UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990419#Comment_3990419
Oh I fully expect them to pull a 180. Just look at how they are pretending they fixed the issues with ghoul or how they essentially removed fog vials after a week (while trying to encourage chests being viable of course). The devs have a terrible record when it comes to actually fixing issues.
The upside is that with incredibly low expectations, anything halfway decent will feel like a million bucks. These changes still have me skeptical to say the least, but I also feel pretty excited to try them out. If they stay true enough to these patch notes, that is.
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@Nobody_TM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990392#Comment_3990392
Yeah you're right, there could be no other explanation.
Glad you agree. 😎
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We don't know how other perks will interact with gens yet. I assume you'll still be able to block them. And you only activate anti-gen regression by actively tunneling (again, there's a loophole with purposely dying on hook/being left behind—which ironically the 3% might've helped with but I digress—but I assume that'll be looked at as well before live). In practice, I think tunneling will still very much be a thing. It just won't guarantee a steamroll quite as early, which is good.
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@Nobody_TM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990360#Comment_3990360
Well I mean 6.1.0 was the only time in DBD's history where killer was definitively the real power role of the game so it's really not suprising why you'd hate it.
I wouldn't say the only time. But it was excessively in the Killers' favor, to the point that it actively harmed the game. If it didn't, we wouldn't be where we are now with this patch.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990347#Comment_3990347
Chase also just isn't my favorite. I don't run any chase perks. I'm also a gen jockey, and I like being sneaky and stealthy. I like looking for hex totems. Objectives are more interesting to me. I wish there were more things to do. I don't really enjoy running in a circle endlessly.
Same, same. 😔 That's one of the reasons No Mither is in my top 5. It's also what's made the last 3 years so painful.
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It's a little cathartic if I'm being completely honest.
I remember when 6.1.0 dropped and Killers were able to run very oppressive slowdown builds that required no interaction from them while standing in front of hook and being able to recover fast enough after a successful attack to grab any Survivor off of hook. It was literally impossible to swap without Desperate Measures or another Survivor, which is why I started running it to begin with. Basekit BT evaporated into nothing before it was buffed, what, a week later? Steamrolls and going next skyrocketed overnight, with BHVR saying it was an acceptable state for the game to be in and any concern about that being met with "you're just mad that your precious Dead Hard is gone".
Meanwhile, this change is actually much healthier for the game and seems to benefit both sides overall. All it does is add more autonomy to Survivor in dire situations, while still removing a bit at the same time via body blocks. Conspicuous actions are still a thing. Endgame presence is still incredibly lacking for Survivor. It's just making tunneling and slugging less viable than before. And you'd think it's like Survivor discovered the launch codes against Killer.
It tells me pretty much everything I already know.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990319#Comment_3990319
I've never really improved by being attacked again as soon as I'm unhooked and downed before I can even get to a safe spot for looping. It's not like chases are ending now, they're being spread out.
The birth of the "shift-W" meta seems to imply that was most players. More sweat-oriented players do take more to eating a ton of crap until they best the cheesiest tactics, and I'm always thankful when I'm matched with them against the Killers that employ it the most while I play gen jockey, but the majority are definitely struggling.
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@HuskyDogLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989948#Comment_3989948
I just checked it out and the mini games look dumb. I'd probably DC if the game put that in front of me.
Personally I enjoyed doing something that contributed to the match instead of tabbing out like I do in DBD. But the general consensus was that players didn't love it.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990318#Comment_3990318
I was speaking to the basekit effects given to Killers.
I believe they are assuming that these effects will replace, or substitute, for perks.
They will not. They could be impactful, but they are not going to be basekit Pop or Corrupt or PWYF.
The only one that I think is safe bet is BBQ-basekit. Even then, the perk has to justify it's existence by doing something significantly better or different than the effect.
With all the perk changes in mind, it's gonna have to be comparable to basekit BT. Weaker than anything you can bring, but not totally useless. Unless they decide to make the basekit strong and then buff the perks to be stronger, but that's not a very safe bet.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990235#Comment_3990235
They will not be as good as you think they will be, I hate to burst your bubble.
What was the average again? Like 48%?
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@FabledSpider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990106#Comment_3990106
you can’t tell me the game was pretty balanced as it was, you could make valid arguments as to whether it was killer sided or survivor sided, this has by far been a massive buff to the survivors. My sister (a survivor main) even agrees either my brother, my friend and I that this update is survivor sided.
Well if your sister thinks so, then that changes everything.
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There are a good amount of mechanics proposed to help you find a different Survivor to hook and keep track of who was previously hooked to avoid that. You only get locked out of regressing gens if you hard tunnel the same Survivor in spite of those mechanics. Which means that you are being held accountable for deliberately forcing someone out of the trial.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990025#Comment_3990025
If this is what im picking up from devs its their vision of making it as you say fun for everybody even at high mmr since you will technically kinda have to really really min max everything when baseline bbq comes in play here.
This will be a full total modern dbd here for all killers even m1, people saying m1 killers will be fully killed here i say no because the unique hook buffs especially the first HOOK will already give them haste in start and bbq right?
And it carries on and progresses while you keep up the proper way of playing
This technically helps killers like trapper, pig, hag and many other that players refuse playing at high mmr lobbies.
5% haste for a good period of time will be helpful and BBQ ping on first hook ever so slightly to pin point if there is 2 surv working on that gen and then u go for them instead 1 or u go for 1 and let 2 work on gens and such.
Many plays possible here but im worried the players will complain like they did for fog vials without proper testing with the plays possible
It's going to be very unpopular, guaranteed. But again, I'm HOPING they're as adamant as they were with 6.1.0 to not go changing every aspect of it until it has time to settle in. Because I do actually see this potentially working out. There's more of a give and take than there was during that attempt. But we'll see.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989984#Comment_3989984
From my understanding perks such as OTR, DELI, and second chances perks are getting fully nutrilized right?
Then technically if this system plays out well and it rewards proper play as intended and nullifies second chance perks this will technically be as close as it is to a 50/50.
But only if second chance perks get adjusted to the whole existing unhooking benefits and effects.
In short this will help killers and survivors play the game right not sure whats the fuss about it being one sided.
That's what I'm hoping for as well. All that I'm really seeing proposed is that they're giving more ways for everyone to have fun and doing more to cut cheese out of the game. My only real concern is that the slight adjustments that are needed will become an all out nerf and we'll just get a very watered down version of what's being proposed.
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Death to Survivor stealth followed by death to Killer stealth. 👼
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989989#Comment_3989989
They're also handing out a free aura read that works similar to BBQ & Chili - I find it unlikely they'll frequently be unable to find another survivor. Stealth or being able to otherwise hide is facing a pretty strong nerf in this patch.
Aside from that though, intent doesn't really matter - it isn't less frustrating for the survivor if they didn't mean it maliciously.
Also a very good point. If accidental tunneling is so prevalent, then the game should have mechanics in place to help prevent that.
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Let this be the stress test for Killer that Survivor had 3 years ago. If you're right, more Killers will leave and they'll be forced to change things. At least at that point, we can definitively state that the game has to favor Killer by default or they will leave and kill the game and we can finally stop claiming the game babies Survivor.
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@NonToxThicc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3987833#Comment_3987833
It could have like a 2 week grace period where you can't perhaps.
That's true. But after that period, it could still be an issue. Their go next prevention was in part to address something like another Skull Merchant fiasco, which this system would only bring back. Personally I think the game has been in such a bad state that punishing players for not wanting to go against certain Killers is silly, but I'm trying to view this from BHVR's perspective and what they'd likely be willing or unwilling to do.
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989225#Comment_3989225
I just find it easier to escape from 2v8 in soloQ than from 1v4 in soloQ, and I mostly play DbD alone (two of my friends have stopped playing). In 1v4, the game is over if at least 3 survivors are down. In 2v8, there are still 7 other survivors who can prevent a loss. And as I said before: They doubled every pallet and every tile in 2v8, plus 8 survivors have to repair 8 gens instead of 10. What have they given to killers besides Enforcer (aura reading), Shadow (undetectable), Brute (pretty useless) and Fearmonger (movement speed)?
Easy—duos. That is the strong suit of 2v8 and it will only get stronger as they add more Killers.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989435#Comment_3989435
The DFS furniture limited time sale has been running for over a decade now 🤣🤣🤣
Here too with Harbor Freight lmao
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989869#Comment_3989869
Tunneling one out right off the bat has nothing to do with making a match last longer and everything to do with drastically swinging the balance of a match to the killer's favor. No one tunnels to extend a match - they tunnel to win.
Both are true. Very few Killers force the 3v1 early not to get the 4k, but it's the 3v1 that gives them more time to achieve the 4k comfortably.
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I feel like Killer Klowns did a good job with it. They made it so when you die, you spectate and play mini games to feed the remaining Survivors items that they can use. Some were very helpful while others were not.
The only issue there being that you were forced to spectate because of the revival mechanic instead of filtering back into the queue so a significant chunk of players would just DC instead.
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I don't mean this to sound petty, but after the last 3 years I think it's fine that Killer is forced to play in Survivor's favor for at least one patch. Who knows if these changes are going to stick or not. But I would like to at least see if the game feels better as a result, what happens with kill rates, etc.
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As far as I know, it's the .PAK format. Everything needs to be decompiled and recompiled. At least that's how the mods worked.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989407#Comment_3989407
The video was not just about how Hook times being buffed added 80sec of extra time to do gens (which kind of invalidated the gen time increase), heal or whatever but that was not the only point made.
But this is exactly what's so out of touch. How on earth do you get 80 extra seconds of gen time? Every extra second a survivor's left on the hook is -less- gen progress, not more. It's more pressure on the survivors, too. It's bizarre to think of this as some overpowered survivor tool when it's only beneficial if the killer is camping. In other cases, it's in the survivors' best interests to rescue as soon as reasonably possible, to get more hands on gens.
Outside of that, the only salient points it made is that Franklin's got nerfed (which, imo, is relatively minor) and that Conviction is too strong. Jumping straight to 'survivor secretly OP' is nonsense.
Patrolling gens and going after the weakest Survivors in chase is always the strongest strat when we steamroll. Not that tunneling a Survivor off hook and slugging everyone who comes to help isn't just as effective either. But I agree that a lot of this is disingenuous. Because the cheesiest strats only work 90% of the time and not 100%, it's an issue and Survivor needs to foot the bill.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989424#Comment_3989424
What does FOMO mean? (I never understood this term)
Fear Of Missing Out. It's what flash sales and limited time events encourage. When people think the event is shorter, they jump in and engage harder before they know it's lasting longer.
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FOMO probably.
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I've never cared for the idea of exclusives. Especially for something as passive as earning Prestige or grinding the Rift. Both of those are very public as well and not necessarily tied to anything super memorable. Without a trading system, status items feel pretty hollow as well. I think every cosmetic should be available after a certain time frame, with the exclusivity being limited to the time before that.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989193#Comment_3989193
Who is "we". There seem to be a big amount of people here stating the opposite. Maybe you, and the others you are describing, just lucky with their queue?
Not that kind of "we".
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2v8 was supposed to be the training ground for Killer AI so bots could be added to custom games. Nothing on that front in ages though. Is it scrapped? Maybe.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989118#Comment_3989118
It's not as simple as that. @Foggyguy does have a good point here.
Queue times have, as far as I know, never been this horrible in 2v8. According to your statement, you would think that those would be worst when the game mode released, as it was when the option was the freshest for every player.
It's not fresh anymore. It's blatantly obvious that survivors don't want to play 2v8. Now this has multiple reasons obviously with no new classes being one of them.
It is undeniably though, that a killer combo that feels incredibly out of place and has proven to be a bad idea is one reason as well.
It's a game. If people don't want to play because it isn't fun for them, a sentiment I can wholeheartedly understand in regard to facing Legion + oni (or legion + a variety of killers), they will simply not engage in that game mode. They will either not play the game mode or not play the game at all, looking for something else that pays more respect to their time.
Adding Legion this early into the game mode was simply put a mistake.
Sadly, the sentiment these days seems to be that as soon as you queue up for a trial, you're married to it. But fun should be taken into account or else we end up in this situation.
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989128#Comment_3989128
But as you say there's multiple reasons. And there's been no major increase for us since legions introduction. We can't remember (or seem to find apparently) which iteration they were added but as the wait time stays the same, it seems to us it's legion themselves isn't doing a major job scaring survivors away.
The Resident Evil crossover the iteration before the last. They were added because of the HUNK Legendary.
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I do love the addition of Blast Mine because it feels closer to the original version of the perk and I loved running it so much. But I agree that it's more of a novelty than anything. It doesn't change the trial in any meaningful way.
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No offense, but we've been there, done that. You'd want to believe it to be true, but incentivizing anti-tunnel isn't strong enough to stop it. Historically the best combo to fight it was stronger second chance perks on Survivor and old BBQ like @GoodBoyKaru mentioned. You essentially have to introduce a mechanic that makes it so weak that it only makes sense in specific scenarios (like a true comeback), introduce something as broken for Survivor so it's much more of a give-and-take, or make spreading hooks more fun than the opposite (making it more attractive is nice, but if it doesn't feel good it won't work as easily).
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@HexPectoPatronum said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989106#Comment_3989106
I overdramatized a bit to make a point. Of course, they're killable. But considering the number of pallets and tiles (they've literally doubled every pallet and tile on the maps - every possible pallet spawn has a pallet) and the fact, that survivors "only" have to repair 8 gens instead of 10 (everything has been doubled except the gens), the Escapist thing is just the icing on the cake. 2v8 has already been pretty survivor sided (I escape a lot more than in 1v4), so the survivors didn't need another huge "buff".
You should be escaping more by design. But that doesn't mean it's Survivor-sided just because it's closer to a 50/50. In my trials, I've been escaping less than 1v4 ironically. ~4 escapes across 18 trials, with only 2 of those being a real close match that felt engaging.
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thanks for flagging this. The team is aware of this and looking into it.
To confirm in the meantime, this challenge can still be completed by equipping a Very Rare item and Visceral add-on and then escaping the Trial.
While you're here, please look into the Jane tome challenge that forces you to unlock hatch as well. It is still technically possible, but the hatch nerf has made it a nightmare to get for years now.
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I don't know if it's the problem plaguing the game, but it is a large barrier of entry for new players. Powers and perks are way too difficult to catch up on. It's like playing an MMO at times. Your solution would be a cool game mode idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about it in the main game.
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I think these sound really fun. 👍️
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I think knowing how to apologize and to give compensation is great. It shows humility on their part. But it's a multi-faceted issue.
In my opinion, there's still a lot of push-pull. On one hand, I see an effort on BHVR's part to improve their relationship with their audience. Less antagonistic remarks our way, less "my way or the highway" attitudes, more accountability, etc. I notice less banned accounts here on average for instance, even though there's still way too many for my liking. Does a more positive attitude always land with players? No. But it takes time and consistent effort to win someone back after years of bad behavior.
On the other hand, that aforementioned bad behavior hasn't really fizzled out. It's still a consistent problem that players feel "heard" but not listened to, BHVR still insists that they know best to a fault like TWD stream proved, the game is still suffering in several different areas, etc. Apologies for those recurring issues mean very little, if not nothing at all.
I think in order to see real, genuine change, BHVR has to keep this more positive, accountable attitude and maintain it while minimizing their more negative habits.
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inb4 Ivy for Skull Merchant or Sable 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮
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Who talked about Twins recently to make everyone care about them?
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989042#Comment_3989042
So infuriating. You see I'm doing the glyph. Just let me do it. You'd think its about to give me Sprint Burst or something.
I will admit it was nice when they'd down me and realize what they did and let me break free to do it again. But that only happened once or twice lmao
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@WolfePhD said:
I appreciate that you asked this question, but I have to acknowledge how tough this conversation is to tackle. We simply cannot determine why the player was upset. Were they upset for a DBD reason or a non-DBD reason? Did they have a bad day? Or are there frustrating gameplay elements that signal opportunities for improvement?
DBD can be the equivalent of listening to sad songs while you're upset. The nature of the game itself is pretty negative so it's attractive when you're feeling negative and not treating yourself the best.
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Survivors are very much killable in my trials (and that's an understatement), regardless of what they bring. But also like @WolfePhD mentioned, the mode could use more Survivor appeal to help queue times. As long as Killers are able to duo, I don't see a lot that would really make them not want to queue up at all.
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@cogsturning said:
I've seen two or three of these recently. I also love seeing someone intect with a glyph. I will stand there and appreciate.
tfw you finally find your red/green glyph and the Killer downs you while you work on it
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I'm not gonna lie, Gans' credit in the trailer made me laugh. It's giving vanity flick on his part. The movie itself might be fine. I will say that it reminds me more of Revelation but I didn't hate Revelation at all.
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I'm gonna be honest—I don't really get either side of the argument here.
Maybe it's just because I'm a solo Survivor, but 1v4 is incredibly boring. The only time it feels thrilling is when the stars align perfectly. Otherwise, it's a slog where I feel like an NPC and get very flaccid returns for any time invested. I'm not sure where I'm supposed to express any form of skill when steamrolls are the most common outcome.
On the flip side, 2v8 started out very promising to me. It felt like a genuinely equitable mode where the outcomes were random. It felt like 8k, 8e, and 4k/4e were all equally as likely. But now? I don't see how it's casual. Steamrolls are as common in my games as 1v4 and the same old strats on Killer are the norm again. It's still more balanced than 1v4 yes, but I don't think it's staying that way for long.
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Instahook makes them fair in my opinion. They're mostly the Survivor equivalent of slowdowns.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988626#Comment_3988626
Yeah, well, when the game can't handle any creativity you start to do the same thing over and over again.
purr
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988579#Comment_3988579
What does prestige level have to do with getting ques in a game?
@PleaseRewind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988641#Comment_3988641
I believe they are talking about when prestige used to show in the lobby. Killers (sometimes survivors) would dodge based on that.
This. I couldn't avoid leveling my favorite characters at times and I knew it'd be a matter of time until I hit a high enough prestige level that I'd start getting lobby dodged by Killers. Thankfully 15-20 seemed to be the magic number before they were finally hidden.
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@UndeddJester said:
I can only soeak for myself, but to offer a perspectivw od someonw who doesn't like "dash slop", in my case it's a general disdain for fast repositioning abilities and rapid movememt in games. I like to think it does have a little more nuance...
I've been playing games for over 30 years of many genres, and typically speaking for vast majority of games, high mobility or fast repositioning characters tend to be strong in any game...
The ability to reposition quickly allows for sudden/suprising attacks that catch people off guard and are more difficult to react to. Not only that, but these abilities also work well for defence and/or to undo mistakes, because any time they get caught, their reposition ability can undo a mistake.
This typically results in these characters being afforded a much more aggressive play style that can circumvent a number of the more tactile and traditional game elements, usually only limited by mechanical difficulty of execution... and where this becomes frustrating, is these characters can get away with not thinking about areas of the game that other characters have to... usually becoming very popular because they can ignore those elements, but also don't lose those elements either, where really good players can exploit both. This results in a tendency to jack up the potential of a given role and power creep the game, and over time creates an environment where every character has to be a reposition character, or get left behind.
To give some actual examples rather than vague statements: -
- League of Legends has now an abundance of dash based champions, and it became so prevalent that characters who were once considered dash characters (like Ahri), no longer stood out anymore cause dashes were so prevalent... so to fix this, they doubled the amount of dashes had from 3, to an effect that could reach 8 or 9 dashes. Nowadays seeing a character without a repositioning tool is so rare, that the only way to compensate such character is to make them a raid boss with bonkers damage.
- Killing Floor ended up with the Berserker getting buffed to move at 30% speed and breaking the game by being able to eternal lead all enemies behind him that could never catch and kill him, as getting the team killed then luring and soloing the wave as it followed you was easier. This was never nerfed and everything got buffed to match this in the name of "fun", making the game much easier and boring for long term players as it removed all team work elements the game had,
- Marvel Rivals have continuous problems with mobile dive/hit and run characters like Spiderman and Black Panther have to keep getting constantly nerfed despite underperformed because of the way they force the opposing team to completely switch how they play... they don't fight with the team working with each other abilities, they hang out of the fight and instead try 100-0 healers when they are distracted, constantly playimg a game of hit and run/cat and mouse. If ever they are allowed to be strong, they would fundamentally break the game and make half the roster completely unusable.
- Dead by Daylight itself demonstrates it with its complete shift from m1 killers as the normal in the first half of the roster, to being virtually nothing but bash m2 killers with mobility in the latter half of the roster. You'll also notice these characters like Wesker, Blight and Spirit tend to be meta compared to their m1 counterparts, setting a new bar for every killer to meet, that the fundamental design of Trapper, Pig, Myers, etc can never reach... because of this every killer since Skull Merchant has strong repositioning tools and map mobility, and can basically afford to mostly ignore the macro game if they show wish... but also retain the ability to tunnel with impunity because they have the mobility to ensure they can keep up with and focus down a player off hook.
You get the idea... I get quite frustrated at the power creep mobile characters tend to bring to games... and we are seeing in now in DBD... it has often ruined games I used to love, and I would be upset to see DBD go the same way.
Very well-worded. A good read. 😎
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3988086#Comment_3988086
Twins have some of the worst implementation of an idea that we've ever seen.
Old SM needs no introduction. By far the worst thing they've ever added.
Knight isn't really that far behind old SM, but he's slightly more tolerable.
Sadako has gone through so many iterations because she had one strategy that was pretty strong, but the rest of her kit was weak. Then they ######### it up repeatedly.
Singu hasn't had many significant changes, iirc. He's extremely strong, but he requires a huge amount of pre-knowledge in order to access that strength.
Springtrap is just turbo ass to play against.
What we actually need is for BHVR to implement real engine changes. When I heard that the game couldn't handle any verticality, I think this was a Dev comment right after Ghoul, I kinda knew that they were out of ideas creativity-wise. Everything from this point on will be a rehash, because the game will actually self-destruct if they try anything new.
To be fair, I feel like the powers have been recycled in different ways for years now. I think they're starting to run out of combos is all.