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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801574#Comment_2801574
Thats the same as saying survivors need to make an effort to PROGRESS gens and not just stopping them from regressing.
hit = gen tap
down = progress
kill = gen done
This isn't difficult to grasp.
Yes, that actually is true. If they just tap and go back to hiding (especially to avoid AFK crows), that is hostage holding.
@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801561#Comment_2801561
Oh wait, so killers can't commit to chase because that's pretty much "losing on purpose"? hmmm strange.
I mean, the BHVR quote I posted said that Killer is fault if they are only bothering to down Survivor if they stand still, so...
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801536#Comment_2801536
You don't have to be committing, you only have to be showing that you are making an effort to hit survivors, even if they are not letting you. If the survivors are leaving the gens after you run toward them, they are the ones who are not committing.
again, you're just completely ignoring the hypocrisy in your own argument. An attrition battle in a 3 gen scenario is neither side's fault as long as they're actually trying.
You have to show that you are making an effort to DOWN Survivors. If they are hitting them once, letting them go, then going back, they are not committing. No hypocrisy here. :P
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801548#Comment_2801548
Even in the Peanits post you quoted he explicitly said it would be bannable because it was being done to grief, not to win.
"If they are making no attempt to down anyone and purely stalling the game by keeping everyone in madness 3, only downing and slugging them if they refuse to move, that would be considered holding the game hostage."
It straight-up says that the Doctor is holding the game hostage.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801548#Comment_2801548
This is true because, if survivor gave up and just stops moving, killers will kill them, results in end of the game.
Whether through winning or losing, game will end.
Losing on purpose is a reportable offense, so no. :p
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801532#Comment_2801532
And I said you’re wrong in that nobody has ever been banned or would be banned if they’re playing zone defense. You get banned for doing things to harrass and annoy like the Doctor situation, not for waiting for a mistake by the opponent.
The Doctor situation isn't reportable because it's harassing and annoying. It's reportable because it holds the game hostage.
@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801536#Comment_2801536
Even if survivors won't let killers to down them, they are trying to kill you by injuring you and defending you, thus not be considered holding game hostage.
That is very much not necessarily true if the Killer is letting you go consistently to stand guard at the 3-gen.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801509#Comment_2801509
If you are not committing to gens unless a killer leaves it than furthermore drawing the killer away from another gen that is being worked on by another survivor, you are explicitly going out of your way to not bring the game to a close and you are explicitly dragging the game on. which is explicitly the definition of holding the game hostage.
...see how silly that sounds?
You don't have to be committing; you only have to be showing that you are making an effort to do the gens, even if the Killer is not letting you. If the Killer is leaving you be after you run away, they are the ones who are not committing.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801518#Comment_2801518
Being in a potentially winning position unless the survivors take risks isn’t bannable.
I never said that it was. I said that not trying to down Survivors while also not allowing them to do gens is reportable.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801509#Comment_2801509
No, it’s not “holding the game hostage” because the survivors have the ability to try and split up and work the gen you’re not next to. There’s literally no hostage taking involved, the way out of that situation is in the survivor’s hands.
That very much depends on the 3-gen, Killer in question, and number of Survivors. It is absolutely possible to be in a position where you can reliably guard all three gens without Survivors being able to approach if you don't allow it.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801493#Comment_2801493
How am I leaving anything out context? He explicitly says guarding a 3 gen is only bannable “when it’s used to grief”, and his specific example is a Doctor who is going out of their way to never injure people? I’m not cherry picking anything he said. I’m going out of my way to include the entire context of that post.
Again, nobody has been or ever would be banned just for guarding a 3 gen if the survivors are too scared to do the gens. It’s never happened.
P.S. On a tangent, I do think DbD should have a timer in the background where if neither side manages to score any bloodpoints at all for, say, five to ten minutes then the game automatically goes into sudden death endgame collapse or something similar. This would avoid annoying stalemates like the one being described as well as things like two survivors both just hiding and hoping the other is found first or a killer bodyblocking the last survivor to prevent them from getting to an open hatch, etc.
If you are not leaving the gens unless a Survivor is approaching the gens and then furthermore pushing Survivors away when they try to get close to the gens, you are explictly going out of your way to not bring the game to a close and you are explicitly dragging the game on, which is explicitly the definition of holding the game hostage.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801481#Comment_2801481
It says it in the rest of that paragraph,
If they are making no attempt to down anyone and purely stalling the game by keeping everyone in madness 3, only downing and slugging them if they refuse to move, that would be considered holding the game hostage. We would need to see that they are doing this for a long time, though, not just a couple minutes. The 3 gen strat on its own is not bannable, it only become an issue when it's being used to grief instead of win
He’s not talking about guarding a 3 gen, he’s talking about specifically doing non-damaging actions which prevent the gens from being worked on at all simply for the sole purpose of dragging things out as long as possible.
Now you are the one leaving out context by intentionally using only parts of sentences to form something else other than what was said. The last sentence in full explicitly is about guarding a 3-gen.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801467#Comment_2801467
No, it refers to using a 3-gen in a hypothetical situation like the Doctor that was in the preceding statement where the killer is avoiding even trying to injure people at all and is preventing the gens from being completed in non-damaging ways. You can’t just take that one sentence out of the context of the rest of it.
Where does it say that in the part that I highlighted?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801457#Comment_2801457
No, it’s specifically talking about a situation involving a Doctor using Madness to make it impossible for survivors to work on gens at all and going out of their way to avoid injuring when possible.
The part that I highlighted does not say the word "Doctor" at all. The quote as a whole did refer to the Doctor because that was the topic at hand, but that portion of the quote referred to 3-gens in general.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801454#Comment_2801454
Which post are you talking about? If you’re talking about a post from someone saying “I got banned because I guarded a 3 gen” then yeah, that person is lying. If you’re talking about a post from a dev saying “we ban killers for guarding gens” then go ahead and find that post, because the one you linked from Peanits doesn’t say that.
It very much says in the part I quoted that you can get punished for guarding gens if you are not trying to down anyone.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801450#Comment_2801450
And you also posted what I said
Go ahead and post a link from a dev confirming a killer got banned for guarding gens. I’ll wait.
Again, nobody got banned for guarding gens.
If I actually find the post that I was referring to (something that I freely admit might not be possible if the mods decided to delete the thread due to it discussing bans), will you admit that you were wrong or will you accuse the post of lying?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801444#Comment_2801444
That is not at all what Peanits is saying. The situation in that post is a Doctor who isn’t even injuring survivors, they’re just shocking them over and over into Madness so they’re unable to work on gens at all. And it’s not even a real scenario in the first place, nobody got banned over it.
I explictly highlighted the part that said that 3-genning is not bannable unless you are not using it to try to win the game. That is a general stance, not one that specifically necessitates the Doctor.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801434#Comment_2801434
Go ahead and post a link from a dev confirming a killer got banned for guarding gens. I’ll wait.
Here:
@Peanits said:
If they are making no attempt to down anyone and purely stalling the game by keeping everyone in madness 3, only downing and slugging them if they refuse to move, that would be considered holding the game hostage. We would need to see that they are doing this for a long time, though, not just a couple minutes. The 3 gen strat on its own is not bannable, it only become an issue when it's being used to grief instead of win.
"The three gen strat on its own is not bannable, it only becomes an issue when it's being used to grief instead of win."
You can get punished for hostage holding if you are just trying to hold the gens without making any effort to down Survivors.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801414#Comment_2801414
I can guarantee if a poster said they were banned because they were guarding gens they’re lying.
See, I don't believe you actually can. The best you can do is not believe it.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801401#Comment_2801401
You won’t find that post because it never happened. No killer would ever be banned for defending the gens.
If survivors refuse to actually try and do the gens that’s their fault, not the killer’s. Killers aren’t holding the game hostage if the survivors are too afraid of being downed to do gens.
I have seen this post with my own eyes. I can't tell you for sure if the poster was being truthful or witholding info or anything, but I can promise you 100% that this thread existed.
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@SuzuKR said:
By the rules, survivors are expected to go and try to repair regardless, even if it will get them killed. It is literally their fault they are in that situation, and only hiding while refusing to attempt to repair is breaking two game rules: Keeping the game hostage, and refusal to participate in normal gameplay. This has been explicitly stated by BHVR before. The killer is not keeping the game hostage. Defending the gens is part of their job. If the survivors do not attempt to repair even if it would get them killed, they can be reported with video evidence.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/405247995047706624/917240972600029194/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/405247995047706624/917240991923179520/unknown.png
Only partially correct. Both sides are expected to progress the game. If the Killer is making zero effort to down people and is only pushing Survivors away from gens, they can very much be reported. I'd need to see if I can find the posts in question, but not only have I seen mods confirm this, but I've seen at least one thread of someone actively complaining that they got banned for playing "get them kids off mah lawn" with the gens and not trying to actually down Survivors.
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When I try that, my grab gets converted to a hit and everyone gets away. :/
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@UnluckyDucky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799181#Comment_2799181
I dont think you need 60k options because realistically, people are only gonna pick and play the currently most powerful powers. Like out of the hudreds of perks currently available, no one is running Appraisal. Theres so many unused perks in the game already because everyone wants Ruin, or Devour, or NOED
Not everyone. I use Mad Grit and Pain Resonance on Pig. Is it a good idea to stifle any and all creativity for builds?
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800670#Comment_2800670
Statistically, one survivor will die because their lies is in the blocked off box and they are sorta a dead man walking, because they will be on death timer once the first gen is done. If your key is in the garded box there is nothing you can do to avert this doom, but to wait out your timer or walk through the opened exit gates.
This is the "fun" part of the AFK Pig, ie getting literal kills while doing nothing and being AFK. If RNG is in your favor, you could also get more then one kill, if you roll extremely well, there might even be a 4K in it. And that's what is sitting wrong with me: bodyblocking one person is bannable, even if the other players could easily proceed the game towards the EGC, while the tactic that will on average kill 1 person automatically, and has a non-zero chance of causing and unavertable 4K, is not such an offense.
I know that this might be a bit of splitting hairs, but BHVR has always been about splitting hairs with their rulings about holding the game hostage, ie if you can proceed the game, no matter how slow and painful, no hostage situation is at hand. That's why this AFK Pig ruling surprised me.
The difference is that the person can't play at all when they're bodyblocked, whereas they very much still can play (and possibly even escape) if the Pig is blocking the box
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2800176#Comment_2800176
But it was also confirmed just yesterday or the day before (by Mandy) that bodyblocking a single character in a way that they can't progress the game, even though the other 3 survivors could do gens and progress to the EGC, would be considered a bannable offense. It was added that you would need to do so for several minutes, not just a short amount of time.
But still, it seems that either a) they decided that the AFK pig is okay or b) this stuff is always decided by stomach feeling of the person who answers the ticket.
In practice I think that they are both pretty similar, ie one survivor can't progress the game due to the killer blocking off their ability to do so by positioning, while the rest of the team can easily finish. So it has a little whiff of arbitrary decision making to allow one while condemning the other of they are so similar; I'll admit though that with AFK Pigs tactic there is a non-zero chance that you could affect more then one survivor, up to a 4K tpk, no matter how unlikely.
They absolutely can progress the game. They will just possibly die in doing so (not if there's only one Survivor being boxblocked, though). Not the same thing.
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I mean, that much was obvious. A stalemate is not the same as holding the game hostage
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Roald Dahl's Matilda
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My biggest regret is not getting the crown for Jeff so I can change my in-game name to Jesus Christ and run around with that map add-on that summons beams of light from the sky.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799324#Comment_2799324
So a few Killers being denied the use of their power is fine? Is that not breaking to you?
If deadhard was a dumpster fire when it was introduced would have people used it? No so it would'nt have mattered if it took 2 years to fix, 99% of survivors wouldnt have used it anyway.
if 4/5 Killers are impacted by this, that's 19% no where near the 80% of Survs who use it. That's why it isn't breaking.
No, it's not. Gamebreaking means it fundamentally ruins the flow of a game in a major or permanent way.
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@Kira4Evr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798328#Comment_2798328
How is it worse? The current Hangman's Trick literally does nothing apart from giving you a noise notification when someone starts to sabo a hook, and that's not that useful. This version actually does something more than give you noise notifications. It's still a bad perk, but it's not useless.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2799083#Comment_2799083
Yea that's true. making them Exposed is probably unnecessary.
Because sabotaging is not something you can reliably predict happening until it is too late to equip the perk, so you're basically just blindly equipping it and hoping for the best. For the vast majority of matches, the perk will just be that first ability, which is worse than current Hangman's Trick.
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Any number of Survivors may get unlucky and find that they are unable to remove the Trap because the Pig is blocking the box they need. If more than one person need the same box and it's being blocked, then at least one of them is guaranteed to die.
Mostly just a trolling tactic.
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This seems even worse than the current Hangman's Trick. Even if they've got four Toolboxes in the lobby, there's no guarantee that they intend to use them to sabotage.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2798216#Comment_2798216
I think you misunderstood number 1 it’s confusing to talk about but basically. Pigs undetectable doesn’t activate until she’s fully crouched and then the TR fades, while Ghostface as soon as you press the button he becomes undetectable instantly and the TR fades. Pig when you press the button the effect doesn’t activate you have to wait for her to crouch then undetectable kicks in and THEN the TR fades. I made it so when you press the button undetectable activates instantly then the TR fades like normal. I made the crouch like Ghostface so its consistent
I don't think that's consistent with how things function. The Undetectable doesn't kick in until the TR disappears completely. As long as it's still fading away, her TR isn't fully gone.
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"1.Make undetectable activate at the same time you start crouching."
I've heard the devs say that the reason they make the TR gradually fade out/in is to make it more convincing that a Pig is leaving the area to bait a Survivor into coming back. Not sure if it's worth it, but there ya go.
"2.Make the Roar sound play at the end of the dash not at the beginning."
Hell yeah.
"3.Ambush will now break pallets."
Ehhh, I do think she needs help with loops (which is sad), but it feels weird to make her Ambush be able to smash up a pallet. Might I suggest letting her jump the pallet while ambushing instead?
"4.Ambush charge time is now .50 seconds down from .75 seconds."
Might need to nerf or change the add-ons that reduce charge time if you do this.
"5.Interlocking Razor and razor wires are basekit."
This is a bit of a tricky one, as I think they suck as add-ons but might be a bit of a problem if made base-kit. It invites scenarios where the Pig finds someone at a Box, said someone lets go to run away, but because a Skill Check coincidentally popped up at the wrong time, now they are essentially able to be one-shotted because of what essentially amounted to RNG.
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Puppet's Tricycle
The Pig Ultra Rare Add-On
- The Auras of all Survivors not caught in a Reverse Bear Trap are revealed to you while a Survivor is searching a Jigsaw Box.
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I also don't believe I have received my shards yet.
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Is BHVR still working on this issue? I also have yet to receive my Bubba shards.
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@jeremycarinio said:
besides, im not actually nerfing her power. i want it to tone down. her aim assistance gives her a good advantage of aiming CORRECTLY. at least give her a benefit of the doubt to use SKILLS TO AIM.
"I'm not actually nerfing her power"
Change your thread title, then.
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@Slickstyles said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2792221#Comment_2792221
I'd rather have other aspects of her kit buffed than having people have to repeatedly deal with her broken mechanic.
Then just change the add-on to a better and less griefable add-on. That's what they did with Amanda's Letter.
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@Slickstyles said:
Easy fix to this problem. Make it so that the key is never in the first and last box. Therefore, if there are 4 boxes, the key would appear in the second/third box that is searched.
Seee my comment on the matter:
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2791704#Comment_2791704
IMO taking away the fourth box hurts Pig badly. If you know you only have to search 3 boxes, you can easily get away with doing gens until the timer starts ticking (or, if you're really paranoid, doing one box and then doing gens until the timer starts).
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@Warcrafter4 said:
I just think that this is just more reasons to rework pig's Reverse Bear Traps(RBT)/boxes to be less RNG dependent but more consistent.
I'd like to see the boxes give out 1/3rd key parts so you'd have to open 3 boxes to get the trap off.
It would make pig's RBT's have a consistent slowdown but would also prevent blocking a single box from ever killing a survivor without having to do the work.
IMO taking away the fourth box hurts Pig badly. If you know you only have to search 3 boxes, you can easily get away with doing gens until the timer starts ticking (or, if you're really paranoid, doing one box and then doing gens until the timer starts).
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2791477#Comment_2791477
Good idea but that would mean every player need to wait until match is over? If you get killed fast and then you have to watch 10min match just for your MMR to adjust?
Could go the Identity V route where the game gives you the results after the game is over even if you left before the game was over.
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@fogdonkey said:
Not sure why are people upset about BT. If you don't hit the unhooked person you don't even notice BT. If you hit the unhooked person, they will have to waste 12 seconds mending.
Maybe the mending could be increased slightly but it has various implications for various killers and their add-ons.
For me, it's endgame. Hit the unhooker and they both get away or hit the unhooked and they both get away. Lose-lose situation.
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@BrotherLove said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2790042#Comment_2790042
Survivors have a 4% chance to Kobe. Pig only gets a 6% chance of pulling this off. The other 94% most pigs won't be able to win. Doesn't seem sad to me. Seems totally fair.
To me, it just means that both this and kobes are dumb.
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@BrotherLove said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789877#Comment_2789877
Because they are paid actors. Script says do a gen they do it. Also the voice on the tape told them to.
That's now how Dead By Daylight works. The reality is that no gens will get done, and the trial continues indefinitely. Which is not Saw at all. :P
@Ecstasy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789851#Comment_2789851
I mean... Amanda's whole deal was making lose-lose situations rather than giving people a chance at all. It's actually kinda perfect and why they picked Amanda for DBD when Jigsaw's personality isn't exactly a good fit.
For the record though:
You're not being "held hostage" because you can't progress the game WITHOUT LOSING. It's not being able to progress a game AT ALL that's a bannable offense. If they want out, they do the gens and die.
Otherwise every successful 3 gen strategy would be hostage holding by definition.
Essentially: if a player can't end the game without DISONNECTING, that's hostage holding. Everything else... ain't.
It's not hostage-holding or a lose-lose; it's a stalemate similar to hatch stalemates before the Killer could close the hatch.
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@BrotherLove said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789851#Comment_2789851
In that case your in luck! I have a copy somewhere ...
"It was then Jon Doe #1 & Jane Doe #2 realized they would have to do a gen and hope the voice on the video tap was the key to salvation. As the gen popped panic ensued and a wild scramble to unlock the bear trap began. It was no holds barred winner takes all. As the team crossed the threshold into the shack all became clear. Amanda was sitting in front of the last box gently caressing John. The author of their redemption turned his sad gaze upon them and stated in a magnanimous manner "don't let this man distract you from the fact that in 1998, The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and plummeted 16 feet through an announcer's table." And they all lived happily ever after because this was just a movie. Jane Doe was happily eaten by a Demogorgon. Jon Doe became a detective and found out what was in the box. Amanda discovered John wasn't the real Jigsaw afterall it was his twin brother and after a passionate romance they continued the great work together. The End".
Why would they do the gen if doing so guarantees their death?
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@BrotherLove said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789846#Comment_2789846
You must have missed the Part where Amanda betrays John =)
I don't remember reading about the part in the movie where both Jigsaw and the Survivors are caught in a game of chicken for an indefinite amount of time.
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@voorheesgt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789831#Comment_2789831
I edited. It does also mean theoretically no survivors could need that specific box. It does make the match seem very saw-esque
If all four keys are in the same Box, then the game is at a complete stalemate. That's not Saw-like at all.
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Sounds like I should be glad I was not on the forums at the time it happened
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@voorheesgt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789822#Comment_2789822
And only 1 box is camped... Leaving 3 survivors to complete gens. It's not taking the game hostage in any way. It's more akin to tunnelling one survivor out. But it's more chance and less personal.
Depends on how many Traps need that one specific box to be freed. Multiple Traps could theoretically need the same box to be freed.
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@Aneurysm said:
You guys are gonna get the addon nerfed aren't ya 😓
Can I instead suggest getting it re-worked into a better add-on?
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@Astral88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2789103#Comment_2789103
I think different here. Quite so often I've noticed tunnelling and camping at the end game as well. Killers should not be rewarded by one of the less possibilities to help survivors to screw them even more over.
Survivors should not have such a massive safety net at the end of the game that can effectively guarantee an escape. I would rather they have better anti-camping/tunneling safeguards in the earlier parts of the game.