mooasis
mooasis
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964993#Comment_3964993
You’re basically suggesting that survivors deserve a chance for 2 escapes to happen in the same match, even if the survivors repaired 0 generators that game.
for the sake of more engaging and worthwhile gameplay, yes. like i already said in the main post this isnt about kill rate or balancing. the killer would still get 3 kills in this situation most of the time anyway, especially if they had 2 survivors dead at 5 gens
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@Coffeecrashing said:
If there are only two survivors left, and one of the survivors gets placed in the dying state (slugged), then auto-teleport the slugged survivor to a random hook. And allow that hooked survivor to miss 2 skill checks, to sacrifice themselves, so the last survivor has a chance to get hatch earlier.
Even if the hooked survivor purposely hits all their hook skill checks, it still completely removes “slugging for the 4k”.
the problem with 4k slugging isnt with the act of slugging itself (whether or not slugging is inherently problematic is a different discussion), its that in the 1v2 it leaves no options or reason for the survivor to continue interacting with the killer or their teammate. slugging with 3 or 4 survivors alive still has plenty of ways and incentive for both sides to interact and prolong/finish the game
in a 1v2 the only correct decision is to let your teammate die if theyre caught, auto-hooking doesnt make that any more of an engaging experience -
@Lexilogo said:
I think improvements to the 1v2 experience is a good cause. When hearing that an exit gate will be powered though, I do get very skeptical, I worry about a few things:
- Denying an exit gate opening can be hard for Killers. In this case you only need to worry about a single one, but you're worrying about 2 Survivors, if you find and start chasing one, that's a big green light for the other to immediately run and open the gate. Securing a 4K would be pretty hard under those circumstances, especially if the survivor you're chasing isn't on death hook.
- If a Survivor gets an exit gate open, both Survivors are healthy, and the Killer has no instadown/multihit potential, that's turned a match where they won the match into a 2K which, no matter what the MMR says, won't feel good psychologically.
- Speaking of the MMR, the evaluation could be a bit weird, because I think most players consider a 2K to be roughly a draw in the current state of the game. If the 2nd Survivor death happens just as the last two Survivors are completing the final gen, would the MMR difference between them finishing the gen before or after their teammate's death be really big? Or is the incentive for finishing the last gens mainly an MMR thing?
- This could have the problem of kicking the can down the road and causing Survivors to start hiding in a 1v3 scenario instead of the 1v2.
Maybe with adjustments like opening the gate taking 5x as long or something this could be worth a playtest on a PTB, but I'm still doubtful. I think some other system should be thought up for dealing with the 1v2 stalemate. A repair speed bonus would be fair, and I also wonder if some Endgame Collapse-esque system could force the remaining survivors to take risks instead of hiding.
i absolutely understand the skepticism and agree to a certain extent, but fixing 1v2 does sort of require handing power back to the survivors in some way: in order to give you have to take a little bit of agency and potential away from the killer. the goal is for a more engaging and enjoyable experience and the lacking engagement is absolutely down to how one sided it is for the killer.
- this definitely could be rough in some scenarios, but as is most of the time securing a 4k just means slugging one guy and hoping to find the other. if you get a quick down due to creating deadzones, having survivors already injured, knowing survivor locations etc you still have an opportunity to find and down the last survivor. if they escape, its functionally identical to them out-stealthing you until you give up and hook the slug for hatch but without all of the time wasted
- this might feel bad, but i think accepting a slightly more even game state (2 dead and 2 out) is overall healthier, especially if the survivors expressed good play or the killer expressed poor play
- to my understanding, the current MMR system works this way: the killer has a "1v1" with every survivor on the team, and all players individually gain or lose MMR depending on whether they killed or survived. ie if 3 survivors die, and 1 survivor escapes through the gate, the killer takes MMR from the 3 dead survivors and loses MMR to the 1 escaped survivor (hatch is draw). while this system is quite flawed, the incentive to stay in the match is for MMR, but also for the feeling of an earned and rewarding escape
- while this may become a problem, i do think the reason for stealthing right now isnt because survivors dont want to interact with the killer but because they want to secure their escape: the only option for that is to stealth and let your teammate die. in the 1v3 this isnt as much of a problem because you still have a fair bit of agency and you dont need to stealth for a chance at winning, and the same is true for the idea i suggested. hiding is a valid playstyle during all stages of the game to make an escape more likely, but its never required in the same way it is in a 1v2.
i do think that gate opening as a whole could be increased a little to 25 or 30 seconds which would certainly help with this, but thats a bit of a different discussion. if this were a feature it might encourage a bit more perk diversity with remember me or even blood warden becoming more valuable meta picks, no way out already is very good but it would definitely see more use and be more valuable in games that dont enter a traditional endgame. if gate speed is a concern there are ways to play around it with perk choice which would influence the current quad regression type of playstyle, i think both sides would be appreciative of that switch up.