Change objectives in 1v2 for more interesting gameplay

mooasis · July 14, 2025

I'd like to pose a solution to a problem that has been in the game since its inception: the lack of options, boredom and perceived unfairness of matches that enter the 1v2 before the exit gates have been powered. As Survivor, this situation leaves you with very little to do: if gens aren't close to completion, you either wait around for your teammate to die for hatch, or your teammate is slugged for the Killer to find you and 4k. As Killer, when one Survivor is downed you wait for them to die and hope to find the other, or slug and waste even more of your time looking for a stealthing Survivor for the 4k. Neither of these options are very enjoyable for either side, nor do they lead to any interesting interactions or decisions during gameplay. When one Survivor is hooked you enter a lose-lose as Survivor, and a very boring use of your time as Killer.

My suggestion to help make this stage of the game more interesting is very straightforward: when there are only two Survivors left alive in the trial, one of the available Exit Gates will be powered (the other will be blocked by the Entity). Any remaining Survivor can use and escape through this gate, however it would be considered the same as a Hatch escape, meaning neither the Survivor or Killer's MMR is changed. All generators on the map would remain unaffected: Survivors can continue working on them and if completed, power the second Exit Gate and consider escaping through them a win.

This would add a lot more decision making and meaning to the 1v2:

- with an option for the Survivors to escape, the Killer will have a hot spot to find Survivors who would otherwise be stealthing, and add tension to a game that may have otherwise been an uninteresting one-sided win (or avoid boredom from Survivors who refuse to interact). With only one powered Exit Gate, you can keep an eye on a high-risk high-reward area without risking the Survivors using the second gate and escaping completely without counterplay. You can still commit to a chase with one Survivor and secure 3 kills if you catch them quickly, or slug as normal and look for the fourth Survivor at the gate for 4 kills.

- as Survivor, in a game that may have been previously hopeless, you now have the opportunity to use your looping skills and buy time for a teammate to escape early, or risk committing to generator repair for a safer gate open and a winning game state. If your teammate is hooked, rather than the correct play always being to let them die for your own safety, you can risk attempting a hook save and sacrifice yourself for their escape or gen efficiency (with one powered gate the Killer may have more incentive to leave the hook and allow an unhook opening).

This change would mean that more Killer games lead to 2 or 1 escapes that may not have previously happened, but currently I feel this part of the game is wholly unrewarding, uninteresting and unfun for both sides. The achievement of 3 or 4 kills is largely dulled and dragged out by the wasted time looking for Survivors in a match thats already functionally over, and Survivors have no remaining stakes or meaningful plays they can make. A steamroll game from the Killer has potential for a real comeback for Survivors, and certain close games have the option between a safer but hollow escape for Survivor or ability to stay in the trial and risk a properly deserved escape.

just to be clear, this is a suggestion designed to add more engaging gameplay and decision making for both sides during 1v2, not intended to rebalance the kill rates, game or MMR system.

Lexilogo · July 14, 2025

I think improvements to the 1v2 experience is a good cause. When hearing that an exit gate will be powered though, I do get very skeptical, I worry about a few things:

Denying an exit gate opening can be hard for Killers. In this case you only need to worry about a single one, but you're worrying about 2 Survivors, if you find and start chasing one, that's a big green light for the other to immediately run and open the gate. Securing a 4K would be pretty hard under those circumstances, especially if the survivor you're chasing isn't on death hook.
If a Survivor gets an exit gate open, both Survivors are healthy, and the Killer has no instadown/multihit potential, that's turned a match where they won the match into a 2K which, no matter what the MMR says, won't feel good psychologically.
Speaking of the MMR, the evaluation could be a bit weird, because I think most players consider a 2K to be roughly a draw in the current state of the game. If the 2nd Survivor death happens just as the last two Survivors are completing the final gen, would the MMR difference between them finishing the gen before or after their teammate's death be really big? Or is the incentive for finishing the last gens mainly an MMR thing?
This could have the problem of kicking the can down the road and causing Survivors to start hiding in a 1v3 scenario instead of the 1v2.

Maybe with adjustments like opening the gate taking 5x as long or something this could be worth a playtest on a PTB, but I'm still doubtful. I think some other system should be thought up for dealing with the 1v2 stalemate. A repair speed bonus would be fair, and I also wonder if some Endgame Collapse-esque system could force the remaining survivors to take risks instead of hiding.

mooasis · July 14, 2025

@Lexilogo said:
I think improvements to the 1v2 experience is a good cause. When hearing that an exit gate will be powered though, I do get very skeptical, I worry about a few things:
Denying an exit gate opening can be hard for Killers. In this case you only need to worry about a single one, but you're worrying about 2 Survivors, if you find and start chasing one, that's a big green light for the other to immediately run and open the gate. Securing a 4K would be pretty hard under those circumstances, especially if the survivor you're chasing isn't on death hook.
If a Survivor gets an exit gate open, both Survivors are healthy, and the Killer has no instadown/multihit potential, that's turned a match where they won the match into a 2K which, no matter what the MMR says, won't feel good psychologically.
Speaking of the MMR, the evaluation could be a bit weird, because I think most players consider a 2K to be roughly a draw in the current state of the game. If the 2nd Survivor death happens just as the last two Survivors are completing the final gen, would the MMR difference between them finishing the gen before or after their teammate's death be really big? Or is the incentive for finishing the last gens mainly an MMR thing?
This could have the problem of kicking the can down the road and causing Survivors to start hiding in a 1v3 scenario instead of the 1v2.
Maybe with adjustments like opening the gate taking 5x as long or something this could be worth a playtest on a PTB, but I'm still doubtful. I think some other system should be thought up for dealing with the 1v2 stalemate. A repair speed bonus would be fair, and I also wonder if some Endgame Collapse-esque system could force the remaining survivors to take risks instead of hiding.

i absolutely understand the skepticism and agree to a certain extent, but fixing 1v2 does sort of require handing power back to the survivors in some way: in order to give you have to take a little bit of agency and potential away from the killer. the goal is for a more engaging and enjoyable experience and the lacking engagement is absolutely down to how one sided it is for the killer.

this definitely could be rough in some scenarios, but as is most of the time securing a 4k just means slugging one guy and hoping to find the other. if you get a quick down due to creating deadzones, having survivors already injured, knowing survivor locations etc you still have an opportunity to find and down the last survivor. if they escape, its functionally identical to them out-stealthing you until you give up and hook the slug for hatch but without all of the time wasted
this might feel bad, but i think accepting a slightly more even game state (2 dead and 2 out) is overall healthier, especially if the survivors expressed good play or the killer expressed poor play
to my understanding, the current MMR system works this way: the killer has a "1v1" with every survivor on the team, and all players individually gain or lose MMR depending on whether they killed or survived. ie if 3 survivors die, and 1 survivor escapes through the gate, the killer takes MMR from the 3 dead survivors and loses MMR to the 1 escaped survivor (hatch is draw). while this system is quite flawed, the incentive to stay in the match is for MMR, but also for the feeling of an earned and rewarding escape
while this may become a problem, i do think the reason for stealthing right now isnt because survivors dont want to interact with the killer but because they want to secure their escape: the only option for that is to stealth and let your teammate die. in the 1v3 this isnt as much of a problem because you still have a fair bit of agency and you dont need to stealth for a chance at winning, and the same is true for the idea i suggested. hiding is a valid playstyle during all stages of the game to make an escape more likely, but its never required in the same way it is in a 1v2.

i do think that gate opening as a whole could be increased a little to 25 or 30 seconds which would certainly help with this, but thats a bit of a different discussion. if this were a feature it might encourage a bit more perk diversity with remember me or even blood warden becoming more valuable meta picks, no way out already is very good but it would definitely see more use and be more valuable in games that dont enter a traditional endgame. if gate speed is a concern there are ways to play around it with perk choice which would influence the current quad regression type of playstyle, i think both sides would be appreciative of that switch up.

LockerLurk · July 15, 2025

I'm sorry but the way the game is designed by the Devs, it's 100% intentional for the game to become tougher for Survivor as people on the team die.

zohzow · July 15, 2025

I completely agree that the 1v2 settings feels bad for both sides and frankly I can't think of anything to solve this issue other than unlocking 1 exit gate like you suggested. The biggest problem is the feeling killers will get when any survivors escape this way, especially if it's 2. HOWEVER this feeling kinda already exist in the current game with hatch escapes. Maybe there's something that can be done to fix this "feeling" by emphasizing the fact that the survivor's escape doesn't negatively impact the killer's skill rating.

Coffeecrashing · July 15, 2025

If there are only two survivors left, and one of the survivors gets placed in the dying state (slugged), then auto-teleport the slugged survivor to a random hook. And allow that hooked survivor to miss 2 skill checks, to sacrifice themselves, so the last survivor has a chance to get hatch earlier.

Even if the hooked survivor purposely hits all their hook skill checks, it still completely removes “slugging for the 4k”.

mooasis · July 15, 2025

@Coffeecrashing said:
If there are only two survivors left, and one of the survivors gets placed in the dying state (slugged), then auto-teleport the slugged survivor to a random hook. And allow that hooked survivor to miss 2 skill checks, to sacrifice themselves, so the last survivor has a chance to get hatch earlier.
Even if the hooked survivor purposely hits all their hook skill checks, it still completely removes “slugging for the 4k”.

the problem with 4k slugging isnt with the act of slugging itself (whether or not slugging is inherently problematic is a different discussion), its that in the 1v2 it leaves no options or reason for the survivor to continue interacting with the killer or their teammate. slugging with 3 or 4 survivors alive still has plenty of ways and incentive for both sides to interact and prolong/finish the game
in a 1v2 the only correct decision is to let your teammate die if theyre caught, auto-hooking doesnt make that any more of an engaging experience

PetTheDoggo · July 15, 2025

Ok, how are we going to help killer in losing scenerio? Survivors can't start opening any gate until survivor is killed?

Coffeecrashing · July 15, 2025

@mooasis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964899#Comment_3964899
the problem with 4k slugging isnt with the act of slugging itself (whether or not slugging is inherently problematic is a different discussion), its that in the 1v2 it leaves no options or reason for the survivor to continue interacting with the killer or their teammate. slugging with 3 or 4 survivors alive still has plenty of ways and incentive for both sides to interact and prolong/finish the game
in a 1v2 the only correct decision is to let your teammate die if theyre caught, auto-hooking doesnt make that any more of an engaging experience

You’re basically suggesting that survivors deserve a chance for 2 escapes to happen in the same match, even if the survivors repaired 0 generators that game.

mooasis · July 16, 2025

@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964993#Comment_3964993
You’re basically suggesting that survivors deserve a chance for 2 escapes to happen in the same match, even if the survivors repaired 0 generators that game.

for the sake of more engaging and worthwhile gameplay, yes. like i already said in the main post this isnt about kill rate or balancing. the killer would still get 3 kills in this situation most of the time anyway, especially if they had 2 survivors dead at 5 gens

Coffeecrashing · July 17, 2025

If the survivors were doing extremely well, and the game is almost over, and the killer hasn't sacrificed anyone… should there be a game mechanic that gives the killer a chance at sacrificing two of the survivors?

mooasis · July 17, 2025

you're deflecting from the actual point im trying to make: 1v2 is immensely boring and uninteresting for both sides. when survivors are doing well both sides still have interesting gameplay decisions to make (assuming the map and matchmaking aren't abhorrently one-sided, which are separate issues of map design and how mmr is calculated)

soum · July 17, 2025

Im on board with the whole "1v2" setting being an awful matchup for both sides because it is, its as you said, either slug for the 4k and pray you find the stealthing survivor or just take the 3rd hook and gamble on hatch which ultimatel feels awful to have to do. With the exit gate being powered as mentioned it eliminates the awful rng of racing to be the first to find the hatch as opposed to encouraging interactive gameplay where you still feel like you can have an impact in a 1v2.

There's never going to be a solution for the negative feeling that a hatch escape / alternative to a hatch escape is going to give thats just part of how the game is, that does not mean you cannot make the gameplay at least feel engaging by introducing a new mechanic designed to keep the match from going stale as soon as the 1v3 scenario is over.

At the very least it wouldnt hurt to add a statistic to the end screen that would visually show what took / gained you mmr and have the additional gate exits be explicitly stated as "Neutral" aka no mmr loss, that way the usual 2k / 2out wont feel as bland as it does currently since youll see the positives vs the negatives.

Great idea honestly, would love to see a ptb at least try it out.

Change objectives in 1v2 for more interesting gameplay

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