StarLost
StarLost
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@Anniehere said:
(Without kills)
I have between 3-4 hooks in most of my games and 1 if the survivors are really good.
I wanted to ask, how many hooks do you usually have when everyone escape?
I play as killer once in a while so I don't know if these numbers are relatively good.
It really depends.
My policy is usually:
- Go hard initially to feel out who I'm up against.
- If I realize that I outclass the survivors, I'll try to 2 hook everyone before killing.
- If our skills are even or I'm outclassed, try to eliminate someone ASAP.
I've had games with 0-1 hooks and games with 11-12 hooks.
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@ThanksForDaily said:
Try not to be misarable, the event is just for a few days. People having fun. Killers and survivors.
Get over it.
This game manages to be both fun and miserable at the same time, and the event sort of enhances this.
That said - people are allowed to have their own opinions on it and provide feedback as per these opinions.
My own opinion is that it's a cute idea, but badly implemented.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688507#Comment_2688507
Oh I'm reveling in it!
You sound like a...nice individual.
Maybe Bubba just misread the event and thought it said 'Bone Chili'.
@MrCalac123 said:
That's how it should be for everyone. Snowmen should NOT be a free health state.
I have to agree. Similarly, some killers should not be able to straight up negate them without giving anyone cosmetics. This wasn't well thought out.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Asian twink cornered in police station by two BWCs
Okay, well done. This got a laugh out of me.
@DemonDaddy said:
Had the opposite when playing killer, survivors kept avoiding them like it was an insta-down.
I'm seeing survivors basically making a beeline to them in chase, so that I have to pop them or leave them (popping giving me a 'miss' cooldown is pretty nasty).
Going to be playing a LOT of Hag and Doctor until this event ends.
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@KateDunson said:
Not having fun? Play Survivor or don't play till event ends, last time we have seen a good event like this was years ago. And it's for people like you that always complain about anything that the devs are scared and lazy to make new events
No, the OP is right.
If this event, say, gave killers an instadown ability after bursting a snowman - survivors would be up in arms and would be pretty annoyed if we told them 'just play killer or don't play until the event ends'.
This event is bizarrely thought out. Certain killers can pop snowmen without giving anyone cosmetics, other killers are completely negated by the damn things and for most it's basically a mini-BT.
A few small tweaks would have made it perfect.
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@Kasamsky said:
"just have fun" - I'm sure survivors do have fun.
Yes the snowmans are hilarious but why was it necessary to give survivors an extra healthstate? I just don't see the reason behind that. Noone would complain if you atleast could injure them or pull them out similar to a locker. You wan't the rewards? risk something. The fact that you can outplay a killer power such as ghostface's just shows us yet again how less they care about the "fun" for killers.
This.
It's difficult to say 'just have fun with it' when the event actively interferes with the flow of a match, generally favoring one side. Like it or lump it, this game is more competitive than 'fun' at the best of times - and if you want to make it more of a chill time then both sides need to be on the same page.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688713#Comment_2688713
Its certainly not a word I was hearing or using prior to Fortnite. I've been trash talking in online games since 2009, and the usual banter was just "n00b," "get good," "mad cuz bad," "outplayed," "tryhard," and all the basic curse words.
"Tryhard" was the closest anyone came to calling someone sweaty, but even that word was used sparingly.
I've been playing Halo CE, Combat Arms, CS:GO, & Overwatch on PC through all the years. I know for a fact people weren't using the term 'sweaty' in Overwatch, and that game is hella sweaty. I never played much COD, but I think we all know much worse words were being thrown around on that game.
I'm not calling you a liar, but 'sweaty' is definitely a newer generation term. Popularized might be the better word choice, because I'd believe some people were saying it before social media helped coin and maintream slang words like crazy.
I heard 'tryhard' a lot, but that's because I mostly come from Starcraft and LoL.
My point is that 'sweaty' is, even by your logic, an emergent term. There isn't really enough consensus to declare that it has one set definition or another.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
Please for the love of god stop making it about balance when people are just trying to have a fun time. An event where you walk around at snails speed in a snowman in the entities realm is not to be taken seriously.
If you have that much of an issue balance-wise about snowmen, feel free to use Bubba or STBFL which gives stacks when hitting them.
Please just have fun.
Eh.
It's more that the event was just badly thought out.
Certain killers can negate snowmen without giving survivors cosmetics. Others get completely ruined by snowmen (Ghostface, Twins).
I do like how festive the maps look.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688639#Comment_2688639
You might want to look up the definition of apathy. A person who, as you've defined,
'[plays] in a manner with only a win under consideration, even if this comes at the expense of the fun of the other side'
is apathetic, by the words very definition.
Eh. It's a stretch, as 'playing apathetically' would be more likely to describe someone who doesn't care about their performance moreso than someone who cares too much.
And this is why semantic arguments are pointless.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688529#Comment_2688529
That's very fair.
I had typed out a few different responses explaining my opinion on some things but I deleted them as I realized it's not quite what I wanted to say or at least how I wanted to say it.
At the end of the day I think it's simply a different mindset on the issue. I can understand that it is a problem but I don't understand why it's a problem. I think that's the best way I can word how I feel without going on a long-winded explanation.
Fair enough.
My major consideration aside from my own personal enjoyment of the game (which is definitely effected by toxicity to some degree) is on retention of newer players.
There's a reason, I think, that this has suddenly become a hot-button issue right when the Epic promotion happened. A lot of newcomers came in not expecting people in this game to be as nasty and meanspirited as they can be (considering the hyper-progressive image of BHVR and the out of game community in general) and were put off by it.
This is definitely a concern - much as with LoL back in the day, a toxic community can start to stifle growth as it's hard enough being a newbie without constantly being taunted and belittled for it.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688580#Comment_2688580
That's where I'd say you're looking for a different word than "sweaty."
We don't have to argue semantics, but my concern is that I'm seeing people being belittled, demeaned, and made fun of for putting a reasonable amount of time and energy into something they enjoy.
You're describing apathy, not sweaty.
It is important we keep a distinction between the two, because waging war on vitriolic behavior under the guise of concerted effort is not going to solve the problem. I'm not a linguistics expert, but there isn't even anything remotely sweaty about a killer standing still in front of a hook--it is the least amount of effort a person could put forth.
No, I'm describing 'sweaty'. This is not a word with a fixed dictionary definition or even any sort of consensus. I'd say that in the parlance of these forums, however, there is a difference between playing hard and playing 'sweaty'. Sweaty implies something negative, some sort of stacking of the deck or 'abusive' play (offerings, infinites, exploits etc.).
Apathy is something else entirely. That word has a very fixed definition already.
I don't think I've seen anyone demeaned for what you are describing, because simply being a good player isn't something that anyone credible will demean you for.
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@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688518#Comment_2688518
50 if they're empty, 400 in they have a survivor in it
Idk what people are complaining about, they give bps, cosmetics and they're a fun gimmick for a couple of weeks
People need to stop treating dbd like it's life or death ffs
Yeah, tell that to the survivors I've been playing against today.
It's all well and good to tell one side 'just chill and have fun, don't worry if you get flattened every game' but if the other side isn't on the same page, then it's very difficult to enjoy yourself.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688566#Comment_2688566
He never said that. Like ever. You should check the names over the posts. Seriously. Go check them. My name is cantelope. Whoever said that? I garuntee he is not named cantelope.
Okay, who exactly are we talking about here? Because the person you seem to be referring to with 'he' (the only other person I quoted there) absolutely said those things, you can find them earlier in this thread.
EDIT: Actually, you know what - no. I've already spent way too long getting drawn into this silly derailment. If you want to get back to the discussion at hand then sure, otherwise I'm going to call it.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
...and an argument could be made that Sweaty Killers don't exist, either.
I feel like a boomer--needing to address this fallacy--with the term "sweaty" only circulating in the gamer community for a little under 4 years now.
A "sweaty gamer" is someone who works harder, not smarter; someone who practices a game's skill mechanics to an extreme, but doesn't fully understand how or why they are applied.
A game needs a substantial skill ceiling in order for players to be provided with an opportunity to "sweat," and the reality is that Dead by Daylight's skill ceiling is incredibly low. There is no skill to master as a survivor in DBD (unless you consider looking behind you while running forward a skill), therefore a good survivor is always working smarter, not harder.
DBD is a thinking game, while a game like Fortnite (where the term "sweaty" emerged) is as much a thinking game as it is physical. It can't even be debated that the two are comparable. Fortnite gamers spend hundreds of hours practicing their fundamentals in creative mode, while DBD gamers spend 2-10hrs (at most) learning to moonwalk in tutorial--a skill, by the way, which doesn't make you any better at DBD.
Simply put, someone is not "sweaty" for playing intelligently.
A survivor's sole objective is to escape, so this idea that someone is "sweaty" for trying to complete the objective is ludicrous.
This is the only PvP game community I have ever seen where players are frowned upon for trying to win. Dead by Daylight is a zero-sum game--you are not hip or cool because you rebel against the game's design. You are not better than someone because you escape after memeing all game while they died trying to play the objective.
You are wrong when you call someone sweaty, and you are wrong to believe you stand on any higher ground because you "don't take video games seriously."
People play video games for a variety of different reasons.
If you play video games to relax and destress, and you don't care about the outcome--congrats, I'm happy for you. But some people play video games to win. Some people might just like the thrill of success. Some people might not be finding success in their own life, so they search for it in video games to help their mental health. And some people just enjoy the process of working towards a game's objective or goal.
Whatever their reason may be, a person is perfectly validated for trying to win.
So Please, stop making fun of people for trying.
We'd first have to find a commonly agreed upon definition for 'sweaty'. I don't think your definition works here.
In the context of this game, I'd reckon it would go something like 'playing in a manner with only a win under consideration, even if this comes at the expense of the fun of the other side'.
For example, camping or heavy slugging would probably be the killer version of 'sweaty'. For survivors, playing in a SWF with stacked perks and a Haddonfield/Badham offering would be sweaty. Running to a House of Pain infinite every time you are chased would be 'sweaty'.
That said, semantic arguments are usually pointless, as it's all going to come down to personal definitions.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688480#Comment_2688480
No, you replied to a post that someone typed in direct response to another post and commented on it without understanding what was being commented on in the first place and laid out a heavy handed accusation.
You then proceeded to accuse the person of defending toxicity despite never having done that, going so far as to stick words in their mouth.
"it's...pretty odd to see someone saying 'if you are annoyed by teabagging in a game it's a you problem'"
He never said this or endorsed this. Only that escalating a comparison to such extremes isn't okay. Yet here you putting words in his mouth.
Once again. You either never read anything they typed, or you're a troll. Which one is it.
You're behaviour really seems like a troll who didn't expect me to be so blunt about it. If you want to turn tail that's your choice, but the fact you seem to do everything in your power to ignore the whole. Part where you accused him of something he didn't do really seems like your a troll who probably should have quit while they are ahead.
Sigh.
*Rubs temples*. I think this is quickly becoming a pointless exchange.
He very much said that in other responses earlier in the thread.
"No it's literally as easy as ignoring them. If it bothers you that much then go do something else while this is happening? Or perhaps find a hobby thay doesn't involve interacting with strangers?"
"Because it's laughable. If you can't ignore it like most people you should stop playing PvP games and stick to solo experiences. You clearly can't handle something as weak as a random person pressing a button at you so perhaps it's time to find something you do have enough resilience for."
I could go on.
How is that not exactly what I said? It's just blame shifting. And - yes - when you are defending toxicity by blame shifting, then I'm going to wonder what your motivation is. Are you just being contrarian, or do you have a vested interest?
Anyway, I've wasted enough virtual ink repeating myself endlessly to you so I'm going to go and do something more productive than bang my head against this wall. If you actually want to have a discussion, again, we can - but this is a waste of time.
PS: Don't assume offense on behalf of other people, especially in a thread where you are criticizing people for being 'too soft'. It's...not a good look.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688451#Comment_2688451
I'm 31 now but as a kid smack talk during and after a game was pretty common and all in good fun. After the game everyone would hang out and grab food or what not and just chill. No one would ever hold grudges and it's not like anyone was friends either. It was just neighborhood kids hanging out playing a game.
Maybe growing up with that has made me more numb or less empathetic but I have a hard time understanding why people hold on to the negative emotions from BM. I completely get being annoyed in the first place but when people hold onto it for hours or even longer instead of just letting it go or finding and outlet to make then feel better, that I don't understand.
It's a tough topic though. I don't think one should teach kids to be happy over someones misery by any means but at the same time, it's important for people to learn how to cope with negative emotions as well as negative people/experiences. Should one learn/experience that as a kid or an adult? Personally, I'm happy I experienced it as a kid as trying to learn how to cope with negativity as an adult while having very little experience with it is a rather scary thought to me.
Sorry, I'm getting a bit off topic now and it's delving more into human psychology which I'm hardly qualified to properly talk about.
Ah, see - there's a difference between a bit of banter between mates/people who know each other and doing the same sort of taunting with strangers. It's why I used the pickup game example.
As always, context is king.
Honestly, kids get enough experience dealing with nastiness in the schoolyard as is. A hobby should be something where people can go and relax to get away from the chuds and bullies, not another area where you have to waste mental energy fortifying yourself.
Amusingly enough, my original field is psychology (well, criminology) and I currently work in education. I see a lot of kids really struggling with this stuff - it's not really matter of being 'tough', it's just a very human response to encountering someone being a jerk in a something that you retreat to after a hard day of dealing with jerks.
I must say that it gets under my skin after a while too. This game is frustrating enough sometimes without also being gloated at by a full SWF with 10x your hours played and a Haddonfield offering.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688484#Comment_2688484
If a killer like doctor shocks you or clown throwing his bottle at it (which for some reason breaks it), you don’t get the cosmetic. It has to be an M1
Ah, well that's a silly oversight - among many other silly oversights in this event.
@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688486#Comment_2688486
I’ll quit picking on him after he’s actually fun to play against and isn’t used for camping 90% of the time
Camping is about as fun for the killer as it is for the survivors. Bubba is, unfortunately, sort of reliant on it because a lot of maps just sort of make his kit useless otherwise.
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
It’s fun using the snowmen. Me and my SWF group used them to body block this artist at shack and I busted out in tears when she couldn’t get through to me. 😂
Seriously, don't be a jerk mate.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
Welp good to know that BHVR are keeping the streak going of somehow making something fun annoying and pointless.
not only can killers not hit you or they just use their power on you while you’re in a snowman to deny survivors the cosmetic, or survivors busting out early to deny the killer the cosmetic, Learherface can ######### down you if you’re in a snowman.
Yet another thing to add to the list of why Leatherface is a bullshit killer. What’s the point of giving the killer the slowdown as if they hit you if leatherface and certain other killers can just counter it!
How does that deny you the cosmetic? I'm not sure if I understand here. All you have to do is get hit while in a snowman and both you and the killer get a cosmetic. If this isn't happening, that sounds like a bug.
That said, the snowmen were probably not intended to be a free health-state and they completely negate some killer kits right now (take a look at the recent thread about Twins).
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688465#Comment_2688465
That's the point.
You inserted yourself into an argument that two other people were having. The topic was that certain things are not okay to escalate comparisons to.
You then decided that because someone disagrees with teabagging being compared to serious and violent crimes, he must be defending im game toxicity as you put it.
He then said, repeatedly, that he wasn't and his argument was that the comparison was wrong, not that being a jerk is okay. You then proceeded to ignore that and repeatedly accuse him of it while becoming increasingly passive aggressive about it.
You now want to argue you both read what was typed and are not a troll.
No, I posted on a thread on a public forum expressing my opinion on a topic that I'm quite passionate about currently. The title of the thread has nothing to do with escalation.
My point was that the 'escalation' argument is a red-herring - rather than dealing with the actual topic at hand, he was tone policing.
All you are doing here is ad-homming and it's...sort of pointless.
You also do not seem to have read what I typed.
If you want to talk about this topic further, I'd be happy to. Otherwise, I'm not going to get baited into a silly internet insult fest.
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@Dino7281 said:
Yeah, as Twins didn't have it hard enough...
I just wanted to test how it works and Victor is just useless when survivors hide inside snowman.
Woof. Yeah, this clearly wasn't thought out properly.
It's...no treat for other killers either - survivors will just pop into one mid chase and you either have to take a mandatory 'miss' cooldown (while they use the extra time to run to the next safe loop) or leave them. I think it even breaks bloodlust.
You can also use the snowmen to block hooks.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688435#Comment_2688435
No. He claimed that the escalation of comparisons had become inappropriate and you repeatedly accused him of defending in game toxicity.
Like. You trolled him good so bravo and all but wow. I can't believe you're still dragging this out.
Ah, the internet. Where any opinion you agree with is genius and any opinion you don't agree with can be safely dismissed as trolling.
But okay, look at this from my perspective.
Someone does something objectively negative. Someone else comes in and shifts the blame from that person to the people annoyed at what he did. This can only be construed as defending (or at least being apologist for) person #1's behavior.
What other rational explanation could there be for choosing this hill to die on? There's no benefit that I can see unless person #2 is either toxic themselves, or thinks that it's somehow a positive thing.
What detriment would there be to this person in taking steps to discourage this kind of activity.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688214#Comment_2688214
If you're going to compare DBD to sports, I think a more proper comparison of a normal DBD match would be backyard basketball (or any sport really) with all the neighborhood teens/kids.
It's nice if everyone gets along for sure but to expect no taunting after Jerry sunk a sick 3-pointer for the win is unrealistic. Not that I'm condoning that kind of behavior either but I think it works as a better comparison to DBD then a normal sports match.
I'm not sure what it is like now, but anyone that started gloating and trash talking after they won a pickup game (that they were somehow allowed to bring a full team of ringers to...but that's another discussion) in my day would never have been invited to play again. That's if they didn't get a bit of a smack from someone.
This is actually something that worries me about the current generation growing up. I'm not sure it's healthy to teach kids that you can get enjoyment out of making other people miserable with zero consequences in their hobby of choice. I know that if I caught our son doing this, he'd be spending the rest of the weekend doing yardwork instead of playing videogames.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688385#Comment_2688385
"(Granted, there is some merit to being annoyed at survivors who are being sweaty with the snowmen, but even then, if you take a step back and stop going for the kills it can be some silly amusement.)"
That feels like a double standard to me. Why should only one side have to consider stepping back and not taking things seriously because the other side is attempting to weaponize a holiday gimmick?
Bingo!
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Imagine if the situation was reversed, and they gave the killer a speed boost for popping or gave survivors Exposed or something.
I think that the same 'lul dont take it so srs just a game brah' types would have a very different opinion.
@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688185#Comment_2688185
That's not what the four survivors on the other side seem to want, going off my matches today.
Me neither. Same sweat, same BM at the exit gates - only now they get a pseudo-endurance state for free.
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@Rizzo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688090#Comment_2688090
I'd love to see the slowest chase ever, that reminds me of something I used to do to meme around: I used to plug my controller and slow walk as Killer and slowly chase survivors like that, one day a guy played along and we pulled a super slow chase for a good 2 minutes, was a lot of fun!
My policy right now is 'if you make it to the exit gates in the thing, I'll let you get away'.
I don't think I've seen anyone even attempting this, sadly. Mostly I'm just seeing survivors jump into it to break chase, and a pretty irritating moment when a squad was using them to bodyblock hooks.
@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/299260/so-about-these-snowmen
You literally can't do anything when in the snowman. If you think it's another objective you've lost it.
It...sort of is. Now you have to factor these in when you are chasing someone, as they allow survivors to essentially get a pseudo-endurance if they run to one as they give the killer a 'missed attack' cooldown and, unless I'm mistaken, it also causes the killer to immediately lose bloodlust.
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@Marc_123 said:
Wow... this thread is still going on...
It's...a pretty contentious topic that is getting a lot of play right now, likely due to the current influx of new players from Epic encountering this community for the first time.
@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688242#Comment_2688242
Maybe you should read what he typed. Might clue you on to what he is saying.
I did.
He's trying to make a point that ingame harassment/rudeness isn't the same as IRL harassment/rudeness, and my response is basically 'duh, but I've never claimed that it was'.
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@Tr1nity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688388#Comment_2688388
no. A tier easily.
I'd say he's low A tier, if you don't factor in his terrible, boring addons. The only 'source' I can really refer to here is Otz, who seems to agree with my placement.
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Eh...factoring in addons I'd stick him at 'B'.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688332#Comment_2688332
I guess those have been your matches, I've definitely seen a decrease in sweat in my matches. There have still been sweaty matches but most are just chilling out a bit. Killers seem to be going for 2k and then backing off. Survivors not needing to escape for cosmetics has made them not just focus on escaping as fast is possible like with Anniversary event. Both sides seem to want to enjoy event a little bit in my matches. Maybe I finally have a good MMR where people want to have fun and not either hide entire match or play like they are in a competition.
I think the 2k thing is an increasing tendency among killers to 'manage' their MMR.
I'll play some more matches out, but I'm already seeing more people using the snowmen for a pretty significant advantage moreso than 'having fun'.
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@Preesor said:
This game looks so nice for me when i start it for the first time, but now its strange. Theres maps, you can within a minute after the start repair all generators, or maps where killer got you near him everytime. You know, if your tried to play age of empires 2 you can count everything. But how the f**k you can count crazy man that throws unlimited poisons or axes? If you try to avoid poison by running random killer just will catch up with you, and if you focus on escaping, he hits you. There is not enough jungles to avoid this. Only one good solution is just troll by walking around some object, and let killer to leave you alone. Im start thinking this game is so unbalanced. But im trying to learn, this is my opinion. Friday13th got best balancing, but the game is dead and many others too.
Just make mape little more balanced, nerf moving speed while throwing anything or boost survivors and everything will be super.
I...honestly can't think of a licensed killer above 'B' tier. All of the tier A and S killers are originals.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688291#Comment_2688291
Uff.. who cares.
Don´t play the game serious for these few days. Every Surv escapes.
Maybe kill rate is so low after this, that the algorithm says... hm, maybe killers are to weak :-)
Imagine if this had been reversed, and the killer got a speed boost from popping a snowman, or they left survivors with the Exposed status after interacting?
I have a feeling that the same people going 'lol it's just an game why u taek it so serious relax' would be up in arms.
@Veinslay said:
They could have given the M1 killers a sled to get around the map
See, now there's an idea I could get behind.
@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688290#Comment_2688290
Anniversary event survivors had to work to escape to get their crowns while killers just had to not DC. Halloween killers could camp a gen to prevent survivors from getting any event points and until this year survivors weren't able to sabo event hooks. Blue glyph challenges for survivor make them blind or oblivious and yellow glyph they have to hit rapid fire skill checks (both survivors need to run around to find with only sound to help) meanwhile purple glyph killer just needs to find their glyph that leaves bright trail and shows aura anytime someone is hooked. This is one event that survivors can actually have fun with and not be completely prevented from participating in by killers.
Sigh.
- That's not a mechanical difference.
- Sure, killers can camp any gen, much like survivors can sabo/bodyblock any hook. I'm...not sure what point you are trying to make here. If the event hooks gave Mangled or something, that would be comparable.
- Killers have a lot less free time to chase glyphs than survivors do, and chasing a purple glyph is pretty much giving out free escapes unless you are already winning.
I'm honestly not sure what you think you are arguing here - but I'm not seeing your point. This isn't about how hard it is for either side to get the event bonus, it's about how the event gimmick amounts to a pretty strong extra tool that only benefits one side.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688008#Comment_2688008
That's about right. The cooldown is like if you hit a wall instead of person - slows you down for a second but that's it. Everyone I've seen do this when spectating gets downed few seconds after the snowman hit. If you're playing competitively it's horrible extra few seconds, if you play casual it's fun. I'm enjoying how my matches are - not needing to escape has everyone chilling out instead of seeing who can escape/kill faster.
I'm not seeing anyone playing less sweatily or being less BM when they win.
It's quite frustrating when you don't get that one really important down because someone popped into a snowman, resulting in you getting a 0k.
I think people are just tense because this is another event gimmick that offers benefits to only one side.
@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688169#Comment_2688169
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688170#Comment_2688170
You guy need to laugh and cheer up it's not the end of the world ( not yet). Try to have fun it charismas time
Don't be a buzzkill
Sure. But at the end of the day, this isn't Minecraft.
This is an APvP game with a winner and a loser, and giving survivors yet another defensive tool as an event gimmick without, say, also giving killers something - yeah, people are going to be annoyed.
The pumpkins, for example were well done. Both killers and survivors could benefit from the RNG speed boost.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688284#Comment_2688284
Poor Piggy, just can't get a break...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688291#Comment_2688291
From what I've seen and tested (I had to know), they are not nearly as powerful as that.
I don't think this is a good event at all, but it doesn't create the extremely unbalanced situation that some people claim.
'Extremely unbalanced' is pushing it - but as a killer getting that one crucial down can mean the difference between getting a 3k and getting a 1k. When the entire match ends up pivoting on a silly event gimmick only benefitting one side, that can be frustrating.
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@Xayrlen said:
I know it's a long shot, but hear me out: what if you could grow some skin and learn how to ignore people on the internet?
Seriously, are you gonna blame the whole world if the winter is too cold for your liking?
Jeez, what a whiny generation it is.
It's...sort of amazing how the literal only response to this is blame shifting.
No. If someone is being a jerk, then it is their fault for being a jerk. Not other people's fault for being annoyed at the jerk.
If someone was manufacturing the winter, I'd certainly be giving them a call. But that's a...silly analogy.
You act like there is nothing that could be done to encourage better sportsmanship.
See, some of us work for a living and spend our days dealing with pretty difficult situations and individuals, as well as taking care of our families and all the other little gripes and irritations that wear you out as an adult.
When we come home to finally enjoy our hobby, I don't think that it's beyond reasonableness to expect to enjoy it without the chud patrol showing up to spoil things.
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@GeneralV said:
Imagine complaining about a small and unnecessarily goofy prop.
It's more that it can be used as a pretty powerful pseudo-endurance effect that can be pretty rough on certain killers.
It's a really cute idea, but woof - once more players realize how to use these as a defensive tool, it's going to be ugly.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2686723#Comment_2686723
Honestly I don't see any worth on the perk beyond 2 or 3 stacks anyway.
The exit gates opening time is pretty nice if you're running NWO, but I've only reached 4 stacks once before and that was a game I was already winning handily.
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@ManOMaker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2688214#Comment_2688214
I totally agree and understand. But yet again, the very specific situation of bming at the exit gates by survivors should be a situation people care about less.
I totally get the analogy (pretty good one btw) and I know that stuff like that could totally get people frustrated. But, I would think it would be in the best interest of everyone except the people doing the bm if we just stop caring about it and delt with it in the best way for us not to be upset about it, in my case: pushing the survivors out.
Again, if it was the only thing survivors did to be toxic little gremlins then that would be one thing. For me, it's more when it's included in games where people are being jerks in other ways that it gets under my skin.
But let's focus on exit gate BM.
It's nice to say 'well, just don't let it bother you' - which is a fine sentiment, but that's...not how human beings work. When we encounter a cue, we feel something. We can certainly control what we do - for example, if my wife finds a gigantic spider behind a clock she's probably going to get a fright, but she's not going to pitch the clock across the room. She can control her actions, but can't stop what is known as an arachnid response.
People understand that BMing at the exit gates does have an effect on people - which is why they do it.
The other issue is that it leaves people in just a worse frame of mind after a game - which generally makes them more likely to treat their next groups in a less friendly manner.
Toxicity always propagates outwards.
As I've said in other threads, it's not even that hard to reduce. LoL had such issues with toxicity that it was strangling new player retention - but once they added their Tribunal system, within a few months things were so much better.
The vast majority of toxic players completely reformed after a simple 'you've been getting reported a lot, please keep an eye on your behavior and read the Summoner Code again' warning.
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@lordfart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685286#Comment_2685286
Uh it's not semantic nitpicking since my entire argument is contingent on there being a stark difference between crappy sportsmanship and abuse. Not really sure why you linked me to whataboutism considering I never once accused that person of hypocrisy? They asserted that tea bagging is harassment, I outlined why I disagree with that by alluding to my anecdotal experience with real harassment. That's not whataboutism lol
Except that the issue being discussed isn't a semantic one. It's about videogame toxicity. Different words have different definitions in different contexts - and 'harassment' in a videogame might not perfectly fit with 'harassment' IRL. That doesn't mean it's not something worth trying to reduce.
And yes - it's whataboutism. You're raising a different issue (IRL harassment) rather than discussing what everyone else is. Whataboutism isn't necessarily about hypocrisy (and if you want to be technical, pointing out hypocrisy isn't whataboutism unless it's disingenuous - see below), and I was tired of saying 'red herring'.
@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685502#Comment_2685502
No, I'm really not.
Your argument is that people should just be civil and polite, but you are constantly attempted to chip away at people emotionally to get them to agree with you or became emotionally unstable.
Otherwise know as manipulation. It's also why you keep defending doing it.
That's why you keep brushing it aside. It's why no matter how many times I say I'm not defending anything you keep saying I do. Your goal is to make me emotionally unstable so I will agree with you or leave. I never once said your last paragraph because I don't believe in it. Yet here you are, again, openly accusing me of saying something I didn't, all to get an emotional reaction from me. It's why you also used the word triggered. Your goal with these words is to attack me emotionally, to harm my ego.
This is why you're a hypocrite at best and a troll at worst.
I never once said being harassed is a you problem, I said making any comparison to racism and ######### is wrong and people need to stop doing it. You are the one who keeps insisting otherwise.
And this is more the sort of whataboutism you are referring to. Note how nothing I said is being addressed, and instead he's trying to turn it around.
What is interesting is how someone did a complete 180 from defending ingame toxicity to accusing me of...I don't even know. Making him feel guilty?
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@ManOMaker said:
Now before you assume anything, I do not bm at exit gates. I never have, never will. It’s a waste of my time and I’d rather just get on to my next game.
But even so, I’ve seen countless amounts of complaint after complaint of people crying about toxic survivors tbagging and flashlight clicking in the exits during endgame. I do not care that so many survivors do this, I just care about the people complaining about it!
Why Should You Care? Why get mad at these individuals who are only doing this because it’s funny to them? There is nothing to get yourself worked up over. Just please, just do this thing:
PUSH THEM OUT!!! This is the easiest way to end the bming and get on with your life. Sure, you can farm your power or just ignore them and break pallets and doors, and by all means, go do that. But just pushing them out of the dang gate should always be your first thought. It’s what I do every time any survivor is still in the exit, wether they are being toxic or not.
The only things that happen because of this are good things:
- You can get an extra hit or use your power once more.
- Maybe they don’t leave and now you have a free hook.
- (This is the most important one) THE GAME ENDS.
So please, everyone just shut up about toxic survivors in the exits and just move on with your life. Thank you.
Let me see if I can explain.
When you play a sports match against someone, you both shake hands at the end. For the winner, this is an indication of your respect for the other team - and similarly, refusing to shake hands or flipping the other side the bird is being a gloating butt.
Apply this logic to a hard-fought game of DbD and the same logic applies.
The difference is that if you did that in a sports match, you'd be benched.
In DbD, people will defend it like it's...well, something worth defending - usually by shifting the blame.
This game can be very frustrating for killers at times, and if teabagging was the only way survivors were toxic that would be one thing...
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@Exxodus21 said:
Why are your worrying about winning during an event?
Because...survivors don't seem to be playing any less sweatily and this is a game about winning and losing?
If people want to chill and meme with me, that's one thing - but everyone today seems to be playing to win.
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@scenekiller said:
Heaven forbid we all have a chill event and a fun time instead of being ultra sweatlords 24/7
I can’t stand this community sometimes lol
If it gave a fun advantage to both survivor and killer, that would be fun.
This is only fun for one side.
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@DeadByStreetlight said:
Do you think the there would be less camping and tunneling with DS and Pop as Basekit?
Maybe we would also see more fun perks?
Eh...no.
Tunneling is just how killers play. It's a nothing-term in it's current usage.
Rule of 3: If three survivors remain when 3 gens are finished, the killer generally wins unless they make a huge mistake. If there are 4 survivors at 3 gens done, the survivors generally win unless they make a huge mistake.
If you set about 2 hooking everyone before killing them, you are either going to be 4-outed and teabagged all the way to the gates or you were mismatched.
DS is already essentially baseline, as the potential for DS causes killers to have to play around it as if it was there.
To my mind, 'tunneling' only refers to trying to down a survivor directly after they are unhooked as this is the only place where it can feel like a survivor has no way to escape.
If you want to 'fix' tunneling, baseline BT would probably be the better solution.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685562#Comment_2685562
Missing consequences. That is the point.
You could say our parents educated us better :-)
It wasn't necessarily parental discipline (although that's a part of it - I have a ton of issues with modern 'touchy-feely' parenting and discipline). It's more the fact that society and the 'social contract' has never caught up to the internet.
This was fine 20 years ago, when gaming was still pretty niche and you'd still generally be out and about in the world, getting jostled around by the Brownian Motion of society at large and learning that being a gigantic smelly dingus is likely to get you into trouble.
Now - so many kids spend the entirety of their free time playing online games and this definitely sets them up for failure and maladjustment, especially when those games teach them that they can act obnoxious without suffering any negative results because of this.
And I say this as a massive gamer.
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@MikeyBoi said:
Another nice thing about plaything is survivors have to actively seek out the totem rather then doing the main objective.
Yeah. Pre Artist patch, I was using Plaything+Retribution on almost every non-stealth killer as it provided a ton of 'passive pressure' - survivors don't like being Oblivious and so have to go and hunt for the totem.
The main problem I found was that coordinated groups, even at my intermediate-ish MMR could just ignore the totems and rely on coms or game sense and then I was basically down two perk slots.
I'm finding that 'passive regression' - stuff that damages gens while I just do my thing works like a charm now. Surge+PR on Hag, Cenobite, Doctor and Ghostface is incredibly consistent, with the exception of the occasional match where I get pants s-hook spawns.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685504#Comment_2685504
A lot of jerks in the world. WIll probably never change. And again i come to lack of sportsmanship nowadays. If you win you don´t need to make fun of the loser on top.
In real sports you are considered an absolute douchebag doing stuff like that...
I think a lot of it is generational. It's something that a lot of faculty members complain about, especially those of us who've been teaching for a very long time.
Kids growing up with online gaming get conditioned into negative behavior patterns/apathy by the ability to act like a jerk to people without any consequences. It's...something that society is going to have to deal with eventually - but that's a much bigger discussion.
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@ManOMaker said:
Who is it?
Why did you choose them?
How many hours d you think you have with them?
What percentile of killer do you think you are with that kller?
I've got two.
- Hag
- She's small, has a tiny terror radius and can work around some very difficult maps. Plus she's rare.
- Maybe 75 or so.
- High-Intermediate
- Demogorgon
- A great mix of traversal, mobility, information and stealth. Some awesome addons. Also rare.
- Maybe 75 or so.
- Intermediate to High-Intermediate.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685274#Comment_2685274
Yeah. Been using Pentimento, plaything,ruin and BBQ. Ruin seem to get cleansed 80% of the time instead of getting blessed so that's one stack for the most part. I don't recommend Ruin if you're not a mobility killer though.
I've tried Penti+Plaything+Retribution, it's pretty good on 'power' killers but it also has a tendency to fall apart the second a group just starts booning every totem, negating the entire build.
I've had a lot more consistency with PR+Surge on M1 killers and Pop+PR on M2 killers.
@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685263#Comment_2685263
Yeah they did as far as I'm aware.
Don't worry most SWF aren't even navy seals with perfect communication. They'll still cleanse it if you're just applying mad pressure someone is just going to give in and if they're blessing that's 24 seconds of someone not doing anything you can also go to where that hex got blessed and just hook him again lmao. +1 if you step on it front of his face and slap him on the hook and plaything takes over again.
Sure. But it's the SWFs that worry me, because I can usually do pretty well against less coordinated groups with a wide variety of perks. When I'm making a build, I generally want it to be effective in the matches where I need every edge I can get.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685334#Comment_2685334
My argument is that using racism and ######### as examples is wrong since they are absolutely different things than being rude.
Your counter was to insist I am defending being rude or a jerk because I recognize there is a massive difference between being a hateful racist and being immature.
You, unhappy that I am not arguing that it's okay to be a jerk, repeatedly say I am because it validates your righteous indignation.
You are now, and have been, attempting to attack people emotionally in an attempt to make them agree with you out of fear of social shame. "Sigh" has and always has stood to be condescending. You know this, that's why your trying to defend it. You don't want to be held accountable for your behaviour. Crazy considering the topic huh? There is literally no other point to le Sigh at people.
The only reason for comparing an action to racism or ######### is to force a correlation between disagreement with you and agreement with those actions. There is no other reason to use it. People have been able to discuss this topic just fine without acting that way. Yet you are defending it. Which by your own statements, means that you frequently correlate anyone who disagrees with you with agreeing with racism.
Yes. I'm saying that this argument is a red herring. That's my exact point.
Nobody is arguing qualitative equivalency. That's what you are doing, and it's either an intentional or unintentional derailing of the argument. Ie. A red herring.
They are arguing that both of these things come from a similar place - a desire to extract enjoyment from making other people miserable, and this sort of behavior spoils the experience when it creeps into your hobby. That's the entirety of the point being made. Everything else is being added by you.
Here, again, you are derailing the argument. 'Sigh' is a common shorthand to express exasperation in an online discussion. It's not an attempt to 'socially shame' anyone (wut) or be condescending. You are attempting to twist this into some sort of personal slight to - again - derail the discussion at hand.
That said (let's assume your perspective, which I still maintain is wrong); we aren't in a match here - we are having a discussion on a forum. Different standards of behavior apply.
Again, people aren't trying to say 'teabagging someone in a videogame is the same as being a bigot'. That is a meaning that you've taken, and ran with. People are applying the 'man up or get off the internet' logic to other examples of bad behavior to demonstrate the problems with that logic.
Finally, as an aside - it's...pretty odd to see someone saying 'if you are annoyed by teabagging in a game it's a you problem' and then saying 'I'm being triggered by the word 'sigh'. You can't have it both ways.
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@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685286#Comment_2685286
At this point t the only way to get you to read what I type is by mimicking you, otherwise you can't seem to get past the first sentence. What else am I supposed to do?
Also, sighing? Again? You realize that is being hypocritical right? You are literally betraying your own arguments by doing that. I mean, I realize you've stopped reading by now because what I am typing doesn't look like your own statements but come on at least try to stick to your own moral code.
I read what you typed and I gave my counter.
All you've been doing is essentially strawmanning/red herring-ing people's arguments - generally by shifting the focus of the argument to semantics (in a sort of whatabouty way). Nobody is saying that teabagging is the same as yelling slurs at someone - they are just giving examples of negative behavior that are difficult to completely prevent but are worth disincentivizing. In both cases, someone is extracting entertainment by spoiling another persons experience.
Rather than responding to it, you just made a bad attempt at parody.
And...no, expressing exasperation on a forum isn't BM. Nowhere in my 'code' (which I'd say is pretty much just the standard 'social contract' stuff) does it say that you can't get exasperated or point out fallacies.
If the game had a 'dammit' or 'frustration' emote, that would be the equivalent.
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@lordfart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2682941#Comment_2682941
Nah mate, if you don't understand how to differentiate between rudeness and harassment, you're the one who cant be helped lol
When you have to resort to semantic nitpicking in an argument, you've probably already lost.
@cantelope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684074#Comment_2684074
I find being told I am strawmanning offensive. You are clearly acting in a deliberately nasty manner for your own amusement. That's just the long and short of it.
Ditto when you resort to puerile copycatting.
@Sonzaishinai said:
T-bagging can be incredebilly frustrating and humiliating. I agree with that.
Thing is that it's in human nature to cause eachother suffering. Especially if they can do it anonymously.
There is no escaping this and there is nothing you can do to stop it. We are just wired this way.
We need to set boundaries for what's right and what's wrong to still be able to survive but you need to build up some mental fortitude. You can't fully stop people from hurting eachother.
If t-bagging really triggers you so much you need to find a way to process and deal with it. Cause you will have a mental breakdown if something actual serious happens.
Much like having to eat healthier if your immune system is failing. Diseases won't hold back if you are struggling with your health. The natural toxic human behaviour won't either. So you need to find a way to shield yourself from that danger. Cause it won't go away on it's own
Fatalism is mostly just another word for apathy. There are plenty of ways to discourage this, or to encourage more positive behavior - and other games have managed some pretty amazing turnarounds in this regard.
'Mental fortitude' doesn't work the same way you think it does. That's mostly about being able to control your actions no matter what you are feeling. Being able to struggle on and continue to do your job despite being massively depressed and the like.
Controlling feelings isn't really possible. That's not how human beings operate on a neurological level.
@lordfart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684641#Comment_2684641
As someone who has often been on the receiving end of harassment and racial abuse both irl online, yes in-game rudeness in the form of innocuous character movements is a million times nicer than being maliciously and personally attacked. If this is the hill you're gonna die on so be it, but tea bagging is not and will never be considered egregious enough an action to be a bannable offence.
TL;DR Unsportsmanlike conduct =/= abuse & harassment.
Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument.[1][2][3]Sigh.
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2684074#Comment_2684074
I'm 49, didn't figure there were many people even close to my age playing this game. lol. I've been seeing t-bagging since BF2 and Halo.
Anyway, I really think this game with be better off giving Survivors and Killers taunts, somewhat similar to League of Legends. If there are more ways to BM, then BMing has less meaning.
Most of my online gaming was on PC, with the first online games (outside of Lans) being Starcraft 1 and Diablo 2 on our terrible dial-up connection.
And no, I don't think the answer to toxicity is more toxicity. Fighting fire with fire is an easy way to burn the entire house down.
@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2685050#Comment_2685050
Same principle as flipping someone off in El sports, only that the offender there gets some form of penalty which is absent in video games thanks to online anonymity.
Old people like us still got taught some manners, see the similarities and think that such rude behaviour should not be condoned and instead of telling the offended to "deal with it", we would love it if the offender would get some consequences for their (however subjective significant) actions.
Also i would call people that taunt behind pallets or in the exit cowards. They can only show balls if they feel save, behind a pallet, at the exit line or in general behind an online alias.
I'm not sure if a penalty is the answer here - I'd rather see the carrot than the stick. Some system to encourage better sportsmanship maybe.
@burt0r said:
But damn i see like only 4-5 people in this thread that seem to have had an upbringing with getting taught some manners and stick to them even hidden behind an online alias.
Way too many people let themselves go once consequences are of the table thanks to online anonymity.
Edit: oh and also i hope that none of the people that say "deal with it/ignore it/grow thicker skin" get ever offended by hitting on hook, camping,tunneling or slugging. 2 of those even hold in game efficiency.
It's probably because my primary fields are psychology and education, and I've seen a lot of young people who play a ton of online games getting conditioned into thinking that antisocial behavior is somehow acceptable if you can do it anonymously and they really need this as an outlet for their own negative feelings, or who are struggling because their hobby of choice is full of jerks.