UnicornMedal
UnicornMedal
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I don't think anything about these changes will prevent Survivors from playing altruistically. It's a massive element of the game.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991804#Comment_3991804
I thought it was proven that Fog Whisperers were given preferential queues? That they were given shorter queue times and more favorable mmr.
It's the first I've heard of it, but it could be possible. I just see the scope being larger than it seems and I don't see BHVR doing that very successfully.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991786#Comment_3991786
Lol. You do realize he's a fog whisperer, right? Have you noticed that you never see a fog whisperer playing against comp players? Otz and Tru3 play at roughly the same time on the same servers, yet Tru3 is consistently against comp survivors, and Otz is against potatoes that run into walls.
Just a funny little thing I noticed.
To be entirely fair, I doubt the amount of losses would bring it down to that 219 number. And the amount of effort to create and implement a queue "filter" (I don't even know what to call it) seems highly unlikely that it would even be a thing.
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If implemented correctly, it'll restore some autonomy and hope which is vital to the role. Can't make them chase a carrot on a stick if there's no carrot.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991652#Comment_3991652
Playing in a party doesn't make you magically better at the game. They're not all on comms either.
Likewise, I've performed far better with strangers I've had synergy with over my friends. Then again, my friends and I fart around and sabotage each other at times too. 😵
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What we're seeing primarily, in my opinion, is the ripple effect of trying to force the game into a competitive box. The game has always been PVP and therefore has always been competitive, but not competitive. MMR set the tone for how to play and then the 6.1.0 patch enforced it. All the way up to anti-go next, they've enforced that. I think this is the first time in over 4 years that they've truly made an effort to say that there's more to the game than kills. And you know what, I'm not at all surprised that players are finding it incredibly hard to adapt.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991478#Comment_3991478
I'm really surprised that people don't get the obvious point you are making.
Survivors have an objective to complete and a few different ways to approach it. There are pros and cons to the different approaches and BHVR has nerfed strategies that have been detrimental to the game.
Killers have an objective to complete and a few different ways to approach it. BHVR is finally looking at the one that is radically bad for the game. It's not going to force people to play in a certain way, its something that is a core part of the game (or any game for that matter).
The main difference is that it is so deeply ingrained that it's a necessary part of the Killer's toolkit, which isn't entirely wrong. But the fear of it not being there when they need it the most leads to this iron fist approach that it needs to remain equally as strong when they don't need it at all, which is a real problem for any power role to have.
What gets me too is that there's always this mindset that Killer is the weakest and most pitiable role in the game, which leads to calls for everything else being nerfed before camping/tunneling/slugging. It's why we have to nerf gens (again) first. Or flashlights first. Or pallets first. Or SWF first. Everything has to go and yet if it were to go, we still couldn't address the big 3 without major backlash. I'd make a whataboutist point, but we've already seen all of that over the course of the last 3 years.
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@Foggyguy said:
So if someone kills themself instantly… you do understand that's still going to be a pretty easy game right? It's just not an automatic win.
I think that's the biggest point being missed, is that from what I can tell, these changes are only there to provide more autonomy and accountability for the majority of trials. That it's still unlikely to kneecap any cheese, kill rates will still aim for the 60/40 ratio, and there's still room for BHVR to completely scale back the numbers so that these mechanics are only as affective as AFC (aka not at all effective).
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It's a "cake and eat it" situation.
You can't have a spooky game of hide and go seek that's also a comp game of tag any more than you can have a game with fractured teamwork where you're all meant to be a solid unit. There are many ways to bridge that gap. Better matchmaking is a major one. Adding comms to the game is another that would have a big impact. But if those are off the table, you do have to ease up on Survivor or else that solo vs SWF gap only grows larger, despite the kill rates.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990699#Comment_3990699
Weaving Spiders IS OP…. if you're in a 4 man SWF.
At the very least, it took the heat off No Mither for a while lmao
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@TripleStryke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990820#Comment_3990820
I'm sorry, do you want to be invincible? Not to be rude, but if you have been playing the game and think you need both unbreakable and tenacity base kit with no compensation for the killer, you need to improve and not make significant macro mistakes. If your teammates are throwing in a team game, they also need to improve. I think hard slugging is a problem (specifically for solo, and really only in the context of blindness), but there are a variety of reasons leaving someone on the ground is a good or NECESSARY decision to the point where punishing it is crazy. This is not something that should happen in normal gameplay, so the only reason you would want either is to just have 1-2 free perk slots.
That is a very huge stretch. I never said we need Tenacity. It's that anti-slug needs some weight behind it to be effective. I understand Killer needing to down someone to gain pressure, especially during a hook standoff. But I find 2 minutes, which is again half of the bleed out timer, to be excessive. 90 seconds without Tenacity is perfectly fine, because again it's an added effect that doesn't make or break a whole lot and can be covered either way with perks. But 2 minutes is excessive to me, so adding Tenacity to offer more autonomy is more appropriate in that scenario. Otherwise you're asking for less engagement and more breathing room for Killer, which doesn't balance it enough against slugging (in my opinion).
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I think I wanna see what the changes are like first before we go correcting any of it. Once upon a time, the game was balanced so that Killer having a head start made a lot of sense. But with so many things in Killers' favor, especially the endgame, I don't know that I'm ready to compensate too hard for anti-tunnel and anti-slug. But a head start mechanic isn't a bad idea overall.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990830#Comment_3990830
I don't think so. I like to compete. I don't want to play the "Dancing Monkey with a Weapon that He's Not Allowed to Use Too Often" role that essentially exists to entertain survivors as they bag the exit gates.
Different strokes.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990313#Comment_3990313
Idk where you are but killer queues have been borderline instant before 2v8. Survivor queues were actively climbing in fact at least on NA east even during weekends. I can only imagine what survivor queue times are gonna be like after 2v8 ends and ESPECIALLY when the anti tunnel and slug measures release.
It's very anecdotal. I genuinely don't remember my Survivor queues being awful pre-6.1.0, but a lot of people did experience that.
@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990826#Comment_3990826
Killer hasn't received a basekit buff since… what? 6.1? Sure, they bumped gen kicks up to 5%, but at the same time added gen kick limits. I honestly don't think that Behavior cares too much for killer fun. They've said as much. "If you're not having fun, play survivor. Or go play a different game. Or touch grass lulz."
It goes both ways. That same patch was meant to address the problem SM introduced of holding the trial hostage, but also removed gen tapping which was a buff to gen regression. BHVR really likes to only give buffs with some sort of nerf to balance it out, even if it doesn't make sense. Calm Spirit used to just silence screams and stealth crows, but now it makes you open chests and cleanse totems slower as a result of trying to make it more appealing.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990817#Comment_3990817
I dropped the game for over a year a couple of years ago. I haven't felt the need to play in weeks. I hate 2v8, Fog Vials, and my killer is janky af atm. This update is just a nail in the coffin.
Maybe you'll find something enjoyable again. I like doing event challenges even if the game sucks, so that's my reason to play usually. Offers lots and lots of breaks and still completes the Rift somehow. Uglier cosmetics in the Rift even saves me 10 bucks every now and then lmao
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990813#Comment_3990813
I know that I haven't even thought of booting up the game since the Walking Dead update added an item that guts my killer and broke her animations. And this update is making that decision more and more set in stone. I bought every character and a ton of skins, most of the rifts… and it's unlikely that BHVR will never see another red cent from me.
I feel the same way every time they gut my favorite perks. Aside from those, Survivor is essentially a fashion game (which I also enjoy). That's why I'm hopeful that this patch is a sign that they will start thinking of how to make the game more fun for everyone again. Anti-go next was ROUGH, but this (in my opinion) is a lot more tame than most of their attempts at balancing the game. I don't see why they couldn't continue that trajectory to even out more of the game. Other than you know, history.
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@TripleStryke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990793#Comment_3990793
Slugging is fine, hard slugging for a bleed out is not, which is met with a hard penalty of infinite unbreakable after (120) seconds on the ground. If stuff like sabotage, pallet saves, plot twist didn't exist sure the 90 seconds is fine, but I think having infinite pick ups after 90 seconds on the ground is a bit extreme no?There needs to be no doubt that this doesn't interrupt normal gameplay (the game has functioned relatively fine for years and survivors have plenty of tools to counter slugging already), and I think exercising caution outside of the most severe scenario is good. Base-kit tenacity also just hurts certain killers disproportionately and makes certain perks stronger.
I could compromise on one over the other, I think. 120 with Tenacity, or 90 without. Otherwise I don't think it'll make a very big dent in the problem.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990795#Comment_3990795
No, I won't. I'm one of the killer mains dropping the game. I'm calling this the "Go Play Silksong" update. Maybe I'll get into challenge runs or speed runs on a game that doesn't punish me for playing well.
If you're able to, more power to you. I don't make any claims that DBD is a good game. I'm sure a lot of us would be better off if we stopped playing, at least marginally (in my opinion of course).
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990790#Comment_3990790
You joke, but you know I'm right.
I don't mind (that much) if I lose. If I get outplayed by survivors that are looping and juking me, and I'm just getting my butt handed to me… fair enough. I can swallow that loss.
If I lose because the generators went in four minutes despite me quickly winning every chase in a decisive fashion, that's when it feels bad. And that's how a good portion of my games go these days. It doesn't seem to matter how well I play or how quickly I down, the gens still just fly. The only way I've found to slow the game down is getting a survivor out early. Gen regression doesn't really work, since every regression perk has been gutted over the past couple of years. CI is nothing more than a minor inconvenience. "Spreading pressure" doesn't work, because survivors recover from pressure so quickly. Heal times are basically instant and infinite.
So, yeah. I feel like I play really well and absolutely destroy the survivors in chase… yet I'm still getting tbagged at the gates within 5 or 6 minutes of the match starting.
Gens are too fast.
To be very fair, I said by and large. It's not going to apply to everybody. It's based on my own observations and experiences over time in different games and communities. Asymms will usually die on those two pain points.
I'm very much the same, where I don't actually care if I die in the game. I just want my time to feel valuable. But likewise, my experience is the same as yours. Killer running full slowdown and tunneling out the first Survivor, slugging everyone who tries to help until we Abandon before all 5 gens are done. Still a 40% escape rate overall, but it never really feels like it. However, I tracked my results with 2v8 and roughly 14 out of 18 trials ended in a steamroll primarily due to tunneling so strike that from the record. 😝
Who knows, maybe matchmaking is the biggest culprit of our disconnect.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990774#Comment_3990774
They want the killers to basically be bots. Strategy? What's that? Just mindlessly chase the first survivor you see, eventually get a hook, and use your BBQ basekit to mindlessly chase the next survivor. Repeat a couple more times, and by then the gens will all be done. Then you get to watch a fun little dance party at the exit gates!
Don't protect gens. Don't generate pressure. Just mindlessly chase survivors until they finish gens.
Honestly… at this point they should just get rid of the killer role entirely and replace it with mildly competent bots so the survivors are never, ever, more than mildly inconvenienced.
At the rate they're adding Killer bots to the game, you're gonna be waitin'.
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Basekit Tenacity I can take or leave. I'm a No Mither main and the Killer usually won't let me get away if they know what I'm up to, so I don't think it'd make a huge difference unless they're not paying attention at all. It's one of those things where with it, they can just run Deerstalker and without it, I can just run Tenacity.
The 120 seconds I'm not a fan of though. I don't think Killer realistically needs 2 minutes of pressure on one Survivor. That's half the bleed out timer and almost 2 generators. It totally defeats the purpose of Survivor having more autonomy during the slugged state. If you gave the player something better to do during that time, I wouldn't hate it. But otherwise it's too much (in my opinion).
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990779#Comment_3990779
No, the killer role wants to compete, and the survivor role wants to run around in circles and never get punished for any mistakes.
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@Ragna_Rock said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990781#Comment_3990781
Remember the famous civ 6 line. "Killer doesn't feel good? Just play something else!"
Was that limited to Killer? I can't remember. I know that boneheaded hockey comment was really annoying too. PR nightmares honestly.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990679#Comment_3990679
Here's a fun fact. No one cares and people rather have fun games than stay in a lobby for ten minutes because there's not enough survivors.
This eventually becomes an issue in every asymmetrical game like this. By and large, the "Killer" role wants to win and the "Survivor" role wants to have fun. The two mix like oil and water. Anything you do to balance it out causes the former to leave, and anything you do to skew it in their favor causes the latter to leave. I think the only saving grace with DBD is that you have a lot of players invested in the game and a high turnover rate with new content, so you never have to worry so much about losing players.
In short, if everyone on the forum hates these changes and leaves or swaps over to Survivor, there will be a new batch to take their place when the next licensed Killer drops. Same with Survivor.
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Voting "Just Right" because I want to see it in action first. On the surface, it's a little too good to be true. Depending on how they do it, it can go in a million different directions.
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At a certain point, the game drifts closer to PVE. More than anything, this patch seems like it's striving to give more autonomy to Survivor and change the Killer meta, the same way they do all the time. It just hasn't been this big of a basekit one since anti-3 gen (in my opinion).
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990740#Comment_3990740
As one example, killer has one survivor (player) they are slugging for the 4k and a bot remaining in the match.
Every 34 seconds the survivor stands up, and gets immediately hit back into the ground to reset recovery. (After the first 90s).
There is no escape path for the survivor in this scenario:
- The bot player is still standing, so abandon isn't available.
- The survivor can't physically crawl faster than the killer can walk, so they can't get away from being instantly downed again.
- The only avenue forward to end the game is for the survivor to be repeatedly downed, can't bleed out, and wait for the bot to finish however many gens remain. And since bots and terror radius, the killer can extend gen progress basically as long as they like.
Congratulations, instead of a 4 minute bleed out, you have a hostage situation. The killer completely decides if this occurs, the survivor has no way out except to disconnect (because the bleed out timer has been removed for no good reason).
That's just one example.
And then the anti-go next flags you on top of that. 😵
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@Ohyakno said:
Or like, you could just ask for rift skins to come back. I don't think money needs to be involved?
I like this option. I also like the option of the Rfit skins coming to the shop, but WOOF a $30 price tag? I already hate that Legendaries almost match the cost of the base game itself without a unique character to go along with it.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990748#Comment_3990748
No, I didn't. I asked if you would consistently apply the same logic as you did for all of these survivor buffs… and the answer is a resounding no.
You just heard what you wanted to hear, I guess.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990733#Comment_3990733
Bro. They cant even add 2 survivor skins and half a map without breaking half the game.
And? You asked me what I'd do and I told you.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990715#Comment_3990715
But you just said that you shouldnt have to bring perks to counter bad design. Or does that only apply to survivors?
Making perks basekit isn't the only solution. Scaling difficulty would slow them or speed them up depending on performance. There's other adjustments you could make in addition to that. Reworking them has a lot more possibilities as well. I think the idea of having to find items to repair gens with and then "checkpointing" them at intervals of 25% would also be good. Eliminates the issue of repairing more than 5 with regression, while also adding natural slowdowns and the ability to push them back within reason (in my opinion). Also great for teamwork.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
Considering how big of a joke this game turned into, makes sense.
To be fair, once K-pop was on the table they opened the floodgates for anything.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990703#Comment_3990703
Oh, so you agree that Corrupt Intervention and most gen regression perks should be basekit, then?
No. Adding time to gens/blocking them is the last thing I'd do. I'd either opt for a scaling difficulty like 2v8 and adjust that where necessary or rework gens and hooks entirely.
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Because slugging has been a problem for too long. The aforementioned perks are generally too niche. On top of that, you shouldn't have to bring perks to cover a flaw in the game design. It's something that's been repeated for years but never actually followed up on until now.
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Basekit doesn't delete perks, so all of the values are going to be different or lower compared to what the perks can do. Or it'll be something additive like Borrowed Time. If the changes go live mostly intact, DS might be changed to extend the duration of Elusive or something like that.
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Not gonna lie, the reaction to this patch is really giving me flashbacks to when a certain chunk of players were saying that Weaving Spiders was actually OP.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990616#Comment_3990616
Survivors didn't decide. Killers decided by playing dirty too often and taking away other players' agency. And those players make up 80% of a match. It's logical to give the 80% a buff if they're all universally unhappy.
If these tactics were rare, this wouldn't have been an issue. And if you didn't engage with them before, you'll be buffed and unharmed going forward.
But you don't UNDERSTAND 😤
Sorry, the heat has me feeling a little loopy tonight. 😝
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@Skeleton23 said:
Here's my point of view if this was the other way around survivor mains would be saying the same thing. I honestly feel like they care about thr survivors fun than the Killers Fun. Has anyone noticed once the Killer side has anything anywhere near good they nerf it with the mention it ruins the fun for survivors.
Im Gonna make a prediction that the killer side is going to be none existent and the killer side is gonna be filled with S-Tier Sweaty Killers trying to Adapt and enjoy the game but eventually the game will Die in a month if the Changes go through.
Would anyone be mad if I made a Hash Tag called #ImLeavingDBD
Like the others said, it's true that the game has been balanced to favor Killer. It's objectively true. BUT that doesn't mean that Killer doesn't get boring or frustrating. Or that every Killer player goes on big win streaks. Matchmaking ensures everyone gets a bad time at some point.
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It was mainly implemented to prevent the game from being held hostage. Without it, it could still happen. You just have to be able to keep downing Survivors before they can recover. So for that alone, it's best if it stays.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
As someone who plays both roles I like the general idea behind most of it but until we see actual numbers, it's hard to say if it's going to be awful, good or meh. We've had plenty of times where people were doom-posting over nothing without knowing the numbers and such.
I think the worst part is the Myers changes. Switching between tiers is great but giving him Pig dash is way out there. I don't even care about more dashslop as people call it, I just don't think it fits Myers. I always thought Myers should get more effects on survivors that he's stalked with the obsession getting special attention or bonus effects.It'd be kind of neat if they added something like Doctor's insanity if he gets Survivors to panic enough.
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Even if it's just a cosmetic collab, I'd love it. Just let Felix be Fred.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990497#Comment_3990497
I see your point but i highly doubt it considering the fact that devs most of they time think they know better and use statistics that make no sense
I absolutely agree with that. I'm just saying I don't know that anyone will be "forced" to play a certain way without it being rolled back. But we just have to wait and see.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990474#Comment_3990474
So by making you to stay and continue the game that you choose to start and you choose to play it , it's a way to force you to play in a specific way.
Now correct me if i am wrong but in a game like dbd, lol, overwatch, cs go or any other similar multiplayer game, when you start a game you should finish it, even if you are not enjoying it. yes should be way to end it faster but not leave it just because you don't like it.
If that tge case then you should play a single player game that your action only effect you
You're not getting what I'm saying. The systems were designed to prevent you from giving up, but they counted not contributing to the trial in a very specific way toward that. Risky plays and safe plays were equally penalized. Prioritizing gens were penalized. The system didn't work at all as intended so it was reverted. In this case, if anti-tunneling and anti-slugging causes the Killer to actually be unable to play the game (or more likely, kill rates drop too far), the odds of them being changed are high.
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@KingOfGhost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990464#Comment_3990464
But didn't those made to help survivors stay in the game and " force" them to play instead of having an bot.
In theory, yes. But in practice, it forced Survivors to play in specific ways or they'd be hit with a DC penalty. If you got on a gen too fast off hook or too close to the Killer, you'd get hit with one I know. I'm sure there were other scenarios too. I was on vacation that week so I didn't get to see personally.
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@Nobody_TM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990444#Comment_3990444
At the very least my sarcasm could be an invitation to use your imagination, provoke thought and consider perhaps there may be other answers or causes to the effect. Snark is just banal snark, drop a "sweetie 💅" and complete the picture already big brain.
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We've already done this with anti-go next and the AFK crows rework. It had to be reverted because it was too oppressive. If this fares the same, it'll have the same fate most likely.
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Maybe it's just me, but 2v8 has been incredibly brutal this cycle. I've only played Medic and Guide and I don't see how either of those are OP. Healing can only do so much and Blast Mine is incredibly niche. It's more fun to pull off than actively beneficial to the trial.
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@Nobody_TM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990435#Comment_3990435
I know that no serious person uses emojis in a meaningful discussion. You also aren't excactly beating the allegations here, kiddo.
This is a serious discussion? I thought being sarcastic with me meant you were being a silly billy.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990399#Comment_3990399
I would REALLY like that SO MUCH, but so far nothing has been said.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990406#Comment_3990406
The looproles are worring me.
Likewise with the numbers. It might just be another anti-face camp. I'm choosing to be hopeful that it'll benefit everyone in the long run. BHVR typically puts out one or two objectively good patches a year. Fingers crossed this is one of them.
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@Nobody_TM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990416#Comment_3990416
I mean what would be the point of explaining a "conflict of interest" to you, you don't strike me as someone whose open to the possibility of being wrong. I also don't think it'll matter; the effects of this patch if this course is maintained will be realized somewhere in the next couple of months, and when killer is seen to be untenable you will get the conditions which kicked off the 6.0.0 shake up all over again. The exchange just isn't comensrative, even taken the hook trade incentives to a comical level which they'd never do.
There's always Identity V; the times are changing.You sure know a lot about me, huh? 😵