, nor am I going to ascribe any particular narrative about what BHVR thinks about killer or survivor players. I can understand where the sentiment comes from, but it's just more us vs them slop to me. And as a side note, I find it really funny when certain content creators call out other content creators for "causing" the devs (as if the devs don't have autonomy) to make changes to appease them/their audience/their narrative and then proceed to push their own narrative about the devs as though it's fact, which just causes THEIR audience to parrot their biased opinions.
I just don't think whoever was responsible for the anti-tunnel changes especially (and to a lesser degree the anti-slug) has any sense about how this is going to negatively impact player incentives at a base level and create all sorts of edge cases (and thus more work in the future when these edge cases inevitably become a problem and they have to go in and change things in an arbitrary, unreadable way AGAIN) and potentially not even solve the problem they set out to solve, which seems to be "aggressive tunneling/slugging by high tier killers". Like…why can't we just directly address the problems with those high tier killers…you don't even have to neuter their powers if you're already willing to make exceptions for them anyway…
There's more madness being put out here than Libra in Nightreign. I feel like the devs have completely lost the plot.
I honestly think if they just nerfed higher rank killers and had perk do things differently for different killers base of movement and abilities it would make so many other strategies viable it it wouldn't force killers down to such same styles of play. They could even make some perks not work on certain killers and so on. I feel like that would bring a lot to the table where these current changes wouldn't seem like such a bad time for lower rank killer players.
-
They cant have all these changes and encourage rat behavior against killers. At some point it seems the play style has shifted from primary stealthily around to more chase and loop focused high tension gameplay.
-
@MechWarrior3 said:
If 3 gens pop on your first chase that’s a skill issue. That has nothing to do with the Anti Tunnel feature.
You would be tunneling because you misplayed. That’s not the survivors fault.
Its only a skill issue on the killer side when they have to us strategies to catch back up to gen rushers, but if the survivors have a weak link we need force play changes, basekits, and second change perks.
-
@RepossessedTV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991107#Comment_3991107
and making the killer role as annoying and as restrictive as possible will not make killers quit?
We're ment to carry water for survivors. I don't know why they seemed to make all these forced play changes without factoring in why low rank killers use these strategies to come back with all these gen rushers with second chance perks in the game. Sure I get their need to be better protections for solo enjoyment and killers taking to much advantage of a weak link, but all this does is put more ways SWF can abuse these mechanics while forcing killers to keep track of more things so we dont arbitrarily punish ourselves.
-
@[Deleted User] said:
The more I think about this update and the more I hear other takes (especially edge cases I haven't thought about), the less I like it. Well, the less I like the actual changes. I like laughing at them though.
It's absurd that we're at the point where we're doing this huge, needlessly complex thing with the game instead of trying something simple like giving lower tier killers better base regression or any variation on that idea that's actually easy to get data on and doesn't just inadverdently screw over the lower tiers and barely affect the higher, thus encouraging people to just only play higher tiers more. Especially when we're more than happy to include basekit exceptions within this complex mess.
What are we even doing anymore…
Yeah I think the issue with these changes is that they did not consider killer enjoyment whatsoever and just tried to forced break all the biggest complaints from survivors without considering while low rank killers might have to take advantage of some of these killer strategies to get back into the game. Especially against coordinated SWF that can gen rush while wasting a lot of low rank killers time that do not have the high speed movement most S ranks have to apply pressure on large maps. I can only see these changes bringing more abuse and arbitrary ways for killers to punish themselves. Forcing us to keep track of more things.
-
Yes these changes will push everyone to play s rank killers. If you try to play low ranks you have to change your mindset and realize this isn't a competitive game, but a fun party game and killers will just have to semi carry water for survivors enjoyment. These changes just add more ways for killers to arbitrarily punish themselves and more things we have to keep track of. In addition, the survivors will of course abuse all these once they get a chance and it will all be fair game no rulebook needed. It seems forced play with token buffs is all were going to get.
-
@90bubbel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991317#Comment_3991317
ok remove one hook then, its still not tunneling and im still getting punished. hell what do i do if any of the survivors are doing a stealth build?
This is the real problem all these changes assume survivors are not going to abuse them which isn't going to be the case. We're just going to have to spend time chasing down rats to not arbitrary punish ourselves.
-
Yeah this is what I have been saying. Its only unfair if survivors are forced to take perks to counter killer play rather than all their second chances. At this point it feels like killers are just suppose to carry water for the survivors enjoyment. While they continue to add more and more killers have to keep track of to not arbitrary punish themselves. Got to protect the weak link I get that, but what about killer enjoyment. Why cant we see hook counts if they want us to focus so more time spreading hooks. I feel like this is going to be so abused by squads that either take advantage of these changes or even bait hooks to get the buff. While killers will probably get some token buffs to make us feel better about this forced play we must do in the early game avoiding obvious targets, Not using abilities, and searching out rats hiding to avoid 6 hooks.
-
@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991279#Comment_3991279
People fully sadly overlooked the fact Ryan put at end of each anti tunnel and slug changes a slight dev note we are going to see perk re-adjustment for both killer and survivor in this area.
I think we just have to wait and see because if fog vial got extreme treatment because people on forums and streamers complained less than this then we are just bound to take over as community voice and guide the changes.
Two things worry me only and which is that killer side of mains that dont see this as a good thing aka freeing up 2 to 3 perk slots for them so they can run other perks for their builds because many many people always say Pop is a must and BBQ Is like a mid perk that can come in handy especially againts swfs that like to spread out all across map and bait for chases and force your attention on people nearby and not survs on gens.
The other side is survivors demanding killer changes to get nerfed on the other side.
Soo same stuff but worse scale will happen what happened to fog vials aka we can expect some stuff to not even hit PTB or worst case scenario get removed within 1 week of play testing.
Pop and BBQ will give me an insane equal footing due to the perks i personally run and i also run michael as my main sooo we will see
I think many people have little trust and faith in the devs at this point. Some most likely think the basekit pop is going to be some token buff like 5% me somewhat included. I worry all these let's wait for the numbers guys will be disappointed.
-
This list is only for sweat s rank killers trying to win in this party game. Your thinking about it all wrong. This is like a haunted house your ment to follow all the rules and provide enjoyment not try and be competitive. It was unfair to force survivors to being perks to counter killer play.
-
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990884#Comment_3990884
They know why people feel forced to tunnel. This is a post from a dev a couple years back.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZB84HVGYEBIW/1000010377.jpg
Right but this only really applies to killers. Theirs no other play style, but 6 hooking now as god forbid people had to bring perks to counter killer play. That would force them to elevate their play style. Honestly that just reeks of an excuse of why they were unable to provide any incentive to killers to go with the play style they obviously want and now essentially have to force.
-
You thinking about this all wrong. You just need to rethink what a killer is in the game. This is a fun party game not a competitive game. Killers are ment to provide a enjoying game. The little struggles we have to go through are just part of the game. Why should survivors have to bring perks to counter types of play that would mean they couldn't run all the second chance perks.
-
You either play a s rank movement killer, sweat to win with little enjoyment, or you be a good killer and follow all the rules even with a M1 killer and maybe you'll get 15 seconds of haste after each hook. Sure you will get t-bagged at the door but at least you can end each game knowing you provided great enjoyment to the survivors. You just need to rp like your a npc in a haunted house and get enjoyment like that. Its not a competitive pvp game, but a fun party game.
-
Its only unfair if survivor are forced to bring perks to counter play. Killers just need to only play S rank killers and bring gen regression perks. Honestly survivors need something else to do other than gens. As at this point it seems like the game will incentives gen rush perks since survivors get basically all the other perks they need basekit anyway and killers can't really touch them after 2 hooks before they get 6 anyway.
-
@TimberGoingDown said:
If you think this gen kick is going to be more than 5-10%, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Yeah I think all these "let's wait for the numbers" guys are going to be a little disappointed as you just know killers are going to get some token buff that will not be enough to reward all these forced play changes.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990865#Comment_3990865
Hand holding?Yes
All these changes just make it easier for the weakest link to stay in the gameThe idea that as killer you can win just by matching yourself to the weakest of four players is a form of handholding. But you can still do it and it will still benefit you.
SWF to bait hooks to try to trigger the buffs so they can gen rushHow much do you think the gen buff will be? It would probably have to be around 100% to make this a viable strategy.
Knowing BHVR it will be a relatively small buff that will make the loss of a teammate not as devastating, but still a massive blow.
But none of these changes really address the issue of why many killers feel they are forced to tunnel to win a game. If you play a weaker killer and try to play fair often you find yourself 2 gens down by your first 2 hook. Thus, the pressure to get someone out of the game comes into play with all the gen rushing in this game. I dont feel that this minor buffs for killer which I think will only be for 5 or 10 seconds will even out the force play these changes will bring. Thus I think it will force many killers to play S rank movement killers so they can get enough pressure in the early game not to worry about 6 hooks.
-
Bro its only unfair to have to bring perks to counter play when your a survivor. You just need to play only S rank killers so you can fit all the regression perks and still be able to apply pressure against all the gaint maps that will surely be coming next with all these dash killers their going to have to make.
-
Thats the thing this is a party game. Its important to keep survivors happier since most new players start as a survivor. Which is fine, but my problem with these changes is that they do not address why killers felt the need to tunnel. Only giving us little tokens so we will carry water for the survivors enjoyment and keep everything fair and by their rulebook. While SWF can use every dirty annoying trick in the book to drive killers enjoyment down. I'm sure it will be great when we're forced to watch more and more people t-bag at the door when we play low rank killers and try to make a "fair" experience.
-
Yeah these changes will force everyone to play S rank killers. We're suppose to all be casual killers carrying water for the enjoyment of survivors.
-
Thats what I have been saying none of these changes address the issues that force killers to tunnel in the first place. These changes will just force more killers to play s ranked killers. I've said it in another thread but it's like DBD wants killers to just carry water for the survivors enjoyment. We're just npcs in the haunted house party game they want to provide.
-
Hand holding? All these changes just make it easier for the weakest link to stay in the game and for SWF to bait hooks to try to trigger the buffs so they can gen rush. I feel like this will only push people to S Rank killers. It seems killers are just ment to carry water for the survivors enjoyment. Making sure each one is fairly hooked and avoiding obvious ones that now will effectively be immortal before 6 hooks. We're just npc in the haunted house party game DBD wants to provide.
-
It kinda feels like these changes are made so killers can provide a fun experience for survivors, but without any regard to the experience of killers that don't play S rank killers. At this point I feel like these changes will just push all killers to sweat more to deal with all the nerfs if they don't want to just carry water for the survivors game.