TheSubstitute
TheSubstitute
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Based on a group of 75 games I took data for:
1. Ghostface (10 games)
2. Huntress (8)
3. Tie between Shape and Wesker (5 each)
4. Tie between Deathslinger, Doctor, Legion and Wraith (4 each)
5. Tie between Oni and Artist (3 each)
6. Tie between Nurse, Blight, Bubba, Demogorgon, Hag, Nemesis, Pig, Trapper and Trickster (2 each)
Why so many stealth Killers? No idea.
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Unless this was changed and I'm not aware of it, if you pair it with Object Of Obsession both you and the Killer see each others auras
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His steering is terrible and needs to be less difficult.
The roar and chainsaw hurts my ears and is pointless to have. I don't have an issue with the volume of Bubba's chainsaw so I have no idea why Billy is so different.
Billy requires a huge time investment to get decent with when the same time investment could be used with many other Killers for better results.
That said, Billy could be fun with a more generous turn rate and a lowered volume on the chainsaw.
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Renewal or Inner Strength? Both are general and counter the entire build. Both are also useful and solid perks all around.
Resurgence would help and Reactive Healing might actually be useful in this case.
If not just do gens and pretend you're against a more mobile Plague without any gen slowdowns.
I'm glad there are actually two Killers now that can use terror radius perks.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197234#Comment_3197234
It definitely worked well. Particularly combined with Pain Resonance. I only won 1 of the 3 games I used the build in, but that was more me not being that good with Artist. Third game I hit my stride, made better use of crows (even got some loop snipes) and got a 3k w/ hatch escape.
My other big issue was them booning over Ruin, which makes me want to try Thrill of the Hunt as perk #4.
I like the idea of Thrill of the Hunt as well since any interruption from crows throws the cleansing timer back to zero.
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The other thing survivors with no or one hook states can do, if they see someone being tunneled, is stay between the Killer and the person being tunneled. Sometimes you can't do it because you're out of position but, if your team drops to three people and you could have delayed that by being hooked once or twice, and you didn't do anything then you played a large part in your own loss.
If 5 gens don't get done it doesn't matter if you haven't been hooked or got hooked twice, you still die on your next hook. The longer four survivors are in the game, the better the chance 5 gens get done and survivors last longer if hooks are spread around either by the Killer choosing to do so or a survivor literally running between the Killer and preventing the Killer from getting to the tunneled survivor.
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No, you just got a salty person and, as you said, the easiest counter was just going to a different gen then what you were expecting. Unless, of course, it was a 3 gen situation but in that case all that happened was the survivors had already lost on the macro strategy level and the micro strategy level was just catching up. Still not controversial at all.
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You could count to nine and go in a different direction after. You could also just go to a gen that's right in the middle of a three gen (which will not be what you spawn by most times) and a good habit to get into to as opposed to just flocking to the nearest gen.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347430/let-s-be-real-with-hex-ruin
I actually used it without Pentimento. On Artist no less. It occurred to me the Ruin/Surveillance combo might be particularly effective on her.
I've also been thinking off and on about a meme build for Pig centered on getting Ruin to deactivate via head pop.
I used Ruin/Surveillance on Artist as well. It's nice. It gives a lot of information especially in the early game. I send crows at the totem every so often when I run this just to keep it up longer.
I've also used it on Nemesis since if a zombie chases a survivor off a gen it gives me pretty good information as well.
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@drakolyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196856#Comment_3196856
Meh, after killer buffs camping isnt that punishing anymore and most of the time leads to 2k's or more.
This argument may be valid against SWF's, which are less than 5% and are in high MMR, which are in the less % of the killer spectrum.
I'm solo and quite a few campers in my most recent games got away with 1K or less. I do want to see Reassurance buffed as I think camping hurts lower MMR a lot and is unhealthy for the game but, at least in mid MMR, camping can help but is not a guaranteed 2K.
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@shiroo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196374#Comment_3196374
You lost me at above and beyond in being nice.
Like if a killer cannot find any survivors anywhere other than around the hook then they should probably rethink their life choices.
On top of that...camping (aside from EGC) is nowhere near an efficient way of playing. Gens will pop if all you do is hover around the hook.
and if played properly, a camper shouldn't get away with more that 1k.
So to sum up, aside from EGC when a killer just wants to secure a kill,
camping hooks is nothing but being an a...s and ruining the game for one person for no reason whatsoever because by definition this strategy won't win you the game.
Then you're not being rational or even attempting to consider anything outside your own enjoyment. If the Killer sees a survivor going for an unhook they have found a survivor. That's not camping. The Killer is forcing a hook trade. If the hooked survivor dies on hook that's the fault of the other survivor for either not being willing to hook trade, not leading the Killer away so a third survivor can unhook or not waiting for the Killer to leave before unhooking.
If the Killer doesn't see a survivor around but still hangs around the hook that is camping.
So, if the Killer sees someone going for a rescue and allows it thus giving the survivors time to reset and losing pressure how is that not being nice? The Killer is actively choosing to give the survivors more of a chance to escape. That sounds pretty nice to me.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196903#Comment_3196903
You can choose the videos you post, you can't choose the matches you get when streaming, that's the point.
It's pretty obvious from my videos I didn't pick and choose. The pips are consistent and I listed 75 of them in my data sheet. There were two videos I lost since I'm not a streamer or YouTuber and have no intention of being but since all the games are from Sept 13th to 18th and I went up a grade you'll have to either take my word they were similar or examine whether or not going up a level in a grade but somehow spectacularly failing makes any sense. As well, It's a short time period in terms of days and I do have a job so I can't spend all my time playing.
One I did get to put on my Excel sheet before I lost it but it was 3/8 escapes so it would make no sense to not show the video but yet record the data. The other was a strong build and I did well but didn't record anything so I didn't include it in the data but it would have slightly increased my escape rate.
I don't expect more than a very small handful of people would want to see any of my videos but I included them and wrote down the title and start time of each match and I listed them on the data sheet (which I thought more people would actually want to see). The links to each video are in the thread as well with the build and my escape rate for each game session. I also listed them in chronological order so you can see the progression from Ash IV to Iri IV by following the pips and game.
With all that in mind, does it seem like I selectively edited which games I would post?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196167#Comment_3196167
I wish people showed them streaming instead of posting just text or end screenscreenshots, or edited videos. I'd really like to see them escape that much in solo q on stream
The videos I posted aren't edited. There are games where I get squashed, games where I make embarrassing mistakes, etc. They're also done in continuous format for each session so you see me changing Tome challenges, etc and games I lose followed by games I win in.
That was my escape rate. I'm unsure if you were attempting to say mine were edited. I'm hoping not because, if you did, that sounds a lot more like you're just shutting yourself off to any opposing viewpoints and ignoring anything that doesn't suit your narrative.
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@Ciabe said:
Because people don't seem to understand how easy it is to produce a 39% global escape rate while at the same time having terrible escape rates at lower mmr tiers here is some example data of the kind I would love to see from BHVR.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9FNAWJB4I7UD/exampledist1-jpg.jpg
In this case, look how easy it is to get a global 39% rate while having vastly different escape rates for different mmr groups. This does not indicate a healthy balance and 39% hides a very ugly reality.
Now that first example is assuming equal play rates. As no surprise to anyone, pros play a lot more than beginners.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4QKKXNIPSQKV/exampledist2-jpg.jpg
Now in this case I'm assuming the top 10% of players play up to 5 times (2nd top tier playing 4 times as much) as many games as the bottom 25% of players (big assumption on my part although conservative I suspect). I have also towned WAY back the escape rates on the upper end, yet I still end up with just over the 39% global escape rate they are reporting. If we had kept my first assumptions on the top tier escape rates that would require even worse escape rates for the bottom tiers to reach the 39% when weight for game frequency.
My ultimate point is that reporting a 39% escape rate is masking a huge issue in the lower 50% of survivors. Public data on the lower 50% of players is non existent outside our own records. High tier play stats is more accessible and wecan weigh in the smaller population size into the data.
Yes, my data is all hypothesis. I'm making a point that we need more data from BHVR because what they have provided is a extremely misleading and deceptive in attempt to mask a severe balance issue for a large percentage of the player base.
That's interesting but is still completely hypothetical. If there is an issue with the lower skill levels what would you suggest to fix it?
Personally, I think Reassurance needs a buff as the skill floor difference between camping and countering camping is quite high and survivors need either icons or a basekit Kindred type of effect.
What would you suggest?
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What is your definition of camping? I call it camping if the Killer doesn't leave the vincinity of the hook even if no survivors are around.
Some people call it camping if the Killer doesn't leave if they do see a survivor. I don't. Why would or should a Killer leave? The Killer wants to find another survivor and they found one. If the Killer leaves they're going above and beyond in being nice.
Some call it camping if the Killer returns once the Killer hears the loud noise notification. I don't; if the Killer hasn't found another survivor why not go to where they know one is.
Or, if the Killer has a three gen, some people are upset by proxy camping. I'm not; if the Killer moves too far away from the 3 gen they lose a potentially winnable game. They'll go to the closest hook to hook and patrol the gens. That can be called camping but is perfectly understandable.
Same applies to camping after gens are powered. If the Killer moves away they're more interested in BP than securing a kill. If the Killer does want to secure a kill they pretty much have to stick around. Once again, completely understandable.
So, what happened and what's your definition of camping?
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I love OTR. I doesn't leave my loadout on any build. I've also found that when being tunneled Killers quite often abandon chase when they hit someone who's obviously OTR. The silencing of pain noises helps as well.
Sometimes, I do run both OTR and DS but my DS timer runs out most times before I can take advantage of it.
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@Ciabe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196011#Comment_3196011
...What? Ideally, all mmr ranges should average 50% imo if the game was well balanced. However, I don't think that will ever occur. Realistically, the best you could probably ever hope for, even then remote, would be 40% to 60% survival rates for different mmrs. It might be survivor sided at high mmr, but that is the issue/point of this thread. BHVR won't post that data because it likely is very ugly. Imagine the uproar if BHVR posted that high MMR survivors had 70% and low mmr survivors got 15%? Killers would be ballistic along with survivors.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196028#Comment_3196028
If what BHVR posted is accurate, Solo vs SWF really doesn't matter much. Someone posted the BHVR quotes. The escape rate difference between SWF and solo at same mmr is within a couple percents. Now there is a lot that could be going on there to make those statistics lie as well, but not a topic I'm trying to explore here.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196044#Comment_3196044
I suspect your first few games you were in the kiddie pool still. They usually group brand spanking new players (killers and survivors) before dropping them into the mmr pool. I don't know what the cut off is for this game.
The problem with the chart is an ELO mmr match making system gets long queue times if the mmr distributions don't match up forcing them to loosen match making criteria. If all the killers are lumped together at high mmr ratings, it can be hard to accurately judge weakest from mediocre killers. Most games there is just one pool (ie call of duty there is only 1 player type), but this has killer and survivor pools. So they have to pick from each, you want those curves to at least be similar shapes to match easily between.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196062#Comment_3196062
Statistics can have plenty of meaning. Modern medicine depends entirely on proving the effectiveness of treatments through statistical measurement for instance. Statistics are used throughout all of engineering. They can also be used to distort and lie. BHVR wouldn't have released this unless they were trying to appease people that everything is "fine".
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196233#Comment_3196233
I haven't dug it up, but I remember BHVR posting showing Ruin was pretty dominate at all tiers of MMR. I don't recall DMS usage rate off top of my head.
Uhm, matchmaking isn't magic. It can't take unbalanced mechanics and make it balanced, unless you are ok whichever side is favored at high mmr having insanely long queue times. BHVR instead throws lower mmr players into the meat grinder to keep those high mmr players with someone to play against. IE: Imagine one side is far weaker than the other, mmr could balance for a while by matching pro players on weak side vs weak players on the strong side, but that is going to cause issues in the long term (see my graphic in the first post).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196240#Comment_3196240
If you ran up to Iri 1 with meme builds, you are not mid level. You are at least good if not very good. I would expect 50-60% of the player base sees well under 35% escape rate and it is skewed high to 39% by pro players that play tons. I spent 300 games trying to push survivor to Iridescent 1 last season and never made it past gold 4, about 20% swf and 80% soloq. Before the 6.x patches I got Iridecsent 1 for 3 seasons in a row without much trouble.
I disagree but, honestly, I'm basing that on my opinion. If you would like to see what my games look like I have a list of my games and builds from Sept 13 to 18th here. If you do have the time to look at it and say why you think our perspectives are different it might give me a better understanding of your argument.
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Specific Killers need buffs. I'd like to see solo queue icons at the same time (or first) so the effectiveness of the changes can be accurately measured.
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@Ciabe said:
Edit: This is NOT a discussion of SoloQ vs SWF. Enough other threads arguing that.
Statistics are the best liars.
I don't doubt 39% is the actual mean of escape rate for all survivors from all matches globally. However, that is masking a very big lie through omission with selective statistical presentation. Pre Patch BHVR happily released perk usage rate by MMR tier to justify itself. Note how they did NOT break down escape rate by MMR this time. The reason is quite simple.
High MMR SWF survivors probably have an escape rate of 50-75% going off data I can find and I think most true high mmr killers would concur. Those high mmr survivors also play a lot of games. So you have a small subset of your playerbase, maybe 10-20% who play lots of games that are skewing the number higher to 39% (which already seems painfully low).
So this means our low and medium mmr survivors are likely seeing escape rates of 15-25%, 30% tops. My own data from just under 400 games since 6.x patch pegs it around 15-20% (yes I'm probably low tier mmr now) and I've seen similar data sets from others.
What we need is escape rate broken down into MMR ranges and SoloQ vs SWF. Would also be interesting to average every players individual escape rate, then take a global mean and median of all players. This would remove impact of a pro survivor playing 1000 games in a week vs casual playing 10 games in a week. If there is a huge difference between the mean and mode, that would heavily indicate stats being skewed by a few highly skilled survivors. Same thing is done in economics, looking at the average/mean income isn't helpful because you have a few outliers earning tens of millions of dollars while the median shows your more true "average".
I'm also unclear how they intend an elo based mmr system to function if they aren't aiming for a 50/50 win rate. Seems like they were really close to good pre patch with 47/53 (although even that was getting skewed by high escape rate survivors). If most of your survivor player base sees under 30% win rate and killers get over 70% win rate, your mmr distributions are going to look like two inverse curves. Fear my mspaint skills to see the issue. How are you going to make good matches when each player base is lumped together on each end? With two different pools you have to match between, you would ideally want them to be similar shapes. This is probably why high MMR killers had bad queue times early on before they widened the spread.
I don't think 39% is a lie. I'm a mid level survivor and my most recent run from Ash to Iri showed 45% but that was after also running meme builds fun for about 2/3 of it. That's higher than but within the ballpark of 39%.
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@FriendlyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195796#Comment_3195796
You're a spicy one.
Of course your whole argument falls apart in the face of the fact your "easy to pick up and oppressive" killer has the lowest kill rates in the game, and has for some time.
If she's so easy to play why do you suppose that's the case? And if your suggesting her bugfixes justify another nerf I honestly don't know what to say. Should they put the bugs back?
I don't know what Nurse is like at top MMR but she's fine at low and mid MMRs. My last two games against Nurse had zero kills and I think one Nurse only had one hook. There was at least one with NOED but it didn't help them at all.
Any discussions of Nurse being nerfed should be, in my opinion, constrained to top MMR and not negatively affect low to mid MMR as I can't see how those games were fun for those Nurse players.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196154#Comment_3196154
Or maybe their posts aren't so much "killer sided", but honest takes form people with a sense of both sides, and who understand the struggles of both sides*. I think it's a matter of perspective, but I don't think people who main one side or the other are really the best arbiters of what is a "killer sided" or "surv sided" opinion. A centrist position will always seem partisan when you are on one of the extremes.
I am having a good (not great) time in solo. Solo needs help more than ever, but it's not torture. I don't expect everyone else to feel how I feel (though I think many people who think solo is pure torture genuinely can't comprehend someone not feeling the same way), but I really think those who are just intransigent in their position that playing solo is worse than waterboarding are in an emotional, irrational state, and probably need to take a break.
*certainly there are killer mains pretending they play solo, but there are just as many surv mains pretending like they play killer, so I think that's a wash.
I do agree that some people may be being intransigent. Part of my motivation for doing my recordings was because when I said I was having fun in solo queue some people, none of whom are in this thread, tried to say I don't play solo queue. Now if they tell me that I don't play solo queue or that solo queue is intolerable for everyone I can ask them to look at the videos and tell me what is so intolerable about my games. The other motivation was to give an honest point of reference for people who wanted to see what the games of other people who are not streamers looked like.
I do know some people, even those whom I don't believe are exaggerating in the slightest, have said they're having issues so I agree an issue is there. Most feedback I see however is along the lines of Killers have it too easy, revert 6.1 or revert DH (one of which is not true and two of which would be mistakes).
I mean I did get squashed like a bug in some games but there are also some games in there where the Killer got 0 or 1 hook. That would not have been fun for the Killer and it would be dishonest to only consider the games where I was the bug and not the games where I was the windshield.
There are some things that could help solo queue but my position is also hyperbole doesn't help and a more balanced discussion would be better.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196151#Comment_3196151
The ones having a "good" time in solo q are always the ones with killer sided posts on the forums. Makes you think.
I just posted my solo queue games from Sept 13th to yesterday which brought me from Ash IV to Iri IV. My escape rate was 45% this run around with my meme builds having lower escape rates and my builds centered on SB, OTR and Deliverance having a 68% escape rate. 75 games were recorded and the data (and video links) summarized here
@TheSubstitute said:
AKA A semi-competent rise to Iri grade
I have no idea if anyone is interested or not but there is a lot of discussion on the forums about whether or not solo queue is playable or not. I'm in the camp that says solo queue feels fine. However, it's hard to know why someone says what they do unless you can see at times. As such, I made a list of 75 games and recorded them as well. I used both meme builds and serious builds as that's how I normally play.
My escape rate was 45.33% so a bit lower than what it feels like normally but still in the ballpark. An average of 3.85 gens were done per game (not all me obviously, this was by all survivors) before I either escaped or died.
Please keep in mind that I think, but have no way of verifying, that I'm mid MMR as a survivor. It felt a little bit rougher this month than others but part of that could have been that I rushed for Iri grade instead of taking my time as I normally do. I'm also not claiming that anyone else should feel their games are fine but a good question is why are they not fine? Expectations? MMR? Region? Strategies?
The list of the games is right here. It also has the video title and the start time in case anyone is interested. If you just want to see the raw data it's right here.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/X41QEFY9HMOA/dbd-stats.xlsx
If you want to see the videos keep in mind there's no editing as I've never shared public videos before. Also, I have some good plays but you will also see me make a lot of mistakes, panic at times, and completely misplay the situation. As I said, I'm not a streamer, I don't claim to be good and I consider myself a middling solo queue survivor. Realistically, so are the majority of players and if anyone does want to see a realistic view of what survivor looks like for me take a look.
I'll post a link to the first game I was recording and you can just check the others from there. The build descriptions are in the info section of the videos and they are the only public videos I have so they should be easy to check from just clicking on the icon for my YouTube.
(1553) Dead by Daylight Stop the 3 gen! - YouTube
If somebody finds it useful it'll have been worth the effort but, if not, it was entertaining to do anyway.
I'm having a good time in solo queue. I do think that two priorities for BHVR should be icons for solos and buffing Reassurance as I think that would help out the people not having fun and just because I'm having fun doesn't mean that others are and all reasonable attempts should be made to ensure everyone has fun.
How does that qualify as a killer sided post?
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193059#Comment_3193059
How is saying solo q isnt ok right now "over exaggerating"?
Because it's stating that as a generalization for all people. It's more accurate to say some people aren't having fun and then try to figure out why some are having a good time and some aren't.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195466#Comment_3195466
Appreciate the advice, I am doing most of this already, i run windows a lot and can loop a fair few killers for a long time. Made a wesker ragequit once on rpd when i gave him the run around for long enough that the other survs finished 3 gens lol. And i definitely make an effort to try and avoid 3 gens. But yh i often see teammates making really bad unhooks and can't do anything about it.
Like i remember one i messaged and asked why he unhooked my mate under the killers nose when they were on two hooks and being clearly tunneled. His response was rhat he was running borrowed time. Which would helpnif the killer hadn't been tunneling my friend hard, he just chased him and had him hooked and killed in less than 20 secs.
I think my mmr just needs to settle but it's difficult when my teammates are such potatoes a lot pf the time. They either leave people to die on hook or just swarm hook the second killer sticks someone on there and they end up with 3/4 rapidly. It drags my performance down and i get hardly any escapes. Most of those end up being hatch games and I'd rather not run left behind on the regular. Plus factor in the amount of time I die to endgame perks like ######### NOED. My mmr is gonna be low for a while. But i haveuch better luck in swf games withy mates.
Yeah, it's hard until you get good teammates. With my tips I think they help me escape more than playing selfishly would but, to be fair, I would play altruisticly anyway even if it got me killed more.
As an example, in a 4E against Sadako on Temple of Purgation today, at endgame someone was being camped so I went for the save but had to take a hit, another survivor bodyblocked for me and took a hit so I didn't go down and then a third survivor took a hit so we could all get out. I see that sometimes in solo queue and those games are usually a 3 or 4E.
Then, of course, I'll have games as well where I'm being hard tunneled and nobody will take a hit let alone hook trade for me. Those are typically 3 or 4Ks. C'est la vie.
If you want to get out of low MMR quickly I'd say use your SWF. Coordination and teamwork will make a big difference. I'm hoping BHVR buffs Reassurance because I can normally tell which Killers got to mid-MMR by camping, tunneling and NOED because they got 3 spread out hooks or less typically and try to use those strategies.
In my opinion, camping is too low skill floor in comparison to rescuing camped survivors and that's short term pain for the survivor and long term pain for the Killer who then eventually hits an MMR bracket where their chase skills are too underdeveloped to be able to camp effectively. I hope a buffed Reassurance would force low MMR Killers to chase more which, in the long term, would be more fun for everyone.
Thanks for reading my stuff and I hope that's helpful.
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Here's a list of builds I used and their escape rates. Keep in mind this is a limited sample of games. My strongest build was anything built around a chassis of OTR, Deliverance, and Sprint Burst. (13/19 escapes or 68.4% escape rate) for whatever that's worth. That escape rate is, in my opinion, that high because I also play a lot of meme and fun builds because they're, well, fun so that leads to more deaths which would lower my MMR.
Anyway, the builds are:
Stop the 3 gen: OTR, Prove Thyself, Situational Awareness, Deja Vu (3/3 games, 100%) (link above)
Secret Santa: OTR, Appraisal, Plunderer's Instinct, Ace In the Hole (0/2 games, 0%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Secret Santa - YouTube
Everyone Out!: OTR, Borrowed Time, No One Left Behind, Unbreakable (3/8 games, 37.5%) (I think I lost the video, sorry)
Protect the Tap (Parts I and II): OTR, Wiretap, Repressed Alliance, Lithe (2/5 games, 40%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Protect the Tap! - YouTube
(1553) Dead by Daylight Protect The Tap Part 2 - YouTube
And A Blind For You: OTR, Blast Mine, Flashbang, Residual Manifest (0/1 games, 0%) (1553) Dead by Daylight And A Blind For You - YouTube
Can't Keep Me Down: OTR, Unbreakable, Soul Guard, Lithe (2/3 games, 66%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Can't Keep Me Down - YouTube
Taking Things Seriously: OTR, Deliverance, Sprint Burst, Reassurance (4/5 games, 80%) (1553) Dead by Daylight TakingThings Seriously - YouTube
I Suck At Sabo: OTR, Saboteur, Breakout, Empathy (1/4 games, 25%) (1553) Dead by Daylight I Suck At Sabo - YouTube
Slightly Better Sabo: OTR, Saboteur, Distortion, Dead Hard (0/1 games, 0%), (1553) Dead by Daylight Slightly Better Sabo - YouTube
Pick You Up: OTR, For the People, WGLF, Sprint Burst (2/5 games, 40%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Pick You Up - YouTube
I See You!: OTR, Bond, Kindred, Open Handed (2/5 games, 40%) (1553) Dead by Daylight I See You! - YouTube
Heals Go Brrrr: OTR, Botany Knowledge, We'll Make It, Self Care (1/5 games, 20%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Heals Go Brrr - YouTube
Haddie Kaur Totem Hunter: OTR, Overzealous, Inner Healing, Either Spine Chill or Detective's Hunch (3/6 games, 50%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Haddie Kaur Totem Hunter - YouTube
Laurie Sort Of Kind Of Tries to Loop: OTR, Deliverance, Sprint Burst, Decisive Strike (4/5 games, 80%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Laurie Sort of Kind of Loops - YouTube
Failing It As Meg, The Revenge of the Meg: OTR, Deliverance, Sprint Burst, Adrenaline (5/9 games, 56%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Failing It As Meg - YouTube (1553) Dead by Daylight The Revenge of the Meg - YouTube
Zarina Pips Up: OTR, For The People, Resilience, Sprint Burst (2/6 games, 33%) (1553) Dead by Daylight Zarina Pips Up - YouTube
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@BrokenSouI said:
Good stuff. I'll have to go back to Saturday and watch mine. I escaped more then half
Thank you!
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@crogers271 said:
I admire that you took the time to do the data.
You might also want to include your region and normal time of play.
Also (I only looked at your first video), did you watch the full matches play out or does the data only go until you die.
Here are some other interesting figures pulled from your data if I'm following it correctly:
Escape when Hatch Enabled: 11.76%
Killer Domination (3 or less gens done): 33.33%
Squash Game (2 gens or less done): 20%
Odds that 5 gens would get finished and you would not survive: 13.33%
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If you ever do something like this again I'd encourage you to add a column to separate out hatch escapes and what the total number of survivor who escaped was.
Thank you, I will consider that. I did not stick around to see if my teammates got out on most games but I can consider that if I do this again. My region is North America West. I didn't record hatch escapes separately but that would make things easier. It's not as convenient but if you see I escaped but less than 5 gens were done I got a hatch escape.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
I wish i had a solo q escape rate of 45% lol 80% of my solo q games end in 4ks. And we barely ever get gens finished. Guess having high skill mmr is nice. I've been playing for about a month and my team mates on solo q are usually pretty bad. Hooking as soon as possible before killer moves away, not doing gens and can't hold a chase for more than 20 seconds.
Thank you but I don't consider myself high skill; I can make some pretty embarrassing mistakes. If you watch game 18 against Pig you'll see me totally misplay myself multiple times. The one I titled Failing It As Meg sees me lose a lot with a strong build but The Revenge Of The Meg sees me look like I know what I'm doing. I also stop at pallets and get my bearings as I suck at navigating while looking behind me.
I understand how you feel though. I got slaughtered non-stop at the beginning especially since I didn't use exhaustion perks as I wanted to learn how to run chases without exhaustion perks first. Short term pain for long term gain if you can stand it.
If you don't mind me making a suggestion I think good perks are Deja Vu, Windows of Opportunity and Kindred especially when you're learning map layout and how to rescue a camped teammate.
Sorry if this is so long but, if you're interested, here are some tips that I think helped me.
(A) From my videos, you'll see I don't work on the first gen I see. This is because I know the most common gen layouts and I want to first break the potential 3 gen while resources are plenty.
(B) I go to a different gen than my teammates unless they're on a potential 3 gen generator, one of us has Prove Thyself or there are only 2 survivors left. That way I avoid Discordance and survivors working on multiple gens at the same time makes it exponentially harder for the Killer.
(C) Hook states are a resource. If I see a teammate on death hook in a bad position and I can spare a hook state I'll body block for them until I go down. It doesn't matter if I haven't gone down or if I have two hook states if I'm the last survivor; the next hook kills me anyway. If I can keep a teammate in the game by going on hook all of our chances to escape increases.
(D) I do everything I can without throwing the game to not let my teammates drop two hook states from one down up to and including hook trading. My chances of escape rise the longer my teammates stay in the game as well.
(E) Similarly, as soon as two people go down I stop what I'm doing to go for a rescue. If I'm unsure if it's unsafe to hook up I look for the Killer and set up my game plan. If I see from the aura the Killer has picked up the second person then the first person is good to be unhooked (or the Killer has to drop the second and let them wiggle free later).
If I am one of the two people downed and I'm not on hook I crawl away so the Killer has to give an opportunity for the first to be rescued by hooking me or let me be eventually picked up.
(F) I watch icons. Do I see a healthy teammate has gone to injured or the tentacles are waving around the Obsession? The Killer is occupied and I don't need to worry about stealth. Is someone on hook and someone just got injured? The unhooker might need help. Either that or the Killer is chasing someone else and it's safe to unhook.
Also, if I don't have Kindred, I wait to see if someone gets unhooked by watching their icon. If it drops too much I go for the unhook to prevent my teammate from dropping two hook states.
(G) DbD is time attrition. Whichever side is more efficient at doing their objectives win. Am I in a chase, healing or unhooking? No? Okay, I'm on a gen. Is someone about to drop two hook states? Forget waiting, I go for the hook trade.
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Meg's and Laurie's were like that today as well.
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@JusticeForVictor
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@Sava18 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190697#Comment_3190697
League of legends.
League of Legends is the exception that proves the rule. It did manage to become an e-sport and a game that can derive revenue through spectators as opposed to participation.
The track record of those games that tried to imitate it shows how much that is a terrible idea overall. More to the point, do you think DbD would able to achieve top esports status?
If not, balance for a game that derives revenue from participation is best if all spectrums are considered and fairer to the community.
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@AJStyIez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190697#Comment_3190697
No, I'm definitely not exaggerating and you're factually incorrect. Many PvP and MMORPG games are infamous for exclusively catering towards the lowest percentile players because that's where their bread and butter is. Those games' studios appreciate the veterans who continue to play the game even with all the flaws, however they don't take much care of them because that's not their targeted demographic. They don't expect the top-end players to stay invested once they discover the formula and they don't really feel hurt if they leave because for every disgruntled vet that quits there's 100 casuals coming to take their place on the cogwheel
They've already tapped those players' pockets and got them invested in their games' time-sink. Once those players reach the 99th percentile they're often put as the last priority financially and socially in favor of the casuals that don't care to go past the entry barriers. They're content with simply playing the game, they don't care about balance or mechanics and most importantly they won't hold the creators accountable with feedback
Also, re-read what I said. I specifically said they don't have to cater only towards the top-end just like I said they shouldn't cater the majority of their product to the bottom if they actually want a healthy community
I don't think you're arguing against the same point I'm making. My statement is that if video game studios cater to the very top they will lose players and the game may become financially unsustainable. This is factually true
I also stated that, in order to keep the community as a whole happier, it's better to balance as best as you can for all spectrums of skill. This is also factually true.
It does sound like we both agree that all spectrums of skill should have their fun considered. Where we disagree is you view studios as solely milking for money and not caring about their top percentage. My point of view is that while this does happen it is not as prevalent as you suggest nor is BHVR only considering one single echelon of skill. However, BHVR is also considering the top echelon, along with all the others, when they make decisions.
Does that sound like an accurate summary of our positions to you?
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@AJStyIez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190047#Comment_3190047
You're right, you just balance it around the 1st percentile of terrible or casual players so you can continue milking them for resources until they reach the higher percentiles and realize what's going on. Then, the game suffers from endless controversy until the game dies anyway, just like the other game /s
At the end of the day this is about whether you want to maximize profits vs keeping every bracket of the community satisfied regardless of financial gain
If you care about the community you WILL attempt to balance for the top % at some point, not abandon them. It doesn't have to exclusively cater to them but exclusively catering to the bottom of the barrel is also not a viable long-term strategy. The reason the July patch was created in the first place is because DBD didn't have a good retention rate either, the player count was falling
You're kind of exaggerating. No game caters to the bottom of the barrel as you call it and games that cater to the top fail.
If your revenue comes from participants (as in video games) as opposed to spectators (as in competitive sports) then you balance around all spectrums as much as is possible.
If you cater to the 'elite players' only you lose players and revenue possibly to the point your game becomes unsustainable and dies. People don't pay money to watch people play DbD on any more than a minor level; they pay to play DbD and will stop playing (and providing revenue) if their play is not fun enough to keep them interested.
That's how business and video games work. To keep all spectrums interested you consider all players.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190047#Comment_3190047
Yeah and there's also a casual game that balances to the lowest denominator and has an overwhelming number of advantages for the survivor team called VHS that has a sub 1 k player count at peak hours AND with a brand new DLC drop.
The issues that would have fixed VHS for Monster players were dismissed during beta on the basis that Monster was balanced at high MMR and all people needed in Monster was to overcome the high learning curve.
VHS proves my point exactly.
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@Marik1987 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/346847/61-kill-rate
I would love to see Killrates per killer and for each MMR-Region.
What is the killrate in TOP-MMR for Nurse compared to Lowest-MMR. What is it on Sadako or Freddy or the other D-Tiers? Are they even picked once a month in Top-Level?
U balance a game around the Elite-Players, because they know exactly what to do (on both sides).
You don't balance a video game around the elite players unless you want the game to die. Another asymmetrical game that was recently put in Early Access did that and it's abysmal player retention rate shows exactly why you don't.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3189719#Comment_3189719
Your point? I'm pretty sure they dont play both equally so.
My point is that I say solo queue is fine for me and I do play both sides equally as do many of the others saying its fine for them. Where I find many people run into what I consider to be a mistake is that they generalize and discount what other people are experiencing without knowing what they are experiencing.
As an example, solo queue is fine for me but that only applies to myself. It's obvious other people such as yourself and @Pulsar are having issues and I think it would be better to find out or discuss why. Is it expectations? Is it different MMRs or regions? Is it playstyle or load-outs? Is it some of the changes?
It's very easy to try to discount other people's experiences by saying but they're an X main but, while many are very self-interested in their suggestions, that doesn't mean that other people don't understand the other side. As an example, Otz, Dowsey, Scott Jund, and CoconutRTS are Killer mains but they understand and play survivor better than over 95% of survivor mains.
Personally, I find the 39% escape rate concerning. However, we still don't have full knowledge of what that entails. How much of that is from beginning players? Is the escape rate higher than 60% at high MMR? I'd like to see Reassurance buffed myself to one minute duration and the range doubled at least as the skill floor for camping is low and the skill floor to counter camping is at least medium so I think that would help.
But, the only thing that we do know is that there is a wide variety of experiences being reported. For myself, I think it's more productive to consider why rather than have a narrative of it's all good or it's all bad and then discount anyone who doesn't fit my narrative.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3189560#Comment_3189560
Yea, the people doing "fine" in solo q, you mean the people on here with their post history showing they're killer mains? Those are doing just fine I'm sure
Playing both sides relatively equally doesn't make you a main on either side.
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Those are the two I still have left to go. I'm finding Skilled Huntress hard since there are so many objects that get in the way. I'm escaping more now from RPD so I'm not too terribly worried about that but I think I'll need to play Coldwind offerings to speed up Huntress.
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@Veinslay said:
Yeah man get that generator done while your entire team is on the floor
I'm glad someone pointed out the glaring problem with that picture being used to make an argument survivor is weak.
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Equip Kindred with Open Handed and see how much info 32 meters of aura reading on the Killer gives you. Then imagine if the Survivors could see the Killer coming from 32 meters away.
I don't think it needs anymore justification than that to not combine.
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The only thing that an endgame build guarantees is that all 5 gens will be done unless the Killer can kill you perkless.
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Survivor chase perks are fine. I wouldn't have said that with the abomination that pre 6.1 Dead Hard was but I don't see anything to complain about now including post 6.1 Dead Hard.
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@Ecko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3185131#Comment_3185131
You almost remembered it correctly. Thats the achievement I'm talking about Power Moves. Equip 0 perks, repair a full gen and escape (8 times)
Left For Dead is the one @Bot_Salvo88 is talking about. With Power Moves, any number of survivors can survive.
With Left For Dead, as the only living survivor, you have to finish the last generator while every other survivor is dead and leave through the exit gate specifically; no Hatch allowed.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
The spawns are low-key bad. I like fixing them by running the perk. You will never convince me it does not change the spawns. I know for a fact survivors spawn near me when I do not run it, and I run it religiously and they have literally NEVER spawned anyone near me while lethal is up. I already know their secrets and I will not let that type of rng screw my early game. Hell nah.
I think you're correct. I have spawned in close to a Killer on multiple occasions and have caught survivors close to me when playing Killer but only when I didn't equip Lethal Pursuer.
I have to have played dozens, if not over a hundred games, with Lethal Pursuer over approximately the last year and I've never seen a survivor spawn close to me as Killer.
For that matter, part of the reason why I normally only two hook survivors and let them go when a survivor plays blood party streamers is because the first time I played streamers as a survivor I turned a corner and literally walked into the Killer who proceeded to down me and facecamp me in the first 30 seconds or so of a game.
But a survivor spawning near me when I have Lethal Pursuer up? Never seen it happen.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3184523#Comment_3184523
People always say "so and so isn't as bad as people say it is." for everything. Solo survivor is truly as bad as people say.
I disagree.
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If you haven't done Hatch An Escape from Tome 2 yet I have some really bad news for you
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I see it on the Killers I play more that have higher MMR than my other Killers that I don't play as much (not that I could guess my MMR but the survivors are more efficient and loop better when I play the Killers I'm better at). So, I'm just guessing the usage rate increases the higher in MMR you go.
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It doesn't matter who started it since someone inevitably will no matter what. There is change but the cycle will always be the same.
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@TeleportingTurkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3183404#Comment_3183404
because unlike those things self care won't run out of charges
Built to Last and a yellow or purple medkit with charge add-ons is normally far more heals than you'll ever need and have the advantage of healing your teammates faster as well.
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I'd like it better if it activated after hook states, had a one time Mori effect and told the survivor they were cursed or something like that.
That way the survivors have an incentive to cleanse dull totems. That would give the Killer some slowdown.
Currently, there's no reason to actually cleanse dulls other than Boldness BP. Other than that and Tome challenges, it's a waste of time to cleanse dull totems instead of gens.
NOED was always a mediocre perk really only useful for new Killers to jump their MMR to where they only get 2 or 3 hooks, if that, a game and watch NOED get cleansed in less than a minute. A rework similar to what I mentioned would help reduce Killers getting thrown into a higher MMR than they should have and give an actual reason to cleanse dulls.