mooasis
mooasis
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- mooasis
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the only time you would ever not want to recover automatically is because you didnt like a down and youre throwing on purpose which is horrible for the rest of your team. if you have a self pickup perk you still get to choose exactly when to activate it. no real agency is being taken away by this mechanic being introduced, its purely QoL
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@Jareth said:
The lobby that released with Sinister Grace looks great, but the constant feedback noise that plays now is not good. It wouldn't be so bad if it played it occasionally, but whatever it is with the constant humming noise just causes headaches for me. Alt-tabbing out hasn't muted the game sounds in a while, so I end up just having to mute my PC. Please either stop it from being a constant hum or give us an option to mute those sounds.
in audio settings, theres a setting called "mute focus" that will mute your game when you tab out when turned on
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+1
the thing i want the most for this killer is to make head and body form feel truly dependent on eachother - as it is now you can pretty much ignore every single pallet on the map because of how overbuffed head form got. making the decision to chase someone in head OR body form should be a real question at every loop, not just going into body form to spit and then be discardedto achieve this i like the idea of keeping a small bit of slide for intestinal whip but making it a super straight and difficult to turn to establish its niche in more standard tiles, and then when you get to round fillers and such you use body form for the curved lunge and break zoning. they also def need to address the vault → headlong flight combo since it can be used right now to outplay god pallets, completely eliminating the need to use body mode to break :/
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the only issue with spawning now is the inconsistency in distance and floor from the killer, if each side always spawns opposite eachother and on the same floor then its fine.
when survivors spawn together, if they all work a gen and you find them you know where everyone or a majority of the team is, and you know exactly where you need to go after your first down. if you find a straggler quickly you can usually know the rest of the survivors are going to be in whatever direction theyre running away from, and you have the option to commit now or go try to interrupt more players. (not to mention multiple survivors working on one gen is mechanically less efficent, not just on a macro scale)
when they spawn split up, you might find one survivor sooner, but that gives you absolutely no information on the rest of the team or the overall gen progress. if you have a slow first chase with split up survivors, thats usually when you get 3 gen pops across the map or 2 pops and 1 high progress and its much easier for the first chased survivor to lead the chase far away from every teammate. when grouped together even if one gen pops quickly, they now have to spend time running around finding other gens and when they do find them theyre relatively much less progressed than if they had spawned split up.
especially considering the current meta of pain res + dms that can completely deny repairs on a single generator and is actively more detrimental when survivors are grouped there is absolutely no world in which survivors spawning apart is more beneficial for the killer if you know what youre doing and understand macro for both sides
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@zohzow said:
Illusions sounds very interesting and creepy. How would you differentiate this rework from Unknown?
unknown hallucinations are a lot more useful during a chase as well as directly acting as slowdown/a side objective for survivors. they make themselves readily apparent and the unknown player has far more control over their exact placement across the entire map
an illusion is more to sow paranoia and take survivor eyes away from other angles where a stealthy myers can approach, or act as an angle of approach by itself if placed sneakily enough and is almost literally impossible to be used mid chase
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also he can lean like ghostface
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001103#Comment_4001103
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4001167#Comment_4001167
I think if it had unlimited range that could work and be a pretty good idea.
map wide would be insane, it would be quadrupling any aura reading perk you have permanently throughout a whole game. at least having the stipulation of being nearby imo makes it balanced but still super good
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i want visionary to share all auras you see with any teammates that are close to you like vigil
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@coldflame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000579#Comment_4000579
basekit gen info would help, but it won't stop survivors from 'hiding', fishing for flashlight saves, constantly forcing recents, or doing any number of other sub optimal things that arent gens
i would be seriously surprised if the game enters 2027 without 2v8 style gen rubberbanding being how 1v4 works, which is a very unfortunate direction for the game
it wouldnt stop those things but really those are bad plays not strictly related to gens, if youre running around actively trying to find a gen to work then gen aura would help those players a lot more
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@coldflame said:
toolboxes and individual volatility are genuinely dwarfed by the sheer inconsistency with which soloq players approach gens, if all 4 players are aggressively doing gens then the game is completely different to a game where 2-3 survs are not
i genuinely dont know how you balance the game around this, if you make it so that all players doing gens is 'fair' for killer then most soloq games are autolose, if you make the game winnable with some of the survs neglecting gens then the killer has no agency if the survs actually decide to do gens
honestly i think at some point its just mandatory for survivors to see gen auras, either the nearest gen or all gens or gens a teammate is working on, whatever manner they have to do so. players with a lot of experience will already know where all the gens are anyway and we dont really need to punish bad players not only for being afraid to commit to gens but also spend half the match not even knowing where they are in the first place. it also alleviates one of the biggest problems with indoor maps which are even more inconsistent for finding gens and gen speed suffers much harder in indoors
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@Emeal said:
Generator speeds are fine, its Killers who refuse to patrol them and get survivors off them.
Had a match with a Wesker recently, first 3 min was chasing the first person.
He ran past me on a Gen 3 times within less than 8m.Then we pop the first 3 gens he starts to tunnel because of it, told us postgame chat, we were Gen rushing him.
base gen speeds arent a problem, the problem is that they wildly vary not always dependent on how the killer plays but the type of items or perks that survivors bring. better consistency in how long it takes for repairs will help killers make better macro decisions and predict timings and not have plays retroactively be worse because a certain thing was brought in. the genrushing/tunnelling thing is also an ouroboros of itself - killers "have" to tunnel because survivors "genrush", survivors "have" to "genrush" because killers tunnel. theyre problems almost dependent on eachother and they both need to be fixed
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000400#Comment_4000400
Hyperfocus and Stakeout are only problematic with toolboxes, not so much on their own, and all other gen speed increases are honestly pretty small so even in combination they're well within reasonable parameters.
I do agree that toolboxes being adequately addressed probably would mean them being dropped, but to be fair BHVR have been at least attempting to make item variety better. Keys were substantially improved, maps were at least ostensibly improved, and there was a whole new item that we could strengthen to make it more appealing compared to medkits.
It also doesn't really stop toolboxes from just being the problem with gen speeds, so it's worth doing even if people just shift to medkits.What I'd do with toolboxes is rework the repair speed to something else entirely. Maybe a shield against regression, that idea's been tossed around before— that combined with the extra skillcheck chance (+ a nerf to Hyperfocus so it doesn't work when repairing with toolboxes) would make toolboxes more than worth using without radically altering repair speeds.
fair take
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4000378#Comment_4000378
It's just overcomplicating the problem. There's one specific item that causes this issue, so just address that item.
Even stacking a full build surrounding gen speed increases gives you less than half the value of a toolbox, there really isn't an issue outside of specifically toolboxes.
there are a lot of things in combination that can make gen speeds wildly vary, which yes does include toolboxes, but perks such as hyperfocus + stakeout, deja and resi, prove etc. i agree toolboxes are problematic and should be addressed but you cant only address toolboxes as the meta would shift to medkit and whatever the next best gen tools are which atm is hyperfocus and stakeout (bardic also has very strong synergy with those perks)
in general though for toolboxes, i think making them unable to get skill checks to remove great bonuses and certain perk synergy is a good place to start, removes the ceiling but also makes them easier to use for noobs. other than that just generally nerfing charges is probably the next step
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@jesterkind said:
While I agree that tunnelling and genrushing are somewhat-equivalent issues that both require changes, you're stepping into a very common pitfall in discussing them: You're trying to solve a loadout problem with basekit adjustments.
Tunnelling is a basekit problem, the killer can do it no matter their loadout, it requires no investment from them. Genrushing, on the other hand, requires specific tools to do at all, and even more specific tools than that to do in any way that's actually problematic.
There's no reason to change the survivor basekit to address genrushing. You just need to rework toolboxes and the problem practically disappears on its own.
having a minimum amount of time a gen must be completed in only has an effect towards survivors who bring tools to make them faster. theres no way for a gen to be completed in less than 70 seconds solo without items or perks
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would love to see him back but its a licensing issue which means its not fully in bhvrs hands. surely theyre already working on a new deal if possible though
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/456500/change-volatile-generator-speeds
completely agree, if killers are forced to delay kills then gen speed absolutely needs to be knocked back. the issue with that is a large section of players already hate touching gens because its boring sitting there pressing a skill check now and then and shows no skill. The argument pushed by many survivors is chase and interaction is the fun and skilful part. Who wants this boring gen mechanic to be prolonged further? maybe if survivors had additional objectives on top of doing gens (similar to the blood gens mechanic)? Maybe have an item they need to find first? im not sure what exactly but something that involves a bit of movement and risk or a little mini game of some sort to keep players attention so they wouldnt mind putting the extra time into doing it. Asking a survivor to spend more time on a gen just wont go down well.
alternatively, if gen speeds remain the same, maybe make it easier for all types of killers to get downs not just the ever so popular speed freaks and nurse.
i think you can normalise gen speeds without making them strictly last longer at base, the way i suggested is one of them. there are definitely other ways to go about it as well, some amount of basekit corrupt/deadlock or like in 2v8 gens will be boosted/slowed dependent on how many gens are completed. imo the biggest factor to how quick gens can be completed is using perks and toolboxes that massively affect their speed, especially in the case of hyperfocus or the very best commodius toolbox/bnp etc. reducing the effects that these stack is one step to making gens last a more consistent duration
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i suggested a time for the killer to be able to abandon
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@brewingtea said:
For Killer: I wouldn't mind allowing "Forfeiture" for any reason at all, at any point after (let's just say) 90 seconds into the match.
You can't just say, "Oops, you win!" as soon as the match starts, but after some token amount of time, you should be able to Abandon whenever you want. It's not like you're "ruining the game for your teammates" or anything.
Survivors are trickier, but I like your suggestions.
i agree on principle that a killer DC is overall less unhealthy than a survivor DC, but i do think its generally better to encourage people to play out games to learn, potentially comeback, learn something new etc and a killer DC can deny certain achievements and such (adepts, map specific escapes, outbreak breakout etc). thatd need to be fixed first if they wanted to implement that kind of feature
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when did i say getting a down at 2 gens? you dont have to lose multiple gens for a chase to take a long time, and most predominantly killers with a weaker chase power are put into double binds in save situations. it would be a 1 time use and survivors still have 11+ opportunities to save someone afterwards
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992318#Comment_3992318
It is roughly the same thing, but I don't think more info would hurt. Just in case the proposed UI indicator isn't enough.
ah yeah i definitely agree hook indicators should be in the game already. people who desperately want to tunnel are going to be tracking hooks on every player anyway
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@CompetitifDBD said:
Thats not an objective prop, thus it should not be considered a conspicuous action. Imagine running OTR and vaulting something to run away from the killer, instantly ending your endurance, does that sound fair?
it does sound fair which is why im suggesting it, if youve had the luxury to reach a pallet then you dont really need any more help (if the pallet is unsafe you can just not vault it and go to a better part of the map especially if you force the speed boost)
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992296#Comment_3992296
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992299#Comment_3992299
To be honest, it's not like Killers were going to let up on tunneling anyway. Even if this patch goes through, it might not change a whole lot. Personally I think it's better to potentially help those that don't mean to but end up doing it on accident.
I agree. It'd be a good follow-up if this all works out.
after this patch you can never "accidentally" tunnel unless youre so new you genuinely arent paying attention to anything. after each hook youll see every survivor on the map that has less hooks, all of which will give you the same information after being caught + youre told on the hud who was hooked last. obviously tunnelling will still sometimes happen, but NEVER accidentally.
(after rereading your comment im not sure if youre trying to say basically the same point that i am or not) -
if you're playing a weak killer you need to go into every game understanding that your killer is weak and that you have to expect a worse result than a higher tier killer, and that any change to the game that benefits survivor in any meaningful way will make weaker killers worse. dont ask BHVR to hold the game back for everyone else because YOU chose to play or main a killer YOU know is weak, reorient your expectations. (the same is true for higher tier killers like jarky is saying). if you care so much about winning then dont play a killer thats bad at winning, and if youre playing weak killers because theyre more fun then understand youre playing for fun and NOT results
(also im not saying weaker killers dont deserve buffs, they should absolutely be brought more in line with stronger killers whenever BHVR have the opportunity to work on them) -
@SoGo said:
I can only say a single word....
Interesting.
The only thing I object to is Myers.
He was fine before. Skully mains, I know how you feel now.
they said theyre making tuft of hair revert him to how he worked before, so he at least wont be irreversibly butchered like skerchant was
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3989865#Comment_3989865
Basekit Pop is nothing and it's a well know fact that if you 8 hook before killing any surv you already lost the match.
Also survs will keep using 2nd chance perks and weaponize them against the killer.if you 8 hook then you already outplayed every survivor in a chase twice for up to 16 health states, at that point who cares if you "won" in the games terms when you've proven you're better anyway? 8 hooking would again be far better than it is now with constant information on survivor positions and stronger gen regression BOTH without using any perks. if those changes came without touching tunnelling survivors would be complaining just as hard as killers are right now about how "killer is op and being handheld" or whatever
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@Dadeordye said:
YEAH!
That's what I've been waiting for! Addressing tunnel without the reason of why killers do it.
You're now forced to 6 hooks before killing a surv.
Slow the damn gens and make unable for gen related perks to stack or work with each other like Hyperfocus+Stakeout.
GOD DAMN IT!
Also I'm sure you tweaked Dracula's number by A LOT for nerfs and almost nothing for buffs and what did you do with Kaneki? Removed the kidnap tech and that's it.
NICE!the reason killers tunnel:
gens are too quick (addressed by basekit pop)
they cannot find another survivor (addressed by basekit bbq)
it is generally the most efficient strategy (its now massively inefficient if done too early in the game)
they absolutely addressed tunnelling at its core and they have BIG compensatory buffs for spreading hooks now, especially the information youll get from bbq is massive for all killers -
feedback for some listed changes
Antislug meter: should slow down when there are nearby survivors (similar to anticamp) as this is the typical situation a killer has the opportunity to slug aggressively and they deserve to benefit heavily from it. otherwise this is fine as a combatant to slugging. (positive: recovery without needing to hold a button is an amazing change, so many games are lost because a stubborn survivor will refuse to recover)Obscuring hook status: this only really serves to take away important macro-information from weaker killers and those who intentionally choose to not tunnel already. a tunnelling or high strength killer has easy access to consistently check back on the hook and a tunnelling one will often proxy camp the hook regardless, meaning they can visibly see the unhook occuring. if committing to the idea then the hook should stay obscured with a black bubble surrounding it but i think a better idea is to only apply it if a killer is within 24m of the hook or so (so a faraway killer still gets information they need to play)
Losing collision after unhook: a great and perfect change, though i think it should go further. instead of unhooks removing collision from the killer, all endurance effects should remove collision while theyre active. that becomes a more intuitive method of understanding when its in play and takes away certain problematic offensive bodyblocking while not losing any of the defensive value of endurance effects.
Basekit BBQ: Make it a white aura or killer instinct or both, no other notes.
Tunnelling punishment/hook state UI: give survivors the same info of who was last hooked (glowing hook tally?), and make one half of the killers hoor counterr a different color/pattern etc to showcase that there are unique effects when someone dies before 6.
Tunnelling: consider reducing or removing the effects at certain stages of the game. if a survivor is consecutively hooked/killed at 2 or especially 1 gen remaining, survivors dont need additional help in repair speed. a consecutive hook kill also isnt so problematic if multiple survivors are already on death hook, so the gen regression/block removal after someone dies should only occur before 6 hook stages.
Myers: why limit the range he can stalk survivors? limiting his range takes away an important aspect of his skill expression and stalking very faraway wasnt problematic when survivors are paying attention as they should
otherwise i love these changes and im super excited to see how they reshape the games meta as a whole and how its played, considering the many possibilites to combat tunnelling especially it seems the devs have taken an extremely well thought out and fair method of preventing it ❤️
edit: as someone above me mentioned a death hook survivor can intentionally bodyblock for other survivors at low hook counts and potentially largely buff their team. its possible the way this is designed that wouldnt negatively affect the game and could net benefit the killer, but a simple solution to that problem if it exists would be to make a death hook survivor have no collision with the killer -
good idea, but he'll still need further buffs to not be a terrible bottom tier killer
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you do still get passive fragments for XP, but its half as much as it was before (5/100 vs previously 1/10). they definitely need to buff that back up, and they should take milestones back to what they were last chapter (they made every level give 25 for a total of 2500 per milestone, previously it advanced from 10-20-30… for a total of 5500 per milestone)
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really all they needed to do was to make every available challenge in every tome active at the same time (you would still progress left to right and claim as normal, just have them automatically selected and progressed), idk why they went with such a flavorless alternative when there was really only one meaningful complaint about the tome challenges. this wouldve been a lot lot better for new players too, they would be constantly showered with bp and things to do/unlock rather than being dripfed quests per week
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3974635#Comment_3974635
I'm not buying "you can't have cool stuff because of accessibility issues". That attitude is why we'll never have a spider killer. Telling everybody they can't have a dope item or killer because one out of every hundred thousand people have an issue with it is ridiculous.
im not saying that fog vials should be removed, what i asked for keeps most of their functionality intact while removing the accessibility problem. (you can see survivors pretty clearly if theyre nearby in fog vials anyway so the current version really only hurts people who dont have great vision)
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its an accessibility nightmare even if theyre limited use
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*no addon reworks or exact numbers because at the end of the day thats for BHVR to decide, it would just muddy up the main point of the post
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you can access the rift in a party if you click quests from the left and then view rift at the bottom, but not while in the pregame lobby
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any perk survivors have today were stronger or had a stronger alternative in the past (excluding off the record and finesse by 5%). if youre not catching people it could be your skill but you should also consider factors such as the map/map generation and the killer youre playing
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972533#Comment_3972533
This is a feature, not a bug. Otherwise, how you supposed to counter him when you are being chased by the guard and the Knight at the same time?
as long as you havent cornered yourself you can path well to make the guard and knight take the same path to follow you, you can just run away from knight if hes holding a banner and this is a terrible playstyle for knight to use anyway as it doesnt pressure more than one survivor (the best way is to keep multiple people busy by ignoring your guard and chasing someone else). having a feature such as this means that youre MORE incentivized to follow and sandwich a hunted survivor because you cant rely on your guard to get hits by himself
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yes please
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old crows only really needed an extra 30 seconds or so for them to activate. the first 2 dont matter, only the 3rd one does, and i hadnt seen anyone get all 3 crows in any games id played during that patch (but i did see and get to the first crow myself a few times). idk why they went so overkill on nerfing them, usually their changes are pretty conservative lol
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in that situation just heal the guy who activated ftd and then dont cleanse any totems, the killer designated their entire build to basically have 2 perks (ftd and ruin) and theyre really not strong enough to be worth spending 2 minutes cleansing
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i agree that maps have really strange feeling weighting to them, it feels like i get rpd or forgotten ruins 50% of the time and so many other maps barely ever show up, they should make a better system for variety (maybe not being able to see a map twice in 3 or 4 games? with 5 players that would probably mean you always see unique realms in a given play session)
however nerfing map offerings was absolutely a mandatory decision, as they are now they should be reworked/removed since theyre basically worthless. the problem before was just how much agency you have to sway the game in your favor while taking that agency from the other side, having certain maps be one sided isnt as much of a problem when they dont show up constantly and you cant choose when you win -
+1
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+1 no reason not to
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theres no reason for this not to be a feature +1
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@Roco45 said:
No. What is honestly with you people suggesting buffs to Killers who don't tunnel, most Killers do it to be toxic and to have easy games. They don't care about bloodpoints or anything other than making other people miserable or incredibly easy games. Crazy idea, how about BHVR hard punishes camping and tunneling by offering nothing besides penalties to the Killer if they do it? I bet that would curb it.
people tunnel because its the most efficient way to play. making a different playstyle more efficient would reduce the amount of tunnelling (though i dont think OPs idea would make spreading hooks any more efficient really)
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imo there should be a permanent basekit repair penalty similar to gift of pain after being hooked (maybe 10% or so). this would actively encourage killers to leave an unhooked survivor as they repair slower anyway and encourage spreading hooks to slow down the pace of the entire game. there should also definitely be punishment for intentionally tunnelling as well, as the problem needs to be solved by making tunnelling inherently less efficient than other playstyles
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@ralecgos said:
I think nerfing them to 20% was one of those changes that sounded good at the time, but is actually bad for the flavor and longterm fun of the game.
I feel the same way about when the Moon offerings were removed, which made the maps darker.
We're not playing a competitive/rated game here. Removing flavor from the game and over-balancing things is a good way to make it stale.
having every couple matches being sent to eyrie/rpd/autohaven makes the game stale much much faster than being guaranteed a random map every game
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you're deflecting from the actual point im trying to make: 1v2 is immensely boring and uninteresting for both sides. when survivors are doing well both sides still have interesting gameplay decisions to make (assuming the map and matchmaking aren't abhorrently one-sided, which are separate issues of map design and how mmr is calculated)
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keys next patch functionally act as a buff for moment of glory if rummaging counts, that might be a pretty good buff. having a perk like moment of glory as an actual meta perk would be really devastating for some weaker killers i think
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@mooasis said:
I'd like to pose a solution to a problem that has been in the game since its inception: the lack of options, boredom and perceived unfairness of matches that enter the 1v2 before the exit gates have been powered. As Survivor, this situation leaves you with very little to do: if gens aren't close to completion, you either wait around for your teammate to die for hatch, or your teammate is slugged for the Killer to find you and 4k. As Killer, when one Survivor is downed you wait for them to die and hope to find the other, or slug and waste even more of your time looking for a stealthing Survivor for the 4k. Neither of these options are very enjoyable for either side, nor do they lead to any interesting interactions or decisions during gameplay. When one Survivor is hooked you enter a lose-lose as Survivor, and a very boring use of your time as Killer.
My suggestion to help make this stage of the game more interesting is very straightforward: when there are only two Survivors left alive in the trial, one of the available Exit Gates will be powered (the other will be blocked by the Entity). Any remaining Survivor can use and escape through this gate, however it would be considered the same as a Hatch escape, meaning neither the Survivor or Killer's MMR is changed. All generators on the map would remain unaffected: Survivors can continue working on them and if completed, power the second Exit Gate and consider escaping through them a win.
This would add a lot more decision making and meaning to the 1v2:
- with an option for the Survivors to escape, the Killer will have a hot spot to find Survivors who would otherwise be stealthing, and add tension to a game that may have otherwise been an uninteresting one-sided win (or avoid boredom from Survivors who refuse to interact). With only one powered Exit Gate, you can keep an eye on a high-risk high-reward area without risking the Survivors using the second gate and escaping completely without counterplay. You can still commit to a chase with one Survivor and secure 3 kills if you catch them quickly, or slug as normal and look for the fourth Survivor at the gate for 4 kills.
- as Survivor, in a game that may have been previously hopeless, you now have the opportunity to use your looping skills and buy time for a teammate to escape early, or risk committing to generator repair for a safer gate open and a winning game state. If your teammate is hooked, rather than the correct play always being to let them die for your own safety, you can risk attempting a hook save and sacrifice yourself for their escape or gen efficiency (with one powered gate the Killer may have more incentive to leave the hook and allow an unhook opening).
This change would mean that more Killer games lead to 2 or 1 escapes that may not have previously happened, but currently I feel this part of the game is wholly unrewarding, uninteresting and unfun for both sides. The achievement of 3 or 4 kills is largely dulled and dragged out by the wasted time looking for Survivors in a match thats already functionally over, and Survivors have no remaining stakes or meaningful plays they can make. A steamroll game from the Killer has potential for a real comeback for Survivors, and certain close games have the option between a safer but hollow escape for Survivor or ability to stay in the trial and risk a properly deserved escape.
just to be clear, this is a suggestion designed to add more engaging gameplay and decision making for both sides during 1v2, not intended to rebalance the kill rates, game or MMR system.i also have a post about the frustrating parts of 1v2 if you want to have a look 🙂